[AI] Scribe guidelines for IGNOU Examination

[आकाश गुप्ता Akash Gupta]

Dear friends,

Please share scribe guidelines for ignou examination.


-- 
सधन्यवाद / With Regards,
आकाश गुप्ता / Akash Gupta

-- 
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..


Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"AccessIndia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CAPi5TqHbO%3D3kCH1U-XV_ZH7T-iDiv80YFvDawic4rfO1TsTnbw%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines for Swayam Examination 2019- reg

[sanjeev kumar]

What is this exam please eloborate

On Mon, 13 May 2019, 7:06 p.m. Marisport A 
> Dear friend,
> I have recently attended ARPT exam through SWAYAM.
>
> I have not received any scribe guidelines .
>
> However, NTA which is the nodal agency which conducts the exam has
> provided me the scribe and compensatory time.
>
> to avail scribe, at the time of filling your application you should
> mentioned that you required scribe.
>
> I have attended the ARPT exam on 30/3/2019.
>
> If You may contact SWAYAM helpline number for any assistance too.
>
> Regards,
> Marisport.A
>
>
> Regards,
> Marisport.A
>
> On 5/13/19, upender kushwaha  wrote:
> > On 5/13/19, Uma VR  wrote:
> >> Friends,
> >>
> >> Does anyone has applied for Swayam examination 2019?
> >> Have you received scribe guidelines for the same?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Believe in WORK not in LUCK! & Most of all, trust in God but don't be
> >> dependent on Him.
> >>
> >>
> >> Search for old postings at:
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe send a message to
> >> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> >> with the subject unsubscribe.
> >>
> >> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
> >> please
> >> visit the list home page at
> >>
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
> >>
> >>
> >> Disclaimer:
> >> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking
of
> >> the
> >> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its
veracity;
> >>
> >> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the
> >> mails
> >> sent through this mailing list..
> >>
> >>
> >
> > hello good after noon sir, please send me. scribe guidelines ok thanks
> >
> >
> > Search for old postings at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a message to
> > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> > with the subject unsubscribe.
> >
> > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
please
> > visit the list home page at
> >
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
> >
> >
> > Disclaimer:
> > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking
of the
> > person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
> >
> > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the
mails
> > sent through this mailing list..
> >
> >
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
please visit the list home page at
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the
mails sent through this mailing list..
>
Celebrating Global accessibility Awareness day- May 16 2019



Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines for Swayam Examination 2019- reg

[Marisport A]

Dear friend,
I have recently attended ARPT exam through SWAYAM.

I have not received any scribe guidelines .

However, NTA which is the nodal agency which conducts the exam has
provided me the scribe and compensatory time.

to avail scribe, at the time of filling your application you should
mentioned that you required scribe.

I have attended the ARPT exam on 30/3/2019.

If You may contact SWAYAM helpline number for any assistance too.

Regards,
Marisport.A


Regards,
Marisport.A

On 5/13/19, upender kushwaha  wrote:
> On 5/13/19, Uma VR  wrote:
>> Friends,
>>
>> Does anyone has applied for Swayam examination 2019?
>> Have you received scribe guidelines for the same?
>>
>> --
>> Believe in WORK not in LUCK! & Most of all, trust in God but don't be
>> dependent on Him.
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>
>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
>> please
>> visit the list home page at
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
>> the
>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>>
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the
>> mails
>> sent through this mailing list..
>>
>>
>
> hello good after noon sir, please send me. scribe guidelines ok thanks
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please
> visit the list home page at
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
>


Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines for Swayam Examination 2019- reg

[upender kushwaha]

On 5/13/19, Uma VR  wrote:
> Friends,
>
> Does anyone has applied for Swayam examination 2019?
> Have you received scribe guidelines for the same?
>
> --
> Believe in WORK not in LUCK! & Most of all, trust in God but don't be
> dependent on Him.
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please
> visit the list home page at
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
>

hello good after noon sir, please send me. scribe guidelines ok thanks


Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

[AI] Scribe guidelines for Swayam Examination 2019- reg

[Uma VR]

Friends,

Does anyone has applied for Swayam examination 2019?
Have you received scribe guidelines for the same?

-- 
Believe in WORK not in LUCK! & Most of all, trust in God but don't be
dependent on Him.


Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Asudani, Rajesh]

Right to take one's own scribe must be retained at all cost.
In this, our advocacy has succeeded so far, it seems.

One step junior than the candidate must be clarified to mean one year and not 
one degree.

Yes, I agree that UPSC or any other body, instead of harping on the cheating by 
blind by taking professsional scribes, should disqualify the people doing so.
Have they ever done so?

If not, how can they say officially that professional scribes are taken?
What proof they have?

Kanchan, what is your experience?


Exams, if computerized, must be made accessible in the long run.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Rakesh Sharma
Sent: 10 July 2018 06:42
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hello friends, Please save this ruling earned after the long battle.
If we lose right to take own scribes then the fate of our destiny will be at 
the hands of these government officials and not our studies. In UPSC paper, you 
can’t expect a 12th pass student to write 9 papers in a row for 5 days. It is 
impossible. He/she is not equipped enough for writing in a speed which is 
required and for 5 days regularly. In college exams also, 12th pass students 
cannot right those lengthy papers. So if scribe has to be junior, it should be 
1 grade junior not degree junior. Moreover, there should not be any other 
requirements like  marks of scribe etc. if people are cheating, why they don’t 
disqualify the candidates. In those 3 or 4 years, I haven’t heard a single case 
of disqualification. It is their flexibility which allows people to cheat in 
the exams but now if so draconian rulings are accepted all those are preparing 
hard would be facing difficulty never before. Why don’t they videograph the 
during the exam and disqualify the candidate based on that. The reality is that 
people have no fear of  cheating because they don’t disqualify any candidates. 
There are already less jobs advertised by the government and if these rulings 
are applied no one will be able to clear the exams and whatever is advertised 
would remain unfulfilled and the same is desired by these officials.
It is my humble request to Kanchan ma’am and others who are fighting for the 
rights that please do save these rulings in spirit at least if not in letter 
for the better future of our fellow beings.


On 09/07/2018, Krishna Bodawala  wrote:
> same thing happen with me last year in C.S  institution exams they
> provided me the scribe but he was of gujarat mediam student appearing
> for my english exams
>
> On 7/2/18, Mohib Anwar Rafay  wrote:
>> The option of choosing own scribe must always be provided,
>> nevertheless few qualification restrictions may be there. Even I have
>> been victim of UPSC and Uttar pradesh PSC bad scribes. As they gave
>> me clerk who was not even able to pronounce the english words. and in
>> PSC they allow only 12 class standard student for public service
>> commission examination. Even for the exam of civil judge, they
>> allowed only maximum 12th class student, isn't injustice to seriously
>> preparing candidate?
>>
>> On 7/2/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>>> Himanshu and all on this group. I have read nearly everyones
>>> comments. I do feel there is a problem in the understanding of the
>>> problem and the solution. Just give me a day or  two to respond to
>>> all the queries and comments. It will take me a couple of hours to
>>> collate everyones views.
>>> Kanchan
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Himanshu Sahu
>>> Sent: 01 July 2018 23:06
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled.
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Though I accept that the libral scribe guidelines are being misused
>>> by many of the blind candidates in UPSC, IBPS, RBI, and various
>>> other competitive exams  (I am one of the victims of this practice,
>>> as they have raised the cut-offs of all competitive exams), still I
>>> believe that if the new guidelines will be implemented, we will be
>>> throne back in the dark era of pre-Feb, 2012, where SSC, Railways
>>> etc. were providing peons, clerical and even sometimes below 10th
>>> standard passed (other) staffs as writers during exams.
>>> I remember that during my graduation, how badly I was running behind
>>> NGOs for arranging writers having undergraduate qualifications, and
>>> how big-headed heads of NGO here in Kolkata were even not picking my
>>> phone calls.
>

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Rakesh Sharma]

Hello friends, Please save this ruling earned after the long battle.
If we lose right to take own scribes then the fate of our destiny will
be at the hands of these government officials and not our studies. In
UPSC paper, you can’t expect a 12th pass student to write 9 papers in
a row for 5 days. It is impossible. He/she is not equipped enough for
writing in a speed which is required and for 5 days regularly. In
college exams also, 12th pass students cannot right those lengthy
papers. So if scribe has to be junior, it should be 1 grade junior not
degree junior. Moreover, there should not be any other requirements
like  marks of scribe etc. if people are cheating, why they don’t
disqualify the candidates. In those 3 or 4 years, I haven’t heard a
single case of disqualification. It is their flexibility which allows
people to cheat in the exams but now if so draconian rulings are
accepted all those are preparing hard would be facing difficulty never
before. Why don’t they videograph the during the exam and disqualify
the candidate based on that. The reality is that people have no fear
of  cheating because they don’t disqualify any candidates. There are
already less jobs advertised by the government and if these rulings
are applied no one will be able to clear the exams and whatever is
advertised would remain unfulfilled and the same is desired by these
officials.
It is my humble request to Kanchan ma’am and others who are fighting
for the rights that please do save these rulings in spirit at least if
not in letter for the better future of our fellow beings.


On 09/07/2018, Krishna Bodawala  wrote:
> same thing happen with me last year in C.S  institution exams they
> provided me the scribe but he was of gujarat mediam student appearing
> for my english exams
>
> On 7/2/18, Mohib Anwar Rafay  wrote:
>> The option of choosing own scribe must always be provided,
>> nevertheless few qualification restrictions may be there. Even I have
>> been victim of UPSC and Uttar pradesh PSC bad scribes. As they gave me
>> clerk who was not even able to pronounce the english words. and in PSC
>> they allow only 12 class standard student for public service
>> commission examination. Even for the exam of civil judge, they allowed
>> only maximum 12th class student, isn't injustice to seriously
>> preparing candidate?
>>
>> On 7/2/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>>> Himanshu and all on this group. I have read nearly everyones comments. I
>>> do
>>> feel there is a problem in the understanding of the problem and the
>>> solution. Just give me a day or  two to respond to all the queries and
>>> comments. It will take me a couple of hours to collate everyones views.
>>> Kanchan
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Himanshu Sahu
>>> Sent: 01 July 2018 23:06
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning
>>> the disabled.
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Though I accept that the libral scribe guidelines are being misused by
>>> many
>>> of the blind candidates in UPSC, IBPS, RBI, and various other competitive
>>> exams  (I am one of the victims of this practice, as they have raised the
>>> cut-offs of all competitive exams), still I believe that if the new
>>> guidelines will be implemented, we will be throne back in the dark era of
>>> pre-Feb, 2012, where SSC, Railways etc. were providing peons, clerical
>>> and
>>> even sometimes below 10th standard passed (other) staffs as writers
>>> during
>>> exams.
>>> I remember that during my graduation, how badly I was running behind NGOs
>>> for arranging writers having undergraduate qualifications, and how
>>> big-headed heads of NGO here in Kolkata were even not picking my phone
>>> calls.
>>>
>>> Remember that we are going to loose our hard-fought victory on a flimsy
>>> groung that few are misusing writer guidelines and using improper
>>> means...
>>> Any employer if able to bear expenditure and having resources to provide
>>> their own writers to blind candidates, can easily instead spend resources
>>> and expenditures on strengthening invigilation systems, providing
>>> accessible
>>> and independent exam writing environment for blind candidates.
>>>
>>> It seems that we have succumb to the bureaucratic pressure (bureaucracy,
>>> which was never willing to see disabled at par with
>>> them) and have become victim of our own distinct  "blind" elite views who
>&

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Krishna Bodawala]

same thing happen with me last year in C.S  institution exams they
provided me the scribe but he was of gujarat mediam student appearing
for my english exams

On 7/2/18, Mohib Anwar Rafay  wrote:
> The option of choosing own scribe must always be provided,
> nevertheless few qualification restrictions may be there. Even I have
> been victim of UPSC and Uttar pradesh PSC bad scribes. As they gave me
> clerk who was not even able to pronounce the english words. and in PSC
> they allow only 12 class standard student for public service
> commission examination. Even for the exam of civil judge, they allowed
> only maximum 12th class student, isn't injustice to seriously
> preparing candidate?
>
> On 7/2/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> Himanshu and all on this group. I have read nearly everyones comments. I
>> do
>> feel there is a problem in the understanding of the problem and the
>> solution. Just give me a day or  two to respond to all the queries and
>> comments. It will take me a couple of hours to collate everyones views.
>> Kanchan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Himanshu Sahu
>> Sent: 01 July 2018 23:06
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Though I accept that the libral scribe guidelines are being misused by
>> many
>> of the blind candidates in UPSC, IBPS, RBI, and various other competitive
>> exams  (I am one of the victims of this practice, as they have raised the
>> cut-offs of all competitive exams), still I believe that if the new
>> guidelines will be implemented, we will be throne back in the dark era of
>> pre-Feb, 2012, where SSC, Railways etc. were providing peons, clerical and
>> even sometimes below 10th standard passed (other) staffs as writers during
>> exams.
>> I remember that during my graduation, how badly I was running behind NGOs
>> for arranging writers having undergraduate qualifications, and how
>> big-headed heads of NGO here in Kolkata were even not picking my phone
>> calls.
>>
>> Remember that we are going to loose our hard-fought victory on a flimsy
>> groung that few are misusing writer guidelines and using improper means...
>> Any employer if able to bear expenditure and having resources to provide
>> their own writers to blind candidates, can easily instead spend resources
>> and expenditures on strengthening invigilation systems, providing
>> accessible
>> and independent exam writing environment for blind candidates.
>>
>> It seems that we have succumb to the bureaucratic pressure (bureaucracy,
>> which was never willing to see disabled at par with
>> them) and have become victim of our own distinct  "blind" elite views who
>> feel that they are the best architect of the fate of entire blind
>> community.
>>
>> I worn that, however, if the new guidelines get implemented in this very
>> draft form, will be marred by litigations and counter litigations... And,
>> perhaps I'll be also one of them to challenge this.
>>
>> My simple suggestion, instead of creating this high level drama is to make
>> sit candidates under direct scanner of cc tv cameras and allow them to
>> give
>> their exams with any writer (though if higher qualification than the
>> candidate, is not desirous and may be barred), and resolve the entire
>> issue.
>>
>> My sincere thanks to Kanchan Jee for her fight for protecting rights of VI
>> people... but it seems that it is going in vein.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/30/18, Rohiet A. Patil  wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>> A thoughtfull discussion is going on.
>>> I would like to say few things in this regard. If the compititive exam
>>> platform is made accessible, then how a VI should perform the rough
>>> work like solving reasoning and quant? Though the brail and mathamatic
>>> equipments are allove in the examination hall, It is impossible to
>>> perform all the tasks within the given timeframe.
>>> 2nd, we should not forget about the literacy rate in VI community.
>>> Submition of audio files for discriptive paper may not be a sound idea.
>>> Rohiet Patil
>>> Cell: +919850831774
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: pranaya rani
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:50 PM
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Mohib Anwar Rafay]

The option of choosing own scribe must always be provided,
nevertheless few qualification restrictions may be there. Even I have
been victim of UPSC and Uttar pradesh PSC bad scribes. As they gave me
clerk who was not even able to pronounce the english words. and in PSC
they allow only 12 class standard student for public service
commission examination. Even for the exam of civil judge, they allowed
only maximum 12th class student, isn't injustice to seriously
preparing candidate?

On 7/2/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> Himanshu and all on this group. I have read nearly everyones comments. I do
> feel there is a problem in the understanding of the problem and the
> solution. Just give me a day or  two to respond to all the queries and
> comments. It will take me a couple of hours to collate everyones views.
> Kanchan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Himanshu Sahu
> Sent: 01 July 2018 23:06
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Though I accept that the libral scribe guidelines are being misused by many
> of the blind candidates in UPSC, IBPS, RBI, and various other competitive
> exams  (I am one of the victims of this practice, as they have raised the
> cut-offs of all competitive exams), still I believe that if the new
> guidelines will be implemented, we will be throne back in the dark era of
> pre-Feb, 2012, where SSC, Railways etc. were providing peons, clerical and
> even sometimes below 10th standard passed (other) staffs as writers during
> exams.
> I remember that during my graduation, how badly I was running behind NGOs
> for arranging writers having undergraduate qualifications, and how
> big-headed heads of NGO here in Kolkata were even not picking my phone
> calls.
>
> Remember that we are going to loose our hard-fought victory on a flimsy
> groung that few are misusing writer guidelines and using improper means...
> Any employer if able to bear expenditure and having resources to provide
> their own writers to blind candidates, can easily instead spend resources
> and expenditures on strengthening invigilation systems, providing accessible
> and independent exam writing environment for blind candidates.
>
> It seems that we have succumb to the bureaucratic pressure (bureaucracy,
> which was never willing to see disabled at par with
> them) and have become victim of our own distinct  "blind" elite views who
> feel that they are the best architect of the fate of entire blind community.
>
> I worn that, however, if the new guidelines get implemented in this very
> draft form, will be marred by litigations and counter litigations... And,
> perhaps I'll be also one of them to challenge this.
>
> My simple suggestion, instead of creating this high level drama is to make
> sit candidates under direct scanner of cc tv cameras and allow them to give
> their exams with any writer (though if higher qualification than the
> candidate, is not desirous and may be barred), and resolve the entire issue.
>
> My sincere thanks to Kanchan Jee for her fight for protecting rights of VI
> people... but it seems that it is going in vein.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/30/18, Rohiet A. Patil  wrote:
>> Hi!
>> A thoughtfull discussion is going on.
>> I would like to say few things in this regard. If the compititive exam
>> platform is made accessible, then how a VI should perform the rough
>> work like solving reasoning and quant? Though the brail and mathamatic
>> equipments are allove in the examination hall, It is impossible to
>> perform all the tasks within the given timeframe.
>> 2nd, we should not forget about the literacy rate in VI community.
>> Submition of audio files for discriptive paper may not be a sound idea.
>> Rohiet Patil
>> Cell: +919850831774
>> -Original Message-
>> From: pranaya rani
>> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:50 PM
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.'
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Best is we must be allowed to our own scribers, scribers provided by
>> examining authorities/agencies are always substandard/unqualified, I
>> have heard many times clerks/peons are provided as scribers, terrible!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Lyngdoh
>> Sent: 28 June, 2018 1:40 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>>

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Himanshu and all on this group. I have read nearly everyones comments. I do 
feel there is a problem in the understanding of the problem and the solution. 
Just give me a day or  two to respond to all the queries and comments. It will 
take me a couple of hours to collate everyones views. 
Kanchan 

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Himanshu Sahu
Sent: 01 July 2018 23:06
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Though I accept that the libral scribe guidelines are being misused by many of 
the blind candidates in UPSC, IBPS, RBI, and various other competitive exams  
(I am one of the victims of this practice, as they have raised the cut-offs of 
all competitive exams), still I believe that if the new guidelines will be 
implemented, we will be throne back in the dark era of pre-Feb, 2012, where 
SSC, Railways etc. were providing peons, clerical and even sometimes below 10th 
standard passed (other) staffs as writers during exams.
I remember that during my graduation, how badly I was running behind NGOs for 
arranging writers having undergraduate qualifications, and how big-headed heads 
of NGO here in Kolkata were even not picking my phone calls.

Remember that we are going to loose our hard-fought victory on a flimsy groung 
that few are misusing writer guidelines and using improper means...
Any employer if able to bear expenditure and having resources to provide their 
own writers to blind candidates, can easily instead spend resources and 
expenditures on strengthening invigilation systems, providing accessible and 
independent exam writing environment for blind candidates.

It seems that we have succumb to the bureaucratic pressure (bureaucracy, which 
was never willing to see disabled at par with
them) and have become victim of our own distinct  "blind" elite views who feel 
that they are the best architect of the fate of entire blind community.

I worn that, however, if the new guidelines get implemented in this very draft 
form, will be marred by litigations and counter litigations... And, perhaps 
I'll be also one of them to challenge this.

My simple suggestion, instead of creating this high level drama is to make sit 
candidates under direct scanner of cc tv cameras and allow them to give their 
exams with any writer (though if higher qualification than the candidate, is 
not desirous and may be barred), and resolve the entire issue.

My sincere thanks to Kanchan Jee for her fight for protecting rights of VI 
people... but it seems that it is going in vein.





On 6/30/18, Rohiet A. Patil  wrote:
> Hi!
> A thoughtfull discussion is going on.
> I would like to say few things in this regard. If the compititive exam 
> platform is made accessible, then how a VI should perform the rough 
> work like solving reasoning and quant? Though the brail and mathamatic 
> equipments are allove in the examination hall, It is impossible to 
> perform all the tasks within the given timeframe.
> 2nd, we should not forget about the literacy rate in VI community.
> Submition of audio files for discriptive paper may not be a sound idea.
> Rohiet Patil
> Cell: +919850831774
> -Original Message-
> From: pranaya rani
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:50 PM
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.'
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Best is we must be allowed to our own scribers, scribers provided by 
> examining authorities/agencies are always substandard/unqualified, I 
> have heard many times clerks/peons are provided as scribers, terrible!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Lyngdoh
> Sent: 28 June, 2018 1:40 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi
>
> Depending on institution to provide a scribe is good. But what if that 
> institution send an unqualified one? What action can be done against 
> it?
> I had a very bad experience in this matter with UPSC exam. When I 
> wrote for my first attempt I opted for UPSC scribe thinking that I 
> will get a good one. Unfortunate for me, I got a girl who did not even 
> know how to pronounce english words and I have to ask for spellings 
> almost the whole of exam period.
> What can we do in such cases except to feel dejected without my fault 
> for it?
>
> On 6/28/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:
>> Dear Dananjay
>>
>> Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording 
>> of the exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in 
>> providing scribes.
>> I suppose it is time

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Himanshu Sahu]

Though I accept that the libral scribe guidelines are being misused by
many of the blind candidates in UPSC, IBPS, RBI, and various other
competitive exams  (I am one of the victims of this practice, as they
have raised the cut-offs of all competitive exams), still I believe
that if the new guidelines will be implemented, we will be throne back
in the dark era of pre-Feb, 2012, where SSC, Railways etc. were
providing peons, clerical and even sometimes below 10th standard
passed (other) staffs as writers during exams.
I remember that during my graduation, how badly I was running behind
NGOs for arranging writers having undergraduate qualifications, and
how big-headed heads of NGO here in Kolkata were even not picking my
phone calls.

Remember that we are going to loose our hard-fought victory on a
flimsy groung that few are misusing writer guidelines and using
improper means...
Any employer if able to bear expenditure and having resources to
provide their own writers to blind candidates, can easily instead
spend resources and expenditures on strengthening invigilation
systems, providing accessible and independent exam writing environment
for blind candidates.

It seems that we have succumb to the bureaucratic pressure
(bureaucracy, which was never willing to see disabled at par with
them) and have become victim of our own distinct  "blind" elite views
who feel that they are the best architect of the fate of entire blind
community.

I worn that, however, if the new guidelines get implemented in this
very draft form, will be marred by litigations and counter
litigations... And, perhaps I'll be also one of them to challenge
this.

My simple suggestion, instead of creating this high level drama is to
make sit candidates under direct scanner of cc tv cameras and allow
them to give their exams with any writer (though if higher
qualification than the candidate, is not desirous and may be barred),
and resolve the entire issue.

My sincere thanks to Kanchan Jee for her fight for protecting rights
of VI people... but it seems that it is going in vein.





On 6/30/18, Rohiet A. Patil  wrote:
> Hi!
> A thoughtfull discussion is going on.
> I would like to say few things in this regard. If the compititive exam
> platform is made accessible, then how a VI should perform the rough work
> like solving reasoning and quant? Though the brail and mathamatic equipments
> are allove in the examination hall, It is impossible to perform all the
> tasks within the given timeframe.
> 2nd, we should not forget about the literacy rate in VI community.
> Submition of audio files for discriptive paper may not be a sound idea.
> Rohiet Patil
> Cell: +919850831774
> -Original Message-
> From: pranaya rani
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:50 PM
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.'
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Best is we must be allowed to our own scribers, scribers provided by
> examining authorities/agencies are always substandard/unqualified, I have
> heard many times clerks/peons are provided as scribers, terrible!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Lyngdoh
> Sent: 28 June, 2018 1:40 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi
>
> Depending on institution to provide a scribe is good. But what if that
> institution send an unqualified one? What action can be done against
> it?
> I had a very bad experience in this matter with UPSC exam. When I
> wrote for my first attempt I opted for UPSC scribe thinking that I
> will get a good one. Unfortunate for me, I got a girl who did not even
> know how to pronounce english words and I have to ask for spellings
> almost the whole of exam period.
> What can we do in such cases except to feel dejected without my fault for
> it?
>
> On 6/28/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:
>> Dear Dananjay
>>
>> Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording of the
>> exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in providing
>> scribes.
>> I suppose it is time for someone to bell the cat and build precedence
>>
>> Please also document the process of the equipment used, the preservation
>> policy of the recording, protocol to handover the recording etc. Get the
>> documentation published on your portal so that it becomes a fully
>> transparent process.
>>
>>
>> Your thoughts please.
>>
>> Harish.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Dhananjay Bhole
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Rohiet A. Patil]

Hi!
A thoughtfull discussion is going on.
I would like to say few things in this regard. If the compititive exam 
platform is made accessible, then how a VI should perform the rough work 
like solving reasoning and quant? Though the brail and mathamatic equipments 
are allove in the examination hall, It is impossible to perform all the 
tasks within the given timeframe.

2nd, we should not forget about the literacy rate in VI community.
Submition of audio files for discriptive paper may not be a sound idea.
Rohiet Patil
Cell: +919850831774
-Original Message- 
From: pranaya rani

Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:50 PM
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning 
the disabled.'

Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Best is we must be allowed to our own scribers, scribers provided by 
examining authorities/agencies are always substandard/unqualified, I have 
heard many times clerks/peons are provided as scribers, terrible!


-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf 
Of Lyngdoh

Sent: 28 June, 2018 1:40 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning 
the disabled.

Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi

Depending on institution to provide a scribe is good. But what if that
institution send an unqualified one? What action can be done against
it?
I had a very bad experience in this matter with UPSC exam. When I
wrote for my first attempt I opted for UPSC scribe thinking that I
will get a good one. Unfortunate for me, I got a girl who did not even
know how to pronounce english words and I have to ask for spellings
almost the whole of exam period.
What can we do in such cases except to feel dejected without my fault for 
it?


On 6/28/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:

Dear Dananjay

Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording of the
exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in providing
scribes.
I suppose it is time for someone to bell the cat and build precedence

Please also document the process of the equipment used, the preservation
policy of the recording, protocol to handover the recording etc. Get the
documentation published on your portal so that it becomes a fully
transparent process.


Your thoughts please.

Harish.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
Behalf

Of Dhananjay Bhole
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:35 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Dear All,


Very important discussion going on.
I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions
providing scribe from their side?
Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I have
to provide scribes to students appearing exam in university department and
affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior person like research
associate or teaching assistant who acts as a scribe and superviser as 
well.

Is it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful to
students with visual impairment as such persons can understand what 
student

is dictating.
Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to
coordinator of disability support service for specific cases such as what
type of scribe should be provided to MBA student. Whether the scribe 
should

be from non management non commerce background? I suggest them that the
scribe should be from same discipline but 1 year lower qualification. EG 
if

student is appearing second year MCA the scribe should be from First year
MCA or lower. Not from social science background. If student is 
comfortable

with other stream, they can go for it.

Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience of
students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes as well
which provides scribes to students.

I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam who 
was

not able to understand and read and write several terminologies of science
and mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if 
scribe

is provided by institutes conducting exams.

Regards
On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:

hi friends!
it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
different qualification.
for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
criteria for both candidates?
if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it
be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.

On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:

Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
past I have always

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[pranaya rani]

Dear kanchan, congrats to you for all these, your stubbory stance, hard
negotiating skills,  taking on everyone in the room to protect our
interests,  it should have much more than difficult to convince others who
don't have an aorta of knowledge of blind persons and scribes, all in all we
all must be indebtedness to you

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Kanchan Pamnani
Sent: 25 June, 2018 4:18 PM
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.'
Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
what happened but let me explain a few issues  

1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
definitely more than what we had demanded at different times. 

2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
no one really implemented the guidelines. 

3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
guidelines were unfair. 

4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers. 

5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers complained
to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.  

6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee. 

7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
meeting on 20th June. 

8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
and SSC. 

9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary had
gone to meet the Minister. 

10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting. 

