Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

[Chuck Hogg]

That's an example...

Regards,
Chuck

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> BMG = BMG Rights Management?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>
>> I think we are going to start just following Google's take on DMCA
>> notices.  I would like ours to send the customer an email requiring the to
>> go to a webpage in the next 7 days or be blocked.  They will then be
>> tracked watching a video of sorts that explains why they are watching this
>> video.  I would also explain that the company sending the complaint may
>> want to settle, but it would be up to the customer to take whatever action
>> they deemed appropriate.  Further, I would tell the customer that I would
>> not disclose their CPNI without a court order.
>>
>> This is what they send out
>>
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>> And then they forward (Insert company here)'s complaint, in this case BMG.
>> [image: Inline image 2]
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I hit send too quickly. Here's how to NAT your customers to a range of
>>> ports.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Mike Hammett" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Monday, March 7, 2016 12:01:07 PM
>>>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>>>
>>> Perhaps our ticketing systems need an input box where we can copy +
>>> paste the ACNS XML into and it files it with the correct customer?
>>>
>>> If you're NATing your customers, you should be NATing them to a
>>> particular range so you can track them easier.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Jon Auer" 
>>> *To: *"Animal Farm" 
>>> *Sent: *Monday, March 7, 2016 11:32:01 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>>>
>>> I filled out that survey and then realized that most of the burden comes
>>> down to the shi**y state of ticketing systems / backoffice tooling (aside
>>> from not being able to file the registered agent form online).
>>>
>>> Pretty much all the DMCA notices come with ACNS XML. It's easy enough to
>>> parse, open tickets on customers, and handle as automatically or manually
>>> as you want. For a industry-to-industry self-policing mechanism it's pretty
>>> painless.
>>>
>>> The only DMCA notice we've received *without* ACNS XML came from
>>> CitiBank's SOC when one of our shared hosting customers got hacked and was
>>> hosting a phishing page with their logo on it.
>>>
>>> Like most things ISPish the pain comes in the valley between when you
>>> start and have so few customers that it's a novelty/doesn't take too much
>>> time and when you have so many customers/it's enough of a pain that you
>>> automate it.
>>> Of course, when the valley is everything between some guy with like 200
>>> subs and Comcast there's a lot of people feeling the pain, but the pain
>>> shouldn't be there--we should be demanding that our back office
>>> ticketing/billing venders provide ACNS parsing.
>>>
>>> We need to get our collective ducks in a row and manage DMCA well enough
>>> that the rights-holders don't get any more bent out of shape and we end up
>>> getting served with complaints that have teeth-subpoenas and whatnot.
>>>
>>> Can't identify customers because NAT?
>>> Log the port translations. ACNS includes port numbers.
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] I might be under attack by a competitor

[Rory Conaway]

I’m almost done doing that.  This should be interesting.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 9:55 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I might be under attack by a competitor


Change your ssid and hide it...
On Mar 7, 2016 9:05 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
> wrote:
Received disassoc from 04:18:d6:e4:c0:15. Reason: Disassociated because sending 
STA is leaving (or has left) BSS (8).
Feb 13 07:17:43 wireless: ath0 STA-TRAFFIC-STAT mac=04:18:d6:e4:c0:15 
rx_packets=633675 rx_bytes=116857546 tx_packets=2225222 tx_bytes=3041234063
Feb 13 07:17:43 wireless: ath0 Expired node:04:18:D6:E4:C0:15
Feb 13 07:17:43 hostapd: ath0: STA 04:18:d6:e4:c0:15 IEEE 802.11: disassociated
Feb 13 07:17:43 wireless: ath0 Sending deauth to 04:18:d6:e4:c0:15. Reason: 
Class 2 frame received from nonauthenticated STA (

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 9:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] I might be under attack by a competitor

I have a couple of customers off the same Ubiquiti Rocket 5 AP that have been 
having an issue the last couple days with going offline for a short time and 
then reconnecting and coming back online.  I pull the logs on the AP and see a 
bunch of handshaking and several of these.  I’m pretty sure this is what 
happens when an enterprise radio does Rogue Access Point Suppression.  Am I 
reading this right or is there something I’m not aware of like a bad CPE that 
can cause this?

Rory

Re: [AFMUG] I might be under attack by a competitor

[Jaime Solorza]

