--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > trying to follow new.mornings posting inspirations, i've started a new > thread instead of intjecting this into the old one :)
Thanks. I hope all can follow your inspirational example. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "vajradhatu108" > > <snip> > > > Any meditation technique that relies on a object > > > of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by > > > it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh > > > acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* > > > > Of course, it's never been established that what he > > said at Estes Park ever "acknowledged" any such > > thing. > > > > I'm not sure exactly what the Estes Park quote is, but Maharishi was > quite clear that there is some "doing" in the thinking/picking up of > the mantra and that, yes, this is a contradictory to the mantra just > appearing on its own. That's why the the instruction to think or pick > up the mantra is qualified by saying "effortlessy" or "as effortessly > as a thought comes". Of course one is thinking and of course thinking > is doing. It may be an effortless doing, but it's a doing. > > While it may not be fair to dismiss TM as being a technique of > "effort" on account of that, vaj is, IMO, not incorrect in calling it > "subtle effort" becaue of that doing. To misunderstand this puts one > in the position of a meditator I once encountered who asked "What > happens if you sit there for the entire 20 minutes and the mantra > doesn't come?" Duh. In my experience, thoughts come effortlessly. Thus, if one becomes aware of the mantra as easily as one beomes aware of thoughts, there is no effort. This is the domain of the mind. In contrast, the intellect interacts with mind when it deceides it wants thoughts to appear in the mind about a particular topic. The intellect, can and does, "make some effort". It can and does often put the mind in a particular room -- the philosophy room, the errands room, the career room, etc. When placed in a particular room, thoughts tend to arise, effortlessly, about the topic area of the room. And sometimes not -- aka daydreaming -- wide open windows in that room to other areas. Or the senses can feed the mind a lot of input, and thoughts arise effortlessly in the mind -- thoughts about the input. The input stimulates thoughts. Related to TM, my view is that when the mind becomes aware, effortless, that the mantra is not there, the intellect says "we should think the mantra" and puts the mind in the mantra room. That is a very small effort of the intellect (maybe). When in the mantra room, the thought, even if very hazy, of the mantra appears effortlessly in the mind. And sometimes not -- if the windows are wide open (smaksaras), or there is a lot of sensory input which puts the mind in other rooms. Then the cycle repeats, when the mind becomes aware, effortless, that the mantra is not there, the intellect says "we should think the mantra" and puts the mind in the mantra room.... So IMO, IME, in TM there is total effortlessness in the domain of the mind. And there is the subtlest of "effort" in the domain of the intellect. So it is both effortless and minutely effortful. Or maybe there is effort on the part of the intellect, maybe not , as I qualified it before. There is effort in the domain of the intellect, if there is identification with the decision-making function of the intellect. That is, there is effort if there is a feeling, strong sense, "I" am the decision-maker. Volition is effort. That is, either a sense of being the same as the intellect, or of directing the intellect. In that there is voliton, and in oliton there is effeort -- even if its slight. That is the "everyday" experience. Until .. Until there is an understanding / foundational perspective / experience / lifeview that the intellect is functioning in its own domain, by its own rules and does not need "volition" from a "me". (See discussion with trinity some months back). This occurs when an indentity with "being the decison maker" dissolves. So from that clearer, more "awakened" perspective, there is not even any effort on the part of the intellect. It -- the intellect -- and its processes, just happen. Just as effortlessly as thoughts arise in the mind. When effort is transcended, then the [meditation] process is what it is. It just is. Someone said it would not be "meditation" if the mantra does not appear, if some subtle effort is not made to go to the mantra. Experience disagrees, at least when effort has been transcended. Eyes close, vastness is. One can transcend on "nothingness". Which is a process that I beleive Vaj is refering to: objectless meditation. Though it is "paradoxical" -- in THAT process, what is transcending what? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