11.   It was quite a hot debate. 

12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same person
to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.

13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
of the Sub-committee were accepted.  

14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body can
provide not less than a matriculate.  

15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance. 

16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the original
guidelines.  

17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should not
be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have used
their own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may be
considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.  

18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less in
qualification than the candidate. 

19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification
for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground
realities will tell. 

20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 cups of
tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report to the
courts. 

21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is going to
be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and each of
you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the situation. You are
responsible for what lies ahead. I know the argument about supervision.   

22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2 people. We
did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many weren't.
However it has taken lots of persuasion, anger, raised voices and a lot of
diplomacy. 

23.   What will let us down is the continuous  use of professional scribes.


24.   Please help by giving me the reference to the Bombay High Court and
Eranakulam cases. We will have to intervene.  

25.   Thanks to each of you who respond to my urgent requests and give your
input on these crucial issues.

26.   It has been 12 years battling this menace. I wish I dint have to face
a meetingwhere I am told that my people are cheating. I further wish that
none of my people suffer because of bad scribes.  

Kanchan 

 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[pranaya rani]

Best is we must be allowed to our own scribers, scribers provided by  examining 
authorities/agencies are always substandard/unqualified, I have heard many 
times clerks/peons are provided as scribers, terrible!

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Lyngdoh
Sent: 28 June, 2018 1:40 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi

Depending on institution to provide a scribe is good. But what if that
institution send an unqualified one? What action can be done against
it?
I had a very bad experience in this matter with UPSC exam. When I
wrote for my first attempt I opted for UPSC scribe thinking that I
will get a good one. Unfortunate for me, I got a girl who did not even
know how to pronounce english words and I have to ask for spellings
almost the whole of exam period.
What can we do in such cases except to feel dejected without my fault for it?

On 6/28/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:
> Dear Dananjay
>
> Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording of the
> exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in providing
> scribes.
> I suppose it is time for someone to bell the cat and build precedence
>
> Please also document the process of the equipment used, the preservation
> policy of the recording, protocol to handover the recording etc. Get the
> documentation published on your portal so that it becomes a fully
> transparent process.
>
>
> Your thoughts please.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Dhananjay Bhole
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:35 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Dear All,
>
>
> Very important discussion going on.
> I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions
> providing scribe from their side?
> Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I have
> to provide scribes to students appearing exam in university department and
> affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior person like research
> associate or teaching assistant who acts as a scribe and superviser as well.
> Is it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful to
> students with visual impairment as such persons can understand what student
> is dictating.
> Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to
> coordinator of disability support service for specific cases such as what
> type of scribe should be provided to MBA student. Whether the scribe should
> be from non management non commerce background? I suggest them that the
> scribe should be from same discipline but 1 year lower qualification. EG if
> student is appearing second year MCA the scribe should be from First year
> MCA or lower. Not from social science background. If student is comfortable
> with other stream, they can go for it.
>
> Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience of
> students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes as well
> which provides scribes to students.
>
> I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam who was
> not able to understand and read and write several terminologies of science
> and mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
> Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if scribe
> is provided by institutes conducting exams.
>
> Regards
> On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:
>> hi friends!
>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
>> different qualification.
>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
>> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
>> criteria for both candidates?
>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it
>> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
>> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>>
>>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>>> Congrats!
>>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>>
>&g

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Sathiyaprakash Ramdoss]

 Prometric service or something similar may be a solution.  Test
takers can inform examining authority with respect to their condition
, accommodations and other needs while submitting their application.
The examining authorities can get in-touch with prometric services and
 prometric service can arrange scribes and these  people are
responsible for providing training to scribes  with respect to reading
diagrams, formulas and so on and inform them about ethical practices.
Additionally, prometric services will verify test-takers documents,
video-tape  candidate's responses and so on. In this kind of
situation, candidates will go to prometric service location to take
their exams. May be a distant possibility.

Cheers, Sathiya

On 6/28/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> Hi Kanchan,
>
> I wrote a letter to them the following week itself with many
> suggestions included in it. I will check it if I have it in soft copy
> and send it to you.
> Note that I did not get any respond from them though.
>
> On 6/28/18, Avichal Bhatnagar  wrote:
>> The committee should also raise the issue of allowing blind people to
>> carry braille and teller frames inside the examination hall, for
>> solving mathematical and reasoning questions.
>> Sometimes, keeping long steps in mind becomes a difficult task.
>>
>>
>> On 6/28/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>>> You could have complained to the UPSC . One letter of complaint would
>>> have
>>> helped us in our negotiations.
>>> Kanchan
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Lyngdoh
>>> Sent: 28 June 2018 13:40
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning
>>> the disabled.
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Depending on institution to provide a scribe is good. But what if that
>>> institution send an unqualified one? What action can be done against it?
>>> I had a very bad experience in this matter with UPSC exam. When I wrote
>>> for
>>> my first attempt I opted for UPSC scribe thinking that I will get a good
>>> one. Unfortunate for me, I got a girl who did not even know how to
>>> pronounce
>>> english words and I have to ask for spellings almost the whole of exam
>>> period.
>>> What can we do in such cases except to feel dejected without my fault for
>>> it?
>>>
>>> On 6/28/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:
>>>> Dear Dananjay
>>>>
>>>> Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording of
>>>> the exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in
>>>> providing scribes.
>>>> I suppose it is time for someone to bell the cat and build precedence
>>>>
>>>> Please also document the process of the equipment used, the
>>>> preservation policy of the recording, protocol to handover the
>>>> recording etc. Get the documentation published on your portal so that
>>>> it becomes a fully transparent process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your thoughts please.
>>>>
>>>> Harish.
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>>> Behalf Of Dhananjay Bhole
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:35 PM
>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>>> concerning the disabled. 
>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very important discussion going on.
>>>> I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions
>>>> providing scribe from their side?
>>>> Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I
>>>> have to provide scribes to students appearing exam in university
>>>> department and affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior
>>>> person like research associate or teaching assistant who acts as a
>>>> scribe
>>>> and superviser as well.
>>>> Is it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful
>>>> to students with visual impairment as such persons can understand what
>>>> student is dictating.
>>>> Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to
>>>> coordinator of disability support service for specific cases such as
>>>> what type 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Lyngdoh]

Hi Kanchan,

I wrote a letter to them the following week itself with many
suggestions included in it. I will check it if I have it in soft copy
and send it to you.
Note that I did not get any respond from them though.

On 6/28/18, Avichal Bhatnagar  wrote:
> The committee should also raise the issue of allowing blind people to
> carry braille and teller frames inside the examination hall, for
> solving mathematical and reasoning questions.
> Sometimes, keeping long steps in mind becomes a difficult task.
>
>
> On 6/28/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> You could have complained to the UPSC . One letter of complaint would have
>> helped us in our negotiations.
>> Kanchan
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Lyngdoh
>> Sent: 28 June 2018 13:40
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Depending on institution to provide a scribe is good. But what if that
>> institution send an unqualified one? What action can be done against it?
>> I had a very bad experience in this matter with UPSC exam. When I wrote
>> for
>> my first attempt I opted for UPSC scribe thinking that I will get a good
>> one. Unfortunate for me, I got a girl who did not even know how to
>> pronounce
>> english words and I have to ask for spellings almost the whole of exam
>> period.
>> What can we do in such cases except to feel dejected without my fault for
>> it?
>>
>> On 6/28/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:
>>> Dear Dananjay
>>>
>>> Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording of
>>> the exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in
>>> providing scribes.
>>> I suppose it is time for someone to bell the cat and build precedence
>>>
>>> Please also document the process of the equipment used, the
>>> preservation policy of the recording, protocol to handover the
>>> recording etc. Get the documentation published on your portal so that
>>> it becomes a fully transparent process.
>>>
>>>
>>> Your thoughts please.
>>>
>>> Harish.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Dhananjay Bhole
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:35 PM
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled. 
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>> Very important discussion going on.
>>> I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions
>>> providing scribe from their side?
>>> Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I
>>> have to provide scribes to students appearing exam in university
>>> department and affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior
>>> person like research associate or teaching assistant who acts as a scribe
>>> and superviser as well.
>>> Is it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful
>>> to students with visual impairment as such persons can understand what
>>> student is dictating.
>>> Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to
>>> coordinator of disability support service for specific cases such as
>>> what type of scribe should be provided to MBA student. Whether the
>>> scribe should be from non management non commerce background? I
>>> suggest them that the scribe should be from same discipline but 1 year
>>> lower qualification. EG if student is appearing second year MCA the
>>> scribe should be from First year MCA or lower. Not from social science
>>> background. If student is comfortable with other stream, they can go for
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience
>>> of students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes
>>> as well which provides scribes to students.
>>>
>>> I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam
>>> who was not able to understand and read and write several
>>> terminologies of science and mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
>>> Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if
>>> scribe is provided by institutes conducting exams.
>>>
>>> Rega

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Avichal Bhatnagar]

The committee should also raise the issue of allowing blind people to
carry braille and teller frames inside the examination hall, for
solving mathematical and reasoning questions.
Sometimes, keeping long steps in mind becomes a difficult task.


On 6/28/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> You could have complained to the UPSC . One letter of complaint would have
> helped us in our negotiations.
> Kanchan
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Lyngdoh
> Sent: 28 June 2018 13:40
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi
>
> Depending on institution to provide a scribe is good. But what if that
> institution send an unqualified one? What action can be done against it?
> I had a very bad experience in this matter with UPSC exam. When I wrote for
> my first attempt I opted for UPSC scribe thinking that I will get a good
> one. Unfortunate for me, I got a girl who did not even know how to pronounce
> english words and I have to ask for spellings almost the whole of exam
> period.
> What can we do in such cases except to feel dejected without my fault for
> it?
>
> On 6/28/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:
>> Dear Dananjay
>>
>> Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording of
>> the exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in
>> providing scribes.
>> I suppose it is time for someone to bell the cat and build precedence
>>
>> Please also document the process of the equipment used, the
>> preservation policy of the recording, protocol to handover the
>> recording etc. Get the documentation published on your portal so that
>> it becomes a fully transparent process.
>>
>>
>> Your thoughts please.
>>
>> Harish.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Dhananjay Bhole
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:35 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled. 
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>>
>> Very important discussion going on.
>> I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions
>> providing scribe from their side?
>> Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I
>> have to provide scribes to students appearing exam in university
>> department and affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior
>> person like research associate or teaching assistant who acts as a scribe
>> and superviser as well.
>> Is it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful
>> to students with visual impairment as such persons can understand what
>> student is dictating.
>> Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to
>> coordinator of disability support service for specific cases such as
>> what type of scribe should be provided to MBA student. Whether the
>> scribe should be from non management non commerce background? I
>> suggest them that the scribe should be from same discipline but 1 year
>> lower qualification. EG if student is appearing second year MCA the
>> scribe should be from First year MCA or lower. Not from social science
>> background. If student is comfortable with other stream, they can go for
>> it.
>>
>> Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience
>> of students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes
>> as well which provides scribes to students.
>>
>> I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam
>> who was not able to understand and read and write several
>> terminologies of science and mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
>> Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if
>> scribe is provided by institutes conducting exams.
>>
>> Regards
>> On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:
>>> hi friends!
>>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
>>> different qualification.
>>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
>>> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
>>> criteria for both candidates?
>>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't
>>> it be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth
>>> passed candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>>>
>>>

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

You could have complained to the UPSC . One letter of complaint would have 
helped us in our negotiations. 
Kanchan 
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Lyngdoh
Sent: 28 June 2018 13:40
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi

Depending on institution to provide a scribe is good. But what if that 
institution send an unqualified one? What action can be done against it?
I had a very bad experience in this matter with UPSC exam. When I wrote for my 
first attempt I opted for UPSC scribe thinking that I will get a good one. 
Unfortunate for me, I got a girl who did not even know how to pronounce english 
words and I have to ask for spellings almost the whole of exam period.
What can we do in such cases except to feel dejected without my fault for it?

On 6/28/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:
> Dear Dananjay
>
> Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording of 
> the exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in 
> providing scribes.
> I suppose it is time for someone to bell the cat and build precedence
>
> Please also document the process of the equipment used, the 
> preservation policy of the recording, protocol to handover the 
> recording etc. Get the documentation published on your portal so that 
> it becomes a fully transparent process.
>
>
> Your thoughts please.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Dhananjay Bhole
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:35 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Dear All,
>
>
> Very important discussion going on.
> I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions 
> providing scribe from their side?
> Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I 
> have to provide scribes to students appearing exam in university 
> department and affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior 
> person like research associate or teaching assistant who acts as a scribe and 
> superviser as well.
> Is it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful 
> to students with visual impairment as such persons can understand what 
> student is dictating.
> Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to 
> coordinator of disability support service for specific cases such as 
> what type of scribe should be provided to MBA student. Whether the 
> scribe should be from non management non commerce background? I 
> suggest them that the scribe should be from same discipline but 1 year 
> lower qualification. EG if student is appearing second year MCA the 
> scribe should be from First year MCA or lower. Not from social science 
> background. If student is comfortable with other stream, they can go for it.
>
> Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience 
> of students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes 
> as well which provides scribes to students.
>
> I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam 
> who was not able to understand and read and write several 
> terminologies of science and mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
> Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if 
> scribe is provided by institutes conducting exams.
>
> Regards
> On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:
>> hi friends!
>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with 
>> different qualification.
>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is 
>> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe 
>> criteria for both candidates?
>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't 
>> it be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth 
>> passed candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean 
>>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the 
>>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>>
>>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>>> Congrats!
>>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in 
>>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and 
>>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>>
>>>> At least folks now at least, stop using profe

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Lyngdoh]

Hi

Depending on institution to provide a scribe is good. But what if that
institution send an unqualified one? What action can be done against
it?
I had a very bad experience in this matter with UPSC exam. When I
wrote for my first attempt I opted for UPSC scribe thinking that I
will get a good one. Unfortunate for me, I got a girl who did not even
know how to pronounce english words and I have to ask for spellings
almost the whole of exam period.
What can we do in such cases except to feel dejected without my fault for it?

On 6/28/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:
> Dear Dananjay
>
> Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording of the
> exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in providing
> scribes.
> I suppose it is time for someone to bell the cat and build precedence
>
> Please also document the process of the equipment used, the preservation
> policy of the recording, protocol to handover the recording etc. Get the
> documentation published on your portal so that it becomes a fully
> transparent process.
>
>
> Your thoughts please.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Dhananjay Bhole
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:35 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Dear All,
>
>
> Very important discussion going on.
> I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions
> providing scribe from their side?
> Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I have
> to provide scribes to students appearing exam in university department and
> affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior person like research
> associate or teaching assistant who acts as a scribe and superviser as well.
> Is it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful to
> students with visual impairment as such persons can understand what student
> is dictating.
> Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to
> coordinator of disability support service for specific cases such as what
> type of scribe should be provided to MBA student. Whether the scribe should
> be from non management non commerce background? I suggest them that the
> scribe should be from same discipline but 1 year lower qualification. EG if
> student is appearing second year MCA the scribe should be from First year
> MCA or lower. Not from social science background. If student is comfortable
> with other stream, they can go for it.
>
> Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience of
> students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes as well
> which provides scribes to students.
>
> I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam who was
> not able to understand and read and write several terminologies of science
> and mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
> Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if scribe
> is provided by institutes conducting exams.
>
> Regards
> On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:
>> hi friends!
>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
>> different qualification.
>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
>> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
>> criteria for both candidates?
>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it
>> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
>> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>>
>>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>>> Congrats!
>>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>>
>>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>>
>>>> 0712 2806846

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kotian, H P]

Dear Dananjay

Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording of the 
exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in providing scribes.
I suppose it is time for someone to bell the cat and build precedence

Please also document the process of the equipment used, the preservation policy 
of the recording, protocol to handover the recording etc. Get the documentation 
published on your portal so that it becomes a fully transparent process.


Your thoughts please.

Harish.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Dhananjay Bhole
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:35 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Dear All,


Very important discussion going on.
I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions providing 
scribe from their side?
Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I have to 
provide scribes to students appearing exam in university department and 
affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior person like research 
associate or teaching assistant who acts as a scribe and superviser as well. Is 
it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful to students 
with visual impairment as such persons can understand what student is dictating.
Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to coordinator 
of disability support service for specific cases such as what type of scribe 
should be provided to MBA student. Whether the scribe should be from non 
management non commerce background? I suggest them that the scribe should be 
from same discipline but 1 year lower qualification. EG if student is appearing 
second year MCA the scribe should be from First year MCA or lower. Not from 
social science background. If student is comfortable with other stream, they 
can go for it.

Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience of 
students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes as well 
which provides scribes to students.

I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam who was 
not able to understand and read and write several terminologies of science and 
mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if scribe is 
provided by institutes conducting exams.

Regards
On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
> criteria for both candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it
> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> Congrats!
>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>
>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>
>>>
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>
>>> 0712 2806846
>>>
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>>
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
>>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>>
>>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>>> d

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Prashant, 
Our subcommittee let us down at one level and secondly our own people  have 
complained to court and to the UPSC and  our own Ministry against the rampant 
misuse of scribes.
Technology during exams is improving every year and slowly but surely we will 
get to a point when most exams will be on the computer however at present we 
are not there and therefore we have to deal with the difficult situation. 
Kanchan 
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Prashant Ranjan Verma
Sent: 27 June 2018 16:37
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.'
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

It is unfortunate that the present progressive and rights based exam writing 
guidelines are being tinkered with. Instead of modifications, it should have 
been uniformly implemented all over the country. 

If some problems were being observed, arrangements should have been made for 
stronger invigilation. 
May be a complete video + audio recording of each blind candidate with scribe  
could be done. It is not so expensive and I think cost is anyway not the reason 
for the changes being proposed. 
The videos of successful candidates could then be evaluated and compared with 
the answer sheets. The fear of   being in complete CCTV surveillance would 
deter much of the wrong practices. 

These days the election voting, some court hearings, interrogations etc. are 
being video graphed. why can't the   same government agree for video graphy of 
exams? 

If not this, why cant the government appoint invigilator for each blind 
candidate or at least one invigilator for 2 blind candidates.

Accessibility of the question paper and method of evaluation is a separate 
issue which needs to be pursued with each examining body in parallel.

Imagine the government appointed pool of scribes offering the blind candidates 
additional service on some payment.  If blind candidates are being accused of 
malpractices, the scribe pool can also become corrupt with time. 

Who wants to give a guarantee that knowledge is related to academic 
qualifications only? Why can't a less qualified person be capable of solving 
questions of a higher exam? and in the same way are all post graduates capable 
of doing well in the class 12 exams even now? Fixing scribe qualifications is 
not a good idea, it will not solve the problem. 

thanks,
Prashant
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Sudeshna Bhattacharya
Sent: 27 June 2018 15:05
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi Friends,
On reading this very interesting and extremely useful discussion, I could not 
stop from expressing my observations and view there of.
Firstly in a country like India where there is a huge number of unemployed 
youth, it will not be that easy to curb malpractices of various types in 
writing exams. We are thinking of malpractices that can be caused by using 
scribes by VI candidates only, but it can happen with any other candidates as 
well by any other type  of wrong attitude..  So why to stop VI candidates from 
choosing scribe of their own as it was before? Is it the only malpractice going 
on while writing any exam?Here I’d like to mention that I don’t support 
malpractices by VI but when finding a scribe itself is a great
challenge- particularly in semi urban or rural areas, putting even more 
restriction will make the chance of getting a scribe even more limited..
Secondly I feel, even if the exam authority can build up a pool of scribes and 
provides scribe mandatorily to the candidates who are to use their services,is 
there any guarantee that every one of them will be of same qualification or 
merit? Moreover if a VI candidate finds a scribe provided by the authority not 
suitable for him / her to write the exam only two days before the exam, how the 
authority will provide him / her a suitable one within that very short 
time?won’t it be an extreme injustice  towards him / her and don’t you feel it 
will create a tremendous mental pressure on the candidate?
Thirdly, if we think the case of any exam for any other people, aren’t there 
any differences amongst the candidates in regard to qualification and merit? E. 
g. in any clerical exam do all the candidates hold the same HS qualification? 
Still lots of HS candidates are appearing the exam knowing fully well that 
there is very high possibility of  many candidates with much higher degree and 
efficiency being his / her competitor. isn’t it?
Fourthly, if we talk about professional scribes and malpractices caused by 
them, lowering educational qualification doesn’t seem to be a viable solution 
because in that case, persons interested to be a scribe in profession, will 
learn the subjects of competitive exams only irrespective

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Bhavya shah]

re that the integrity of the exam is
> not compromised.
>
> Additional note: One way to make math related content accessible could be a
> MathML based course material as well as the examination, but that too will
> not solve diagram issues. So in near future we would have to depend on human
> scribes. I think UPSC should establish disability support services similar
> to what Pune University already has. If such a service gets established,
> UPSC could make incremental modifications every year.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Srinivasu Chakravarthula
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 3:56 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> George,
> I think it was used to illustrate the scenario. Well, firstly PhD candidate
> shouldn't be applying to compete for a clerk post. Overall point is if
> scribe qualification is slightly less than what the job is needed should be
> enough. If at all that less qualification is a mandate.
>
> Regards,
>
> Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
> Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com
>
> Let's create an inclusive web!
>
> Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:41 PM, George Abraham  wrote:
>
>> Just would like to point out that the caliber of a Ph.D is definitely
>> higher than a 12th passed. Insisting on the Ph.D to use a 11th passed
>> scribe might be a disservice to him. A point to ponder!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:44 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Hi
>> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a
>> clerk for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2
>> candidates one a post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to
>> consider for the job is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
>> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in
>> this case.
>>
>> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC.
>> Mentioned it for illustration purpose.
>>
>> Harish.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled. 
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> hi friends!
>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
>> different qualification.
>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
>> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
>> criteria for both candidates?
>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it
>> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
>> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> > Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>> > what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>> > past I have always looked for graduates.
>> >
>> > On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> >> Congrats!
>> >> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>> >> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>> >> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>> >>
>> >> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>> >> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> >> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> >> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> >> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> >> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>> >>
>> >> 0712 2806846
>> >>
>> >> President
>> >> VIBEWA
>> >> Co-Moderator
>> >> VIB-India
>> >>
>> >> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>> >> laughter.
>> >>
>> >> ---

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Dinesh Kaushal]

Hi all,

Many of the problems such as finding a suitable writer at the last minute due 
to unsuitability or health issues could be solved if the examination system is 
a bit flexible. Accommodating people with various needs is not easy so 
examining bodies could consider second chance in a few days.

Many international examining bodies allow you to retake the exam if due to 
unavoidable circumstances your exam could not be completed on the set date. 
They also provide religious alternative dates for candidates who cannot appear 
on the set date. I am using religious alternative date as an example of being 
flexible.

Many of you already know, examination bodies such ETS or GMAC also provide 50 
to 100 percent extra time for Toefl/GRE / GMAT.

Unfortunately even GMAT or GRE are not yet accessible via computer though they 
allow the candidates to write the descriptive parts using screen readers. I 
understand that there could be problems regarding diagrams, special symbols 
etc. many of the suggestions put forward are visionary in nature but we need to 
go by what is already available.

These bodies have a lot of discretion about whom they allow as a scribe. It is 
their mandate to provide a suitable scribe, but if you request, they do allow 
your own candidate and they record your session to check for any malpractice. 
Many of Indian examining bodies would say that they do not have resources to 
record sessions. But it is their responsibility to provide support for 
candidates as well as ensure that the integrity of the exam is not compromised.

Additional note: One way to make math related content accessible could be a 
MathML based course material as well as the examination, but that too will not 
solve diagram issues. So in near future we would have to depend on human 
scribes. I think UPSC should establish disability support services similar to 
what Pune University already has. If such a service gets established, UPSC 
could make incremental modifications every year.


-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Srinivasu Chakravarthula
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 3:56 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

George,
I think it was used to illustrate the scenario. Well, firstly PhD candidate 
shouldn't be applying to compete for a clerk post. Overall point is if scribe 
qualification is slightly less than what the job is needed should be enough. If 
at all that less qualification is a mandate.

Regards,

Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com

Let's create an inclusive web!

Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica


On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:41 PM, George Abraham  wrote:

> Just would like to point out that the caliber of a Ph.D is definitely 
> higher than a 12th passed. Insisting on the Ph.D to use a 11th passed 
> scribe might be a disservice to him. A point to ponder!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:44 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi
> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a 
> clerk for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 
> candidates one a post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to 
> consider for the job is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in 
> this case.
>
> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. 
> Mentioned it for illustration purpose.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with 
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is 
> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe 
> criteria for both candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it 
> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed 
> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> > Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean 
> > what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Siva Suresh]

HI Sudeshna Bhattacharya it was a good discussion. very neatly
concluded all the points. dear friends.  if the minimam qualification
for a scribe is matriculation. what is the criteria for a VI candidate
who is appearing for SSC board exam which is equivalent to
matriculation in AP?
nead your suggestions and inputs on this point.

Thank you all in advance. Shivasuresh



On 6/27/18, Srinivasu Chakravarthula  wrote:
> George,
> I think it was used to illustrate the scenario. Well, firstly PhD candidate
> shouldn't be applying to compete for a clerk post. Overall point is if
> scribe qualification is slightly less than what the job is needed should be
> enough. If at all that less qualification is a mandate.
>
> Regards,
>
> Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
> Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com
>
> Let's create an inclusive web!
>
> Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:41 PM, George Abraham  wrote:
>
>> Just would like to point out that the caliber of a Ph.D is definitely
>> higher than a 12th passed. Insisting on the Ph.D to use a 11th passed
>> scribe might be a disservice to him. A point to ponder!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:44 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Hi
>> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a clerk
>> for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 candidates one a
>> post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to consider for the job
>> is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
>> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in this
>> case.
>>
>> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. Mentioned
>> it for illustration purpose.
>>
>> Harish.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled. 
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> hi friends!
>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
>> different qualification.
>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing
>> for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both
>> candidates?
>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be
>> injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
>> candidate
>> will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> > Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>> > what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>> > past I have always looked for graduates.
>> >
>> > On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> >> Congrats!
>> >> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>> >> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>> >> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>> >>
>> >> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>> >> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> >> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> >> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> >> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> >> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>> >>
>> >> 0712 2806846
>> >>
>> >> President
>> >> VIBEWA
>> >> Co-Moderator
>> >> VIB-India
>> >>
>> >> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>> >> laughter.
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> >> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> >> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>> >> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> >> concerning the disabled.'
>> >> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>> >>
>> >> Sorry folks for not r

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Prashant Ranjan Verma]

It is unfortunate that the present progressive and rights based exam writing 
guidelines are being tinkered with. Instead of modifications, it should have 
been uniformly implemented all over the country. 

If some problems were being observed, arrangements should have been made for 
stronger invigilation. 
May be a complete video + audio recording of each blind candidate with scribe  
could be done. It is not so expensive and I think cost is anyway not the reason 
for the changes being proposed. 
The videos of successful candidates could then be evaluated and compared with 
the answer sheets. The fear of   being in complete CCTV surveillance would 
deter much of the wrong practices. 

These days the election voting, some court hearings, interrogations etc. are 
being video graphed. why can't the   same government agree for video graphy of 
exams? 

If not this, why cant the government appoint invigilator for each blind 
candidate or at least one invigilator for 2 blind candidates.

Accessibility of the question paper and method of evaluation is a separate 
issue which needs to be pursued with each examining body in parallel.

Imagine the government appointed pool of scribes offering the blind candidates 
additional service on some payment.  If blind candidates are being accused of 
malpractices, the scribe pool can also become corrupt with time. 

