Translations are a time a dozen every one is trying to express their own point of view. Allan
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Nov 26, 4:05 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > Of course I am reading a translation, It is people reading thing into > words > > are not really there. When you are looking into spirituality you are > looking > > for clarity not confusion. It seems to me people read into what is > written > > just what they want to hear. My self I prefer to read what is said not > what > > people want it to say. > > So far I have seen little of Isaiah but maybe I am reading the wrong > > section. > > And, of course, you need the Hebrew. I have a very good Hebrew/ > English breakdown and study of Isaiah at home. It breaks it down into > two volumes of around 800 pages each. Lots of commentary, which gives > multiple interpretations. Funnily enough, though, as it's a Jewish > study guide, does it try to match any Christian or Islamic > interpretations...except for where it refutes them. Which, in my > book, is another way of mentioning them just refraining from accepting > them as valid. But it certainly gives a very wide view of the book. > Isaiah was one of the prophets directly mentioned in the Qur'an, so I > reckon there must have been a reason for giving him credence and, as > Isa 29:12 matches perfectly with the beginning of the revelation of > the Qur'an, it's no small wonder. The two give credence to one > another. And, of course, the tone of God speaking through Isaiah > matches the tone of God speaking through Gabriel to the Prophet > Muhammed (pbuh) perfectly. Same patterns of speech exactly. But the > two could NOT have been written by the same human author; but, there's > every reason to assume the God was the same. At least that's the > 'party line'. ;-) > > Have a good weekend!!! > > > Allan > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Pat <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > On Nov 25, 6:03 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Pat I have not finished reading quran, I see to much that was not > > > written > > > > by God or Allah but the direct influence of man.. > > > > But believe what you want to believe.. > > > > Allan > > > > > I assume, then, that you're reading a translation. The whole poetic > > > aspect of it along with double/triple entendres get completely lost. > > > But, of course, that doesn't detract from my statement that the very > > > beginning of the revelation OF the Qur'an matches that prophecy in > > > Isaiah word-for-word. > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Pat <[email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On Nov 16, 9:24 pm, pathfinder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Just like in the days of Noah, shall the days be when the Son of > Man > > > > > > is revealed. Noah's message was strange and inconceivable. Jesus > > > spoke > > > > > > of this in Luke 17:26> "And as it was in the days of No'e, so > shall > > > it > > > > > > be also in the days of the Son of man." The warning is also in > the > > > > > > numbers: 8 souls saved. > > > > > > Isaiah 29:10> "For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit > of > > > > > > deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your > rulers, > > > > > > the seers hath he covered. > (11)- And the visioin of all has is > > > > > > become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men > > > > > > deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: > and > > > he > > > > > > saith, I cannot: for it is sealed:> (12)- And the book is > delivered > > > to > > > > > > him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he > > > saith, > > > > > > I am not learned.> > > > > > > > Just as an aside, this Isaiah 29:12 is exactly what happened to the > > > > > Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). The first word that was revealed to him > was > > > > > "Read!" and his response was "I am not learned". This prophecy was > > > > > fulfilled word for word and resulted in the Qur'an. > > > > > > > (13)- Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this > > > > > > people draw near me with their mouth, and their lips do honour > me, > > > but > > > > > > have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is > > > > > > taught by the precept of men:> (14)- Therefore, behold, I will > proced > > > > > > to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work > and a > > > > > > wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the > > > > > > understanding of their prudent men shall be > > > > > > hid." > > > > > > Now tell me, If the leaders and the prophets have been blinded by > > > God, > > > > > > how could one logically expect God to be there passing out sights > and > > > > > > visions? God speaks for himself. We just have to learn to listen > and > > > > > > apply. > > > > > > On Nov 16, 8:50 am, frantheman <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Let us all be damned! If reading this kind of rubbish is > > > conditional > > > > > > > to being saved, then I don't want to be ... > > > > > > > > > Francis > > > > > > > > > On 16 Nov., 17:37, "[email protected]" < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Spam spam I call spam! > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 16, 4:23 pm, edward mason <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > > > > > From: <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 2:12 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Testimony of Jesus Christ[2]--word document.doc > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > I've shared Testimony of Jesus Christ[2]--word > > > > > > > > > document.doc< > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1epTOPsmbeL_wmUUDCeJdwQaM4totpYZjG.. > > > .> > > > > > > > > > Click to open: > > > > > > > > > > > - Testimony of Jesus Christ[2]--word > > > > > > > > > document.doc< > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1epTOPsmbeL_wmUUDCeJdwQaM4totpYZjG.. > > > .> > > > > > > > > > > > LAST DAY PROPHECIES THAT FIT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE > PRESENT > > > DAY > > > > > > > > > > > “THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS THE SWORD” > > > > > > > > > > > Revelation 12:17 “And the dragon was wroth with the > woman, > > > and > > > > > went to > > > > > > > > > make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the > > > commandments > > > > > of God, > > > > > > > > > and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” > > > > > > > > > > > Revelation 19:10 “And I fell at his feet to worship him. > And he > > > > > said unto > > > > > > > > > me,’ see thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of > thy > > > > > brothren > > > > > > > > > that have > > > > > > > > > the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of > Jesus > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > spirit of Prophecy.” > > > > > > > > > > > So then, it should be noteworthy that there are > differences > > > > > between the > > > > > > > > > ‘Testimony of Jesus the Christ’, and the testimony of > another > > > that > > > > > ‘Jesus is > > > > > > > > > the Christ’. For there are words in some of Jesus’ sayings > that > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > indicate that there will be those in the last days, though > > > being > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > > testify that Jesus is the Christ, will be shut out of the > > > kingdom > > > > > of Heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > Luke 13:26 “Then shall ye begin to say, ‘We have eaten and > > > drunk in > > > > > thy > > > > > > > > > presence, and thou hast taught in our streets’.” > > > > > > > > > > > Luke 13:27 “ But he shall say, ’I tell you, I know not > whence > > > ye > > > > > are; depart > > > > > > > > > from me, all ye workers of iniquity’. “ > > > > > > > > > > > Luke 6:46 “ And why call ye me, Lord, and do not the > things > > > which > > > > > I say?” > > > > > > > > > > > A testimony is the witnessing one gives from his > collection > > > of > > > > > evidence > > > > > > > > > and experiences. What man testify to is one thing: that > Jesus > > > is > > > > > the Supreme > > > > > > > > > Sacrifice, the Savior, the Prince of Peace, and the > Repairer of > > > the > > > > > Breach, > > > > > > > > > is one thing; But what Jesus testify to leads to the > Salvation > > > of > > > > > the Soul, > > > > > > > > > the Way to God, Eternal Light and Life. As unfortunate as > it > > > may > > > > > appear at > > > > > > > > > first, upon hearing Jesus’ testimony for the very first > time, > > > it > > > > > would be > > > > > > > > > wise to bear in mind that the whole is God’s plan for > > > Salvation. We > > > > > have all > > > > > > > > > transgressed the Laws of God, and the wages of sin is > death. > > > > > Wherefore, to > > > > > > > > > be placed under a period of judgment, with an opportunity > to > > > > > repent, have a > > > > > > > > > change of heart, and then be removed from judgment to > Eternal > > > Life, > > > > > is truly > > > > > > > > > the Mercy and Righteousness of God. While to remain > ignorant in > > > the > > > > > face of > > > > > > > > > Truth and Word of God makes us guilty in the Blood- shed of > all > > > the > > > > > Holy > > > > > > > > > People. > > > > > > > > > > > But then, that’s my testimony. And who am I, but a > sinner, > > > and > > > > > another who > > > > > > > > > have fallen short of the Glory of God? Yet in my search, I > > > knocked, > > > > > and some > > > > > > > > > doors opened up. Now I have the duty to testify; to try to > show > > > > > some things > > > > > > > > > that I’ve seen behind some of those doors: to describe the > > > Light I > > > > > saw at > > > > > > > > > the end of that long, narrow tunnel. I must share what I > hear > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > understandings of my heart. I bring for my witnesses the > words > > > of > > > > > God. > > > > > > > > > > > Man rebelled ever against God. God spoke, “ Repent and > return > > > to > > > > > me, and > > > > > > > > > I’ll send you healing, peace, and plenty. Continue to rebel > and > > > > > transgress, > > > > > > > > > death, the sword, and desolation shall be your reward.” > Man > > > (male > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > female) never repented. How is it, then, that man concluded > > > that > > > > > God changed > > > > > > > > > his mind and sent us a savior, when he promised us a > sword? I > > > > > choose to > > > > > > > > > believe the Testimony of Jesus, above the testimony of man. > > > Why? > > > > > Because the > > > > > > > > > testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy, and the > > > Prophecies > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > history and the present confirming their Truth, even to the > > > letter. > > > > > > > > > > > It is evident that where there appear to be gaps in > them, > > > it is > > > > > due to > > > > > > > > > our mistakens, misapplications, and grave > misinterpretations. > > > As > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > prophecy says; > > > > > > > > > > > Isaiah 34:16 “ Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and > read: > > > no > > > > > one of > > > > > > > > > these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it > > > hath > > > > > commanded, > > > > > > > > > and his spirit it hath gathered them.” > > > > > > > > > > > Isaiah 28:9 “Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall > he > > > make > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, > and > > > drawn > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > breasts.”... ( Note: Isaiah 7:22> “And it shall come to > > > pass, > > > > > for the > > > > > > > > > abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: > for > > > > > butter and > > > > > > > > > honey shall every one eat that is left in the land.” ) > > > > > > > > > > > Isaiah 28:10 “ For precept must be on precept, precept upon > > > > > precept; line > > > > > > > > > upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a > little: > > > > > > > > > > > Isaiah 28:11 “ For with stammering lips and another tongue > will > > > he > > > > > speak to > > > > > > > > > this people.” > > > > > > > > > > > Isaiah 28:12 “ For whom he said, ‘ This is the rest where > with > > > ye > > > > > may cause > > > > > > > > > the weary to rest: and this is the refreshing’. “ > > > > > > > > > > > With these things in mind, let’s consider some of Jesus’ > > > > > testimony as > > > > > > > > > written: > > > > > > > > > > > Mathew 5:17 “ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, > or > > > the > > > > > prophets: > > > > > > > > > (spirit of Prophecy) > > > > > > > > > > > I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill (them).” > > > > > > > > > > > John 5:39 “ Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye > have > > > > > eternal > > > > > > > > > life: and they are which testify of me.” > > > > > > > > > > > Mathew 10:34 “ Think not that I am come to send peace on > earth: > > > I > > > > > came not > > > > > > > > > to send peace, but a sword.” > > > > > > > > > > > Luke 12:49 “ I am come to send fire on the earth; and what > will > > > I > > > > > if it be > > > > > > > > > already kindled?” > > > > > > > > > > > Now here’s a prophecy which we wrestle with needlessly: > > > Jesus > > > > > mentions it > > > > > > > > > in Mathew 13:9-17. One reason that we have so much trouble > with > > > > > this one is > > > > > > > > > because we have not heard the Word and we like the comfort > > > provided > > > > > by our > > > > > > > > > own understanding even though the land remain desolate and > we > > > burn > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > > fierce anger of the Lord. The other reason is because it is > the > > > > > Will of God > > > > > > > > > that we remain under judgment until he has executed it in > full. > > > The > > > > > prophecy > > > > > > > > > mentioned is: > > > > > > > > > > > Isaiah 6:9-12 “ And he said, go and tell these people, hear > ye > > > > > indeed, but > > > > > > > > > understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. > > > > > > > > > > > Isaiah 6:10 “Make the heart of these people fat, and make > their > > > > > ears heavy, > > > > > > > > > and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and > hear > > > with > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be > > > healed. > > > > > > > > > > > Isaiah 6:11 “Then said I, ‘ > > > > > > ... > > > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > -- > > ( > > ) > > I_D Allan > > > > Be Paranoid. > > God is always building a better idiot!!!- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - -- ( ) I_D Allan Be Paranoid. God is always building a better idiot!!!
