Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

i am stupid.
sounds like a great demonstration.
wispapaloosa session anyone?

or would this be one of those "hall conversations" i keep hearing about? :)

  - Original Message - 
  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 12:27 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet


  I love these mikrotiks!!


  Thanks for pointing out I can just save the file and load it into wireshark, 
drag and dropped it out of winbox to my PC without having to set up a cupture 
for the stream or anything, this is like the greatest thing ever, or at least 
in the last ten minutes


  On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 3:28 PM, David  wrote:

use wire shark or SHARKNADO tool



On 10/09/2015 03:02 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  Stream it =)




  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 3:57 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

without dumping it to a server. 
the sniffer doesnt seem to have a verbose option that ive read


On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  tools > sniffer




  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 3:52 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

is there a way to get a tcpdump package onto mikrotik


On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  If you can capture the traffic,  you may find that it is 
legitimate traffic for a misconfigured domain.   I.e. some domain has their 
name servers listed including that ip.   A capture should show which domain the 
query is for. 

  I seem to recall the sniffer functionality in a mikrotik will 
either decode this,  or more likely save and/or stream it so that you can use 
Wireshark on a PC to decode. 

  On Oct 9, 2015 9:12 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
 wrote:

My policy on this interface is default deny, so it is dropping 
them, but its still going on to just the one IP out if the /28 subnet. I dont 
mind dropping them, its not noticable bandwidth, I just cant figure out why it 
is the traffic is focused there, I almost wonder if I ws to stick a DNS server 
on that IP if it would increase


On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:08 AM, David  
wrote:

  DDOSDNS bot trying to find a live host for pushing responses.

  add rule 
   input udp dest-port 53 interface=to internet drop in your 
firewall

  hate those little bastards dont have anything else to do 
except do what their programmed to do 


   




  On 10/08/2015 11:42 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

So I'm at home, turning up a subnet on a mikrotik on the 
network. Mind you this subnet hasn't been in use in 6 months. This is for some 
servers so I create a default deny policy with logging. One of the IPs is being 
hammered on port 53 udp per the packet sniffer. The IP isn't live, its just 
dropping because of the policy. Its not much bandwidth but as best I can tell 
its constantl and different IPs.


Is the packet sniffer on these things similar to tcpdump, 
the manual page didn't seem so. All I can guess is these are part of something 
I'm not related to and since this IP hasn't been live in 6 months its spoofed 
or something and these are some sort of response packet to a denial of service 
somewhere else. 
but this subnet, not this particular IP, will house a 
couple DNS servers, I just want to make sure theres no shenanigans going on 
before I turn anything up
Without being at the office to wireshark this from a 
switch, how do I get more out of this mikrotik packet sniffer

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't 
see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.







-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see 
your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.





-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.







-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.









  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself 

Re: [AFMUG] Consumer routers?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

with this capsman and those hap lites can you create a roaming wireless
bridge throughout the house with multiple APs that does true handoff?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Carlos Alcantar  wrote:

> Just to add to the calix 844E product you should also purchase the
> consumer connect product to manage the devices.  This will make life a
> breeze, there is a cost savings on your support side when your not having
> to do un necessary truck roles.
>
>
>
> Carlos Alcantar
>
> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>
> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>
> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / http://www.race.com
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Af  on behalf of Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 8, 2015 11:33 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Consumer routers?
>
> You cannot, unless you know someone who has support and is willing to
> share the firmware updates.  Calix support is not cheap either.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Sorin Esanu  wrote:
>
>> I guess so. We have a lot other stuffs from them and we already had
>> support. I do not know if you can have access to firmware without support.
>>
>>
>> On 10/8/2015 9:22 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>>
>> You have to pay Calix support though, just like with all their other
>> gear, correct?
>>
>> On Thursday, October 8, 2015, Sorin Esanu < so...@evox.ro>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> US 200-250, it depends on how much you are spending with them (it can
>>> get lower). But you are getting support (email, phone), firmware updates.
>>>
>>> On 10/8/2015 3:46 PM, Jon Langeler wrote:
>>>
 pricing on Calix?

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 7, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Sorin Esanu  wrote:
>
> Calix 844E:
> + 2.5g & 5 ghz (802.11ac)
> + customer side looks pretty intuitive
> + TR069
> + can do L2 bridge, both wired and wireless
> + support interface for access to advanced features
>
> - way too big
>

>>>
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe

[Tim Reichhart]

Ok what can I use to attach the unstrut?


-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 2015/10/12 17:29:34

Unistrut

-Original Message- 
From: Tim Reichhart
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe

What's the best away to mount an 2 1/2 in emt 10ft pipe to concrete grain 
silo?

Tim

Re: [AFMUG] Consumer routers?

[Adam Moffett]

I misunderstood.  Good question.

On 10/12/2015 12:30 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
Im not talking about as a repeater, im talking about wired APs with 
handoff across a universal ESSID for roaming. All ive read so far with 
the mikrotik is an ACL to dump clients at a low signal so theyll 
migrate, but that doesnt work at the other end of the house, just 
disconnects them


On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 8:25 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:


Amen!!!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 12, 2015 8:16 AM, "Adam Moffett" > wrote:

Even if it does, WDS repeaters are bad news IMO.  I would
rather run a wire between the AP's.  I would even rather run
homeplug between the AP's.

On 10/12/2015 4:55 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

with this capsman and those hap lites can you create a
roaming wireless bridge throughout the house with multiple
APs that does true handoff?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Carlos Alcantar
> wrote:

Just to add to the calix 844E product you should also
purchase the consumer connect product to manage the
devices.  This will make life a breeze, there is a cost
savings on your support side when your not having to do
un necessary truck roles.



Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member

1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

Phone: +1 415 376 3314  /
car...@race.com  /
http://www.race.com






*From:* Af > on behalf of Jason McKemie
>
*Sent:* Thursday, October 8, 2015 11:33 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Consumer routers?
You cannot, unless you know someone who has support and
is willing to share the firmware updates.  Calix support
is not cheap either.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Sorin Esanu
> wrote:

I guess so. We have a lot other stuffs from them and
we already had support. I do not know if you can have
access to firmware without support.


On 10/8/2015 9:22 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:

You have to pay Calix support though, just like with
all their other gear, correct?

On Thursday, October 8, 2015, Sorin Esanu
> wrote:

US 200-250, it depends on how much you are
spending with them (it can get lower). But you
are getting support (email, phone), firmware
updates.

On 10/8/2015 3:46 PM, Jon Langeler wrote:

pricing on Calix?

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 7, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Sorin Esanu
>
wrote:

Calix 844E:
+ 2.5g & 5 ghz (802.11ac)
+ customer side looks pretty intuitive
+ TR069
+ can do L2 bridge, both wired and wireless
+ support interface for access to
advanced features

- way too big








-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but

you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already
failed as part of the team.





--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe

[Lewis Bergman]

I am really fond of these concrete anchors that have a lead/tin alloy shell
with a concrete nail in the center.They have a flat round head and a skinny
base. Once you pound them in you can't get them out. Very fast to install.
They are shaped kind of like a round headed Phillips screw with a nail
through the center. Damn I wish I could remember the name. Kind of like the
below but bigger and beefier.
http://www.confast.com/products/metal-hit-anchor.aspx

I always enjoy using the Ramset as well. Probably the fastest but it takes
two people on a vertical surface. One to hold and the other to set. Its the
closest you can get to being on the firing range and still working.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Tim Reichhart <
timreichh...@hometowncable.net> wrote:

> Ok what can I use to attach the unstrut?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Date: 2015/10/12 17:29:34
>
> Unistrut
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tim Reichhart
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:26 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe
>
> What's the best away to mount an 2 1/2 in emt 10ft pipe to concrete grain
> silo?
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell

Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

So this is what I'm seeing
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Length Info 1 0 97.244.127.16 x.x.x.29
DNS 80 Standard query 0x0f7f  A ipsx.www.feiwu28.com 2 0.41
97.244.127.16 x.x.x.29 DNS 80 Standard query 0x0f7f  A ipsx.www.feiwu28.com
3 0.152372 108.149.222.68 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard query 0x43de  A
wt.www.feiwu28.com 4 0.152419 108.149.222.68 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard query
0x43de  A wt.www.feiwu28.com 5 0.284983 77.1.51.122 x.x.x.29 DNS 90 Standard
query 0x7933  A mzybuvoxitajax.www.feiwu28.com 6 0.285022 77.1.51.122
x.x.x.29 DNS 90 Standard query 0x7933  A mzybuvoxitajax.www.feiwu28.com 7
0.376112 90.5.169.181 x.x.x.29 DNS 88 Standard query 0xb4a9  A
ydghgtwlydqn.www.feiwu28.com 8 0.376153 90.5.169.181 x.x.x.29 DNS 88 Standard
query 0xb4a9  A ydghgtwlydqn.www.feiwu28.com 9 0.402671 122.238.197.130
x.x.x.29 DNS 90 Standard query 0x81c5  A cnmbabadihghyn.www.feiwu28.com 10
0.402701 122.238.197.130 x.x.x.29 DNS 90 Standard query 0x81c5  A
cnmbabadihghyn.www.feiwu28.com 11 0.435507 64.25.181.145 x.x.x.29 DNS
84 Standard
query 0x90b5  A azyxqpov.www.feiwu28.com 12 0.435545 64.25.181.145 x.x.x.29
DNS 84 Standard query 0x90b5  A azyxqpov.www.feiwu28.com 13 0.479851
35.105.6.37 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0x2406  A
ujyfknkbmvazybip.www.feiwu28.com 14 0.479889 35.105.6.37 x.x.x.29 DNS
92 Standard
query 0x2406  A ujyfknkbmvazybip.www.feiwu28.com 15 0.55605 53.94.187.123
x.x.x.29 DNS 86 Standard query 0x7abb  A udubabytyp.www.feiwu28.com 16
0.556087 53.94.187.123 x.x.x.29 DNS 86 Standard query 0x7abb  A
udubabytyp.www.feiwu28.com 17 0.764436 83.102.42.152 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard
query 0x972a  A yh.www.feiwu28.com 18 0.764491 83.102.42.152 x.x.x.29
DNS 78 Standard
query 0x972a  A yh.www.feiwu28.com 19 0.794148 123.253.173.4 x.x.x.29
DNS 92 Standard
query 0x03ad  A epaxwjolchkhkzkz.www.feiwu28.com 20 0.794189 123.253.173.4
x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0x03ad  A epaxwjolchkhkzkz.www.feiwu28.com 21
0.795351 80.152.25.238 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0xed19  A
ujonopsvixozajwx.www.feiwu28.com 22 0.795382 80.152.25.238 x.x.x.29
DNS 92 Standard
query 0xed19  A ujonopsvixozajwx.www.feiwu28.com 23 0.799311 69.172.160.207
x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0xcea0  A gfurwzsvonohydun.www.feiwu28.com 24
0.799339 69.172.160.207 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0xcea0  A
gfurwzsvonohydun.www.feiwu28.com 25 0.799366 116.108.83.140 x.x.x.29
DNS 92 Standard
query 0x8b53  A utshctevwzczehyj.www.feiwu28.com 26 0.799397 116.108.83.140
x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0x8b53  A utshctevwzczehyj.www.feiwu28.com 27
1.351741 95.136.208.159 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard query 0x9ed0  A
kr.www.feiwu28.com 28 1.351793 95.136.208.159 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard
query 0x9ed0  A kr.www.feiwu28.com 29 1.351799 126.133.60.242 x.x.x.29 DNS
78 Standard query 0xf13c  A uf.www.feiwu28.com

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:26 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller  wrote:

>
>
> i am stupid.
> sounds like a great demonstration.
> wispapaloosa session anyone?
>
> or would this be one of those "hall conversations" i keep hearing about? :)
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 12:27 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet
>
> I love these mikrotiks!!
>
> Thanks for pointing out I can just save the file and load it into
> wireshark, drag and dropped it out of winbox to my PC without having to set
> up a cupture for the stream or anything, this is like the greatest thing
> ever, or at least in the last ten minutes
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 3:28 PM, David  wrote:
>
>> use wire shark or SHARKNADO tool
>>
>>
>> On 10/09/2015 03:02 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> Stream it =)
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 3:57 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> without dumping it to a server.
>>> the sniffer doesnt seem to have a verbose option that ive read
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 tools > sniffer


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 3:52 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
 thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> is there a way to get a tcpdump package onto mikrotik
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> If you can capture the traffic,  you may find that it is legitimate
>> traffic for a misconfigured domain.   I.e. some domain has their name
>> servers listed including that ip.   A capture should show which domain 
>> the
>> query is for.
>>
>> I seem to recall the sniffer functionality in a mikrotik will either
>> decode this,  or more likely 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Patrick Leary]

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:
Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Yes, one.


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 years 
right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
> wrote:
Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that logic???  
How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this country in the 
past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually it's so far beyond 
rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the debt, the credit 
ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that 
cover laws that should not have ever been written in the first place.  Or, the 
stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the population don't want 
because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs bailing out their 
favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this isn't even the tip 
of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't say Democrat or 
Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for their country or 
their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and control people!  
Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on the rudeness 
these people have done to all of us including many generations to follow us!  
And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will never have an 
opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were not in 
agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in "Certain 
Inalienable Rights" with government here only to preserve those rights, not 
impose someone else's stupidity on me.  And, that the libs want someone else to 
take care of them all of the time.  To me, that's retarded and just plain dumb. 
 Now that I look at those that have their crazy position and compare that 
position to their past posts on here, I now understand some of their past posts 
here!

I am not about to let someone shoot me during a convenience store holdup.  I 
will die with my 45 in hand before I let the bad guy take me or anyone else 
easily.  Now, to shoot someone as he is driving away with my dvd player as more 
libtardiness suggested  How dumb! To take a life because someone is a 
thief???  That's just another liberal ploy adage to try to make others believe 
that we shouldn't have those inalienable rights.  Life is precious, things, not 
so much!  But my life is more precious to me than to let someone else try to 
protect me from halfway across the county (The Police)!

So, to make my point about your comment "People assume you are out of salient 
points to make."  No, I'm just trying to use a concise word that describes all 
the stupidity that today's liberals have stooped to.  and libtard pretty much 
does that!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:

Come on now. Be civil. You only hurt your own argument when you resort to name 
calling. People assume you are out of salient points to make.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 1:09 PM Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Especially with all thee libtard views out there today!

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
> wrote:

It is also a great reminder that people in 

Re: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe

[Chuck McCown]

Unistrut

-Original Message- 
From: Tim Reichhart

Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe

What's the best away to mount an 2 1/2 in emt 10ft pipe to concrete grain 
silo?


Tim

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Rory Conaway]

Reagan was a liberal early on in life but he definitely wasn't a liberal by the 
time he ran for the Presidency and neither were his policies.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 8:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Yes, one.


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 years 
right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
> wrote:
Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that logic???  
How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this country in the 
past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually it's so far beyond 
rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the debt, the credit 
ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that 
cover laws that should not have ever been written in the first place.  Or, the 
stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the population don't want 
because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs bailing out their 
favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this isn't even the tip 
of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't say Democrat or 
Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for their country or 
their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and control people!  
Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on the rudeness 
these people have done to all of us including many generations to follow us!  
And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will never have an 
opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were not in 
agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in "Certain 
Inalienable Rights" with government here only to preserve those rights, not 
impose someone else's stupidity on me.  And, that the libs want someone else to 
take care of them all of the time.  To me, that's retarded and just plain dumb. 
 Now that I look at those that have their crazy position and compare that 
position to their past posts on here, I now understand some of their past posts 
here!

I am not about to let someone shoot me during a convenience store holdup.  I 
will die with my 45 in hand before I let the bad guy take me or anyone else 
easily.  Now, to shoot someone as he is driving away with my dvd player as more 
libtardiness suggested  How dumb! To take a life because someone is a 
thief???  That's just another liberal ploy adage to try to make others believe 
that we shouldn't have those inalienable rights.  Life is precious, things, not 
so much!  But my life is more precious to me than to let someone else try to 
protect me from halfway across the county (The Police)!

So, to make my point about your comment "People assume you are out of salient 
points to make."  No, I'm just trying to use a concise word that describes all 
the stupidity that today's liberals have stooped to.  and libtard pretty much 
does that!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:

Come on now. Be civil. You only hurt your own argument when you resort to name 
calling. People assume you are out of salient points to 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Ken Hohhof]

Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability), 
ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower was 
probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for effectively 
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, 
look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?

I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck gets to 
be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and yes it’s 
about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but the 
Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.  People still 
remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they could bring Newt Gingrich or 
Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and 
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush money.


From: Patrick Leary 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:

Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing! 

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...




  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:

Yes, one. 


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 
years right?

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:

Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that 
logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this 
country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually 
it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the 
debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the 
stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written in the 
first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the 
population don't want because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs 
bailing out their favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this 
isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't 
say Democrat or Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for 
their country or their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and 
control people!  Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on 
the rudeness these people have done to all of us including many generations to 
follow us!  And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will 
never have an opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin  
wrote:

  Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were 
not in agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in 
"Certain Inalienable Rights" with government here only to preserve those 
rights, not impose someone else's stupidity on me.  And, that the libs want 
someone else to take care of them all of the time.  To me, that's retarded and 
just plain dumb.  Now that I look at those that have their crazy position and 
compare that position to their past posts on here, I now understand some of 
their past posts here!   

  I am not about to let someone shoot me during a convenience store 
holdup.  I will die with my 45 in hand before I let the bad guy take me or 
anyone else easily.  Now, to shoot someone as he is driving away with my dvd 
player as more libtardiness suggested  How dumb! To take a life because 
someone is a thief???  That's just another liberal ploy adage to try to make 
others believe that we shouldn't have those inalienable rights.  Life is 
precious, things, not so 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Adam Moffett]

It could always be worse.


On 10/12/2015 12:16 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:


He can’t be influenced by other peoples money.  Not a bad thing.  
Again, could he be worse than what we have?


Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 9:13 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

So... you're saying we should elect Trump? He does run a large 
organization, afterall :P


On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or 
likeability), ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive 
branch.  Eisenhower was probably the last POTUS who came to the job 
with credentials for effectively running a giant organization.  Not 
saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, look at Reagan and JFK.  
But seriously, Ben Carson?


I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck 
gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, 
and yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into 
legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an 
ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, 
they could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement. 
Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the 
money after paying all that hush money.


*From:*Patrick Leary 

*Sent:*Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, 
factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan 
president today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly 
under 40 years old.


Patrick Leary

Telrad

On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin > wrote:


Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked 
tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly 
ineffective.  Ford  and Bush?? Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO. 
Reagan, a different story. He wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held 
conservatism high.  There is only one way to preside and that is to 
work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to give up his far 
right position some Nixon is the only conservative that had any 
bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say 
conservative bearing!


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:


Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin > wrote:


Yes, one.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:


You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 
50 years right?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" > wrote:


Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that 
logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to 
this country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You 
know, actually it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it 
anymore. Start with the debt, the credit ratings of the country, the 
backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that cover laws that 
should not have ever been written in the first place.  Or, the stupid 
recent healthcare law that the majority of the population don't want 
because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs bailing out 
their favorite companies after they got their kickbacks? And this 
isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity. Notice 
I didn't say Democrat or Republican? It's libtards! These folk have no 
concern for their country or their fellow man. All they want is to 
line their pockets and control people!  Call me rude if you like!  I 
haven't even cracked the door on the rudeness these people have done 
to all of us including many generations to follow us! And,  while were 
at it, how about all of those babies that will never have an 
opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin > wrote:


Haven't made my point yet Lewis. But, saw enough of those that were 
not in agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't 
believe in "Certain Inalienable Rights" with government here only to 
preserve those rights, not impose someone else's stupidity on me.  
And, that the libs want someone else to take care of them all of 

[AFMUG] OT Politicians (was...)

[Chuck McCown]

Trump’s finger on the button.  
Tells Putin “You’re Fired”...

(Not my idea of the ideal apocalypse).

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

It could always be worse.



On 10/12/2015 12:16 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:

  He can’t be influenced by other peoples money.  Not a bad thing.  Again, 
could he be worse than what we have?

   

  Rory

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:13 AM
  To: af
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

   

  So... you're saying we should elect Trump? He does run a large organization, 
afterall :P

   

  On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability), 
ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower was 
probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for effectively 
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, 
look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?

   

  I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck gets 
to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and yes it’s 
about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but the 
Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.  People still 
remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they could bring Newt Gingrich or 
Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and 
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush money.

   

   

  From: Patrick Leary 

  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

   

  Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

   

  Patrick Leary

  Telrad

  On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:

  Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, 
we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing! 

   

  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...




   

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

   

  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:

  Yes, one. 

   

   

  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 
years right?

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:

  Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that 
logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this 
country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually 
it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the 
debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the 
stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written in the 
first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the 
population don't want because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs 
bailing out their favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this 
isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't 
say Democrat or Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for 
their country or their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and 
control people!  Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on 
the rudeness these people have done to all of us including many generations to 
follow us!  And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will 
never have an opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

   

  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:

  Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were not in 
agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in "Certain 
Inalienable Rights" with government here only to preserve those rights, not 
impose someone else's stupidity on me.  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

The one in Paris? Not near the life threatening thrill. Maybe you are
talking about another one?

