There is some truth there to your words.
However, those languages that they use have become object orientated.
See VB6 became vb.net, and what it takes to run the old was dropped.
Even the newer distros of linix can only be ran on the newer
computers. You use to be able to run on any comp, but things grow up.
At 08:25 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
I might get some geeky answers to this, and I might not. Anyway,
this whole issue about what programming language should or should
not be used, and why or why not, is interesting to me, but might not
be to others. What it boils down to, to me, is this: A program, or
in this case a computer game, is what? It's a set of instructions
that the programmer wants a computer to read, process, and follow
based on the commands given by the end user. Does the end user care
about the language used to instruct their computer? No. The end
user cares about whether their computer does or does not interpret
the programmer's instructions correctly. Does this game, regardless
of how it was written operate as it should on my computer? That's
what counts. If a programmer writes programs that won't work on my
PC, I'm not going to want more programs from that programmer. The
industry dictates that I buy a new machine that is capable of using
the most up to date operating system, and now all the games I have
spent my money on, and the games I have gotten at no charge won't
work on the newest technology. So, I buy the new PC. What about
all this fun software of the past? It's obsolete. It's useless.
Now, games are designed to work with Windows 7, which I have. Will
they work on Windows 12 10 years from now? Here we go again. And
it doesn't stop. I don't think that "Shoot #'97" would work on the
PC I currently have. It was a fun game, though. Wouldn't it be
great if there were such a program as a language converter that
could translate a program that won't work on your new system into
something that would? There are so many programming languages, each
with it's good and bad points, you probably couldn't handle them
all. But how about the most commonly used ones for running on
Windows 98, XP, and Windows 7? Oops, there are more and more Mac
users all the time, and that other open source OS that I never can
remember the spelling of. Linnex? There's the compatibility
issue. This message was longer than intended. I gotta relax. Now,
where's that nineteenth beta of MOTA! Whew! Good thing I've got it!
---
Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take
it to heart.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Kaldobsky" <[email protected]>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] disrespect for gamers: was Re: Lunimals version 2.5b
Well it seems that while I've been sleeping, this argument over
programming languages has flared up once again. It seems like
this happens at some point each month, and that is exactly why
some of my fellow VB6 users view it as attacks rather than
suggestions. In other aspects of life, you've undoubtedly had
someone disagree with you about something, and they felt compelled
to share their view in an effort to get you to do things their
way. That's normal, and should be expected during life. If you
listened to their opinion, but stuck to your own, at what point
does it become inappropriate for them to bring it up again and
again? Perhaps you'll listen to the same arguments 3 or 4 times,
but when the other person is compelled to repeatedly push their
opinion on you, it becomes a hostile situation.
I'm not writing this to any one specific individual, so please
let me make that clear. This is being written, generally, to the
long list of people who are still pushing the same views after
months and months. Actually, this has probably been going on for a
lot longer, but I haven't been on audyssey for very long.
I want to dispel this idea that we VB6 users are only using it
because we don't know any other languages. I feel that view
paints us as ignorant programmers who are only rejecting your view
because we don't know any better. This is not the case, and I,
for one, happen to know just as many languages as the people who
don't want me using VB6. Admittedly I would be rusty with most of
them, since I haven't used them in years, but I prefer to be
viewed as a peer rather than a programming novice who isn't
experienced enough to know what's best for him. From my
experience, there is a stereotypical progression in how
programmers think. When they start out, they stick to what they
know because it is all they know. Like a child clinging to pool
floaties, it is scary to first venture away from what is keeping
you safe. As the programmers begins learning more, they become
excited by everything that's out there, and so they quickly begin learning
everything they can about everything! This is usually when a
programmer will fill their "belt" with several programming
languages they have learned to use. When they've branched out
sufficiently, they begin to see the need to narrow their focus back
down, and so they will use friends and society to form strong
opinions about why one/some languages and methods are
superior. This becomes their justification for abandoning their
previous way of thinking, and often leads programmers to become so
opinionated that they will attack others who do not agree with
them. The programmers in this category, and believe me I've known
more than I'd like to, defend their views with the same level of
passion you see on protest picket lines, political debates, and
religious arguments. Personally I think it is a terrible shame,
but programmers or not, people are still people, and people
suck. Like an old person who eventually stops caring what other people think,
sooner or later programmers break out of their opinionated
shell. When you are so passionate about a single view, you may be
able to admit their is another side, but you can't ever weigh it in
in an unbiased way. A person who is stuck focused on compatibility
issues is going to view everything through those goggles. For my
fellow VB6 programmers, we simply have to accept that everything
and anything we say will be viewed from that perspective and we
stand no chance in changing it.
Countless times in movies we see the diplomat and the war
general facing some situation. No matter how events unfold, good
or bad, the diplomat will twist it and view it as an opportunity
to grow and build relationships, and the war general will twist
and view it as a trap or security risk. These are common examples
of how people all into a particular way of thinking and are then
trapped to interpret all situations in that way. While the movies
entertain us with the conflict between those characters, and how
they each view each situation so differently, but in the end
neither is able to change the other. They simply have to accept
how each other are.
The people who are focused on compatibility are not going to be
swayed. The VB6 users who have already heard opinions about
changing, yet remained firm, are not going to be swayed by those
same arguments revived a month later. We have to stop trying to
convince each other to change, since each perspective has value
and needs to be present for a healthy overall community. I
believe it is important for me to focus on rapid development, but
I don't constantly post long messages telling other developers
that taking 6 months on a game is unnecessary. I could easily
push my own opinion onto others, but I have long ago moved past
the drive to do so. If my personal views put importance on rapid
development, my mission should not be to push others to develop
faster, my mission should be to fill that position myself. People
who strongly feel we need more multiplayer games shouldn't harass
others to make them, they should work on doing it themselves. And
finally, people who are focused on compatibility should implement
it within their own work rather than pushing the view on to
others. Giving an opinion, in hopes of getting others to take
compatibility issues into consideration, is perfectly fine, but
when you've already stated your view it doesn't need to be brought
up over and over.
The only argument I will speak on directly, is the fear that
eventually things will change and none of the old VB6 games will
be playable. When that happens, the environment will be different
than it is now, so why assume we would continue to hold the exact
same views as we do now? I can't speak for my comrades, but I do
what I do because I have looked at where the community is (the
current landscape) and formed my opinions about what it currently
needs. As the landscape changes, so will my opinions about what
it needs, and my projects will reflect that. When I feel it is
time to change, I will stop using VB6. Please acknowledge that I
am capable of making my own decisions, that I will change when I
think it's time, and Please stop back seat driving. Thank you.
---
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---
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If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [email protected].
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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