Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Thomas Wittek]

Damn, forgot the link.

Thomas Wittek schrieb:
> That's mainly what I did as stated in my first post[1]. [...]

[1]:
news://nntp.perl.org:119/[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Thomas Wittek]

Juerd schrieb:
> * Markdown does not have tables.
> * Textile does not have paragraphs in table cells.
> * Kwiki does not have paragraphs in table cells.
> 
> Unless someone comes up with another way to do side-by-side layouts
> (extremely useful for showcasing differences between Perl 5 and Perl 6),
> all of these formats are not suitable.

I suppose doing it the Perl-way: Stealing the best of each syntax,
adding what's missing.

I don't think that we have to choose an existing syntax, but can create
one that combines the best features of the existing ones.

Of course, this would be more work. Probably it will not be easy to get
a common agreement of what's "best". Additionally the mixed up syntax
shouldn't look too inconsistent - but that won't be too hard I think.
Also some restrictions have to be considered. E.g. if we want to allow
"block oriented" parsing (nested blocks in other blocks), the syntax
must be unambiguous on how to detect blocks (within other blocks).

That's mainly what I did as stated in my first post[1]. Look at several
wiki-syntaxes and combine, what _I_ think is the syntax suited best for
a wiki.

And I think that such a (then collaborative) process might be a good
idea for the definition of the syntax of this wiki.

-Thomas

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Thomas Wittek]

Udo Güngerich schrieb:
> Thomas Wittek wrote:
>> Unfortunately you probably have to throw away/heavily modify earlier
>> increments, if you add features like a flexible syntax, which will need
>> a different internal infrastructure.
> 
> Well, if object-oriented design has any advantage at all, here it is!
> [..]
> Only you will have to define the abstract class or plugin bay from the first
> minute in the right way (the "only" was softly ironic).

Of course. But I guess that the architecture/design for such a flexible
piece of software will be relatively complex. I think that creating this
architecture might even take too long to get a running wiki quickly.
Where "quickly" of course is a term still to be defined ;)

-Thomas

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Matt Todd]

I also agree that Object Oriented Design would work wonderfully well
here. The key here is prototyping its shape and then filling in the
details once it has taken this shape.

I like the term 'messages' for methods because it reminds me that the
objects must send requests, forms of communication, to the other
objects. That's always struck me as a great visual help (I'm a visual
learner).

With that in mind, we could full-well begin the structuring of the
project as it pertains to blocks of functionality: a component to
handle visual rendering (whether it include Textile, Markdown,
Wiki-whatever, or all three), data persistence layer (ORM, anybody?),
etc.

I'm sorry if I'm being obnoxiously obvious here, but I like to start
things out simple and I think it would be a good step towards a
product.

For what it's worth,

M.T.

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Udo Güngerich]

Thomas Wittek wrote:

> 
> Good ideas. But maybe we should start a bit smaller ;)
> It might be a good idea to create a list of features separated in
> several increments (releases) to get a running system early.

Absolutely.

> I could imagine increments like "Parsing/Converting", "Storage
> backend/Revision control", "User management", ...
> 
> Unfortunately you probably have to throw away/heavily modify earlier
> increments, if you add features like a flexible syntax, which will need
> a different internal infrastructure.

Well, if object-oriented design has any advantage at all, here it is!

If we design this sort of wiki from the very beginning in a way that you can
just "load" a sort of storage backend, user management, rule engine (per
heritage or plugin-wise) you can start off creating the simplest storage, a
nearly nonexistent usermanagement and a very simple rule engine and just
swap when you've got a better one in stock ;)

Only you will have to define the abstract class or plugin bay from the first
minute in the right way (the "only" was softly ironic).

> But targeting such a "feature monster" will probably take too much
> development time.

I agree heavily. I only propose a flexible object-oriented or otherwise
modular design that enables programmers to weld stuff onto it and plug
other stuff into it and after transformation use it from outside as a
module to do something with it that noone has foreseen...

Ok, forget about the last bit, I'll be content with welding and plugging ;)

> Maybe a "feature complete" version could be targeted as "the"
> Perl6-Wiki-Software.
> But before this one a "Lite Version", which will be used to have a wiki
> quickly available, could be developed.
> 
> -Thomas

Maybe, just to get started, we should use as many perl5-modules as we can
and then substitute them one by one (thinking of CGI, YAML, DBI,
HTML::Template, etc., etc.)

Regards,

Udo
-- 
That which is not good for the bee-hive cannot be good for the bees.

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Ben Morrow]

Quoth [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Juerd):
> 
> * Markdown does not have tables.
> * Textile does not have paragraphs in table cells.
> * Kwiki does not have paragraphs in table cells.
> 
> Unless someone comes up with another way to do side-by-side layouts
> (extremely useful for showcasing differences between Perl 5 and Perl 6),
> all of these formats are not suitable.

This may be a stupid suggestion, but would it not be possible to
create some minimal set of extensions to pod which will do what we need?
Preferably something  rst-like?

Ben

-- 
   If you put all the prophets,   |   You'd have so much more reason
   Mystics and saints |   Than ever was born
   In one room together,  |   Out of all of the conflicts of time.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] The Levellers, 'Believers'

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Juerd]

* Markdown does not have tables.
* Textile does not have paragraphs in table cells.
* Kwiki does not have paragraphs in table cells.

Unless someone comes up with another way to do side-by-side layouts
(extremely useful for showcasing differences between Perl 5 and Perl 6),
all of these formats are not suitable.


Juerd
-- 
http://convolution.nl/maak_juerd_blij.html
http://convolution.nl/make_juerd_happy.html 
http://convolution.nl/gajigu_juerd_n.html

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Hezekiah M. Carty]

On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 10:59 -0400, Matt Todd wrote:

> I particularly like the syntax of Textile or even Markdown (preferring
> the former). In Ruby-land, these exist as RedCloth and BlueCloth. I
> understand porting isn't fun, but I think that this is a viable
> option, if not a great choice.