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Try walking to the obelisk...
> Holy crap talk about a risk.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2015 12:54 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
>
> Last time I was in Paris my wife got impatient trying to find a way over
> to the Arc de Triomphe and wanted to just run across the circle. I am all
> for risky thrill seeking but not certain death.
>
> For those that haven't been there, it is in the middle of a traffic
> circle  with 12 large roads going in and out and the road must be 40 or 50
> yards wide. Traffic whirs around that thing like a cyclotron.
>
> My wife is also 5 foot and has the legs of a wobly two year old. We did
> eventually find the underground tunnels. I told her "Look at all those
> people, there must be 200 hundred of them. I can promise you out of that
> many at least 20 would still be strewn across the pavement with parts
> missing. There has to be a tunnel around here somewhere."
>
> The two nearest were hidden by those annoying street performers. I really
> don't like those people. I did get to see a guy on a moped with a bag of
> groceries and a cigarette in his mouth cut off a huge truck that I could
> swear he cleaned of the front left bumper of as he skittered by.
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 10:53 AM Patrick Leary 
> wrote:
>
>> It’s mesmerizing to watch the scooter traffic in Rome. A bit like red
>> blood cells jostling around in the blood stream towards some destination.
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Leary, Telrad
>>
>> 727-501-3735
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2015 11:14 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>>
>>
>> I love Puerto Rico because you don’t signal on lane changes on the
>> freeways.
>>
>>
>>
>> (Worst place I ever drove was Athens, Manhattan is a country road by
>> comparison).
>>
>> *From:* Patrick Leary 
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:36 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>>
>>
>> I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege to
>> drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result, German
>> drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on the
>> right. You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or
>> even middle lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their
>> indicator. And of course, Germans respect that government has a job and is
>> not the enemy, so they don’t reject taxation for infrastructure. As a
>> result, Germany has MUCH better roads than we do. Seriously. The German
>> autobahn is twice as thick and better banked. To be fair, we have thousands
>> of miles more of Interstate, so we do have a harder job. Still. Also, you
>> can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has strict inspection rules, that
>> even include aesthetics, but the emphasis is on safe functioning.
>>
>>
>>
>> We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have much larger
>> distances and lots of backroads and farms and country roads. I think we
>> don’t need the same standard of road, but we do need roads that are
>> well-maintained, and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should
>> focus less on cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here in FL are
>> nationally famous for bullshit speed traps – e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on
>> ticketing bad drivers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the U.S. and Germany.
>> A German won’t say, “I’m driving the speed limit so screw you, go around.”
>> Germans, like other Europeans, understand they have a civic responsibility.
>> Too many Americans reject civic responsibility as being “against freedom”
>> and “un-American.” The closest parallel in the U.S. to how the Germans
>> behave is the Mormon population, which places a very high premium on civic
>> responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body politic as one
>> functioning unit. The concept of the Hive (ergo, Chuck’s Beehive).
>>
>>
>>
>> -  Patrick
>>
>>
>>
>> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>>
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:32 PM
>> *To:* af 
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>>
>>
>> What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While
>> I would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the
>> typical American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here
>> than in Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some
>> extent.
>>
>> On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:
>>
>> Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. 

Re: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Most concrete structures we are on we start with the limits from the owner.
Some dont want any penetrations whatsoever, some have certain areas you can
put in some shallow anchors and some dont care if you chisel a hole in the
roof.

On old grain silos when possible I prefer to use non penetrating mounts,
you never know where there are fractures in that old concrete

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Tim Reichhart <
timreichh...@hometowncable.net> wrote:

> Ok what can I use to attach the unstrut?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Date: 2015/10/12 17:29:34
>
> Unistrut
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tim Reichhart
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:26 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe
>
> What's the best away to mount an 2 1/2 in emt 10ft pipe to concrete grain
> silo?
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe

[Tim Reichhart]

What's the best away to mount an 2 1/2 in emt 10ft pipe to concrete grain silo?

Tim

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Mathew Howard]

Sure, Ben Carson is obviously smart and seems like a really nice guy, but I
haven't seen anything from him that makes me think he'd be good at running
a country. Just because we have/have had inept presidents doesn't mean we
should settle for another one that doesn't know what he's doing.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> Ben Carson has run hospital departments and is clearly the smartest man in
> pretty much any room he is in.  Saying he can’t run a country after our
> community organizer demonstrated his level of ineptness (he let the
> Secretary of State sell State Department influence to the tune of at least
> $2B dollars for God’s sake and a personal income of at least $230M dollars
> while in cahoots with her husband, $100M of which is still missing
> according to the Wall Street Journal), is pretty off the mark.  My dog
> could have done a better job and we wouldn’t have wasted all that money
> playing golf.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 8:55 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
>
>
> Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability),
> ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower
> was probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for
> effectively running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to
> fill the job, look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?
>
>
>
> I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck
> gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and
> yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into
> legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an
> ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they
> could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like
> Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the money after
> paying all that hush money.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Patrick Leary 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
>
>
> Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality,
> factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president
> today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.
>
>
>
> Patrick Leary
>
> Telrad
>
> On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:
>
> Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked
> tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.
> Ford  and Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different
> story. He wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.
> There is only one way to preside and that is to work  with the other side
> some.  That's when he had to give up his far right position some  Nixon is
> the only conservative that had any bearing on this country in the last 50
> years.  I should say conservative bearing!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
>
> Yes, one.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50
> years right?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:
>
> Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that
> logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this
> country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually
> it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the
> debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the
> stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written in
> the first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of
> the population don't want because we were lied to about it.  And then the
> RINOs bailing out their favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?
> And this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.
> Notice I didn't say Democrat or Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have
> no concern for their country or their fellow man.  All they want is to line
> their pockets and control people!  Call me rude if you like!  I haven't
> even cracked the door on the rudeness these people have done to all of us
> including many generations to follow us!  And,  

Re: [AFMUG] Consumer routers?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Im not talking about as a repeater, im talking about wired APs with handoff
across a universal ESSID for roaming. All ive read so far with the mikrotik
is an ACL to dump clients at a low signal so theyll migrate, but that
doesnt work at the other end of the house, just disconnects them

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 8:25 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Amen!!!
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Oct 12, 2015 8:16 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> Even if it does, WDS repeaters are bad news IMO.  I would rather run a
>> wire between the AP's.  I would even rather run homeplug between the AP's.
>>
>> On 10/12/2015 4:55 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> with this capsman and those hap lites can you create a roaming wireless
>> bridge throughout the house with multiple APs that does true handoff?
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Carlos Alcantar  wrote:
>>
>>> Just to add to the calix 844E product you should also purchase the
>>> consumer connect product to manage the devices.  This will make life a
>>> breeze, there is a cost savings on your support side when your not having
>>> to do un necessary truck roles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carlos Alcantar
>>>
>>> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>>>
>>> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>>>
>>> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 <%2B1%20415%20376%203314> / car...@race.com /
>>> http://www.race.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* Af  on behalf of Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 8, 2015 11:33 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Consumer routers?
>>>
>>> You cannot, unless you know someone who has support and is willing to
>>> share the firmware updates.  Calix support is not cheap either.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Sorin Esanu  wrote:
>>>
 I guess so. We have a lot other stuffs from them and we already had
 support. I do not know if you can have access to firmware without support.


 On 10/8/2015 9:22 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:

 You have to pay Calix support though, just like with all their other
 gear, correct?

 On Thursday, October 8, 2015, Sorin Esanu  wrote:

> US 200-250, it depends on how much you are spending with them (it can
> get lower). But you are getting support (email, phone), firmware updates.
>
> On 10/8/2015 3:46 PM, Jon Langeler wrote:
>
>> pricing on Calix?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 7, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Sorin Esanu < 
>>> so...@evox.ro> wrote:
>>>
>>> Calix 844E:
>>> + 2.5g & 5 ghz (802.11ac)
>>> + customer side looks pretty intuitive
>>> + TR069
>>> + can do L2 bridge, both wired and wireless
>>> + support interface for access to advanced features
>>>
>>> - way too big
>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Dan Petermann]

Its is the person, not the gun. 

Any number of household chemicals can be used to maim or kill. There are 
gasses, poisons and explosives that can be manufactured from legal to purchase 
chemicals.

The gun gets singled out because it it easy to conceal and has that “scary” 
factor. 

Should we outlaw baseball bats? How about knives? Maybe only "assault knives”, 
you know, those scary looking Rambo ones. 

Cars are a highly lethal weapon. I could kill more people with a car that I 
ever could hope to with an assault weapon. Football game and an monster truck 
anyone?

Any farmer has the capability to build a bomb like Timothy McVeigh, outlaw 
farmers?

Any mentally ill person (and lets face it, anyone bent on murder is mentally 
ill), will find a way. This is why I have a problem with the insanity defense. 
You are not guilty by reason of insanity, you are guilty, but insane.

Almost any object is a potential weapon. 

I live in an area where there is dangerous wildlife. Am I to be disarmed so I 
am unable to defend myself? There are grizzly bears, black bears, mountain 
lions, bob cats, wolves, & coyotes, all have been spotted fairly close to my 
house. So, because some people abuse a right, I am to give up mine?

Should we abandon the 1st amendment also because someone might yell fire in a 
crowded theater?

Lets control all speech because some people might misuse it.

Hmm, lets see, religion is a major contributor to problems of all kinds, lets 
let the state decide what religion we can be a member of. 

Other people call for the whole sale slaughter of others, so lets let the 
government decide what speech is allowable. 

I get really offended by what is written in the press so lets control that also.

Large groups of people assembled for a specific purpose frightens me so lets 
outlaw that too. 

How about the third amendment? Soldiers shouldn’t have to live in barracks, 
lets quarter them in your house.

4th? That pesky need for warrants, think of how many criminals could be put 
away if it wasn’t for the 4th amendment!

I would go on but I think you get the point. Just because someone might get 
injured, or afraid, or offended, or even have good intentions, it doesn’t give 
them a right to take away my rights. 

The right to defend one’s self is the most basic right of all.


On Oct 9, 2015, at 10:21 PM, Stefan Englhardt  wrote:

> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in US. 
> It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the statistics for 
> accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be very restrictive. 
> If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club and leave the weapon 
> there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is silly esp. with kids 
> around.
> You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I need 
> a weapon I call for police or security.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Bill Prince]

My opinion of both McCarthy and Ryan went up a couple notches when the 
first declined to run, and the second said he doesn't want the job.


The pure notion of 40 (or so individuals) dictating who leads "the 
majority" is ludicrous beyond description. Makes for great theater though.



bp


On 10/12/2015 8:54 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck 
gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, 
and yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into 
legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an 
ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, 
they could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement.  
Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the 
money after paying all that hush money.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Rory Conaway]

Bernie Sanders ☺  You are right.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

It could always be worse.

On 10/12/2015 12:16 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:
He can’t be influenced by other peoples money.  Not a bad thing.  Again, could 
he be worse than what we have?

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:13 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

So... you're saying we should elect Trump? He does run a large organization, 
afterall :P

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Ken Hohhof 
> wrote:
Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability), 
ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower was 
probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for effectively 
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, 
look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?

I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck gets to 
be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and yes it’s 
about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but the 
Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.  People still 
remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they could bring Newt Gingrich or 
Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and 
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush money.


From: Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Yes, one.


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 years 
right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
> wrote:
Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that logic???  
How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this country in the 
past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually it's so far beyond 
rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the debt, the credit 
ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that 
cover laws that should not have ever been written in the first place.  Or, the 
stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the population don't want 
because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs bailing out their 
favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this isn't even the tip 
of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't say Democrat or 
Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for their country or 
their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and control people!  
Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on the rudeness 
these people have done to all of us including many generations to follow us!  
And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will never have an 
opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were not in 
agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in "Certain 
Inalienable Rights" with government 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Patrick Leary]

After his presidency Reagan sent letters to Republican politicians urging them 
to support the assault rifle ban, which helped its passage in the early Clinton 
years.

As president, Reagan famously enabled amnesty for millions of undocumented 
immigrants.

As president, Reagan raised taxes (after he had cut them), and if course 
routinely supported raising the debt limit
Most forgotten was that Reagan was an optimist and a fast friend of Dem House 
Speaker Tip O'Neill, with whom he worked in numerous compromises.

What Reagan was not was a vicious ideologue or zealot who refused to even 
engage the opposition. Today's "Republicans" can't even be seen shaking the 
President's hand for fear the nihilists will primary them.

Patrick Leary

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 12, 2015 11:23 AM, Rory Conaway  wrote:
Reagan was a liberal early on in life but he definitely wasn’t a liberal by the 
time he ran for the Presidency and neither were his policies.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 8:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Yes, one.


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 years 
right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
> wrote:
Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that logic???  
How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this country in the 
past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually it's so far beyond 
rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the debt, the credit 
ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that 
cover laws that should not have ever been written in the first place.  Or, the 
stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the population don't want 
because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs bailing out their 
favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this isn't even the tip 
of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't say Democrat or 
Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for their country or 
their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and control people!  
Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on the rudeness 
these people have done to all of us including many generations to follow us!  
And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will never have an 
opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were not in 
agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in "Certain 
Inalienable Rights" with government here only to preserve those rights, not 
impose someone else's stupidity on me.  And, that the libs want someone else to 
take care of them all of the time.  To me, that's retarded and just plain dumb. 
 Now that I look at those that have their crazy position and compare that 
position to their past posts on here, I now understand some of their past posts 
here!

I am not about to let someone shoot me during a convenience store holdup.  I 
will die with my 45 in hand before I let the bad guy take me or anyone else 
easily.  Now, to shoot someone as he is driving away with my dvd player as more 
libtardiness suggested  How 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Rory Conaway]

Ben Carson has run hospital departments and is clearly the smartest man in 
pretty much any room he is in.  Saying he can’t run a country after our 
community organizer demonstrated his level of ineptness (he let the Secretary 
of State sell State Department influence to the tune of at least $2B dollars 
for God’s sake and a personal income of at least $230M dollars while in cahoots 
with her husband, $100M of which is still missing according to the Wall Street 
Journal), is pretty off the mark.  My dog could have done a better job and we 
wouldn’t have wasted all that money playing golf.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 8:55 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability), 
ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower was 
probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for effectively 
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, 
look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?

I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck gets to 
be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and yes it’s 
about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but the 
Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.  People still 
remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they could bring Newt Gingrich or 
Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and 
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush money.


From: Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Yes, one.


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 years 
right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
> wrote:
Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that logic???  
How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this country in the 
past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually it's so far beyond 
rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the debt, the credit 
ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that 
cover laws that should not have ever been written in the first place.  Or, the 
stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the population don't want 
because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs bailing out their 
favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this isn't even the tip 
of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't say Democrat or 
Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for their country or 
their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and control people!  
Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on the rudeness 
these people have done to all of us including many generations to follow us!  
And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will never have an 
opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were not in 
agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Rory Conaway]

Moral foundation is a funny thing.  It's probably the one thing the most people 
won't compromise on.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

My opinion of both McCarthy and Ryan went up a couple notches when the first 
declined to run, and the second said he doesn't want the job.

The pure notion of 40 (or so individuals) dictating who leads "the majority" is 
ludicrous beyond description. Makes for great theater though.


bp


On 10/12/2015 8:54 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck 
> gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, 
> and yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into 
> legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an 
> ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, 
> they could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement.  
> Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the 
> money after paying all that hush money.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Mathew Howard]

So... you're saying we should elect Trump? He does run a large
organization, afterall :P

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability),
> ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower
> was probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for
> effectively running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to
> fill the job, look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?
>
> I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck
> gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and
> yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into
> legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an
> ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they
> could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like
> Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the money after
> paying all that hush money.
>
>
> *From:* Patrick Leary 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
> Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality,
> factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president
> today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.
>
> Patrick Leary
> Telrad
> On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:
> Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked
> tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.
> Ford  and Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different
> story. He wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.
> There is only one way to preside and that is to work  with the other side
> some.  That's when he had to give up his far right position some  Nixon is
> the only conservative that had any bearing on this country in the last 50
> years.  I should say conservative bearing!
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, one.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last
 50 years right?

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:

> Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that
> logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this
> country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, 
> actually
> it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the
> debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the
> stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written 
> in
> the first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that the majority 
> of
> the population don't want because we were lied to about it.  And then the
> RINOs bailing out their favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?
> And this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.
> Notice I didn't say Democrat or Republican?  It's libtards! These folk 
> have
> no concern for their country or their fellow man.  All they want is to 
> line
> their pockets and control people!  Call me rude if you like!  I haven't
> even cracked the door on the rudeness these people have done to all of us
> including many generations to follow us!  And,  while were at it, how 
> about
> all of those babies that will never have an opportunity to join us?  What 
> a
> sickening shame!  No, Travesty!
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
>
>> Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were
>> not in agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe 
>> in
>> "Certain Inalienable Rights" with government here only to preserve those
>> rights, not impose someone else's stupidity on me.  And, that the libs 
>> want
>> someone else to take care of them all of the time.  To me, that's 
>> retarded
>> and just plain dumb.  Now that I look at those that have their crazy
>> position and compare that position to their past posts on here, I now
>> understand some of their past posts here!
>>
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Rory Conaway]

He can’t be influenced by other peoples money.  Not a bad thing.  Again, could 
he be worse than what we have?

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:13 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

So... you're saying we should elect Trump? He does run a large organization, 
afterall :P

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Ken Hohhof 
> wrote:
Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability), 
ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower was 
probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for effectively 
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, 
look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?

I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck gets to 
be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and yes it’s 
about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but the 
Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.  People still 
remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they could bring Newt Gingrich or 
Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and 
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush money.


From: Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Yes, one.


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 years 
right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
> wrote:
Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that logic???  
How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this country in the 
past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually it's so far beyond 
rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the debt, the credit 
ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that 
cover laws that should not have ever been written in the first place.  Or, the 
stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the population don't want 
because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs bailing out their 
favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this isn't even the tip 
of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't say Democrat or 
Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for their country or 
their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and control people!  
Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on the rudeness 
these people have done to all of us including many generations to follow us!  
And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will never have an 
opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were not in 
agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in "Certain 
Inalienable Rights" with government here only to preserve those rights, not 
impose someone else's stupidity on me.  And, that the libs want someone else to 
take care of them all of the time.  To me, that's retarded and just plain dumb. 
 Now that I look at those that have their crazy position and 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Mathew Howard]

I'm not entirely sure that would be worse... at least he's honest about
what he is :P

But yes, no matter how bad anything is, it can always be worse.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:19 AM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> Bernie Sanders J  You are right.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 9:18 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
>
>
> It could always be worse.
>
> On 10/12/2015 12:16 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>
> He can’t be influenced by other peoples money.  Not a bad thing.  Again,
> could he be worse than what we have?
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 9:13 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
>
>
> So... you're saying we should elect Trump? He does run a large
> organization, afterall :P
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability),
> ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower
> was probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for
> effectively running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to
> fill the job, look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?
>
>
>
> I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck
> gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and
> yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into
> legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an
> ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they
> could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like
> Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the money after
> paying all that hush money.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Patrick Leary 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
>
>
> Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality,
> factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president
> today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.
>
>
>
> Patrick Leary
>
> Telrad
>
> On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:
>
> Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked
> tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.
> Ford  and Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different
> story. He wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.
> There is only one way to preside and that is to work  with the other side
> some.  That's when he had to give up his far right position some  Nixon is
> the only conservative that had any bearing on this country in the last 50
> years.  I should say conservative bearing!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
>
> Yes, one.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50
> years right?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:
>
> Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that
> logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this
> country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually
> it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the
> debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the
> stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written in
> the first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of
> the population don't want because we were lied to about it.  And then the
> RINOs bailing out their favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?
> And this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.
> Notice I didn't say Democrat or Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have
> no concern for their country or their fellow man.  All they want is to line
> their pockets and control people!  Call me rude if you like!  I haven't
> even cracked the door on the rudeness these people have done to all of us
> including many generations to follow us!  And,  while were at it, how about
> all of those babies that will never have an opportunity to join us?  What a
> sickening shame!  No, 

Re: [AFMUG] Consumer routers?

[Adam Moffett]

Even if it does, WDS repeaters are bad news IMO.  I would rather run a 
wire between the AP's.  I would even rather run homeplug between the AP's.


On 10/12/2015 4:55 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
with this capsman and those hap lites can you create a roaming 
wireless bridge throughout the house with multiple APs that does true 
handoff?


On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Carlos Alcantar > wrote:


Just to add to the calix 844E product you should also purchase the
consumer connect product to manage the devices.  This will make
life a breeze, there is a cost savings on your support side when
your not having to do un necessary truck roles.



Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member

1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

Phone: +1 415 376 3314  /
car...@race.com  / http://www.race.com






*From:* Af > on
behalf of Jason McKemie >
*Sent:* Thursday, October 8, 2015 11:33 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Consumer routers?
You cannot, unless you know someone who has support and is willing
to share the firmware updates.  Calix support is not cheap either.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Sorin Esanu > wrote:

I guess so. We have a lot other stuffs from them and we
already had support. I do not know if you can have access to
firmware without support.


On 10/8/2015 9:22 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:

You have to pay Calix support though, just like with all
their other gear, correct?

On Thursday, October 8, 2015, Sorin Esanu > wrote:

US 200-250, it depends on how much you are spending with
them (it can get lower). But you are getting support
(email, phone), firmware updates.

On 10/8/2015 3:46 PM, Jon Langeler wrote:

pricing on Calix?

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 7, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Sorin Esanu
> wrote:

Calix 844E:
+ 2.5g & 5 ghz (802.11ac)
+ customer side looks pretty intuitive
+ TR069
+ can do L2 bridge, both wired and wireless
+ support interface for access to advanced features

- way too big








--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] anybody know this IP

[Ken Hohhof]

I think you answered your own question, it’s likely a game download.  If you 
Google that game, the download is huge.

I have seen LLNW use aggressive TCP acceleration.

How much traffic are you seeing (compared to the customer’s rate limit)?  1X?  
2X?  More?  If it’s just maxing out the customer’s connection, that’s not 
exactly front page news.  If it’s 2X, I’ve seen LLNW do that.


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 12:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] anybody know this IP


68.142.74.85


registered to limelight networks CDN?


there is a heavy TCP stream on a customer connection

Im no master of deciphering packet traffic but i find

GET 
/14/901df6b0-4b1c-41c2-abe1-6081a247bed8/b1ae6a9a-cde1-45d0-9c3f-dcc47593a1a9/4.1.0.1.e6d23b6c-b7c8-4fb8-aebd-df9736d7e943/The-Witcher-3-Wild-Hunt-ENBPLATAMFRPO_4.1.0.1_x64__p6y4d66jq0r3e
 HTTP/1.1
Connection: Keep-Alive
Range: bytes=28097617920-28098314239
Host: ic.d049e6ec.107de7.1.msxbassets.loris.llnwd.net


Im guessing this is either a download of this game, or its the actual gameplay, 
not sure how to tell


Im seeing a ton of [TCP RETRANSMISSION] [TCP SEGMENT OF A REASSEMPLED PDU]

Like every other packet in the stream.

