On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 05:25:32AM +0000, chris peck wrote:
> Hi Russell
> >> Not at all. The UDA does not depend on the MWI at all.
> And I didn't suggest it did. This is exquisite chaos. Assuming none of us are 
> correct then we're rebutting rebuttles we misrepresent of arguments that have 
> been misrepresented.
> I'll paraphrase my point. I think people here that are familiar with the 
> territory do not scrutinize the 'proof' as closely as those who are not. And 
> being familiar with the things being implied by the proof, miss the flaws. 
> They 'leap' over to the pasture without strictly following the path. 
> A case in point:
> >> Step 3 simply implies that an omnisicent third party (ie God) cannot
> know which outcome the duplicated person experiences, because one
> person has become two.
> Some people on the list will nod their heads at that comment and go, 'yep 
> that's correct, that's what step 3 does'. But what you have written contains 
> an obvious flaw. People like me, unfamiliar with the territory, will 
> scrutinize what you've written closely and go 'If that third party is 
> omniscient then there's nothing he shouldn't know'. They'll smell something 
> fishy and go in for a closer look. Of course, you're probably just being 
> slack with language, but nevertheless, the 'doesn't follow' antennae of 
> newbys like me will be buzzing.

Of course. The language is deliberate, and demonstrates that
omniscience is incompatible with comp. It is also incompatible with
the MWI.

> There is a step in Bruno's argument where we say 'yes, Doctor'. It is 
> axiomatic and commits us to the view that I would survive duplication.
> There's another axiom which commits us to assume 'comp' which is to say that 
> I can be digitized at a sufficient 'grain' to retain all aspects of me-ness.

These are both the one axiom. "Yes doctor" is the axiom that I can be
replaced by a digital facsimile, and survive the result, and is one of
three axioms (but the most important) making up COMP.

> So, we look at what you written and go, 
> 1) if only one of the duplications is me, then how can I have survived 
> duplication in the other copy? (violates 'yes, doctor') If the other 
> duplication is not me, why isn't it me? There is nothing really to 
> distinguish either. (violates comp)

The other copy is presumably conscious, and is another "me", but is
not me. The only thing distinguishing the two copies is the indexical
- I am me, the other copy is not.

> 2) If neither of the duplications is me, then clearly I have not survived 
> duplication. (violates 'yes, doctor')


> 3) If both of the duplications are me, then why can't an omniscient observer 
> infer that I have experienced both outcomes? ( => false conclusion)

Only one is me. I don't experience both outcomes. The omniscient
observer, of course, cannot know which one.

> In short, either the conclusion is wrong, or one or both axioms get violated.
> Perhaps what I do wrong here is paying Bruno the respect of taking him at his 
> word?


Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics      hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au

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