Who wants to give a guarantee that knowledge is related to academic 
qualifications only? Why can't a less qualified person be capable of solving 
questions of a higher exam? and in the same way are all post graduates capable 
of doing well in the class 12 exams even now? Fixing scribe qualifications is 
not a good idea, it will not solve the problem. 

thanks,
Prashant 
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Sudeshna Bhattacharya
Sent: 27 June 2018 15:05
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi Friends,
On reading this very interesting and extremely useful discussion, I could not 
stop from expressing my observations and view there of.
Firstly in a country like India where there is a huge number of unemployed 
youth, it will not be that easy to curb malpractices of various types in 
writing exams. We are thinking of malpractices that can be caused by using 
scribes by VI candidates only, but it can happen with any other candidates as 
well by any other type  of wrong attitude..  So why to stop VI candidates from 
choosing scribe of their own as it was before? Is it the only malpractice going 
on while writing any exam?Here I’d like to mention that I don’t support 
malpractices by VI but when finding a scribe itself is a great
challenge- particularly in semi urban or rural areas, putting even more 
restriction will make the chance of getting a scribe even more limited..
Secondly I feel, even if the exam authority can build up a pool of scribes and 
provides scribe mandatorily to the candidates who are to use their services,is 
there any guarantee that every one of them will be of same qualification or 
merit? Moreover if a VI candidate finds a scribe provided by the authority not 
suitable for him / her to write the exam only two days before the exam, how the 
authority will provide him / her a suitable one within that very short 
time?won’t it be an extreme injustice  towards him / her and don’t you feel it 
will create a tremendous mental pressure on the candidate?
Thirdly, if we think the case of any exam for any other people, aren’t there 
any differences amongst the candidates in regard to qualification and merit? E. 
g. in any clerical exam do all the candidates hold the same HS qualification? 
Still lots of HS candidates are appearing the exam knowing fully well that 
there is very high possibility of  many candidates with much higher degree and 
efficiency being his / her competitor. isn’t it?
Fourthly, if we talk about professional scribes and malpractices caused by 
them, lowering educational qualification doesn’t seem to be a viable solution 
because in that case, persons interested to be a scribe in profession, will 
learn the subjects of competitive exams only irrespective of their 
qualification and master it. Hence putting restriction on scribe selection can 
neither rule out the possibility of malpractice, nor the use of professional 
scribes’ service.
Fifth, digital media like EVM, audio recorder for submitting exam papers is a 
time taken process in Indian Infrastructural scenario and its efficiency is 
also debatable.
Finally, when our objective is to see the well being of the VI community as a 
whole, and at the same time getting a suitable scribe is really tough task,just 
in an attempt to eliminate malpractice and use of professional scribes, I 
think, instead of putting restriction on scribe selection process and blaming 
our own community  for using unethical means, we should

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Srinivasu Chakravarthula]

George,
I think it was used to illustrate the scenario. Well, firstly PhD candidate
shouldn't be applying to compete for a clerk post. Overall point is if
scribe qualification is slightly less than what the job is needed should be
enough. If at all that less qualification is a mandate.

Regards,

Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com

Let's create an inclusive web!

Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica


On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:41 PM, George Abraham  wrote:

> Just would like to point out that the caliber of a Ph.D is definitely
> higher than a 12th passed. Insisting on the Ph.D to use a 11th passed
> scribe might be a disservice to him. A point to ponder!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:44 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi
> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a clerk
> for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 candidates one a
> post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to consider for the job
> is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in this
> case.
>
> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. Mentioned
> it for illustration purpose.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing
> for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both
> candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be
> injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed candidate
> will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> > Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
> > what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
> > past I have always looked for graduates.
> >
> > On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
> >> Congrats!
> >> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
> >> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
> >> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
> >>
> >> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
> >> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
> >>
> >>
> >> सादर / With thanks & Regards
> >> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
> >> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
> >> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
> >> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
> >>
> >> 0712 2806846
> >>
> >> President
> >> VIBEWA
> >> Co-Moderator
> >> VIB-India
> >>
> >> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
> >> laughter.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> >> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
> >> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
> >> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
> >> concerning the disabled.'
> >> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
> >>
> >> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
> >> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
> >>
> >> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
> >> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
> >> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
> >>
> >> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
> because
> >> no one really implemented the guidelines.
> >>
> >> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
> >> these
> >> guidelines were unfair.
> >>
> >> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines
> gave
> >> them the right to have over

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Sudeshna Bhattacharya]

Hi Friends,
On reading this very interesting and extremely useful discussion, I
could not stop from expressing my observations and view there of.
Firstly in a country like India where there is a huge number of
unemployed youth, it will not be that easy to curb malpractices of
various types in writing exams. We are thinking of malpractices that
can be caused by using scribes by VI candidates only, but it can
happen with any other candidates as well by any other type  of wrong
attitude..  So why to stop VI candidates from choosing scribe of their
own as it was before? Is it the only malpractice going on while
writing any exam?Here I’d like to mention that I don’t support
malpractices by VI but when finding a scribe itself is a great
challenge- particularly in semi urban or rural areas, putting even
more restriction will make the chance of getting a scribe even more
limited..
Secondly I feel, even if the exam authority can build up a pool of
scribes and provides scribe mandatorily to the candidates who are to
use their services,is there any guarantee that every one of them will
be of same qualification or merit? Moreover if a VI candidate finds a
scribe provided by the authority not suitable for him / her to write
the exam only two days before the exam, how the authority will provide
him / her a suitable one within that very short time?won’t it be an
extreme injustice  towards him / her and don’t you feel it will create
a tremendous mental pressure on the candidate?
Thirdly, if we think the case of any exam for any other people, aren’t
there any differences amongst the candidates in regard to
qualification and merit? E. g. in any clerical exam do all the
candidates hold the same HS qualification? Still lots of HS candidates
are appearing the exam knowing fully well that there is very high
possibility of  many candidates with much higher degree and efficiency
being his / her competitor. isn’t it?
Fourthly, if we talk about professional scribes and malpractices
caused by them, lowering educational qualification doesn’t seem to be
a viable solution because in that case, persons interested to be a
scribe in profession, will learn the subjects of competitive exams
only irrespective of their qualification and master it. Hence putting
restriction on scribe selection can neither rule out the possibility
of malpractice, nor the use of professional scribes’ service.
Fifth, digital media like EVM, audio recorder for submitting exam
papers is a time taken process in Indian Infrastructural scenario and
its efficiency is also debatable.
Finally, when our objective is to see the well being of the VI
community as a whole, and at the same time getting a suitable scribe
is really tough task,just in an attempt to eliminate malpractice and
use of professional scribes, I think, instead of putting restriction
on scribe selection process and blaming our own community  for using
unethical means, we should rely on the basic ethics of our own
community  and prepare for the exams to come. the scribe selection
should be with the candidates only to ensure availability and prior
exam interaction. The responsibility to curb the malpractice should
lie with the exam authority’s stringent invigilation  as well. For
providing Independent writing experience to the candidates, the online
exam platform should be fully accessible and the specified computers
should be equipped with open source assistive softwares.

All your criticisms against my view are most welcome.

Thanks and regards,
Sudeshna Bhattacharya



On 6/27/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>
> In reply to your 2.At the harshest level I can suggest that you ask the
> Examining Authorities to get you a writer. Also there is a rule of not less
> than matriculation. So 9th standard is not required.
> As far as 3 is concerned  yes your brother will have different level of
> writer.
> This is to prevent your brother from having a overqualified scribe.
> Please understand that this matter has been going on for 12 years. We are
> reviewing the 2013 guidelines only because some of us decided to circumvent
> the law .. -
> Kanchan
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Yogesh Chhabra
> Sent: 26 June 2018 19:23
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> respected members and kanchan mam,
> after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and situations
> which I am unable to see the solutions, 1, according to the proposed
> guidelines, the scribe should be one class below the candidates
> qualification then suppose if I am a language student like German and I am
> appearing for my first year exam. At this time who will be my scribe? whom
> should I take as a scribe for my first year examination? I am asking this
> because no one can read german

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

In reply to your 2.At the harshest level I can suggest that you ask the 
Examining Authorities to get you a writer. Also there is a rule of not less 
than matriculation. So 9th standard is not required.
As far as 3 is concerned  yes your brother will have different level of writer. 
This is to prevent your brother from having a overqualified scribe. 
Please understand that this matter has been going on for 12 years. We are 
reviewing the 2013 guidelines only because some of us decided to circumvent the 
law .. -
Kanchan
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Yogesh Chhabra
Sent: 26 June 2018 19:23
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

respected members and kanchan mam,
after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and situations which 
I am unable to see the solutions, 1, according to the proposed guidelines, the 
scribe should be one class below the candidates qualification then suppose if I 
am a language student like German and I am appearing for my first year exam. At 
this time who will be my scribe? whom should I take as a scribe for my first 
year examination? I am asking this because no one can read german or any other 
language and according to this situation I need to take one class lower scribe, 
that means in my case the 12th standard or below 12th class student. similarly, 
there are many courses in JNU and other universities like French, Spanish, ETC. 
who will be the scribe for such students in their first year course?
2. If I am a student of 11th standard and I have taken maths as one of my 
subject then I have to take 10th standard student as my scribe, but at the time 
of my examinations, the 10th standard students are also having their 
examination so I have no choice and I have to take 9th standard student to 
write my math examination. here the situation is that the 11th standard math 
and 9th standard's math is totally different and most of the things will be new 
for the scribe and he will find it difficult to read it for me. so in this 
situation, who will be my scribe?
3. suppose me and my brother are appearing for the railway examination and we 
both are visually impaired. my qualification is post graduate and my brother's 
qualification is 12th standard and both are eligible for this examination. 
according to the proposed scribe guidelines, I can take the scribe who is 
pursuing post graduation and my brother can take the 11th standard scribe only.
This situation will occur in the SSC 12th standard higher secondary level 
examination also.

so friends, what are the solutions for these situations?

On 6/26/18, Siva Suresh  wrote:
> waw! amazing discussion. it was very helpful and people will be 
> greatly benifited if we have a strong guidelines for getting scribes.
> at the same time we should support the people who are talking on our 
> behalf. I thank Kanchan for your great effort to support every 
> visually impaired friends across india. it was a very helpful 
> discussion for every one.
>
> Thank you. Shivasuresh
>
>
> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> Shweta please don’t say you cant get a scribe because the Authorities 
>> are saying that they will provide and we don’t have to worry.
>> All my effort will go to nought.
>> K
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>> Sent: 26 June 2018 16:30
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> but bhawani sir, it'll be very difficult for many candidates to get a 
>> good studying scribe,because these days, students are very busy in 
>> their own assignments. then how will they be able to  give their 
>> precious time to some one?
>>
>> On 6/26/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:
>>> the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what the 
>>> post requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk exam 
>>> requires minimum 12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th standard.
>>> no matter the education of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this 
>>> means a PHD qualified candidate can bring 11th pass person for scribe.
>>> only the regular students or studying candidates should be allowed 
>>> as scribe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Shweta Mishra
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>> concerning the disabled.
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

I would think that if the University approaches you then minimum matriculation 
and no other restriction except that the writer and candidate must meet 2 days 
in advance. 
In case the candidate approaches you then the only restriction is that the 
writer must be less qualified than the candidate. 
Kanchan 

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Dhananjay Bhole
Sent: 27 June 2018 13:35
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Dear All,


Very important discussion going on.
I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions providing 
scribe from their side?
Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I have to 
provide scribes to students appearing exam in university department and 
affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior person like research 
associate or teaching assistant who acts as a scribe and superviser as well. Is 
it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful to students 
with visual impairment as such persons can understand what student is dictating.
Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to coordinator 
of disability support service for specific cases such as what type of scribe 
should be provided to MBA student. Whether the scribe should be from non 
management non commerce background? I suggest them that the scribe should be 
from same discipline but 1 year lower qualification. EG if student is appearing 
second year MCA the scribe should be from First year MCA or lower. Not from 
social science background. If student is comfortable with other stream, they 
can go for it.

Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience of 
students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes as well 
which provides scribes to students.

I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam who was 
not able to understand and read and write several terminologies of science and 
mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if scribe is 
provided by institutes conducting exams.

Regards
On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with 
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is 
> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe 
> criteria for both candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it 
> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed 
> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean 
>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the 
>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> Congrats!
>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in 
>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and 
>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>
>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>
>>>
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>
>>> 0712 2806846
>>>
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>>
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and 
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already 
>>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>>
>>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and 
>>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>>
>>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>>> because
>>> no one really

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Dhananjay Please get in touch with Rosy at NCPEDP. Kanchan  

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Dhananjay Bhole
Sent: 27 June 2018 13:57
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hello Bhagyashri,

blaming examination system and syllabus is not good. requesting consession
for persons with disabilities will not be going to solve problem. The
reasoning, logic and quantitative aptitude is only matriculation and +2
level. Since students with visual impairment do not take interest in
mathematics and allied abstract cources even in secondary schools level
throw them in to challenges. Preparing for compitative exams requires
dedication. Only filling forms and appearing exam with little preparation
cannot qualify exams. I have appeared for IBPS HR scale 1 exam with
preparation and qualified in 2011. That may be due to my science background.
But I also didn't have mathematics in 8,9th, and 10th standard. I learn
engineering mathematics like calculus, differential equation while pursuing
my M.Sc. bioinformatics. I think we should not demand consession. Instead we
should demand facilities and get ready for challenges.

Regards
On 6/27/18, Mujeeb Rahman  wrote:
> Hi
>
> Good discussion going on.. and would like to add the following points too.
>
> 1. Scribe should not be overqualified than the post qualification to 
> avoid malpractices. However, for academical purposes, a seporate guide 
> line should be framed.
> 2 Scribe should be provided by the authorities to make sure the 
> availability.
> 3. . must be permitted to interact with the scribe before the exam to 
> brief him .
> 4. The guideline should be applicable to all the examining authorities 
> including state PSCs.
> As far as the Kerala PSC is concerned, the situation is worse and we a 
> group of candidates are seeking the legal possibilities to amend the 
> prevailing rules as its yet to follow the RPWD act 2018. Request 
> guidance from Kanchan ma'am and others.
> On 6/25/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already 
>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>
>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and 
>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>
>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>> because
>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>
>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> these
>> guidelines were unfair.
>>
>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>
>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>> complained
>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>
>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>> but
>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>
>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>> meeting on 20th June.
>>
>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>> C
>> and SSC.
>>
>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>> had
>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>
>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our 
>> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>>
>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>
>> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
>> person
>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. 
>> This hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative
down.
>>
>> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The
>> recommendations
>> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>>
>> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
>> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining 
>> body can provide not less than a matriculate.
>>
>> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>>
>> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
>> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the 
>> original guidelines.
>>
>> 17.   

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Dhananjay Bhole]

Hello Bhagyashri,

blaming examination system and syllabus is not good. requesting
consession for persons with disabilities will not be going to solve
problem. The reasoning, logic and quantitative aptitude is only
matriculation and +2  level. Since students with visual impairment do
not take interest in mathematics and allied abstract cources even in
secondary schools level throw them in to challenges. Preparing for
compitative exams requires dedication. Only filling forms and
appearing exam with little preparation cannot qualify exams. I have
appeared for IBPS HR scale 1 exam with preparation and qualified in
2011. That may be due to my science background. But I also didn't have
mathematics in 8,9th, and 10th standard. I learn engineering
mathematics like calculus, differential equation while pursuing my
M.Sc. bioinformatics. I think we should not demand consession. Instead
we should demand facilities and get ready for challenges.

Regards
On 6/27/18, Mujeeb Rahman  wrote:
> Hi
>
> Good discussion going on.. and would like to add the following points too.
>
> 1. Scribe should not be overqualified than the post qualification to
> avoid malpractices. However, for academical purposes, a seporate guide
> line should be framed.
> 2 Scribe should be provided by the authorities to make sure the
> availability.
> 3. . must be permitted to interact with the scribe before the exam to
> brief him .
> 4. The guideline should be applicable to all the examining authorities
> including state PSCs.
> As far as the Kerala PSC is concerned, the situation is worse and we a
> group of candidates are seeking the legal possibilities to amend the
> prevailing rules as its yet to follow the RPWD act 2018. Request
> guidance from Kanchan ma'am and others.
> On 6/25/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
>> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>
>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>
>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>> because
>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>
>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> these
>> guidelines were unfair.
>>
>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>
>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>> complained
>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>
>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>> but
>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>
>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>> meeting on 20th June.
>>
>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>> C
>> and SSC.
>>
>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>> had
>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>
>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
>> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>>
>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>
>> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
>> person
>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
>> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>>
>> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The
>> recommendations
>> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>>
>> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
>> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body
>> can
>> provide not less than a matriculate.
>>
>> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>>
>> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
>> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the
>> original
>> guidelines.
>>
>> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they
>> are
>> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should
>> not
>> be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have
>> used
>> their own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may
>> be
>> considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.
>>
>> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less
>> in
>> qualification than the candidate.
>>
>> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
>> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification
>> for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground
>> realities will tell.
>>

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Dhananjay Bhole]

Dear All,


Very important discussion going on.
I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions
providing scribe from their side?
Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I
have to provide scribes to students appearing exam in university
department and affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior
person like research associate or teaching assistant who acts as a
scribe and superviser as well. Is it allowed? This practice eliminate
mal practices and also helpful to students with visual impairment as
such persons can understand what student is dictating.
Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to
coordinator of disability support service for specific cases such as
what type of scribe should be provided to MBA student. Whether the
scribe should be from non management non commerce background? I
suggest them that the scribe should be from same discipline but 1
year lower qualification. EG if student is appearing second year MCA
the scribe should be from First year MCA or lower. Not from social
science background. If student is comfortable with other stream, they
can go for it.

Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience
of students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes
as well which provides scribes to students.

I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam
who was not able to understand and read and write several
terminologies of science and mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if
scribe is provided by institutes conducting exams.

Regards
On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
> criteria for both candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it
> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> Congrats!
>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in qualification
>>> than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and meet the scribe two
>>> days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>
>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>
>>>
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
>>> नागपुर Nagpur
>>>
>>> 0712 2806846
>>>
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>>
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning
>>> the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
>>> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>>
>>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>>
>>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>>> because
>>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>>
>>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>>> these
>>> guidelines were unfair.
>>>
>>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>>
>>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>>> complained
>>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>>
>>>

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[BHAGYASHREE GANDHI]

I have been giving Banking exams since 4 years.
 But, could not clear in-spite of all necessary efforts, due to very
high cutoff of visually impaired catagory resulting out of scribe
misuse.
 The main reason for scribe misuse is due to the existing patern of
most competitive exams.
 If the patern of exam continues as it is, then it is imposible for a
completely visually impaired candidate to clear without scribe
interfearence.
 Even if the scribe guidelines are changed, or the exam is made
accessible, the problem is not going to be solved, as the patern will
be the same.
 Firstly, There are some very complicated questions in Quantitative
aptitude and reasoning sections, which generally the scribes are not
in a position to explain a totally blind candidate.
 I feel, the solution on this problem is, the patern of competitive
exams should be changed.
 Then only a visually impaired candidate will be able to independently
solve the paper.
 Secondly, Just by making the exam accessible with screen reader won't
work, if the patern of questions, pertaining to reasoning and aptitude
sections remains the same.

 Kindly request you to take the above mentioned issues in to
consideration before finalising the decission.
On 6/25/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>
> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>
> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>
> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
> guidelines were unfair.
>
> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>
> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
> complained
> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>
> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>
> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
> meeting on 20th June.
>
> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
> and SSC.
>
> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
> had
> gone to meet the Minister.
>
> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>
> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>
> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
> person
> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>
> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>
> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body
> can
> provide not less than a matriculate.
>
> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>
> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the
> original
> guidelines.
>
> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should
> not
> be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have used
> their own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may be
> considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.
>
> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less
> in
> qualification than the candidate.
>
> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification
> for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground
> realities will tell.
>
> 20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 cups of
> tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report to the
> courts.
>
> 21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is going to
> be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and each of
> you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the situation. You
> are
> responsible for what lies ahead. I know the argument about supervision.
>
> 22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2 people. We
> did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many weren't.
> However it 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Mujeeb Rahman]

Hi

Good discussion going on.. and would like to add the following points too.

1. Scribe should not be overqualified than the post qualification to
avoid malpractices. However, for academical purposes, a seporate guide
line should be framed.
2 Scribe should be provided by the authorities to make sure the availability.
3. . must be permitted to interact with the scribe before the exam to
brief him .
4. The guideline should be applicable to all the examining authorities
including state PSCs.
As far as the Kerala PSC is concerned, the situation is worse and we a
group of candidates are seeking the legal possibilities to amend the
prevailing rules as its yet to follow the RPWD act 2018. Request
guidance from Kanchan ma'am and others.
On 6/25/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>
> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>
> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>
> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
> guidelines were unfair.
>
> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>
> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
> complained
> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>
> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>
> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
> meeting on 20th June.
>
> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
> and SSC.
>
> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
> had
> gone to meet the Minister.
>
> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>
> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>
> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
> person
> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>
> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>
> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body
> can
> provide not less than a matriculate.
>
> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>
> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the
> original
> guidelines.
>
> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should
> not
> be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have used
> their own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may be
> considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.
>
> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less
> in
> qualification than the candidate.
>
> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification
> for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground
> realities will tell.
>
> 20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 cups of
> tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report to the
> courts.
>
> 21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is going to
> be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and each of
> you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the situation. You
> are
> responsible for what lies ahead. I know the argument about supervision.
>
> 22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2 people. We
> did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many weren't.
> However it has taken lots of persuasion, anger, raised voices and a lot of
> diplomacy.
>
> 23.   What will let us down is the continuous  use of professional scribes.
>
>
> 24.   Please help by giving me the reference to the Bombay High Court and
> Eranakulam cases. We will have to intervene.
>
> 25.   Thanks to each of you who respond to my urgent requests and give your
> input on these crucial issues.
>
> 26.   It has been 12 years battling this menace. I wish I dint have to face
> a 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Siva Suresh]

dear rajesh sir.

I think it would be nice if the laptops are allowed for writing
descriptive Exams and the audio device with buttens for MCq papers can
make us very confident in taking exams.

Thank you

On 6/27/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
> I support audio player with buttons for MCQ papers.
> But, audio files for descriptive papers would change the very nature of exam
> and valuation will also not be proper.
>
>
> सादर / With thanks & Regards
> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
> नागपुर Nagpur
>
> 0712 2806846
>
> President
> VIBEWA
> Co-Moderator
> VIB-India
>
> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
> laughter.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Siva Suresh
> Sent: 27 June 2018 09:52
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> good suggestion! if this can come visually impaired people can be more
> independent in writing Exams and that can avoid mal practices.
>
> On 6/27/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:
>> in my opinion, an audio player should be developed like an EVM
>> machine. on which a blind candidate can listen the question and can
>> press the appropriate button for the answer. filling of roll numbers
>> etc can also be digitised by that way. for descriptive papers,
>> submition of audio file should be allowed.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Ashish Jha
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 10:43 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I believe that the intension to allow one grade junier candidate as
>> scribe is to prevent malpractises and curb the use of professional
>> scribes.
>> Let us assume a situation. A VI candidate is appearing for Bank PO
>> examination or CAT which has graduation as eligibility. Ideally, as
>> per proposed guidelines, the scribe should be less than a graduate.
>> So, my understanding is that the scribe can be under graduate who is
>> studying in first or second year of the graduation. Now, let say that
>> the scribe is an IITian studying in 1st or 2nd year or in similar
>> premier institutions, considering him/her to be good enough in
>> mathematical/reasoning skills.
>> So, are we able to prevent the mal practise here with reducing the
>> eligibility criteria of the scribe? This is my dout please.
>>
>> I think a deep thoughts should be given before concluding, so that it
>> should not become a real challenge for a deserving candidate in
>> appearing examination and giving their best. There are instances,
>> specially in remote and small urban areas where deserving candidate
>> struggle with getting scribe and adding further limitations may turn
>> things more complicated for them. This can further be thought for the
>> North Eastern areas where again literacy is not very significant and
>> they need to rely on their limited resources.
>> Presently, I believe, there are  only few institutions like UPSC where
>> a candidate can opt for a scribe of the institution itself, if they
>> find difficult to manage their own scribe.
>>
>> I believe that the vigillant system shall be strengthened at very
>> first level by the examiner. I can recall, an Provisional IPS was
>> caught last year while writing UPSC CS Mains examination while using
>> his digital device. So, similar vigilant system shall be there while
>> VI writing his/her examination.
>>
>> Yes, I am in line if laptop is allowed as an alternative solution, but
>> the care should be taken about the accessibility of the design of the
>> question paper. I think this can go in long run.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Yogesh Chhabra  wrote:
>>> respected members and kanchan mam,
>>> after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and
>>> situations which I am unable to see the solutions, 1, according to
>>> the proposed guidelines, the scribe should be one class below the
>>> candidates qualification then suppose if I am a language student like
>>> German and I am appearing for my first year exam. At this time who
>>> will be my scribe? whom should I take as a scribe for my first year
>>> examination? I am asking this because no one can read german or any
>>> other language and according to t

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Asudani, Rajesh]

I support audio player with buttons for MCQ papers.
But, audio files for descriptive papers would change the very nature of exam 
and valuation will also not be proper.


सादर / With thanks & Regards
राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
नागपुर Nagpur

0712 2806846

President
VIBEWA
Co-Moderator
VIB-India

A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and laughter.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Siva Suresh
Sent: 27 June 2018 09:52
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

good suggestion! if this can come visually impaired people can be more 
independent in writing Exams and that can avoid mal practices.

On 6/27/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:
> in my opinion, an audio player should be developed like an EVM
> machine. on which a blind candidate can listen the question and can
> press the appropriate button for the answer. filling of roll numbers
> etc can also be digitised by that way. for descriptive papers,
> submition of audio file should be allowed.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ashish Jha
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 10:43 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi,
>
> I believe that the intension to allow one grade junier candidate as
> scribe is to prevent malpractises and curb the use of professional
> scribes.
> Let us assume a situation. A VI candidate is appearing for Bank PO
> examination or CAT which has graduation as eligibility. Ideally, as
> per proposed guidelines, the scribe should be less than a graduate.
> So, my understanding is that the scribe can be under graduate who is
> studying in first or second year of the graduation. Now, let say that
> the scribe is an IITian studying in 1st or 2nd year or in similar
> premier institutions, considering him/her to be good enough in
> mathematical/reasoning skills.
> So, are we able to prevent the mal practise here with reducing the
> eligibility criteria of the scribe? This is my dout please.
>
> I think a deep thoughts should be given before concluding, so that it
> should not become a real challenge for a deserving candidate in
> appearing examination and giving their best. There are instances,
> specially in remote and small urban areas where deserving candidate
> struggle with getting scribe and adding further limitations may turn
> things more complicated for them. This can further be thought for the
> North Eastern areas where again literacy is not very significant and
> they need to rely on their limited resources.
> Presently, I believe, there are  only few institutions like UPSC where
> a candidate can opt for a scribe of the institution itself, if they
> find difficult to manage their own scribe.
>
> I believe that the vigillant system shall be strengthened at very
> first level by the examiner. I can recall, an Provisional IPS was
> caught last year while writing UPSC CS Mains examination while using
> his digital device. So, similar vigilant system shall be there while
> VI writing his/her examination.
>
> Yes, I am in line if laptop is allowed as an alternative solution, but
> the care should be taken about the accessibility of the design of the
> question paper. I think this can go in long run.
>
>
>
> On 6/26/18, Yogesh Chhabra  wrote:
>> respected members and kanchan mam,
>> after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and
>> situations which I am unable to see the solutions, 1, according to
>> the proposed guidelines, the scribe should be one class below the
>> candidates qualification then suppose if I am a language student like
>> German and I am appearing for my first year exam. At this time who
>> will be my scribe? whom should I take as a scribe for my first year
>> examination? I am asking this because no one can read german or any
>> other language and according to this situation I need to take one
>> class lower scribe, that means in my case the 12th standard or below
>> 12th class student. similarly, there are many courses in JNU and
>> other universities like French, Spanish, ETC. who will be the scribe
>> for such students in their first year course?
>> 2. If I am a student of 11th standard and I have taken maths as one
>> of my subject then I have to take 10th standard student as my scribe,
>> but at the time of my examinations, the 10th standard students are
>> also having their examination so I have no choice and I have to take
>> 9th standard student to wr

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Siva Suresh]

good suggestion! if this can come visually impaired people can be more
independent in writing Exams and that can avoid mal practices.