Is this normal if this is online gameplay? I would think this would have an 
impact if its reassembling packetflow.



-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] how far can we go in capturing and investigating data?

[Ken Hohhof]

IANAL, but I would think you could capture and investigate any traffic you want 
on your network.  The problem would be what you do with that data, for example 
disclosing to third parties, disclosing to law enforcement without a valid 
warrant or court order pertaining to that customer, or using it to block or 
throttle legal content without a permitted network management purpose.

Oddly, if you capture kiddie porn, you may be required by state law to disclose 
that to law enforcement.

Once you have accomplished your troubleshooting, I would probably delete any 
records of the captured data.  If you don’t have it, you can’t disclose it.


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 12:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] how far can we go in capturing and investigating data?

what is the legality of us capturing and reviewing data for troubleshooting. Is 
there a clearly defined line? I assume we cant capture encrypted traffic and 
try to decrypt it and get to the underlying data.  
Is there a set of words that we can put in our TOS that give us a pass?

This is a concern thats come up because im troubleshooting an issue on a 
customer who is a prick. The type that would say "how did you find out whats 
happenning" And then trying to sue us when we tell them we captured and 
reviewed traffic. Im tempted to have the boss get a release drawn up for this 
douchebag to sign.

Is this something we are covered over since it falls under the blanket of 
troubleshooting? Are we technically required to notify a customer if we are 
capturing their data?


-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] how far can we go in capturing and investigating data?

[Chuck McCown]

You can go as far as you need to.  Telephone company's have always had the 
right to listen to and record telephone calls at will.  Now that the FCC has 
declared all the ISPs virtual public utilities you should be covered under the 
old rules.  I think you were good without.  Monitoring for network 
troubleshooting has always been acceptable.  

Here is what AT collects in California
http://www.att.com/Common/about_us/privacy_policy/print_policy.html
What information do we collect?


We may collect different types of information based on your use of our products 
and services and on our business relationship with you.



  a.. Account Information:

a.. Contact Information that allows us to communicate with you. We get this 
information when you order or register for our services. This would include 
information like your name, address, telephone number and e-mail address.

b.. Billing Information related to your financial relationship with us, 
such as the services we provide to you, the telephone numbers you call and 
text, your payment history, your credit history, your credit card numbers, 
Social Security number, security codes and your service history.

  b.. Technical & Usage Information related to the services we provide to you, 
including information about how you use our networks, services, products or 
websites. Some examples include:

a.. Equipment Information that identifies the equipment on our networks, 
such as equipment type, device IDs, device status, serial numbers, settings, 
configuration and software.

b.. Network Performance & Usage Information about the operation of the 
equipment, services and applications you use on our networks. Examples of this 
might include wireless device location, the number of text messages sent and 
received, voice minutes used, calling and texting records, bandwidth used, and 
resources you use when uploading, downloading or streaming data to and from the 
Internet. We also collect information like transmission rates and delays, data 
associated with remote monitoring services and security characteristics.

  a.. Some Network Performance & Usage Information and some Billing 
Information is Customer Proprietary Network Information or "CPNI." Unique rules 
apply to CPNI. Go here to learn more about what it is, how we use it and the 
choice you can make about that use.

c.. Web Browsing & Mobile Application Information such as IP addresses, 
URLs, data transmission rates and delays. We also learn about the pages you 
visit, the time you spend, the links or advertisements you see and follow, the 
search terms you enter, how often you open an application, how long you spend 
using the app and other similar information.

  c.. Location Information includes your ZIP-code and street address, as well 
as the whereabouts of your wireless device. Location information is generated 
when your device communicates with cell towers, Wi-Fi routers or access points 
and/or with other technologies, including the satellites that comprise the 
Global Positioning System.

  d.. TV Viewing Information is generated by your use of any of our satellite 
or IPTV (U-verse) services. These services may include video on demand, pay per 
view, DVR services, applications to watch your TV on the go for tablet or 
smartphone (such as the TV Everywhere app) and similar AT services and 
products, including the programs and channels you and those in your household 
watch and record, the times you watch and how long you watch. It also includes 
information like the interactive channels and games provided by U-verse or 
DirectTV. We also collect information related to your use and interaction with 
the equipment in your home, including the TV receivers, set top boxes, remotes 
and other devices you may use to access our services.


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 11:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] how far can we go in capturing and investigating data?

what is the legality of us capturing and reviewing data for troubleshooting. Is 
there a clearly defined line? I assume we cant capture encrypted traffic and 
try to decrypt it and get to the underlying data.  
Is there a set of words that we can put in our TOS that give us a pass?

This is a concern thats come up because im troubleshooting an issue on a 
customer who is a prick. The type that would say "how did you find out whats 
happenning" And then trying to sue us when we tell them we captured and 
reviewed traffic. Im tempted to have the boss get a release drawn up for this 
douchebag to sign.

Is this something we are covered over since it falls under the blanket of 
troubleshooting? Are we technically required to notify a customer if we are 
capturing their data?


-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] anybody know this IP

[Chuck Hogg]

That's a game update like Ken says, by the way that update is 17GB.

Regards,
Chuck

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I think you answered your own question, it’s likely a game download.  If
> you Google that game, the download is huge.
>
> I have seen LLNW use aggressive TCP acceleration.
>
> How much traffic are you seeing (compared to the customer’s rate limit)?
> 1X?  2X?  More?  If it’s just maxing out the customer’s connection, that’s
> not exactly front page news.  If it’s 2X, I’ve seen LLNW do that.
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 12:24 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] anybody know this IP
>
>
> 68.142.74.85
>
> registered to limelight networks CDN?
>
>
> there is a heavy TCP stream on a customer connection
>
> Im no master of deciphering packet traffic but i find
>
> GET
> /14/901df6b0-4b1c-41c2-abe1-6081a247bed8/b1ae6a9a-cde1-45d0-9c3f-dcc47593a1a9/4.1.0.1.e6d23b6c-b7c8-4fb8-aebd-df9736d7e943/The-Witcher-3-Wild-Hunt-ENBPLATAMFRPO_4.1.0.1_x64__p6y4d66jq0r3e
> HTTP/1.1
> Connection: Keep-Alive
> Range: bytes=28097617920-28098314239
> Host: ic.d049e6ec.107de7.1.msxbassets.loris.llnwd.net
>
>
> Im guessing this is either a download of this game, or its the actual
> gameplay, not sure how to tell
>
>
> Im seeing a ton of [TCP RETRANSMISSION] [TCP SEGMENT OF A REASSEMPLED PDU]
>
> Like every other packet in the stream.
>
> Is this normal if this is online gameplay? I would think this would have
> an impact if its reassembling packetflow.
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Consumer routers?

[Josh Luthman]

Amen!!!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 12, 2015 8:16 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> Even if it does, WDS repeaters are bad news IMO.  I would rather run a
> wire between the AP's.  I would even rather run homeplug between the AP's.
>
> On 10/12/2015 4:55 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> with this capsman and those hap lites can you create a roaming wireless
> bridge throughout the house with multiple APs that does true handoff?
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Carlos Alcantar  wrote:
>
>> Just to add to the calix 844E product you should also purchase the
>> consumer connect product to manage the devices.  This will make life a
>> breeze, there is a cost savings on your support side when your not having
>> to do un necessary truck roles.
>>
>>
>>
>> Carlos Alcantar
>>
>> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>>
>> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>>
>> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 <%2B1%20415%20376%203314> / car...@race.com /
>> http://www.race.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Af  on behalf of Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 8, 2015 11:33 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Consumer routers?
>>
>> You cannot, unless you know someone who has support and is willing to
>> share the firmware updates.  Calix support is not cheap either.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Sorin Esanu  wrote:
>>
>>> I guess so. We have a lot other stuffs from them and we already had
>>> support. I do not know if you can have access to firmware without support.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/8/2015 9:22 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>>>
>>> You have to pay Calix support though, just like with all their other
>>> gear, correct?
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 8, 2015, Sorin Esanu  wrote:
>>>
 US 200-250, it depends on how much you are spending with them (it can
 get lower). But you are getting support (email, phone), firmware updates.

 On 10/8/2015 3:46 PM, Jon Langeler wrote:

> pricing on Calix?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 7, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Sorin Esanu  wrote:
>>
>> Calix 844E:
>> + 2.5g & 5 ghz (802.11ac)
>> + customer side looks pretty intuitive
>> + TR069
>> + can do L2 bridge, both wired and wireless
>> + support interface for access to advanced features
>>
>> - way too big
>>
>

>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Chuck McCown]

Your thought patterns change when you are carrying a weapon.  You may be less 
reticent to avoid a dicey situation.  You may not even be aware that your 
behavior has changed.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 7:55 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

It's concealed... Shouldn't be relevant.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 12, 2015 8:52 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists"  wrote:

  I go out of my way to avoid any potential conflict when I'm carrying.

  Jeff Broadwick 
  ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
  312-205-2519 Office
  574-220-7826 Cell
  jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

  On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:


I worry about a generation of kids raised on the Internet I encounter out 
in the real world who don’t seem to know a different set of rules apply.  I’m 
surprised more don’t get punched in the nose.  Their real nose, not an 
anonymous, virtual nose.

Speaking of which, this video of Buzz Aldrin never gets old:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptn5RE2I-k

That’s probably what my father, who fought in WWII and helped liberate some 
of the death camps, would do today if he were still alive and met one of those 
Holocaust deniers.

I also remember I think it was Mike Royko reporting that after a hockey 
game at Chicago Stadium, a fan had punched Gordie Howe in the fist with his 
face.  Google couldn’t find that for me, closest I could find was:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-05-05/news/8602010647_1_fan-bashing-young-man

And to be clear, I’m not threatening to punch anybody in the nose, that’s 
not my point.  I’m saying civility may be a thing of the past online, but it’s 
still a good idea IRL.

Those of you in areas where people routinely carry firearms, does that 
cause people to think twice before insulting other people?  Or is it like the 
gangs in Chicago and they shoot instead of punching noses?  The movie Tombstone 
was on TV yesterday, nice image of uncivil society.

Well, at least our weapon of choice when disrespected isn’t a bomb like 
some parts of the world.


From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:05 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Well, he did say "mostly polite", not completely polite...

And no, you probably shouldn't expect civility anywhere online, or not 
online, for that matter... unless you enjoy being disappointed :P


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  So Chucks says “folks are smart and mostly polite” and then you have to 
ruin it.

  I don’t understand why it takes so little provocation these days to use 
the **tard word.  In this case, just because you disagree with some folks.  As 
I’ve turned 65 recently, I’ve noticed people using that language with senior 
citizens because they (we?) don’t move fast enough or something.  Not to 
mention it’s insulting to people with mental retardation, to use that very 
outdated term.

  Should I not expect civility online anywhere?


  From: Philip Rankin 
  Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 1:09 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

  Especially with all thee libtard views out there today!

  On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:


It is also a great reminder that people in other parts of the country 
do not necessarily share your views.
Also a great reminder that the founders of this country really did know 
what they were doing.
For things to happen in this country you have to AGREE...which is 
becoming more and more difficult ;)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck McCown 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:40 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

  This has been fun reading.

  I love this list.  Folks are smart and mostly polite and post some 
pretty 
  well reasoned arguments on both sides of almost any issue.  This is 
all the 
  social media I need.

  I did want to make a comment about the Illinois FOID card.

  I was a hostage in a bank robbery back in about 1993 in Quincy 
Illinois. 
  Once it was over and I got out of the bank, I  learned that a 
co-worker had 
  suffered some kind of stress attack and was in the hospital.  That 
afternoon 
  they were out of beds in some of the areas so that took him to the 
5th 
  floor.  That is the psych floor.

  Then, it turned out, anyone that gets admitted to a psych ward in 
Illinois 
  gets reported to the FOID people.
  They revoke the FOID card.

  This guy was a big time hunter.  It just about killed him.
  He got some pretty good press and got some political help.  Hot his 
card 
  

Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet

[Mike Hammett]

I suppose it's possible that the subnet has been hijacked (intentionally or 
not) and the intended victim is on your subnet... hard to tell from the 
information given. 

http://www.bgpmon.net/ 

Check that out to watch out for route hijacks. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 8:57:19 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet 


https://www.shadowserver.org/wiki/pmwiki.php/Involve/GetReportsOnYourNetwork 
https://radar.qrator.net/ 
https://tcconsole.com/ 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp84 
http://www.bcp38.info/index.php/Main_Page 


Also, it appears that Cloudflare manages that domain. 


I'd suspect you have or had an open DNS resolver on your network or there was a 
typo somewhere. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:56:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet 



So this is what I'm seeing 
No. TimeSource  Destination ProtocolLength  Info

1   0   97.244.127.16   x.x.x.29DNS 80  
Standard query 0x0f7f A ipsx.www.feiwu28.com
2   0.4197.244.127.16   x.x.x.29DNS 80  
Standard query 0x0f7f A ipsx.www.feiwu28.com
3   0.152372108.149.222.68  x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x43de A wt.www.feiwu28.com  
4   0.152419108.149.222.68  x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x43de A wt.www.feiwu28.com  
5   0.28498377.1.51.122 x.x.x.29DNS 90  
Standard query 0x7933 A mzybuvoxitajax.www.feiwu28.com 
6   0.28502277.1.51.122 x.x.x.29DNS 90  
Standard query 0x7933 A mzybuvoxitajax.www.feiwu28.com 
7   0.37611290.5.169.181x.x.x.29DNS 88  
Standard query 0xb4a9 A ydghgtwlydqn.www.feiwu28.com 
8   0.37615390.5.169.181x.x.x.29DNS 88  
Standard query 0xb4a9 A ydghgtwlydqn.www.feiwu28.com 
9   0.402671122.238.197.130 x.x.x.29DNS 
90  Standard query 0x81c5 A cnmbabadihghyn.www.feiwu28.com 
10  0.402701122.238.197.130 x.x.x.29DNS 
90  Standard query 0x81c5 A cnmbabadihghyn.www.feiwu28.com 
11  0.43550764.25.181.145   x.x.x.29DNS 84  
Standard query 0x90b5 A azyxqpov.www.feiwu28.com 
12  0.43554564.25.181.145   x.x.x.29DNS 84  
Standard query 0x90b5 A azyxqpov.www.feiwu28.com 
13  0.47985135.105.6.37 x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x2406 A ujyfknkbmvazybip.www.feiwu28.com 
14  0.47988935.105.6.37 x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x2406 A ujyfknkbmvazybip.www.feiwu28.com 
15  0.55605 53.94.187.123   x.x.x.29DNS 86  
Standard query 0x7abb A udubabytyp.www.feiwu28.com 
16  0.55608753.94.187.123   x.x.x.29DNS 86  
Standard query 0x7abb A udubabytyp.www.feiwu28.com 
17  0.76443683.102.42.152   x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x972a A yh.www.feiwu28.com  
18  0.76449183.102.42.152   x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x972a A yh.www.feiwu28.com  
19  0.794148123.253.173.4   x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x03ad A epaxwjolchkhkzkz.www.feiwu28.com 
20  0.794189123.253.173.4   x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x03ad A epaxwjolchkhkzkz.www.feiwu28.com 
21  0.79535180.152.25.238   x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0xed19 A ujonopsvixozajwx.www.feiwu28.com 
22  0.79538280.152.25.238   x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0xed19 A ujonopsvixozajwx.www.feiwu28.com 
23  0.79931169.172.160.207  x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0xcea0 A gfurwzsvonohydun.www.feiwu28.com 
24  0.79933969.172.160.207  x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0xcea0 A gfurwzsvonohydun.www.feiwu28.com 
25  0.799366116.108.83.140  x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x8b53 A utshctevwzczehyj.www.feiwu28.com 
26  0.799397116.108.83.140  x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x8b53 A utshctevwzczehyj.www.feiwu28.com 
27  1.35174195.136.208.159  x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x9ed0 A kr.www.feiwu28.com  
28  1.351793   

Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet

[Ken Hohhof]

Is this enough traffic to raise suspicion of an actual attack?  Or just a 
constant random dribble of DNS queries?  If so, and given the queries are all 
for the same domain, maybe someone just has the authoritative nameserver or a 
delegation set wrong for that domain.  Hard to tell since it is hidden behind 
Cloudfront.

If the facts equally support a diagnosis of stupidity or malicious intent, I 
would choose stupidity.


From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet

Chinese script kiddies


bp


On 10/11/2015 11:56 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

  So this is what I'm seeing
No. Time Source Destination Protocol Length Info 
   
   
   
   
   
1 0 97.244.127.16 x.x.x.29 DNS 80 Standard query 0x0f7f  A 
ipsx.www.feiwu28.com 
   
2 0.41 97.244.127.16 x.x.x.29 DNS 80 Standard query 0x0f7f  A 
ipsx.www.feiwu28.com 
   
3 0.152372 108.149.222.68 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard query 0x43de  A 
wt.www.feiwu28.com 
   
4 0.152419 108.149.222.68 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard query 0x43de  A 
wt.www.feiwu28.com 
   
5 0.284983 77.1.51.122 x.x.x.29 DNS 90 Standard query 0x7933  A 
mzybuvoxitajax.www.feiwu28.com 
6 0.285022 77.1.51.122 x.x.x.29 DNS 90 Standard query 0x7933  A 
mzybuvoxitajax.www.feiwu28.com 
7 0.376112 90.5.169.181 x.x.x.29 DNS 88 Standard query 0xb4a9  A 
ydghgtwlydqn.www.feiwu28.com 
8 0.376153 90.5.169.181 x.x.x.29 DNS 88 Standard query 0xb4a9  A 
ydghgtwlydqn.www.feiwu28.com 
9 0.402671 122.238.197.130 x.x.x.29 DNS 90 Standard query 0x81c5  A 
cnmbabadihghyn.www.feiwu28.com 
10 0.402701 122.238.197.130 x.x.x.29 DNS 90 Standard query 0x81c5  A 
cnmbabadihghyn.www.feiwu28.com 
11 0.435507 64.25.181.145 x.x.x.29 DNS 84 Standard query 0x90b5  A 
azyxqpov.www.feiwu28.com 
12 0.435545 64.25.181.145 x.x.x.29 DNS 84 Standard query 0x90b5  A 
azyxqpov.www.feiwu28.com 
13 0.479851 35.105.6.37 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0x2406  A 
ujyfknkbmvazybip.www.feiwu28.com 
14 0.479889 35.105.6.37 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0x2406  A 
ujyfknkbmvazybip.www.feiwu28.com 
15 0.55605 53.94.187.123 x.x.x.29 DNS 86 Standard query 0x7abb  A 
udubabytyp.www.feiwu28.com 
16 0.556087 53.94.187.123 x.x.x.29 DNS 86 Standard query 0x7abb  A 
udubabytyp.www.feiwu28.com 
17 0.764436 83.102.42.152 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard query 0x972a  A 
yh.www.feiwu28.com 
   
18 0.764491 83.102.42.152 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard query 0x972a  A 
yh.www.feiwu28.com 
   
19 0.794148 123.253.173.4 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0x03ad  A 
epaxwjolchkhkzkz.www.feiwu28.com 
20 0.794189 123.253.173.4 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0x03ad  A 
epaxwjolchkhkzkz.www.feiwu28.com 
21 0.795351 80.152.25.238 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0xed19  A 
ujonopsvixozajwx.www.feiwu28.com 
22 0.795382 80.152.25.238 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0xed19  A 
ujonopsvixozajwx.www.feiwu28.com 
23 0.799311 69.172.160.207 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0xcea0  A 
gfurwzsvonohydun.www.feiwu28.com 
24 0.799339 69.172.160.207 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0xcea0  A 
gfurwzsvonohydun.www.feiwu28.com 
25 0.799366 116.108.83.140 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0x8b53  A 
utshctevwzczehyj.www.feiwu28.com 
26 0.799397 116.108.83.140 x.x.x.29 DNS 92 Standard query 0x8b53  A 
utshctevwzczehyj.www.feiwu28.com 
27 1.351741 95.136.208.159 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard query 0x9ed0  A 
kr.www.feiwu28.com 
   
28 1.351793 95.136.208.159 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard query 0x9ed0  A 
kr.www.feiwu28.com 
   
29 1.351799 126.133.60.242 x.x.x.29 DNS 78 Standard query 0xf13c  A 
uf.www.feiwu28.com 
   


  On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:26 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:



i am stupid.
sounds like a great demonstration.
wispapaloosa session anyone?

or would this be one of those "hall conversations" i keep hearing about? :)

  - Original Message - 
  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 12:27 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet

  I love these mikrotiks!! 