For what it's worth, there is an existing Textile implementation in
Perl5 (Text::Textile on CPAN), and it seems reasonably functional from
my (very) limited time playing with it.  That should at least ease the
initial porting - or the module could be used as-is (hooray for P5 -> P6
interoperability!), and ported over time.

I'd also like to second the Textile suggestion.  Of the "prepackaged"
wiki syntax styles I've seen, it seems to be one of the cleanest while
still being nicely expressive.

Hez

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Matt Todd]

Iraq invasion indeed wait, shouldn't go there.

I particularly like the syntax of Textile or even Markdown (preferring
the former). In Ruby-land, these exist as RedCloth and BlueCloth. I
understand porting isn't fun, but I think that this is a viable
option, if not a great choice.

Not that this is a great example, but Instiki uses the
Textile/RedCloth syntax for textual formatting.

As an aside, I must apologize for interrupting in a conversation that
I've only been privileged to see the last four responses. I'm
extremely interested in learning Perl6 and in particular seeing this
Wiki come to fruition (if not participating myself).

Thought I'd offer up my suggestion about syntax. I'll wait on
participating more until I've read more of what's already been said.

M.T.

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Daniel Hulme]

> Ask Bj�rn Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Woah, we are getting really far away from talking about perl6
> > here...
> 
> Kind of a usenet law or corollary? "Every discussion about wikis ends

You're being a bit optimistic there, aren't you? The only way you'd end
a my-wiki-is-better-than-yours thread would be to move over to some less
controversial issue, like text editors or the Iraq invasion.

> in a discussion about the best wiki syntax."

-- 
"And I see losing love is like a  window in your heart:  everybody sees 
 you're  blown  apart;  everybody  sees  the  wind  blow  in Graceland."
 -- Paul Simon, 1986 ... I am the Dance Commander, and I order FUN! 
http://surreal.istic.org/ - Installing Windows in your heart since 2003.


pgpA1KyBNJMkc.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Thomas Wittek]

Udo Güngerich schrieb:
> Why not doing a wiki system that does NOT have a fix syntax but rather
> allows defining its syntax rules in e.g. YAML and thus being entirely
> flexible?
> [..]
> It should have a proper user/groups system as well...
> [..]
> Why not give the wiki a web service API [..]

Good ideas. But maybe we should start a bit smaller ;)
It might be a good idea to create a list of features separated in
several increments (releases) to get a running system early.

I could imagine increments like "Parsing/Converting", "Storage
backend/Revision control", "User management", ...

Unfortunately you probably have to throw away/heavily modify earlier
increments, if you add features like a flexible syntax, which will need
a different internal infrastructure.

But targeting such a "feature monster" will probably take too much
development time.

Maybe a "feature complete" version could be targeted as "the"
Perl6-Wiki-Software.
But before this one a "Lite Version", which will be used to have a wiki
quickly available, could be developed.

-Thomas

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Steffen Schwigon]

Ask Bjørn Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Woah, we are getting really far away from talking about perl6
> here...

Kind of a usenet law or corollary? "Every discussion about wikis ends
in a discussion about the best wiki syntax."

Steffen
-- 
Steffen Schwigon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dresden Perl Mongers 

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Udo Güngerich]

Thomas Wittek wrote:

>> Noone other than Mediawiki uses the Mediawiki syntax. I posit
>> that the reason is that that syntax blows chunks.
> 
> I have to agree. 'bold and italic' is definitely not what I
> understand as an intuitive syntax.
 
Hi everyone, 

I'd like to mention that the mediawiki syntax is mainly borrowed from
UseModWiki, which is written in Perl and quite easy to use. I do drive my
own homepage with it (http://www.udo-guengerich.de - and sorry for all the
nasty German on it ;)) and are quite content with it, apart from some small
minor annoyances. The version I use is a patched one with some patches from
myself, it does:

* not care whether people prefer CamelCase or [[Free Links]], because you
can configure it
* execute  tags
(http://www.udo-guengerich.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Die_Password)
* Include files (containing UseModWiki syntax:
http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TextFormattingRules) for enhancing
modularity
* InterWiki-Links
* diff stuff and revision control plus rollback

It is far from being perfect, but it implements some interesting ideas.
Still I found it - using it not as wiki but as mini-CMS for my homepage -
being constricting at some points.

> I did some work on designing an easy wiki syntax for a wiki plugin for
> my (yet another...)[1] webdev framework. I looked at the syntax of
> several wikis and tried to create an easy to write (and to parse)
> syntax: http://gedankenkonstrukt.de/konstrukt/syntax.html

So there came another idea to my mind which I thought you might want to
consider for a possible perl6-wiki that might push advocacy?!

Why not doing a wiki system that does NOT have a fix syntax but rather
allows defining its syntax rules in e.g. YAML and thus being entirely
flexible?
It could be distributed with a default set of rules reflecting the
UseMod/MediaWiki/Markdown syntax, but any versatile computer user could
just as easyly define another ruleset, maybe even for just a subset of
pages (e.g. a code related section where you need less common formatting
stuff and more highlighting).

It should have a proper user/groups system as well...

Another idea was formed by the problem of page renaming, typo correction,
etc., etc.

Why not give the wiki a web service API for being easily able to create bots
without being forced to use libcurl or that kind of thing? Then you could
be able to create whole sections on your website that are automatically
updated, following your rules. (And no, I would not use XML for the
webservice API, rather YAML, because it has a much better data/user data
rario)

> This actually has been implemented and works fine. It's not released yet
> and also not intended to be a base for a perl6-wiki. I'm just posting it
> to suggest a possible syntax. Interestingly it is very similar to
> Markdown although I never heard about it before :)
> 
> Regards,
> -Thomas
> 
> [1]: I believe everyone has to build one on its own ;)

I can share this believe ;)

Regards,

Udo
-- 
That which is not good for the bee-hive cannot be good for the bees.

