Understood, Jason. I became familiar with this digital universe
concept, first, through Hans Moravec, in Mind Children. I wonder how
possible it is to discover that we are part of an ancestor simulation?
-----Original Message-----
From: meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 25, 2013 10:00 pm
Subject: Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to
function suggests its ...
On 5/25/2013 11:03 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 10:35 AM, <spudboy...@aol.com>
wrote:
Interesting Jason,
My issue with the multi-generated clones created
either by the actions of a multiverse or the actions
of hypercomputers, my concern is that, its such a
waste (in my opinion) that a Jason who belongs to an
identical Earth, but humans all have elephant tricks
instead of noses. Or a Jason Resch, belonging to a
species that has rectangular crystal panels built in
their stomachs and backs (see thru). I am shooting for
ridiculous incarnations of J. Resch, in order to
illustrate the unlikeliness, of this method of
producing the actual person-thoughts feelings
memories. The memory thing as a blue print, to me,
seems, essential, for resurrection. I could be totally
wrong, but I am merely trying to simplify this for
myself, if nobody else. Thanks, Jason.
Mitch,
Consider a few points: First, roughly 100 billion
humans have ever lived in this history of humans, the life
expectancy of humans over most of that time was 10 years,
so roughly there have been 1 trillion years worth of human
experience. Second, if transhumanism is correct and we
transcend our biological limits we could not only live
much longer but generate experiences at greatly
accelerated rates. It would take the then current
population of people (say it is 10 billion) only 100 years
to generate the same total amount of experience of all
humans going back millions of years. Even if only 10% of
the population, spends only 1% of their time
simulating/experiencing alternate lives or histories, it
would take a mere 100,000 years for most of "human"
experiences to be generated artificially by our
descendents. This ignores the acceleration that is
possible. Electricity flows through wires about a million
times faster than neurotransmitters conduct signals in the
brain. This implies that without any miniaturization,
human thought could be accelerated by about a factor of a
million times, so it could take only a month (rather than
100,000 years) for these accelerated humans spending only
0.1% of their collective time simulating ancestors for the
bulk of human experience to be artificially generated.
Now consider that such a civilization could live for
billions of years. If each post-human experiences a few
thousand or a few million ancestor lives, or alternate
species, etc., then odds quickly become overwhelming that
your current moment of awareness is not explained by that
of some biological being on a physical planet but that of
some advanced being conducting a simulation on some
advanced computational substrate.
Jason
-Mitch
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List
<everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 11:10 am
Subject: Re: That the mind works even after the
brain ceases to function suggests its ...
On Fri, May 17,
2013 at 4:57 PM, <spudboy...@aol.com>
wrote:
So, Jason,by this reasoning, a
sufficiently advanced technology,
then, in indistinguisable from
Resurrection.
If used for such purposes. Even if
technology is not used for the explicit
purpose of resurrection, say it is only
used for exploration purposes, where
simulation is applied to explore other
possibilities of existence and being, a
side effect will be to provide new paths
for the consciousness of the simulated
beings to follow. It is a bit like the
guy who dreamed he was a butterfly. If
it was an completely accurate dream (as
simulation technology could allow), then
the butterfly is given the ability to
"ressurect" to become a human.
Similarly, advanced "omega point"
civilizations or Jupiter brains may
choose to explore potentiality for
consciousness and thus try to experience
the lives of other beings. Such an
intelligence, existing in any physical
universe that provides infinite
energy/infinite computing power has the
ability to experience the life of every
other being anywhere in any universe
(assuming computationalism). If one of
these exists anywhere, the it provides
us the potential to wake up as it, just
as the butterfly has the potential to
wake up as a human. Such a being may
even feel compelled to provide a
pleasant afterlife given all the
suffering that exists in the physical
worlds, although this point is more
contentious.
I mention this because I have
discussed tech resurrection, as,
at least, an intellectual
phenomenon, over at the Kurzweil
forum. There is an enthusiast for
technologically based
resurrection, on the forum, has
produced a moderately, large,
website, that presents this
concept. Most people will say this
in impossible, and who am I to
dispute them? But I still find the
topic interesting, none the less.
That is interesting to me. What is
the website?
My suspicion is that there is
some feature of the universe that
acts as a substrate for all
actions and characteristics and
records it all. I am trying to peg
it down to the Planck length as
sort of a storage cell. The
styllus to read-write could be
anything from photons to
neutrinos, that would write to the
planck length. Who knows if it is
even plausible, but I sort of like
it anyway. I like NDE stuff too,
and try to sort the most cogent
stories from the least cogent.
Whether or not it is recorded or
extractable in this universe is
immaterial. If the universe is
infinitely large or infinitely varied,
we each reappear an infinite number of
times. There are a countably infinite
number of programs, and for any given
level of complexity, there is a finite
number of possible programs shorter than
some length. Any consciousness we
simulate is the consciousness of
something that exists somewhere else in
the infinitely varied/infinitely large
universe, and if the universe is really
this big, then someone else far away
could simulate you perfectly without
having to extract a record of you. Just
running Bruno's UDA for a long enough
time "ressurects" everyone, we are all
contained in that short program.
To which, one is tempted to respond: So what? If there is all this
simulation going on, what reason is there to suppose it is being
done by being anything like us or that the worlds in which the
simulations take place (the "real" ones, if there are any) are
anything like this one. You are simply led back to trying to
discover what are possible worlds, where "possible" can be anything
from "familiar enough I can understand it" to "nomologically
possible" to "not containing contradictions".
Brent
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