Quoting Arlo Bensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > [Platt] > Which only proves when you're challenged and can't win an argument, > you resort to a personal attack. > > [Arlo] > No. It proves, as usual, you squalk about things like "postmodernism" > without any knowledge on the subject. Your own words prove this. I > just point it out.
Of course, you're knowledgeable> What a laugh. > [Platt] > A particular person? Then why does Pirsig write, "Any person of any > philosophic persuasion who sits on a hot stove will verify without > any intellectual argument whatsoever that he is in an undeniably > low-quality situation: that the value of his predicament is > negative." (Lila, 5) Get it -- ANY PERSON. > > [Arlo] > Except firewalkers and those with no nerve sensations, I suppose. So > again, the "absoluteness" of the quality experience is relative to > the individual. Pirsig's claim here is that the experience of Quality > precedes intellectual concepts, on that I fully agree. If Pirsig is > saying that there are experiences that for all people and for all > time are the same Quality, then I disagree with him. Do you also disagree with following? "Taken by itself that seems obvious enough. But what's not so obvious is that, given a value-centered Metaphysics of Quality, it is absolutely, scientifically moral for a doctor to prefer the patient. This is not just an arbitrary social convention that should apply to some doctors but not to all doctors, or to some cultures but not all cultures. It's true for all people at all times, now and forever, a moral pattern of reality as real as H20." (Lila, 13) > What you call a > "low quality" experience may be a "high quality" experience to > others, including standing on hot, burning coals. And what you call a > "low quality" experience may in fact produce no such "low > quality-ness" to another without the ability to sense pain as others > humans might. Isn't there a great deal of preparation required to stand on hot burning coals without getting burned? > But, I will say, if Pirsig is implying that all humans with similar > biological constucts respond on the biological level to some > inorganic stimuli in more or less the same way, I would agree. Why wouldn't that apply to your standing on hot coals example? > Human > bodies biologically respond to "hunger" the same way (increased > stomach acid, energy deficiencies, etc). Do you mean for all people for all time? > But each bounded organism > has its own unique threshold, its own unique responses, and over time > may come to "experience" hunger along a range of "low quality" to > "high quality" as this inorganic experience becomes mediated by > social and cultural patterns. > > When this monk sets himself on fire in intellectual protest, do you > see any evidence that he perceived his experience to be "low > quality"? (http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V3627) He was probably drugged out of his mind. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