  Thanks for pointing out I can just save the file and load it into 
wireshark, drag and dropped it out of winbox to my PC without having to set up 
a cupture for the stream or anything, this is like the greatest thing ever, or 
at least in the last ten minutes

  On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 3:28 PM, David  wrote:

use wire shark or SHARKNADO tool



On 10/09/2015 03:02 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  Stream it =)



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 

[AFMUG] OT: new snack for Chuck

[Ken Hohhof]

Saw on the TV this morning that Hormel now sells dried Spam snacks.

http://www.foodbeast.com/news/spam-bites/

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Josh Luthman]

It's concealed... Shouldn't be relevant.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 12, 2015 8:52 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists"  wrote:

> I go out of my way to avoid any potential conflict when I'm carrying.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>
> On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> I worry about a generation of kids raised on the Internet I encounter out
> in the real world who don’t seem to know a different set of rules apply.
> I’m surprised more don’t get punched in the nose.  Their real nose, not an
> anonymous, virtual nose.
>
> Speaking of which, this video of Buzz Aldrin never gets old:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptn5RE2I-k
>
> That’s probably what my father, who fought in WWII and helped liberate
> some of the death camps, would do today if he were still alive and met one
> of those Holocaust deniers.
>
> I also remember I think it was Mike Royko reporting that after a hockey
> game at Chicago Stadium, a fan had punched Gordie Howe in the fist with his
> face.  Google couldn’t find that for me, closest I could find was:
>
> http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-05-05/news/8602010647_1_fan-bashing-young-man
>
> And to be clear, I’m not threatening to punch anybody in the nose, that’s
> not my point.  I’m saying civility may be a thing of the past online, but
> it’s still a good idea IRL.
>
> Those of you in areas where people routinely carry firearms, does that
> cause people to think twice before insulting other people?  Or is it like
> the gangs in Chicago and they shoot instead of punching noses?  The movie
> Tombstone was on TV yesterday, nice image of uncivil society.
>
> Well, at least our weapon of choice when disrespected isn’t a bomb like
> some parts of the world.
>
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard 
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:05 PM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
> Well, he did say "mostly polite", not completely polite...
>
> And no, you probably shouldn't expect civility anywhere online, or not
> online, for that matter... unless you enjoy being disappointed :P
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> So Chucks says “folks are smart and mostly polite” and then you have to
>> ruin it.
>>
>> I don’t understand why it takes so little provocation these days to use
>> the **tard word.  In this case, just because you disagree with some folks.
>> As I’ve turned 65 recently, I’ve noticed people using that language with
>> senior citizens because they (we?) don’t move fast enough or something.
>> Not to mention it’s insulting to people with mental retardation, to use
>> that very outdated term.
>>
>> Should I not expect civility online anywhere?
>>
>>
>> *From:* Philip Rankin 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2015 1:09 PM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>
>> Especially with all thee libtard views out there today!
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It is also a great reminder that people in other parts of the country do
>>> not necessarily share your views.
>>> Also a great reminder that the founders of this country really did know
>>> what they were doing.
>>> For things to happen in this country you have to AGREE...which is
>>> becoming more and more difficult ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Chuck McCown 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:40 AM
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>>
>>> This has been fun reading.
>>>
>>> I love this list.  Folks are smart and mostly polite and post some
>>> pretty
>>> well reasoned arguments on both sides of almost any issue.  This is all
>>> the
>>> social media I need.
>>>
>>> I did want to make a comment about the Illinois FOID card.
>>>
>>> I was a hostage in a bank robbery back in about 1993 in Quincy Illinois.
>>> Once it was over and I got out of the bank, I  learned that a co-worker
>>> had
>>> suffered some kind of stress attack and was in the hospital.  That
>>> afternoon
>>> they were out of beds in some of the areas so that took him to the 5th
>>> floor.  That is the psych floor.
>>>
>>> Then, it turned out, anyone that gets admitted to a psych ward in
>>> Illinois
>>> gets reported to the FOID people.
>>> They revoke the FOID card.
>>>
>>> This guy was a big time hunter.  It just about killed him.
>>> He got some pretty good press and got some political help.  Hot his card
>>> back in about 6 weeks.
>>>
>>> So, if you want to keep your FOID stay out of psych wards!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Philip J. Rankin
>> Wireless Telecommunications Services
>> PO Box 24
>> Pittsburg, KS  66762
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

The potential aggregator doesn't know that.  I don't want them to find out.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Oct 12, 2015, at 8:55 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> It's concealed... Shouldn't be relevant.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>> On Oct 12, 2015 8:52 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists"  wrote:
>> I go out of my way to avoid any potential conflict when I'm carrying.
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>> 
>>> On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I worry about a generation of kids raised on the Internet I encounter out 
>>> in the real world who don’t seem to know a different set of rules apply.  
>>> I’m surprised more don’t get punched in the nose.  Their real nose, not an 
>>> anonymous, virtual nose.
>>>  
>>> Speaking of which, this video of Buzz Aldrin never gets old:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptn5RE2I-k
>>>  
>>> That’s probably what my father, who fought in WWII and helped liberate some 
>>> of the death camps, would do today if he were still alive and met one of 
>>> those Holocaust deniers.
>>>  
>>> I also remember I think it was Mike Royko reporting that after a hockey  
>>> game at Chicago Stadium, a fan had punched Gordie Howe in the fist with his 
>>> face.  Google couldn’t find that for me, closest I could find was:
>>> http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-05-05/news/8602010647_1_fan-bashing-young-man
>>>  
>>> And to be clear, I’m not threatening to punch anybody in the nose, that’s 
>>> not my point.  I’m saying civility may be a thing of the past online, but 
>>> it’s still a good idea IRL.
>>>  
>>> Those of you in areas where people routinely carry firearms, does that 
>>> cause people to think twice before insulting other people?  Or is it like 
>>> the gangs in Chicago and they shoot instead of punching noses?  The movie 
>>> Tombstone was on TV yesterday, nice image of uncivil society.
>>>  
>>> Well, at least our weapon of choice when disrespected isn’t a bomb like 
>>> some parts of the world.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Mathew Howard
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:05 PM
>>> To: af
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>>  
>>> Well, he did say "mostly polite", not completely polite...
>>> 
>>> And no, you probably shouldn't expect civility anywhere online, or not 
>>> online, for that matter... unless you enjoy being disappointed :P
>>>  
 On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
 So Chucks says “folks are smart and mostly polite” and then you have to 
 ruin it.
  
 I don’t understand why it takes so little provocation these days to use
 the **tard word.  In this case, just because you disagree with some folks. 
  As I’ve turned 65 recently, I’ve noticed people using that language with 
 senior citizens because they (we?) don’t move fast enough or something.  
 Not to mention it’s insulting to people with mental retardation, to use 
 that very outdated term.
  
 Should I not expect civility online anywhere?
  
  
 From: Philip Rankin
 Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 1:09 PM
 To: af
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
  
 Especially with all thee libtard views out there today!
  
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
>  wrote:
>  
> It is also a great reminder that people in other parts of the country do 
> not necessarily share your views.
> Also a great reminder that the founders of this country really did know 
> what they were doing.
> For things to happen in this country you have to AGREE...which is 
> becoming more and more difficult ;)
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Chuck McCown
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:40 AM
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>  
> This has been fun reading.
> 
> I love this list.  Folks are smart and mostly polite and post some pretty 
> well reasoned arguments on both sides of almost any issue.  This is all 
> the 
> social media I need.
> 
> I did want to make a comment about the Illinois FOID card.
> 
> I was a hostage in a bank robbery back in about 1993 in Quincy Illinois. 
> Once it was over and I got out of the bank, I  learned that a co-worker 
> had 
> suffered some kind of stress attack and was in the hospital.  That 
> afternoon 
> they were out of beds in some of the areas so that took him to the 5th 
> floor.  That is the psych floor.
> 
> Then, it turned out, anyone that gets admitted to a psych ward in 
> Illinois 
> gets reported to the FOID people.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Josh Luthman]

Maybe.  I rarely encounter anything with others I don't know.  It's almost
always me asking them to stop screaming at their phone right outside my
room, then trying to smart mouth back, and ending with my sober response to
shut the hell up.  People avoid fights in my experience.

Before Saturday night I would say months since the last situation.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 12, 2015 9:03 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Your thought patterns change when you are carrying a weapon.  You may be
> less reticent to avoid a dicey situation.  You may not even be aware that
> your behavior has changed.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 7:55 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
>
> It's concealed... Shouldn't be relevant.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Oct 12, 2015 8:52 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" 
> wrote:
>
>> I go out of my way to avoid any potential conflict when I'm carrying.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> I worry about a generation of kids raised on the Internet I encounter out
>> in the real world who don’t seem to know a different set of rules apply.
>> I’m surprised more don’t get punched in the nose.  Their real nose, not an
>> anonymous, virtual nose.
>>
>> Speaking of which, this video of Buzz Aldrin never gets old:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptn5RE2I-k
>>
>> That’s probably what my father, who fought in WWII and helped liberate
>> some of the death camps, would do today if he were still alive and met one
>> of those Holocaust deniers.
>>
>> I also remember I think it was Mike Royko reporting that after a hockey
>> game at Chicago Stadium, a fan had punched Gordie Howe in the fist with his
>> face.  Google couldn’t find that for me, closest I could find was:
>>
>> http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-05-05/news/8602010647_1_fan-bashing-young-man
>>
>> And to be clear, I’m not threatening to punch anybody in the nose, that’s
>> not my point.  I’m saying civility may be a thing of the past online, but
>> it’s still a good idea IRL.
>>
>> Those of you in areas where people routinely carry firearms, does that
>> cause people to think twice before insulting other people?  Or is it like
>> the gangs in Chicago and they shoot instead of punching noses?  The movie
>> Tombstone was on TV yesterday, nice image of uncivil society.
>>
>> Well, at least our weapon of choice when disrespected isn’t a bomb like
>> some parts of the world.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:05 PM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>
>> Well, he did say "mostly polite", not completely polite...
>>
>> And no, you probably shouldn't expect civility anywhere online, or not
>> online, for that matter... unless you enjoy being disappointed :P
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> So Chucks says “folks are smart and mostly polite” and then you have to
>>> ruin it.
>>>
>>> I don’t understand why it takes so little provocation these days to use
>>> the **tard word.  In this case, just because you disagree with some folks.
>>> As I’ve turned 65 recently, I’ve noticed people using that language with
>>> senior citizens because they (we?) don’t move fast enough or something.
>>> Not to mention it’s insulting to people with mental retardation, to use
>>> that very outdated term.
>>>
>>> Should I not expect civility online anywhere?
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Philip Rankin 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2015 1:09 PM
>>> *To:* af 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>>
>>> Especially with all thee libtard views out there today!
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
>>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>>

 It is also a great reminder that people in other parts of the country
 do not necessarily share your views.
 Also a great reminder that the founders of this country really did know
 what they were doing.
 For things to happen in this country you have to AGREE...which is
 becoming more and more difficult ;)


 - Original Message -
 *From:* Chuck McCown 
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:40 AM
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

 This has been fun reading.

 I love this list.  Folks are smart and mostly polite and post some
 pretty
 well reasoned arguments on both sides of almost any issue.  This is all
 the
 social media I need.

 I did want to make a comment about 

Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet

[Bill Prince]

Chinese script kiddies

bp


On 10/11/2015 11:56 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

So this is what I'm seeing
No. TimeSource  Destination ProtocolLength  Info




1 	0 	97.244.127.16 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	80 	Standard query 0x0f7fA 
ipsx.www.feiwu28.com  	
2 	0.41 	97.244.127.16 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	80 	Standard query 0x0f7fA 
ipsx.www.feiwu28.com  	
3 	0.152372 	108.149.222.68 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	78 	Standard query 0x43deA 
wt.www.feiwu28.com  	
4 	0.152419 	108.149.222.68 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	78 	Standard query 0x43deA 
wt.www.feiwu28.com  	
5 	0.284983 	77.1.51.122 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	90 	Standard query 0x7933A 
mzybuvoxitajax.www.feiwu28.com 
6 	0.285022 	77.1.51.122 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	90 	Standard query 0x7933A 
mzybuvoxitajax.www.feiwu28.com 
7 	0.376112 	90.5.169.181 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	88 	Standard query 0xb4a9A 
ydghgtwlydqn.www.feiwu28.com 
8 	0.376153 	90.5.169.181 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	88 	Standard query 0xb4a9A 
ydghgtwlydqn.www.feiwu28.com 
9 	0.402671 	122.238.197.130 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	90 	Standard query 
0x81c5A cnmbabadihghyn.www.feiwu28.com 

10 	0.402701 	122.238.197.130 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	90 	Standard query 
0x81c5A cnmbabadihghyn.www.feiwu28.com 

11 	0.435507 	64.25.181.145 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	84 	Standard query 0x90b5A 
azyxqpov.www.feiwu28.com 
12 	0.435545 	64.25.181.145 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	84 	Standard query 0x90b5A 
azyxqpov.www.feiwu28.com 
13 	0.479851 	35.105.6.37 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	92 	Standard query 0x2406A 
ujyfknkbmvazybip.www.feiwu28.com 

14 	0.479889 	35.105.6.37 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	92 	Standard query 0x2406A 
ujyfknkbmvazybip.www.feiwu28.com 

15 	0.55605 	53.94.187.123 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	86 	Standard query 0x7abbA 
udubabytyp.www.feiwu28.com 
16 	0.556087 	53.94.187.123 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	86 	Standard query 0x7abbA 
udubabytyp.www.feiwu28.com 
17 	0.764436 	83.102.42.152 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	78 	Standard query 0x972aA 
yh.www.feiwu28.com  	
18 	0.764491 	83.102.42.152 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	78 	Standard query 0x972aA 
yh.www.feiwu28.com  	
19 	0.794148 	123.253.173.4 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	92 	Standard query 0x03adA 
epaxwjolchkhkzkz.www.feiwu28.com 

20 	0.794189 	123.253.173.4 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	92 	Standard query 0x03adA 
epaxwjolchkhkzkz.www.feiwu28.com 

21 	0.795351 	80.152.25.238 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	92 	Standard query 0xed19A 
ujonopsvixozajwx.www.feiwu28.com 

22 	0.795382 	80.152.25.238 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	92 	Standard query 0xed19A 
ujonopsvixozajwx.www.feiwu28.com 

23 	0.799311 	69.172.160.207 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	92 	Standard query 
0xcea0A gfurwzsvonohydun.www.feiwu28.com 

24 	0.799339 	69.172.160.207 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	92 	Standard query 
0xcea0A gfurwzsvonohydun.www.feiwu28.com 

25 	0.799366 	116.108.83.140 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	92 	Standard query 
0x8b53A utshctevwzczehyj.www.feiwu28.com 

26 	0.799397 	116.108.83.140 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	92 	Standard query 
0x8b53A utshctevwzczehyj.www.feiwu28.com 

27 	1.351741 	95.136.208.159 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	78 	Standard query 
0x9ed0A kr.www.feiwu28.com  	
28 	1.351793 	95.136.208.159 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	78 	Standard query 
0x9ed0A kr.www.feiwu28.com  	
29 	1.351799 	126.133.60.242 	x.x.x.29 	DNS 	78 	Standard query 
0xf13cA uf.www.feiwu28.com  	



On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:26 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
> wrote:


i am stupid.
sounds like a great demonstration.
wispapaloosa session anyone?
or would this be one of those "hall conversations" i keep hearing
about? :)

- Original Message -
*From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 12:27 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet

I love these mikrotiks!!

Thanks for pointing out I can just save the file and load it
into wireshark, drag and dropped it out of winbox to my PC
without having to set up a cupture for the stream 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

I go out of my way to avoid any potential conflict when I'm carrying.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I worry about a generation of kids raised on the Internet I encounter out  in 
> the real world who don’t seem to know a different set of rules apply.  I’m 
> surprised more don’t get punched in the nose.  Their real nose, not an 
> anonymous, virtual nose.
>  
> Speaking of which, this video of Buzz Aldrin never gets old:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptn5RE2I-k
>  
> That’s probably what my father, who fought in WWII and helped liberate some 
> of the death camps, would do today if he were still alive and met one of 
> those Holocaust deniers.
>  
> I also remember I think it was Mike Royko reporting that after a hockey game 
> at Chicago Stadium, a fan had punched Gordie Howe in the fist with his face.  
> Google couldn’t find that for me, closest I could find was:
> http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-05-05/news/8602010647_1_fan-bashing-young-man
>  
> And to be clear, I’m not threatening to punch anybody in the nose, that’s not 
> my point.  I’m saying civility may be a thing of the past online, but it’s 
> still a good idea IRL.
>  
> Those of you in areas where people routinely carry firearms, does that cause 
> people to think twice before insulting other people?  Or is it like the gangs 
> in Chicago and they shoot instead of punching noses?  The movie Tombstone was 
> on TV yesterday, nice image of uncivil society.
>  
> Well, at least our weapon of choice when disrespected isn’t a bomb like some 
> parts of the world.
>  
>  
> From: Mathew Howard
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:05 PM
> To: af
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>  
> Well, he did say "mostly polite", not completely polite...
> 
> And no, you probably shouldn't expect civility anywhere online, or not 
> online, for that matter... unless you enjoy being disappointed :P
>  
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> So Chucks says “folks are smart and mostly polite” and then you have to ruin 
>> it.
>>  
>> I don’t understand why it takes so little provocation these days to use the 
>> **tard word.  In this case, just because you disagree with some folks.  As 
>> I’ve turned 65 recently, I’ve noticed people using that language with senior 
>> citizens because they (we?) don’t move fast enough or something.  Not to 
>> mention it’s insulting to people with mental retardation, to use that very 
>> outdated term.
>>  
>> Should I not expect civility online anywhere?
>>  
>>  
>> From: Philip Rankin
>> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 1:09 PM
>> To: af
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>  
>> Especially with all thee libtard views out there today!
>>  
>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
>>>  wrote:
>>>  
>>> It is also a great reminder that people in other parts of the country do 
>>> not necessarily share your views.
>>> Also a great reminder that the founders of this country really did know 
>>> what they were doing.
>>> For things to happen in this country you have to AGREE...which is becoming 
>>> more and more difficult ;)
>>>  
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Chuck McCown
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:40 AM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>>  
>>> This has been fun reading.
>>> 
>>> I love this list.  Folks are smart and mostly polite and post some pretty 
>>> well reasoned arguments on both sides of almost any issue.  This is all the 
>>> social media I need.
>>> 
>>> I did want to make a comment about the Illinois FOID card.
>>> 
>>> I was a hostage in a bank robbery back in about 1993 in Quincy Illinois. 
>>> Once it was over and I got out of the bank, I  learned that a co-worker had 
>>> suffered some kind of stress attack and was in the hospital.  That 
>>> afternoon 
>>> they were out of beds in some of the areas so that took him to the 5th 
>>> floor.  That is the psych floor.
>>> 
>>> Then, it turned out, anyone that gets admitted to a psych ward in Illinois 
>>> gets reported to the FOID people.
>>> They revoke the FOID card.
>>> 
>>> This guy was a big time hunter.  It just about killed him.
>>> He got some pretty good press and got some political help.  Hot his card 
>>> back in about 6 weeks.
>>> 
>>> So, if you want to keep your FOID stay out of psych wards!
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> -- 
>> Philip J. Rankin
>> Wireless Telecommunications Services
>> PO Box 24
>> Pittsburg, KS  66762
> 
>  

Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.shadowserver.org/wiki/pmwiki.php/Involve/GetReportsOnYourNetwork 
https://radar.qrator.net/ 
https://tcconsole.com/ 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp84 
http://www.bcp38.info/index.php/Main_Page 


Also, it appears that Cloudflare manages that domain. 


I'd suspect you have or had an open DNS resolver on your network or there was a 
typo somewhere. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:56:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a lot of traffic to a dead subnet 



So this is what I'm seeing 
No. TimeSource  Destination ProtocolLength  Info

1   0   97.244.127.16   x.x.x.29DNS 80  
Standard query 0x0f7f A ipsx.www.feiwu28.com
2   0.4197.244.127.16   x.x.x.29DNS 80  
Standard query 0x0f7f A ipsx.www.feiwu28.com
3   0.152372108.149.222.68  x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x43de A wt.www.feiwu28.com  
4   0.152419108.149.222.68  x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x43de A wt.www.feiwu28.com  
5   0.28498377.1.51.122 x.x.x.29DNS 90  
Standard query 0x7933 A mzybuvoxitajax.www.feiwu28.com 
6   0.28502277.1.51.122 x.x.x.29DNS 90  
Standard query 0x7933 A mzybuvoxitajax.www.feiwu28.com 
7   0.37611290.5.169.181x.x.x.29DNS 88  
Standard query 0xb4a9 A ydghgtwlydqn.www.feiwu28.com 
8   0.37615390.5.169.181x.x.x.29DNS 88  
Standard query 0xb4a9 A ydghgtwlydqn.www.feiwu28.com 
9   0.402671122.238.197.130 x.x.x.29DNS 
90  Standard query 0x81c5 A cnmbabadihghyn.www.feiwu28.com 
10  0.402701122.238.197.130 x.x.x.29DNS 
90  Standard query 0x81c5 A cnmbabadihghyn.www.feiwu28.com 
11  0.43550764.25.181.145   x.x.x.29DNS 84  
Standard query 0x90b5 A azyxqpov.www.feiwu28.com 
12  0.43554564.25.181.145   x.x.x.29DNS 84  
Standard query 0x90b5 A azyxqpov.www.feiwu28.com 
13  0.47985135.105.6.37 x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x2406 A ujyfknkbmvazybip.www.feiwu28.com 
14  0.47988935.105.6.37 x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x2406 A ujyfknkbmvazybip.www.feiwu28.com 
15  0.55605 53.94.187.123   x.x.x.29DNS 86  
Standard query 0x7abb A udubabytyp.www.feiwu28.com 
16  0.55608753.94.187.123   x.x.x.29DNS 86  
Standard query 0x7abb A udubabytyp.www.feiwu28.com 
17  0.76443683.102.42.152   x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x972a A yh.www.feiwu28.com  
18  0.76449183.102.42.152   x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x972a A yh.www.feiwu28.com  
19  0.794148123.253.173.4   x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x03ad A epaxwjolchkhkzkz.www.feiwu28.com 
20  0.794189123.253.173.4   x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x03ad A epaxwjolchkhkzkz.www.feiwu28.com 
21  0.79535180.152.25.238   x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0xed19 A ujonopsvixozajwx.www.feiwu28.com 
22  0.79538280.152.25.238   x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0xed19 A ujonopsvixozajwx.www.feiwu28.com 
23  0.79931169.172.160.207  x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0xcea0 A gfurwzsvonohydun.www.feiwu28.com 
24  0.79933969.172.160.207  x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0xcea0 A gfurwzsvonohydun.www.feiwu28.com 
25  0.799366116.108.83.140  x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x8b53 A utshctevwzczehyj.www.feiwu28.com 
26  0.799397116.108.83.140  x.x.x.29DNS 92  
Standard query 0x8b53 A utshctevwzczehyj.www.feiwu28.com 
27  1.35174195.136.208.159  x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x9ed0 A kr.www.feiwu28.com  
28  1.35179395.136.208.159  x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0x9ed0 A kr.www.feiwu28.com  
29  1.351799126.133.60.242  x.x.x.29DNS 78  
Standard query 0xf13c A uf.www.feiwu28.com  


On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:26 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller < par...@cyberbroadband.net > 
wrote: 






i am stupid. 
sounds like a great demonstration. 
wispapaloosa session anyone? 

or would this be one of those "hall conversations" i keep hearing about? :) 



- Original Message - 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Josh Luthman]

Exactly.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 12, 2015 8:58 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists"  wrote:

> The potential aggregator doesn't know that.  I don't want them to find out.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>
> On Oct 12, 2015, at 8:55 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> It's concealed... Shouldn't be relevant.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Oct 12, 2015 8:52 AM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" 
> wrote:
>
>> I go out of my way to avoid any potential conflict when I'm carrying.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> I worry about a generation of kids raised on the Internet I encounter out
>> in the real world who don’t seem to know a different set of rules apply.
>> I’m surprised more don’t get punched in the nose.  Their real nose, not an
>> anonymous, virtual nose.
>>
>> Speaking of which, this video of Buzz Aldrin never gets old:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptn5RE2I-k
>>
>> That’s probably what my father, who fought in WWII and helped liberate
>> some of the death camps, would do today if he were still alive and met one
>> of those Holocaust deniers.
>>
>> I also remember I think it was Mike Royko reporting that after a hockey
>> game at Chicago Stadium, a fan had punched Gordie Howe in the fist with his
>> face.  Google couldn’t find that for me, closest I could find was:
>>
>> http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-05-05/news/8602010647_1_fan-bashing-young-man
>>
>> And to be clear, I’m not threatening to punch anybody in the nose, that’s
>> not my point.  I’m saying civility may be a thing of the past online, but
>> it’s still a good idea IRL.
>>
>> Those of you in areas where people routinely carry firearms, does that
>> cause people to think twice before insulting other people?  Or is it like
>> the gangs in Chicago and they shoot instead of punching noses?  The movie
>> Tombstone was on TV yesterday, nice image of uncivil society.
>>
>> Well, at least our weapon of choice when disrespected isn’t a bomb like
>> some parts of the world.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:05 PM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>
>> Well, he did say "mostly polite", not completely polite...
>>
>> And no, you probably shouldn't expect civility anywhere online, or not
>> online, for that matter... unless you enjoy being disappointed :P
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> So Chucks says “folks are smart and mostly polite” and then you have to
>>> ruin it.
>>>
>>> I don’t understand why it takes so little provocation these days to use
>>> the **tard word.  In this case, just because you disagree with some folks.
>>> As I’ve turned 65 recently, I’ve noticed people using that language with
>>> senior citizens because they (we?) don’t move fast enough or something.
>>> Not to mention it’s insulting to people with mental retardation, to use
>>> that very outdated term.
>>>
>>> Should I not expect civility online anywhere?
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Philip Rankin 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2015 1:09 PM
>>> *To:* af 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>>
>>> Especially with all thee libtard views out there today!
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:10 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
>>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>>

 It is also a great reminder that people in other parts of the country
 do not necessarily share your views.
 Also a great reminder that the founders of this country really did know
 what they were doing.
 For things to happen in this country you have to AGREE...which is
 becoming more and more difficult ;)


 - Original Message -
 *From:* Chuck McCown 
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:40 AM
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

 This has been fun reading.