On 6/27/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:
> in my opinion, an audio player should be developed like an EVM machine. on
> which a blind candidate can listen the question and can press the
> appropriate button for the answer. filling of roll numbers etc can also be
> digitised by that way. for descriptive papers, submition of audio file
> should be allowed.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ashish Jha
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 10:43 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi,
>
> I believe that the intension to allow one grade junier candidate as
> scribe is to prevent malpractises and curb the use of professional
> scribes.
> Let us assume a situation. A VI candidate is appearing for Bank PO
> examination or CAT which has graduation as eligibility. Ideally, as
> per proposed guidelines, the scribe should be less than a graduate.
> So, my understanding is that the scribe can be under graduate who is
> studying in first or second year of the graduation. Now, let say that
> the scribe is an IITian studying in 1st or 2nd year or in similar
> premier institutions, considering him/her to be good enough in
> mathematical/reasoning skills.
> So, are we able to prevent the mal practise here with reducing the
> eligibility criteria of the scribe? This is my dout please.
>
> I think a deep thoughts should be given before concluding, so that it
> should not become a real challenge for a deserving candidate in
> appearing examination and giving their best. There are instances,
> specially in remote and small urban areas where deserving candidate
> struggle with getting scribe and adding further limitations may turn
> things more complicated for them. This can further be thought for the
> North Eastern areas where again literacy is not very significant and
> they need to rely on their limited resources.
> Presently, I believe, there are  only few institutions like UPSC where
> a candidate can opt for a scribe of the institution itself, if they
> find difficult to manage their own scribe.
>
> I believe that the vigillant system shall be strengthened at very
> first level by the examiner. I can recall, an Provisional IPS was
> caught last year while writing UPSC CS Mains examination while using
> his digital device. So, similar vigilant system shall be there while
> VI writing his/her examination.
>
> Yes, I am in line if laptop is allowed as an alternative solution, but
> the care should be taken about the accessibility of the design of the
> question paper. I think this can go in long run.
>
>
>
> On 6/26/18, Yogesh Chhabra  wrote:
>> respected members and kanchan mam,
>> after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and
>> situations which I am unable to see the solutions,
>> 1, according to the proposed guidelines, the scribe should be one
>> class below the candidates qualification then suppose if I am a
>> language student like German and I am appearing for my first year
>> exam. At this time who will be my scribe? whom should I take as a
>> scribe for my first year examination? I am asking this because no one
>> can read german or any other language and according to this situation
>> I need to take one class lower scribe, that means in my case the 12th
>> standard or below 12th class student. similarly, there are many
>> courses in JNU and other universities like French, Spanish, ETC. who
>> will be the scribe for such students in their first year course?
>> 2. If I am a student of 11th standard and I have taken maths as one of
>> my subject then I have to take 10th standard student as my scribe, but
>> at the time of my examinations, the 10th standard students are also
>> having their examination so I have no choice and I have to take 9th
>> standard student to write my math examination. here the situation is
>> that the 11th standard math and 9th standard's math is totally
>> different and most of the things will be new for the scribe and he
>> will find it difficult to read it for me. so in this situation, who
>> will be my scribe?
>> 3. suppose me and my brother are appearing for the railway examination
>> and we both are visually impaired. my qualification is post graduate
>> and my brother's qualification is 12th standard and both are eligible
>> for this examination. according to the proposed scribe guidelines, I
>> can take the scribe who is pursuing post graduation and my brother can
>> take the 11th standard scribe o

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[bhawani shankar verma]

in my opinion, an audio player should be developed like an EVM machine. on 
which a blind candidate can listen the question and can press the 
appropriate button for the answer. filling of roll numbers etc can also be 
digitised by that way. for descriptive papers, submition of audio file 
should be allowed.




-Original Message- 
From: Ashish Jha

Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 10:43 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning 
the disabled.

Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi,

I believe that the intension to allow one grade junier candidate as
scribe is to prevent malpractises and curb the use of professional
scribes.
Let us assume a situation. A VI candidate is appearing for Bank PO
examination or CAT which has graduation as eligibility. Ideally, as
per proposed guidelines, the scribe should be less than a graduate.
So, my understanding is that the scribe can be under graduate who is
studying in first or second year of the graduation. Now, let say that
the scribe is an IITian studying in 1st or 2nd year or in similar
premier institutions, considering him/her to be good enough in
mathematical/reasoning skills.
So, are we able to prevent the mal practise here with reducing the
eligibility criteria of the scribe? This is my dout please.

I think a deep thoughts should be given before concluding, so that it
should not become a real challenge for a deserving candidate in
appearing examination and giving their best. There are instances,
specially in remote and small urban areas where deserving candidate
struggle with getting scribe and adding further limitations may turn
things more complicated for them. This can further be thought for the
North Eastern areas where again literacy is not very significant and
they need to rely on their limited resources.
Presently, I believe, there are  only few institutions like UPSC where
a candidate can opt for a scribe of the institution itself, if they
find difficult to manage their own scribe.

I believe that the vigillant system shall be strengthened at very
first level by the examiner. I can recall, an Provisional IPS was
caught last year while writing UPSC CS Mains examination while using
his digital device. So, similar vigilant system shall be there while
VI writing his/her examination.

Yes, I am in line if laptop is allowed as an alternative solution, but
the care should be taken about the accessibility of the design of the
question paper. I think this can go in long run.



On 6/26/18, Yogesh Chhabra  wrote:

respected members and kanchan mam,
after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and
situations which I am unable to see the solutions,
1, according to the proposed guidelines, the scribe should be one
class below the candidates qualification then suppose if I am a
language student like German and I am appearing for my first year
exam. At this time who will be my scribe? whom should I take as a
scribe for my first year examination? I am asking this because no one
can read german or any other language and according to this situation
I need to take one class lower scribe, that means in my case the 12th
standard or below 12th class student. similarly, there are many
courses in JNU and other universities like French, Spanish, ETC. who
will be the scribe for such students in their first year course?
2. If I am a student of 11th standard and I have taken maths as one of
my subject then I have to take 10th standard student as my scribe, but
at the time of my examinations, the 10th standard students are also
having their examination so I have no choice and I have to take 9th
standard student to write my math examination. here the situation is
that the 11th standard math and 9th standard's math is totally
different and most of the things will be new for the scribe and he
will find it difficult to read it for me. so in this situation, who
will be my scribe?
3. suppose me and my brother are appearing for the railway examination
and we both are visually impaired. my qualification is post graduate
and my brother's qualification is 12th standard and both are eligible
for this examination. according to the proposed scribe guidelines, I
can take the scribe who is pursuing post graduation and my brother can
take the 11th standard scribe only.
This situation will occur in the SSC 12th standard higher secondary
level examination also.

so friends, what are the solutions for these situations?

On 6/26/18, Siva Suresh  wrote:

waw! amazing discussion. it was very helpful and people will be
greatly benifited if we have a strong guidelines for getting scribes.
at the same time we should support the people who are talking on our
behalf. I thank Kanchan for your great effort to support every
visually impaired friends across india. it was a very helpful
discussion for every one.

Thank you. Shivasuresh


On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
Shweta please don’t say you cant get a scribe because the Authorities 
are

saying

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Pranav Lal]

Hi all,

How does the blind candidate teach the scribe how to  draw a table to make an 
account or how a math symbol looks? What about the alignment needed to write 
equations in organic chemistry? We need to look at the problem functionally 
before we get to qualifications. As of now, the discussion appears to be 
considering only the fraud perspective. In addition, what happens if the 
candidate cannot understand what the scribe is speaking? I have experienced 
this several years ago. The scribe's pronunciation was poor and I did not have 
the time to request him to spell each word. 
I doubt meeting the scribe 2-days before will help because the organizers may 
need time to get another scribe. By the way, what happens if the organizer 
supplied scribe falls ill on exam day? I have had this happen but at that time, 
I was using my own scribe so was able to provide a backup. Yes, a candidate 
should not have to  deal with this but until we get 100% computerization, I 
guess we have to use scribes. Will organizers have a pull of backup scribes?
Pranav





Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Ashish Jha]

Hi,

I believe that the intension to allow one grade junier candidate as
scribe is to prevent malpractises and curb the use of professional
scribes.
Let us assume a situation. A VI candidate is appearing for Bank PO
examination or CAT which has graduation as eligibility. Ideally, as
per proposed guidelines, the scribe should be less than a graduate.
So, my understanding is that the scribe can be under graduate who is
studying in first or second year of the graduation. Now, let say that
the scribe is an IITian studying in 1st or 2nd year or in similar
premier institutions, considering him/her to be good enough in
mathematical/reasoning skills.
So, are we able to prevent the mal practise here with reducing the
eligibility criteria of the scribe? This is my dout please.

I think a deep thoughts should be given before concluding, so that it
should not become a real challenge for a deserving candidate in
appearing examination and giving their best. There are instances,
specially in remote and small urban areas where deserving candidate
struggle with getting scribe and adding further limitations may turn
things more complicated for them. This can further be thought for the
North Eastern areas where again literacy is not very significant and
they need to rely on their limited resources.
Presently, I believe, there are  only few institutions like UPSC where
a candidate can opt for a scribe of the institution itself, if they
find difficult to manage their own scribe.

I believe that the vigillant system shall be strengthened at very
first level by the examiner. I can recall, an Provisional IPS was
caught last year while writing UPSC CS Mains examination while using
his digital device. So, similar vigilant system shall be there while
VI writing his/her examination.

Yes, I am in line if laptop is allowed as an alternative solution, but
the care should be taken about the accessibility of the design of the
question paper. I think this can go in long run.



On 6/26/18, Yogesh Chhabra  wrote:
> respected members and kanchan mam,
> after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and
> situations which I am unable to see the solutions,
> 1, according to the proposed guidelines, the scribe should be one
> class below the candidates qualification then suppose if I am a
> language student like German and I am appearing for my first year
> exam. At this time who will be my scribe? whom should I take as a
> scribe for my first year examination? I am asking this because no one
> can read german or any other language and according to this situation
> I need to take one class lower scribe, that means in my case the 12th
> standard or below 12th class student. similarly, there are many
> courses in JNU and other universities like French, Spanish, ETC. who
> will be the scribe for such students in their first year course?
> 2. If I am a student of 11th standard and I have taken maths as one of
> my subject then I have to take 10th standard student as my scribe, but
> at the time of my examinations, the 10th standard students are also
> having their examination so I have no choice and I have to take 9th
> standard student to write my math examination. here the situation is
> that the 11th standard math and 9th standard's math is totally
> different and most of the things will be new for the scribe and he
> will find it difficult to read it for me. so in this situation, who
> will be my scribe?
> 3. suppose me and my brother are appearing for the railway examination
> and we both are visually impaired. my qualification is post graduate
> and my brother's qualification is 12th standard and both are eligible
> for this examination. according to the proposed scribe guidelines, I
> can take the scribe who is pursuing post graduation and my brother can
> take the 11th standard scribe only.
> This situation will occur in the SSC 12th standard higher secondary
> level examination also.
>
> so friends, what are the solutions for these situations?
>
> On 6/26/18, Siva Suresh  wrote:
>> waw! amazing discussion. it was very helpful and people will be
>> greatly benifited if we have a strong guidelines for getting scribes.
>> at the same time we should support the people who are talking on our
>> behalf. I thank Kanchan for your great effort to support every
>> visually impaired friends across india. it was a very helpful
>> discussion for every one.
>>
>> Thank you. Shivasuresh
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>>> Shweta please don’t say you cant get a scribe because the Authorities are
>>> saying that they will provide and we don’t have to worry.
>>> All my effort will go to nought.
>>> K
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.i

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Sana Samad]

On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> Very interesting analysis. Please explain in which exam this kind of
> situation will occur.
> Also is it not fair to allow a Post graduate  only a 12th Standard scribe?
> Is it not likely that the post graduate will know more than the scribe in
> this case.
> Is the scribe's qualification important in comparison to that of the
> candidate?
> This is only a debate and I do want to hear peoples views.
> Kanchan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Shweta Mishra
> Sent: 26 June 2018 13:51
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing for
> the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both
> candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be
> injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed candidate
> will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> Congrats!
>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>
>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>
>>>
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>
>>> 0712 2806846
>>>
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>>
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
>>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>>
>>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>>
>>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>>> because
>>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>>
>>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>>> these
>>> guidelines were unfair.
>>>
>>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>>
>>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>>> complained
>>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>>
>>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>>> but
>>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>>
>>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>>> meeting on 20th June.
>>>
>>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>>> C
>>> and SSC.
>>>
>>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>>> had
>>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>>
>>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
>>> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>>>
>>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>>
>>> 12.   The problem wit

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Yogesh Chhabra]

respected members and kanchan mam,
after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and
situations which I am unable to see the solutions,
1, according to the proposed guidelines, the scribe should be one
class below the candidates qualification then suppose if I am a
language student like German and I am appearing for my first year
exam. At this time who will be my scribe? whom should I take as a
scribe for my first year examination? I am asking this because no one
can read german or any other language and according to this situation
I need to take one class lower scribe, that means in my case the 12th
standard or below 12th class student. similarly, there are many
courses in JNU and other universities like French, Spanish, ETC. who
will be the scribe for such students in their first year course?
2. If I am a student of 11th standard and I have taken maths as one of
my subject then I have to take 10th standard student as my scribe, but
at the time of my examinations, the 10th standard students are also
having their examination so I have no choice and I have to take 9th
standard student to write my math examination. here the situation is
that the 11th standard math and 9th standard's math is totally
different and most of the things will be new for the scribe and he
will find it difficult to read it for me. so in this situation, who
will be my scribe?
3. suppose me and my brother are appearing for the railway examination
and we both are visually impaired. my qualification is post graduate
and my brother's qualification is 12th standard and both are eligible
for this examination. according to the proposed scribe guidelines, I
can take the scribe who is pursuing post graduation and my brother can
take the 11th standard scribe only.
This situation will occur in the SSC 12th standard higher secondary
level examination also.

so friends, what are the solutions for these situations?

On 6/26/18, Siva Suresh  wrote:
> waw! amazing discussion. it was very helpful and people will be
> greatly benifited if we have a strong guidelines for getting scribes.
> at the same time we should support the people who are talking on our
> behalf. I thank Kanchan for your great effort to support every
> visually impaired friends across india. it was a very helpful
> discussion for every one.
>
> Thank you. Shivasuresh
>
>
> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> Shweta please don’t say you cant get a scribe because the Authorities are
>> saying that they will provide and we don’t have to worry.
>> All my effort will go to nought.
>> K
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Shweta Mishra
>> Sent: 26 June 2018 16:30
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> but bhawani sir, it'll be very difficult for many candidates to get a good
>> studying scribe,because these days, students are very busy in their own
>> assignments. then how will they be able to  give their precious time to
>> some
>> one?
>>
>> On 6/26/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:
>>> the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what the
>>> post requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk exam
>>> requires minimum 12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th standard.
>>> no matter the education of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this
>>> means a PHD qualified candidate can bring 11th pass person for scribe.
>>> only the regular students or studying candidates should be allowed as
>>> scribe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Shweta Mishra
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled.
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> right Kanchan mam.
>>> but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a graduate
>>> scribe, then the twelfth passed candidate should also be allowed to
>>> bring graduate scribe.
>>>
>>> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>>>> No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
>>>> So lets go with the clerk example.
>>>>
>>>> There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass.
>>>> The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can get
>>>> a scribe who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass. Sounds
>>>> unfair but actually it might solve this problem of professional writers.
>>>> Kanchan
>>>>
>>>>

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[George Abraham]

Just would like to point out that the caliber of a Ph.D is definitely higher 
than a 12th passed. Insisting on the Ph.D to use a 11th passed scribe might be 
a disservice to him. A point to ponder!

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Kotian, H P
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:44 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi
If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a clerk  for 
which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 candidates one a post 
graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to consider for the job is HSC 
and not the qualification of the candidate.
Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in this case.

I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. Mentioned it for 
illustration purpose.

Harish.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Shweta Mishra
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

hi friends!
it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with different 
qualification.
for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing for 
the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both 
candidates?
if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be 
injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed candidate 
will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.

On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean 
> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the 
> past I have always looked for graduates.
>
> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> Congrats!
>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in 
>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and 
>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>
>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>
>>
>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>
>> 0712 2806846
>>
>> President
>> VIBEWA
>> Co-Moderator
>> VIB-India
>>
>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and 
>> laughter.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>> concerning the disabled.'
>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already 
>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>
>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and 
>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>
>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>
>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> these
>> guidelines were unfair.
>>
>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>
>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>> complained
>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>
>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>> but
>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>
>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>> meeting on 20th June.
>>
>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>> C
>> and SSC.
>>
>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>> had
>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>
>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our 
>> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>>
>> 11.

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Siva Suresh]

waw! amazing discussion. it was very helpful and people will be
greatly benifited if we have a strong guidelines for getting scribes.
at the same time we should support the people who are talking on our
behalf. I thank Kanchan for your great effort to support every
visually impaired friends across india. it was a very helpful
discussion for every one.

Thank you. Shivasuresh


On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> Shweta please don’t say you cant get a scribe because the Authorities are
> saying that they will provide and we don’t have to worry.
> All my effort will go to nought.
> K
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Shweta Mishra
> Sent: 26 June 2018 16:30
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> but bhawani sir, it'll be very difficult for many candidates to get a good
> studying scribe,because these days, students are very busy in their own
> assignments. then how will they be able to  give their precious time to some
> one?
>
> On 6/26/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:
>> the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what the
>> post requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk exam
>> requires minimum 12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th standard.
>> no matter the education of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this
>> means a PHD qualified candidate can bring 11th pass person for scribe.
>> only the regular students or studying candidates should be allowed as
>> scribe.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Shweta Mishra
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> right Kanchan mam.
>> but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a graduate
>> scribe, then the twelfth passed candidate should also be allowed to
>> bring graduate scribe.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>>> No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
>>> So lets go with the clerk example.
>>>
>>> There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass.
>>> The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can get
>>> a scribe who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass. Sounds
>>> unfair but actually it might solve this problem of professional writers.
>>> Kanchan
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
>>> Sent: 26 June 2018 14:44
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled.
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a
>>> clerk for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2
>>> candidates one a post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification
>>> to consider for the job is HSC and not the qualification of the
>>> candidate.
>>> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in
>>> this case.
>>>
>>> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC.
>>> Mentioned it for illustration purpose.
>>>
>>> Harish.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled. 
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> hi friends!
>>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
>>> different qualification.
>>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
>>> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
>>> criteria for both candidates?
>>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't
>>> it be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth
>>> passed candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed
>>> scribe.
>>>
>>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>>>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>>>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
&g

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Bhiwani and Shweta please don’t forget that there are many exams and there are 
many courses of study. 
K  

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
bhawani shankar verma
Sent: 26 June 2018 16:11
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what the post 
requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk exam requires minimum 
12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th standard. no matter the education 
of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this means a PHD qualified candidate can 
bring 11th pass person for scribe. only the regular students or studying 
candidates should be allowed as scribe.



-Original Message-
From: Shweta Mishra
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

right Kanchan mam.
but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a graduate scribe, 
then the twelfth passed candidate should also be allowed to bring graduate 
scribe.

On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
> So lets go with the clerk example.
>
> There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass.
> The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can get 
> a scribe who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass. Sounds 
> unfair but actually it might solve this problem of professional writers.
> Kanchan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
> Sent: 26 June 2018 14:44
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi
> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a 
> clerk for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 
> candidates one a post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to 
> consider for the job is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in 
> this case.
>
> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. 
> Mentioned it for illustration purpose.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with 
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is 
> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe 
> criteria for both candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it 
> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed 
> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean 
>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the 
>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> Congrats!
>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in 
>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and 
>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>
>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>
>>>
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>
>>> 0712 2806846
>>>
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>>
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and 
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Sorry folks for not 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Shweta please don’t say you cant get a scribe because the Authorities are 
saying that they will provide and we don’t have to worry. 
All my effort will go to nought. 
K 

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Shweta Mishra
Sent: 26 June 2018 16:30
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

but bhawani sir, it'll be very difficult for many candidates to get a good 
studying scribe,because these days, students are very busy in their own 
assignments. then how will they be able to  give their precious time to some 
one?

On 6/26/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:
> the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what the 
> post requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk exam 
> requires minimum 12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th standard. 
> no matter the education of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this 
> means a PHD qualified candidate can bring 11th pass person for scribe. 
> only the regular students or studying candidates should be allowed as scribe.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Shweta Mishra
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> right Kanchan mam.
> but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a graduate 
> scribe, then the twelfth passed candidate should also be allowed to 
> bring graduate scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
>> So lets go with the clerk example.
>>
>> There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass.
>> The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can get 
>> a scribe who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass. Sounds 
>> unfair but actually it might solve this problem of professional writers.
>> Kanchan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
>> Sent: 26 June 2018 14:44
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Hi
>> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a 
>> clerk for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 
>> candidates one a post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification 
>> to consider for the job is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
>> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in 
>> this case.
>>
>> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. 
>> Mentioned it for illustration purpose.
>>
>> Harish.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>> concerning the disabled. 
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> hi friends!
>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with 
>> different qualification.
>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is 
>> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe 
>> criteria for both candidates?
>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't 
>> it be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth 
>> passed candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed 
>> scribe.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean 
>>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the 
>>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>>
>>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>>> Congrats!
>>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in 
>>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and 
>>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>>
>>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Rese

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Shweta Mishra]

but bhawani sir, it'll be very difficult for many candidates to get a
good studying scribe,because these days, students are very busy in
their own assignments. then how will they be able to  give their
precious time to some one?

On 6/26/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:
> the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what the post
> requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk exam requires
> minimum 12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th standard. no matter the
> education of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this means a PHD qualified
> candidate can bring 11th pass person for scribe. only the regular students
> or studying candidates should be allowed as scribe.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Shweta Mishra
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> right Kanchan mam.
> but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a graduate
> scribe, then the twelfth passed candidate should also be allowed to
> bring graduate scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
>> So lets go with the clerk example.
>>
>> There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass.
>> The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can get a
>> scribe who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass. Sounds unfair
>> but actually it might solve this problem of professional writers.
>> Kanchan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Kotian, H P
>> Sent: 26 June 2018 14:44
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Hi
>> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a clerk
>> for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 candidates one a
>> post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to consider for the job
>> is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
>> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in this
>> case.
>>
>> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. Mentioned
>> it
>> for illustration purpose.
>>
>> Harish.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Shweta Mishra
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled. 
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> hi friends!
>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
>> different qualification.
>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing
>> for
>> the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both
>> candidates?
>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be
>> injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
>> candidate
>> will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>>
>>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>>> Congrats!
>>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>>
>>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>>
>>>> 0712 2806846
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>> VIBEWA
>>>> Co-Moderator
>>>> VIB-India
>>>>
>>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>>>> laughter.
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:acces

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[bhawani shankar verma]

the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what the post 
requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk exam requires 
minimum 12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th standard. no matter the 
education of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this means a PHD qualified 
candidate can bring 11th pass person for scribe. only the regular students 
or studying candidates should be allowed as scribe.




-Original Message- 
From: Shweta Mishra

Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning 
the disabled.

Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

right Kanchan mam.
but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a graduate
scribe, then the twelfth passed candidate should also be allowed to
bring graduate scribe.

On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:

No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
So lets go with the clerk example.

There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass.
The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can get a
scribe who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass. Sounds unfair
but actually it might solve this problem of professional writers.
Kanchan

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
Behalf

Of Kotian, H P
Sent: 26 June 2018 14:44
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi
If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a clerk
for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 candidates one a
post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to consider for the job
is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in this
case.

I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. Mentioned 
it

for illustration purpose.

Harish.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
Behalf

Of Shweta Mishra
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

hi friends!
it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
different qualification.
for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing 
for

the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both
candidates?
if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be
injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed 
candidate

will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.

On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:

Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
past I have always looked for graduates.

On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:

Congrats!
Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.

At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.


सादर / With thanks & Regards
राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur

0712 2806846

President
VIBEWA
Co-Moderator
VIB-India

A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
laughter.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
concerning the disabled.'
Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
heard what happened but let me explain a few issues

1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.

2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
because
no one really implemented the guidelines.

3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
these
guidelines were unfair.

4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines 
gave

them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.

5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
complained
to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.

6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
but
could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.

7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
meeting on 20th June.

8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U 
PS

C
and

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Shweta Mishra]

right Kanchan mam.
but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a graduate
scribe, then the twelfth passed candidate should also be allowed to
bring graduate scribe.

On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
> So lets go with the clerk example.
>
> There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass.
> The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can get a
> scribe who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass. Sounds unfair
> but actually it might solve this problem of professional writers.
> Kanchan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Kotian, H P
> Sent: 26 June 2018 14:44
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi
> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a clerk
> for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 candidates one a
> post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to consider for the job
> is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in this
> case.
>
> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. Mentioned it
> for illustration purpose.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Shweta Mishra
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing for
> the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both
> candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be
> injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed candidate
> will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> Congrats!
>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>
>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>
>>>
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>
>>> 0712 2806846
>>>
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>>
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
>>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>>
>>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>>
>>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>>> because
>>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>>
>>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>>> these
>>> guidelines were unfair.
>>>
>>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>>
>>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>>> complained
>>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I a

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
So lets go with the clerk example. 

There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass. 
The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can get a scribe 
who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass. Sounds unfair but actually 
it might solve this problem of professional writers. 
Kanchan  

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Kotian, H P
Sent: 26 June 2018 14:44
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi
If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a clerk  for 
which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 candidates one a post 
graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to consider for the job is HSC 
and not the qualification of the candidate.
Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in this case.

I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. Mentioned it for 
illustration purpose.

Harish.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Shweta Mishra
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

hi friends!
it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with different 
qualification.
for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing for 
the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both 
candidates?
if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be 
injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed candidate 
will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.

On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean 
> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the 
> past I have always looked for graduates.
>
> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> Congrats!
>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in 
>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and 
>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>
>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>
>>
>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>
>> 0712 2806846
>>
>> President
>> VIBEWA
>> Co-Moderator
>> VIB-India
>>
>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and 
>> laughter.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>> concerning the disabled.'
>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already 
>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>
>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and 
>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>
>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>
>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> these
>> guidelines were unfair.
>>
>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>
>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>> complained
>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>
>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>> but
>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>
>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>> meeting on 20th June.
>>
>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>> C
>> and SSC.
>>
>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>> had
>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>
>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>> the subcommi

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Please help!. 
Send me the details of the Ernakulam and Bombay High Court cases. 
Kanchan 

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Asudani, Rajesh
Sent: 26 June 2018 10:28
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Congrats!
Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in qualification than 
oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and meet the scribe two days in 
advance is a superb victory.

At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.


सादर / With thanks & Regards
राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur

0712 2806846

President
VIBEWA
Co-Moderator
VIB-India

A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and laughter.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Kanchan Pamnani
Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.'
Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard what 
happened but let me explain a few issues

1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and definitely 
more than what we had demanded at different times.

2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
no one really implemented the guidelines.

3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
guidelines were unfair.

4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.

5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers complained
to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.

6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.

7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
meeting on 20th June.

8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
and SSC.

9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary had
gone to meet the Minister.

10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our comments 
when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.

11.   It was quite a hot debate.

12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same person
to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This hampers 
progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.

13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
of the Sub-committee were accepted.

14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body can 
provide not less than a matriculate.

15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.

16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the original 
guidelines.

17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should not be 
in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have used their 
own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may be 
considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.

18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less in
qualification than the candidate.

19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification for a 
scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground realities will 
tell.

20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 cups of
tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report to the courts.

21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is going to
be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and each of you 
reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the situation. You are 
responsible for what lies ahead. I know the argument about supervision.

22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2 people. We
did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many weren't.
However it has taken lots of persuasion, anger, raised voices and a lot of 
diplomacy.

23.   What will let us down is the continuous  use of professi

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kotian, H P]

Hi
If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a clerk  for 
which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 candidates one a post 
graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to consider for the job is HSC 
and not the qualification of the candidate.
Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in this case.

I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. Mentioned it for 
illustration purpose.

Harish.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Shweta Mishra
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

hi friends!
it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with different 
qualification.
for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing for 
the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both 
candidates?
if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be 
injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed candidate 
will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.

On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
> past I have always looked for graduates.
>
> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> Congrats!
>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>
>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>
>>
>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>
>> 0712 2806846
>>
>> President
>> VIBEWA
>> Co-Moderator
>> VIB-India
>>
>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>> laughter.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.'
>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>
>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>
>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>
>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> these
>> guidelines were unfair.
>>
>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>
>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>> complained
>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>
>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>> but
>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>
>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>> meeting on 20th June.
>>
>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>> C
>> and SSC.
>>
>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>> had
>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>
>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
>> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>>
>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>
>> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
>> person
>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH.
>> This hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative 
>> down.
>>
>> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
>> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>>
>> 14.   So what have we won or s

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Shweta Mishra]

hi canchan mam!
this kind of situation will occur. in all the exam where the minimum
eligibility criteria for the candidate is twelfth passed or less.

