I do understand, Allan. I worked in the field of Prevention for ten years. I see drug addiction as a completely different issue, as substances are used by shaman and holy men throughout the ages. I completely agree that they are not necessary for the journey, and as I understand it, are used by the Shaman to "journey with" the uninitiated and allow their healing, getting them to the state that is otherwise unaccessible to them without years of study.
Many people who dabble in psychedelics never become drug addicts. On the other hand, most soft drugs are considered gateway drugs to drug addiction. I look at the state of medicine now in the US and see that mind altering drugs like anxiety relieving or anti depressants are used by a large majority of the population. It is not difficult to get prescriptions for muscle relaxers, sleeping pills, diet pills or narcotics for chronic pain either. Those prone to addiction will find their substances one way or another. I too saw several lives ruined with the prolific use of psychedelics. Unfortunate indeed. Timothy Leary's use and distribution of it is difficult not to judge, I leave the judgement to history. Aldous Huxley is a success story coming out to the group. John Lily (Mind of the Dolphin) probably the best example of the pitfalls of addiction. I try to recognize the merits of these folks individually, and the revolutionary movement of self examination that they lead in the US as a part of the greater evolution of the species. On Oct 3, 2:04 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > I want to thank you Molly for making me mad or at least mad enough to look > up a spelling. > > years ago I hear a 12 year old boy tell me about his latest acid trip and it > pissed me off I knew who sold it to him and it pissed me off as he was > destroying the mind of a child. it went from there.. > > What the realization came to me the realization that making these addicts > Icons if that is the right word really created a drug culture. because > before that if you smoked dope you were known as a mugglehead.this drug > culture of all drugs including cocaine went rampant and one heard on the > news one thing or another about the problem and thinking back a lot of it > focused around wall street as well as the nations capital. It is about this > time the extreme greed stared to show its ugly head . > > Looking at what is going on to day we literally and foolishly turned our > economic well being over to drug addicts and there desire for the nest fix. > > I am sorry true enlightenment does not come in a pill, all though thou may > cross the time / space barrier and come back with an idea then write a book > does not make one enlightened. Enlightenment is a long hard grind that > allows for tempering of concepts for social good and there is a certain > wisdom that come from the process. > > I know you have read Carlos Castaneda's books the first book I see a student > from Berkeley going to Mexico to get his drugs hiding it as research for a > university paper.(not a nice way of putting it but true) by the third book > he found out that you do not need the drug and the series show the long hard > struggle. He was very lucky in who he meet and took him under his wing. > > Molly I can not see glorifying drug addicts. > Allan > > > > On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 6:31 PM, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > My experience with people that have been on LSD is not a good one, to me > > they are just another junkie , I know one thing if I had to see him as a > > psychologist I would run as fast and as far as I could in the other > > direction. > > > Those lsd junkies have I have no respect for in looking up some of the past > > back ground (actually a spelling check) I suddenly found out why I knew so > > many of them, and it was not from my work. None of the one I knew were not > > really worth knowing. > > So I am dropping it from there I do not like talking about friends > > Allan > > > On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> If only all mommies and daddies could teach their children to be here > >> now. I do agree, it is a simple concept, so important, and a thread > >> of truth that runs through the world as a common state available to > >> all, not accessed by those trapped in ego, memory or speculation. > >> that Ram Das studied this concept in India doesn't preclude any one > >> else from learning it from a different tradition. His exploration in > >> LSD may have prepared him, as did PhD in psychology, in different > >> ways. Why some people are able to articulate the vision and others > >> follow it is, indeed, part of the mystery, > > >> On Oct 2, 3:13 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > I understand it is the title of a book the point is that living in > >> the > >> > hear and now is not a eastern concept but rather a world wide one.. > >> > As for it being popular ,, well that simply show that many people don't > >> > listen to their mommies and daddies but would rather listen to someone > >> else. > >> > Allan > > >> > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > Be Here Nowt was the title of his book, that was popular in the 70s > >> > > and sales are still strong. That's the credit I am giving him, along > >> > > with an ability to point the way to a great number of folks in his > >> > > life time. > > >> > > On Sep 30, 1:41 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > Be here now Molly I have know of that since I was a child and there > >> was > >> > > no > >> > > > RamDas and as far as I can tell it has been around for generation. I > >> > > think > >> > > > it is wrong to credit someone for creating a concept that has been > >> around > >> > > > for generations. > >> > > > Allan > > >> > > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 4:09 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > "Be Here Now" was the bible for youth uprising