On 10 Jan 2014, at 04:13, Edgar L. Owen wrote:

Stephen,

Your error here is assuming the computations take place in a single "wide" physical dimensional space. They don't. They take place in a purely computational space prior to the existence of physical dimensional spacetime. Physical dimensional spacetime is a product of the computations. They don't exist within it. Therefore there is no spacetime separation between computations. They exist in a purely logical space prior to dimensionalization which they compute.

Does this not contradict your statement that the present moment is prior to the computations, as I think you just said?

bruno




Edgar



On Thursday, January 9, 2014 10:06:33 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote:
Dear Edgar,

You wrote: "there is not a single universal processor, there is a single processor CYCLE. All information states are effectively their own processors, so the computational universe consists of myriads of processors, as many as there are information states (more or less). But all these myriads of processors all cycle their computations together in the same present moment, i.e. in the SAME computational space."

As someone deeply involved in studying distributed computation from the inside and the outside, I have to tell you, there is no difference between "a single computer" and "a myriad of processors that all cycle their computations together". That is a difference that does not make a difference. Unless you take concurrency into account (and it does not seem that you do) there is no distiction between a single processor running "the universe as a computation" or a huge number of processors running in parallel as you describe.

The problem is that if the distribution of physical processors is wide enough in space and the processors have different associated velocities in their motions, there is no such a thing as a single frame of simultaneity for them all to be said to be "cycling together in the same present moment". Nope.

Add to that simultaneity problem the problem of resource allocation and one has a real mess! (Forget about the intractability issues...) There seems to be a lot of bad thinking when it comes to what exactly is a computation. Let me try a definition of "computation":

Any transformation of information.




On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote:
Stephen,

There is NO such requirement. See my response to Liz..

Edgar



On Thursday, January 9, 2014 8:45:40 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote:
Dear LizR,

Exactly. That requirement of a single computer is deeply troublesome for me.


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 8:16 PM, LizR <liz...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10 January 2014 14:01, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote:
Stephen,

There is no "single observer that can take in all events...". I never said that and don't believe it.

However there has to be a single universal processor cycling for a computational universe to work. That single universal processor cycle is the present moment P-time. All computations occur simultaneously as these cycles occur. All individual observers, clock times etc. occur and are computed within this actual extant presence of the computational space of reality.

There has to be a single processor computing the state of the universe?!

I know that's possible in principle, what with the C-T thesis and all that, but it's a bit of a limitation to put on your ideas. (Or maybe it has 10^80 cores? :-)


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