On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> Please continue current practises. When the guidelines change you will be
> informed.
> Status quo as of today.
> Kanchan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Lyngdoh
> Sent: 26 June 2018 13:12
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean what
> qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the past I have
> always looked for graduates.
>
> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> Congrats!
>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>
>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>
>>
>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>
>> 0712 2806846
>>
>> President
>> VIBEWA
>> Co-Moderator
>> VIB-India
>>
>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>> laughter.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.'
>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>
>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>
>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>
>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> these
>> guidelines were unfair.
>>
>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>
>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>> complained
>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>
>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>> but
>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>
>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>> meeting on 20th June.
>>
>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>> C
>> and SSC.
>>
>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>> had
>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>
>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
>> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>>
>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>
>> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
>> person
>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
>> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>>
>> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
>> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>>
>> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
>> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining
>> body can provide not less than a matriculate.
>>
>> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>>
>> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
>> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the
>> original guidelines.
>>
>> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they
>> are
>> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this
&g

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Amit Jain]

Though i could not think of many such situation where a scenario presented
will happen. I also agree to the point that qualification of a scribe, in
an ideal scenario, should be a concern but can there be alternative such as
qualification of scribe determined by the minimum qualifucation for the
exam/post like if it is graduate that scribe should not be graduate even
though person taking the exam is a PhD

Just a thought

Regards
Amit Jain

On Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 14:08 Kanchan Pamnani, 
wrote:

> Very interesting analysis. Please explain in which exam this kind of
> situation will occur.
> Also is it not fair to allow a Post graduate  only a 12th Standard scribe?
> Is it not likely that the post graduate will know more than the scribe in
> this case.
> Is the scribe's qualification important in comparison to that of the
> candidate?
> This is only a debate and I do want to hear peoples views.
> Kanchan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
> Sent: 26 June 2018 13:51
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing
> for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both
> candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be
> injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed candidate
> will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> > Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
> > what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
> > past I have always looked for graduates.
> >
> > On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
> >> Congrats!
> >> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
> >> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
> >> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
> >>
> >> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
> >> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
> >>
> >>
> >> सादर / With thanks & Regards
> >> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
> >> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
> >> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
> >> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
> >>
> >> 0712 2806846
> >>
> >> President
> >> VIBEWA
> >> Co-Moderator
> >> VIB-India
> >>
> >> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
> >> laughter.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> >> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
> >> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
> >> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
> >> concerning the disabled.'
> >> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
> >>
> >> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
> >> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
> >>
> >> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
> >> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
> >> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
> >>
> >> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
> because
> >> no one really implemented the guidelines.
> >>
> >> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
> >> these
> >> guidelines were unfair.
> >>
> >> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines
> gave
> >> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
> >>
> >> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
> >> complained
> >> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
> >>
> >> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
> >> but
> >> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
> >>
> >> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
> >> meeting on 20th June.
> >>
> >> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U
> PS
> >> C
> &

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Please continue current practises. When the guidelines change you will be 
informed. 
Status quo as of today. 
Kanchan 

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Lyngdoh
Sent: 26 June 2018 13:12
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean what 
qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the past I have 
always looked for graduates.

On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
> Congrats!
> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in 
> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and 
> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>
> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>
>
> सादर / With thanks & Regards
> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>
> 0712 2806846
>
> President
> VIBEWA
> Co-Moderator
> VIB-India
>
> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and 
> laughter.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.'
> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already 
> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>
> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and 
> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>
> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>
> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
> guidelines were unfair.
>
> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>
> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
> complained
> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>
> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>
> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
> meeting on 20th June.
>
> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
> and SSC.
>
> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
> had
> gone to meet the Minister.
>
> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our 
> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>
> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>
> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
> person
> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This 
> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>
> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>
> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining 
> body can provide not less than a matriculate.
>
> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>
> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the 
> original guidelines.
>
> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this 
> should not be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this 
> list who have used their own laptops and didn't have a problem after 
> explanations. This may be considered to be a loss and squarely attributable 
> to the subcommittee.
>
> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less
> in
> qualification than the candidate.
>
> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational 
> qualification for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too 
> bad but ground realities will tell.
>
> 20.   

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Very interesting analysis. Please explain in which exam this kind of situation 
will occur. 
Also is it not fair to allow a Post graduate  only a 12th Standard scribe? 
Is it not likely that the post graduate will know more than the scribe in this 
case. 
Is the scribe's qualification important in comparison to that of the candidate? 
This is only a debate and I do want to hear peoples views. 
Kanchan  

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Shweta Mishra
Sent: 26 June 2018 13:51
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

hi friends!
it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with different 
qualification.
for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing for 
the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both 
candidates?
if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be 
injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed candidate 
will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.

On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean 
> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the 
> past I have always looked for graduates.
>
> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> Congrats!
>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in 
>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and 
>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>
>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>
>>
>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>
>> 0712 2806846
>>
>> President
>> VIBEWA
>> Co-Moderator
>> VIB-India
>>
>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and 
>> laughter.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>> concerning the disabled.'
>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already 
>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>
>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and 
>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>
>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>
>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> these
>> guidelines were unfair.
>>
>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>
>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>> complained
>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>
>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>> but
>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>
>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>> meeting on 20th June.
>>
>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>> C
>> and SSC.
>>
>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>> had
>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>
>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our 
>> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>>
>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>
>> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
>> person
>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. 
>> This hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative 
>> down.
>>
>> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
>> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>>
>> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
>> candidate t

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Shweta Mishra]

hi friends!
it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
different qualification.
for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
criteria for both candidates?
if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it
be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.

On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
> past I have always looked for graduates.
>
> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> Congrats!
>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in qualification
>> than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and meet the scribe two
>> days in advance is a superb victory.
>>
>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>
>>
>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
>> नागपुर Nagpur
>>
>> 0712 2806846
>>
>> President
>> VIBEWA
>> Co-Moderator
>> VIB-India
>>
>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>> laughter.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning
>> the disabled.'
>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
>> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>
>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>
>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>
>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> these
>> guidelines were unfair.
>>
>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>
>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>> complained
>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>
>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>> but
>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>
>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>> meeting on 20th June.
>>
>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>> C
>> and SSC.
>>
>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>> had
>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>
>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
>> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>>
>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>
>> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
>> person
>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
>> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>>
>> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
>> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>>
>> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
>> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body
>> can
>> provide not less than a matriculate.
>>
>> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>>
>> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
>> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the
>> original
>> guidelines.
>>
>> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they
>> are
>> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should
>> not
>> be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Lyngdoh]

Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
past I have always looked for graduates.

On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
> Congrats!
> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in qualification
> than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and meet the scribe two
> days in advance is a superb victory.
>
> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>
>
> सादर / With thanks & Regards
> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
> नागपुर Nagpur
>
> 0712 2806846
>
> President
> VIBEWA
> Co-Moderator
> VIB-India
>
> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
> laughter.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Kanchan Pamnani
> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.'
> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>
> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>
> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>
> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
> guidelines were unfair.
>
> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>
> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
> complained
> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>
> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>
> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
> meeting on 20th June.
>
> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
> and SSC.
>
> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
> had
> gone to meet the Minister.
>
> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>
> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>
> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
> person
> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>
> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>
> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body can
> provide not less than a matriculate.
>
> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>
> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the original
> guidelines.
>
> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should not
> be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have used
> their own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may be
> considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.
>
> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less
> in
> qualification than the candidate.
>
> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification
> for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground
> realities will tell.
>
> 20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 cups of
> tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report to the
> courts.
>
> 21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is going to
> be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and each of
> you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the situation. You
> ar

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Asudani, Rajesh]

Congrats!
Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in qualification than 
oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and meet the scribe two days in 
advance is a superb victory.

At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.


सादर / With thanks & Regards
राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
नागपुर Nagpur

0712 2806846

President
VIBEWA
Co-Moderator
VIB-India

A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and laughter.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Kanchan Pamnani
Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.'
Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard what 
happened but let me explain a few issues

1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and definitely 
more than what we had demanded at different times.

2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
no one really implemented the guidelines.

3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
guidelines were unfair.

4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.

5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers complained
to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.

6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.

7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
meeting on 20th June.

8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
and SSC.

9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary had
gone to meet the Minister.

10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our comments 
when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.

11.   It was quite a hot debate.

12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same person
to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This hampers 
progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.

13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
of the Sub-committee were accepted.

14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body can 
provide not less than a matriculate.

15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.

16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the original 
guidelines.

17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should not be 
in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have used their 
own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may be 
considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.

18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less in
qualification than the candidate.

19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification for a 
scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground realities will 
tell.

20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 cups of
tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report to the
courts.

21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is going to
be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and each of you 
reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the situation. You are
responsible for what lies ahead. I know the argument about supervision.

22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2 people. We
did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many weren't.
However it has taken lots of persuasion, anger, raised voices and a lot of 
diplomacy.

23.   What will let us down is the continuous  use of professional scribes.


24.   Please help by giving me the reference to the Bombay High Court and
Eranakulam cases. We will have to intervene.

25.   Thanks to each of you who respond to my urgent requests and give your
input on these crucial issues.

26.   It has been 12 years battling this menace. I wish I dint have to face
a meetingwhere I am told that my people are chea

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[john clayton]

I would just like to say, Thank you.
Not just for doing all that you have done and are doing,but for keeping us
in the loop with your concise report.

As for cheating and coatched writers (scribes) I guess there will be
cheating no matter where you go or what you do,but really are issues made
out of when blind individuals end up with bad writers?
 I know its not the right thing to do and so on, but alas. People will be
people.

and
26. none of my people suffer because of bad scribes.
 I know,right? been there, experienced that.

On 25 June 2018 at 16:17, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:

> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>
> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>
> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>
> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
> guidelines were unfair.
>
> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>
> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
> complained
> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>
> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>
> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
> meeting on 20th June.
>
> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
> and SSC.
>
> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
> had
> gone to meet the Minister.
>
> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>
> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>
> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
> person
> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>
> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>
> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body
> can
> provide not less than a matriculate.
>
> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>
> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the
> original
> guidelines.
>
> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should
> not
> be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have used
> their own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may be
> considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.
>
> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less
> in
> qualification than the candidate.
>
> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification
> for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground
> realities will tell.
>
> 20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 cups of
> tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report to the
> courts.
>
> 21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is going to
> be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and each of
> you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the situation. You
> are
> responsible for what lies ahead. I know the argument about supervision.
>
> 22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2 people. We
> did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many weren't.
> However it has taken lots of persuasion, anger, raised voices and a lot of
> diplomacy.
>
> 23.   What will let us down is the continuous  use of professional scribes.
>
>
> 24.   Please help by giving me the reference to the Bombay High Court and
> Eranakulam cases. We will have to intervene.
>
> 25.   Thanks to each of you who respond to my urgent requests and give your
> input on these crucial issues.
>
> 26.   It has been 12 years battling this menace. I wish I dint have to face
> a meetingwhere I am told that my people are cheating. I further wish that
> none of my people suffer because of bad scribes.
>
> Kanchan
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by 

[AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
what happened but let me explain a few issues  

1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
definitely more than what we had demanded at different times. 

2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
no one really implemented the guidelines. 

3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
guidelines were unfair. 

4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers. 

5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers complained
to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.  

6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee. 

7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
meeting on 20th June. 

8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
and SSC. 

9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary had
gone to meet the Minister. 

10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting. 

11.   It was quite a hot debate. 

12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same person
to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.

13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
of the Sub-committee were accepted.  

14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body can
provide not less than a matriculate.  

15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance. 

16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the original
guidelines.  

17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should not
be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have used
their own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may be
considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.  

18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less in
qualification than the candidate. 

19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification
for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground
realities will tell. 

20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 cups of
tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report to the
courts. 

21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is going to
be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and each of
you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the situation. You are
responsible for what lies ahead. I know the argument about supervision.   

22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2 people. We
did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many weren't.
However it has taken lots of persuasion, anger, raised voices and a lot of
diplomacy. 

23.   What will let us down is the continuous  use of professional scribes.


24.   Please help by giving me the reference to the Bombay High Court and
Eranakulam cases. We will have to intervene.  

25.   Thanks to each of you who respond to my urgent requests and give your
input on these crucial issues.

26.   It has been 12 years battling this menace. I wish I dint have to face
a meetingwhere I am told that my people are cheating. I further wish that
none of my people suffer because of bad scribes.  

Kanchan 

 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

[Amar Jain]

The recommendations are severely problematic.

One level below has to have exceptions for let’s say a 11th class science or 
commerce kid, who cannot expect that 10th class kid will be able to write 
technical stuff.

The restriction on not being able to bring own scribe takes away the entire 
things from our hands for which we fought so hard.

Special locations for exams with assistive devices is flaud. Someone remind 
them that they fall fowl of RPWD if they don’t make their exams accessible. 
Counter could be that exams don’t fall in services, and we need to draw linkage 
to education / employment.

All the best! If this goes through, then... screwed.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 21-Jun-2018, at 9:51 AM, Krishna Bodawala  
> wrote:
> 
> on this issue i to am facing a problem regarding SBI PO Prilim Exam ?
> Can any1 tell me guide lines For a scribe in a SBI PO Prilim Exam ?
> 
>> On 6/19/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> The problem is manifold-
>> 1. These guidelines are not restricted to UPSE. We have fought so hard to
>> ensure that scribes will be brought by the candidates and not by the
>> Examining Authority in the first place. Why has the sub-committee made us
>> surrender? Tomorrows fight.
>> -Original Message-
>> 
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
>> Of Adhimoolam Vetrivel Murugan
>> Sent: 19 June 2018 15:22
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] scribe guidelines
>> 
>> As I understand, both the recommendation from the sub-committee and the
>> response from UPSC are stated here for our understanding. UPSC's claim to be
>> lacking resources in providing alternate writing mode for differently abled
>> is simply unbelievable and they can always approach the Central gov for
>> additional resources. So in my view, UPSC will not even think about
>> implementing these points without any directive from the court. It's the
>> time that we make them realize that simple zoom text question papers are
>> hardly enough in fulfilling special needs of diversed population of the
>> differently abled candidates. Vetri.
>> 
>>> On 19/06/2018, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> What I understand is that:
>>> 1. one step junior norm is going to be brought in again.
>>> 2. Primarily examination bodies will provide the writer, if they
>>> cannot, candidates will bring their own junior scribe.
>>> 
>>> First is okay, as no percentage etc. is mentioned.
>>> We should clearly say second point is not acceptable.
>>> Discretion should be with candidate about choice of scribe, whether
>>> own or needs to be provided.
>>> Besides, one step junior should be clarified to mean one year junior
>>> and not one degree or course junior.
>>> 
>>> Creation of specialized centers for computerized exam is unjustified.
>>> Installation of assistive technology and accessibility should be
>>> mandated wherever exam is online.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>> 
>>> 0712 2806846
>>> 
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>> 
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>>> laughter.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 19 June 2018 11:42
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] scribe guidelines
>>> 
>>> Has anyone seen the amount of trouble we are going to be in?
>>> 
>>> K
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> https://www.avg.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Search for old postings at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>> 
>>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>> 
>>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
>>> please visit the list home page at
>>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinf

Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

[Adhimoolam Vetrivel Murugan]

In my view there should be just some minimum eligibility to the
scribe. The scribe being 1 level below the candidate may not work in
certain situations. For example, the minimum qualification to write
UPSC is an undergrad degree. So  If someone appears for his/her exam
immediately after his undergrad, then the scribe will be expected to
be 1 level below undergrad degree which is literally the higher
secondary level. So considering this, UPSC or in fact the entire
government agency should fix a minimum qualification to be a scribe.

On 21/06/2018, Krishna Bodawala  wrote:
> on this issue i to am facing a problem regarding SBI PO Prilim Exam ?
> Can any1 tell me guide lines For a scribe in a SBI PO Prilim Exam ?
>
> On 6/19/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>>
>>
>> The problem is manifold-
>> 1. These guidelines are not restricted to UPSE. We have fought so hard to
>> ensure that scribes will be brought by the candidates and not by the
>> Examining Authority in the first place. Why has the sub-committee made us
>> surrender? Tomorrows fight.
>>  -Original Message-
>>
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Adhimoolam Vetrivel Murugan
>> Sent: 19 June 2018 15:22
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] scribe guidelines
>>
>> As I understand, both the recommendation from the sub-committee and the
>> response from UPSC are stated here for our understanding. UPSC's claim to
>> be
>> lacking resources in providing alternate writing mode for differently
>> abled
>> is simply unbelievable and they can always approach the Central gov for
>> additional resources. So in my view, UPSC will not even think about
>> implementing these points without any directive from the court. It's the
>> time that we make them realize that simple zoom text question papers are
>> hardly enough in fulfilling special needs of diversed population of the
>> differently abled candidates. Vetri.
>>
>> On 19/06/2018, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> What I understand is that:
>>> 1. one step junior norm is going to be brought in again.
>>> 2. Primarily examination bodies will provide the writer, if they
>>> cannot, candidates will bring their own junior scribe.
>>>
>>> First is okay, as no percentage etc. is mentioned.
>>> We should clearly say second point is not acceptable.
>>> Discretion should be with candidate about choice of scribe, whether
>>> own or needs to be provided.
>>> Besides, one step junior should be clarified to mean one year junior
>>> and not one degree or course junior.
>>>
>>> Creation of specialized centers for computerized exam is unjustified.
>>> Installation of assistive technology and accessibility should be
>>> mandated wherever exam is online.
>>>
>>>
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>
>>> 0712 2806846
>>>
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>>
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 19 June 2018 11:42
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Has anyone seen the amount of trouble we are going to be in?
>>>
>>> K
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> https://www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Search for old postings at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>>
>>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
>>> please visit the list home page at
>>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org
>>> .in
>>>
>>>
>>> Disclaimer:
>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking
>

Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

[Krishna Bodawala]

on this issue i to am facing a problem regarding SBI PO Prilim Exam ?
Can any1 tell me guide lines For a scribe in a SBI PO Prilim Exam ?

On 6/19/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>
>
> The problem is manifold-
> 1. These guidelines are not restricted to UPSE. We have fought so hard to
> ensure that scribes will be brought by the candidates and not by the
> Examining Authority in the first place. Why has the sub-committee made us
> surrender? Tomorrows fight.
>  -Original Message-
>
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Adhimoolam Vetrivel Murugan
> Sent: 19 June 2018 15:22
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] scribe guidelines
>
> As I understand, both the recommendation from the sub-committee and the
> response from UPSC are stated here for our understanding. UPSC's claim to be
> lacking resources in providing alternate writing mode for differently abled
> is simply unbelievable and they can always approach the Central gov for
> additional resources. So in my view, UPSC will not even think about
> implementing these points without any directive from the court. It's the
> time that we make them realize that simple zoom text question papers are
> hardly enough in fulfilling special needs of diversed population of the
> differently abled candidates. Vetri.
>
> On 19/06/2018, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> What I understand is that:
>> 1. one step junior norm is going to be brought in again.
>> 2. Primarily examination bodies will provide the writer, if they
>> cannot, candidates will bring their own junior scribe.
>>
>> First is okay, as no percentage etc. is mentioned.
>> We should clearly say second point is not acceptable.
>> Discretion should be with candidate about choice of scribe, whether
>> own or needs to be provided.
>> Besides, one step junior should be clarified to mean one year junior
>> and not one degree or course junior.
>>
>> Creation of specialized centers for computerized exam is unjustified.
>> Installation of assistive technology and accessibility should be
>> mandated wherever exam is online.
>>
>>
>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>
>> 0712 2806846
>>
>> President
>> VIBEWA
>> Co-Moderator
>> VIB-India
>>
>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>> laughter.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> Sent: 19 June 2018 11:42
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.'
>> Subject: [AI] scribe guidelines
>>
>> Has anyone seen the amount of trouble we are going to be in?
>>
>> K
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>
>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
>> please visit the list home page at
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org
>> .in
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking
>> of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its
>> veracity;
>>
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the
>> mails sent through this mailing list..
>>
>> 
>>
>> Caution: The Reserve Bank of India never sends mails, SMSs or makes
>> calls asking for personal information such as your bank account
>> details, passwords, etc. It never keeps or offers funds to anyone.
>> Please do not respond in any manner to such offers, however official
>> or attractive they may look.
>>
>>
>> Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
>> and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
>> they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any
>> dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the
>> information contained in this e-mail message and/or at

Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

The problem is manifold-
1. These guidelines are not restricted to UPSE. We have fought so hard to 
ensure that scribes will be brought by the candidates and not by the Examining 
Authority in the first place. Why has the sub-committee made us surrender? 
Tomorrows fight.
 -Original Message-

From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Adhimoolam Vetrivel Murugan
Sent: 19 June 2018 15:22
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

As I understand, both the recommendation from the sub-committee and the 
response from UPSC are stated here for our understanding. UPSC's claim to be 
lacking resources in providing alternate writing mode for differently abled is 
simply unbelievable and they can always approach the Central gov for additional 
resources. So in my view, UPSC will not even think about implementing these 
points without any directive from the court. It's the time that we make them 
realize that simple zoom text question papers are hardly enough in fulfilling 
special needs of diversed population of the differently abled candidates. Vetri.

On 19/06/2018, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
> What I understand is that:
> 1. one step junior norm is going to be brought in again.
> 2. Primarily examination bodies will provide the writer, if they 
> cannot, candidates will bring their own junior scribe.
>
> First is okay, as no percentage etc. is mentioned.
> We should clearly say second point is not acceptable.
> Discretion should be with candidate about choice of scribe, whether 
> own or needs to be provided.
> Besides, one step junior should be clarified to mean one year junior 
> and not one degree or course junior.
>
> Creation of specialized centers for computerized exam is unjustified.
> Installation of assistive technology and accessibility should be 
> mandated wherever exam is online.
>
>
> सादर / With thanks & Regards
> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>
> 0712 2806846
>
> President
> VIBEWA
> Co-Moderator
> VIB-India
>
> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and 
> laughter.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
> Sent: 19 June 2018 11:42
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.'
> Subject: [AI] scribe guidelines
>
> Has anyone seen the amount of trouble we are going to be in?
>
> K
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, 
> please visit the list home page at 
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org
> .in
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking 
> of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its 
> veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the 
> mails sent through this mailing list..
>
> 
>
> Caution: The Reserve Bank of India never sends mails, SMSs or makes 
> calls asking for personal information such as your bank account 
> details, passwords, etc. It never keeps or offers funds to anyone. 
> Please do not respond in any manner to such offers, however official 
> or attractive they may look.
>
>
> Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential 
> and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom 
> they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any 
> dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the 
> information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it 
> are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, 
> please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and 
> permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient 
> should check this email and any attachments for the presence of 
> viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused 
> by any virus transmitted by this email.
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@access

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

The framed guidelines are getting sabotaged. K 

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of sazid shaik
Sent: 19 June 2018 17:02
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

dear experts,
Is this guidelines had framed?  Is this only for UPSC/

thanks and regards,
sazid

On 6/19/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:
> Hi
> My comments are under:
>
> 3. IV. It is welcome that the commission agreed to meet the scribe a 
> day in advance. However, if the candidate is not happy with any of the 
> scribes, what is the mechanism to solve the problem. There is no time 
> at all for the commission to find another set of scribes.
> In terms of solution, either the days of meeting the scribe should be 
> increased or some flexibility should be given so that the candidate 
> can propose his own scribe giving the examination conductor to satisfy 
> the suitability of the scribe. Moreover, mere meeting will be of 
> little use until they attempt some dummy questions online or offline 
> as the case may be. It may be reasonable restriction if the candidate 
> and scribe are restricted to share their contact details.
>
> VII. It is unclear if alternate mode of giving exams is permitted. The 
> commission should be open to consider this request as a proactive measure.
> VIII. Unclear if the commission permits blind person to give the exams 
> on the computer. There seems dependency on the government to provide 
> the facility. Again we should press for it.
>
> Harish
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 3:01 PM
> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
>
> All
> Kanchan's mail did not get on the list. Hence, I am copying it below.
> Regards
> Harish Kotian
>
> Quoting
>
>
> From: Kanchan Pamnani [mailto:kanchanpamn...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 18 June 2018 10:49
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.'
> Subject: Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi Friends,
> You are all aware that U P S E had objected to some of the clauses of 
> the
> 2013 Guidelines. So a committee was set up of which I am a member. In the
> last meeting it was decided to set up a subcommittee   which has now sent
> its recommendations. The U P S E has commented on the recommendations.
> The meeting is on 20th June.
> Kindly go through the statement below and let me have your feedback by 
> tomorrow evening.
> Kanchan
> Statement indicating recommendations of the Sub-Committee , UPSC's 
> comments, and recommendations of the Department thereon
>
> Para No.   Guidelines dated 26.02.2013   Revision
> recommended by the Sub-Committee UPSC's comments w.r.t. the 
> Sub-Committee's recommendations  Department's comments
>
> III
> The facility of Scribe/Reader/Lab Assistant should be allowed to any 
> person who has disability of 40% or more if so desired by the person.
> The facility of Scribe/Reader/Lab Assistant should be allowed to 
> persons with benchmark disabilities (i.e. with disability of 40% or 
> more) and has physical limitation to write including that of speed. In 
> case of persons with benchmark disabilities in the category of 
> blindness, locomotor disability (both arm affected-BA) and cerebral 
> palsy, the facility of scribe/reader/lab assistant shall be given, if so
desired by the person.
> In case of other category of persons with benchmark disabilities, the 
> provision of scribe/reader/lab assistant can be allowed on production 
> of a certificate to the effect that the person concerned has physical 
> limitation to write, and scribe is essential to write examination on 
> his behalf, from the specialist of a Government health care 
> institution of the relevant stream of disability as per proforma at
Annexure I.
> The Commission agrees with the proposal of allowing the facility of 
> scribe to the candidates falling under the categories of blindness, 
> locomotor disability (both arm affected - BA) and cerebral palsy, if 
> so desired by such candidates.
>
> As regards allowing the facility of scribe/reader/ lab assistant in 
> case of other category of persons with disabilities on production of 
> the certificate, the Commission agrees with the recommendation 
> provided such certificate on physical limitation to write is issued to 
> such candidates by the CMO of Government Hospital of respective District
only.
>
> It is further stated that since the Commission does not ask for any 
> certificate including PwBD at initial applicati

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[George Abraham]

There is only one point I would like to emphasise. The blind candidate must
be given the definite opportunity to write exams using computers. This
should not be dependent on Govt. facilities being available.



-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Kotian, H P
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 3:01 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines


All
Kanchan's mail did not get on the list. Hence, I am copying it below.
Regards
Harish Kotian

Quoting


From: Kanchan Pamnani [mailto:kanchanpamn...@gmail.com]
Sent: 18 June 2018 10:49
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.'
Subject: Scribe guidelines

Hi Friends,
You are all aware that U P S E had objected to some of the clauses of the
2013 Guidelines. So a committee was set up of which I am a member. In the
last meeting it was decided to set up a subcommittee   which has now sent
its recommendations. The U P S E has commented on the recommendations.
The meeting is on 20th June.
Kindly go through the statement below and let me have your feedback by
tomorrow evening.
Kanchan
Statement indicating recommendations of the Sub-Committee , UPSC's comments,
and recommendations of the Department thereon

Para No.   Guidelines dated 26.02.2013   Revision
recommended by the Sub-Committee UPSC's comments w.r.t. the Sub-Committee's
recommendations  Department's comments

III
The facility of Scribe/Reader/Lab Assistant should be allowed to any person
who has disability of 40% or more if so desired by the person.
The facility of Scribe/Reader/Lab Assistant should be allowed to persons
with benchmark disabilities (i.e. with disability of 40% or more) and has
physical limitation to write including that of speed. In case of persons
with benchmark disabilities in the category of blindness, locomotor
disability (both arm affected-BA) and cerebral palsy, the facility of
scribe/reader/lab assistant shall be given, if so desired by the person.
In case of other category of persons with benchmark disabilities, the
provision of scribe/reader/lab assistant can be allowed on production of a
certificate to the effect that the person concerned has physical limitation
to write, and scribe is essential to write examination on his behalf, from
the specialist of a Government health care institution of the relevant
stream of disability as per proforma at Annexure I.
The Commission agrees with the proposal of allowing the facility of scribe
to the candidates falling under the categories of blindness, locomotor
disability (both arm affected - BA) and cerebral palsy, if so desired by
such candidates.

