On 05 Jan 2014, at 06:13, John Clark wrote:

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On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

`> His inequality also depended on discounting retro-causation and
``hyper-determinism,
`
If retro-causation exists then things are not local.
> and hyper-determinism

`If things are super-deterministic then things are not realistic.
``Bell assumed realism because he needed to be able to talk about what
``the results of a experiment would have been if different choices
``were made, but if things are super-deterministic then different
``choices could NOT have been made. So Bell assumed realism.
`
> which Bell considered but rejected as unbelievable.

`It doesn't matter what Bell personally thought was believable or
``unbelievable, Bell proved that if realism and locality and high
``school algebra and trigonometry are valid then his inequality can
``never be violated. But experiment showed that Bell's inequality WAS
``violated, therefor at least one of Bell's assumptions is wrong and
``either realism or locality or high school mathematics MUST be wrong.
``And I don't think its high school mathematics.
`

Bell assumes unicity of the outcome of measurement. EPR too.
Bruno

`> Now both have been seriously proposed: the former by Cramer and
``Stenger, the latter by t'Hooft.
`

`All those interpretations are still in the running just as MWI is,
``but theories that are both realistic and local are not.
`
John K Clark
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