Most I will answer privately Molly, but even causal use of drugs effect thinking. Allan
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > I do understand, Allan. I worked in the field of Prevention for ten > years. I see drug addiction as a completely different issue, as > substances are used by shaman and holy men throughout the ages. I > completely agree that they are not necessary for the journey, and as I > understand it, are used by the Shaman to "journey with" the > uninitiated and allow their healing, getting them to the state that is > otherwise unaccessible to them without years of study. > > Many people who dabble in psychedelics never become drug addicts. On > the other hand, most soft drugs are considered gateway drugs to drug > addiction. I look at the state of medicine now in the US and see that > mind altering drugs like anxiety relieving or anti depressants are > used by a large majority of the population. It is not difficult to > get prescriptions for muscle relaxers, sleeping pills, diet pills or > narcotics for chronic pain either. Those prone to addiction will find > their substances one way or another. > > I too saw several lives ruined with the prolific use of psychedelics. > Unfortunate indeed. Timothy Leary's use and distribution of it is > difficult not to judge, I leave the judgement to history. Aldous > Huxley is a success story coming out to the group. John Lily (Mind of > the Dolphin) probably the best example of the pitfalls of addiction. > I try to recognize the merits of these folks individually, and the > revolutionary movement of self examination that they lead in the US as > a part of the greater evolution of the species. > > On Oct 3, 2:04 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > I want to thank you Molly for making me mad or at least mad enough to > look > > up a spelling. > > > > years ago I hear a 12 year old boy tell me about his latest acid trip and > it > > pissed me off I knew who sold it to him and it pissed me off as he was > > destroying the mind of a child. it went from there.. > > > > What the realization came to me the realization that making these addicts > > Icons if that is the right word really created a drug culture. because > > before that if you smoked dope you were known as a mugglehead.this drug > > culture of all drugs including cocaine went rampant and one heard on the > > news one thing or another about the problem and thinking back a lot of it > > focused around wall street as well as the nations capital. It is about > this > > time the extreme greed stared to show its ugly head . > > > > Looking at what is going on to day we literally and foolishly turned our > > economic well being over to drug addicts and there desire for the nest > fix. > > > > I am sorry true enlightenment does not come in a pill, all though thou > may > > cross the time / space barrier and come back with an idea then write a > book > > does not make one enlightened. Enlightenment is a long hard grind that > > allows for tempering of concepts for social good and there is a certain > > wisdom that come from the process. > > > > I know you have read Carlos Castaneda's books the first book I see a > student > > from Berkeley going to Mexico to get his drugs hiding it as research for > a > > university paper.(not a nice way of putting it but true) by the third > book > > he found out that you do not need the drug and the series show the long > hard > > struggle. He was very lucky in who he meet and took him under his wing. > > > > Molly I can not see glorifying drug addicts. > > Allan > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 6:31 PM, iam deheretic <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > My experience with people that have been on LSD is not a good one, to > me > > > they are just another junkie , I know one thing if I had to see him as > a > > > psychologist I would run as fast and as far as I could in the other > > > direction. > > > > > Those lsd junkies have I have no respect for in looking up some of the > past > > > back ground (actually a spelling check) I suddenly found out why I knew > so > > > many of them, and it was not from my work. None of the one I knew were > not > > > really worth knowing. > > > So I am dropping it from there I do not like talking about friends > > > Allan > > > > > On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> If only all mommies and daddies could teach their children to be here > > >> now. I do agree, it is a simple concept, so important, and a thread > > >> of truth that runs through the world as a common state available to > > >> all, not accessed by those trapped in ego, memory or speculation. > > >> that Ram Das studied this concept in India doesn't preclude any one > > >> else from learning it from a different tradition. His exploration in > > >> LSD may have prepared him, as did PhD in psychology, in different > > >> ways. Why some people are able to articulate the vision and others > > >> follow it is, indeed, part of the mystery, > > > > >> On Oct 2, 3:13 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > I understand it is the title of a book the point is that living > in > > >> the > > >> > hear and now is not a eastern concept but rather a world wide one.. > > >> > As for it being popular ,, well that simply show that many people > don't > > >> > listen to their mommies and daddies but would rather listen to > someone > > >> else. > > >> > Allan > > > > >> > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > Be Here Nowt was the title of his book, that was popular in the > 70s > > >> > > and sales are still strong. That's the credit I am giving him, > along > > >> > > with an ability to point the way to a great number of folks in his > > >> > > life time. > > > > >> > > On Sep 30, 1:41 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > Be here now Molly I have know of that since I was a child and > there > > >> was > > >> > > no > > >> > > > RamDas and as far as I can tell it has been around for > generation. I > > >> > > think > > >> > > > it is wrong to credit someone for creating a concept that has > been > > >> around > > >> > > > for generations. > > >> > > > Allan > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 4:09 AM, Molly <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >> > > > > "Be Here Now" was the bible for youth uprising that offered > the > > >> civil > > >> > > > > rights demonstrations