Change your ssid and hide it...
On Mar 7, 2016 9:05 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> Received disassoc from 04:18:d6:e4:c0:15. Reason: Disassociated because
> sending STA is leaving (or has left) BSS (8).
>
> Feb 13 07:17:43 wireless: ath0 STA-TRAFFIC-STAT mac=04:18:d6:e4:c0:15
> rx_packets=633675 rx_bytes=116857546 tx_packets=2225222 tx_bytes=3041234063
>
> Feb 13 07:17:43 wireless: ath0 Expired node:04:18:D6:E4:C0:15
>
> Feb 13 07:17:43 hostapd: ath0: STA 04:18:d6:e4:c0:15 IEEE 802.11:
> disassociated
>
> Feb 13 07:17:43 wireless: ath0 Sending deauth to 04:18:d6:e4:c0:15.
> Reason: Class 2 frame received from nonauthenticated STA (
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Monday, March 07, 2016 9:03 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] I might be under attack by a competitor
>
>
>
> I have a couple of customers off the same Ubiquiti Rocket 5 AP that have
> been having an issue the last couple days with going offline for a short
> time and then reconnecting and coming back online.  I pull the logs on the
> AP and see a bunch of handshaking and several of these.  I’m pretty sure
> this is what happens when an enterprise radio does Rogue Access Point
> Suppression.  Am I reading this right or is there something I’m not aware
> of like a bad CPE that can cause this?
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Sterling Jacobson]

Yeah, lots of price changes.

I buy most SFP. SFP+ from them now, I like the ease of ordering DDM or extra 
temp rated, or compatibility modded etc.





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 9:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand 
S-35LC20D?

It looks like Fiberstore dropped their bidi SFP prices - about half what they 
were in December.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
Fiberstore is apparently cheaper for a lot of the LC to LC cables I just 
ordered. Like half the price of ecablemart.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 7:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand 
S-35LC20D?


Resources, labor cost, industry around it.

Lots of rare earth metals that exist in that region of the world. Low labor 
cost compared to the US.
On Mar 7, 2016 7:57 PM, "David Milholen" 
> wrote:
My question why isnt America making this kind of stuff?? Why does china get all 
the street cred?

Rant: America has become immersed in how lazy we can be in my opinion.


On 3/7/2016 5:33 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
the one thing that fiberstore does not have the best prices on is fiber patch 
cables...  if you're buying a lot of LC-LC, SC-LC, SC-SC duplex 9/125 for in 
building cross connects, and patch cables in bulk from 0.2 meters up to 30 
meters in length, you will see much better prices from 
www.ecablemart.com and other chinese cable vendors.  
Also better prices for things like SC, LC bulkheads and patch panels.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Erich Kaiser 
> wrote:
We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great. I am 
impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have the time, FS is 
the way to go, although they have been much quicker on turning them around 
lately.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No problem with them. 
They are identical to the MT modules. So why should I buy from MT for 3X the 
cost? Unless I need it like now, and Baltic has them, then we can swing by and 
pick them up.
On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been great, and shipping 
is cheap and fast (somehow).

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak 
> wrote:
I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public reception 
of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better if I was not 
the only one.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.

I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.

Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100 dollars.

I’m nice ☺

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand 
S-35LC20D?

I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
Nice.  No trip to the bank.

From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand 
S-35LC20D?

Don’t buy those.

Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.

In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you must 
wire transfer funds.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sam Kirsch
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and 
S-35LC20D?

I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.  This is 
the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units from then 
newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media Converter or to 
2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine over shorter 
distances.

We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone bad or 
if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?

-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Jason McKemie]

There used to be a drop down for DDM / temp / etc.  The only options I see
now are connector and compatibility.  Looks like they have separate items
for DDM / DOM and temp now.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:35 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Yeah, lots of price changes.
>
>
>
> I buy most SFP. SFP+ from them now, I like the ease of ordering DDM or
> extra temp rated, or compatibility modded etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 9:32 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> It looks like Fiberstore dropped their bidi SFP prices - about half what
> they were in December.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Fiberstore is apparently cheaper for a lot of the LC to LC cables I just
> ordered. Like half the price of ecablemart.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 7:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> Resources, labor cost, industry around it.
>
> Lots of rare earth metals that exist in that region of the world. Low
> labor cost compared to the US.
>
> On Mar 7, 2016 7:57 PM, "David Milholen"  wrote:
>
> My question why isnt America making this kind of stuff?? Why does china
> get all the street cred?
>
> Rant: America has become immersed in how lazy we can be in my opinion.
>
>
>
> On 3/7/2016 5:33 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> the one thing that fiberstore does *not* have the best prices on is fiber
> patch cables...  if you're buying a lot of LC-LC, SC-LC, SC-SC duplex 9/125
> for in building cross connects, and patch cables in bulk from 0.2 meters up
> to 30 meters in length, you will see much better prices from
> www.ecablemart.com and other chinese cable vendors.  Also better prices
> for things like SC, LC bulkheads and patch panels.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Erich Kaiser 
> wrote:
>
> We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great. I am
> impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have the time, FS
> is the way to go, although they have been much quicker on turning them
> around lately.
>
>
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
>
> North Central Tower
>
> er...@northcentraltower.com
>
> Office: 630-621-4804
>
> Cell: 630-777-9291
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
> We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No problem with
> them. They are identical to the MT modules. So why should I buy from MT for
> 3X the cost? Unless I need it like now, and Baltic has them, then we can
> swing by and pick them up.
>
> On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been great, and
> shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>
> I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public
> reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better
> if I was not the only one.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.
>
>
>
> I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.
>
>
>
> Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100 dollars.
>
>
>
> I’m nice J
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
>
> Nice.  No trip to the bank.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> Don’t buy those.
>
>
>
> Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.
>
>
>
> In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you
> must wire transfer funds.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Sam Kirsch
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D
> and S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.
> This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units
> from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media
> Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine
> over shorter distances.
>
>
>
> We're wondering if we 

