On 13 Jan 2014, at 14:17, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Bruno,
No contradiction. As I clearly stated, but which apparently didn't
register, the computations take place in Present Moment P-time which
is NON-dimensional.
Sorry, but I don't understand.
To discuss on this, I need to know what you assume, and what you derive.
The computations compute Clock time which IS dimensional.
Neither this. Sorry. Then notion of computation needs to assume some
order like 0, 1, 2, ...OK?
So you assume (like most) elementary arithmetic. I try to make sense.
May be you might try your theory on the UDA argument. I think that you
have a way out, which is to assume a finite non computable reality.
But I think that your present moment is a form of time-solipsism. Are
you aware of the solution of GR with time loop? Can we share a present
moment with inhabitants there?
Bruno
Edgar
On Friday, January 10, 2014 5:00:36 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 10 Jan 2014, at 04:13, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Stephen,
Your error here is assuming the computations take place in a single
"wide" physical dimensional space. They don't. They take place in a
purely computational space prior to the existence of physical
dimensional spacetime. Physical dimensional spacetime is a product
of the computations. They don't exist within it. Therefore there is
no spacetime separation between computations. They exist in a purely
logical space prior to dimensionalization which they compute.
Does this not contradict your statement that the present moment is
prior to the computations, as I think you just said?
bruno
Edgar
On Thursday, January 9, 2014 10:06:33 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King
wrote:
Dear Edgar,
You wrote: "there is not a single universal processor, there is a
single processor CYCLE. All information states are effectively their
own processors, so the computational universe consists of myriads of
processors, as many as there are information states (more or less).
But all these myriads of processors all cycle their computations
together in the same present moment, i.e. in the SAME computational
space."
As someone deeply involved in studying distributed computation
from the inside and the outside, I have to tell you, there is no
difference between "a single computer" and "a myriad of processors
that all cycle their computations together". That is a difference
that does not make a difference. Unless you take concurrency into
account (and it does not seem that you do) there is no distiction
between a single processor running "the universe as a computation"
or a huge number of processors running in parallel as you describe.
The problem is that if the distribution of physical processors is
wide enough in space and the processors have different associated
velocities in their motions, there is no such a thing as a single
frame of simultaneity for them all to be said to be "cycling
together in the same present moment". Nope.
Add to that simultaneity problem the problem of resource
allocation and one has a real mess! (Forget about the intractability
issues...) There seems to be a lot of bad thinking when it comes to
what exactly is a computation. Let me try a definition of
"computation":
Any transformation of information.
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote:
Stephen,
There is NO such requirement. See my response to Liz..
Edgar
On Thursday, January 9, 2014 8:45:40 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King
wrote:
Dear LizR,
Exactly. That requirement of a single computer is deeply
troublesome for me.
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 8:16 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
On 10 January 2014 14:01, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote:
Stephen,
There is no "single observer that can take in all events...". I
never said that and don't believe it.
However there has to be a single universal processor cycling for a
computational universe to work. That single universal processor
cycle is the present moment P-time. All computations occur
simultaneously as these cycles occur. All individual observers,
clock times etc. occur and are computed within this actual extant
presence of the computational space of reality.
There has to be a single processor computing the state of the
universe?!
I know that's possible in principle, what with the C-T thesis and
all that, but it's a bit of a limitation to put on your ideas. (Or
maybe it has 10^80 cores? :-)
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