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Ask Bjørn Hansen]

Woah, we are getting really far away from talking about perl6 here...


 - ask

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Thomas Wittek]

A. Pagaltzis schrieb:
> * Thomas Wittek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-06-03 22:30]:
>> Interestingly it is very similar to Markdown although I never
>> heard about it before :)
> 
> Hmm, it doesn’t look similar at all to me?

Headers (Markdown):
# This is an H1
## This is an H2
## This is an H6

Headers (/me):
= This is an H1
== This is an H2
== This is an H6

Lists (Markdown):
*   Red
*   Green
*   Blue

Liste (/me):
*   Red
*   Green
*   Blue

Code (Markdown):
This is a normal paragraph:

This is a code block.

Code (/me):
This is a normal paragraph:

This is a code block.

Horizontal Rules (Markdown):
-

Horizontal Rules (/me):
-

Emphasis (Markdown):
e.g. *single asterisks*

Emphasis (/me):
*single asterisks*

There are of course many cases where the syntax differs, but only I said
that they are similar, not identical ;) Especially the linking differs
from my syntax.

> Not even superficially
> similar, but most importantly, it looks line-based. Markdown is
> block-based. If you want another example of block-based, take a
> look at the new-style PhpWiki markup. These let you do things
> like put a code block inside a blockquote within a list item, or
> heck, even things as simple as multi-paragraph list items.
> Mediawiki markup, like many other wiki syntaxes, can’t express
> that. Yours doesn’t look like it can either.

No, (currently) blocks cannot be nested.
Blocks are separated by >=1 newlines and consist of only one type of the
ones listed in
http://gedankenkonstrukt.de/konstrukt/syntax.html#BLOCK_SYNTAX. I only
wanted to cover the most common formatting cases. It's far from being
feature-complete and not intended to be a full-sized wiki-system.

Bye,
-Thomas

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[A. Pagaltzis]

* Thomas Wittek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-06-03 22:30]:
> Interestingly it is very similar to Markdown although I never
> heard about it before :)

Hmm, it doesn’t look similar at all to me? Not even superficially
similar, but most importantly, it looks line-based. Markdown is
block-based. If you want another example of block-based, take a
look at the new-style PhpWiki markup. These let you do things
like put a code block inside a blockquote within a list item, or
heck, even things as simple as multi-paragraph list items.
Mediawiki markup, like many other wiki syntaxes, can’t express
that. Yours doesn’t look like it can either.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // 

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Thomas Wittek]

A. Pagaltzis schrieb:
> * Amir E. Aharoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-05-28 23:00]:
>> The popularity of Wikipedia made Media-Wiki syntax the de-facto
>> standard. It's not perfect, but please don't reinvent the wheel
>> (even though it's a PHP wheel).
> [..]
> Noone other than Mediawiki uses the Mediawiki syntax. I posit
> that the reason is that that syntax blows chunks.

I have to agree. 'bold and italic' is definitely not what I
understand as an intuitive syntax.

I did some work on designing an easy wiki syntax for a wiki plugin for
my (yet another...)[1] webdev framework. I looked at the syntax of
several wikis and tried to create an easy to write (and to parse)
syntax: http://gedankenkonstrukt.de/konstrukt/syntax.html

This actually has been implemented and works fine. It's not released yet
and also not intended to be a base for a perl6-wiki. I'm just posting it
to suggest a possible syntax. Interestingly it is very similar to
Markdown although I never heard about it before :)

Regards,
-Thomas

[1]: I believe everyone has to build one on its own ;)

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Andy_Bach]

How about something a little less  mercenary - a 1000$ donation to the 
Perl Foundation/Perl 6 development in the winner's name from Athena Labs? 
Might take out some of the difficulty and, who knows, get you a better 
wiki (you know, the less immediately reward driven programmer or something 
;-).  That way the money stuff stays out of the the foundation's hair, so 
to speak.

I imagine a donation of 1000$ could get you an autographed Camel or Aoudad 
or something ...

a

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5932

"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system
 of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the
 masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."
 -- Dennis - Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Fagyal Csongor]

Hi,


Hi Conrad,

I run the grant committee for the Perl Foundation and I sit on the steering 
committee, so I suppose I can discuss your proposal (there are some other TPF 
folk here, too, so that's why this is a public email).  Also, the following 
stuff is just off the top of my head and is in no way official.

For TPF to handle something like this, we'd have to have some agreement on what the specs are, who would judge whether or not a Wiki met the specs and what to do if there were timing concerns (if we get one Wiki before another even the the later one was sent first, who wins?)  


Oh my, this is getting complicated :)


Also, though I hate to be a spoilsport and bring this up, I'm really not sure 
what legal issues might be involved with running a contest, either.  Would that 
be considered a form of gambling and possibly be illegal?  I don't think so, 
but I'm not sure.
 


Well, it cannot be gambling. IMHO something constitutes to gambling only if:
- the outcome (who wins/loses) is mostly controlled by chance
- you have to pay in order to participate
Both should hold and none holds.

However, there might be taxing issues...


In any event, if you can come up with a solid set of contest rules, TPF can 
consider whether or not we can officially run the contest.  It sounds like a 
nice idea, I just don't know what's involved.
 



If I had some mone to spare for a contest like this, I would say: "I 
have the money so I make the rules" :) Some might not like that, but it 
makes things much less complicated. It's Conrad's money and his generous 
gesture. I would say let him decide who makes the specification and let 
him name the winner, according to the rules he comes up with. Those who 
will be unhappy with the result can always STFU, don't they? ;)



Of course if the community can make this happen is a nice and 
"controlled" way, that would be the best. I just like pragmatism :))


- Fagzal

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Ask Bjørn Hansen]

On Jun 1, 2006, at 6:45, Ovid wrote:

In any event, if you can come up with a solid set of contest rules,  
TPF can consider whether or not we can officially run the contest.   
It sounds like a nice idea, I just don't know what's involved.