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Jason McKemie]

It looks like Fiberstore dropped their bidi SFP prices - about half what
they were in December.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Fiberstore is apparently cheaper for a lot of the LC to LC cables I just
> ordered. Like half the price of ecablemart.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 7:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> Resources, labor cost, industry around it.
>
> Lots of rare earth metals that exist in that region of the world. Low
> labor cost compared to the US.
>
> On Mar 7, 2016 7:57 PM, "David Milholen"  wrote:
>
> My question why isnt America making this kind of stuff?? Why does china
> get all the street cred?
>
> Rant: America has become immersed in how lazy we can be in my opinion.
>
>
>
> On 3/7/2016 5:33 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> the one thing that fiberstore does *not* have the best prices on is fiber
> patch cables...  if you're buying a lot of LC-LC, SC-LC, SC-SC duplex 9/125
> for in building cross connects, and patch cables in bulk from 0.2 meters up
> to 30 meters in length, you will see much better prices from
> www.ecablemart.com and other chinese cable vendors.  Also better prices
> for things like SC, LC bulkheads and patch panels.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Erich Kaiser 
> wrote:
>
> We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great. I am
> impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have the time, FS
> is the way to go, although they have been much quicker on turning them
> around lately.
>
>
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
>
> North Central Tower
>
> er...@northcentraltower.com
>
> Office: 630-621-4804
>
> Cell: 630-777-9291
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
> We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No problem with
> them. They are identical to the MT modules. So why should I buy from MT for
> 3X the cost? Unless I need it like now, and Baltic has them, then we can
> swing by and pick them up.
>
> On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been great, and
> shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>
> I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public
> reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better
> if I was not the only one.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.
>
>
>
> I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.
>
>
>
> Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100 dollars.
>
>
>
> I’m nice J
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
>
> Nice.  No trip to the bank.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> Don’t buy those.
>
>
>
> Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.
>
>
>
> In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you
> must wire transfer funds.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Sam Kirsch
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D
> and S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.
> This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units
> from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media
> Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine
> over shorter distances.
>
>
>
> We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone bad
> or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?
>
>
>
> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support*
>
> * Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
>  Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109
> <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
>
> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | sam...@plexicomm.net
> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Sterling Jacobson]

Fiberstore is apparently cheaper for a lot of the LC to LC cables I just 
ordered. Like half the price of ecablemart.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 7:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand 
S-35LC20D?


Resources, labor cost, industry around it.

Lots of rare earth metals that exist in that region of the world. Low labor 
cost compared to the US.
On Mar 7, 2016 7:57 PM, "David Milholen" 
> wrote:
My question why isnt America making this kind of stuff?? Why does china get all 
the street cred?

Rant: America has become immersed in how lazy we can be in my opinion.


On 3/7/2016 5:33 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
the one thing that fiberstore does not have the best prices on is fiber patch 
cables...  if you're buying a lot of LC-LC, SC-LC, SC-SC duplex 9/125 for in 
building cross connects, and patch cables in bulk from 0.2 meters up to 30 
meters in length, you will see much better prices from 
www.ecablemart.com and other chinese cable vendors.  
Also better prices for things like SC, LC bulkheads and patch panels.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Erich Kaiser 
> wrote:
We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great. I am 
impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have the time, FS is 
the way to go, although they have been much quicker on turning them around 
lately.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No problem with them. 
They are identical to the MT modules. So why should I buy from MT for 3X the 
cost? Unless I need it like now, and Baltic has them, then we can swing by and 
pick them up.
On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been great, and shipping 
is cheap and fast (somehow).

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak 
> wrote:
I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public reception 
of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better if I was not 
the only one.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.

I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.

Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100 dollars.

I’m nice ☺

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand 
S-35LC20D?

I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
Nice.  No trip to the bank.

From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand 
S-35LC20D?

Don’t buy those.

Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.

In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you must 
wire transfer funds.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sam Kirsch
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and 
S-35LC20D?

I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.  This is 
the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units from then 
newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media Converter or to 
2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine over shorter 
distances.

We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone bad or 
if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?

-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 
1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | 
sam...@plexicomm.net







--
[cid:image001.jpg@01D178B8.97393780]

Re: [AFMUG] 450 14.1.2 build 4

[George Skorup]

The watchdog thing is definitely tied to temperature. Haven't seen a 
single AP reset in days now. It'll be 65 tomorrow! Then I'm sure it'll 
get below zero again and snow a foot before we get spring for real. :(


Will 30MHz on the regular 450 be available in the 5.4 band? Or will that 
require a new certification?


