> > [Krimel] > > I asked you if you support unequivocally support Ham's statements. I > > withdraw all suggestion of racism. Do you endorse this statement from Ham: > > > > "Our nation has allowed itself to be intimidated by an alien culture on > > the premise that discrimination is a bad word." > > > > What alien culture is he talking about? > > [Platt] > The alien culture I talk about is Marxism. He may be referring to > tribalism. > > [Krimel] > What Marxist culture? There is not Marxist culture. What tribal society > poses a threat to the United States?
All European nations are, for the most part, socialist, i.e. Marxist "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." The Democrat party in the U.S. subscribes to those principles and now holds power in Congress. Multiculturism now being taught in government schools equates tribal societies with the free market capitalism. > > [Krimel] > > What forms of discrimination do you and he support? > > [Platt] > Between good and evil. > > [Krimel] > As defined by you and Ham? Who has advanced the idea that such > discrimination is bad. I assume you also discriminate between good and evil. You seemed to suggest that discrimination was bad. > > "Children today are taught that Democracy means "social equality" rather > > than individual freedom." What does this mean? Should we teach children > > social inequality? How is social equality at odds with individual freedom? > > [Platt] > Social equality as taught means everyone gets an equal slice of the pie. > > [Krimel] > It might mean that everyone gets and equal shot at a piece of the pie but > how it that bad? That's not bad. But, as taught it usually means redistribution of income, whether earned or not. > > [Platt] > > Where is it mandated that "third-world cultural values as equal to those > > of the Free World?" What "third-world cultural values" are you two talking > > about? > > [Platt] > Tribalism. > > [Krimel] > Where is tribalism even practiced much lets touted as being equal to the > Free World? Multiculturism. All cultures are equal. > > [Krimel] > > He says, "welfare programs that will transform entrepreneurial capitalism > > into collective socialism." Name a single politician in the history of > > this country who has called for the state to take over the means of > > production in this country. > > [Platt] > Hillary, Obama -- take over the oil companies. > > [Krimel] > I must have missed that. Was this in a debate? Which oil companies have > either of them proposed nationalizing? All of them. They have proposed taking away their profits which is tantamount to nationalization. > > [Krimel] > > Are you saying that "entitlements and welfare programs" do not refer to > > poor blacks? Who are they directed towards? > > [Platt] > People below an arbitrary poverty line. > > [Krimel] > Odd, I have never really looked at that but this chart suggests that before > the late 1950s almost 60% of blacks in this country lived below that > arbitrary line now it's about 20%. Care to comment on the success or failure > of the war on poverty and "entitlement" programs? > > http://www.bsos.umd.edu/socy/vanneman/socy441/trends/povrace.html Check the chart at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States > [Platt] > If you think Pirsig is extolling the Indian lifestyle and recommends we go > back to it, you would think he'd join them. Instead, like the individualist > he is, he chose to the spend a good deal of his time in the solitary > confines of his boat. No doubt some Indian values were worthy and influenced > the evolution of American culture. But, Pirsig put those values in > perspective when he wrote: "Indian values are all right for an Indian style > of life, but they don't work so well in a complex technological society. > Indians themselves have a terrible time when they move from the reservation > to the city. Cities function on punctuality and attention to material > detail. They depend on the ability to subordinate to authority, whether it > is a cop or an office manager or a bus driver. An upbringing that allows the > child to grow "naturally" in the Indian fashion does not necessarily > guarantee the finest sort of urban adjustment." (Lila, 22) > > [Krimel] > What Pirsig extols is Indian Values. It is obvious to anyone who looks at > American history that the fate of the Indian lifestyle was doomed in 1492. > European invaders and the US government engaged it despicable, treacherous > and deceitful practices that made sure of that. Capturing tribal leaders > under flags of truce, violating treaties, extortion, genocide, slaughter of > the buffalo; it is a sorry story but not one you seem the least remorseful > about. It is much worse than the government sanctioned treatment of slaves > who, as property, at least had Value worth preserving. How can I be remorseful? I wasn't there. > Isn't this the kind of evil you think worth discriminating against? Wouldn't > you agree that there are lessons in this history that should be taught to > our children? Absolutely -- as well as the evils of collectivism as practiced in Germany, Italy, China, Cuba, North Korea and Russia in the 20th century and continuing to this day. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