As regards allowing the facility of scribe/reader/ lab assistant in case of
other category of persons with disabilities on production of the
certificate, the Commission agrees with the recommendation provided such
certificate on physical limitation to write is issued to such candidates by
the CMO of Government Hospital of respective District only.

It is further stated that since the Commission does not ask for any
certificate including PwBD at initial application stage, the Commission
would allow such candidates of other benchmark disabilities the facility of
Scribe/Reader/Lab Assistant for appearing at the First Stage
(Preliminary/Stage-I) in a Multi-Stage Examination on the basis of
undertaking from them. However, such certificates will be checked at the
time of Second Stage (Main/Stage-II) of the Examination.
UPSC mostly agrees on the recommendation of the Sub-Committee. However, they
have suggested that the certificate,  required to be produced by the person
with  other category of disability than blindness, locomotor disability &
cerebral palsy for availing the facility of scribe, should be issued by CMO
instead of  specialist of a Government health care institution.

 Department may agree to it.


IVThe candidate should have the discretion of opting for his own
scribe/reader/lab assistant or request the Examination Body for the same.
The examining body may also identify the scribe/reader/lab assistant to make
panels at the District/Division/State level as per the requirements of the
examination. In such instances the candidates should be allowed to meet the
scribe a day before the examination so that the candidates get a chance to
check and verify whether the scribe is suitable or not.  The
examining body may identify the scribe/reader/lab assistant (language/stream
wise) to develop a pool at the District/Division/State level as per the
requirements of the examination. In such instances the candidates should be
allowed to meet the scribe a day before the examination so that the
candidates get a chance to check and verify whether the scribe is suitable
or not.
In case the examining body is not in a position to make available the
scribe/reader/lab assistant from its side, the candidate would then be
allowed for op

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[sazid shaik]

dear experts,
Is this guidelines had framed?  Is this only for UPSC/

thanks and regards,
sazid

On 6/19/18, Kotian, H P  wrote:
> Hi
> My comments are under:
>
> 3. IV. It is welcome that the commission agreed to meet the scribe a day in
> advance. However, if the candidate is not happy with any of the scribes,
> what is the mechanism to solve the problem. There is no time at all for the
> commission to find another set of scribes.
> In terms of solution, either the days of meeting the scribe should be
> increased or some flexibility should be given so that the candidate can
> propose his own scribe giving the examination conductor to satisfy the
> suitability of the scribe. Moreover, mere meeting will be of little use
> until they attempt some dummy questions online or offline as the case may
> be. It may be reasonable restriction if the candidate and scribe are
> restricted to share their contact details.
>
> VII. It is unclear if alternate mode of giving exams is permitted. The
> commission should be open to consider this request as a proactive measure.
> VIII. Unclear if the commission permits blind person to give the exams on
> the computer. There seems dependency on the government to provide the
> facility. Again we should press for it.
>
> Harish
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Kotian, H P
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 3:01 PM
> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
>
> All
> Kanchan's mail did not get on the list. Hence, I am copying it below.
> Regards
> Harish Kotian
>
> Quoting
>
>
> From: Kanchan Pamnani [mailto:kanchanpamn...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 18 June 2018 10:49
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.'
> Subject: Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi Friends,
> You are all aware that U P S E had objected to some of the clauses of the
> 2013 Guidelines. So a committee was set up of which I am a member. In the
> last meeting it was decided to set up a subcommittee   which has now sent
> its recommendations. The U P S E has commented on the recommendations.
> The meeting is on 20th June.
> Kindly go through the statement below and let me have your feedback by
> tomorrow evening.
> Kanchan
> Statement indicating recommendations of the Sub-Committee , UPSC's comments,
> and recommendations of the Department thereon
>
> Para No.   Guidelines dated 26.02.2013   Revision
> recommended by the Sub-Committee UPSC's comments w.r.t. the Sub-Committee's
> recommendations  Department's comments
>
> III
> The facility of Scribe/Reader/Lab Assistant should be allowed to any person
> who has disability of 40% or more if so desired by the person.
> The facility of Scribe/Reader/Lab Assistant should be allowed to persons
> with benchmark disabilities (i.e. with disability of 40% or more) and has
> physical limitation to write including that of speed. In case of persons
> with benchmark disabilities in the category of blindness, locomotor
> disability (both arm affected-BA) and cerebral palsy, the facility of
> scribe/reader/lab assistant shall be given, if so desired by the person.
> In case of other category of persons with benchmark disabilities, the
> provision of scribe/reader/lab assistant can be allowed on production of a
> certificate to the effect that the person concerned has physical limitation
> to write, and scribe is essential to write examination on his behalf, from
> the specialist of a Government health care institution of the relevant
> stream of disability as per proforma at Annexure I.
> The Commission agrees with the proposal of allowing the facility of scribe
> to the candidates falling under the categories of blindness, locomotor
> disability (both arm affected - BA) and cerebral palsy, if so desired by
> such candidates.
>
> As regards allowing the facility of scribe/reader/ lab assistant in case of
> other category of persons with disabilities on production of the
> certificate, the Commission agrees with the recommendation provided such
> certificate on physical limitation to write is issued to such candidates by
> the CMO of Government Hospital of respective District only.
>
> It is further stated that since the Commission does not ask for any
> certificate including PwBD at initial application stage, the Commission
> would allow such candidates of other benchmark disabilities the facility of
> Scribe/Reader/Lab Assistant for appearing at the First Stage
> (Preliminary/Stage-I) in a Multi-Stage Examination on the basis of
> undertaking from them. However, such certificates will be checked at the
> time of Second Stage (Main/Stage-I

Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Does anyone want the statement as an attachment. Please email me and I will 
send it. 
I still haven’t got my ticket and ..
Its crazy. 
K 

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Shweta Mishra
Sent: 19 June 2018 15:30
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

hi experts!
please explain, should the scribe be one grade junior to the candidate? or 
scribe should be junior to the minimum eligibility criteria?

On 6/19/18, Adhimoolam Vetrivel Murugan  wrote:
> As I understand, both the recommendation from the sub-committee and 
> the response from UPSC are stated here for our understanding. UPSC's 
> claim to be lacking resources in providing alternate writing mode for 
> differently abled is simply unbelievable and they can always approach 
> the Central gov for additional resources. So in my view, UPSC will not 
> even think about implementing these points without any directive from 
> the court. It's the time that we make them realize that simple zoom 
> text question papers are hardly enough in fulfilling special needs of 
> diversed population of the differently abled candidates. Vetri.
>
> On 19/06/2018, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> What I understand is that:
>> 1. one step junior norm is going to be brought in again.
>> 2. Primarily examination bodies will provide the writer, if they 
>> cannot, candidates will bring their own junior scribe.
>>
>> First is okay, as no percentage etc. is mentioned.
>> We should clearly say second point is not acceptable.
>> Discretion should be with candidate about choice of scribe, whether 
>> own or needs to be provided.
>> Besides, one step junior should be clarified to mean one year junior 
>> and not one degree or course junior.
>>
>> Creation of specialized centers for computerized exam is unjustified.
>> Installation of assistive technology and accessibility should be 
>> mandated wherever exam is online.
>>
>>
>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>
>> 0712 2806846
>>
>> President
>> VIBEWA
>> Co-Moderator
>> VIB-India
>>
>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and 
>> laughter.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> Sent: 19 June 2018 11:42
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>> concerning the disabled.'
>> Subject: [AI] scribe guidelines
>>
>> Has anyone seen the amount of trouble we are going to be in?
>>
>> K
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>
>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, 
>> please visit the list home page at 
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.or
>> g.in
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking 
>> of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its 
>> veracity;
>>
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the 
>> mails sent through this mailing list..
>>
>> 
>>
>> Caution: The Reserve Bank of India never sends mails, SMSs or makes 
>> calls asking for personal information such as your bank account 
>> details, passwords, etc. It never keeps or offers funds to anyone. 
>> Please do not respond in any manner to such offers, however official 
>> or attractive they may look.
>>
>>
>> Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential 
>> and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom 
>> they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any 
>> dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the 
>> information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it 
>> are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, 
>> please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immedi

Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

[Shweta Mishra]

hi experts!
please explain, should the scribe be one grade junior to the
candidate? or scribe should be junior to the minimum eligibility
criteria?

On 6/19/18, Adhimoolam Vetrivel Murugan  wrote:
> As I understand, both the recommendation from the sub-committee and
> the response from UPSC are stated here for our understanding. UPSC's
> claim to be lacking resources in providing alternate writing mode for
> differently abled is simply unbelievable and they can always approach
> the Central gov for additional resources. So in my view, UPSC will not
> even think about implementing these points without any directive from
> the court. It's the time that we make them realize that simple zoom
> text question papers are hardly enough in fulfilling special needs of
> diversed population of the differently abled candidates. Vetri.
>
> On 19/06/2018, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> What I understand is that:
>> 1. one step junior norm is going to be brought in again.
>> 2. Primarily examination bodies will provide the writer, if they cannot,
>> candidates will bring their own junior scribe.
>>
>> First is okay, as no percentage etc. is mentioned.
>> We should clearly say second point is not acceptable.
>> Discretion should be with candidate about choice of scribe, whether own or
>> needs to be provided.
>> Besides, one step junior should be clarified to mean one year junior and
>> not
>> one degree or course junior.
>>
>> Creation of specialized centers for computerized exam is unjustified.
>> Installation of assistive technology and accessibility should be mandated
>> wherever exam is online.
>>
>>
>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
>> नागपुर Nagpur
>>
>> 0712 2806846
>>
>> President
>> VIBEWA
>> Co-Moderator
>> VIB-India
>>
>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>> laughter.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> Sent: 19 June 2018 11:42
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning
>> the disabled.'
>> Subject: [AI] scribe guidelines
>>
>> Has anyone seen the amount of trouble we are going to be in?
>>
>> K
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>
>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
>> please
>> visit the list home page at
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
>> the
>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>>
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
>> sent through this mailing list..
>>
>> 
>>
>> Caution: The Reserve Bank of India never sends mails, SMSs or makes calls
>> asking for personal information such as your bank account details,
>> passwords, etc. It never keeps or offers funds to anyone. Please do not
>> respond in any manner to such offers, however official or attractive they
>> may look.
>>
>>
>> Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use,
>> review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in
>> this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If
>> you
>> have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or
>> telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any
>> attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for
>> the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability
>> for
>> any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.
>>
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@acces

Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

[Adhimoolam Vetrivel Murugan]

As I understand, both the recommendation from the sub-committee and
the response from UPSC are stated here for our understanding. UPSC's
claim to be lacking resources in providing alternate writing mode for
differently abled is simply unbelievable and they can always approach
the Central gov for additional resources. So in my view, UPSC will not
even think about implementing these points without any directive from
the court. It's the time that we make them realize that simple zoom
text question papers are hardly enough in fulfilling special needs of
diversed population of the differently abled candidates. Vetri.

On 19/06/2018, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
> What I understand is that:
> 1. one step junior norm is going to be brought in again.
> 2. Primarily examination bodies will provide the writer, if they cannot,
> candidates will bring their own junior scribe.
>
> First is okay, as no percentage etc. is mentioned.
> We should clearly say second point is not acceptable.
> Discretion should be with candidate about choice of scribe, whether own or
> needs to be provided.
> Besides, one step junior should be clarified to mean one year junior and not
> one degree or course junior.
>
> Creation of specialized centers for computerized exam is unjustified.
> Installation of assistive technology and accessibility should be mandated
> wherever exam is online.
>
>
> सादर / With thanks & Regards
> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
> नागपुर Nagpur
>
> 0712 2806846
>
> President
> VIBEWA
> Co-Moderator
> VIB-India
>
> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
> laughter.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Kanchan Pamnani
> Sent: 19 June 2018 11:42
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.'
> Subject: [AI] scribe guidelines
>
> Has anyone seen the amount of trouble we are going to be in?
>
> K
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please
> visit the list home page at
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
> 
>
> Caution: The Reserve Bank of India never sends mails, SMSs or makes calls
> asking for personal information such as your bank account details,
> passwords, etc. It never keeps or offers funds to anyone. Please do not
> respond in any manner to such offers, however official or attractive they
> may look.
>
>
> Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use,
> review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in
> this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you
> have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or
> telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any
> attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for
> the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for
> any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please
> visit the list home page at
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>


-- 


Thanks and Regards,

Vetri.


Vetri

Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

[Asudani, Rajesh]

What I understand is that:
1. one step junior norm is going to be brought in again.
2. Primarily examination bodies will provide the writer, if they cannot, 
candidates will bring their own junior scribe.

First is okay, as no percentage etc. is mentioned.
We should clearly say second point is not acceptable.
Discretion should be with candidate about choice of scribe, whether own or 
needs to be provided.
Besides, one step junior should be clarified to mean one year junior and not 
one degree or course junior.

Creation of specialized centers for computerized exam is unjustified.
Installation of assistive technology and accessibility should be mandated 
wherever exam is online.


सादर / With thanks & Regards
राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
नागपुर Nagpur

0712 2806846

President
VIBEWA
Co-Moderator
VIB-India

A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and laughter.


-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Kanchan Pamnani
Sent: 19 June 2018 11:42
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.'
Subject: [AI] scribe guidelines

Has anyone seen the amount of trouble we are going to be in?

K



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at 
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..



Caution: The Reserve Bank of India never sends mails, SMSs or makes calls 
asking for personal information such as your bank account details, passwords, 
etc. It never keeps or offers funds to anyone. Please do not respond in any 
manner to such offers, however official or attractive they may look.


Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, 
review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this 
e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone 
and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The 
recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of 
viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused 
by any virus transmitted by this email.



Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] scribe guidelines

[pranaya rani]

Its not clear whether blind will be allowed their own scribes! In one para
they say blind can take their own scribes while in some other para, they say
commission will provide 100 percent scribes.   Its ambigious whether we can
take our own relatives as scribes (as its not easy to get scribes), this is
because, in one para  it says that scribes shouldn't be close to the
candidates or something like that. Kanchan will be in a better position to
clarify the same

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Kanchan Pamnani
Sent: 19 June, 2018 11:42 AM
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.'
Subject: [AI] scribe guidelines

Has anyone seen the amount of trouble we are going to be in?

K 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
sent through this mailing list..





Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

[AI] scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Has anyone seen the amount of trouble we are going to be in?

K 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Mohib Anwar Rafay]

Probably now onwards NET exam wont be conducted by CBSE. Hopefully
exam taking authorities understand the issue and they make whole exam
process accessible to visually impaired.

On 12/19/17, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> Thank you all for responding so urgently and with so much information on
> Thursday evening.
>
> I had thought that the Friday meeting would probably be the last but..
>
> Sub committees would be set up to look at issues concerning each disability
> and then all the issues would be looked at comprehensively.
>
> Overall the mood was against barring private scribes or putting
> restrictions.Phew what a relief.
>
> Staff Selection Board mentioned that they had conducted exams on computer
> and the scribe would only have to read the question and click the answer
> suggested by the vi examinee. When I asked them why they hadn't made the
> questions accessible,  their reply was that they had so many examinees. I
> think we will have to follow this up while we wait for the next meeting.
>
> D O P T   said that on the last occasion   4 recruitees out of 11 in the VI
> category had to be disqualified because they were found not to be disabled.
> The UPSE conducts the preliminary exam and then the main and then the
> interview. After the interview candidates are examined by a medical board
> and in this medical boardfound that the candidates had doubtful
> certificates. These cases were then referred to another medical board which
> came to the conclusion that these be disqualified candidates had wrong
> certificates. D O P T said that this whole process costs time and money.
>
> Friends this is embarrassing- we do obtain fake medical certificates. We
> will all have to introspect and see that we don't get these certificates
> and
> we don't allow our friends to get them too. Of course there is a penal
> action in the new law but as we all know that process will take time and
> energy and wont be a deterrent to others for a while.
>
> UGC stated that they don't conduct NET since  2014 and CBSE does it for
> them. They have agreed to ask CBSE not to ask for scribes names so much in
> advance. It seems that CBSE asked for details of scribes 8 months in
> advance. This was positive.
>
> Other issues also got discussed but the aforementioned   were the most
> important issues.
>
> Kartik I need to see the judgement in your matter. From what I have
> understood from Neha this is a horrible judgement on the alternative
> question issue. I wish I had known we could have challenged it.
>
>
>
> Friends once again thank you for your support and your knowledge.
>
> Kanchan
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
> The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>
> You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please
> visit the list home page at
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>


-- 
Mohib Anwar Rafay

Phone: +919 555 555 765

The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in

You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in




Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

[AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Thank you all for responding so urgently and with so much information on
Thursday evening.

I had thought that the Friday meeting would probably be the last but.. 

Sub committees would be set up to look at issues concerning each disability
and then all the issues would be looked at comprehensively. 

Overall the mood was against barring private scribes or putting
restrictions.Phew what a relief.  

Staff Selection Board mentioned that they had conducted exams on computer
and the scribe would only have to read the question and click the answer
suggested by the vi examinee. When I asked them why they hadn't made the
questions accessible,  their reply was that they had so many examinees. I
think we will have to follow this up while we wait for the next meeting.

D O P T   said that on the last occasion   4 recruitees out of 11 in the VI
category had to be disqualified because they were found not to be disabled.
The UPSE conducts the preliminary exam and then the main and then the
interview. After the interview candidates are examined by a medical board
and in this medical boardfound that the candidates had doubtful
certificates. These cases were then referred to another medical board which
came to the conclusion that these be disqualified candidates had wrong
certificates. D O P T said that this whole process costs time and money. 

Friends this is embarrassing- we do obtain fake medical certificates. We
will all have to introspect and see that we don't get these certificates and
we don't allow our friends to get them too. Of course there is a penal
action in the new law but as we all know that process will take time and
energy and wont be a deterrent to others for a while. 

UGC stated that they don't conduct NET since  2014 and CBSE does it for
them. They have agreed to ask CBSE not to ask for scribes names so much in
advance. It seems that CBSE asked for details of scribes 8 months in
advance. This was positive. 

Other issues also got discussed but the aforementioned   were the most
important issues. 

Kartik I need to see the judgement in your matter. From what I have
understood from Neha this is a horrible judgement on the alternative
question issue. I wish I had known we could have challenged it. 

 

Friends once again thank you for your support and your knowledge. 

Kanchan  



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in

You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in




Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[pranav.lal]

Everyone,

The problem with recording is that most CCTVV cameras do not capture audio
unless you have specifically set them up for the same. Moreover, they are
usually not in the rooms as far as I know so they will not help detect
cheating.

Pranav


The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in

You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in




Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[SC Vashishth]

This is so encouraging Avi that cut off for disabled is only 2 marks below
the general cutt off. The challenge here is that all disabled candidates
selected on marks above the general merit must go the general merit list
and not counted against the reserved quota! Often the game by employers
starts here which needs to be nipped in the bud!

Subhash Chandra Vashishth
Advocate

On 14-Dec-2017 8:53 PM, "Avee Gupta"  wrote:

> I agree with the opinion of not imposing any restrictions on scribe
> guidelines but as far as my knowledge the cut of's  of various
> examinations like IBPS and SBI officer as well as clerical have multi
> folded in these 4 years .
> Since 2014 the cut off has almost doubled instead of the rise in level
> of several examinations due to mal practices of several candidates in
> exams  with the help of scribes.
> The latest recruitment for SBI- probationary officer saw a path
> breaking cut off for visually impaired having difference of only about
> 2 marks with general category .
> I think now it is a very alarming situation and we should strive
> forward for use of technology in exams for visually impaired so that
> we can give freely our exams without help of any individual and I can
> assure that the cut off's will definitely go down and only deserving
> candidates with sound knowledge of screen reading softwares like jaws
> and nvda be selected for such posts.
> my opinion rests with use of screen reading softwares in exam centres
> rather than use of scribes which are very much difficult to be
> invigilated at the exam centres and now with the advent of new
> technology each and every visually impaired must be aquinted with the
> knowledge of screen reading softwares for there day to day work in
> their offices and the exam if conducted with the help of screen
> reading softwares will definitely be helpful to recruit only deserving
> candidates with satisfactory knowledge of screen reading softwares.
> thanks and regards
> Avee Gupta
> UIICL
>
> The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>
> You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
> please visit the list home page at
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in

You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in




Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Rohit Trivedi]

New testing mechanisms should be evolved for the blind.

Many a times it is not possible for the candidates to respond to a MCQ  
after listening to it even two to three times.

Many a times when the candidate talks to his scribe or tries to work out 
the answer, the, invigilator presumes that the scribe is helping him.

Serious research needs to be undertaken as to what kind of questions 
could be asked from the blind candidates to judge their real worth/talent.

Replacing MCQs with Short answer type questions to test different 
abilities could be one way out. Testing agencies should be taken on 
board for this purpose.

Rohit


On 15-12-2017 10:54, Mujeeb Rahman wrote:
> Second Yajesh and Gupta.
>
> On 12/14/17, Avee Gupta  wrote:
>> I agree with the opinion of not imposing any restrictions on scribe
>> guidelines but as far as my knowledge the cut of's  of various
>> examinations like IBPS and SBI officer as well as clerical have multi
>> folded in these 4 years .
>> Since 2014 the cut off has almost doubled instead of the rise in level
>> of several examinations due to mal practices of several candidates in
>> exams  with the help of scribes.
>> The latest recruitment for SBI- probationary officer saw a path
>> breaking cut off for visually impaired having difference of only about
>> 2 marks with general category .
>> I think now it is a very alarming situation and we should strive
>> forward for use of technology in exams for visually impaired so that
>> we can give freely our exams without help of any individual and I can
>> assure that the cut off's will definitely go down and only deserving
>> candidates with sound knowledge of screen reading softwares like jaws
>> and nvda be selected for such posts.
>> my opinion rests with use of screen reading softwares in exam centres
>> rather than use of scribes which are very much difficult to be
>> invigilated at the exam centres and now with the advent of new
>> technology each and every visually impaired must be aquinted with the
>> knowledge of screen reading softwares for there day to day work in
>> their offices and the exam if conducted with the help of screen
>> reading softwares will definitely be helpful to recruit only deserving
>> candidates with satisfactory knowledge of screen reading softwares.
>> thanks and regards
>> Avee Gupta
>> UIICL
>>
>> The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>>
>> You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>
>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please
>> visit the list home page at
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>>
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
>> sent through this mailing list..
>>
>

The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in

You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in




Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[George Abraham]

Penalising the blind student by putting restrictions on the scribe is hugely
unfair. If people are abusing the facility, it is up to the system to catch
them and bring them to book. As it is, the blind person is disadvantaged and
if he has to run around toorganise the documentation and meet the different
requirements of exam boards, God help him. The simple way forward is to
strengthen the invigilation and be severe on any infringements. If the onus
of providing scribes is left to the exam boards, then the blind talent is
seriously compromised. I have met people who have written the civil services
exams where the scribe offered was a watchman. Do not think that is fair.
  

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of avinash shahi
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 10:51 AM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

Dear Kanchan mam, Still you've 11 minutes for the meeting to start.
Please, ask the ministry to dig in the archive of the complaints received by
the CCPD Office over the years regarding bad scribes provided by
SSC/CBSE/UGC/UPSC. The situation at states' level is even worse.  There are
a number of newspaper reports'  detailing this harsh reality. I'm sure there
are plenty of cases to rely upon to send the point home that restriction or
necessity of a lower grade scribe is regressive idea.


On 12/15/17, Renuka Warriar Edakkunni <eren...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I support Avinash's and Dinesh's views.  Strict supervision and if 
> necessary, c c t v recording will reduce the malpractice to a great 
> extense.
>
> Renuka.
>
> On 12/15/17, Srinivasu Chakravarthula <li...@srinivasu.org> wrote:
>> Kanchan,
>> I think what Dinesh is referring is CCTV recording. Now-a-days use of 
>> CCTV is quite common everywhere and even may already exist in exam 
>> centres. I don't think he is talking about video shoot or something 
>> like that.
>>
>> Best,
>> Vasu
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
>> Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com
>>
>> Let's create an inclusive web!
>>
>> Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kanchan Pamnani 
>> <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dinesh I am not questioning you for the sake of arguing but for 
>>> strengthening my stand tomorrow.Is video recording feasible for 
>>> exams in schools colleges and competitive exams in various classrooms.
>>>   -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>>> Behalf Of Dinesh Kaushal
>>> Sent: 14 December 2017 18:15
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>>>
>>> I guess we may not have to worry about all these conditions if video 
>>> recording of the session could be made mandatory. Video recording 
>>> should be submitted so that anytime any authority could verify if 
>>> any cheating happened.
>>> for any
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:59 PM
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>> concerning the disabled.' <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>>>
>>>
>>> See the opinion of some stake holders. I had started answering these 
>>> but got foxed with NIVH -our apex body.
>>> Now what to do friends when we have to face ourselves.
>>>
>>> 1.  SSC
>>> Candidate allowed to bring their own scribe can misuse this facility 
>>> which could adversely impact the transparency and integrity of the 
>>> examination.
>>> It
>>> also has the potential to disrupt the level playing field for other 
>>> candidates in this category who accept the scribe provided by the 
>>> Commission. i. Moreover the propensity for allegations/complaints of 
>>> unfair practises could also be high.
>>> Kp Supervision which is the responsibility of the Examining 
>>> Authority
>>>
>>> 2.  CBSE
>>> Scribe should not have obtained qualification in same subject in 
>>> which the candidate is appearing f

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Mujeeb Rahman]

Second Yajesh and Gupta.

On 12/14/17, Avee Gupta  wrote:
> I agree with the opinion of not imposing any restrictions on scribe
> guidelines but as far as my knowledge the cut of's  of various
> examinations like IBPS and SBI officer as well as clerical have multi
> folded in these 4 years .
> Since 2014 the cut off has almost doubled instead of the rise in level
> of several examinations due to mal practices of several candidates in
> exams  with the help of scribes.
> The latest recruitment for SBI- probationary officer saw a path
> breaking cut off for visually impaired having difference of only about
> 2 marks with general category .
> I think now it is a very alarming situation and we should strive
> forward for use of technology in exams for visually impaired so that
> we can give freely our exams without help of any individual and I can
> assure that the cut off's will definitely go down and only deserving
> candidates with sound knowledge of screen reading softwares like jaws
> and nvda be selected for such posts.
> my opinion rests with use of screen reading softwares in exam centres
> rather than use of scribes which are very much difficult to be
> invigilated at the exam centres and now with the advent of new
> technology each and every visually impaired must be aquinted with the
> knowledge of screen reading softwares for there day to day work in
> their offices and the exam if conducted with the help of screen
> reading softwares will definitely be helpful to recruit only deserving
> candidates with satisfactory knowledge of screen reading softwares.
> thanks and regards
> Avee Gupta
> UIICL
>
> The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>
> You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please
> visit the list home page at
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>


-- 
Best,

Mujeeb Rahman
Trust me, Had this world is to enjoy, it would have been much better.

The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in

You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in




Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[avinash shahi]

Dear Kanchan mam, Still you've 11 minutes for the meeting to start.
Please, ask the ministry to dig in the archive of the complaints
received by the CCPD Office over the years regarding bad scribes
provided by SSC/CBSE/UGC/UPSC. The situation at states' level is even
worse.  There are a number of newspaper reports'  detailing this harsh
reality. I'm sure there are plenty of cases to rely upon to send the
point home that restriction or necessity of a lower grade scribe is
regressive idea.