On 3/7/2016 10:06 PM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:


Aaron hasn’t jumped on this one yet… so let me.

We’ll have a new open beta build of 14.1.2 out late this week 
(Friday).  We have high confidence that this will eliminate the watchdog.


Among other things, it rolls in ALL of the 13.4.1 benefits and fixes 
(including the RADIUS issue you mention) and opens up 5.2 and 5.4 GHz 
bands for 450i.


You will certainly want to try this one.

There is also a chance that shortly after, we’ll have a beta of R14.2, 
which will have 30 MHz channel bandwidths for 450/450i and enable the 
AUX port on 450i.


Matt

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
*Sent:* Monday, March 07, 2016 3:17 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450 14.1.2 build 4

13.2.1 is in my opinion the latest and stable release for the PMP450 & 
PMP430.  13.4 has some radius and watchdog reset issues (amongst others)


-sean

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc 
(ICI) > wrote:


14.1.2 is buggy.  13.4 seems stable

*Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131
*
*317-738-0320  Daytime #*
*317-412-1540  Cell/Direct #*
*Online: www.surfici.net *

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!


On Mar 7, 2016, at 3:55 PM, George Skorup > wrote:

I have 13.4.1 for FSK loaded on a couple sites now. Seems to
be good so far. I wonder how hard it would be to get us 13.4.1
for the regular 450, with the AP FPGA image that fixes the
crazy issues. C'mon Cambium I can dream, right?

On 3/7/2016 1:49 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

i'm too scared after the 14.1.1 fiasco we went through.

let me know how it goes lol...I might upgrade a couple
months after 14.1.2 is out in the wild but i'm too gun shy
now.

-sean

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Tyson @ Internet
Communications Inc (ICI) > wrote:

Testing the following firmware.  We see on three sites
using 10Mhz channels the sms are registering.  No
issues on 13.4 or 20Mhz channels. Anyone else see this ?

*Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131
*
*317-738-0320  Daytime #*
*317-412-1540  Cell/Direct #*
*Online: www.surfici.net *

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

Re: [AFMUG] 450 14.1.2 build 4

[Matt Mangriotis]

Aaron hasn’t jumped on this one yet… so let me.

We’ll have a new open beta build of 14.1.2 out late this week (Friday).  We 
have high confidence that this will eliminate the watchdog.

Among other things, it rolls in ALL of the 13.4.1 benefits and fixes (including 
the RADIUS issue you mention) and opens up 5.2 and 5.4 GHz bands for 450i.

You will certainly want to try this one.

There is also a chance that shortly after, we’ll have a beta of R14.2, which 
will have 30 MHz channel bandwidths for 450/450i and enable the AUX port on 
450i.

Matt

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 3:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 14.1.2 build 4

13.2.1 is in my opinion the latest and stable release for the PMP450 & PMP430.  
13.4 has some radius and watchdog reset issues (amongst others)

-sean


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI) 
> wrote:
14.1.2 is buggy.  13.4 seems stable
Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

On Mar 7, 2016, at 3:55 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
I have 13.4.1 for FSK loaded on a couple sites now. Seems to be good so far. I 
wonder how hard it would be to get us 13.4.1 for the regular 450, with the AP 
FPGA image that fixes the crazy issues. C'mon Cambium I can dream, right?
On 3/7/2016 1:49 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
i'm too scared after the 14.1.1 fiasco we went through.

let me know how it goes lol...I might upgrade a couple months after 14.1.2 is 
out in the wild but i'm too gun shy now.

-sean


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI) 
> wrote:
Testing the following firmware.  We see on three sites using 10Mhz channels the 
sms are registering.  No issues on 13.4 or 20Mhz channels.  Anyone else see 
this ?
Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

Re: [AFMUG] I might be under attack by a competitor

[Rory Conaway]

Received disassoc from 04:18:d6:e4:c0:15. Reason: Disassociated because sending 
STA is leaving (or has left) BSS (8).
Feb 13 07:17:43 wireless: ath0 STA-TRAFFIC-STAT mac=04:18:d6:e4:c0:15 
rx_packets=633675 rx_bytes=116857546 tx_packets=2225222 tx_bytes=3041234063
Feb 13 07:17:43 wireless: ath0 Expired node:04:18:D6:E4:C0:15
Feb 13 07:17:43 hostapd: ath0: STA 04:18:d6:e4:c0:15 IEEE 802.11: disassociated
Feb 13 07:17:43 wireless: ath0 Sending deauth to 04:18:d6:e4:c0:15. Reason: 
Class 2 frame received from nonauthenticated STA (

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 9:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] I might be under attack by a competitor

I have a couple of customers off the same Ubiquiti Rocket 5 AP that have been 
having an issue the last couple days with going offline for a short time and 
then reconnecting and coming back online.  I pull the logs on the AP and see a 
bunch of handshaking and several of these.  I'm pretty sure this is what 
happens when an enterprise radio does Rogue Access Point Suppression.  Am I 
reading this right or is there something I'm not aware of like a bad CPE that 
can cause this?

