There is some truth there to your words.
However, those languages that they use have become object orientated. See VB6 became vb.net, and what it takes to run the old was dropped. Even the newer distros of linix can only be ran on the newer computers. You use to be able to run on any comp, but things grow up.


At 08:25 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
I might get some geeky answers to this, and I might not. Anyway, this whole issue about what programming language should or should not be used, and why or why not, is interesting to me, but might not be to others. What it boils down to, to me, is this: A program, or in this case a computer game, is what? It's a set of instructions that the programmer wants a computer to read, process, and follow based on the commands given by the end user. Does the end user care about the language used to instruct their computer? No. The end user cares about whether their computer does or does not interpret the programmer's instructions correctly. Does this game, regardless of how it was written operate as it should on my computer? That's what counts. If a programmer writes programs that won't work on my PC, I'm not going to want more programs from that programmer. The industry dictates that I buy a new machine that is capable of using the most up to date operating system, and now all the games I have spent my money on, and the games I have gotten at no charge won't work on the newest technology. So, I buy the new PC. What about all this fun software of the past? It's obsolete. It's useless. Now, games are designed to work with Windows 7, which I have. Will they work on Windows 12 10 years from now? Here we go again. And it doesn't stop. I don't think that "Shoot #'97" would work on the PC I currently have. It was a fun game, though. Wouldn't it be great if there were such a program as a language converter that could translate a program that won't work on your new system into something that would? There are so many programming languages, each with it's good and bad points, you probably couldn't handle them all. But how about the most commonly used ones for running on Windows 98, XP, and Windows 7? Oops, there are more and more Mac users all the time, and that other open source OS that I never can remember the spelling of. Linnex? There's the compatibility issue. This message was longer than intended. I gotta relax. Now, where's that nineteenth beta of MOTA! Whew! Good thing I've got it!

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Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Kaldobsky" <jer...@kaldobsky.com>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] disrespect for gamers: was Re: Lunimals version 2.5b


Well it seems that while I've been sleeping, this argument over programming languages has flared up once again. It seems like this happens at some point each month, and that is exactly why some of my fellow VB6 users view it as attacks rather than suggestions. In other aspects of life, you've undoubtedly had someone disagree with you about something, and they felt compelled to share their view in an effort to get you to do things their way. That's normal, and should be expected during life. If you listened to their opinion, but stuck to your own, at what point does it become inappropriate for them to bring it up again and again? Perhaps you'll listen to the same arguments 3 or 4 times, but when the other person is compelled to repeatedly push their opinion on you, it becomes a hostile situation.

I'm not writing this to any one specific individual, so please let me make that clear. This is being written, generally, to the long list of people who are still pushing the same views after months and months. Actually, this has probably been going on for a lot longer, but I haven't been on audyssey for very long.

I want to dispel this idea that we VB6 users are only using it because we don't know any other languages. I feel that view paints us as ignorant programmers who are only rejecting your view because we don't know any better. This is not the case, and I, for one, happen to know just as many languages as the people who don't want me using VB6. Admittedly I would be rusty with most of them, since I haven't used them in years, but I prefer to be viewed as a peer rather than a programming novice who isn't experienced enough to know what's best for him. From my experience, there is a stereotypical progression in how programmers think. When they start out, they stick to what they know because it is all they know. Like a child clinging to pool floaties, it is scary to first venture away from what is keeping you safe. As the programmers begins learning more, they become excited by everything that's out there, and so they quickly begin learning everything they can about everything! This is usually when a programmer will fill their "belt" with several programming languages they have learned to use. When they've branched out sufficiently, they begin to see the need to narrow their focus back down, and so they will use friends and society to form strong opinions about why one/some languages and methods are superior. This becomes their justification for abandoning their previous way of thinking, and often leads programmers to become so opinionated that they will attack others who do not agree with them. The programmers in this category, and believe me I've known more than I'd like to, defend their views with the same level of passion you see on protest picket lines, political debates, and religious arguments. Personally I think it is a terrible shame, but programmers or not, people are still people, and people suck. Like an old person who eventually stops caring what other people think, sooner or later programmers break out of their opinionated shell. When you are so passionate about a single view, you may be able to admit their is another side, but you can't ever weigh it in in an unbiased way. A person who is stuck focused on compatibility issues is going to view everything through those goggles. For my fellow VB6 programmers, we simply have to accept that everything and anything we say will be viewed from that perspective and we stand no chance in changing it.

Countless times in movies we see the diplomat and the war general facing some situation. No matter how events unfold, good or bad, the diplomat will twist it and view it as an opportunity to grow and build relationships, and the war general will twist and view it as a trap or security risk. These are common examples of how people all into a particular way of thinking and are then trapped to interpret all situations in that way. While the movies entertain us with the conflict between those characters, and how they each view each situation so differently, but in the end neither is able to change the other. They simply have to accept how each other are.

The people who are focused on compatibility are not going to be swayed. The VB6 users who have already heard opinions about changing, yet remained firm, are not going to be swayed by those same arguments revived a month later. We have to stop trying to convince each other to change, since each perspective has value and needs to be present for a healthy overall community. I believe it is important for me to focus on rapid development, but I don't constantly post long messages telling other developers that taking 6 months on a game is unnecessary. I could easily push my own opinion onto others, but I have long ago moved past the drive to do so. If my personal views put importance on rapid development, my mission should not be to push others to develop faster, my mission should be to fill that position myself. People who strongly feel we need more multiplayer games shouldn't harass others to make them, they should work on doing it themselves. And finally, people who are focused on compatibility should implement it within their own work rather than pushing the view on to others. Giving an opinion, in hopes of getting others to take compatibility issues into consideration, is perfectly fine, but when you've already stated your view it doesn't need to be brought up over and over.

The only argument I will speak on directly, is the fear that eventually things will change and none of the old VB6 games will be playable. When that happens, the environment will be different than it is now, so why assume we would continue to hold the exact same views as we do now? I can't speak for my comrades, but I do what I do because I have looked at where the community is (the current landscape) and formed my opinions about what it currently needs. As the landscape changes, so will my opinions about what it needs, and my projects will reflect that. When I feel it is time to change, I will stop using VB6. Please acknowledge that I am capable of making my own decisions, that I will change when I think it's time, and Please stop back seat driving. Thank you.

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