> On 6 Nov 2018, at 09:52, Philip Thrift <cloudver...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 5:39:42 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>> On 4 Nov 2018, at 14:53, John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 6:23 AM Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com 
>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>> > If experience (Galen Strawson, The Subject of Experience) is the result of 
>> > information (only) processing,
>> If? If information is not the thing that needs processing to produce 
>> intelligence then what is?
>> > then the argument for arithmetical (Platonic) reality holds. 
>> Only if somebody can show how information, or anything else, can be 
>> processed without using matter that obeys the laws of physics.
> Information processing (computation) has been first discovered in arithmetic, 
> where there is no matter. 
> The fact that the physical reality is Turing-complete explains how we can 
> build machine doing it, but unfortunately, if “matter” is taken seriously as 
> primitive, the person itself can no more be attached to any particular body.
> Eventually, it is the very notion of primitive matter, or physicalism, which 
> needs to be abandonned if we assume Mechanism or Computationalism.
> Of course to get this, you need a bit more than the UDA step 3 …
> Please, try to convince someone else to explain what is wrong in the step 3, 
> as you did not succeed in making your point up to now.
>> And, despite the existence of books made of dead trees with black squiggles 
>> made of ink with a high Carbon content pressed onto them, nobody has even 
>> come close to doing that.
> It is born in that way. Study any book in the field. You are confusing 
> everyone on this.
> Bruno 
> "Physics" to me is physics theories written in some language (in 2018, who 
> knows what language it will be in 2118).
> It is a language that can be used to write the Standard Model and Einstein 
> equation(s).
> e.g.
> This version of the Standard Model is written in the Lagrangian form.
> https://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/the-deconstructed-standard-model-equation
> The language and the models written in the language are not the reality 
> itself.
> It is a mistake to use "physical reality" to correspond to material reality. 
> Material reality may not be be Turing computable.

If Mechanism is true, the material reality CANNOT be Turing emulable. It is a 
statistics on a non computable domain. If our bodies are machine, we cannot 
know which machine we are, still less which computations support us. That is 
why physics become a statistics on all relative computations belonging to a non 
computable domain. If mechanism is false, then there is a logical possibility 
that physics became 100% computable, but incomplete, and needing some dualism 
to related that consciousness with the material reality. Yet, if mechanism is 
not computable, there must be a non computable element in physics, and it might 
be that the quantum indeterminacy is enough for that (in which case we might be 
all the same person, just with different context and bodies, and memories).


> - pt
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