Rory

[AFMUG] I might be under attack by a competitor

[Rory Conaway]

I have a couple of customers off the same Ubiquiti Rocket 5 AP that have been 
having an issue the last couple days with going offline for a short time and 
then reconnecting and coming back online.  I pull the logs on the AP and see a 
bunch of handshaking and several of these.  I'm pretty sure this is what 
happens when an enterprise radio does Rogue Access Point Suppression.  Am I 
reading this right or is there something I'm not aware of like a bad CPE that 
can cause this?

Rory

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Paul Stewart]

The $4k a month seems really out of whack …. Does that include access to any 
huts or anything (space/power)?  The IRU part varies greatly on the 
route/location/demand

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 7:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

 

They want $4k monthly "O" with a 500k "20 year IRU"

 

Don't really understand this

 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Eric Kuhnke  > wrote:

500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any further". 



 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout  > wrote:

Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but no build is 
involved?  Is this legit? 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Josh Reynolds]

Resources, labor cost, industry around it.

Lots of rare earth metals that exist in that region of the world. Low labor
cost compared to the US.
On Mar 7, 2016 7:57 PM, "David Milholen"  wrote:

> My question why isnt America making this kind of stuff?? Why does china
> get all the street cred?
>
> Rant: America has become immersed in how lazy we can be in my opinion.
>
>
>
> On 3/7/2016 5:33 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> the one thing that fiberstore does *not* have the best prices on is fiber
> patch cables...  if you're buying a lot of LC-LC, SC-LC, SC-SC duplex 9/125
> for in building cross connects, and patch cables in bulk from 0.2 meters up
> to 30 meters in length, you will see much better prices from
> www.ecablemart.com and other chinese cable vendors.  Also better prices
> for things like SC, LC bulkheads and patch panels.
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Erich Kaiser 
> wrote:
>
>> We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great. I am
>> impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have the time, FS
>> is the way to go, although they have been much quicker on turning them
>> around lately.
>>
>>
>> Erich Kaiser
>> North Central Tower
>> er...@northcentraltower.com
>> Office: 630-621-4804
>> Cell: 630-777-9291
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>>
>>> We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No problem
>>> with them. They are identical to the MT modules. So why should I buy from
>>> MT for 3X the cost? Unless I need it like now, and Baltic has them, then we
>>> can swing by and pick them up.
>>>
>>> On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>>
>>> I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been great, and
>>> shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>>>
 I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public
 reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better
 if I was not the only one.

 On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:

> Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.
>
>
>
> I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.
>
>
>
> Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100
> dollars.
>
>
>
> I’m nice J
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
>
> Nice.  No trip to the bank.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> Don’t buy those.
>
>
>
> Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.
>
>
>
> In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but
> you must wire transfer funds.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com 
> ] *On Behalf Of *Sam Kirsch
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20D and S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these
> products.  This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.
> All the units from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the
> FTC Media Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together
> just fine over shorter distances.
>
>
>
> We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone
> bad or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?
>
>
>
> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support*
>
> * Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
>   Office:
> 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
> <1.866.852.4688>*
>
> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | **
> sam...@plexicomm.net 
> *
>
>
>


>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] Netonix SNMP support

[Josh Baird]

Yes, although their ifDescr/ifAlias is a little screwy.  I have a "ticket"
open on it.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Erich Kaiser 
wrote:

> Does it give you full stats on each Ethernet port, 64bit counters?
>
> WS-10-250-AC
>
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> Office: 630-621-4804
> Cell: 630-777-9291
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[David Milholen]

My question why isnt America making this kind of stuff?? Why does china 
get all the street cred?


Rant: America has become immersed in how lazy we can be in my opinion.



On 3/7/2016 5:33 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
the one thing that fiberstore does /not/ have the best prices on is 
fiber patch cables...  if you're buying a lot of LC-LC, SC-LC, SC-SC 
duplex 9/125 for in building cross connects, and patch cables in bulk 
from 0.2 meters up to 30 meters in length, you will see much better 
prices from www.ecablemart.com  and other 
chinese cable vendors.  Also better prices for things like SC, LC 
bulkheads and patch panels.


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Erich Kaiser 
> wrote:


We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great.
I am impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have
the time, FS is the way to go, although they have been much
quicker on turning them around lately.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com 
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup > wrote:

We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No
problem with them. They are identical to the MT modules. So
why should I buy from MT for 3X the cost? Unless I need it
like now, and Baltic has them, then we can swing by and pick
them up.

On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been
great, and shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak > wrote:

I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is
the public reception of them? I am still a little
hesitant but I'd feel a lot better if I was not the only
one.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson
> wrote:

Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have
to pay for it.

I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.

Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee
of over $100 dollars.

I’m nice J

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown
*Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of
Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

I recently got some stuff from China and they took
PayPal.

Nice.  No trip to the bank.

