Most I will answer privately Molly,
but even causal use of drugs effect thinking.
Allan
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Molly <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I do understand, Allan. I worked in the field of Prevention for ten
years. I see drug addiction as a completely different issue, as
substances are used by shaman and holy men throughout the ages. I
completely agree that they are not necessary for the journey, and as I
understand it, are used by the Shaman to "journey with" the
uninitiated and allow their healing, getting them to the state that is
otherwise unaccessible to them without years of study.
Many people who dabble in psychedelics never become drug addicts. On
the other hand, most soft drugs are considered gateway drugs to drug
addiction. I look at the state of medicine now in the US and see that
mind altering drugs like anxiety relieving or anti depressants are
used by a large majority of the population. It is not difficult to
get prescriptions for muscle relaxers, sleeping pills, diet pills or
narcotics for chronic pain either. Those prone to addiction will find
their substances one way or another.
I too saw several lives ruined with the prolific use of psychedelics.
Unfortunate indeed. Timothy Leary's use and distribution of it is
difficult not to judge, I leave the judgement to history. Aldous
Huxley is a success story coming out to the group. John Lily (Mind of
the Dolphin) probably the best example of the pitfalls of addiction.
I try to recognize the merits of these folks individually, and the
revolutionary movement of self examination that they lead in the US as
a part of the greater evolution of the species.
On Oct 3, 2:04 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> I want to thank you Molly for making me mad or at least mad
enough to look
> up a spelling.
>
> years ago I hear a 12 year old boy tell me about his latest acid
trip and it
> pissed me off I knew who sold it to him and it pissed me off as
he was
> destroying the mind of a child. it went from there..
>
> What the realization came to me the realization that making
these addicts
> Icons if that is the right word really created a drug culture.
because
> before that if you smoked dope you were known as a
mugglehead.this drug
> culture of all drugs including cocaine went rampant and one
heard on the
> news one thing or another about the problem and thinking back a
lot of it
> focused around wall street as well as the nations capital. It is
about this
> time the extreme greed stared to show its ugly head .
>
> Looking at what is going on to day we literally and foolishly
turned our
> economic well being over to drug addicts and there desire for
the nest fix.
>
> I am sorry true enlightenment does not come in a pill, all
though thou may
> cross the time / space barrier and come back with an idea then
write a book
> does not make one enlightened. Enlightenment is a long hard
grind that
> allows for tempering of concepts for social good and there is a
certain
> wisdom that come from the process.
>
> I know you have read Carlos Castaneda's books the first book I
see a student
> from Berkeley going to Mexico to get his drugs hiding it as
research for a
> university paper.(not a nice way of putting it but true) by the
third book
> he found out that you do not need the drug and the series show
the long hard
> struggle. He was very lucky in who he meet and took him under
his wing.
>
> Molly I can not see glorifying drug addicts.
> Allan
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 6:31 PM, iam deheretic
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > My experience with people that have been on LSD is not a good
one, to me
> > they are just another junkie , I know one thing if I had to
see him as a
> > psychologist I would run as fast and as far as I could in the
other
> > direction.
>
> > Those lsd junkies have I have no respect for in looking up
some of the past
> > back ground (actually a spelling check) I suddenly found out
why I knew so
> > many of them, and it was not from my work. None of the one I
knew were not
> > really worth knowing.
> > So I am dropping it from there I do not like talking about friends
> > Allan
>
> > On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Molly <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> >> If only all mommies and daddies could teach their children to
be here
> >> now. I do agree, it is a simple concept, so important, and a
thread
> >> of truth that runs through the world as a common state
available to
> >> all, not accessed by those trapped in ego, memory or speculation.
> >> that Ram Das studied this concept in India doesn't preclude
any one
> >> else from learning it from a different tradition. His
exploration in
> >> LSD may have prepared him, as did PhD in psychology, in different
> >> ways. Why some people are able to articulate the vision and
others
> >> follow it is, indeed, part of the mystery,
>
> >> On Oct 2, 3:13 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >> > I understand it is the title of a book the point is that
living in
> >> the
> >> > hear and now is not a eastern concept but rather a world
wide one..
> >> > As for it being popular ,, well that simply show that many
people don't
> >> > listen to their mommies and daddies but would rather listen
to someone
> >> else.
> >> > Allan
>
> >> > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Molly <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >> > > Be Here Nowt was the title of his book, that was popular
in the 70s
> >> > > and sales are still strong. That's the credit I am
giving him, along
> >> > > with an ability to point the way to a great number of
folks in his
> >> > > life time.
>
> >> > > On Sep 30, 1:41 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >> > > > Be here now Molly I have know of that since I was a
child and there
> >> was
> >> > > no
> >> > > > RamDas and as far as I can tell it has been around for
generation. I
> >> > > think
> >> > > > it is wrong to credit someone for creating a concept
that has been
> >> around
> >> > > > for generations.
> >> > > > Allan
>
> >> > > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 4:09 AM, Molly
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >> > > > > "Be Here Now" was the bible for youth uprising that
offered the
> >> civil
> >> > > > > rights demonstrations and Vietnam war protests in the
US in the
> >> late
> >> > > > > 60s and early 70s. RamDas taught with Timothy Leary
at Harvard in
> >> the
> >> > > > > Psychology dept, they shared an office, and both left
when Leary
> >> was
> >> > > > > dismissed - moving to the Leary family home in
California that
> >> became
> >> > > > > infamous for his experiments in LSD. After having
enough of that,
> >> > > > > RamDas left for India and found his guru, returned to
his family
> >> home
> >> > > > > on the east coast afterward, and wrote "Be Here Now,"
gaining a
> >> large
> >> > > > > following for his Westernized, Eastern ideas.