On 12/15/17, Renuka Warriar Edakkunni <eren...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I support Avinash's and Dinesh's views.  Strict supervision and if
> necessary, c c t v recording will reduce the malpractice to a great
> extense.
>
> Renuka.
>
> On 12/15/17, Srinivasu Chakravarthula <li...@srinivasu.org> wrote:
>> Kanchan,
>> I think what Dinesh is referring is CCTV recording. Now-a-days use of
>> CCTV
>> is quite common everywhere and even may already exist in exam centres. I
>> don't think he is talking about video shoot or something like that.
>>
>> Best,
>> Vasu
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
>> Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com
>>
>> Let's create an inclusive web!
>>
>> Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kanchan Pamnani
>> <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dinesh I am not questioning you for the sake of arguing but for
>>> strengthening my stand tomorrow.Is video recording feasible for exams in
>>> schools colleges and competitive exams in various classrooms.
>>>   -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Dinesh Kaushal
>>> Sent: 14 December 2017 18:15
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning
>>> the disabled.'
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>>>
>>> I guess we may not have to worry about all these conditions if video
>>> recording of the session could be made mandatory. Video recording should
>>> be
>>> submitted so that anytime any authority could verify if any cheating
>>> happened.
>>> for any
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:59 PM
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning
>>> the disabled.' <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>>>
>>>
>>> See the opinion of some stake holders. I had started answering these but
>>> got
>>> foxed with NIVH -our apex body.
>>> Now what to do friends when we have to face ourselves.
>>>
>>> 1.  SSC
>>> Candidate allowed to bring their own scribe can misuse this facility
>>> which
>>> could adversely impact the transparency and integrity of the
>>> examination.
>>> It
>>> also has the potential to disrupt the level playing field for other
>>> candidates in this category who accept the scribe provided by the
>>> Commission. i. Moreover the propensity for allegations/complaints of
>>> unfair
>>> practises could also be high.
>>> Kp Supervision which is the responsibility of the Examining Authority
>>>
>>> 2.  CBSE
>>> Scribe should not have obtained qualification in same subject in which
>>> the
>>> candidate is appearing for the examination and should be one class lower
>>> than the candidate
>>> 3.  National Trust
>>> Scribe/reader/lab Assistant should be qualified according to the need of
>>> the
>>> examination and should be conversant with the language of the
>>> examination.
>>> He should not be overqualified as he may unduly assist the
>>> PwD/candidate.
>>> KP Ok
>>> 4.   IPH
>>> Whenever possible the PwD should have the same scribe for written
>>> assessments as they had for other classroom tests. In all cases, the
>>> scribe
>>> must have an understating of how to record responses using procedures
>>> described and familiar with the test including knowledge of vocabulary
>>> used
>>> in the test.
>>> Scribe should not be in blood r

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Renuka Warriar Edakkunni]

I support Avinash's and Dinesh's views.  Strict supervision and if
necessary, c c t v recording will reduce the malpractice to a great
extense.

Renuka.

On 12/15/17, Srinivasu Chakravarthula <li...@srinivasu.org> wrote:
> Kanchan,
> I think what Dinesh is referring is CCTV recording. Now-a-days use of CCTV
> is quite common everywhere and even may already exist in exam centres. I
> don't think he is talking about video shoot or something like that.
>
> Best,
> Vasu
>
> Regards,
>
> Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
> Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com
>
> Let's create an inclusive web!
>
> Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dinesh I am not questioning you for the sake of arguing but for
>> strengthening my stand tomorrow.Is video recording feasible for exams in
>> schools colleges and competitive exams in various classrooms.
>>   -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Dinesh Kaushal
>> Sent: 14 December 2017 18:15
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning
>> the disabled.'
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>>
>> I guess we may not have to worry about all these conditions if video
>> recording of the session could be made mandatory. Video recording should
>> be
>> submitted so that anytime any authority could verify if any cheating
>> happened.
>> for any
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:59 PM
>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning
>> the disabled.' <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>>
>>
>> See the opinion of some stake holders. I had started answering these but
>> got
>> foxed with NIVH -our apex body.
>> Now what to do friends when we have to face ourselves.
>>
>> 1.  SSC
>> Candidate allowed to bring their own scribe can misuse this facility
>> which
>> could adversely impact the transparency and integrity of the examination.
>> It
>> also has the potential to disrupt the level playing field for other
>> candidates in this category who accept the scribe provided by the
>> Commission. i. Moreover the propensity for allegations/complaints of
>> unfair
>> practises could also be high.
>> Kp Supervision which is the responsibility of the Examining Authority
>>
>> 2.  CBSE
>> Scribe should not have obtained qualification in same subject in which
>> the
>> candidate is appearing for the examination and should be one class lower
>> than the candidate
>> 3.  National Trust
>> Scribe/reader/lab Assistant should be qualified according to the need of
>> the
>> examination and should be conversant with the language of the
>> examination.
>> He should not be overqualified as he may unduly assist the PwD/candidate.
>> KP Ok
>> 4.   IPH
>> Whenever possible the PwD should have the same scribe for written
>> assessments as they had for other classroom tests. In all cases, the
>> scribe
>> must have an understating of how to record responses using procedures
>> described and familiar with the test including knowledge of vocabulary
>> used
>> in the test.
>> Scribe should not be in blood relation with the Pwds KP cannot have the
>> same
>> scribe Scribe should not be in blood relation to the candidate Kp OK NIVH
>> NIHH left open to the examining bodies In case of graduate level
>> examination
>> the scribe can be a graduate from a different stream In case of Master
>> Level
>> Examination the scribe cab be from a different
>> discipline than that of the candidate. A   graduate level  scribe from
>> the
>> same discipline can be allowed for aMaster level examination in such a
>> case
>> the percentage of marks of graduate level scribe should be more than 60%
>> For
>> entrance and school tests involving basic qualification of candidate upto
>> 12th std the qualification of the scribe should be one step lower than
>> that
>> of the candidate. For example 12th class candidate may be allowed an 11th
>> class with not more than 70% marks. In case the candidate chooses a
&

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Srinivasu Chakravarthula]

Kanchan,
I think what Dinesh is referring is CCTV recording. Now-a-days use of CCTV
is quite common everywhere and even may already exist in exam centres. I
don't think he is talking about video shoot or something like that.

Best,
Vasu

Regards,

Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com

Let's create an inclusive web!

Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica


On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dinesh I am not questioning you for the sake of arguing but for
> strengthening my stand tomorrow.Is video recording feasible for exams in
> schools colleges and competitive exams in various classrooms.
>   -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf
> Of Dinesh Kaushal
> Sent: 14 December 2017 18:15
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.'
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> I guess we may not have to worry about all these conditions if video
> recording of the session could be made mandatory. Video recording should be
> submitted so that anytime any authority could verify if any cheating
> happened.
> for any
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf
> Of Kanchan Pamnani
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:59 PM
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.' <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
>
> See the opinion of some stake holders. I had started answering these but
> got
> foxed with NIVH -our apex body.
> Now what to do friends when we have to face ourselves.
>
> 1.  SSC
> Candidate allowed to bring their own scribe can misuse this facility which
> could adversely impact the transparency and integrity of the examination.
> It
> also has the potential to disrupt the level playing field for other
> candidates in this category who accept the scribe provided by the
> Commission. i. Moreover the propensity for allegations/complaints of unfair
> practises could also be high.
> Kp Supervision which is the responsibility of the Examining Authority
>
> 2.  CBSE
> Scribe should not have obtained qualification in same subject in which the
> candidate is appearing for the examination and should be one class lower
> than the candidate
> 3.  National Trust
> Scribe/reader/lab Assistant should be qualified according to the need of
> the
> examination and should be conversant with the language of the examination.
> He should not be overqualified as he may unduly assist the PwD/candidate.
> KP Ok
> 4.   IPH
> Whenever possible the PwD should have the same scribe for written
> assessments as they had for other classroom tests. In all cases, the scribe
> must have an understating of how to record responses using procedures
> described and familiar with the test including knowledge of vocabulary used
> in the test.
> Scribe should not be in blood relation with the Pwds KP cannot have the
> same
> scribe Scribe should not be in blood relation to the candidate Kp OK NIVH
> NIHH left open to the examining bodies In case of graduate level
> examination
> the scribe can be a graduate from a different stream In case of Master
> Level
> Examination the scribe cab be from a different
> discipline than that of the candidate. A   graduate level  scribe from the
> same discipline can be allowed for aMaster level examination in such a case
> the percentage of marks of graduate level scribe should be more than 60%
> For
> entrance and school tests involving basic qualification of candidate upto
> 12th std the qualification of the scribe should be one step lower than that
> of the candidate. For example 12th class candidate may be allowed an 11th
> class with not more than 70% marks. In case the candidate chooses a scribe
> 10th class pass then there should be no restriction on percentage of marks.
>
> CCPD
> The Para IV provides option to the candidate for opting their own scribe or
> request the examination body for the same. Both the option are relevant.
> However keeping in view the gravity of the examination candidate's own
> scribe should not be his/her close relative such as parents siblings etc
> The
> Qualification of the scribe mustbe lower than the candidate however scribe
> frim the same subject area may be allowed provided having lower
> qualification Guidelines should clearly mention that parents and close
> relatives will not be allowed as scribe.
>
> Close relative OK
>
> V 1. SSC
> S

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Avee Gupta]

I agree with the opinion of not imposing any restrictions on scribe
guidelines but as far as my knowledge the cut of's  of various
examinations like IBPS and SBI officer as well as clerical have multi
folded in these 4 years .
Since 2014 the cut off has almost doubled instead of the rise in level
of several examinations due to mal practices of several candidates in
exams  with the help of scribes.
The latest recruitment for SBI- probationary officer saw a path
breaking cut off for visually impaired having difference of only about
2 marks with general category .
I think now it is a very alarming situation and we should strive
forward for use of technology in exams for visually impaired so that
we can give freely our exams without help of any individual and I can
assure that the cut off's will definitely go down and only deserving
candidates with sound knowledge of screen reading softwares like jaws
and nvda be selected for such posts.
my opinion rests with use of screen reading softwares in exam centres
rather than use of scribes which are very much difficult to be
invigilated at the exam centres and now with the advent of new
technology each and every visually impaired must be aquinted with the
knowledge of screen reading softwares for there day to day work in
their offices and the exam if conducted with the help of screen
reading softwares will definitely be helpful to recruit only deserving
candidates with satisfactory knowledge of screen reading softwares.
thanks and regards
Avee Gupta
UIICL

The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in

You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in




Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/

To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
with the subject unsubscribe.

To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please 
visit the list home page at
http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in


Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Yogesh Chhabra]

I believe invigilation should be more strict and strengthened rather
than putting restrictions. an examiner should be seeted in front of
the candidate similar to railway examinations where a separate
examiner was there in frunt of VI candidate and was seeing the
activities. it is more fair and correct. let's take an example if in a
hall all VI candidates are giving exams, 2-3 examiners can invigilate
the activities and they can satisfy themselves. if they find something
which should not happen then examiner should have a rite to make the
vidio of such candidate so that facts can be recorded.



On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Turab,
> These guidelines are supposed to apply all over India and for every exam
> but
> I am told today that I I T  has its own rules for scribes for the entrance
> exams and they are not relenting.  In this matter partially the courts seem
> to have gone against us. I don't have the judgement but I wonder why it was
> not taken to the Supreme court by our friends on this list.
> K
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of turab chimthanawala
> Sent: 14 December 2017 17:12
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> Dear Kanchan Ma'am,
> Apologies for not contributing much to the precise question as I do not
> have
> the OM at hand.
> My only request is that whatever the outcome of the meeting, please ensure
> that
>
>  the guidelines formulated are uniform for all exams having overriding
> effect over all unique and stupid rules or sub rules of the concerned
> university/ college/ institute.
> It is frustrating and irritating to fulfill unique criteria for different
> exams.
> Also, please ensure that these guidelines are circulated to all concerned.
> It is a  horrifying experience to fight with the exam authorities a day
> before the exam.
> Thanks in anticipation.
> Best
> Turab
>
> On 12/14/17, avinash shahi <shahi88avin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> No limitations should be imposed on scribes. The only remedy to check
>> the mal-practices is strict vigilance. Just think how non-scribe user
>> examinees are not allowed to cheat cause the strict enforcement
>> mechanisms. the limitation such as Educational qualification is an
>> absurd and the government had rightly done away with in the past.
>> Until we've requisite modification in the exam patern for majority of
>> jobs and computers are not equipped with screen reading softwares at
>> the exam venue, the candidates should not be burdened with unnecessary
>> limitations/restrictions. You please lobby for reforms in the patern
>> of exams rather than putting archaic restrictions which had ruined
>> many brilliant candidates' future due to discriminatory writer rules.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Referring to OM of 26th Feb 2013
>>>
>>> What limitations can we allow on scribes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is critical because tomorrow there is a meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Someone has gone to the Bombay High Court and asked that private
>>> scribes be banned. Luckily the court has not agreed with this
>>> decision.
>>>
>>> However we will have to agree to some restrictions.
>>>
>>> The malpractises and complaints about malpractises is going out of hand.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please help!
>>>
>>> At present there is no limitation and there is wide spread  misuse by
>>> our community
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> K
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> http://www.avg.com
>>> The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>>>
>>> You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Search for old postings at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>>
>>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
>>> please visit the list home page at
>>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.or
>>> g.in
>>>
>>>
>>> Disclaimer:
>>> 1. Conte

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Mohib Anwar Rafay]

I think keeping one grade lower may work in school and university
examination if taking scribe from the same stream, but this formula
shouldn't be fixed for competetive examination. As most of the
competetive examination have the eligibility being graduate, as
happens in most of the state and all India civil services examination.
It mean all the time a candidate appearing in civil services
examination will have to necessarily engage a scribe who has not
earned his bachellor degree. It will be a harsh restriction looking at
the examination pattern, as the scribe should be quite efficient in
reading and writing. moreover one grade lower criteria may be
problematic in UGC NET and Centrel Eligibility test, as the
eligibility of UGC Net exam is Master degree, mean  first year student
of the same master degree may sit as the scribe of the candidate? Here
again the chances of cheating will be there.
Therefore better we defend the currently existing office memorendum .

On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How about this :
>
> 3. Scribes chosen by Candidate
>
>
> a. In case the candidate avails the services of his/her own scribe/writer,
> the scribe/writer   should be one grade junior in academic qualification
> than the candidate if from the same stream.  However, this condition shall
> not apply if the scribe/writer is from a different stream.
>
> b. For competitive examinations the scribe needs to be one level below the
> eligibility criteria of the competitive exam in consideration.
>
> c. For internal exams of schools and colleges the condition of the scribe
> being one grade junior in academic qualification than the candidate should
> not be enforced strictly as this would cause undue hardship to the
> candidate
> and give rise to unviable solutions.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Amit Jain
> Sent: 14 December 2017 19:52
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> I do not take the facility of scribe but people who use the facility have
> no
> chocie but to take scribes provided by the institute which are mostly
> teaching associates (who work with faculty members in teaching and
> research) and in some cases doctoral students.
>
> Looking at the comments from different organizations, I could think of the
> following
>
> 1. If scribe is also qualified to take the exam or has taken the exam
> previosly then a restriction is necesary to avoid malpractices. It could be
> that the scribe should have a maximum grades/marks in the subject/overall
> marks/GPA. *There was a case in some institute (I canot name it) whre the
> first year MBA student actually chose the scribe from second year MBA
> students based on their first year grades in the subject. *If we restrict
> totally the overqualified  people as scribe then first year students in
> residential camous will always be at loss as there will be no junior to
> help
> them and they may not be in their city of schooling  Not sure how this can
> translate into competititve examinations like UPSE, SSC CAT etc.
>
> 2. If the student qualification is lower then no such restriction should be
> there.
>
> In case I have any other thought/suggestion, I will share with the group.
>
> Regards
> ]Amit Jain
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 7:14 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> So Amit who did you use as your scribe for the first yearof the MBA
> course?
>> What else can I give to salvage this situation.
>> See the comments of the authorities including NIVH in my other emails
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Amit Jain
>> Sent: 14 December 2017 19:06
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>>
>> One batch lower would be a harsh condition I would say.
>>
>> Take IIMs as an example, MBA is for two years, so when I enter in the
>> first year, I will have no junior to help me out, seniors is out of
>> question, so there is effectively no pool for me to choose a scrieb
>> and I have to depend on the institute to provide scribes. This will
>> happen with most of the campus colleges which are far away from the city.
>>
>> Regards
>> Amit
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Kanchan Pamnani
>> <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Lets get the facts straight.
>> > 1. Th

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Kanchan Pamnani]

OK now I am closing. 
If any one wants to get in touch please call on +919022029126.
Don't call between 7 am and 9.30am as I will be on the flight. 
Meeting at 11am. 
K

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Amit Jain
Sent: 14 December 2017 19:52
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

I do not take the facility of scribe but people who use the facility have no
chocie but to take scribes provided by the institute which are mostly
teaching associates (who work with faculty members in teaching and
research) and in some cases doctoral students.

Looking at the comments from different organizations, I could think of the
following

1. If scribe is also qualified to take the exam or has taken the exam
previosly then a restriction is necesary to avoid malpractices. It could be
that the scribe should have a maximum grades/marks in the subject/overall
marks/GPA. *There was a case in some institute (I canot name it) whre the
first year MBA student actually chose the scribe from second year MBA
students based on their first year grades in the subject. *If we restrict
totally the overqualified  people as scribe then first year students in
residential camous will always be at loss as there will be no junior to help
them and they may not be in their city of schooling  Not sure how this can
translate into competititve examinations like UPSE, SSC CAT etc.

2. If the student qualification is lower then no such restriction should be
there.

In case I have any other thought/suggestion, I will share with the group.

Regards
]Amit Jain

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 7:14 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> So Amit who did you use as your scribe for the first yearof the MBA
course?
> What else can I give to salvage this situation.
> See the comments of the authorities including NIVH in my other emails
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Amit Jain
> Sent: 14 December 2017 19:06
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> One batch lower would be a harsh condition I would say.
>
> Take IIMs as an example, MBA is for two years, so when I enter in the 
> first year, I will have no junior to help me out, seniors is out of 
> question, so there is effectively no pool for me to choose a scrieb 
> and I have to depend on the institute to provide scribes. This will 
> happen with most of the campus colleges which are far away from the city.
>
> Regards
> Amit
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Kanchan Pamnani 
> <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Lets get the facts straight.
> > 1. These guidelines are wonderful.
> > 2. There has been a lot of misuse by many candidates.
> > 3. Many of the candidates have complained to the Authorities.
> > 4. We as the sector should have complained about it and disciplined 
> > our juniors I have heard private grumblings from many but no one has 
> > taken it up legally.
> > 5. There has been only one complaint regarding a bad scribe given by 
> > the Authorities or atleast that is what I have been informed in one 
> > of the meetings.
> > 6. The Expert committee was set up by the Ministry and not by Court.
> > 7. It was set up on the request of UPSC and they had facts and 
> > figures to back them.
> > 8. The visually impaired community is represented-Mr. rungta, Ms.
> > Anuradha Dalmia, S. R. Mittal and I 9. I will defend these 
> > guidelines that is no restriction on scribes even though NIVH has 
> > taken a different stand.
> > 10. If we need to compromise and give a little then:
> > a. Definitely no close or blood relative and spouse should be 
> > allowed as scribe.
> > B. What do you all think about the one batch lower than the exam in 
> > question. This was in the 2006 Bombay High Court guidelines. If you 
> > all could respond to this I will be grateful.
> > Thanks
> > Kanchan
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> > Behalf Of Mohib Anwar Rafay
> > Sent: 14 December 2017 17:53
> > To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> > concerning the disabled.
> > Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
> >
> > The court doesn't take notice of the incidents those occur because 
> > of bad scribe or completely worthless scribes provided by exam 
> > centres, and also court doesn't deliberate upon outlandish scribe 
> > guidel

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Turab, 
These guidelines are supposed to apply all over India and for every exam but
I am told today that I I T  has its own rules for scribes for the entrance
exams and they are not relenting.  In this matter partially the courts seem
to have gone against us. I don't have the judgement but I wonder why it was
not taken to the Supreme court by our friends on this list. 
K 

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of turab chimthanawala
Sent: 14 December 2017 17:12
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

Dear Kanchan Ma'am,
Apologies for not contributing much to the precise question as I do not have
the OM at hand.
My only request is that whatever the outcome of the meeting, please ensure
that

 the guidelines formulated are uniform for all exams having overriding
effect over all unique and stupid rules or sub rules of the concerned
university/ college/ institute.
It is frustrating and irritating to fulfill unique criteria for different
exams.
Also, please ensure that these guidelines are circulated to all concerned.
It is a  horrifying experience to fight with the exam authorities a day
before the exam.
Thanks in anticipation.
Best
Turab

On 12/14/17, avinash shahi <shahi88avin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No limitations should be imposed on scribes. The only remedy to check 
> the mal-practices is strict vigilance. Just think how non-scribe user 
> examinees are not allowed to cheat cause the strict enforcement 
> mechanisms. the limitation such as Educational qualification is an 
> absurd and the government had rightly done away with in the past.
> Until we've requisite modification in the exam patern for majority of 
> jobs and computers are not equipped with screen reading softwares at 
> the exam venue, the candidates should not be burdened with unnecessary 
> limitations/restrictions. You please lobby for reforms in the patern 
> of exams rather than putting archaic restrictions which had ruined 
> many brilliant candidates' future due to discriminatory writer rules.
>
>
>
> On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Referring to OM of 26th Feb 2013
>>
>> What limitations can we allow on scribes
>>
>>
>>
>> This is critical because tomorrow there is a meeting.
>>
>>
>>
>> Someone has gone to the Bombay High Court and asked that private 
>> scribes be banned. Luckily the court has not agreed with this 
>> decision.
>>
>> However we will have to agree to some restrictions.
>>
>> The malpractises and complaints about malpractises is going out of hand.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please help!
>>
>> At present there is no limitation and there is wide spread  misuse by 
>> our community
>>
>>
>>
>> K
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>> The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>>
>> You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>
>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, 
>> please visit the list home page at 
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.or
>> g.in
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking 
>> of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its 
>> veracity;
>>
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the 
>> mails sent through this mailing list..
>>
>
>
> --
> Avinash Shahi
> Doctoral student at Centre for Law and Governance JNU
>
> The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>
> You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
please
> visit the list home page at
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
the
> pers

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Kanchan Pamnani]

How about this :

3. Scribes chosen by Candidate 
 

a. In case the candidate avails the services of his/her own scribe/writer,
the scribe/writer   should be one grade junior in academic qualification
than the candidate if from the same stream.  However, this condition shall
not apply if the scribe/writer is from a different stream.

b. For competitive examinations the scribe needs to be one level below the
eligibility criteria of the competitive exam in consideration.

c. For internal exams of schools and colleges the condition of the scribe
being one grade junior in academic qualification than the candidate should
not be enforced strictly as this would cause undue hardship to the candidate
and give rise to unviable solutions.   

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Amit Jain
Sent: 14 December 2017 19:52
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

I do not take the facility of scribe but people who use the facility have no
chocie but to take scribes provided by the institute which are mostly
teaching associates (who work with faculty members in teaching and
research) and in some cases doctoral students.

Looking at the comments from different organizations, I could think of the
following

1. If scribe is also qualified to take the exam or has taken the exam
previosly then a restriction is necesary to avoid malpractices. It could be
that the scribe should have a maximum grades/marks in the subject/overall
marks/GPA. *There was a case in some institute (I canot name it) whre the
first year MBA student actually chose the scribe from second year MBA
students based on their first year grades in the subject. *If we restrict
totally the overqualified  people as scribe then first year students in
residential camous will always be at loss as there will be no junior to help
them and they may not be in their city of schooling  Not sure how this can
translate into competititve examinations like UPSE, SSC CAT etc.

2. If the student qualification is lower then no such restriction should be
there.

In case I have any other thought/suggestion, I will share with the group.

Regards
]Amit Jain

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 7:14 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> So Amit who did you use as your scribe for the first yearof the MBA
course?
> What else can I give to salvage this situation.
> See the comments of the authorities including NIVH in my other emails
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Amit Jain
> Sent: 14 December 2017 19:06
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> One batch lower would be a harsh condition I would say.
>
> Take IIMs as an example, MBA is for two years, so when I enter in the 
> first year, I will have no junior to help me out, seniors is out of 
> question, so there is effectively no pool for me to choose a scrieb 
> and I have to depend on the institute to provide scribes. This will 
> happen with most of the campus colleges which are far away from the city.
>
> Regards
> Amit
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Kanchan Pamnani 
> <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Lets get the facts straight.
> > 1. These guidelines are wonderful.
> > 2. There has been a lot of misuse by many candidates.
> > 3. Many of the candidates have complained to the Authorities.
> > 4. We as the sector should have complained about it and disciplined 
> > our juniors I have heard private grumblings from many but no one has 
> > taken it up legally.
> > 5. There has been only one complaint regarding a bad scribe given by 
> > the Authorities or atleast that is what I have been informed in one 
> > of the meetings.
> > 6. The Expert committee was set up by the Ministry and not by Court.
> > 7. It was set up on the request of UPSC and they had facts and 
> > figures to back them.
> > 8. The visually impaired community is represented-Mr. rungta, Ms.
> > Anuradha Dalmia, S. R. Mittal and I 9. I will defend these 
> > guidelines that is no restriction on scribes even though NIVH has 
> > taken a different stand.
> > 10. If we need to compromise and give a little then:
> > a. Definitely no close or blood relative and spouse should be 
> > allowed as scribe.
> > B. What do you all think about the one batch lower than the exam in 
> > question. This was in the 2006 Bombay High Court guidelines. If you 
> > all could respond to this I will be grateful.
> > Thanks
> > Kanchan
> > -Original Message-----
> &g

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Amit Jain]

I do not take the facility of scribe but people who use the facility have
no chocie but to take scribes provided by the institute which are mostly
teaching associates (who work with faculty members in teaching and
research) and in some cases doctoral students.

Looking at the comments from different organizations, I could think of the
following

1. If scribe is also qualified to take the exam or has taken the exam
previosly then a restriction is necesary to avoid malpractices. It could be
that the scribe should have a maximum grades/marks in the subject/overall
marks/GPA. *There was a case in some institute (I canot name it) whre the
first year MBA student actually chose the scribe from second year MBA
students based on their first year grades in the subject. *If we restrict
totally the overqualified  people as scribe then first year students in
residential camous will always be at loss as there will be no junior to
help them and they may not be in their city of schooling  Not sure how this
can translate into competititve examinations like UPSE, SSC CAT etc.

2. If the student qualification is lower then no such restriction should be
there.

In case I have any other thought/suggestion, I will share with the group.

Regards
]Amit Jain

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 7:14 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> So Amit who did you use as your scribe for the first yearof the MBA course?
> What else can I give to salvage this situation.
> See the comments of the authorities including NIVH in my other emails
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf
> Of Amit Jain
> Sent: 14 December 2017 19:06
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> One batch lower would be a harsh condition I would say.
>
> Take IIMs as an example, MBA is for two years, so when I enter in the first
> year, I will have no junior to help me out, seniors is out of question, so
> there is effectively no pool for me to choose a scrieb and I have to depend
> on the institute to provide scribes. This will happen with most of the
> campus colleges which are far away from the city.
>
> Regards
> Amit
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Lets get the facts straight.
> > 1. These guidelines are wonderful.
> > 2. There has been a lot of misuse by many candidates.
> > 3. Many of the candidates have complained to the Authorities.
> > 4. We as the sector should have complained about it and disciplined
> > our juniors I have heard private grumblings from many but no one has
> > taken it up legally.
> > 5. There has been only one complaint regarding a bad scribe given by
> > the Authorities or atleast that is what I have been informed in one of
> > the meetings.
> > 6. The Expert committee was set up by the Ministry and not by Court.
> > 7. It was set up on the request of UPSC and they had facts and figures
> > to back them.
> > 8. The visually impaired community is represented-Mr. rungta, Ms.
> > Anuradha Dalmia, S. R. Mittal and I 9. I will defend these guidelines
> > that is no restriction on scribes even though NIVH has taken a
> > different stand.
> > 10. If we need to compromise and give a little then:
> > a. Definitely no close or blood relative and spouse should be allowed
> > as scribe.
> > B. What do you all think about the one batch lower than the exam in
> > question. This was in the 2006 Bombay High Court guidelines. If you
> > all could respond to this I will be grateful.
> > Thanks
> > Kanchan
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> > Behalf Of Mohib Anwar Rafay
> > Sent: 14 December 2017 17:53
> > To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
> > concerning the disabled.
> > Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
> >
> > The court doesn't take notice of the incidents those occur because of
> > bad scribe or completely worthless scribes provided by exam centres,
> > and also court doesn't deliberate upon outlandish scribe guidelines
> > set by public authorities like so called public service commissions of
> > the states! Yes, court quickly jumps upon setting up the committee for
> > looking the possibility for changing such revolutionary scribe
> > guidelines. I am totally in agreement with what has been said by
> > Avinash, the burdon of strict invigilation should  be on the exam
> > conducting authority, or provide accessible examination environment by
> provi

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Kanchan Pamnani]

GoodAbichal. Now we come to the truth. 
I will still defend the guidelines however if I have to give in then what
limited restriction should I accept.
I think one year lower is liveable. What do others think. 
Kanchan 
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Avichal Bhatnagar
Sent: 14 December 2017 19:23
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

I might be castigated for saying this, but still I will say it as it is the
truth.
There needs to be some reasonable restrictions on scribes as I myself have
seen people of my own community blatantly misusing the provisions put in
place for helping them.
Those places where computer operations are a part of the job, exams should
compulsorily be taken on the computer in accessible environment.
For university, school and other academic exams, scribes of similar and over
qualification should be absolutely prohibited, Remember, we can claim our
rights only if and when we are eligible for judiciously using them.