*From:*Sterling Jacobson 

*Sent:*Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of
Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

Don’t buy those.

Get same/better units from fiberstore.com
.

In quantity I have a direct company in china I order
from also, but you must wire transfer funds.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Sam Kirsch
*Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of
Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and S-35LC20D?

I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches
of these products. This is the second change we've
seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units from then
newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC
Media Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem
to link together just fine over shorter distances.

We're wondering if we just happened to get two
10-packs that have gone bad or if anyone else has
seen any issues with newer SFPs?

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support**
*Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
*
*Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109
 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
**

*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713
 | 
*sam...@plexicomm.net

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[David Milholen]

They used the jet powered carrier pigeon :LOL


On 3/7/2016 5:02 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
They got an order to me (from China) in like 4 days.  Normal 
shipping.  I think that is pretty good.


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Erich Kaiser 
> wrote:


We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great.
I am impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have
the time, FS is the way to go, although they have been much
quicker on turning them around lately.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com 
Office: 630-621-4804 
Cell: 630-777-9291 


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup > wrote:

We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No
problem with them. They are identical to the MT modules. So
why should I buy from MT for 3X the cost? Unless I need it
like now, and Baltic has them, then we can swing by and pick
them up.

On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been
great, and shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak > wrote:

I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is
the public reception of them? I am still a little
hesitant but I'd feel a lot better if I was not the only
one.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson
> wrote:

Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have
to pay for it.

I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.

Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee
of over $100 dollars.

I’m nice J

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown
*Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of
Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

I recently got some stuff from China and they took
PayPal.

Nice.  No trip to the bank.

*From:*Sterling Jacobson 

*Sent:*Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of
Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

Don’t buy those.

Get same/better units from fiberstore.com
.

In quantity I have a direct company in china I order
from also, but you must wire transfer funds.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Sam Kirsch
*Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of
Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and S-35LC20D?

I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches
of these products. This is the second change we've
seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units from then
newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC
Media Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem
to link together just fine over shorter distances.

We're wondering if we just happened to get two
10-packs that have gone bad or if anyone else has
seen any issues with newer SFPs?

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support**
*Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
*
*Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109
 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
**

*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713
 | 
*sam...@plexicomm.net
**









--

Re: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[David Milholen]

If you run ptp650 or higher we run fiber + Superior essex armored


On 3/7/2016 2:49 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Then move the Toughcable over for DC power and run some fiber.  *Dream*


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Mike Hammett > wrote:


ToughCable Carrier everywhere. Well, until more of our vendors
support SFPs on tower based radios.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Jon Langeler" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Monday, March 7, 2016 2:38:04 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.




--

[AFMUG] Netonix SNMP support

[Erich Kaiser]

Does it give you full stats on each Ethernet port, 64bit counters?

WS-10-250-AC



Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Mike Hammett]

When you purchase dark Fiber it can come in two forms a lease and an IRU. A 
lease is paid monthly and includes the right to use the fiber as well as any 
maintenance that needs to happen such as locates or repairs. A lease is an 
expense, not an asset. An IRU is a 20 year upfront payment priced per strand 
mile while the maintenance is priced per route mile and is paid annually. An 
IRU is an asset.

-Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe 
Brothers WISP




- Original Message -
From: Ken Hohhof 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 19:09:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

What's the $4K per month for, fixing fiber cuts?  And it sounds like the 
$500K is for a 20 year lease, not to own it.

For $4K per month O, they should wash, fluff and fold that fiber daily.


-Original Message- 
From: Trey Scarborough
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 6:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

In California not to crazy. just depends on where it is. if its in rock
or an urban area It could have cost a pretty penny to build. It as well
could be on low strand count fiber so you have to eat more of the cost.
I have seen a build in an urban environment be 500k a km. Its more
likely though that they just want you to go away. I have seen some
quotes for 100k just to put in 3 splice tails on an existing IRU.
Sometimes it has to do with permitting. One of them happened to be on
railroad property


On 3/7/2016 6:23 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
> They want $4k monthly "O" with a 500k "20 year IRU"
>
> Don't really understand this
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Eric Kuhnke  > wrote:
>
> 500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any
> further".
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout  > wrote:
>
> Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but
> no build is involved?  Is this legit?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Ken Hohhof]

What's the $4K per month for, fixing fiber cuts?  And it sounds like the 
$500K is for a 20 year lease, not to own it.


For $4K per month O, they should wash, fluff and fold that fiber daily.


-Original Message- 
From: Trey Scarborough

Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 6:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

In California not to crazy. just depends on where it is. if its in rock
or an urban area It could have cost a pretty penny to build. It as well
could be on low strand count fiber so you have to eat more of the cost.
I have seen a build in an urban environment be 500k a km. Its more
likely though that they just want you to go away. I have seen some
quotes for 100k just to put in 3 splice tails on an existing IRU.
Sometimes it has to do with permitting. One of them happened to be on
railroad property


On 3/7/2016 6:23 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

They want $4k monthly "O" with a 500k "20 year IRU"

Don't really understand this

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Eric Kuhnke > wrote:

500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any
further".