 I love this list.  Folks are smart and mostly polite and post some
 pretty
 well reasoned arguments on both sides of almost any issue.  This is all
 the
 social media I need.

 I did want to make a comment about the Illinois FOID card.

 I was a hostage in a bank robbery back in about 1993 in Quincy
 Illinois.
 Once it was over and I got out of the bank, I  learned that a co-worker
 had
 suffered some kind of stress attack and was in the hospital.  That
 afternoon
 they were out of beds in some of the areas so that took him to the 5th
 floor.  That 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: new snack for Chuck

[Chuck McCown]

Mmm

-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 8:10 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: new snack for Chuck 


Saw on the TV this morning that Hormel now sells dried Spam snacks.

http://www.foodbeast.com/news/spam-bites/

[AFMUG] Alvarion BreezeMax Extreme SM connecting to PMP320 AP?

[Ben Royer]

Has anyone successfully worked with getting the Alvarion BreezeMax Extreme SM 
to connect to the PMP320 AP?  More specifically, we had two Alvarion AP’s fail 
over the weekend, and are working to replace them with PMP320 AP’s.  Since the 
SM’s are still Gemtek radios, we have got about half the SM’s to connect to the 
AP, but are still working to get management access to the SM’s.  If anyone has 
had experience with this particular setup, I’d be interested to know if there 
is a trick to getting the management access through the PMP320 AP.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 151011-0, 10/11/2015
Tested on: 10/12/2015 9:48:18 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2015 AVAST Software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] how far can we go in capturing and investigating data?

[Jon Auer]

Re: if you capture...
That's actually a matter of federal law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2258A?quicktabs_8=2#quicktabs-8

If you don't report, $150,000 fine the first time, $300,000 after that.

National Center For Missing And Exploited Children had a booth the last
time I was at HostingCon.
On Oct 12, 2015 08:37, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> IANAL, but I would think you could capture and investigate any traffic you
> want on your network.  The problem would be what you do with that data, for
> example disclosing to third parties, disclosing to law enforcement without
> a valid warrant or court order pertaining to that customer, or using it to
> block or throttle legal content without a permitted network management
> purpose.
>
> Oddly, if you capture kiddie porn, you may be required by state law to
> disclose that to law enforcement.
>
> Once you have accomplished your troubleshooting, I would probably delete
> any records of the captured data.  If you don’t have it, you can’t disclose
> it.
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 12:53 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] how far can we go in capturing and investigating data?
>
> what is the legality of us capturing and reviewing data for
> troubleshooting. Is there a clearly defined line? I assume we cant capture
> encrypted traffic and try to decrypt it and get to the underlying data.
> Is there a set of words that we can put in our TOS that give us a pass?
>
> This is a concern thats come up because im troubleshooting an issue on a
> customer who is a prick. The type that would say "how did you find out
> whats happenning" And then trying to sue us when we tell them we captured
> and reviewed traffic. Im tempted to have the boss get a release drawn up
> for this douchebag to sign.
>
> Is this something we are covered over since it falls under the blanket of
> troubleshooting? Are we technically required to notify a customer if we are
> capturing their data?
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I like arguments, heated ones are the best, but this topic has the
potential to derail what has always been a very good forum for this
industry. May I recommend it be closed before somebody gets their panties
in a bunch and this joint ends up like a dslreports forum?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Patrick Leary 
wrote:

> ++ 1000
>
> Patrick Leary
>
>
> Patrick Leary
> Telrad
> On Oct 12, 2015 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability),
> ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower
> was probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for
> effectively running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to
> fill the job, look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?
>
> I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck
> gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and
> yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into
> legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an
> ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they
> could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like
> Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the money after
> paying all that hush money.
>
>
> *From:* Patrick Leary 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
> Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality,
> factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president
> today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.
>
> Patrick Leary
> Telrad
> On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:
> Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked
> tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.
> Ford  and Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different
> story. He wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.
> There is only one way to preside and that is to work  with the other side
> some.  That's when he had to give up his far right position some  Nixon is
> the only conservative that had any bearing on this country in the last 50
> years.  I should say conservative bearing!
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, one.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last
 50 years right?

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:

> Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that
> logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this
> country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, 
> actually
> it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the
> debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the
> stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written 
> in
> the first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that the majority 
> of
> the population don't want because we were lied to about it.  And then the
> RINOs bailing out their favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?
> And this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.
> Notice I didn't say Democrat or Republican?  It's libtards! These folk 
> have
> no concern for their country or their fellow man.  All they want is to 
> line
> their pockets and control people!  Call me rude if you like!  I haven't
> even cracked the door on the rudeness these people have done to all of us
> including many generations to follow us!  And,  while were at it, how 
> about
> all of those babies that will never have an opportunity to join us?  What 
> a
> sickening shame!  No, Travesty!
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
>
>> Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were
>> not in agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe 
>> in
>> "Certain Inalienable Rights" with government here only to preserve those
>> rights, not impose someone else's stupidity on me.  And, that the libs 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Ken Hohhof]

I don’t think Trump qualifies as running a big organization, in any sense 
comparable to running the Executive branch.  Fiorina at least ran a large 
corporation with many departments and business units.

Actually I think Bernie Sanders may be the smartest, most honest, and most 
independent guy in the race.  Just this small matter of being a self-described 
SOCIALIST!

Ben Carson scares me with that droopy-eyed spaced-out thing he does.  Like he’s 
on something.  That doesn’t bother anyone?  I would even be scared to have him 
do brain surgery on me, even though by all accounts he is an excellent doctor.  
I don’t know why everyone says he is so smart - because he has a medical 
degree?  Fiorina seems much sharper to me, but I keep waiting for her to eat a 
rat like Diana the reptilian alien in “V”.  Granted she got fired at HP (Carly, 
not Diana), but compared to that guy Leo Apotheker she was a genius.  Not an 
Eisenhower though.

We really need the Tea Party to split off as their own party and stop co-opting 
the Republican party.  And for Socialists to run under their own party as well. 
 Then we can have a multi-party system like most of the rest of the world, 
where one of the centrist parties has to get one or more fringe parties to join 
their caucus to get a majority.  The current system where party primaries 
discard people like Bob Bennett and Eric Cantor as too centrist, that’s getting 
crazy.


From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 11:16 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

He can’t be influenced by other peoples money.  Not a bad thing.  Again, could 
he be worse than what we have?

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:13 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

 

So... you're saying we should elect Trump? He does run a large organization, 
afterall :P

 

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability), 
ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower was 
probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for effectively 
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, 
look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?

 

I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck gets to 
be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and yes it’s 
about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but the 
Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.  People still 
remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they could bring Newt Gingrich or 
Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and 
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush money.

 

 

From: Patrick Leary 

Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

 

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

 

Patrick Leary

Telrad

On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:

Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing! 

 

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:

Yes, one. 

 

 

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 years 
right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:

Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that logic???  
How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this country in the 
past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually it's so far beyond 
rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the debt, the credit 
ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that 
cover laws that should not have ever been written in 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Christopher Tyler]

FOOD FIGHT

-- 
Christopher Tyler 
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE 
Total Highspeed Internet Services 
417.851.1107

- Original Message -
From: "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 12:01:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

I like arguments, heated ones are the best, but this topic has the
potential to derail what has always been a very good forum for this
industry. May I recommend it be closed before somebody gets their panties
in a bunch and this joint ends up like a dslreports forum?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Patrick Leary 
wrote:

> ++ 1000
>
> Patrick Leary
>
>
> Patrick Leary
> Telrad
> On Oct 12, 2015 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability),
> ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower
> was probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for
> effectively running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to
> fill the job, look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?
>
> I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck
> gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and
> yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into
> legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an
> ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they
> could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like
> Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the money after
> paying all that hush money.
>
>
> *From:* Patrick Leary 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
> Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality,
> factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president
> today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.
>
> Patrick Leary
> Telrad
> On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:
> Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked
> tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.
> Ford  and Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different
> story. He wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.
> There is only one way to preside and that is to work  with the other side
> some.  That's when he had to give up his far right position some  Nixon is
> the only conservative that had any bearing on this country in the last 50
> years.  I should say conservative bearing!
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, one.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last
 50 years right?

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:

> Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that
> logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this
> country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, 
> actually
> it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the
> debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the
> stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written 
> in
> the first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that the majority 
> of
> the population don't want because we were lied to about it.  And then the
> RINOs bailing out their favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?
> And this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.
> Notice I didn't say Democrat or Republican?  It's libtards! These folk 
> have
> no concern for their country or their fellow man.  All they want is to 
> line
> their pockets and control people!  Call me rude if you like!  I haven't
> even cracked the door on the rudeness these people have done to all of us
> including many generations to follow us!  And,  while were at it, how 
> about
> all of those babies that will never have an opportunity to join us?  What 
> a
> sickening shame!  No, Travesty!
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
>
>> Haven't made my point 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Patrick Leary]

++ 1000

Patrick Leary


Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 12, 2015 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability), 
ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower was 
probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for effectively 
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, 
look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?

I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck gets to 
be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and yes it’s 
about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but the 
Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.  People still 
remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they could bring Newt Gingrich or 
Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and 
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush money.


From: Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:
Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Yes, one.


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 years 
right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
> wrote:
Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that logic???  
How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this country in the 
past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually it's so far beyond 
rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the debt, the credit 
ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that 
cover laws that should not have ever been written in the first place.  Or, the 
stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the population don't want 
because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs bailing out their 
favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this isn't even the tip 
of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't say Democrat or 
Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for their country or 
their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and control people!  
Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on the rudeness 
these people have done to all of us including many generations to follow us!  
And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will never have an 
opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were not in 
agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in "Certain 
Inalienable Rights" with government here only to preserve those rights, not 
impose someone else's stupidity on me.  And, that the libs want someone else to 
take care of them all of the time.  To me, that's retarded and just plain dumb. 
 Now that I look at those that have their crazy position and compare that 
position to their past posts on here, I now understand some of their past posts 
here!

I am not about to let someone shoot me during a convenience store holdup.  I 
will die with my 45 in hand before I let the bad guy take me or anyone else 
easily.  Now, to shoot someone as he is driving away with my dvd player as more 
libtardiness suggested  How 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Mathew Howard]

I agree, the constitution is pretty clear and that is supposed to be the
ultimate law here. If there was enough support to get a constitutional
amendment passed, that would be one thing, but until that happens it needs
to be followed regardless of whether or not it is what's best or what our
politicians think is best.

Speaking of banning "assault knives"... that's actually already been done.
Back in the 1950's switchblades were banned... and unsurprisingly it's had
pretty much no effect on anything. The laws have slowing been getting
repealed state by state, but it is still illegal to take them across state
lines in most circumstances.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Your points are largely good ones.
>
> Requiring a license for guns as we do for handling dangerous chemicals,
> driving cars, flying aircraft, etc would not impede on your ability to
> defend yourself from wildlife, or criminals, or even to participate in a
> militia. and it would not be a completely crazy thing.  Presumably, if
> you see a need to have a gun, then you'd get a license.
>
> With that said, I disagree with all current gun control legislation for
> one reason:  The constitution says my right to keep and bear arms shall not
> be infringed.  They get around it with tax laws and interstate commerce
> regulations.  If it's that easy to circumvent the constitution then why do
> we have it?  Who says they couldn't put a tax on public gatherings or
> regulate the interstate distribution of media?  Thereby circumventing the
> first amendment without having to challenge it directly.
>
> IMO any gun control laws that aren't preceded by a constitutional
> amendment should never have happened and the supreme court should not have
> upheld them.
>
>
> On 10/12/2015 11:39 AM, Dan Petermann wrote:
>
>> Its is the person, not the gun.
>>
>> Any number of household chemicals can be used to maim or kill. There are
>> gasses, poisons and explosives that can be manufactured from legal to
>> purchase chemicals.
>>
>> The gun gets singled out because it it easy to conceal and has that
>> �scary� factor.
>>
>> Should we outlaw baseball bats? How about knives? Maybe only "assault
>> knives�, you know, those scary looking Rambo ones.
>>
>> Cars are a highly lethal weapon. I could kill more people with a car that
>> I ever could hope to with an assault weapon. Football game and an monster
>> truck anyone?
>>
>> Any farmer has the capability to build a bomb like Timothy McVeigh,
>> outlaw farmers?
>>
>> Any mentally ill person (and lets face it, anyone bent on murder is
>> mentally ill), will find a way. This is why I have a problem with the
>> insanity defense. You are not guilty by reason of insanity, you are guilty,
>> but insane.
>>
>> Almost any object is a potential weapon.
>>
>> I live in an area where there is dangerous wildlife. Am I to be disarmed
>> so I am unable to defend myself? There are grizzly bears, black bears,
>> mountain lions, bob cats, wolves, & coyotes, all have been spotted fairly
>> close to my house. So, because some people abuse a right, I am to give up
>> mine?
>>
>> Should we abandon the 1st amendment also because someone might yell fire
>> in a crowded theater?
>>
>> Lets control all speech because some people might misuse it.
>>
>> Hmm, lets see, religion is a major contributor to problems of all kinds,
>> lets let the state decide what religion we can be a member of.
>>
>> Other people call for the whole sale slaughter of others, so lets let the
>> government decide what speech is allowable.
>>
>> I get really offended by what is written in the press so lets control
>> that also.
>>
>> Large groups of people assembled for a specific purpose frightens me so
>> lets outlaw that too.
>>
>> How about the third amendment? Soldiers shouldn�t have to live in
>> barracks, lets quarter them in your house.
>>
>> 4th? That pesky need for warrants, think of how many criminals could be
>> put away if it wasn�t for the 4th amendment!
>>
>> I would go on but I think you get the point. Just because someone might
>> get injured, or afraid, or offended, or even have good intentions, it
>> doesn�t give them a right to take away my rights.
>>
>> The right to defend one�s self is the most basic right of all.
>>
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2015, at 10:21 PM, Stefan Englhardt  wrote:
>>
>> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in
>>> US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the
>>> statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be
>>> very restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club
>>> and leave the weapon there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is
>>> silly esp. with kids around.
>>> You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I
>>> need a weapon I call for police or security.
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Chuck McCown]

Paris, dragging 6 little kids.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:39 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

The one in Paris? Not near the life threatening thrill. Maybe you are talking 
about another one?

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Try walking to the obelisk...  
  Holy crap talk about a risk.   

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 12:54 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

  Last time I was in Paris my wife got impatient trying to find a way over to 
the Arc de Triomphe and wanted to just run across the circle. I am all for 
risky thrill seeking but not certain death. 

  For those that haven't been there, it is in the middle of a traffic circle  
with 12 large roads going in and out and the road must be 40 or 50 yards wide. 
Traffic whirs around that thing like a cyclotron. 


  My wife is also 5 foot and has the legs of a wobly two year old. We did 
eventually find the underground tunnels. I told her "Look at all those people, 
there must be 200 hundred of them. I can promise you out of that many at least 
20 would still be strewn across the pavement with parts missing. There has to 
be a tunnel around here somewhere."

  The two nearest were hidden by those annoying street performers. I really 
don't like those people. I did get to see a guy on a moped with a bag of 
groceries and a cigarette in his mouth cut off a huge truck that I could swear 
he cleaned of the front left bumper of as he skittered by.



  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 10:53 AM Patrick Leary  wrote:

It’s mesmerizing to watch the scooter traffic in Rome. A bit like red blood 
cells jostling around in the blood stream towards some destination.



Patrick Leary, Telrad

727-501-3735



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 11:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings




I love Puerto Rico because you don’t signal on lane changes on the 
freeways.  



(Worst place I ever drove was Athens, Manhattan is a country road by 
comparison).

From: Patrick Leary 

Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:36 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings



I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege to 
drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result, German 
drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on the right. 
You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or even middle 
lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their indicator. And of 
course, Germans respect that government has a job and is not the enemy, so they 
don’t reject taxation for infrastructure. As a result, Germany has MUCH better 
roads than we do. Seriously. The German autobahn is twice as thick and better 
banked. To be fair, we have thousands of miles more of Interstate, so we do 
have a harder job. Still. Also, you can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has 
strict inspection rules, that even include aesthetics, but the emphasis is on 
safe functioning. 



We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have much larger 
distances and lots of backroads and farms and country roads. I think we don’t 
need the same standard of road, but we do need roads that are well-maintained, 
and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should focus less on 
cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here in FL are nationally famous for 
bullshit speed traps – e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on ticketing bad drivers.



Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the U.S. and Germany. A 
German won’t say, “I’m driving the speed limit so screw you, go around.” 
Germans, like other Europeans, understand they have a civic responsibility. Too 
many Americans reject civic responsibility as being “against freedom” and 
“un-American.” The closest parallel in the U.S. to how the Germans behave is 
the Mormon population, which places a very high premium on civic 
responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body politic as one 
functioning unit. The concept of the Hive (ergo, Chuck’s Beehive).



-  Patrick



On Behalf Of Mathew Howard


Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:32 PM
To: af 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings




What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I 
would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the typical 
American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here than in 
Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some extent. 

On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:

  Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my 
eyes.

  Nothing to say against 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I just want everyone to note that I was the adult this time

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Mathew Howard 
wrote:

> Agreed, it's been a fun discussion, but it would be best to stop before we
> go too far and people start leaving the list. Perhaps we should have
> another list for some of these off topic discussions...
>
> And on that note, I'll shut up.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I like arguments, heated ones are the best, but this topic has the
>> potential to derail what has always been a very good forum for this
>> industry. May I recommend it be closed before somebody gets their panties
>> in a bunch and this joint ends up like a dslreports forum?
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Patrick Leary > > wrote:
>>
>>> ++ 1000
>>>
>>> Patrick Leary
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick Leary
>>> Telrad
>>> On Oct 12, 2015 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability),
>>> ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower
>>> was probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for
>>> effectively running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to
>>> fill the job, look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?
>>>
>>> I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck
>>> gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and
>>> yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into
>>> legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an
>>> ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they
>>> could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like
>>> Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the money after
>>> paying all that hush money.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Patrick Leary 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>>
>>> Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality,
>>> factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president
>>> today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.
>>>
>>> Patrick Leary
>>> Telrad
>>> On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:
>>> Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked
>>> tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.
>>> Ford  and Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different
>>> story. He wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.
>>> There is only one way to preside and that is to work  with the other side
>>> some.  That's when he had to give up his far right position some  Nixon is
>>> the only conservative that had any bearing on this country in the last 50
>>> years.  I should say conservative bearing!
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
 wrote:

> Yes, one.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the
>> last 50 years right?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse
>>> that logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to
>>> this country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know,
>>> actually it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  
>>> Start
>>> with the debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff
>>> deals, the stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever 
>>> been
>>> written in the first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that 
>>> the
>>> majority of the population don't want because we were lied to about it.
>>> And then the RINOs bailing out their favorite companies after they got
>>> their kickbacks?  And this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all
>>> liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't say Democrat or Republican?  It's
>>> libtards! These folk have no concern for their country or their fellow
>>> man.  All they want is to line their pockets and control people!  Call 
>>> me
>>> rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

I walked/ran across the circle 20 years ago...it was mid day and there was 
little traffic.  Can't imagine trying to do it when it's busy!