On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Lets get the facts straight.
> 1. These guidelines are wonderful.
> 2. There has been a lot of misuse by many candidates.
> 3. Many of the candidates have complained to the Authorities.
> 4. We as the sector should have complained about it and disciplined 
> our juniors I have heard private grumblings from many but no one has 
> taken it up legally.
> 5. There has been only one complaint regarding a bad scribe given by 
> the Authorities or atleast that is what I have been informed in one of 
> the meetings.
> 6. The Expert committee was set up by the Ministry and not by Court.
> 7. It was set up on the request of UPSC and they had facts and figures 
> to back them.
> 8. The visually impaired community is represented-Mr. rungta, Ms. 
> Anuradha Dalmia, S. R. Mittal and I 8. I will defend these guidelines 
> even -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Mohib Anwar Rafay
> Sent: 14 December 2017 17:53
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> The court doesn't take notice of the incidents those occur because of 
> bad scribe or completely worthless scribes provided by exam centres, 
> and also court doesn't deliberate upon outlandish scribe guidelines 
> set by public authorities like so called public service commissions of 
> the states! Yes, court quickly jumps upon setting up the committee for 
> looking the possibility for changing such revolutionary scribe 
> guidelines. I am totally in agreement with what has been said by 
> Avinash, the burdon of strict invigilation should  be on the exam 
> conducting authority, or provide accessible examination environment by 
> providing computer and screenreaders.
>
> On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Avinash
>> Agree with you completely.
>> However someone has gone to the Bombay High Court and asked for ban 
>> of private scribes. Luckily court has not agreed but has put the onus 
>> on the Expert Committeee which is meeting tomorrow.
>> Will try and send you comments of NIVH to understand how we are going 
>> to fall.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>> Behalf Of avinash shahi
>> Sent: 14 December 2017 16:43
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>>
>> No limitations should be imposed on scribes. The only remedy to check 
>> the mal-practices is strict vigilance. Just think how non-scribe user 
>> examinees are not allowed to cheat cause the strict enforcement 
>> mechanisms. the limitation such as Educational qualification is an 
>> absurd and the government had rightly done away with in the past.
>> Until we've requisite modification in the exam patern for majority of 
>> jobs and computers are not equipped with screen reading softwares at 
>> the exam venue, the candidates should not be burdened with 
>> unnecessary limitations/restrictions. You please lobby for reforms in 
>> the patern of exams rather than putting archaic restrictions which 
>> had ruined many brilliant candidates' future due to discriminatory writer
rules.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Referring to OM of 26th Feb 2013
>>>
>>> What limitations can we allow on sc

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Avichal Bhatnagar]

I might be castigated for saying this, but still I will say it as it
is the truth.
There needs to be some reasonable restrictions on scribes as I myself
have seen people of my own community blatantly misusing the provisions
put in place for helping them.
Those places where computer operations are a part of the job, exams
should compulsorily be taken on the computer in accessible
environment.
For university, school and other academic exams, scribes of similar
and over qualification should be absolutely prohibited,
Remember, we can claim our rights only if and when we are eligible for
judiciously using them.


On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Lets get the facts straight.
> 1. These guidelines are wonderful.
> 2. There has been a lot of misuse by many candidates.
> 3. Many of the candidates have complained to the Authorities.
> 4. We as the sector should have complained about it and disciplined our
> juniors I have heard private grumblings from many but no one has taken it
> up legally.
> 5. There has been only one complaint regarding a bad scribe given by the
> Authorities or atleast that is what I have been informed in one of the
> meetings.
> 6. The Expert committee was set up by the Ministry and not by Court.
> 7. It was set up on the request of UPSC and they had facts and figures to
> back them.
> 8. The visually impaired community is represented-Mr. rungta, Ms. Anuradha
> Dalmia, S. R. Mittal and I
> 8. I will defend these guidelines even
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf Of Mohib Anwar Rafay
> Sent: 14 December 2017 17:53
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> The court doesn't take notice of the incidents those occur because of bad
> scribe or completely worthless scribes provided by exam centres, and also
> court doesn't deliberate upon outlandish scribe guidelines set by public
> authorities like so called public service commissions of the states! Yes,
> court quickly jumps upon setting up the committee for looking the
> possibility for changing such revolutionary scribe guidelines. I am
> totally in agreement with what has been said by Avinash, the burdon of
> strict invigilation should  be on the exam conducting authority, or
> provide accessible examination environment by providing computer and
> screenreaders.
>
> On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Avinash
>> Agree with you completely.
>> However someone has gone to the Bombay High Court and asked for ban of
>> private scribes. Luckily court has not agreed but has put the onus on
>> the Expert Committeee which is meeting tomorrow.
>> Will try and send you comments of NIVH to understand how we are going
>> to fall.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of avinash shahi
>> Sent: 14 December 2017 16:43
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>>
>> No limitations should be imposed on scribes. The only remedy to check
>> the mal-practices is strict vigilance. Just think how non-scribe user
>> examinees are not allowed to cheat cause the strict enforcement
>> mechanisms. the limitation such as Educational qualification is an
>> absurd and the government had rightly done away with in the past.
>> Until we've requisite modification in the exam patern for majority of
>> jobs and computers are not equipped with screen reading softwares at
>> the exam venue, the candidates should not be burdened with unnecessary
>> limitations/restrictions. You please lobby for reforms in the patern
>> of exams rather than putting archaic restrictions which had ruined
>> many brilliant candidates' future due to discriminatory writer rules.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Referring to OM of 26th Feb 2013
>>>
>>> What limitations can we allow on scribes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is critical because tomorrow there is a meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Someone has gone to the Bombay High Court and asked that private
>>> scribes be banned. Luckily the court has not agreed with this decision.
>>>
>>> However we will have to agree to some restrictions.
>>>
>>> The malpractises and complaints about malpractises is going out of
> hand.
>>>
>>>
>&

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Kanchan Pamnani]

So Amit who did you use as your scribe for the first yearof the MBA course?
What else can I give to salvage this situation. 
See the comments of the authorities including NIVH in my other emails

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Amit Jain
Sent: 14 December 2017 19:06
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

One batch lower would be a harsh condition I would say.

Take IIMs as an example, MBA is for two years, so when I enter in the first
year, I will have no junior to help me out, seniors is out of question, so
there is effectively no pool for me to choose a scrieb and I have to depend
on the institute to provide scribes. This will happen with most of the
campus colleges which are far away from the city.

Regards
Amit

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Lets get the facts straight.
> 1. These guidelines are wonderful.
> 2. There has been a lot of misuse by many candidates.
> 3. Many of the candidates have complained to the Authorities.
> 4. We as the sector should have complained about it and disciplined 
> our juniors I have heard private grumblings from many but no one has 
> taken it up legally.
> 5. There has been only one complaint regarding a bad scribe given by 
> the Authorities or atleast that is what I have been informed in one of 
> the meetings.
> 6. The Expert committee was set up by the Ministry and not by Court.
> 7. It was set up on the request of UPSC and they had facts and figures 
> to back them.
> 8. The visually impaired community is represented-Mr. rungta, Ms. 
> Anuradha Dalmia, S. R. Mittal and I 9. I will defend these guidelines 
> that is no restriction on scribes even though NIVH has taken a 
> different stand.
> 10. If we need to compromise and give a little then:
> a. Definitely no close or blood relative and spouse should be allowed 
> as scribe.
> B. What do you all think about the one batch lower than the exam in 
> question. This was in the 2006 Bombay High Court guidelines. If you 
> all could respond to this I will be grateful.
> Thanks
> Kanchan
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Mohib Anwar Rafay
> Sent: 14 December 2017 17:53
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> The court doesn't take notice of the incidents those occur because of 
> bad scribe or completely worthless scribes provided by exam centres, 
> and also court doesn't deliberate upon outlandish scribe guidelines 
> set by public authorities like so called public service commissions of 
> the states! Yes, court quickly jumps upon setting up the committee for 
> looking the possibility for changing such revolutionary scribe 
> guidelines. I am totally in agreement with what has been said by 
> Avinash, the burdon of strict invigilation should  be on the exam 
> conducting authority, or provide accessible examination environment by
providing computer and screenreaders.
>
> On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Avinash
> > Agree with you completely.
> > However someone has gone to the Bombay High Court and asked for ban 
> > of private scribes. Luckily court has not agreed but has put the 
> > onus on the Expert Committeee which is meeting tomorrow.
> > Will try and send you comments of NIVH to understand how we are 
> > going to fall.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> > Behalf Of avinash shahi
> > Sent: 14 December 2017 16:43
> > To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> > concerning the disabled.
> > Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
> >
> > No limitations should be imposed on scribes. The only remedy to 
> > check the mal-practices is strict vigilance. Just think how 
> > non-scribe user examinees are not allowed to cheat cause the strict 
> > enforcement mechanisms. the limitation such as Educational 
> > qualification is an absurd and the government had rightly done away with
in the past.
> > Until we've requisite modification in the exam patern for majority 
> > of jobs and computers are not equipped with screen reading softwares 
> > at the exam venue, the candidates should not be burdened with 
> > unnecessary limitations/restrictions. You please lobby for reforms 
> > in the patern of exams rather than putting archaic restrictions 
> > which had ruined m

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Amit Jain]

At our institute we were looking at video recording as a method of
vigilance not an alternate to written answers. But then question was raised
about quality of audio which brought to have audio recording also and then
the whole debate came up

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> Dinesh and Amit
> Are we looking at video recording
> a. instead of the written answers or
> b. video recording of the room in which the exam takes place as a method of
> supervision. Please clarify.
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf
> Of Amit Jain
> Sent: 14 December 2017 18:59
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> As far as my expeirnce goes, video and audio recording may not be feasable.
> When I proposed the same in my institute, my idea was sut doewn based on
> the
> following
>
> 1. The cost may be too high as each candidate will require to have a
> seperate recording required both for audio and video 2. Person and scribe
> would have to do the talking in descent volume so that even the audio is
> recorded and one person in the institute committee went to the extent that
> the person said if all answers are recorded, why we need them on paper, we
> can just listen to recordings. Another challenge with recording would be
> people with speech issue (in case of cerebral palsy) where they may not be
> able to speak loud
>
> People may provide counter arguments on these but just thought to share my
> experience
>
> Regards
> Amit Jain
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Dinesh I am not questioning you for the sake of arguing but for
> > strengthening my stand tomorrow.Is video recording feasible for exams
> > in schools colleges and competitive exams in various classrooms.
> >   -Original Message-
> > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> > Behalf Of Dinesh Kaushal
> > Sent: 14 December 2017 18:15
> > To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
> > concerning the disabled.'
> > Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
> >
> > I guess we may not have to worry about all these conditions if video
> > recording of the session could be made mandatory. Video recording
> > should be submitted so that anytime any authority could verify if any
> > cheating happened.
> > for any
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> > Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
> > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:59 PM
> > To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
> > concerning the disabled.' <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
> > Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
> >
> >
> > See the opinion of some stake holders. I had started answering these
> > but got foxed with NIVH -our apex body.
> > Now what to do friends when we have to face ourselves.
> >
> > 1.  SSC
> > Candidate allowed to bring their own scribe can misuse this facility
> > which could adversely impact the transparency and integrity of the
> examination.
> > It
> > also has the potential to disrupt the level playing field for other
> > candidates in this category who accept the scribe provided by the
> > Commission. i. Moreover the propensity for allegations/complaints of
> > unfair practises could also be high.
> > Kp Supervision which is the responsibility of the Examining Authority
> >
> > 2.  CBSE
> > Scribe should not have obtained qualification in same subject in which
> > the candidate is appearing for the examination and should be one class
> > lower than the candidate
> > 3.  National Trust
> > Scribe/reader/lab Assistant should be qualified according to the need
> > of the examination and should be conversant with the language of the
> > examination.
> > He should not be overqualified as he may unduly assist the PwD/candidate.
> > KP Ok
> > 4.   IPH
> > Whenever possible the PwD should have the same scribe for written
> > assessments as they had for other classroom tests. In all cases, the
> > scribe must have an understating of how to record responses using
> > procedures described and familiar with the test including knowledge of
> > vocabulary used in the test.
> > Scribe should not be in blood relation with the Pwds KP cannot ha

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Amit Jain]

One batch lower would be a harsh condition I would say.

Take IIMs as an example, MBA is for two years, so when I enter in the first
year, I will have no junior to help me out, seniors is out of question, so
there is effectively no pool for me to choose a scrieb and I have to depend
on the institute to provide scribes. This will happen with most of the
campus colleges which are far away from the city.

Regards
Amit

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Lets get the facts straight.
> 1. These guidelines are wonderful.
> 2. There has been a lot of misuse by many candidates.
> 3. Many of the candidates have complained to the Authorities.
> 4. We as the sector should have complained about it and disciplined our
> juniors I have heard private grumblings from many but no one has taken it
> up
> legally.
> 5. There has been only one complaint regarding a bad scribe given by the
> Authorities or atleast that is what I have been informed in one of the
> meetings.
> 6. The Expert committee was set up by the Ministry and not by Court.
> 7. It was set up on the request of UPSC and they had facts and figures to
> back them.
> 8. The visually impaired community is represented-Mr. rungta, Ms. Anuradha
> Dalmia, S. R. Mittal and I
> 9. I will defend these guidelines that is no restriction on scribes even
> though NIVH has taken a different stand.
> 10. If we need to compromise and give a little then:
> a. Definitely no close or blood relative and spouse should be allowed as
> scribe.
> B. What do you all think about the one batch lower than the exam in
> question. This was in the 2006 Bombay High Court guidelines. If you all
> could respond to this I will be grateful.
> Thanks
> Kanchan
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf
> Of Mohib Anwar Rafay
> Sent: 14 December 2017 17:53
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> The court doesn't take notice of the incidents those occur because of bad
> scribe or completely worthless scribes provided by exam centres, and also
> court doesn't deliberate upon outlandish scribe guidelines set by public
> authorities like so called public service commissions of the states! Yes,
> court quickly jumps upon setting up the committee for looking the
> possibility for changing such revolutionary scribe guidelines. I am totally
> in agreement with what has been said by Avinash, the burdon of strict
> invigilation should  be on the exam conducting authority, or provide
> accessible examination environment by providing computer and screenreaders.
>
> On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Avinash
> > Agree with you completely.
> > However someone has gone to the Bombay High Court and asked for ban of
> > private scribes. Luckily court has not agreed but has put the onus on
> > the Expert Committeee which is meeting tomorrow.
> > Will try and send you comments of NIVH to understand how we are going
> > to fall.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> > Behalf Of avinash shahi
> > Sent: 14 December 2017 16:43
> > To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
> > concerning the disabled.
> > Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
> >
> > No limitations should be imposed on scribes. The only remedy to check
> > the mal-practices is strict vigilance. Just think how non-scribe user
> > examinees are not allowed to cheat cause the strict enforcement
> > mechanisms. the limitation such as Educational qualification is an
> > absurd and the government had rightly done away with in the past.
> > Until we've requisite modification in the exam patern for majority of
> > jobs and computers are not equipped with screen reading softwares at
> > the exam venue, the candidates should not be burdened with unnecessary
> > limitations/restrictions. You please lobby for reforms in the patern
> > of exams rather than putting archaic restrictions which had ruined
> > many brilliant candidates' future due to discriminatory writer rules.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Referring to OM of 26th Feb 2013
> >>
> >> What limitations can we allow on scribes
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This is critical because tomorrow there is a meeting.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Someone has gone to the Bombay High Court and asked t

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Dinesh and Amit 
Are we looking at video recording 
a. instead of the written answers or 
b. video recording of the room in which the exam takes place as a method of
supervision. Please clarify. 
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Amit Jain
Sent: 14 December 2017 18:59
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

As far as my expeirnce goes, video and audio recording may not be feasable.
When I proposed the same in my institute, my idea was sut doewn based on the
following

1. The cost may be too high as each candidate will require to have a
seperate recording required both for audio and video 2. Person and scribe
would have to do the talking in descent volume so that even the audio is
recorded and one person in the institute committee went to the extent that
the person said if all answers are recorded, why we need them on paper, we
can just listen to recordings. Another challenge with recording would be
people with speech issue (in case of cerebral palsy) where they may not be
able to speak loud

People may provide counter arguments on these but just thought to share my
experience

Regards
Amit Jain

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dinesh I am not questioning you for the sake of arguing but for 
> strengthening my stand tomorrow.Is video recording feasible for exams 
> in schools colleges and competitive exams in various classrooms.
>   -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Dinesh Kaushal
> Sent: 14 December 2017 18:15
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.'
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> I guess we may not have to worry about all these conditions if video 
> recording of the session could be made mandatory. Video recording 
> should be submitted so that anytime any authority could verify if any 
> cheating happened.
> for any
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:59 PM
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.' <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
>
> See the opinion of some stake holders. I had started answering these 
> but got foxed with NIVH -our apex body.
> Now what to do friends when we have to face ourselves.
>
> 1.  SSC
> Candidate allowed to bring their own scribe can misuse this facility 
> which could adversely impact the transparency and integrity of the
examination.
> It
> also has the potential to disrupt the level playing field for other 
> candidates in this category who accept the scribe provided by the 
> Commission. i. Moreover the propensity for allegations/complaints of 
> unfair practises could also be high.
> Kp Supervision which is the responsibility of the Examining Authority
>
> 2.  CBSE
> Scribe should not have obtained qualification in same subject in which 
> the candidate is appearing for the examination and should be one class 
> lower than the candidate
> 3.  National Trust
> Scribe/reader/lab Assistant should be qualified according to the need 
> of the examination and should be conversant with the language of the 
> examination.
> He should not be overqualified as he may unduly assist the PwD/candidate.
> KP Ok
> 4.   IPH
> Whenever possible the PwD should have the same scribe for written 
> assessments as they had for other classroom tests. In all cases, the 
> scribe must have an understating of how to record responses using 
> procedures described and familiar with the test including knowledge of 
> vocabulary used in the test.
> Scribe should not be in blood relation with the Pwds KP cannot have 
> the same scribe Scribe should not be in blood relation to the 
> candidate Kp OK NIVH NIHH left open to the examining bodies In case of 
> graduate level examination the scribe can be a graduate from a 
> different stream In case of Master Level Examination the scribe cab be 
> from a different
> discipline than that of the candidate. A   graduate level  scribe from the
> same discipline can be allowed for aMaster level examination in such a 
> case the percentage of marks of graduate level scribe should be more 
> than 60% For entrance and school tests involving basic qualification 
> of candidate upto 12th std the qualification of the scribe should be 
> one step lower than that of the candidate. For example 12th class 
> candidate may be all

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Amit Jain]

As far as my expeirnce goes, video and audio recording may not be feasable.
When I proposed the same in my institute, my idea was sut doewn based on
the following

1. The cost may be too high as each candidate will require to have a
seperate recording required both for audio and video
2. Person and scribe would have to do the talking in descent volume so that
even the audio is recorded and one person in the institute committee went
to the extent that the person said if all answers are recorded, why we need
them on paper, we can just listen to recordings. Another challenge with
recording would be people with speech issue (in case of cerebral palsy)
where they may not be able to speak loud

People may provide counter arguments on these but just thought to share my
experience

Regards
Amit Jain

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dinesh I am not questioning you for the sake of arguing but for
> strengthening my stand tomorrow.Is video recording feasible for exams in
> schools colleges and competitive exams in various classrooms.
>   -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf
> Of Dinesh Kaushal
> Sent: 14 December 2017 18:15
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.'
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> I guess we may not have to worry about all these conditions if video
> recording of the session could be made mandatory. Video recording should be
> submitted so that anytime any authority could verify if any cheating
> happened.
> for any
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf
> Of Kanchan Pamnani
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:59 PM
> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.' <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
>
> See the opinion of some stake holders. I had started answering these but
> got
> foxed with NIVH -our apex body.
> Now what to do friends when we have to face ourselves.
>
> 1.  SSC
> Candidate allowed to bring their own scribe can misuse this facility which
> could adversely impact the transparency and integrity of the examination.
> It
> also has the potential to disrupt the level playing field for other
> candidates in this category who accept the scribe provided by the
> Commission. i. Moreover the propensity for allegations/complaints of unfair
> practises could also be high.
> Kp Supervision which is the responsibility of the Examining Authority
>
> 2.  CBSE
> Scribe should not have obtained qualification in same subject in which the
> candidate is appearing for the examination and should be one class lower
> than the candidate
> 3.  National Trust
> Scribe/reader/lab Assistant should be qualified according to the need of
> the
> examination and should be conversant with the language of the examination.
> He should not be overqualified as he may unduly assist the PwD/candidate.
> KP Ok
> 4.   IPH
> Whenever possible the PwD should have the same scribe for written
> assessments as they had for other classroom tests. In all cases, the scribe
> must have an understating of how to record responses using procedures
> described and familiar with the test including knowledge of vocabulary used
> in the test.
> Scribe should not be in blood relation with the Pwds KP cannot have the
> same
> scribe Scribe should not be in blood relation to the candidate Kp OK NIVH
> NIHH left open to the examining bodies In case of graduate level
> examination
> the scribe can be a graduate from a different stream In case of Master
> Level
> Examination the scribe cab be from a different
> discipline than that of the candidate. A   graduate level  scribe from the
> same discipline can be allowed for aMaster level examination in such a case
> the percentage of marks of graduate level scribe should be more than 60%
> For
> entrance and school tests involving basic qualification of candidate upto
> 12th std the qualification of the scribe should be one step lower than that
> of the candidate. For example 12th class candidate may be allowed an 11th
> class with not more than 70% marks. In case the candidate chooses a scribe
> 10th class pass then there should be no restriction on percentage of marks.
>
> CCPD
> The Para IV provides option to the candidate for opting their own scribe or
> request the examination body for the same. Both the option are relevant.
> However keeping in view the gravity of the examination candidate's own
> scribe should not be his/her close relative such as parents si

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Lets get the facts straight.
1. These guidelines are wonderful. 
2. There has been a lot of misuse by many candidates.  
3. Many of the candidates have complained to the Authorities. 
4. We as the sector should have complained about it and disciplined our
juniors I have heard private grumblings from many but no one has taken it
up legally. 
5. There has been only one complaint regarding a bad scribe given by the
Authorities or atleast that is what I have been informed in one of the
meetings.  
6. The Expert committee was set up by the Ministry and not by Court. 
7. It was set up on the request of UPSC and they had facts and figures to
back them. 
8. The visually impaired community is represented-Mr. rungta, Ms. Anuradha
Dalmia, S. R. Mittal and I 
8. I will defend these guidelines even  
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
Behalf Of Mohib Anwar Rafay
Sent: 14 December 2017 17:53
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

The court doesn't take notice of the incidents those occur because of bad
scribe or completely worthless scribes provided by exam centres, and also
court doesn't deliberate upon outlandish scribe guidelines set by public
authorities like so called public service commissions of the states! Yes,
court quickly jumps upon setting up the committee for looking the
possibility for changing such revolutionary scribe guidelines. I am
totally in agreement with what has been said by Avinash, the burdon of
strict invigilation should  be on the exam conducting authority, or
provide accessible examination environment by providing computer and
screenreaders.

On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Avinash
> Agree with you completely.
> However someone has gone to the Bombay High Court and asked for ban of 
> private scribes. Luckily court has not agreed but has put the onus on 
> the Expert Committeee which is meeting tomorrow.
> Will try and send you comments of NIVH to understand how we are going 
> to fall.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of avinash shahi
> Sent: 14 December 2017 16:43
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent
>
> No limitations should be imposed on scribes. The only remedy to check 
> the mal-practices is strict vigilance. Just think how non-scribe user 
> examinees are not allowed to cheat cause the strict enforcement 
> mechanisms. the limitation such as Educational qualification is an 
> absurd and the government had rightly done away with in the past.
> Until we've requisite modification in the exam patern for majority of 
> jobs and computers are not equipped with screen reading softwares at 
> the exam venue, the candidates should not be burdened with unnecessary 
> limitations/restrictions. You please lobby for reforms in the patern 
> of exams rather than putting archaic restrictions which had ruined 
> many brilliant candidates' future due to discriminatory writer rules.
>
>
>
> On 12/14/17, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Referring to OM of 26th Feb 2013
>>
>> What limitations can we allow on scribes
>>
>>
>>
>> This is critical because tomorrow there is a meeting.
>>
>>
>>
>> Someone has gone to the Bombay High Court and asked that private 
>> scribes be banned. Luckily the court has not agreed with this decision.
>>
>> However we will have to agree to some restrictions.
>>
>> The malpractises and complaints about malpractises is going out of
hand.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please help!
>>
>> At present there is no limitation and there is wide spread  misuse by 
>> our community
>>
>>
>>
>> K
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>> The list has now migrated to www.accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>>
>> You should now post to the id: a...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>
>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, 
>> please visit the list home page at 
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.or
>> g
>> .in
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the ma

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Dinesh I am not questioning you for the sake of arguing but for
strengthening my stand tomorrow.Is video recording feasible for exams in
schools colleges and competitive exams in various classrooms. 
  -Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Dinesh Kaushal
Sent: 14 December 2017 18:15
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.'
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent

I guess we may not have to worry about all these conditions if video
recording of the session could be made mandatory. Video recording should be
submitted so that anytime any authority could verify if any cheating
happened.
for any 



-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Kanchan Pamnani
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:59 PM
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.' <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines urgent


See the opinion of some stake holders. I had started answering these but got
foxed with NIVH -our apex body. 
Now what to do friends when we have to face ourselves. 

1.  SSC
Candidate allowed to bring their own scribe can misuse this facility which
could adversely impact the transparency and integrity of the examination. It
also has the potential to disrupt the level playing field for other
candidates in this category who accept the scribe provided by the
Commission. i. Moreover the propensity for allegations/complaints of unfair
practises could also be high. 
Kp Supervision which is the responsibility of the Examining Authority

2.  CBSE
Scribe should not have obtained qualification in same subject in which the
candidate is appearing for the examination and should be one class lower
than the candidate 
3.  National Trust 
Scribe/reader/lab Assistant should be qualified according to the need of the
examination and should be conversant with the language of the examination.
He should not be overqualified as he may unduly assist the PwD/candidate.
KP Ok   
4.   IPH 
Whenever possible the PwD should have the same scribe for written
assessments as they had for other classroom tests. In all cases, the scribe
must have an understating of how to record responses using procedures
described and familiar with the test including knowledge of vocabulary used
in the test.
Scribe should not be in blood relation with the Pwds KP cannot have the same
scribe Scribe should not be in blood relation to the candidate Kp OK NIVH
NIHH left open to the examining bodies In case of graduate level examination
the scribe can be a graduate from a different stream In case of Master Level
Examination the scribe cab be from a different
discipline than that of the candidate. A   graduate level  scribe from the
same discipline can be allowed for aMaster level examination in such a case
the percentage of marks of graduate level scribe should be more than 60% For
entrance and school tests involving basic qualification of candidate upto
12th std the qualification of the scribe should be one step lower than that
of the candidate. For example 12th class candidate may be allowed an 11th
class with not more than 70% marks. In case the candidate chooses a scribe
10th class pass then there should be no restriction on percentage of marks.

CCPD
The Para IV provides option to the candidate for opting their own scribe or
request the examination body for the same. Both the option are relevant.
However keeping in view the gravity of the examination candidate's own
scribe should not be his/her close relative such as parents siblings etc The
Qualification of the scribe mustbe lower than the candidate however scribe
frim the same subject area may be allowed provided having lower
qualification Guidelines should clearly mention that parents and close
relatives will not be allowed as scribe. 
  
Close relative OK

V 1. SSC
Scribe provided by the commission has adequate educational level The overall
conduct of examination is done under proper invigilation/supervision to
check malpractices 

2. CBSC
Scribe should not have obtained his/her qualification in same subject in
which the candidate is appearing for the examination and he /she should be
one class lower than the candidate

3. National Trust
Scribe/reader/lab assistant should be qualified according to the need of the
examination and should be conversant with the language of the examination he
Should not be overqualified as he may unduly assist the Pwd/candidate 

4.IPH
Scribe should ne from an academic discipline different from that post of
written exam] Invigilator should be trained and ensure that scribe remains
impartial and should not be any way influence the student performance on the
test

5.  CCPD
The education qualification must be decided as lower than that of candidate
The criteria for scribe should be separate for school/college or