On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 5:32 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  On 12/30/2013 2:20 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:45 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>  On 12/30/2013 1:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:57 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>   On 12/30/2013 12:04 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:41 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  On 12/30/2013 11:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:00 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  On 12/30/2013 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  But that's essentially everything, since everything is (presumably)
>>>>> quantum.  But notice the limitation of quantum computers, if it has N
>>>>> qubits it takes 2^N complex numbers to specify its state, BUT you can only
>>>>> retrieve N bits of information from it (c.f. Holevo's theorem).  So it
>>>>> doesn't really act like 2^N parallel computers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  OK, but nobody pretended the contrary.  You can still extract N bits
>>>>> depending on the 2^N results, by doing some Fourier transfrom on all
>>>>> results obtained in "parallel universes". This means that the 2^N
>>>>> computations have to occur in *some* sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  But they pretend that the number 2^N is so large that it cannot
>>>>> exist in whole universe, much less in that little quantum computer and
>>>>> therefore there must be other worlds which contain these enormous number 
>>>>> of
>>>>> bits.  What Holevo's theorem shows is the one can regard all those
>>>>> interference terms as mere calculation fictions in going from N bit inputs
>>>>> to N bit outputs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Can such "calculation fictions" support conciousness?  That's the
>>>> real question.  If they can, then you can't avoid many-worlds (or at least
>>>> many minds).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Why is that "the real question"?  Saying yes to the doctor implies
>>>> that a classical computer can support consciousness.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Because with computationalism, if a quantum computer runs the
>>> computations that support a mind, there would be many resulting conscious
>>> states, and first person views.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Of course that is assuming the very proposition you're arguing.
>>>
>>>
>>  No, I am trying to show that given computationalism, there is nothing
>> "fictional" about these computations. They would have very bit the same
>> power to yield consciousness as the computations of a classical computer.
>>  Do you disagree with this?
>>
>>
>>  I'm not sure what you mean by "power";
>>
>
>  "ability"
>
>
>>  whether it means effectively or potentially?  I don't think
>> consciousness (at least like ours) can occur except in the context of a
>> quasi-classical world.
>>
>
>  Each of the myriad of computations executed in the quantum computer can
> be seen as separate classical computations. I agree classical computation
> is what is behind consciousness, so if quantum computation is the
> superposition of many classical computations,
>
>
> But that's a very questionable assumption.  If it were literally true then
> N qubits could do as much a 2^N classical computers, but they can't.
>

It's not questionable, because it is explained by many-worlds.  When you
measure any of the particles, you get entangled and see only one of its
states (not all the states the particle really carries).


>   The "quantum computations" are not just classical computations being
> done in parallel because they have to interfere to produce an answer.
>

Yes, but I am starting to think you believe quantum computations are more
than mere "fictions", since you keep avoiding the question of whether or
not multiple conscious states might be supported by a quantum computation.

Jason


>
> Brent
>
>
>   and if these classical computations instantiate minds, then the
> emulation of a mind on a quantum computer gives you many different
> conscious states existing at once.
>
>  Our own classical world, is based on the quantum, so really, we don't
> even need to run a brain simulation in a quantum computer (that is already
> what is happening to us today, right now).
>
>
>>  So it depends on whether the computations are sufficient to instantiate
>> such a world.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>   That we can only access N-bits of a mind from any one world is
>>> irrelevant, as all the conscious states exist in the intermediate states,
>>>
>>>
>>>  That's your story and you're sticking to it.
>>>
>>
>>
>>  Do you disagree?
>>
>>
>>  It is certainly relevant that we can only access N-bits of an N-qubit
>> computer.  But what it shows is not certain.
>>
>> Brent
>>   --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Reply via email to