--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <no_reply@> 
> wrote:
> <snip>
> > Related to TM, my view is that when the mind becomes aware,
> > effortless, that the mantra is not there, the intellect says "we
> > should think the mantra" and puts the mind in the mantra room. That
> > is a very small effort of the intellect (maybe).
> <snip>
> > Until there is an understanding / foundational perspective /
> > experience / lifeview that the intellect is functioning in its own
> > domain, by its own rules and does not need "volition" from a "me".
> > (See discussion with trinity some months back). This occurs when an
> > indentity with "being the decison maker" dissolves. 
> > 
> > So from that clearer, more "awakened" perspective, there is not even
> > any effort on the part of the intellect. It -- the intellect -- and
> > its processes, just happen. Just as effortlessly as thoughts arise 
> > in the mind.
> FWIW, I'm not convinced that the intellect functions
> at all in this situation, 

Perhaps "intellect" connates something (perhaps slightly) differnt to
you than to me. I am not referring to grand and deep analysis (shich
also is the domain of the intellect), but rather, something akin to
what a 3-cent micro chip might do, a yes/no monitoring function. To me
"intellect's" functions / processes can be at grand scale or very
mundane scale. 

>on its own or via "volition."

This is an additional quality stacked on the above. If there is
someone who IS the decider, (identifying with decision maker), then
there is volition, IMO, though sometimes it can seem pretty automatic.
In contrast, when there is NO individual entity who IS the decider,
(identifying with decision maker), then there is no volition. It is
clearly automatic.  

Perhaps I could restate the general premise: IF there is effort, it is
when the the intellect decides to go back to the mantra. Or per my
"model", the intellect moves the mind to the mantra room -- and allows
the conditions for the mantra to arise effortlessly. It may seem
automatic, and pavlovian -- due to repeated practice. Or one may
experince a slight volition, a slight effort of the intellect.

> In my own experience, it's more like a Pavlovian-type
> response to the realization that I'm not thinking the
> mantra.
> If the intellect is involved at all, it seems to me, it
> would be in the recognition that one is not thinking the
> mantra (i.e., discrimination between not-mantra and
> mantra). 

Yes its that. And its the decision to go back to the mantra. And this
may appear quite automatic.

>But that doesn't feel volitional either; it
> seems to be invoked automatically in response to the
> ending of a train of thought.

see above.
> I'd be hesitant to suggest, in my case, that this has
> anything to do with a more "awakened" perspective.

It may or may not. The automaticness is not the key distinguishing
factor. Many reptiles, that is just using reptile brain, react to
things "instinctively" -- automatically. As humans, we react to to
many things "by relex" automatically. This does not necessarily
indicate much.

The feature I was referring to is an understanding / foundational
perspective / experience / lifeview / realization that the intellect
is functioning in its own domain, by its own rules and does not need
"volition" from a "me" --- when an indentity with "being the decision
maker" dissolves. In that, the functioning of the intellect is always
known as automatic. In contrast, in the "I am the doer state"
automatic /reflex actions are there sometimes, and sometimes one feels
"I am the doer" -- acting with volition.

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