On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout > wrote:

Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but
no build is involved?  Is this legit?

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Trey Scarborough]

In California not to crazy. just depends on where it is. if its in rock 
or an urban area It could have cost a pretty penny to build. It as well 
could be on low strand count fiber so you have to eat more of the cost. 
I have seen a build in an urban environment be 500k a km. Its more 
likely though that they just want you to go away. I have seen some 
quotes for 100k just to put in 3 splice tails on an existing IRU. 
Sometimes it has to do with permitting. One of them happened to be on 
railroad property



On 3/7/2016 6:23 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

They want $4k monthly "O" with a 500k "20 year IRU"

Don't really understand this

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Eric Kuhnke > wrote:

500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any
further".



On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout > wrote:

Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but
no build is involved?  Is this legit?

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Sterling Jacobson]

It’s not unheard of.

But it’s totally lame.

I sat in a room with a rep from another fiber company and my construction guys 
once.

It was a 14 mile run and they wanted some huge amount up front and $5k monthly 
for 10 years.

I turned to my crew guys and asked how much to build 288 count fiber with 
conduit along that same run.

It was around $280k.

Then I turned back to the rep and said, “I guess I’ll just build it myself and 
sell it all day long for $1000k a month and no up front.”

They didn’t like that answer.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 4:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?


Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but no build is 
involved?  Is this legit?

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Ken Hohhof]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefeasible_rights_of_use


-Original Message- 
From: Mike Hammett

Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 6:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

That better be two strands for 192 route miles.

-Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe 
Brothers WISP





- Original Message -
From: TJ Trout 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 18:23:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

They want $4k monthly "O" with a 500k "20 year IRU"

Don't really understand this

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:


500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any
further".



On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:


Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but no build
is involved?  Is this legit?

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Eric Kuhnke]

you're talking about buying an IRU, which is a whole other ball game.

ask a telecom lawyer to explain to you what an IRU is?

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:23 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> They want $4k monthly "O" with a 500k "20 year IRU"
>
> Don't really understand this
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
>> 500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any
>> further".
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but no build
>>> is involved?  Is this legit?
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Mike Hammett]

That better be two strands for 192 route miles.

-Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe 
Brothers WISP




- Original Message -
From: TJ Trout 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 18:23:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

They want $4k monthly "O" with a 500k "20 year IRU"

Don't really understand this

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> 500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any
> further".
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but no build
>> is involved?  Is this legit?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Mike Hammett]

How far of a run?

-Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe 
Brothers WISP




- Original Message -
From: TJ Trout 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 18:23:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

They want $4k monthly "O" with a 500k "20 year IRU"

Don't really understand this

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> 500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any
> further".
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but no build
>> is involved?  Is this legit?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[TJ Trout]

They want $4k monthly "O" with a 500k "20 year IRU"

Don't really understand this

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> 500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any
> further".
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but no build
>> is involved?  Is this legit?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Eric Kuhnke]

500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any further".



On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but no build
> is involved?  Is this legit?
>

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Josh Reynolds]

The 500k sounds like the build cost - or the build was already done
and now they have you paying for it.

Also, depending on the length of the run, permitting, etc you may be
able to contract it for less given $periodOfTime for ROI.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:33 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
> Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but no build is
> involved?  Is this legit?

[AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[TJ Trout]

Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but no build is
involved?  Is this legit?

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Eric Kuhnke]

the one thing that fiberstore does *not* have the best prices on is fiber
patch cables...  if you're buying a lot of LC-LC, SC-LC, SC-SC duplex 9/125
for in building cross connects, and patch cables in bulk from 0.2 meters up
to 30 meters in length, you will see much better prices from
www.ecablemart.com and other chinese cable vendors.  Also better prices for
things like SC, LC bulkheads and patch panels.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Erich Kaiser 
wrote:

> We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great. I am
> impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have the time, FS
> is the way to go, although they have been much quicker on turning them
> around lately.
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> Office: 630-621-4804
> Cell: 630-777-9291
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
>> We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No problem with
>> them. They are identical to the MT modules. So why should I buy from MT for
>> 3X the cost? Unless I need it like now, and Baltic has them, then we can
>> swing by and pick them up.
>>
>> On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been great, and
>> shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>>
>>> I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public
>>> reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better
>>> if I was not the only one.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson <
>>> sterl...@avative.net> wrote:
>>>
 Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.



 I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.



 Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100
 dollars.



 I’m nice J



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
 *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
 S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?



 I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.

 Nice.  No trip to the bank.



 *From:* Sterling Jacobson 

 *Sent:* Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM

 *To:* af@afmug.com

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
 S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?



 Don’t buy those.



 Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.



 In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you
 must wire transfer funds.



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
 Behalf Of *Sam Kirsch
 *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D
 and S-35LC20D?



 I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.
 This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units
 from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media
 Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine
 over shorter distances.



