> On 5 Nov 2018, at 14:35, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 6:33 AM Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be > <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote: > > > Experience is manifested by information processing. But experience per se > > is not information processing. > > A car is not "fast" but going fast is what a car does. A brain is not a mind > but mind is what a brain does.
That can make sense, except for consciousness, which needs a relation between a brain, and truth. That needed truth needs also to be independent of the brain. > Information processing is not consciousness but consciousness is what > information processing can do. Information processing can “differentiate” consciousness, it cannot create it per se. > As for experience, anything with a memory has that, even the 1946 ENIAC > computer had memory. Not in the first person sense. > > >I accumulate evidence that the more we have information processing ability, > >the less we are conscious. > > No you do not. You may have evidence that you are conscious (evidence that is > available only to you) but you have precisely zero evidence that WE are > conscious. Of course I have evidence that “we” are conscious. I have no proof, but plenty of evidences. If we find on some planet trace of civilisation, war, use of bombs, .. everyone will take that as evidence that some alien has existed there and were conscious. Just your mail here is an evidence (not a proof oc course) that YOU are conscious. > > > Information processing (computation) has been first discovered in > > arithmetic, where there is no matter. > > Discovered where there is no matter? So Alan Turing did not have a brain made > of matter? Alan Turing used his material brain, yes, but that has nothing to do with the fact that he gave a definition of computation which does not require an ontological commitment in matter, and indeed it does not, as exemplified by its definition or any equivalent definition. > > > The fact that the physical reality is Turing-complete explains how we can > > build machine doing it > > Alan Turing described how physical reality can compute anything that can be > computed and he described it in the language of mathematics, the language > best suited for that purpose. Mathematics is a wonderful language but no > language is the thing it describes, no language is physical reality. You confuse often language and what the language described. The mathematical models and realities are quite different from the language used to describe them. > > >Of course to get this, you need a bit more than the UDA step 3 > > A bit less would be preferable to a bit more because step 3 was DUMB. Insulting is not a valid way to argue. Bruno > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org > <mailto:email@example.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.