I wouldn't claim to entirely comprehend the rules, but I think  
there's something in the 501c rules about not taking money for  
specific purposes too.



 - ask

--
http://www.askbjoernhansen.com/

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Ovid]

Hi Conrad,

I run the grant committee for the Perl Foundation and I sit on the steering 
committee, so I suppose I can discuss your proposal (there are some other TPF 
folk here, too, so that's why this is a public email).  Also, the following 
stuff is just off the top of my head and is in no way official.

For TPF to handle something like this, we'd have to have some agreement on what 
the specs are, who would judge whether or not a Wiki met the specs and what to 
do if there were timing concerns (if we get one Wiki before another even the 
the later one was sent first, who wins?)  Also, though I hate to be a 
spoilsport and bring this up, I'm really not sure what legal issues might be 
involved with running a contest, either.  Would that be considered a form of 
gambling and possibly be illegal?  I don't think so, but I'm not sure.

In any event, if you can come up with a solid set of contest rules, TPF can 
consider whether or not we can officially run the contest.  It sounds like a 
nice idea, I just don't know what's involved.

Cheers,
Ovid
 
-- If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send 
follow up questions to the list.
 
Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

- Original Message 
From: Conrad Schneiker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: perl6-users@perl.org
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:00:51 AM
Subject: RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

Does anyone out there have any phone numbers for key contacts at The
Perl Foundation that you could send to me off-list? So far, I've not
heard back from anyone there. TIA.

Best regards,
Conrad Schneiker

http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6_Users_FAQ (Moved from AthenaLab to Perl
6 Wiki.)

www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam
technology.)

From: Conrad Schneiker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 2:35 PM
> From: Conrad Schneiker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 2:35 PM
> To: 'perl6-users@perl.org'
> Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Nathan Eady'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]';
> '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
> 
> OK, Im sold on a Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6aka the (Perl 6)
> **2 Wiki.
> 
> However, I want it now!
> 
> So Im offering to post a $1,000 prize (The AthenaLab The 1st
> Extreme Leverage Prize for Perl 6), to be awarded to the person
> that delivers the first (Perl 6)**2 Wiki that meets some moderate
> specifications.
> 
> Heres what I currently have in mind.
> 
> The prize money would be held in escrow by The Perl Foundation
> (*IF* they are willing to handle this). The Perl Foundation would
> decide when a prize claimant had adequately realized the
> specifications. (Entries must be announced on perl.perl6.users.
> To facilitate collaboration, the designated winner may request
> that the prize be split up and distributed among up-to-10 cohorts
> or charities, with names and amounts to be publicly specified in
> advance on perl.perl6.users.)
> 
> The specifications for the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki would be determined
> (and posted to perl.perl6.users) by @Larry (*IF* they are willing
> to handle this). One of the reasons for wanting @Larry to handle
> the specification for this prize is my presumption that they best
> know what is presently (or soon will be) reasonable to
> implement. Perl 6 means Pugs + Parrot for purposes of this prize.
> (However, if @Larry recommends s/Parrot/Perl5/ for now, thats
> also OK with me.) Practically usable minimalism and the (
> http://www.perldesignpatterns.com/?TinyWiki) approach of starting
> with the simplest (working) thing possible is fine. The aim is
> not to impress with world with the first implementation, but
> rather to initiate a self-sustaining chain reaction of
> improvement that will much later (a year from now) impress the
> world with the cumulative rate of progress.
> 
> The license must be whatever the prevailing license was for the
> Pugs (Perl 6 core) svn source tree is at the time the prize is
> claimed. The source code would be added to the examples or
> cookbook section of the Pugs source tree. (Details to be
> determined by @Larry.)
> 
> The contestant (or contestants) are encouraged to seek help and
> feedback on public forums. Just be up-front about it. Taking the
> initiative needed to deliver the result is what is being
> rewarded, not doing it on your own.
> 
> The (Perl 6)**2 Wiki must be installed and demonstrated on
> Feather, Juerds Perl 6 development server (*IF* this is OK with
> him, and if he can arrange for www.perl6.nl to go to the new
> Wiki, *UNLESS* the Perl Foundation wants to host the main Wiki,
> 

RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Conrad Schneiker]

Does anyone out there have any phone numbers for key contacts at The
Perl Foundation that you could send to me off-list? So far, I've not
heard back from anyone there. TIA.

Best regards,
Conrad Schneiker

http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6_Users_FAQ (Moved from AthenaLab to Perl
6 Wiki.)

www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam
technology.)