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Oct 12, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Paris, dragging 6 little kids. 
>  
> From: Lewis Bergman
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:39 AM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>  
> The one in Paris? Not near the life threatening thrill. Maybe you are talking 
> about another one?
>  
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> Try walking to the obelisk... 
>> Holy crap talk about a risk.  
>>  
>> From: Lewis Bergman
>> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 12:54 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>  
>> Last time I was in Paris my wife got impatient trying to find a way over to 
>> the Arc de Triomphe and wanted to just run across the circle. I am all for 
>> risky thrill seeking but not certain death.
>> 
>> For those that haven't been there, it is in the middle of a traffic circle  
>> with 12 large roads going in and out and the road must be 40 or 50 yards 
>> wide. Traffic whirs around that thing like a cyclotron. 
>> 
>> My wife is also 5 foot and has the legs of a wobly two year old. We did 
>> eventually find the underground tunnels. I told her "Look at all those 
>> people, there must be 200 hundred of them. I can promise you out of that 
>> many at least 20 would still be strewn across the pavement with parts 
>> missing. There has to be a tunnel around here somewhere."
>> 
>> The two nearest were hidden by those annoying street performers. I really 
>> don't like those people. I did get to see a guy on a moped with a bag of 
>> groceries and a cigarette in his mouth cut off a huge truck that I could 
>> swear he cleaned of the front left bumper of as he skittered by.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 10:53 AM Patrick Leary  
>> wrote:
>>> It’s mesmerizing to watch the scooter traffic in Rome. A bit like red blood 
>>> cells jostling around in the blood stream towards some destination.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Patrick Leary, Telrad
>>> 
>>> 727-501-3735
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 11:14 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I love Puerto Rico because you don’t signal on lane changes on the 
>>> freeways. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> (Worst place I ever drove was Athens, Manhattan is a country road by 
>>> comparison).
>>> 
>>> From: Patrick Leary
>>> 
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:36 PM
>>> 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege to 
>>> drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result, German 
>>> drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on the 
>>> right. You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or 
>>> even middle lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their 
>>> indicator. And of course, Germans respect that government has a job and is 
>>> not the enemy, so they don’t reject taxation for infrastructure. As a 
>>> result, Germany has MUCH better roads than we do. Seriously. The German 
>>> autobahn is twice as thick and better banked. To be fair, we have thousands 
>>> of miles more of Interstate, so we do have a harder job. Still. Also, you 
>>> can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has strict inspection rules, that 
>>> even include aesthetics, but the emphasis is on safe functioning.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have much larger 
>>> distances and lots of backroads and farms and country roads. I think we 
>>> don’t need the same standard of road, but we do need roads that are 
>>> well-maintained, and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should 
>>> focus less on cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here in FL are 
>>> nationally famous for bullshit speed traps – e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on 
>>> ticketing bad drivers.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the U.S. and Germany. A 
>>> German won’t say, “I’m driving the speed limit so screw you, go around.” 
>>> Germans, like other Europeans, understand they have a civic responsibility. 
>>> Too many Americans reject civic responsibility as being “against freedom” 
>>> and “un-American.” The closest parallel in the U.S. to how the Germans 
>>> behave is the Mormon population, which places a very high premium on civic 
>>> responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body politic as one 
>>> functioning unit. The concept of the Hive (ergo, Chuck’s Beehive).
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> -  Patrick
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Mathew Howard]

Agreed, it's been a fun discussion, but it would be best to stop before we
go too far and people start leaving the list. Perhaps we should have
another list for some of these off topic discussions...

And on that note, I'll shut up.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I like arguments, heated ones are the best, but this topic has the
> potential to derail what has always been a very good forum for this
> industry. May I recommend it be closed before somebody gets their panties
> in a bunch and this joint ends up like a dslreports forum?
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Patrick Leary 
> wrote:
>
>> ++ 1000
>>
>> Patrick Leary
>>
>>
>> Patrick Leary
>> Telrad
>> On Oct 12, 2015 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability),
>> ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower
>> was probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for
>> effectively running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to
>> fill the job, look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?
>>
>> I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck
>> gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and
>> yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into
>> legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an
>> ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they
>> could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like
>> Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the money after
>> paying all that hush money.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Patrick Leary 
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>>
>> Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality,
>> factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president
>> today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.
>>
>> Patrick Leary
>> Telrad
>> On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:
>> Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked
>> tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.
>> Ford  and Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different
>> story. He wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.
>> There is only one way to preside and that is to work  with the other side
>> some.  That's when he had to give up his far right position some  Nixon is
>> the only conservative that had any bearing on this country in the last 50
>> years.  I should say conservative bearing!
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Yes, one.


 On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

> You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last
> 50 years right?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
> wrote:
>
>> Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that
>> logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this
>> country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, 
>> actually
>> it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with 
>> the
>> debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the
>> stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written 
>> in
>> the first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that the majority 
>> of
>> the population don't want because we were lied to about it.  And then the
>> RINOs bailing out their favorite companies after they got their 
>> kickbacks?
>> And this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.
>> Notice I didn't say Democrat or Republican?  It's libtards! These folk 
>> have
>> no concern for their country or their fellow man.  All they want is to 
>> line
>> their pockets and control people!  Call me rude if you like!  I haven't
>> even cracked the door on the rudeness these people have done to all of us
>> including many generations to follow us!  And,  while were at it, how 
>> about
>> all of those babies that will never have an opportunity to join us?  
>> What a

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Chuck McCown]

I didn’t know there was an underground route.  We just braved the traffic.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 11:26 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

I was talking about trying to make it across the traffic circle instead of 
underneath it. Anything with 6 kids is a challenge...even having more kids.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Paris, dragging 6 little kids.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:39 AM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

  The one in Paris? Not near the life threatening thrill. Maybe you are talking 
about another one?

  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Try walking to the obelisk...  
Holy crap talk about a risk.   

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 12:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Last time I was in Paris my wife got impatient trying to find a way over to 
the Arc de Triomphe and wanted to just run across the circle. I am all for 
risky thrill seeking but not certain death. 

For those that haven't been there, it is in the middle of a traffic circle  
with 12 large roads going in and out and the road must be 40 or 50 yards wide. 
Traffic whirs around that thing like a cyclotron. 


My wife is also 5 foot and has the legs of a wobly two year old. We did 
eventually find the underground tunnels. I told her "Look at all those people, 
there must be 200 hundred of them. I can promise you out of that many at least 
20 would still be strewn across the pavement with parts missing. There has to 
be a tunnel around here somewhere."

The two nearest were hidden by those annoying street performers. I really 
don't like those people. I did get to see a guy on a moped with a bag of 
groceries and a cigarette in his mouth cut off a huge truck that I could swear 
he cleaned of the front left bumper of as he skittered by.



On Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 10:53 AM Patrick Leary  
wrote:

  It’s mesmerizing to watch the scooter traffic in Rome. A bit like red 
blood cells jostling around in the blood stream towards some destination.



  Patrick Leary, Telrad

  727-501-3735



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 11:14 AM
  To: af@afmug.com


  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings




  I love Puerto Rico because you don’t signal on lane changes on the 
freeways.  



  (Worst place I ever drove was Athens, Manhattan is a country road by 
comparison).

  From: Patrick Leary 

  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:36 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings



  I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege to 
drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result, German 
drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on the right. 
You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or even middle 
lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their indicator. And of 
course, Germans respect that government has a job and is not the enemy, so they 
don’t reject taxation for infrastructure. As a result, Germany has MUCH better 
roads than we do. Seriously. The German autobahn is twice as thick and better 
banked. To be fair, we have thousands of miles more of Interstate, so we do 
have a harder job. Still. Also, you can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has 
strict inspection rules, that even include aesthetics, but the emphasis is on 
safe functioning. 



  We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have much larger 
distances and lots of backroads and farms and country roads. I think we don’t 
need the same standard of road, but we do need roads that are well-maintained, 
and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should focus less on 
cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here in FL are nationally famous for 
bullshit speed traps – e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on ticketing bad drivers.



  Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the U.S. and Germany. 
A German won’t say, “I’m driving the speed limit so screw you, go around.” 
Germans, like other Europeans, understand they have a civic responsibility. Too 
many Americans reject civic responsibility as being “against freedom” and 
“un-American.” The closest parallel in the U.S. to how the Germans behave is 
the Mormon population, which places a very high premium on civic 
responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body politic as one 
functioning unit. The concept of the Hive (ergo, Chuck’s Beehive).



  -  Patrick



  On Behalf Of Mathew Howard


  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:32 PM
  To: af 


  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Ken Hohhof]

Yeah, stop that, you’re scaring me.

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 12:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

I just want everyone to note that I was the adult this time

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

  Agreed, it's been a fun discussion, but it would be best to stop before we go 
too far and people start leaving the list. Perhaps we should have another list 
for some of these off topic discussions...


  And on that note, I'll shut up.


  On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

I like arguments, heated ones are the best, but this topic has the 
potential to derail what has always been a very good forum for this industry. 
May I recommend it be closed before somebody gets their panties in a bunch and 
this joint ends up like a dslreports forum?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Patrick Leary  
wrote:

  ++ 1000

  Patrick Leary


  Patrick Leary
  Telrad
  On Oct 12, 2015 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability), 
ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower was 
probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for effectively 
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, 
look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?

  I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck 
gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and yes 
it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but 
the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.  People still 
remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they could bring Newt Gingrich or 
Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and 
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush money.


  From: Patrick Leary 
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

  Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, 
factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president 
today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

  Patrick Leary
  Telrad
  On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:

  Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked 
tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  
and Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He 
wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one 
way to preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he 
had to give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that 
had any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say 
conservative bearing! 

  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...




Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin  
wrote:

  Yes, one. 


  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the 
last 50 years right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"  
wrote:

  Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse 
that logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this 
country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually 
it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the 
debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the 
stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written in the 
first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the 
population don't want because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs 
bailing out their favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this 
isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't 
say Democrat or Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for 
their country or their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and 
control people!  Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on 
the rudeness these people have done to all of us 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Christopher Tyler]

I think the largest problem people have with licenses and registration is that 
the government then has a list of everyone who legally owns a firearm and 
--could-- the use that list to target individuals at some later date. Also 
there is the problem of the government releasing that information willingly or 
unwillingly not to the public so that criminals then have a list of people who 
do and do not have firearms.

-- 
Christopher Tyler 
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE 
Total Highspeed Internet Services 
417.851.1107

- Original Message -
From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 11:45:57 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Your points are largely good ones.

Requiring a license for guns as we do for handling dangerous chemicals, 
driving cars, flying aircraft, etc would not impede on your ability to 
defend yourself from wildlife, or criminals, or even to participate in a 
militia. and it would not be a completely crazy thing.  Presumably, 
if you see a need to have a gun, then you'd get a license.

With that said, I disagree with all current gun control legislation for 
one reason:  The constitution says my right to keep and bear arms shall 
not be infringed.  They get around it with tax laws and interstate 
commerce regulations.  If it's that easy to circumvent the constitution 
then why do we have it?  Who says they couldn't put a tax on public 
gatherings or regulate the interstate distribution of media?  Thereby 
circumventing the first amendment without having to challenge it directly.

IMO any gun control laws that aren't preceded by a constitutional 
amendment should never have happened and the supreme court should not 
have upheld them.


On 10/12/2015 11:39 AM, Dan Petermann wrote:
> Its is the person, not the gun.
>
> Any number of household chemicals can be used to maim or kill. There are 
> gasses, poisons and explosives that can be manufactured from legal to 
> purchase chemicals.
>
> The gun gets singled out because it it easy to conceal and has that 
> �scary� factor.
>
> Should we outlaw baseball bats? How about knives? Maybe only "assault 
> knives�, you know, those scary looking Rambo ones.
>
> Cars are a highly lethal weapon. I could kill more people with a car that I 
> ever could hope to with an assault weapon. Football game and an monster truck 
> anyone?
>
> Any farmer has the capability to build a bomb like Timothy McVeigh, outlaw 
> farmers?
>
> Any mentally ill person (and lets face it, anyone bent on murder is mentally 
> ill), will find a way. This is why I have a problem with the insanity 
> defense. You are not guilty by reason of insanity, you are guilty, but insane.
>
> Almost any object is a potential weapon.
>
> I live in an area where there is dangerous wildlife. Am I to be disarmed so I 
> am unable to defend myself? There are grizzly bears, black bears, mountain 
> lions, bob cats, wolves, & coyotes, all have been spotted fairly close to my 
> house. So, because some people abuse a right, I am to give up mine?
>
> Should we abandon the 1st amendment also because someone might yell fire in a 
> crowded theater?
>
> Lets control all speech because some people might misuse it.
>
> Hmm, lets see, religion is a major contributor to problems of all kinds, lets 
> let the state decide what religion we can be a member of.
>
> Other people call for the whole sale slaughter of others, so lets let the 
> government decide what speech is allowable.
>
> I get really offended by what is written in the press so lets control that 
> also.
>
> Large groups of people assembled for a specific purpose frightens me so lets 
> outlaw that too.
>
> How about the third amendment? Soldiers shouldn�t have to live in barracks, 
> lets quarter them in your house.
>
> 4th? That pesky need for warrants, think of how many criminals could be put 
> away if it wasn�t for the 4th amendment!
>
> I would go on but I think you get the point. Just because someone might get 
> injured, or afraid, or offended, or even have good intentions, it doesn�t 
> give them a right to take away my rights.
>
> The right to defend one�s self is the most basic right of all.
>
>
> On Oct 9, 2015, at 10:21 PM, Stefan Englhardt  wrote:
>
>> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in 
>> US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the statistics 
>> for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be very 
>> restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club and 
>> leave the weapon there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is silly 
>> esp. with kids around.
>> You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I 
>> need a weapon I call for police or security.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Patrick Leary]

...and drumroll...

During Reagan's presidency, 240 Americans were killed in the Lebanon Marine 
barrack's bombing. His response? Did he go to war? No, he pulled out of Lebanon.

Now imagine the apoplexy that would ensue if this had happened under Obama and 
he cut and ran...The "Freedom Caucus" would be fomenting Red State riots 
demanding Obama turn the region into glass.

It's truly annoying debating politics with people who have clearly fed 
themselves off pundit-prepared diet of myths and sound bites.

Patrick Leary

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 12, 2015 12:48 PM, Patrick Leary  wrote:
After his presidency Reagan sent letters to Republican politicians urging them 
to support the assault rifle ban, which helped its passage in the early Clinton 
years.

As president, Reagan famously enabled amnesty for millions of undocumented 
immigrants.

As president, Reagan raised taxes (after he had cut them), and if course 
routinely supported raising the debt limit
Most forgotten was that Reagan was an optimist and a fast friend of Dem House 
Speaker Tip O'Neill, with whom he worked in numerous compromises.

What Reagan was not was a vicious ideologue or zealot who refused to even 
engage the opposition. Today's "Republicans" can't even be seen shaking the 
President's hand for fear the nihilists will primary them.

Patrick Leary

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 12, 2015 11:23 AM, Rory Conaway  wrote:
Reagan was a liberal early on in life but he definitely wasn’t a liberal by the 
time he ran for the Presidency and neither were his policies.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 8:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Yes, one.


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 years 
right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
> wrote:
Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that logic???  
How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this country in the 
past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually it's so far beyond 
rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the debt, the credit 
ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that 
cover laws that should not have ever been written in the first place.  Or, the 
stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the population don't want 
because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs bailing out their 
favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this isn't even the tip 
of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't say Democrat or 
Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for their country or 
their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and control people!  
Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on the rudeness 
these people have done to all of us including many generations to follow us!  
And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will never have an 
opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were not in 
agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in "Certain 
Inalienable Rights" with government here only 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

I was talking about trying to make it across the traffic circle instead of
underneath it. Anything with 6 kids is a challenge...even having more kids.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Paris, dragging 6 little kids.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:39 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
> The one in Paris? Not near the life threatening thrill. Maybe you are
> talking about another one?
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Try walking to the obelisk...
>> Holy crap talk about a risk.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2015 12:54 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>>
>> Last time I was in Paris my wife got impatient trying to find a way over
>> to the Arc de Triomphe and wanted to just run across the circle. I am all
>> for risky thrill seeking but not certain death.
>>
>> For those that haven't been there, it is in the middle of a traffic
>> circle  with 12 large roads going in and out and the road must be 40 or 50
>> yards wide. Traffic whirs around that thing like a cyclotron.
>>
>> My wife is also 5 foot and has the legs of a wobly two year old. We did
>> eventually find the underground tunnels. I told her "Look at all those
>> people, there must be 200 hundred of them. I can promise you out of that
>> many at least 20 would still be strewn across the pavement with parts
>> missing. There has to be a tunnel around here somewhere."
>>
>> The two nearest were hidden by those annoying street performers. I really
>> don't like those people. I did get to see a guy on a moped with a bag of
>> groceries and a cigarette in his mouth cut off a huge truck that I could
>> swear he cleaned of the front left bumper of as he skittered by.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 10:53 AM Patrick Leary 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s mesmerizing to watch the scooter traffic in Rome. A bit like red
>>> blood cells jostling around in the blood stream towards some destination.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick Leary, Telrad
>>>
>>> 727-501-3735
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2015 11:14 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I love Puerto Rico because you don’t signal on lane changes on the
>>> freeways.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (Worst place I ever drove was Athens, Manhattan is a country road by
>>> comparison).
>>>
>>> *From:* Patrick Leary 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:36 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege
>>> to drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result,
>>> German drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on
>>> the right. You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or
>>> even middle lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their
>>> indicator. And of course, Germans respect that government has a job and is
>>> not the enemy, so they don’t reject taxation for infrastructure. As a
>>> result, Germany has MUCH better roads than we do. Seriously. The German
>>> autobahn is twice as thick and better banked. To be fair, we have thousands
>>> of miles more of Interstate, so we do have a harder job. Still. Also, you
>>> can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has strict inspection rules, that
>>> even include aesthetics, but the emphasis is on safe functioning.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have much larger
>>> distances and lots of backroads and farms and country roads. I think we
>>> don’t need the same standard of road, but we do need roads that are
>>> well-maintained, and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should
>>> focus less on cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here in FL are
>>> nationally famous for bullshit speed traps – e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on
>>> ticketing bad drivers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the U.S. and
>>> Germany. A German won’t say, “I’m driving the speed limit so screw you, go
>>> around.” Germans, like other Europeans, understand they have a civic
>>> responsibility. Too many Americans reject civic responsibility as being
>>> “against freedom” and “un-American.” The closest parallel in the U.S. to
>>> how the Germans behave is the Mormon population, which places a very high
>>> premium on civic responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body
>>> politic as one functioning unit. The concept of the Hive (ergo, Chuck’s
>>> Beehive).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -  Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>>>
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Politicians (was...)

[Jason McKemie]

I've read a couple articles that compare Trump to Berlusconi, pretty scary
stuff.

On Monday, October 12, 2015, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Trump’s finger on the button.
> Tells Putin “You’re Fired”...
>
> (Not my idea of the ideal apocalypse).
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:18 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
> It could always be worse.
>
>
> On 10/12/2015 12:16 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>
> He can’t be influenced by other peoples money.  Not a bad thing.  Again,
> could he be worse than what we have?
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Mathew
> Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 9:13 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
>
>
> So... you're saying we should elect Trump? He does run a large
> organization, afterall :P
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
>
> Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability),
> ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower
> was probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for
> effectively running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to
> fill the job, look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?
>
>
>
> I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck
> gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and
> yes it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into
> legislation, but the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an
> ideologue.  People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they
> could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like
> Hastert will avoid jail time, and he could probably use the money after
> paying all that hush money.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Patrick Leary
> 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
>
>
>
> Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality,
> factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president
> today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.
>
>
>
> Patrick Leary
>
> Telrad
>
> On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin <
> 
> wireless...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked
> tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.
> Ford  and Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different
> story. He wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.
> There is only one way to preside and that is to work  with the other side
> some.  That's when he had to give up his far right position some  Nixon is
> the only conservative that had any bearing on this country in the last 50
> years.  I should say conservative bearing!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
> Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin <
> 
> wireless...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> Yes, one.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman <
> 
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
> > wrote:
>
> You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50
> years right?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" <
> 
> wireless...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that
> logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this
> country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually
> it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the
> debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the
> stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written in
> the first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Adam Moffett]

Nicely done.  You can have my grownup card, I don't want it anymore.


On 10/12/2015 1:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

I just want everyone to note that I was the adult this time

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Mathew Howard > wrote:


Agreed, it's been a fun discussion, but it would be best to stop
before we go too far and people start leaving the list. Perhaps we
should have another list for some of these off topic discussions...

And on that note, I'll shut up.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> wrote:

I like arguments, heated ones are the best, but this topic has
the potential to derail what has always been a very good forum
for this industry. May I recommend it be closed before
somebody gets their panties in a bunch and this joint ends up
like a dslreports forum?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Patrick Leary
>
wrote:

++ 1000

Patrick Leary


Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 12, 2015 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:
Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or
likeability), ignoring that the primary job is to run the
executive branch. Eisenhower was probably the last POTUS
who came to the job with credentials for effectively
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t
grow to fill the job, look at Reagan and JFK.  But
seriously, Ben Carson?
I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what
poor schmuck gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want
to make it about ideology, and yes it’s about getting the
ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but the
Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.
People still remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill. Hey,
they could bring Newt Gingrich or Denny Hastert out of
retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush
money.
*From:* Patrick Leary 
*Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc
Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of
reality, factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his
memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd be calling him
a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.
Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin
> wrote:
Nixon was conservative, but with him  trying to cover up
his crooked tail, we never saw much of anything from him. 
He was truly ineffective.  Ford and Bush??  Hahaha. Not

conservative RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high. There
is only one way to preside and that is to work  with the
other side some. That's when he had to give up his far
right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that
had any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I
should say conservative bearing!
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:

Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin
>
wrote:

Yes, one.
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians
and presidents in the last 50 years right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Chuck McCown]

Don’t worry, it is till the sober part of the day...

