2013/10/18 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>

>  On 10/18/2013 10:48 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
>
>
>
> 2013/10/18 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
>
>>  On 10/18/2013 12:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>>
>>  On 18 Oct 2013, at 01:23, meekerdb wrote:
>>
>>  On 10/16/2013 11:55 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
>>
>>  I see your reference and raise you a reference back to section 4.1 of
>>>
>>> http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0312136
>>>
>>
>>  From the paper:
>>
>> "What of the crucial question: should Alice1 feel uncertain? Why, Alice1
>> is a
>> good PI-reductionist Everettian, and she has followed what we’ve said so
>> far. So
>> she1 knows that she1 will see spin-up, and that she1 will see spin-down.
>> There
>> is nothing left for her to be uncertain about.
>> What (to address Saunders’ question) should Alice1 expect to see? Here I
>> invoke the following premise: whatever she1 knows she1 will see, she1
>> should
>> expect (with certainty!) to see. So, she1 should (with certainty) expect
>> to see
>> spin-up, and she1 should (with certainty) expect to see spin-down. (Not
>> that
>> she1 should expect to see both: she1 should expect to see each.)"
>>
>>
>> But this is where the basis problem comes in.   Why is the experience
>> classical?
>>
>>
>>  Probably because our substitution level is above (or equal) to the
>> "QM-level" (defined by the Heisenberg uncertainty)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Why doesn't Alice simply experience the superposition?
>>
>>
>>  She could in case she has a quantum brain (quantum computer brain for
>> example) so that she can exploit some Fourier transforms of the thought
>> process in the all the terms of the superposition. But you have defended
>> often Tegmark's argument that the brain is classical, and so she can
>> experience only each branch, for the same reason that the WM-duplicated
>> candidate can experience only Washington xor Moscow.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Yes, but now you're relying on physics to explain why experiences are
>> classical - but people keep proposing that experiences or computation are
>> fundamental and that physics is to be explained in terms them.  In that
>> case you can't appeal to the physics to say why the experiences are
>> classical.
>>
>
>  Well a computation is "classical"... it's not a superposition of
> something... But as we don't know currently how consciousness arises from
> computation (nor if it can arises from it), it's premature to ask for an
> answer like you'd like. The point of Bruno, is not that consciousness is a
> computation only that if it is (turing emulable) then physics as to be
> derived from computation alone...
>
>
> I don't buy that argument yet either.  It's not clear to me that
> counterfactuals can be handled as Bruno and Maudlin propose.
>
>
>
>   and no Bruno doesn't have the complete description how it is done...
> only that up to now, the fact that it shows that there must be a
> multiplicity (huge) of "dreams" is compatible with MWI...
>
>
> "There must be" IF is his theory is right.  But then you can't cite MWI or
> classicality as support for his theory - it's circular support.
>

I don't use it in support of his theory or does he... only that if it was
not compatible with MWI, it would have been shown false, so being
compatible with MWI does not refute it.... it certainly does not support it
of course.


>
>
>   but he does not know how consciousness arises, how physics, why an
> electron has this mass and no other and so on. He has just shown that if
> computationalism is true, then physics has to emerge from computation
> alone,
>
>
> He's made an argument.  I don't think he's shown it.
>

Well if the argument is without error, and I think it is, computationalism
qua computation (where your consciousness is turing emulable by virtue of
the execution of a computation *alone* without any support for a special
kind of physical hardware ==> can run on any machine with the correct
program set up) then I think is conclusion goes through... that doesn't say
anything about computationalism being true, it may well be false, but if it
is, then his conclusion is ok unless you can show a mistake in the argument.

Quentin


>
> Brent
>
>
>   the work left here (huge) is to show how. If one day you should be
> "uploaded" as a computer program, and you still feel as alive as today and
> as yourself, it should be a kind of confirmation that it is indeed the
> case, even if we have not workout the details how physics emerge from
> computation and just worked on how to transfer our consciousness... Well it
> would be for me...
>
> Quentin
>
>
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