From: Conrad Schneiker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 2:35 PM
> From: Conrad Schneiker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 2:35 PM
> To: 'perl6-users@perl.org'
> Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Nathan Eady'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]';
> '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6
> 
> OK, I’m sold on a Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6—aka the (Perl 6)
> **2 Wiki.
> 
> However, I want it now!
> 
> So I’m offering to post a $1,000 prize (The AthenaLab “The 1st
> Extreme Leverage Prize” for Perl 6), to be awarded to the person
> that delivers the first (Perl 6)**2 Wiki that meets some moderate
> specifications.
> 
> Here’s what I currently have in mind.
> 
> The prize money would be held in escrow by The Perl Foundation
> (*IF* they are willing to handle this). The Perl Foundation would
> decide when a prize claimant had adequately realized the
> specifications. (Entries must be announced on perl.perl6.users.
> To facilitate collaboration, the designated winner may request
> that the prize be split up and distributed among up-to-10 cohorts
> or charities, with names and amounts to be publicly specified in
> advance on perl.perl6.users.)
> 
> The specifications for the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki would be determined
> (and posted to perl.perl6.users) by @Larry (*IF* they are willing
> to handle this). One of the reasons for wanting @Larry to handle
> the specification for this prize is my presumption that they best
> know what is presently (or soon will be) “reasonable” to
> implement. Perl 6 means Pugs + Parrot for purposes of this prize.
> (However, if @Larry recommends s/Parrot/Perl5/ for now, that’s
> also OK with me.) “Practically usable minimalism” and the (
> http://www.perldesignpatterns.com/?TinyWiki) approach of starting
> with “the simplest (working) thing possible” is fine. The aim is
> not to impress with world with the first implementation, but
> rather to initiate a self-sustaining chain reaction of
> improvement that will much later (a year from now) impress the
> world with the cumulative rate of progress.
> 
> The license must be whatever the prevailing license was for the
> Pugs (Perl 6 core) svn source tree is at the time the prize is
> claimed. The source code would be added to the examples or
> cookbook section of the Pugs source tree. (Details to be
> determined by @Larry.)
> 
> The contestant (or contestants) are encouraged to seek help and
> feedback on public forums. Just be up-front about it. Taking the
> initiative needed to deliver the result is what is being
> rewarded, not doing it on your own.
> 
> The (Perl 6)**2 Wiki must be installed and demonstrated on
> Feather, Juerd’s Perl 6 development server (*IF* this is OK with
> him, and if he can arrange for www.perl6.nl to go to the new
> Wiki, *UNLESS* the Perl Foundation wants to host the main Wiki,
> in which case Feather would still be used for further Wiki
> prototyping and development.).
> 
> We’ll need a volunteer to serve as the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki sysadmin,
> once it comes online. If no one else steps forward, I’d volunteer
> to serve as the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki moderator for any (hopefully
> very rare) cases of content issues. (I’d prefer that the Perl
> Foundation or Perl Mongers took responsibility for these things,
> but I don’t want to ask for too much at the outset. To minimize
> disputes and churning, I suspect the eventually-high-demand home
> page should be restricted to moderator-only updating.)
> 
> Best regards,
> Conrad Schneiker
> 
> www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm
> 
> www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam technology.)
>

RE: P6U FAQ on PerlNet (was Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6)

[Conrad Schneiker]

> From: Paul Fenwick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:28 PM
[...]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Spent much of the day fighting
windoze insanity. If not for a certain other $commitment, I probably
be shopping for a Mac about now. :-)

> Conrad Schneiker wrote:
> 
> > I certainly agree. However, someone has to take the initiative to
> actually
> > start using (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6), and to post links
> back here
> > for others to follow up on. Will that person be you? :-) I'm all
> for using
> > that wiki to compile important Perl 6 content now, so that there
> will be
> > plenty of good material on hand for the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki.
> 
> Working on that now.  ;)

Wonderful!

> > I'm long on enthusiasm, but very low on tuits at the moment (hence
> the
> > prize), but if someone ports the contents of
> > (www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm) to the above wiki, I'll
> replace the
> > above page with a "Perl 6 Users FAQ has become absorbed by a much
> better
> > Perl 6 wiki" link.

Page changed.

> Done!  See http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6_Users_FAQ .  It's still a
> little rough
> at the moment, I'm working on fixing the remaining bits of poor
> mark-up, and
> improving inter and intra-document linkage.  However don't let that
> stop you (or
> any P6U members) from adjusting the FAQ as required.

Fantastic. That's much more readable than the original. 

Thanks much!

> Am I correct that the P6U FAQ can also be multi-licensed under the
> CC-Attribution-ShareAlike license, as well as the prevailing P6/Pugs
> license?

AFAIK. That's certainly fine with me in any case.

Best regards,

Conrad Schneiker

www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm

www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam
technology.)

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Juerd]

Darren Duncan skribis 2006-05-28 14:37 (-0700):
> For one thing, I'm assuming that a prize-qualifying solution won't be 
> able to link-in legacy Perl 5 modules using Pugs' "use perl5:Foo" 
> syntax; to do so would look bad if we are wanting to show off a Wiki 
> solution using the NEW technology.

I'm assuming re-using code is okay, as long as it's pre-existing.

It would be a good idea to create Perl 6 wrappers around them, so that
once a Perl 6 implementation is good enough for doing it in Perl 6, code
can be migrated easily.

> Therefore, if this Wiki is going to be made sooner rather than later, 
> what are we going to use for a storage engine?

Well, since storage needs support for revisions, I'm all for re-using
open source industry standards like svk or svn.

Initially, the command line tools can be wrapped around. Later, native
support can be built.


Juerd
-- 
http://convolution.nl/maak_juerd_blij.html
http://convolution.nl/make_juerd_happy.html 
http://convolution.nl/gajigu_juerd_n.html

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Juerd]

Amir E. Aharoni skribis 2006-05-28 22:54 (+0200):
> It's funny - i was the first one who proposed the wiki idea and i
> didn't think that it will go so far (1000$$$). If you ask me, this
> wiki should be done ASAP in Media-Wiki. Reusing current Perl wikis
> (Australian, whatever) is even better. Perl6 currently needs
> documentation, community and advocacy - not a Yet Another Content
> Management System written in itself. It is unlikely that it will
> become Perl6's killer app with such a strong competition.

I disagree, for reasons detailed in perl6-language.


Juerd
-- 
http://convolution.nl/maak_juerd_blij.html
http://convolution.nl/make_juerd_happy.html 
http://convolution.nl/gajigu_juerd_n.html

P6U FAQ on PerlNet (was Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6)

[Paul Fenwick]

G'day Conrad, Amir, and P6U,

Conrad Schneiker wrote:

> I certainly agree. However, someone has to take the initiative to actually
> start using (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6), and to post links back here
> for others to follow up on. Will that person be you? :-) I'm all for using
> that wiki to compile important Perl 6 content now, so that there will be
> plenty of good material on hand for the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki. 