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 11:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Yeah, stop that, you’re scaring me.

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 12:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

I just want everyone to note that I was the adult this time

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

  Agreed, it's been a fun discussion, but it would be best to stop before we go 
too far and people start leaving the list. Perhaps we should have another list 
for some of these off topic discussions...


  And on that note, I'll shut up.


  On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

I like arguments, heated ones are the best, but this topic has the 
potential to derail what has always been a very good forum for this industry. 
May I recommend it be closed before somebody gets their panties in a bunch and 
this joint ends up like a dslreports forum?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Patrick Leary  
wrote:

  ++ 1000

  Patrick Leary


  Patrick Leary
  Telrad
  On Oct 12, 2015 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability), 
ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower was 
probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for effectively 
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, 
look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?

  I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck 
gets to be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and yes 
it’s about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but 
the Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.  People still 
remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they could bring Newt Gingrich or 
Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and 
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush money.


  From: Patrick Leary 
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

  Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, 
factually ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president 
today, you'd be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

  Patrick Leary
  Telrad
  On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:

  Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked 
tail, we never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  
and Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He 
wasn't perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one 
way to preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he 
had to give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that 
had any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say 
conservative bearing! 

  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...




Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin  
wrote:

  Yes, one. 


  On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the 
last 50 years right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin"  
wrote:

  Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse 
that logic???  How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this 
country in the past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually 
it's so far beyond rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the 
debt, the credit ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the 
stupidity of laws that cover laws that should not have ever been written in the 
first place.  Or, the stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the 
population don't want because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs 
bailing out their favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this 
isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't 
say Democrat or Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for 
their country or their fellow man.  All they 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Patrick Leary]

Happily, I must board the plane, sparing others and myself from more 
ill-considered contributions to this thread.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 12, 2015 1:00 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm  
wrote:
I like arguments, heated ones are the best, but this topic has the potential to 
derail what has always been a very good forum for this industry. May I 
recommend it be closed before somebody gets their panties in a bunch and this 
joint ends up like a dslreports forum?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Patrick Leary 
> wrote:
++ 1000

Patrick Leary


Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 12, 2015 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof > 
wrote:
Everyone wants to elect a President based on ideology (or likeability), 
ignoring that the primary job is to run the executive branch.  Eisenhower was 
probably the last POTUS who came to the job with credentials for effectively 
running a giant organization.  Not saying someone can’t grow to fill the job, 
look at Reagan and JFK.  But seriously, Ben Carson?

I see the same mistake in the current contest to see what poor schmuck gets to 
be Speaker of the House.  They want to make it about ideology, and yes it’s 
about getting the ideology of the majority caucus into legislation, but the 
Speaker should be a get-stuff-done type, not an ideologue.  People still 
remember Sam Rayburn and Tip O’Neill.  Hey, they could bring Newt Gingrich or 
Denny Hastert out of retirement.  Looks like Hastert will avoid jail time, and 
he could probably use the money after paying all that hush money.


From: Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

Your vision of Reagan is of a cartoon character, devoid of reality, factually 
ignorant, and it vastly insults his memory. Were Reagan president today, you'd 
be calling him a "libtard." You are clearly under 40 years old.

Patrick Leary
Telrad
On Oct 11, 2015 5:47 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Nixon was conservative, but  with him  trying to cover up his crooked tail, we 
never saw much of anything from him.  He was truly ineffective.  Ford  and 
Bush??  Hahaha.  Not conservative  RINO.  Reagan, a different story. He wasn't 
perfect, but in his heart he held conservatism high.  There is only one way to 
preside and that is to work  with the other side some.  That's when he had to 
give up his far right position some  Nixon is the only conservative that had 
any bearing on this country in the last 50 years.  I should say conservative 
bearing!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
Nixon Ford Reagan Bush...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Yes, one.


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

You know we've had conservative politicians and presidents in the last 50 years 
right?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 11, 2015 3:52 PM, "Philip Rankin" 
> wrote:
Since many of you are calling me rude, how about we just reverse that logic???  
How about all of the damage the liberal logic has done to this country in the 
past say 50 years  Is that not rude?  You know, actually it's so far beyond 
rude, that we can't measure it anymore.  Start with the debt, the credit 
ratings of the country, the backdoor payoff deals, the stupidity of laws that 
cover laws that should not have ever been written in the first place.  Or, the 
stupid recent healthcare law that the majority of the population don't want 
because we were lied to about it.  And then the RINOs bailing out their 
favorite companies after they got their kickbacks?  And this isn't even the tip 
of the iceberg. It's all liberal stupidity.  Notice I didn't say Democrat or 
Republican?  It's libtards! These folk have no concern for their country or 
their fellow man.  All they want is to line their pockets and control people!  
Call me rude if you like!  I haven't even cracked the door on the rudeness 
these people have done to all of us including many generations to follow us!  
And,  while were at it, how about all of those babies that will never have an 
opportunity to join us?  What a sickening shame!  No, Travesty!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
Haven't made my point yet Lewis.  But, saw enough of those that were not in 
agreement with you in the thread to know that they don't believe in "Certain 

Re: [AFMUG] [offlist] Alvarion BreezeMax Extreme SM connecting to PMP320 AP?

[Adam Moffett]

Ben,

We have 5 or 6 of the Extreme base stations that were taken down to 
upgrade to a Compact 1000.


It was part of some upgrade promo or something like that, so I'm not 
sure if we can sell them or if they have to go back to the vendor. I'll 
check on that.

I'm also pretty sure I can't ship anything today with it being Columbus day.

If we *can* sell them, would you be interested?

Thanks,
Adam




On 10/12/2015 10:48 AM, Ben Royer wrote:
Has anyone successfully worked with getting the Alvarion BreezeMax 
Extreme SM to connect to the PMP320 AP?  More specifically, we had two 
Alvarion AP’s fail over the weekend, and are working to replace them 
with PMP320 AP’s. Since the SM’s are still Gemtek radios, we have got 
about half the SM’s to connect to the AP, but are still working to get 
management access to the SM’s.  If anyone has had experience with this 
particular setup, I’d be interested to know if there is a trick to 
getting the management access through the PMP320 AP.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net




avast! Antivirus : Outbound message 
clean.


Virus Database (VPS): 151011-0, 10/11/2015
Tested on: 10/12/2015 9:48:18 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2015 AVAST Software.

Re: [AFMUG] [offlist] Alvarion BreezeMax Extreme SM connecting to PMP320 AP?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

If you can locate the Gemtek load you can then get the moto load from
cambium to turn them into a 320. I dont know if you can load the moto load
into the alvarion radio

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Ben,
>
> We have 5 or 6 of the Extreme base stations that were taken down to
> upgrade to a Compact 1000.
>
> It was part of some upgrade promo or something like that, so I'm not sure
> if we can sell them or if they have to go back to the vendor.  I'll check
> on that.
> I'm also pretty sure I can't ship anything today with it being Columbus
> day.
>
> If we *can* sell them, would you be interested?
>
> Thanks,
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> On 10/12/2015 10:48 AM, Ben Royer wrote:
>
> Has anyone successfully worked with getting the Alvarion BreezeMax Extreme
> SM to connect to the PMP320 AP?  More specifically, we had two Alvarion
> AP’s fail over the weekend, and are working to replace them with PMP320
> AP’s.  Since the SM’s are still Gemtek radios, we have got about half the
> SM’s to connect to the AP, but are still working to get management access
> to the SM’s.  If anyone has had experience with this particular setup, I’d
> be interested to know if there is a trick to getting the management access
> through the PMP320 AP.
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>
>
> --
>
> avast! Antivirus : Outbound message
> clean.
>
> Virus Database (VPS): 151011-0, 10/11/2015
> Tested on: 10/12/2015 9:48:18 AM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2015 AVAST Software.
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Alvarion BreezeMax Extreme SM connecting to PMP320 AP?

[Adam Moffett]

I guess this got drowned in political discussion.

The 3000SU is the same thing as the CSM320 and supposedly people have 
gotten those working on the PMP320 AP.  If you're working with 6000 and 
7000's you might be in uncharted waters.



On 10/12/2015 10:48 AM, Ben Royer wrote:
Has anyone successfully worked with getting the Alvarion BreezeMax 
Extreme SM to connect to the PMP320 AP?  More specifically, we had two 
Alvarion AP’s fail over the weekend, and are working to replace them 
with PMP320 AP’s. Since the SM’s are still Gemtek radios, we have got 
about half the SM’s to connect to the AP, but are still working to get 
management access to the SM’s.  If anyone has had experience with this 
particular setup, I’d be interested to know if there is a trick to 
getting the management access through the PMP320 AP.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net




avast! Antivirus : Outbound message 
clean.


Virus Database (VPS): 151011-0, 10/11/2015
Tested on: 10/12/2015 9:48:18 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2015 AVAST Software.

[AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Ken Hohhof]

Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?  Any 
gotchas?


Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all gigabit, 
plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some environments. 
Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.


Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high failure 
rate on CRS109? 

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Josh Luthman]

2011
20 is the generation
11 is port count (some have SFP)

They kind of did away with that convention with the four digit boards :(

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 12, 2015 12:30 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would think
> if that is the case the 2011 would be beefier
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?
>> Any gotchas?
>>
>> Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all
>> gigabit, plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some
>> environments. Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.
>>
>> Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high
>> failure rate on CRS109?
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[Josh Luthman]

Distance?  Antennas?  Band?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 12, 2015 12:48 PM, "Justin Marshall"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
>
> UBNT’s link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power…
>
>
>
> What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> just...@pdmnet.net
>
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Phil Bolt

[Chuck McCown]

Anyone know what he is up to these days?

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[Justin Marshall]

UBNT AirFiber 5x Dishes (5G30-S45)
6.57 Miles
5225 / 50Mhz


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 3:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc


Distance?  Antennas?  Band?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 12, 2015 12:48 PM, "Justin Marshall" 
> wrote:
Hi,

Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
UBNT’s link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power…

What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?

Thanks,
just...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Sterling Jacobson]

Yeah, I ignore the model numbers in comparisons.

Basically if you are switching only, the CRS are ok.
If you are routing, you need CPU power for connection tracking etc.
So look at the CPU(s) of each model instead.

The cheaper CRS units switching chips will do full line speed and high 
aggregate as long as the CPU doesn’t have to touch packets.
Once you implement anything where the CPU is involved inspecting packets 
throughput drops dramatically IMO.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

Can’t compare CRS and RB model numbers.  I think the processor and memory specs 
are similar if not identical.

Not sure the gigabit ports are a big deal, it just always seems a mess deciding 
what to plug in where on a 2011.  It’s like deciding which GOP candidates are 
relegated to the junior varsity debate.

Residential users don’t even seem to want wired ports anymore, although 
businesses still do.


From: That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 2:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would think if 
that is the case the 2011 would be beefier

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof 
> wrote:
Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?  Any 
gotchas?

Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all gigabit, 
plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some environments. 
Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.

Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high failure 
rate on CRS109?



--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[Justin Marshall]

Is it this one? https://airlink.ubnt.com/

I think that one only understands AirMax M/AC...

Worst part is, the link we were putting up was registered solid at -61, then 
the Master rebooted for some reason
Now they won't link up again...
Stuck on Beaconing/Registering


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 4:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

Not to hijack this thread, but also, is there a Airfiber 24HD specific link 
calculator?
The link I found didn't seem to understand Airfiber 24GHz radios, only the 5Ghz.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Marshall
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

Hi,

Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
UBNT's link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power...

What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?

Thanks,
just...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Ken Hohhof]

But I think RB2011 and CRS109/125 have pretty much the same CPU and memory, not 
sure why one the packet processing power would be different between them.

In your case with fiber, if you are delivering gigabit Internet to customers, 
either would probably be underpowered.  Oh, and the WiFi won’t do gigabit 
either.


From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 3:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

Yeah, I ignore the model numbers in comparisons.

 

Basically if you are switching only, the CRS are ok.

If you are routing, you need CPU power for connection tracking etc.

So look at the CPU(s) of each model instead.

 

The cheaper CRS units switching chips will do full line speed and high 
aggregate as long as the CPU doesn’t have to touch packets.

Once you implement anything where the CPU is involved inspecting packets 
throughput drops dramatically IMO.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

 

Can’t compare CRS and RB model numbers.  I think the processor and memory specs 
are similar if not identical.

 

Not sure the gigabit ports are a big deal, it just always seems a mess deciding 
what to plug in where on a 2011.  It’s like deciding which GOP candidates are 
relegated to the junior varsity debate.

 

Residential users don’t even seem to want wired ports anymore, although 
businesses still do.

 

 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 

Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 2:30 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

 

Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would think if 
that is the case the 2011 would be beefier

 

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?  Any 
gotchas?

  Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all gigabit, 
plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some environments. 
Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.

  Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high failure 
rate on CRS109? 





 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would think
if that is the case the 2011 would be beefier

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?
> Any gotchas?
>
> Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all
> gigabit, plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some
> environments. Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.
>
> Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high
> failure rate on CRS109?
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Mathew Howard]

Not really, no. Not even within the same series... the 1100 is much beefier
than the 1200, for example and both are PPC based. I'm not sure the model
numbers really mean much of anything.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:30 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would think
> if that is the case the 2011 would be beefier
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?
>> Any gotchas?
>>
>> Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all
>> gigabit, plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some
>> environments. Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.
>>
>> Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high
>> failure rate on CRS109?
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Ken Hohhof]

Can’t compare CRS and RB model numbers.  I think the processor and memory specs 
are similar if not identical.

Not sure the gigabit ports are a big deal, it just always seems a mess deciding 
what to plug in where on a 2011.  It’s like deciding which GOP candidates are 
relegated to the junior varsity debate.

Residential users don’t even seem to want wired ports anymore, although 
businesses still do.


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 2:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would think if 
that is the case the 2011 would be beefier

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?  Any 
gotchas?

  Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all gigabit, 
plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some environments. 
Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.

  Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high failure 
rate on CRS109? 






-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[Sterling Jacobson]

Not to hijack this thread, but also, is there a Airfiber 24HD specific link 
calculator?
The link I found didn't seem to understand Airfiber 24GHz radios, only the 5Ghz.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Marshall
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

Hi,

Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
UBNT's link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power...

What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?

Thanks,
just...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[Joe Novak]

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF5X-Link-Calculator-Updated-Download/td-p/1255928

https://drive.google.com/a/lrnet1.com/file/d/0B9qyHlZtQEgVcUlGN2ZKYldrQzg/view

Worked very well for me. My 6.5 mile path is at a EIRP of 47dBm with a -50
to -51 at 8x in 20mhz. Using 5G30-S45 on both sides.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Justin Marshall  wrote:

> Is it this one? https://airlink.ubnt.com/
>
>
>
> I think that one only understands AirMax M/AC…
>
>
>
> Worst part is, the link we were putting up was registered solid at -61,
> then the Master rebooted for some reason….
>
> Now they won’t link up again…
>
> Stuck on Beaconing/Registering….
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 4:16 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> Not to hijack this thread, but also, is there a Airfiber 24HD specific
> link calculator?
>
> The link I found didn’t seem to understand Airfiber 24GHz radios, only the
> 5Ghz.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Justin Marshall
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 1:49 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
>
> UBNT’s link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power…
>
>
>
> What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> just...@pdmnet.net
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[Justin Marshall]

Probably a dumb question, but…
How are you getting to 49?

Mine maxes out at 44 on 5225…


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 4:16 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

Expect better than this... Distance is a bit further, but this is a 2' Rocket 
dish at one end and a 25dbi Force110 dish at the other. You're going to be 
limited to 49db EIRP at 5225.

[cid:image001.jpg@01D1050F.710F2000]
​.


On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
UBNT AirFiber 5x Dishes (5G30-S45)
6.57 Miles
5225 / 50Mhz


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 3:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc


Distance?  Antennas?  Band?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 12, 2015 12:48 PM, "Justin Marshall" 
> wrote:
Hi,

Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
UBNT’s link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power…

What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?

Thanks,
just...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe

[Jeremy]

We always called those 'hit pins'.  I like them, but it sucks that you can
never get them out without drilling them out.  I prefer to set expanding
anchors and then bolt to them.  That way you can always remove the nut if
needed.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> I am really fond of these concrete anchors that have a lead/tin alloy
> shell with a concrete nail in the center.They have a flat round head and a
> skinny base. Once you pound them in you can't get them out. Very fast to
> install. They are shaped kind of like a round headed Phillips screw with a
> nail through the center. Damn I wish I could remember the name. Kind of
> like the below but bigger and beefier.
> http://www.confast.com/products/metal-hit-anchor.aspx
>
> I always enjoy using the Ramset as well. Probably the fastest but it takes
> two people on a vertical surface. One to hold and the other to set. Its the
> closest you can get to being on the firing range and still working.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Tim Reichhart <
> timreichh...@hometowncable.net> wrote:
>
>> Ok what can I use to attach the unstrut?
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe
>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Date: 2015/10/12 17:29:34
>>
>> Unistrut
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Tim Reichhart
>> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:26 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Best way to mount 2 1/2 emt pipe
>>
>> What's the best away to mount an 2 1/2 in emt 10ft pipe to concrete grain
>> silo?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[Mathew Howard]

Not in this case, no. the allowable conducted tx power stays the same (or
close) when you go to a bigger antenna, so the EIRP goes up. It's because
of how the new out of band emmisions rules work.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Justin Marshall  wrote:

> I would think if you increase the dbi of the antennae, it would lower the
> EIRP?
>
>
>
> Been a long day, maybe I have that backwards?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 5:38 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> Do you have the antenna size set right? You should be able to get to 49 or
> 50 with it set to 30dbi. if it's set to 23dbi (the minimum/default, I
> think) it will limit you to 44... but that isn't going to change the actual
> output, since 21dbm conducted TX power is as high as they'll go in UNII-1.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
>
> Probably a dumb question, but…
>
> How are you getting to 49?
>
>
>
> Mine maxes out at 44 on 5225…
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 4:16 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> Expect better than this... Distance is a bit further, but this is a 2'
> Rocket dish at one end and a 25dbi Force110 dish at the other. You're going
> to be limited to 49db EIRP at 5225.
>
>
>
> ​.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
>
> UBNT AirFiber 5x Dishes (5G30-S45)
>
> 6.57 Miles
>
> 5225 / 50Mhz
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 3:52 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> Distance?  Antennas?  Band?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Oct 12, 2015 12:48 PM, "Justin Marshall"  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
>
> UBNT’s link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power…
>
>
>
> What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> just...@pdmnet.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 50 to 70 ft erection work

[Lewis Bergman]

Wow. Is that in some bizarre reason of Texas with little wind? Or are guy
writes in your future.

I am disappointed that I won't be able to buy you a Modelo in Vegas.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 6:19 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

>Time to move the dishes
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
>
> On Oct 12, 2015 4:29 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
> >
> > This is at 50 ft.
> >
> > Jaime Solorza
>

Re: [AFMUG] Alvarion BreezeMax Extreme SM connecting to PMP320 AP?

[Chris Fabien]

Telrad 6000s and 7000s work fine on a PMP320 AP on my network. Better than
greenpackets actually.
On Oct 12, 2015 2:29 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> I guess this got drowned in political discussion.
>
> The 3000SU is the same thing as the CSM320 and supposedly people have
> gotten those working on the PMP320 AP.  If you're working with 6000 and
> 7000's you might be in uncharted waters.
>
>
> On 10/12/2015 10:48 AM, Ben Royer wrote:
>
> Has anyone successfully worked with getting the Alvarion BreezeMax Extreme
> SM to connect to the PMP320 AP?  More specifically, we had two Alvarion
> AP’s fail over the weekend, and are working to replace them with PMP320
> AP’s.  Since the SM’s are still Gemtek radios, we have got about half the
> SM’s to connect to the AP, but are still working to get management access
> to the SM’s.  If anyone has had experience with this particular setup, I’d
> be interested to know if there is a trick to getting the management access
> through the PMP320 AP.
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>
>
> --
>
> avast! Antivirus : Outbound message
> clean.
>
> Virus Database (VPS): 151011-0, 10/11/2015
> Tested on: 10/12/2015 9:48:18 AM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2015 AVAST Software.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Adam Moffett]

If you think a Mikrotik is stupidly complex, then I wonder if you've 
ever used Cisco, Juniper, etc.


In any case, yeah it's an L3 switch and you get wire speed to each port 
when you use it as a switch, but the software gives it all the standard 
ROS capabilities, so if you just need a bunch of ports and don't need 
the speed, then it's ok as a router too.


On 10/12/2015 5:24 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
I believe it has software/features to simplify the L2 switching 
functionality, but the last time I checked, it was still as stupidly 
complex as it always has been.


On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:22 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
> wrote:


but isnt it different software?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Josh Baird > wrote:

Technically, a L3 switch -is- a router.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:19 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>
wrote:

Im not understanding something here, As I understand it
the CRS are layer 3 switches. But I see a lot of
communication wanting to use them as routers, this seems
counterproductive, is there a benefit I am not seeing?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Ken Hohhof
> wrote:

But I think RB2011 and CRS109/125 have pretty much the
same CPU and memory, not sure why one the packet
processing power would be different between them.
In your case with fiber, if you are delivering gigabit
Internet to customers, either would probably be
underpowered.  Oh, and the WiFi won’t do gigabit either.
*From:* Sterling Jacobson 
*Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 3:20 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs
RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

Yeah, I ignore the model numbers in comparisons.

Basically if you are switching only, the CRS are ok.

If you are routing, you need CPU power for connection
tracking etc.

So look at the CPU(s) of each model instead.

The cheaper CRS units switching chips will do full
line speed and high aggregate as long as the CPU
doesn’t have to touch packets.

Once you implement anything where the CPU is involved
inspecting packets throughput drops dramatically IMO.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 1:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs
RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

Can’t compare CRS and RB model numbers.  I think the
processor and memory specs are similar if not identical.

