On 30 Dec 2013, at 23:32, meekerdb wrote:

On 12/30/2013 2:20 PM, Jason Resch wrote:



On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:45 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 12/30/2013 1:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote:



On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:57 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 12/30/2013 12:04 PM, Jason Resch wrote:



On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:41 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 12/30/2013 11:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote:



On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:00 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 12/30/2013 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
But that's essentially everything, since everything is (presumably) quantum. But notice the limitation of quantum computers, if it has N qubits it takes 2^N complex numbers to specify its state, BUT you can only retrieve N bits of information from it (c.f. Holevo's theorem). So it doesn't really act like 2^N parallel computers.


OK, but nobody pretended the contrary. You can still extract N bits depending on the 2^N results, by doing some Fourier transfrom on all results obtained in "parallel universes". This means that the 2^N computations have to occur in *some* sense.

But they pretend that the number 2^N is so large that it cannot exist in whole universe, much less in that little quantum computer and therefore there must be other worlds which contain these enormous number of bits. What Holevo's theorem shows is the one can regard all those interference terms as mere calculation fictions in going from N bit inputs to N bit outputs.

Can such "calculation fictions" support conciousness? That's the real question. If they can, then you can't avoid many- worlds (or at least many minds).

Why is that "the real question"? Saying yes to the doctor implies that a classical computer can support consciousness.

Because with computationalism, if a quantum computer runs the computations that support a mind, there would be many resulting conscious states, and first person views.

Of course that is assuming the very proposition you're arguing.


No, I am trying to show that given computationalism, there is nothing "fictional" about these computations. They would have very bit the same power to yield consciousness as the computations of a classical computer. Do you disagree with this?

I'm not sure what you mean by "power";

"ability"

whether it means effectively or potentially? I don't think consciousness (at least like ours) can occur except in the context of a quasi-classical world.

Each of the myriad of computations executed in the quantum computer can be seen as separate classical computations. I agree classical computation is what is behind consciousness, so if quantum computation is the superposition of many classical computations,

But that's a very questionable assumption. If it were literally true then N qubits could do as much a 2^N classical computers, but they can't.

That does not follow. They can't because QM predicts that they can't interact, but the interference needs them to exist, in some physical non fictitious sense. Without adding a selection principle, like a collapse, I don't see why self-aware creature in those branches would lost their consciousness.



The "quantum computations" are not just classical computations being done in parallel because they have to interfere to produce an answer.

So you agree that they are computations in parallel. Then we cannot exploit the results obtained in the parallel world directly, as we would lost the information in the other branch, but by changing the base of the outcome-analyser, we can still exploit some amount of information from the results obtained in *all* other branches (like seeing if they are all equal, or not).

Bruno





Brent

and if these classical computations instantiate minds, then the emulation of a mind on a quantum computer gives you many different conscious states existing at once.

Our own classical world, is based on the quantum, so really, we don't even need to run a brain simulation in a quantum computer (that is already what is happening to us today, right now).

So it depends on whether the computations are sufficient to instantiate such a world.




That we can only access N-bits of a mind from any one world is irrelevant, as all the conscious states exist in the intermediate states,

That's your story and you're sticking to it.


Do you disagree?

It is certainly relevant that we can only access N-bits of an N- qubit computer. But what it shows is not certain.

Brent
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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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