Working on that now.  ;)

> I'm long on enthusiasm, but very low on tuits at the moment (hence the
> prize), but if someone ports the contents of
> (www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm) to the above wiki, I'll replace the
> above page with a "Perl 6 Users FAQ has become absorbed by a much better
> Perl 6 wiki" link. 

Done!  See http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6_Users_FAQ .  It's still a little rough
at the moment, I'm working on fixing the remaining bits of poor mark-up, and
improving inter and intra-document linkage.  However don't let that stop you (or
any P6U members) from adjusting the FAQ as required.

Am I correct that the P6U FAQ can also be multi-licensed under the
CC-Attribution-ShareAlike license, as well as the prevailing P6/Pugs license?

Cheerio,

Paul

-- 
Paul Fenwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | http://perltraining.com.au/
Director of Training   | Ph:  +61 3 9354 6001
Perl Training Australia| Fax: +61 3 9354 2681

RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Conrad Schneiker]

> From: Darren Duncan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 2:38 PM
[...]
> For one thing, I'm assuming that a prize-qualifying solution won't be
> able to link-in legacy Perl 5 modules using Pugs' "use perl5:Foo"
> syntax; to do so would look bad if we are wanting to show off a Wiki
> solution using the NEW technology.

That will be up to @Larry to decide. "Non-trivial" Perl 6 content seems
obviously desirable, but it's not obvious to me what the reasonable criteria
for that might be. (That's another reason for deferring specifications to
wiser and better-informed people.)

Using legacy Perl 5 modules is an important Perl 6 capability for a great
many people, and it may actually be a very good thing to show off. 

Best regards,
Conrad Schneiker

www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm

www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology.)

RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Conrad Schneiker]

> -Original Message-
> From: Amir E. Aharoni [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 1:54 PM
[...]
> It's funny - i was the first one who proposed the wiki idea and i
> didn't think that it will go so far (1000$$$). If you ask me, this
> wiki should be done ASAP in Media-Wiki. Reusing current Perl wikis
> (Australian, whatever) is even better.

I certainly agree. However, someone has to take the initiative to actually
start using (http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6), and to post links back here
for others to follow up on. Will that person be you? :-) I'm all for using
that wiki to compile important Perl 6 content now, so that there will be
plenty of good material on hand for the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki. 

I'm long on enthusiasm, but very low on tuits at the moment (hence the
prize), but if someone ports the contents of
(www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm) to the above wiki, I'll replace the
above page with a "Perl 6 Users FAQ has become absorbed by a much better
Perl 6 wiki" link. 

> Perl6 currently needs
> documentation, community and advocacy - not a Yet Another Content
> Management System written in itself. 

I don't see these as mutually exclusive. Especially since other people
clearly regard such a prospective Perl 6 system as a powerful form of
advocacy, as an important piece of documentation for the Perl 6 Cookbook,
and as a community-building venture.

Also, it's really up to others who do the actual work to decide what they
find interesting or important enough to work on, given their interests and
motivation. It's not for me to dictate to others what they should or
shouldn't be doing. Perl 6 development has really taken off over the last
year or so in part because people were encouraged to pursue -Ofun, rather
than being told what they should be doing. Of all the crazy things, whoever
thought that what Perl 6 really needed was a pathetically primitive
prototype in some arcane language like Haskell? :-)

> It is unlikely that it will
> become Perl6's killer app with such a strong competition.

Near-to-medium term, you're almost certainly correct. The long term is a
different matter. But I think this is a tangential issue.

There are more important {near-to-medium term and non-competitive} roles
(pun intended) that the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki could play. (1) It can serve as a
wide-participation "eat your own dog food" prototype. (2) As new Perl 6
features become available, refactoring the prototype into a more pluggable
architecture (among other things) could provide many opportunities for
trying out new Perl 6 capabilities (including the use of production Perl 5
modules). (3) As the primary Perl 6 wiki, we have the option of adding
features that might be particularly useful for (say) generating Perl {user,
release, module, distribution, and so on} documentation without going
through the usual {POD editing, svn updating, HTML generating} processes,
resulting in {wider participation and greater productivity}, relative to
existing systems. (4) Eventually, this can serve as the nucleus of a
generalized Wiki-counterpart and analog of {CPAN, Perl Monks sorts of
forums, developer blogs, and so on}. Parts of it might eventually
incrementally morph into the first viable "semantic web".

And again, the most important factor for many people is -Ofun. I've even
resigned myself to it. :-)

Best regards,
Conrad Schneiker
 
www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm

www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology.)

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Sebastian]

> 
> Noone other than Mediawiki uses the Mediawiki syntax. I posit
> that the reason is that that syntax blows chunks.

Actually dokuwiki uses an almost the exact same syntax as mediawiki..
except they invert the headers (== foo == stuff).

as for a perl6 wiki.. I agree that there are already many many wiki's
outthere the ones I like most noted above (media and doku), since I
really like the syntax. but also both of them are written in php and as
far as I've seen the code.. not particulary beautiful (ok dokuwiki is
plain ugly but functional, mediawiki somewhat hard with major upgrades)
and I dislike all perl wiki's I've seen. so IMHO there still is a
market.
on top of that.. some good clear visible code like with a wiki, would do
the perl6 project good for news and momentum (and a php wiki would just
look really bad i think).

as for specs.. ofcourse I'm no [at]larry, but I'd like to see something
that is lightweight and flexible in design.

my 2ct,

Sebastian S

> 
> Regards,
> -- 
> Aristotle Pagaltzis // 

-- 
[URL: http://web.expr42.net/]
[Unique ID: Sun May 28 23:23:17 CEST 2006 (36)]

RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Conrad Schneiker]

> From: Juerd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 3:55 AM
[...]
> Conrad Schneiker skribis 2006-05-27 14:34 (-0700):
> > So I'm offering to post a $1,000 prize (The AthenaLab "The 1st Extreme
> > Leverage Prize" for Perl 6), to be awarded to the person that delivers
> > the
> > first (Perl 6)**2 Wiki that meets some moderate specifications.
> 
> Wow! Thanks for doing the world this favour.

