2013/10/7 chris peck <chris_peck...@hotmail.com> > Hi Bruno > > > *>> Are you saying that the step 3 would provide a logical reason to say > "no" to the doctor, and thus abandoning comp?* > > I'm saying only the suicidal would expect a 50/50 chance of experiencing > Moscow (or Washington) after teleportation and then say yes to the doctor. > > regards >
It makes no sense, in the comp settings it is 100% sure you'll experience a next moment... the thing is, it's that there is two of you after duplication, both experience something M o W, the 50/50 is a probability expectation before duplication... it has the *exact same sense* as probability in MWI setting... it's the same. Either you should say probability are non sensical in the MWI or if you accept them with the MWI, you should accept them the same way with the comp duplication experience. Quentin > > ------------------------------ > From: marc...@ulb.ac.be > > To: email@example.com > Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name? > Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 10:34:19 +0200 > > > > On 06 Oct 2013, at 22:48, LizR wrote: > > On 7 October 2013 06:48, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > > The M-guy is the H-guy (the M-guy remembers having been the H-guy) > > > The H-guy turns into the M-guy, but they are not identical just as you > are not identical with the Bruno Marchal of yesterday. > > > This is true, but it's also something Bruno has said many times. > > > Thanks for noticing. > > > If comp is correct (to the extent that the mind is a computation, at > least) then this is happening all the time. Heraclitus was right, you > aren't the same person even from one second to the next. I thought that was > partly the point that Bruno's step 3 was making. If comp, then we exist as > steps in a computation, > > > Well we exists at each step, but we are not step. Also, mind is not a > computation, but a mind can be attached to a computation. I know it is > simpler sometimes to abuse a little bit of the language, to be shorter and > get to the point, but those simple nuance have to be taken into account at > some points so it is important to be careful (even more so with > pick-nickers) > > > and hence, at least in a sense, cease to exist and come back into > existence constantly. Hence (if comp) we are at any given moment digital > states can be duplicated, at least in principle, and could also be > duplicated inside a computer (again in theory. The computer MAY have to be > the size of a galaxy, or it may not - however the point is only to show > what is possible in principle. Or is "in principle" itself objectionable?) > > Arguing about which man is which or who thinks what seems a bit pointless. > The question is, do you agree that if consciousness is computation, > > > In fact when you say that consciousness is computation, you identify a 1p > notion with a 3p notion, and this is ... possible only for God: > G* proves (Bp & p) <-> Bp, but no machine can proves this correctly about > herself. > > That is why it is preferable to say that comp postulates only that "my > consciousness" is invariant for a digital physical susbtitution. > > > a duplicator of this sort is at least a theoretical possibility? > > > I think John Clark made clear that he agrees with the theoretical > possibility. he seems only to disagree with the indeterminacy. > Except that even this is not clear, as he agrees that this is > phenomenologically equivalent with a throw of a coin, but then he is > unclear why he does not proceed to step 4. He contradicts himself from post > to post, like saying that such an indeterminacy is so trivial and not deep > enough to proceed (like if understanding a step of a reasoning was a reason > to stop), or that it is nonsense. So is it trivial or is it nonsense? We > still don't know what John Clark is thinking. > > > (I can accept it, despite no-cloning, because the multiverse itself is > apparently doing it constantly.) > > > Yes, without Everett, I would not have dared to explain that the physical > reality emerges from the many dreams by (relative) numbers. > People accepting the consistency of Everett and stopping at step 3 are > very rare. I know only one: Clark. > > Bruno > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.