that offered the > >> civil > >> > > > > rights demonstrations and Vietnam war protests in the US in the > >> late > >> > > > > 60s and early 70s. RamDas taught with Timothy Leary at Harvard in > >> the > >> > > > > Psychology dept, they shared an office, and both left when Leary > >> was > >> > > > > dismissed - moving to the Leary family home in California that > >> became > >> > > > > infamous for his experiments in LSD. After having enough of that, > >> > > > > RamDas left for India and found his guru, returned to his family > >> home > >> > > > > on the east coast afterward, and wrote "Be Here Now," gaining a > >> large > >> > > > > following for his Westernized, Eastern ideas. > > >> > > > > On Sep 29, 7:39 pm, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > > On 9/29/2010 8:52 AM, Molly wrote:> You do what you do because > >> that > >> > > s > >> > > > > what the harmony of the universe > >> > > > > > > requires, > > >> > > > > > That is something I've been able to accept but not willing to be > >> > > > > > comfortable with.> RamDas, "Be Here Now" > > >> > > > > > :) Now that sounds like a plea (kidding). While you are not, > >> here is > >> > > a > >> > > > > > hard place to find, someplace between yesterday and tomorrow. At > >> the > >> > > > > > moment thinking 'where' is informed by the past as a formative > >> > > > > > world-perspective and 'what' comes from tomorrow, potentials > >> pushing > >> > > > > > toward emergence. I am in awe at the mystery, William Blake > >> echoing > >> > > > > > around the mental aether, and metaphysics of mind. To think I am > >> > > great > >> > > > > > and small, like everything else is inducing a very stable > >> waveform. > > >> > > > > > > On Sep 29, 2:13 am, Ash<[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> Every time I try to respond to this it seems I am a > >> different > >> > > > > person > >> > > > > > >> and can't make any sense. Things are changing rapidly now, > >> and I > >> > > > > > >> switched from recreational research in evenings to work > >> related > >> > > > > research > >> > > > > > >> to make pace with recovery and development efforts. The > >> greatest > >> > > > > changes > >> > > > > > >> are my history, it is strange but it seems like once or twice > >> a > >> > > week > >> > > > > now > >> > > > > > >> my perception changes dramatically regarding who and where I > >> have > >> > > > > been. > >> > > > > > >> A shock came last week when I made an intentional experiment, > >> and > >> > > saw > >> > > > > > >> myself as a 50 year old man which was not too shocking except > >> that > >> > > I > >> > > > > > >> became him in an instant and saw the progression of life > >> until > >> > > now. > >> > > > > What > >> > > > > > >> I saw was a child (myself), and being free from him was > >> beyond > >> > > > > > >> comprehension, many things I've known and not understood. > >> This is > >> > > > > > >> something I have no idea how to convey, it seems so alien and > >> > > beyond > >> > > > > > >> ontogenesis. This probably belongs in psk's thread but what > >> to > >> > > write > >> > > > > > >> here has been on my mind frequently. I've been riding the > >> wave if > >> > > you > >> > > > > > >> will and it is bringing good things to me, but facing many > >> > > challenges > >> > > > > > >> I've been stuck with for a long time. How does one turn their > >> back > >> > > on > >> > > > > > >> onesself? It is like leaving a most intimate friend. > > >> > > > > > >> Best Regards, > >> > > > > > >> Me? > > >> > > > > > >> On 9/12/2010 11:26 PM, gruff wrote: > > >> > > > > > >>> "... On Sep 12, 12:57 am, Ash<[email protected]> > >> wrote: ... > >> > > " > >> > > > > > >>>> In some situations I have a tend toward hypervigilance > >> > > > > > >>> Hypervigilance can be useful as long as it doesn't wind up > >> in > >> > > > > > >>> paranoia, but given bouts of depression and anxiety, it > >> probably > >> > > > > > >>> does. Trigger points for what? To break out of the fugue > >> or to > >> > > do > >> > > > > > >>> something else? > >> > > > > > >>> I doubt many are ready for parenthood when it befalls them. > >> Even > >> > > > > > >>> though I was convinced that my line had to end with me > >> because of > >> > > the > >> > > > > > >>> socio-psychological defects, I failed to get a vasectomy > >> until I > >> > > was > >> > > > > > >>> in my early 40s and have never used a condom. I think there > >> were > >> > > > > some > >> > > > > > >>> testosterone issues involved. I also had some sense that I > >> was > >> > > too > >> > > > > > >>> selfish to be a parent. I didn't want something around my > >> neck > >> > > that > >> > > > > > >>> would demand responsibility and tenacity from me. I wanted > >> my > >> > > life > >> > > > > to > >> > > > > > >>> be my own. But the latter never fully dawned on me till I > >> had a > >> > > > > > >>> squalling, smelly bundle of baby in the house. I took an > >> easy > >> > > out. > >> > > > > > >>> Both mother and daughter left me when my kid was six months > >> old > >> > > and I > >> > > > > > >>> never went after them. I've don't se anything appealing > >> about > >> > > baby > >> > > > > > >>> humans. Now puppies and other animals are a different > >> ballgame. > >> > > > > > >>> But that's me. It sounds like you had a lot of serious > >> > > misgivings > >> > > > > and > >> > > > > > >>> confidence issues but you stepped up and did what you had to > >> do > >> > > in > >> > > > > > >>> spite of -- or maybe because of -- the darkness to which you > >> > > > > > >>> descended. It sounds like your realization of the > >> > > responsibilities > >> > > > > > >>> involved overwhelmed you but again you did what you had to > >> do. > >> > > > > > >>> You had a drinking problem for a short time but when you > >> realized > >> > > it > >> > > > > > >>> was causing you to fail your responsibilities as a father > >> you put > >> > > it > >> > > > > > >>> down. > > ... > > read more »