And thank you for bringing the idea to my attention--repeatedly. It took a
while for me to have a "revelation of the obvious", and see the many
potentially useful side-effects of such a pilot project.

Best regards,
Conrad Schneiker
 
www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm

www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology.)

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[A. Pagaltzis]

* Darren Duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-05-28 23:40]:
> For one thing, I'm assuming that a prize-qualifying solution
> won't be able to link-in legacy Perl 5 modules using Pugs' "use
> perl5:Foo" syntax; to do so would look bad if we are wanting to
> show off a Wiki solution using the NEW technology.

I’d think it a fine technology demonstration to show how you can
actually, *in practice*, write an application in a dynamic
language that relies on libraries in another dynamic language,
particularly when it lets you use a library for something for
which none are (yet) available in your native language.

“We had a working webapp in Perl 6 before anyone even ported a
CGI parameter parser to it!” How’s *that* for R.A.D.

> No Perl 6 RDBMS interface or implementation is ready yet, nor
> will it likely be for some time.

Use Parrot NCI to wrap SQLite? More cross-language library reuse…
:-)  I don’t know enough about the state of Pugs and Parrot to
know if this is feasible yet, though.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // 

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Darren Duncan]

I'm wondering about some implementation logistics.

For one thing, I'm assuming that a prize-qualifying solution won't be 
able to link-in legacy Perl 5 modules using Pugs' "use perl5:Foo" 
syntax; to do so would look bad if we are wanting to show off a Wiki 
solution using the NEW technology.


Therefore, if this Wiki is going to be made sooner rather than later, 
what are we going to use for a storage engine?


No Perl 6 RDBMS interface or implementation is ready yet, nor will it 
likely be for some time.  Such is what larger scale Wikis use.


So is this initial Wiki going to use a folder hierarchy of flat 
files, or a big YAML file, or something?  This is fine for an initial 
version, of course, that is just showing things off, though it may be 
more difficult to scale.


Perhaps v1 of the Wiki will use YAML or flat files, and v2 an RDBMS.

Or is something more interesting on the horizon, like perhaps an RDF storage?

-- Darren Duncan

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[A. Pagaltzis]

* Amir E. Aharoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-05-28 23:00]:
> The popularity of Wikipedia made Media-Wiki syntax the de-facto
> standard. It's not perfect, but please don't reinvent the wheel
> (even though it's a PHP wheel).

I plead not guilty.

Markdown is nothing new, and it has half a dozen implementations
in multiple languages already (the canonical one is written in
Perl 5, btw). It is very popular in the weblog world, but because
the implementations are not tied to a particular webapp, it gets
used in many other contexts as well. I write all of my plaintext
files in Markdown; which isn’t saying much, because the syntax
very much looks just like email.

Noone other than Mediawiki uses the Mediawiki syntax. I posit
that the reason is that that syntax blows chunks.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // 

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Beep beep. I, for example, hate the verbosity of html, but i use it
nevertheless. The popularity of Wikipedia made Media-Wiki syntax the
de-facto standard. It's not perfect, but please don't reinvent the
wheel (even though it's a PHP wheel).

It's funny - i was the first one who proposed the wiki idea and i
didn't think that it will go so far (1000$$$). If you ask me, this
wiki should be done ASAP in Media-Wiki. Reusing current Perl wikis
(Australian, whatever) is even better. Perl6 currently needs
documentation, community and advocacy - not a Yet Another Content
Management System written in itself. It is unlikely that it will
become Perl6's killer app with such a strong competition.

As for CamelCase - it's long dead. Now, writing a Perl6 app to find
and exterminate [[random links]] would be neat (although it would
probably be a one-liner).

On 5/28/06, A. Pagaltzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

* Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-05-28 19:35]:
> - MediaWiki-compatible syntax

I hate the Mediawiki syntax. Can we have something that
understands blocks, like Markdown? Just add [[foo]] as intrawiki
link syntax.

>   - Most \W characters can be safely used

Yeah, that is true for Markdown.

>   - Package names (CamelCase) can be used without them being
> transformed into links

I find CamelCaseLinking annoying as well. However, I do like how
it seems to gently guide people into picking NounsAsPageNames,
whereas random contributors tend [[to make really stupid]]
choices when given free-form links only. Good tools (page
renaming etc.) can help steer against that, but CamelCaseLinking
makes it less necessary to take corrective action in the first
place. However, it's also just plain damn ugly. :-/

Regards,
--
Aristotle Pagaltzis // 




--
Amir Elisha Aharoni, http://aharoni.blogspot.com/
"We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace." - Thurston Moore
__
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[A. Pagaltzis]

* Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-05-28 19:35]:
> - MediaWiki-compatible syntax

I hate the Mediawiki syntax. Can we have something that
understands blocks, like Markdown? Just add [[foo]] as intrawiki
link syntax.

>   - Most \W characters can be safely used

Yeah, that is true for Markdown.

>   - Package names (CamelCase) can be used without them being
> transformed into links

I find CamelCaseLinking annoying as well. However, I do like how
it seems to gently guide people into picking NounsAsPageNames,
whereas random contributors tend [[to make really stupid]]
choices when given free-form links only. Good tools (page
renaming etc.) can help steer against that, but CamelCaseLinking
makes it less necessary to take corrective action in the first
place. However, it’s also just plain damn ugly. :-/

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // 

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Juerd]

Conrad Schneiker skribis 2006-05-27 14:34 (-0700):
> So I'm offering to post a $1,000 prize (The AthenaLab "The 1st Extreme
> Leverage Prize" for Perl 6), to be awarded to the person that delivers the
> first (Perl 6)**2 Wiki that meets some moderate specifications. 

Wow! Thanks for doing the world this favour.

