On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:23 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 7/10/2013 2:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> On 09 Jul 2013, at 20:37, John Clark wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>> > "atheism" is different in America and in Europa, although I have
>> > realized now that some atheists in America might be similar, but not
>> > Hitchens. Many people confuse agnosticism and atheism.
> 1) A atheist is someone who dismisses the idea of God, although some don't
> have the courage to also dismiss the word G-O-D.
> Atheists differ on this. Some indeed dismiss the idea of God, and dismiss as
> much Hindhuism and Christianism, Aristotle Gods and Platonic Gods.
> But then they believ in Matter, the "thrid God" of Aristotle. But they want
> you to believe it is not a God, and seems unable to understand that IF
> everything comes from primitive matter, it does play the role usually
> attributed to God. No one has ever seen primitive matter, nor explain how it
> proceeds, etc. Primitive matter is an etraoplation of the SENSES to number
> relations inferred from experiences.
> That's just your rhetoric, Bruno. Neither you nor anyone else thinks that
> primitive matter plays the role usually attributed to the theist God. No
> one suggests we worship matter or look to matter for ethical rules. There
> are no churches collecting donations for matter. There are no dogmas of
> matter written on stone tablets.
Ecologists / Global warming
Vegetarianism / Veganism
Work hard / employment is good
These are all common dogmatic beliefs amongst a certain class of
people who reject traditional religion. I'm not judging: they might
all be true and reasonable. Traditional religion is most certainly not
true nor reasonable. What I am saying is that, you known and I know
that evidence against any of these things would not change the opinion
of most of their proponents. These are dogma attached to organisations
that collect donations and label people who oppose them as heretics.
They _want_ these things to be true. They derive a moral code from
them. There are purification rituals: eat a certain type of food (stay
pure), look down on those who eat at McDonald's or drive a big truck.
They are worshipping matter.
It's materialistic puritanism.
> Those unnamed physicists that you keep
> accusing of holding the primitivity of matter as dogma conduct research to
> find something more primitive and in fact construct theories in which matter
> is reduced to abstractions like a ray in a Hilbert space.
> 2) Christopher Hitchens said "What can be asserted without evidence can also
> be dismissed without evidence"
> Very good. So we can right at the start dismiss the God "Matter".
> There's overwhelming evidence for matter. There's nothing in physics that
> requires it to be primitive or to be worshiped.
> The subsiding of faith might have been foreseeable as soon as the newly
> remapped sky left no plausible site for heaven. But people are good at
> living with contradictions, just so long as their self-importance isn't
> directly insulted.
> --- Fredrick Crews, "Saving Us from Darwin"
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