> On 18 May 2019, at 00:43, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 5/17/2019 2:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:08 PM John Clark <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 4:54 PM Jason Resch <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> > we need to demonstrate that the elbow isn't consciousness. E.g., it can >> > exhibit reflexes to simuli without involving the brain. >> >> How would that prove anything? What proof is there that a reflexe or any >> other observable behavior has anything to do with consciousness? There is >> none. The hard fact is you must forget about proof and just assume there is >> a link between intelligent behavior and consciousness because the only >> alternative is solipsism. >> >> >> You said consciousness is how information feels to be processed. What if >> that information is only 1 bit (like is my hand being burned or not)? > > First, I don't think that's 1bit. Which hand, where on your hand? How much? > Those are bits in addition to the pain. But as I pointed out earlier, > processing bits can only instantiate consciousness when it is reference to > some values or actions...i.e. within an agent and environment in which he can > act. This is why I find the movie graph argument unconvincing.
I don’t see what the movie graph has to do here. The movie has no consciousness at all, as it does not even do a computation. The movie graph, on the century, illustrate that the consciousness is not in the material handling of what would make something into a computation, but in the logic-arithmetical relation (the counterfactuals) which makes a computation being a computation. You can put as much as the (simulated) environnement in the boolean graph, and this in the movie? The boolean graph will be conscious, but not the movie. We need a reality, like a model of arithmetic, to make genuine the computational step, that is all. If you invoke a special reality like with a special God (Matter or Jesus) to make a computation capable of supporting consciousness, then either that is just magic, or you need to explain what is that matter, and how it does to make your consciousness more real than the arithmetical computation could do. Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7761a68c-ae3d-18e8-54fa-64b3cee8cc63%40verizon.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7761a68c-ae3d-18e8-54fa-64b3cee8cc63%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/4050CE56-AE23-4934-BB43-55CF1F74DB2F%40ulb.ac.be.
