On Sun, August 19, 2007 11:20 am, Timothy Normand Miller said:
> On 8/19/07, Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> It doesn't appear as though Synplify for Lattice will do so.  I get
>> the same timing with 1, 2, or 3 stages of registers after the
>> multiplier and the number of registers in the map report goes up as
>> expected.
> 
> Ok.  That's fine.  We can manually pipeline things as necessary.
> 
>> Is it possible Xilinx doesn't automatically pipeline multipliers in 
>> general, only hard multipliers?  My guess is that they push those 
>> registers during mapping, not during synthesis.
> 
> Yeah.  Somehow, it must mark the registers as movable.  Obviously, it 
> can't affect hard multipliers, but the soft ones can be manipulated.
> 
> Separate from that, there's automatic register balancing.  This is done
> during synthesis (that's when all the messages come out about them being
> moved).  I find this a bit odd because until P&R is done, timings are
> only gross estimates.  This didn't used to be the case when transistors
> dominated circuit delays; but ever since wire delay became dominant,
> physical synthesis has become progressively more necessary.
> 
I don't think wire delay is that much of a problem yet with circuits this
 size if it was an ASIC, either full custom or using a P&R tool (though 
custom is usually a LOT better than using a tool for circuits like ALUs). 
It's easily possible to make ALUs that are much faster and smaller (for 
the given speed) than using a FPGA, and they tend to be transistor delay 
dominated because your logic blocks aren't static and if you do a decent 
job (or your P&R tools aren't crappy) you won't have critical path wires 
that are long. I've only done hand layouts for my circuits up till now, so I am 
naturally quite suspicious of these P&R tools :p


> I would LOVE to be involved in a project that was developing a good Free
> Software physical synthesis tool.  I have the background in AI, so I
> could help develop the algorithms for P&R (on top of the other stuff I
> know about chip design).
> 
> I would be amazed if we couldn't get enough info out of Xilinx and 
> Lattice to be able to target their devices.  Obviously, they'd hold some
> stuff back, but it would come out eventually.  The ideal situation would
> be if we could officially replace their commercial tools because ours
> turned out to be better.  That would take years, but we could manage it.
> Stephen Williams would probably be interested in this.
> 
My university teaches some classes on P&R algorithms, according to a 
friend of mine who took it the algos are not very complex. Don't know if 
that is really true. But i think this is for ASICs, not FPGAs, maybe it's 
harder for FPGAs because there are more restrictions.

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