Hi Horse,
I agree with you. If there is no autonomous self, there is no autonomous self
that has free will, and the talk of moral responsibility and moral laws seems
out-of-place.
Marsha
On Aug 17, 2011, at 7:09 AM, Horse wrote:
> Hi folks
>
> On 17/08/2011 11:20, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>> Marsha, I don't call that rejection, but a warning as to the illusory
>> nature of the autonomous individual self.
>
> What is the difference between an 'autonomous individual self ' and an
> 'autonomous moral agent'? I'm having a hard time seeing any difference at all
> given what's been said so far.
>
> So given my current inability to see where there is an effective difference
> in this discussion:
>
> What is it then that has or expresses free will if not an 'autonomous
> individual self '.
> And if this 'autonomous individual self ' is illusory then the conventional
> way of looking at free will is also illusory.
>
> It seems to me that in all the discussions so far there has been a tendency
> to fall back to the idea that there is an autonomous moral agent ('autonomous
> individual self') who 'has' free will and expresses that free will by making
> free and independent moral choices.
> This doesn't appear to be the case given many of Pirsigs quotes and
> references.
> The overall impression that I get is that the GOF 'Moral Agent' is being
> shoe-horned into the MoQ where it doesn't quite fit!
>
> Horse
>
> --
>
> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
> deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
> — Frank Zappa
>
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