and Vietnam war protests in the US in > the > > >> late > > >> > > > > 60s and early 70s. RamDas taught with Timothy Leary at > Harvard in > > >> the > > >> > > > > Psychology dept, they shared an office, and both left when > Leary > > >> was > > >> > > > > dismissed - moving to the Leary family home in California that > > >> became > > >> > > > > infamous for his experiments in LSD. After having enough of > that, > > >> > > > > RamDas left for India and found his guru, returned to his > family > > >> home > > >> > > > > on the east coast afterward, and wrote "Be Here Now," gaining > a > > >> large > > >> > > > > following for his Westernized, Eastern ideas. > > > > >> > > > > On Sep 29, 7:39 pm, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > On 9/29/2010 8:52 AM, Molly wrote:> You do what you do > because > > >> that > > >> > > s > > >> > > > > what the harmony of the universe > > >> > > > > > > requires, > > > > >> > > > > > That is something I've been able to accept but not willing > to be > > >> > > > > > comfortable with.> RamDas, "Be Here Now" > > > > >> > > > > > :) Now that sounds like a plea (kidding). While you are not, > > >> here is > > >> > > a > > >> > > > > > hard place to find, someplace between yesterday and > tomorrow. At > > >> the > > >> > > > > > moment thinking 'where' is informed by the past as a > formative > > >> > > > > > world-perspective and 'what' comes from tomorrow, potentials > > >> pushing > > >> > > > > > toward emergence. I am in awe at the mystery, William Blake > > >> echoing > > >> > > > > > around the mental aether, and metaphysics of mind. To think > I am > > >> > > great > > >> > > > > > and small, like everything else is inducing a very stable > > >> waveform. > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sep 29, 2:13 am, Ash<[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> Every time I try to respond to this it seems I am a > > >> different > > >> > > > > person > > >> > > > > > >> and can't make any sense. Things are changing rapidly > now, > > >> and I > > >> > > > > > >> switched from recreational research in evenings to work > > >> related > > >> > > > > research > > >> > > > > > >> to make pace with recovery and development efforts. The > > >> greatest > > >> > > > > changes > > >> > > > > > >> are my history, it is strange but it seems like once or > twice > > >> a > > >> > > week > > >> > > > > now > > >> > > > > > >> my perception changes dramatically regarding who and > where I > > >> have > > >> > > > > been. > > >> > > > > > >> A shock came last week when I made an intentional > experiment, > > >> and > > >> > > saw > > >> > > > > > >> myself as a 50 year old man which was not too shocking > except > > >> that > > >> > > I > > >> > > > > > >> became him in an instant and saw the progression of life > > >> until > > >> > > now. > > >> > > > > What > > >> > > > > > >> I saw was a child (myself), and being free from him was > > >> beyond > > >> > > > > > >> comprehension, many things I've known and not understood. > > >> This is > > >> > > > > > >> something I have no idea how to convey, it seems so alien > and > > >> > > beyond > > >> > > > > > >> ontogenesis. This probably belongs in psk's thread but > what > > >> to > > >> > > write > > >> > > > > > >> here has been on my mind frequently. I've been riding the > > >> wave if > > >> > > you > > >> > > > > > >> will and it is bringing good things to me, but facing > many > > >> > > challenges > > >> > > > > > >> I've been stuck with for a long time. How does one turn > their > > >> back > > >> > > on > > >> > > > > > >> onesself? It is like leaving a most intimate friend. > > > > >> > > > > > >> Best Regards, > > >> > > > > > >> Me? > > > > >> > > > > > >> On 9/12/2010 11:26 PM, gruff wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >>> "... On Sep 12, 12:57 am, Ash<[email protected]> > > >> wrote: ... > > >> > > " > > >> > > > > > >>>> In some situations I have a tend toward hypervigilance > > >> > > > > > >>> Hypervigilance can be useful as long as it doesn't wind > up > > >> in > > >> > > > > > >>> paranoia, but given bouts of depression and anxiety, it > > >> probably > > >> > > > > > >>> does. Trigger points for what? To break out of the > fugue > > >> or to > > >> > > do > > >> > > > > > >>> something else? > > >> > > > > > >>> I doubt many are ready for parenthood when it befalls > them. > > >> Even > > >> > > > > > >>> though I was convinced that my line had to end with me > > >> because of > > >> > > the > > >> > > > > > >>> socio-psychological defects, I failed to get a vasectomy > > >> until I > > >> > > was > > >> > > > > > >>> in my early 40s and have never used a condom. I think > there > > >> were > > >> > > > > some > > >> > > > > > >>> testosterone issues involved. I also had some sense > that I > > >> was > > >> > > too > > >> > > > > > >>> selfish to be a parent. I didn't want something around > my > > >> neck > > >> > > that > > >> > > > > > >>> would demand responsibility and tenacity from me. I > wanted > > >> my > > >> > > life > > >> > > > > to > > >> > > > > > >>> be my own. But the latter never fully dawned on me till > I > > >> had a > > >> > > > > > >>> squalling, smelly bundle of baby in the house. I took > an > > >> easy > > >> > > out. > > >> > > > > > >>> Both mother and daughter left me when my kid was six > months > > >> old > > >> > > and I > > >> > > > > > >>> never went after them. I've don't se anything appealing > > >> about > > >> > > baby > > >> > > > > > >>> humans. Now puppies and other animals are a different > > >> ballgame. > > >> > > > > > >>> But that's me. It sounds like you had a lot of serious > > >> > > misgivings > > >> > > > > and > > >> > > > > > >>> confidence issues but you stepped up and did what you > had to > > >> do > > >> > > in > > >> > > > > > >>> spite of -- or maybe because of -- the darkness to which > you > > >> > > > > > >>> descended. It sounds like your realization of the > > >> > > responsibilities > > >> > > > > > >>> involved overwhelmed you but again you did what you had > to > > >> do. > > >> > > > > > >>> You had a drinking problem for a short time but when you > > >> realized > > >> > > it > > >> > > > > > >>> was causing you to fail your responsibilities as a > father > > >> you put > > >> > > it > > >> > > > > > >>> down. > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป -- ( ) I_D Allan Be Paranoid. God is always building a better idiot!!!
