On 10 Jul 2013, at 21:23, meekerdb wrote:
On 7/10/2013 2:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:37, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> "atheism" is different in America and in Europa, although I have
realized now that some atheists in America might be similar, but
not Hitchens. Many people confuse agnosticism and atheism.
1) A atheist is someone who dismisses the idea of God, although
some don't have the courage to also dismiss the word G-O-D.
Atheists differ on this. Some indeed dismiss the idea of God, and
dismiss as much Hindhuism and Christianism, Aristotle Gods and
Platonic Gods.
But then they believ in Matter, the "thrid God" of Aristotle. But
they want you to believe it is not a God, and seems unable to
understand that IF everything comes from primitive matter, it does
play the role usually attributed to God. No one has ever seen
primitive matter, nor explain how it proceeds, etc. Primitive
matter is an etraoplation of the SENSES to number relations
inferred from experiences.
That's just your rhetoric, Bruno. Neither you nor anyone else
thinks that primitive matter plays the role usually attributed to
the theist God.
It is not my rethoric, it is a remind that science has not yet (if
ever) decided between Plato and Aristotle, and some scientist confuse
their atheists beliefs with scientific assertion.
No one suggests we worship matter or look to matter for ethical
rules. There are no churches collecting donations for matter.
There are no dogmas of matter written on stone tablets.
Pseudo-religions can take many shapes.
Those unnamed physicists that you keep accusing of holding the
primitivity of matter as dogma conduct research to find something
more primitive and in fact construct theories in which matter is
reduced to abstractions like a ray in a Hilbert space.
That are wonderful discoveries. No problem if they don't use that to
mock attempts to solve the mind-body problem. Which some atheists
scientist do.
2) Christopher Hitchens said "What can be asserted without
evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"
Very good. So we can right at the start dismiss the God "Matter".
There's overwhelming evidence for matter. There's nothing in
physics that requires it to be primitive
Good. So let us search the primitive notion, and I argued that with
comp we can take any Turing complete theory.
or to be worshiped.
OK.
Bruno
Brent
The subsiding of faith might have been foreseeable as soon as the
newly remapped sky left no plausible site for heaven. But people are
good at living with contradictions, just so long as their self-
importance isn't directly insulted.
--- Fredrick Crews, "Saving Us from Darwin"
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