Not sure the gigabit ports are a big deal, it just
always seems a mess deciding what to plug in where on
a 2011.  It’s like deciding which GOP candidates are
relegated to the junior varsity debate.

Residential users don’t even seem to want wired ports
anymore, although businesses still do.

*From:*That One Guy /sarcasm


*Sent:*Monday, October 12, 2015 2:30 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs
RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs
2011, you would think if that is the case the 2011
would be beefier

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof
> wrote:

Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109
for WiFi SoHo routers?  Any gotchas?

Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports
but they are all gigabit, plus it seems to have a
fan which might be a negative in some
environments. Slightly different form factor, and
a little more expensive.

Also do I remember some people saying they were
experiencing a high failure rate on CRS109?



-- 


If you only see yourself as part of the team but you
don't see your team as part of yourself you have
already failed as part 

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[Justin Marshall]

I would think if you increase the dbi of the antennae, it would lower the EIRP?

Been a long day, maybe I have that backwards?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 5:38 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

Do you have the antenna size set right? You should be able to get to 49 or 50 
with it set to 30dbi. if it's set to 23dbi (the minimum/default, I think) it 
will limit you to 44... but that isn't going to change the actual output, since 
21dbm conducted TX power is as high as they'll go in UNII-1.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
Probably a dumb question, but…
How are you getting to 49?

Mine maxes out at 44 on 5225…


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 4:16 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

Expect better than this... Distance is a bit further, but this is a 2' Rocket 
dish at one end and a 25dbi Force110 dish at the other. You're going to be 
limited to 49db EIRP at 5225.

[cid:image001.jpg@01D10519.4DE4DA20]
​.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
UBNT AirFiber 5x Dishes (5G30-S45)
6.57 Miles
5225 / 50Mhz


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 3:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc


Distance?  Antennas?  Band?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 12, 2015 12:48 PM, "Justin Marshall" 
> wrote:
Hi,

Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
UBNT’s link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power…

What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?

Thanks,
just...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] 50 to 70 ft erection work

[Jaime Solorza]

Me too...I have lots of work this week.  I worked yesterday as well.

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 12, 2015 6:22 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> Wow. Is that in some bizarre reason of Texas with little wind? Or are guy
> writes in your future.
>
> I am disappointed that I won't be able to buy you a Modelo in Vegas.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 6:19 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>>Time to move the dishes
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>>
>> On Oct 12, 2015 4:29 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > This is at 50 ft.
>> >
>> > Jaime Solorza
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Mathew Howard]

I've never used a CRS, but... aren't they still running plain old Mikrotik
RouterOS? As far as I can tell from the specs, they're pretty much just an
RB2011 with extra ports.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> I believe it has software/features to simplify the L2 switching
> functionality, but the last time I checked, it was still as stupidly
> complex as it always has been.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:22 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> but isnt it different software?
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> Technically, a L3 switch -is- a router.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:19 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Im not understanding something here, As I understand it the CRS are
 layer 3 switches. But I see a lot of communication wanting to use them as
 routers, this seems counterproductive, is there a benefit I am not seeing?

 On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> But I think RB2011 and CRS109/125 have pretty much the same CPU and
> memory, not sure why one the packet processing power would be different
> between them.
>
> In your case with fiber, if you are delivering gigabit Internet to
> customers, either would probably be underpowered.  Oh, and the WiFi won’t
> do gigabit either.
>
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 3:20 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>
>
> Yeah, I ignore the model numbers in comparisons.
>
>
>
> Basically if you are switching only, the CRS are ok.
>
> If you are routing, you need CPU power for connection tracking etc.
>
> So look at the CPU(s) of each model instead.
>
>
>
> The cheaper CRS units switching chips will do full line speed and high
> aggregate as long as the CPU doesn’t have to touch packets.
>
> Once you implement anything where the CPU is involved inspecting
> packets throughput drops dramatically IMO.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 1:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>
>
>
> Can’t compare CRS and RB model numbers.  I think the processor and
> memory specs are similar if not identical.
>
>
>
> Not sure the gigabit ports are a big deal, it just always seems a mess
> deciding what to plug in where on a 2011.  It’s like deciding which GOP
> candidates are relegated to the junior varsity debate.
>
>
>
> Residential users don’t even seem to want wired ports anymore,
> although businesses still do.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 2:30 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>
>
>
> Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would
> think if that is the case the 2011 would be beefier
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo
> routers?  Any gotchas?
>
> Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all
> gigabit, plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some
> environments. Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.
>
> Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high
> failure rate on CRS109?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



 --
 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
 team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Im not understanding something here, As I understand it the CRS are layer 3
switches. But I see a lot of communication wanting to use them as routers,
this seems counterproductive, is there a benefit I am not seeing?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> But I think RB2011 and CRS109/125 have pretty much the same CPU and
> memory, not sure why one the packet processing power would be different
> between them.
>
> In your case with fiber, if you are delivering gigabit Internet to
> customers, either would probably be underpowered.  Oh, and the WiFi won’t
> do gigabit either.
>
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 3:20 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>
>
> Yeah, I ignore the model numbers in comparisons.
>
>
>
> Basically if you are switching only, the CRS are ok.
>
> If you are routing, you need CPU power for connection tracking etc.
>
> So look at the CPU(s) of each model instead.
>
>
>
> The cheaper CRS units switching chips will do full line speed and high
> aggregate as long as the CPU doesn’t have to touch packets.
>
> Once you implement anything where the CPU is involved inspecting packets
> throughput drops dramatically IMO.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 1:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>
>
>
> Can’t compare CRS and RB model numbers.  I think the processor and memory
> specs are similar if not identical.
>
>
>
> Not sure the gigabit ports are a big deal, it just always seems a mess
> deciding what to plug in where on a 2011.  It’s like deciding which GOP
> candidates are relegated to the junior varsity debate.
>
>
>
> Residential users don’t even seem to want wired ports anymore, although
> businesses still do.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 2:30 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>
>
>
> Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would think
> if that is the case the 2011 would be beefier
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?
> Any gotchas?
>
> Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all
> gigabit, plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some
> environments. Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.
>
> Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high
> failure rate on CRS109?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

but isnt it different software?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> Technically, a L3 switch -is- a router.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:19 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Im not understanding something here, As I understand it the CRS are layer
>> 3 switches. But I see a lot of communication wanting to use them as
>> routers, this seems counterproductive, is there a benefit I am not seeing?
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> But I think RB2011 and CRS109/125 have pretty much the same CPU and
>>> memory, not sure why one the packet processing power would be different
>>> between them.
>>>
>>> In your case with fiber, if you are delivering gigabit Internet to
>>> customers, either would probably be underpowered.  Oh, and the WiFi won’t
>>> do gigabit either.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 3:20 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, I ignore the model numbers in comparisons.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Basically if you are switching only, the CRS are ok.
>>>
>>> If you are routing, you need CPU power for connection tracking etc.
>>>
>>> So look at the CPU(s) of each model instead.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The cheaper CRS units switching chips will do full line speed and high
>>> aggregate as long as the CPU doesn’t have to touch packets.
>>>
>>> Once you implement anything where the CPU is involved inspecting packets
>>> throughput drops dramatically IMO.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 1:37 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can’t compare CRS and RB model numbers.  I think the processor and
>>> memory specs are similar if not identical.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure the gigabit ports are a big deal, it just always seems a mess
>>> deciding what to plug in where on a 2011.  It’s like deciding which GOP
>>> candidates are relegated to the junior varsity debate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Residential users don’t even seem to want wired ports anymore, although
>>> businesses still do.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 2:30 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would
>>> think if that is the case the 2011 would be beefier
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?
>>> Any gotchas?
>>>
>>> Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all
>>> gigabit, plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some
>>> environments. Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.
>>>
>>> Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high
>>> failure rate on CRS109?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Josh Baird]

I can configure basic L2 switching on a Cisco or Juniper switch in a
fraction of the time I can do it on a Mikrotik.  The way that Mikrotik
handles 802.1q stuff has always been crazy.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:31 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> If you think a Mikrotik is stupidly complex, then I wonder if you've ever
> used Cisco, Juniper, etc.
>
> In any case, yeah it's an L3 switch and you get wire speed to each port
> when you use it as a switch, but the software gives it all the standard ROS
> capabilities, so if you just need a bunch of ports and don't need the
> speed, then it's ok as a router too.
>
>
> On 10/12/2015 5:24 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> I believe it has software/features to simplify the L2 switching
> functionality, but the last time I checked, it was still as stupidly
> complex as it always has been.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:22 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> but isnt it different software?
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Josh Baird < 
>> joshba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Technically, a L3 switch -is- a router.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:19 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Im not understanding something here, As I understand it the CRS are
 layer 3 switches. But I see a lot of communication wanting to use them as
 routers, this seems counterproductive, is there a benefit I am not seeing?

 On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Ken Hohhof < 
 af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> But I think RB2011 and CRS109/125 have pretty much the same CPU and
> memory, not sure why one the packet processing power would be different
> between them.
>
> In your case with fiber, if you are delivering gigabit Internet to
> customers, either would probably be underpowered.  Oh, and the WiFi won’t
> do gigabit either.
>
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 3:20 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>
>
> Yeah, I ignore the model numbers in comparisons.
>
>
>
> Basically if you are switching only, the CRS are ok.
>
> If you are routing, you need CPU power for connection tracking etc.
>
> So look at the CPU(s) of each model instead.
>
>
>
> The cheaper CRS units switching chips will do full line speed and high
> aggregate as long as the CPU doesn’t have to touch packets.
>
> Once you implement anything where the CPU is involved inspecting
> packets throughput drops dramatically IMO.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 1:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>
>
>
> Can’t compare CRS and RB model numbers.  I think the processor and
> memory specs are similar if not identical.
>
>
>
> Not sure the gigabit ports are a big deal, it just always seems a mess
> deciding what to plug in where on a 2011.  It’s like deciding which GOP
> candidates are relegated to the junior varsity debate.
>
>
>
> Residential users don’t even seem to want wired ports anymore,
> although businesses still do.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 2:30 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>
>
>
> Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would
> think if that is the case the 2011 would be beefier
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof < 
> af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo
> routers?  Any gotchas?
>
> Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all
> gigabit, plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some
> environments. Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.
>
> Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high
> failure rate on CRS109?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



 --
 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
 team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but 

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[Justin Marshall]

Ok… I did not know that

I should probably read up on UNII/OOBE

Thanks for that explanation…


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 6:22 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

If we were hitting the EIRP limits, that would be true. but it isn't the EIRP 
limits that we're hitting, they're limited by the out of band emmisions. The 
EIRP limit in UNII-1 is technically 53dBm, but because of the OOBE limits, no 
radios that I'm aware of can actually hit that - they all have to keep the TX 
power below 21db or so to stay within the limits.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
Not in this case, no. the allowable conducted tx power stays the same (or 
close) when you go to a bigger antenna, so the EIRP goes up. It's because of 
how the new out of band emmisions rules work.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
I would think if you increase the dbi of the antennae, it would lower the EIRP?

Been a long day, maybe I have that backwards?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 5:38 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

Do you have the antenna size set right? You should be able to get to 49 or 50 
with it set to 30dbi. if it's set to 23dbi (the minimum/default, I think) it 
will limit you to 44... but that isn't going to change the actual output, since 
21dbm conducted TX power is as high as they'll go in UNII-1.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
Probably a dumb question, but…
How are you getting to 49?

Mine maxes out at 44 on 5225…


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 4:16 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

Expect better than this... Distance is a bit further, but this is a 2' Rocket 
dish at one end and a 25dbi Force110 dish at the other. You're going to be 
limited to 49db EIRP at 5225.

[cid:image001.jpg@01D1051F.AEA85ED0]
​.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
UBNT AirFiber 5x Dishes (5G30-S45)
6.57 Miles
5225 / 50Mhz


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 3:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc


Distance?  Antennas?  Band?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 12, 2015 12:48 PM, "Justin Marshall" 
> wrote:
Hi,

Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
UBNT’s link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power…

What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?

Thanks,
just...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] 50 to 70 ft erection work

[Jaime Solorza]

How was Ubiquiti show?

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 12, 2015 6:42 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Me too...I have lots of work this week.  I worked yesterday as well.
>
> Jaime Solorza
> On Oct 12, 2015 6:22 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
>> Wow. Is that in some bizarre reason of Texas with little wind? Or are guy
>> writes in your future.
>>
>> I am disappointed that I won't be able to buy you a Modelo in Vegas.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 6:19 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Time to move the dishes
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2015 4:29 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > This is at 50 ft.
>>> >
>>> > Jaime Solorza
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] 50 to 70 ft erection work

[Jaime Solorza]

I was at rehearsal working on two classic tunes...Tower of Power Your still
a Young man and Blood Sweat and Years You've Made Me So Very Happylots
of key bass lines on boththx

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 12, 2015 10:14 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

> You could've watched the live stream, like I did... :P
>
> Looks like they've got some interesting stuff coming. It will be
> interesting to see how the sunmax stuff is priced. I really want to know
> more about the new airfiber thing... it looks like they're putting up to
> four airfiber X on one antenna and doing up to 2gbps?
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Jaime Solorza  > wrote:
>
>> How was Ubiquiti show?
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> On Oct 12, 2015 6:42 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Me too...I have lots of work this week.  I worked yesterday as well.
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>> On Oct 12, 2015 6:22 PM, "Lewis Bergman" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Wow. Is that in some bizarre reason of Texas with little wind? Or are
 guy writes in your future.

 I am disappointed that I won't be able to buy you a Modelo in Vegas.

 On Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 6:19 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

>Time to move the dishes
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
>
> On Oct 12, 2015 4:29 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
> >
> > This is at 50 ft.
> >
> > Jaime Solorza
>

>

Re: [AFMUG] 50 to 70 ft erection work

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Sunmax website ? I did not make a note of it...

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Mathew Howard" 
To: "af" 
Subject: [AFMUG] 50 to 70 ft erection work
Date: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 9:14 PM

You could've watched the live stream, like I did :P

Looks like they've got some interesting stuff coming.. It will be interesting 
to see how the sunmax stuff is priced. I really want to know more about the new 
airfiber thing... it looks like they're putting up to four airfiber X on one 
antenna and doing up to 2gbps?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:
How was Ubiquiti show? 
Jaime Solorza
On Oct 12, 2015 6:42 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:Me 
too...I have lots of work this week.  I worked yesterday as well.  
Jaime Solorza
On Oct 12, 2015 6:22 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:Wow. 
Is that in some bizarre reason of Texas with little wind? Or are guy writes in 
your future.
I am disappointed that I won't be able to buy you a Modelo in Vegas.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 6:19 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:
   Time to move the dishes

Jaime Solorza

On Oct 12, 2015 4:29 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

>

> This is at 50 ft.

>

> Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Josh Baird]

Technically, a L3 switch -is- a router.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:19 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Im not understanding something here, As I understand it the CRS are layer
> 3 switches. But I see a lot of communication wanting to use them as
> routers, this seems counterproductive, is there a benefit I am not seeing?
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> But I think RB2011 and CRS109/125 have pretty much the same CPU and
>> memory, not sure why one the packet processing power would be different
>> between them.
>>
>> In your case with fiber, if you are delivering gigabit Internet to
>> customers, either would probably be underpowered.  Oh, and the WiFi won’t
>> do gigabit either.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 3:20 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>>
>>
>> Yeah, I ignore the model numbers in comparisons.
>>
>>
>>
>> Basically if you are switching only, the CRS are ok.
>>
>> If you are routing, you need CPU power for connection tracking etc.
>>
>> So look at the CPU(s) of each model instead.
>>
>>
>>
>> The cheaper CRS units switching chips will do full line speed and high
>> aggregate as long as the CPU doesn’t have to touch packets.
>>
>> Once you implement anything where the CPU is involved inspecting packets
>> throughput drops dramatically IMO.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 1:37 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>>
>>
>>
>> Can’t compare CRS and RB model numbers.  I think the processor and memory
>> specs are similar if not identical.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure the gigabit ports are a big deal, it just always seems a mess
>> deciding what to plug in where on a 2011.  It’s like deciding which GOP
>> candidates are relegated to the junior varsity debate.
>>
>>
>>
>> Residential users don’t even seem to want wired ports anymore, although
>> businesses still do.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 2:30 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
>>
>>
>>
>> Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would
>> think if that is the case the 2011 would be beefier
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?
>> Any gotchas?
>>
>> Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all
>> gigabit, plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some
>> environments. Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.
>>
>> Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high
>> failure rate on CRS109?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN

[Josh Baird]

I believe it has software/features to simplify the L2 switching
functionality, but the last time I checked, it was still as stupidly
complex as it always has been.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:22 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> but isnt it different software?
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> Technically, a L3 switch -is- a router.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:19 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Im not understanding something here, As I understand it the CRS are
>>> layer 3 switches. But I see a lot of communication wanting to use them as
>>> routers, this seems counterproductive, is there a benefit I am not seeing?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
 But I think RB2011 and CRS109/125 have pretty much the same CPU and
 memory, not sure why one the packet processing power would be different
 between them.

 In your case with fiber, if you are delivering gigabit Internet to
 customers, either would probably be underpowered.  Oh, and the WiFi won’t
 do gigabit either.


 *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
 *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 3:20 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN


 Yeah, I ignore the model numbers in comparisons.



 Basically if you are switching only, the CRS are ok.

 If you are routing, you need CPU power for connection tracking etc.

 So look at the CPU(s) of each model instead.



 The cheaper CRS units switching chips will do full line speed and high
 aggregate as long as the CPU doesn’t have to touch packets.

 Once you implement anything where the CPU is involved inspecting
 packets throughput drops dramatically IMO.



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
 *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 1:37 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN



 Can’t compare CRS and RB model numbers.  I think the processor and
 memory specs are similar if not identical.



 Not sure the gigabit ports are a big deal, it just always seems a mess
 deciding what to plug in where on a 2011.  It’s like deciding which GOP
 candidates are relegated to the junior varsity debate.



 Residential users don’t even seem to want wired ports anymore, although
 businesses still do.





 *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 

 *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 2:30 PM

 *To:* af@afmug.com

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN vs RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN



 Do the model numbers indicate beef? like the 1100 vs 2011, you would
 think if that is the case the 2011 would be beefier



 On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

 Has anyone switched from using RB2011 to CRS109 for WiFi SoHo routers?
 Any gotchas?

 Main differences I see are CRS109 has 2 less ports but they are all
 gigabit, plus it seems to have a fan which might be a negative in some
 environments. Slightly different form factor, and a little more expensive.

 Also do I remember some people saying they were experiencing a high
 failure rate on CRS109?





 --

 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
 team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[Mathew Howard]

Do you have the antenna size set right? You should be able to get to 49 or
50 with it set to 30dbi. if it's set to 23dbi (the minimum/default, I
think) it will limit you to 44... but that isn't going to change the actual
output, since 21dbm conducted TX power is as high as they'll go in UNII-1.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Justin Marshall  wrote:

> Probably a dumb question, but…
>
> How are you getting to 49?
>
>
>
> Mine maxes out at 44 on 5225…
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 4:16 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> Expect better than this... Distance is a bit further, but this is a 2'
> Rocket dish at one end and a 25dbi Force110 dish at the other. You're going
> to be limited to 49db EIRP at 5225.
>
>
>
> ​.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
>
> UBNT AirFiber 5x Dishes (5G30-S45)
>
> 6.57 Miles
>
> 5225 / 50Mhz
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 3:52 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> Distance?  Antennas?  Band?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Oct 12, 2015 12:48 PM, "Justin Marshall"  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
>
> UBNT’s link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power…
>
>
>
> What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> just...@pdmnet.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

as better filter design and antenna systems come out the edge power will go
up, but it will be some time before the market forces the costs down.
hopefully enough pailure in band edges and congestion in center channels
will take place that consumer demand forces the shift. The hump in the
middle is going to suck though, and its unlikely current systems with the
limited band edge output will be compatible, lots of stuff on ebay in the
near future

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Justin Marshall  wrote:

> Ok… I did not know that
>
>
>
> I should probably read up on UNII/OOBE
>
>
>
> Thanks for that explanation…
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 6:22 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> If we were hitting the EIRP limits, that would be true. but it isn't the
> EIRP limits that we're hitting, they're limited by the out of band
> emmisions. The EIRP limit in UNII-1 is technically 53dBm, but because of
> the OOBE limits, no radios that I'm aware of can actually hit that - they
> all have to keep the TX power below 21db or so to stay within the limits.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
> Not in this case, no. the allowable conducted tx power stays the same (or
> close) when you go to a bigger antenna, so the EIRP goes up. It's because
> of how the new out of band emmisions rules work.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
>
> I would think if you increase the dbi of the antennae, it would lower the
> EIRP?
>
>
>
> Been a long day, maybe I have that backwards?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 5:38 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> Do you have the antenna size set right? You should be able to get to 49 or
> 50 with it set to 30dbi. if it's set to 23dbi (the minimum/default, I
> think) it will limit you to 44... but that isn't going to change the actual
> output, since 21dbm conducted TX power is as high as they'll go in UNII-1.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
>
> Probably a dumb question, but…
>
> How are you getting to 49?
>
>
>
> Mine maxes out at 44 on 5225…
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 4:16 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> Expect better than this... Distance is a bit further, but this is a 2'
> Rocket dish at one end and a 25dbi Force110 dish at the other. You're going
> to be limited to 49db EIRP at 5225.
>
>
>
> ​.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Justin Marshall 
> wrote:
>
> UBNT AirFiber 5x Dishes (5G30-S45)
>
> 6.57 Miles
>
> 5225 / 50Mhz
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2015 3:52 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AirFiber Link Calc
>
>
>
> Distance?  Antennas?  Band?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Oct 12, 2015 12:48 PM, "Justin Marshall"  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Trying to run a link calc for a new AirFiber 5x link we are putting up.
>
> UBNT’s link calculator tops out at 27 on the tx power…
>
>
>
> What is everyone else using for a quick and dirty guestimate?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> just...@pdmnet.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.