2013/10/17 chris peck <chris_peck...@hotmail.com>

> Hi jason
>
>
> *>>I think in that last sentence you misuse the term subjective.  *
>
> In what way?
>
> Also, in what way could uncertainty be anything other than subjective?
> Have you ever seen an rock quivering in doubt? Certainty/uncertainty are
> properties of 1-p experiences and can't be anything but.
>
>
> *>>I refer you to the Everett quote above where he says the usual QM
> probabilities arise in the subjective views, not expectations of 100%.*
>
> Are you going to show an error of reasoning or are you going to point to a
> dead physicist?
>
> I see your reference and raise you a reference back to section 4.1 of
>
> http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0312136
>
>
> *>> There are multiple experiencers, each having possibly different
> experiences. For some class of those experiencers you can attach the label
> "chris peck". This allows you to say: "chris peck experiences all outcomes"
> but that does not imply each experiencer experiences all experiences, each
> experiencer has only one experience. The subjective first person view, of
> what any experiencer can claim to experience, is a single outcome.  The
> experiences are fractured and distinct because there is no communication
> between the decohered worlds. *
>
> ISTM that you're missing the point of my argument. You don't seem to get
> that it is very well understood that there is only one stream of experience
> per 'I'. The trouble is that in step 3 these 'I's get duplicated from one
> 'I' to two 'I's AND I am obliged axiomatically to assume my 'I'ness
> survives in both duplicates.
>
> So, when asked what will I experience ... and remember, there is only one
> 'I' at this point ... how can I answer 'either or' without violating this
> axiom I am obliged to accept? Alternatively, perhaps neither of the future
> 'I's are this earlier 'I'. In which case, I am forced to predict I will
> experience nothing and again that violates the axiom. The only choice I can
> make here is to predict this single 'I' will experience each outcome once
> duplicated. This is the only prediction I can make which doesn't violate
> the survival axiom I am bound to.
>
>
> *>> In any event, you have at least seen how the appearance of subjective
> randomness can appear through duplication of continuation paths, which  is
> enough to continue to step 4 in the UDA.*
>
> On the contrary, Jason, I find the concept of subjective uncertainty
> extremely unlikely in both MWI and COMP and find the 50/50 prediction
> particularly a little bit silly.
>
>
So, if you have to predict if you'll get spin up or down, you'll predict
100% seeing sping up and 100% seeing spin down ? And so, that proves your
theory is wrong (MWI true or not)... no need to go further.

Quentin


> Nevertheless, I am not Clark, and have already raced ahead. I find myself
> tracking dropped pens through UD*, wallowing in a morass of an unseemly
> dream argument and furrowing my brow over strange interpretations of modal
> logic. Im not sure what to make of any of it but Im certain Bruno is happy
> to have you on board.
>
> regards.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 11:36:06 +1300
>
> Subject: Re: For John Clark
> From: lizj...@gmail.com
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
>
>
> On 17 October 2013 09:49, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 12:48 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> And I don't understand the difference between "first person uncertainty"
> and plain old fashioned uncertainty.
>
> The difference arises when you are the system which is behaving
> probablistically. Presumably a sentient dice (or die*) would feel the same
> way.
>
> * "Take the dice or die!" as my son once said while playing Monopoly. He
> was just being pedantic but it got my attention.
>
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