>
> >> > > > > On Sep 29, 7:39 pm, Ash <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > On 9/29/2010 8:52 AM, Molly wrote:> You do what
you do because
> >> that
> >> > > s
> >> > > > > what the harmony of the universe
> >> > > > > > > requires,
>
> >> > > > > > That is something I've been able to accept but not
willing to be
> >> > > > > > comfortable with.> RamDas, "Be Here Now"
>
> >> > > > > > :) Now that sounds like a plea (kidding). While you
are not,
> >> here is
> >> > > a
> >> > > > > > hard place to find, someplace between yesterday and
tomorrow. At
> >> the
> >> > > > > > moment thinking 'where' is informed by the past as
a formative
> >> > > > > > world-perspective and 'what' comes from tomorrow,
potentials
> >> pushing
> >> > > > > > toward emergence. I am in awe at the mystery,
William Blake
> >> echoing
> >> > > > > > around the mental aether, and metaphysics of mind.
To think I am
> >> > > great
> >> > > > > > and small, like everything else is inducing a very
stable
> >> waveform.
>
> >> > > > > > > On Sep 29, 2:13 am, Ash<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> Every time I try to respond to this it seems
I am a
> >> different
> >> > > > > person
> >> > > > > > >> and can't make any sense. Things are changing
rapidly now,
> >> and I
> >> > > > > > >> switched from recreational research in evenings
to work
> >> related
> >> > > > > research
> >> > > > > > >> to make pace with recovery and development
efforts. The
> >> greatest
> >> > > > > changes
> >> > > > > > >> are my history, it is strange but it seems like
once or twice
> >> a
> >> > > week
> >> > > > > now
> >> > > > > > >> my perception changes dramatically regarding who
and where I
> >> have
> >> > > > > been.
> >> > > > > > >> A shock came last week when I made an
intentional experiment,
> >> and
> >> > > saw
> >> > > > > > >> myself as a 50 year old man which was not too
shocking except
> >> that
> >> > > I
> >> > > > > > >> became him in an instant and saw the progression
of life
> >> until
> >> > > now.
> >> > > > > What
> >> > > > > > >> I saw was a child (myself), and being free from
him was
> >> beyond
> >> > > > > > >> comprehension, many things I've known and not
understood.
> >> This is
> >> > > > > > >> something I have no idea how to convey, it seems
so alien and
> >> > > beyond
> >> > > > > > >> ontogenesis. This probably belongs in psk's
thread but what
> >> to
> >> > > write
> >> > > > > > >> here has been on my mind frequently. I've been
riding the
> >> wave if
> >> > > you
> >> > > > > > >> will and it is bringing good things to me, but
facing many
> >> > > challenges
> >> > > > > > >> I've been stuck with for a long time. How does
one turn their
> >> back
> >> > > on
> >> > > > > > >> onesself? It is like leaving a most intimate friend.
>
> >> > > > > > >> Best Regards,
> >> > > > > > >> Me?
>
> >> > > > > > >> On 9/12/2010 11:26 PM, gruff wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > >>> "... On Sep 12, 12:57 am,
Ash<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> wrote: ...
> >> > > "
> >> > > > > > >>>> In some situations I have a tend toward
hypervigilance
> >> > > > > > >>> Hypervigilance can be useful as long as it
doesn't wind up
> >> in
> >> > > > > > >>> paranoia, but given bouts of depression and
anxiety, it
> >> probably
> >> > > > > > >>> does. Trigger points for what? To break out
of the fugue
> >> or to
> >> > > do
> >> > > > > > >>> something else?
> >> > > > > > >>> I doubt many are ready for parenthood when it
befalls them.
> >> Even
> >> > > > > > >>> though I was convinced that my line had to end
with me
> >> because of
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > > >>> socio-psychological defects, I failed to get a
vasectomy
> >> until I
> >> > > was
> >> > > > > > >>> in my early 40s and have never used a condom.
I think there
> >> were
> >> > > > > some
> >> > > > > > >>> testosterone issues involved. I also had some
sense that I
> >> was
> >> > > too
> >> > > > > > >>> selfish to be a parent. I didn't want
something around my
> >> neck
> >> > > that
> >> > > > > > >>> would demand responsibility and tenacity from
me. I wanted
> >> my
> >> > > life
> >> > > > > to
> >> > > > > > >>> be my own. But the latter never fully dawned
on me till I
> >> had a
> >> > > > > > >>> squalling, smelly bundle of baby in the house.
I took an
> >> easy
> >> > > out.
> >> > > > > > >>> Both mother and daughter left me when my kid
was six months
> >> old
> >> > > and I
> >> > > > > > >>> never went after them. I've don't se anything
appealing
> >> about
> >> > > baby
> >> > > > > > >>> humans. Now puppies and other animals are a
different
> >> ballgame.
> >> > > > > > >>> But that's me. It sounds like you had a lot of
serious
> >> > > misgivings
> >> > > > > and
> >> > > > > > >>> confidence issues but you stepped up and did
what you had to
> >> do
> >> > > in
> >> > > > > > >>> spite of -- or maybe because of -- the darkness
to which you
> >> > > > > > >>> descended. It sounds like your realization of the
> >> > > responsibilities
> >> > > > > > >>> involved overwhelmed you but again you did what
you had to
> >> do.
> >> > > > > > >>> You had a drinking problem for a short time but
when you
> >> realized
> >> > > it
> >> > > > > > >>> was causing you to fail your responsibilities
as a father
> >> you put
> >> > > it
> >> > > > > > >>> down.
>
> ...
>
> read more ยป
--
(
)
I_D Allan
Be Paranoid.
God is always building a better idiot!!!
