2013/10/17 John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>

> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>  >> And I don't understand the difference between "first person
>>> uncertainty" and plain old fashioned uncertainty.
>>>
>>
>> > The difference is that from 3rd POV it is deterministic.
>>
>
> As I've said many times, being deterministic and being predictable is NOT
> the same thing.
>

There is not *uncertainty* from the 3rd POV... nothing, zip, nada (both
event happen) and it is fully deterministic.

There is uncertainty from the 1st POV, and it is random.


> Even if we restrict ourselves to just Newtonian physics something can be
> 100% deterministic and still be 100% unpredictable even in theory.  Even
> with all the information in the world sometimes the only way to know what
> something will do is watch it an see because by the time you've finished
> the calculation about what it will do it will have already done it.
>
> > POV plays a role.
>>
>
> It's not exactly a grand new discovery that point of view can play a role.
>
> > So as I said to you before, be consistent and reject MWI. If you accept
>> assigning a probability of seeing spin up/down before measuring, you should
>> accept the same for Bruno's thought experiment, or you must reject both
>>
>
> I have absolutely no objection to assigning probability when it is
> appropriate to do so, but I do object to using probability to assign
> identity, because predictions, both good ones and bad, have nothing to do
> with a feeling of self.
>
> > or look like a fool.
>>
>
> In Bruno's thought experiment [YOU] walk into a duplicating chamber and
> Bruno asks after the duplication, that is to say after you has been
> duplicated, what is the probability that [YOU] will see this or that. When
> John Clark asks "who is you?" Bruno responds that he could no more answer
> that question than he could square a circle.  But even though Bruno admits
> that he doesn't know what he means when he says [YOU] he still demands to
> know what [YOU] will see. So who's the real fool around here?
>

In MWI thought experiment, *you* (John Clark) measure the spin, and before
doing so, *you* ask *yourself* what is the probability that *you* will see
spin up... and John Clark says 50%... somehow John Clark will not ask who
is *you* and proceed unlike with Bruno's thought experiment beside being
the same thing, John Clark is thus not consistent.

Quentin

>
>   John K Clark
>
>
>
>
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