On 20 Oct 2013, at 17:29, Craig Weinberg wrote:

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Not at all. the modal logics are entirely determined by the initialaxioms.This is the problem. I do not allow any initial freestanding axioms.

The modal logics are not free, their are derived in arithmetic.

`The initial sensivity (your term) used here (AUDA) is only your`

`understanding of the arithmetical laws of addition and`

`multiplication, (and of the machines, whose existence and activities`

`are derived from that.`

`You can start from sensitivity, but then you are a poet, not a`

`scientist.`

`Poetry is important, but it is not science, and it is bas poetry when`

`it pretend some truth, and denies a respectful attitude toward`

`possible creatures.`

But you are a machine under comp and you CAN believe consistentlythat you are a machine.

`This is ambiguous, and when made precise, leads to not so obvious`

`questions, or simple falsities (I cannot believe consistently that I`

`am consistent).`

Comp is refutable, so more precise questions are open problems.

Proofs have no existence without a conscious prover. Proof isnothing but an expectation of matching one set of experiences toanother.

`We have made progress about things like provability, formal, informal,`

`and computability. You might study this a little bit.`

The relation of arithmetic to qualia is completely fabricated andhas no basis in mathematics as far as I can tell.

`You beg the question. Even if the relation between qualia and`

`arithmetic that I describe as deriving from comp and the classical`

`theory of knowledge is wrong, you have to show that all possible comp`

`theories are wrong.`

I'm not talking about computer science, I'm talking aboutconsciousness, metaphysics, and cosmology.

`You have to address computer science when saying that computers cannot`

`emulate consciousness.`

`But indeed, you seem to just ignore the machines, so you don't gave`

`them any chance.`

I am specifically challenging the assumption that computation orarithmetic is elementary,It is not. Then what are you saying is elementary?

0, s(0), s(s(0)), etc.

`I meant that computation are not elementary, or assumed. It is defined`

`from 0, s(0), ... and the laws of + and *.`

Then you have to provide just one counter-example.I am the counter-example. Color is the counter example. Flavor,sound, feeling, etc.

`You beg the question. Comp already explain why the 1p says so, but`

`that is an (machine's) opinion/feeling.`

`You are not a counter-example to comp. On the contrary you illustrate`

`very well the comp prediction that comp is hard to believe by machines`

`introspecting themselves a little bit.`

`Comp, like the GĂ¶delian sentences, says something like "you can't`

`believe in me". That is why it asks for an act of faith.`

Not true. There are no elementary axioms. Axioms are rules.

`Logicians distinguish axioms (which are formula, or sentences), and`

`rules, which are operations on formulas leading to other formula. It`

`is as different as a number, like 0, and an operation like s (s(x) = x`

`+ 1).`

`I have to go, but I have read the other comment, and either you are`

`not providing any reason to believe that comp is false or inconsistent.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.