On 5 January 2014 10:10, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  On 1/4/2014 8:47 AM, John Clark wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > According to Wheeler's empirical quantum model, (where the properties
>> of a particle vanish in between observations
>  Yes that's Wheeler's theory, it's the stereotypical non-realistic
> interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, unlike MWI which is realistic. Bell
> didn't use Quantum Mechanics or physics of any sort and yet starting from
> nothing but logic and high school algebra he was able to prove that IF his
> inequality was violated THEN no correct theory can be BOTH realistic AND
> local.
> His inequality also depended on discounting retro-causation and
> hyper-determinism, which Bell considered but rejected as unbelievable.  Now
> both have been seriously proposed: the former by Cramer and Stenger, the
> latter by t'Hooft.

Ahem. The former by Huw Price, too - he was actually in correspondence with
Bell on the topic, and so should at least get an honorary mention. Also,
Cramer's version involves signals travelling through time in both
directions, from what I remember, which makes the whole thing unnecessarily
complicated. The TI doesn't simply say - "hey, look, the laws of physics
are formulated to be time-symmetric, maybe we should bear that in mind!" -
which is basically what Price said to Bell, whereupon Bell agreed - I
assume after doing the maths - that yes, this would be a valid explanation
of how his inequality could be violated without anything non-local

It's also the version which best satisfies Occam, since it adds nothing to
the existing formulation of QM.

Charles has talked to Prof Price about how his idea stacks up with GR. I
think basically his view is that Hawking radiation shows that even
gravitational collapse is in principle time-symmetric.

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