> The specifications for the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki would be determined (and posted
> to perl.perl6.users) by @Larry (*IF* they are willing to handle this).

I !~ @Larry, but I have some specs in mind that can perhaps inspire
@Larry:

- MediaWiki-compatible syntax
  - Most \W characters can be safely used
  - Package names (CamelCase) can be used without them being transformed
into links
- Revision support with web based diffs and rollback
  - Implement an svk frontend?
- Page hit for a moderately sized page should take no longer than 5
seconds
  - Modularity is nice, but usability is more important
  - Current Perl 6 implementations are still rather slow
  - Use mod_pugs?
- Must be packaged for CPAN

And some non-spec thoughts:

- Think about forward compatibility
  - Especially when it comes to syntax
- Implement a tagging system (better than Categories)
- Get someone with good design fu to design the graphical stuff
  - And use templates
  - Maybe just use the wikipedia layout
  - Many Perl people are bad at graphical design, without realising it.
This wiki will be the first Perl 6 impression for many.
- Make pages cacheable
  - Prepare for slashdot (not really... :))
  - Perl 6 implementations are still slow
- Support ";" as well as "&" in URIs

> The (Perl 6)**2 Wiki must be installed and demonstrated on Feather, Juerd's
> Perl 6 development server (*IF* this is OK with him, and if he can arrange
> for www.perl6.nl   to go to the new Wiki, ...)

Feather is of course available for this challenge. Contestants who don't
currently have an account, can request one by sending me an email (not
via the mailing list, please).

Once the wiki is finished (when the $1000 have been awarded), perl6.nl,
www.perl6.nl, is available to host the wiki.


Cheers,

Juerd
-- 
http://convolution.nl/maak_juerd_blij.html
http://convolution.nl/make_juerd_happy.html 
http://convolution.nl/gajigu_juerd_n.html

RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Conrad Schneiker]

> From: Michael Mathews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 12:25 AM
[...]
> On 27/05/06, Conrad Schneiker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > So I'm offering to post a $1,000 prize (The AthenaLab "The 1st Extreme
> > Leverage Prize" for Perl 6), to be awarded to the person that delivers
> > the
> > first (Perl 6)**2 Wiki that meets some moderate specifications.
[...]
> Now would that be New Zealand Dollars or...?  :-)

USDs. 

(Hmm. Maybe I should have checked exchange rates before answering.)

> I think this will certainly encourage activity but I hope it doesn't
> make things so competitive that us average folks won't have a chance
> to contribute to the work. 

If things do turn out to be *that* competitive, then it's likely that Perl 6
is seriously threatened by an imminent stampede of early-adapters, and is
probably inescapably doomed to an awesome future. 

> I would love to help in whatever small ways
> I can. Hopefully everyone who wants to will be able to give something
> to the project. 

I sort of hope so too, which is partly why I encouraged the use of public
forums to get assistance. However, for some people, competition is -Ofun. If
they prevail in this endeavor, that's also OK with me. 

I'm *very* much *more* interested in the *next* wave of collaborative
projects that the (Perl 6)**2 Wiki can more {readily, powerfully}
facilitate. I allude to some of these possibilities in
(www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm).) In case you weren't wondering
about it, "Extreme Leverage" in the name of the prize reflects this
perspective.

> Is it too late to add a requirement that the
> "solution" be architected to allow for modular expansion? I mean that
> it can easily be added to with plug-ins (for example). That way even
> those who don't work on the core can still add expansion code.

Good ideas, but I'll leave the specifications up to @Larry (or designated
proxies thereof). 

Once something useful is running, there should be endless opportunities for
{refactoring, upgrading, generalizing, customizing}. As long as there are no
external Wiki features that somehow preclude a reasonable content-migration
path, then AFAIK, the internals of the first system could be pretty kludgy
without precluding fairly rapid evolution towards increasingly {elegant,
powerful} architectural "best practices".

> Also I'm volunteering now for whatever anyone needs -- I'll waive the
> money if that's gonna stop you from accepting my help. :)

I like that attitude. Coincidentally, I'm waving the money too--as in waving
it goodbye. But if the Perl 6 Users FAQ is even half-right about the future
prospects of Perl 6, then this investment should have a wonderful long-term
ROI. Hopefully some other people will think and do likewise. 

Best regards,
Conrad Schneiker
 
www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm

www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam and micro-neutron-beam technology.)

Re: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Michael Mathews]

On 27/05/06, Conrad Schneiker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

So I'm offering to post a $1,000 prize (The AthenaLab "The 1st Extreme
Leverage Prize" for Perl 6), to be awarded to the person that delivers the
first (Perl 6)**2 Wiki that meets some moderate specifications.


Now would that be New Zealand Dollars or...?  :-)

I think this will certainly encourage activity but I hope it doesn't
make things so competitive that us average folks won't have a chance
to contribute to the work. I would love to help in whatever small ways
I can. Hopefully everyone who wants to will be able to give something
to the project. Is it too late to add a requirement that the
"solution" be architected to allow for modular expansion? I mean that
it can easily be added to with plug-ins (for example). That way even
those who don't work on the core can still add expansion code.

Also I'm volunteering now for whatever anyone needs -- I'll waive the
money if that's gonna stop you from accepting my help. :)

--michael

RE: $1,000 prize for Perl 6 Wiki written in Perl 6

[Conrad Schneiker]

Oops, I somehow overlooked including this intriguing item from an earlier
post:

> From: Ovid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> On a related note, if anyone does want to build a P6 Wiki, you might
> consider building it on top of WWW::Kontent
> (http://search.cpan.org/dist/WWW-Kontent/), a Perl6 CMS (Content
> Management System) that BrentDax wrote.

The only issue might be compatibility with whatever license Pugs is
currently using.

Best regards,
Conrad Schneiker
 
www.athenalab.com/Perl_6_Users_FAQ.htm

www.AthenaLab.com (Nano-electron-beam technology.)