Thanks for the thoughful and articulate response. Well said. My snips
are due to brevity rather than assigning a value to certain parts.

I like your analogy of the rooms. It works well, and fits with both
experience and practice.

--- In, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Until there is an understanding / foundational perspective /
> experience / lifeview that the intellect is functioning in its own
> domain, by its own rules and does not need "volition" from a "me".
> (See discussion with trinity some months back). This occurs when an
> indentity with "being the decison maker" dissolves. 

Thanks, I'll search for this.


> When effort is transcended, then the [meditation] process is what it
> is. It just is. Someone said it would not be "meditation" if the
> mantra does not appear, if some subtle effort is not made to go to the
> mantra. Experience disagrees, at least when effort has been
> transcended. Eyes close, vastness is. One can transcend on
> "nothingness". Which is a process that I beleive Vaj is refering to:
> objectless meditation. Though it is "paradoxical" -- in THAT process,
> what is transcending what?

Nicely put. This also mirrors my experience--sit, close the eyes,
silence, vastness. I downloaded one of the documents that Vaj posted a
link to some time back which describes successive stages of
meditation/transcending and found it very familiar. "Transcending on
nothingness" is a good way to put it, paradox, notwithstanding. Having
missed most of the earlier discussion with trinity you refer to (my
time for ffl is limited), I don't have a sense of how common that
experience is, either amongst long term TM practitioners, or
"having-moved-on" TMers, or non-TMers. 

Such experiences aren't part of the teachings of TM, even though they
seem to be a natural evolution. I don't think my experience can be
that uncommon.

Anyhow, thanks again for the insights and validation of experiences.

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