 We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone
 bad or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?



 *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support*

 * Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
  Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109
 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*

 *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | **
 sam...@plexicomm.net *



>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[George Skorup]

Same here. I think we did DHL on the first order and FedEx the second 
time. And I think FedEx was maybe a day faster.


On 3/7/2016 5:02 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
They got an order to me (from China) in like 4 days.  Normal 
shipping.  I think that is pretty good.


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Erich Kaiser 
> wrote:


We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great.
I am impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have
the time, FS is the way to go, although they have been much
quicker on turning them around lately.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com 
Office: 630-621-4804 
Cell: 630-777-9291 


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup > wrote:

We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No
problem with them. They are identical to the MT modules. So
why should I buy from MT for 3X the cost? Unless I need it
like now, and Baltic has them, then we can swing by and pick
them up.

On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been
great, and shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak > wrote:

I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is
the public reception of them? I am still a little
hesitant but I'd feel a lot better if I was not the only
one.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson
> wrote:

Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have
to pay for it.

I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.

Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee
of over $100 dollars.

I’m nice J

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown
*Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of
Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

I recently got some stuff from China and they took
PayPal.

Nice.  No trip to the bank.

*From:*Sterling Jacobson 

*Sent:*Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of
Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

Don’t buy those.

Get same/better units from fiberstore.com
.

In quantity I have a direct company in china I order
from also, but you must wire transfer funds.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Sam Kirsch
*Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of
Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and S-35LC20D?

I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches
of these products. This is the second change we've
seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units from then
newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC
Media Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem
to link together just fine over shorter distances.

We're wondering if we just happened to get two
10-packs that have gone bad or if anyone else has
seen any issues with newer SFPs?

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support**
*Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
*
*Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109
 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
**

*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713
 | 
*sam...@plexicomm.net
**

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Erich Kaiser]

We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great. I am
impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have the time, FS
is the way to go, although they have been much quicker on turning them
around lately.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No problem with
> them. They are identical to the MT modules. So why should I buy from MT for
> 3X the cost? Unless I need it like now, and Baltic has them, then we can
> swing by and pick them up.
>
> On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been great, and
> shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>
>> I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public
>> reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better
>> if I was not the only one.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson <
>> sterl...@avative.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100
>>> dollars.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m nice J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
>>> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
>>>
>>> Nice.  No trip to the bank.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
>>> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don’t buy those.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you
>>> must wire transfer funds.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Sam Kirsch
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D
>>> and S-35LC20D?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.
>>> This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units
>>> from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media
>>> Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine
>>> over shorter distances.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone
>>> bad or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support*
>>>
>>> * Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
>>>  Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109
>>> <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
>>>
>>> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | **
>>> sam...@plexicomm.net *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Josh Baird]

They got an order to me (from China) in like 4 days.  Normal shipping.  I
think that is pretty good.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Erich Kaiser 
wrote:

> We have bought a few dozen 10G and 1G optics and they work great. I am
> impressed with their packaging.   As George said, if you have the time, FS
> is the way to go, although they have been much quicker on turning them
> around lately.
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> Office: 630-621-4804
> Cell: 630-777-9291
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:53 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
>> We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No problem with
>> them. They are identical to the MT modules. So why should I buy from MT for
>> 3X the cost? Unless I need it like now, and Baltic has them, then we can
>> swing by and pick them up.
>>
>> On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been great, and
>> shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>>
>>> I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public
>>> reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better
>>> if I was not the only one.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson <
>>> sterl...@avative.net> wrote:
>>>
 Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.



 I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.



 Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100
 dollars.



 I’m nice J



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
 *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
 S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?



 I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.

 Nice.  No trip to the bank.



 *From:* Sterling Jacobson 

 *Sent:* Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM

 *To:* af@afmug.com

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
 S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?



 Don’t buy those.



 Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.



 In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you
 must wire transfer funds.



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
 Behalf Of *Sam Kirsch
 *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D
 and S-35LC20D?



 I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.
 This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units
 from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media
 Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine
 over shorter distances.



 We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone
 bad or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?



 *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support*

 * Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
  Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109
 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*

 *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | **
 sam...@plexicomm.net *



>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[George Skorup]

We bought some 20km 1G modules from FS.com. Shipped fast. No problem 
with them. They are identical to the MT modules. So why should I buy 
from MT for 3X the cost? Unless I need it like now, and Baltic has them, 
then we can swing by and pick them up.


On 3/7/2016 3:53 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been great, and 
shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak > wrote:


I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the
public reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd
feel a lot better if I was not the only one.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson
> wrote:

Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay
for it.

I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.

Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over
$100 dollars.

I’m nice J

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik
SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.

Nice. No trip to the bank.

*From:*Sterling Jacobson 

*Sent:*Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik
SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

Don’t buy those.

Get same/better units from fiberstore.com .

In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from
also, but you must wire transfer funds.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Kirsch
*Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
S-53LC20D and S-35LC20D?

I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these
products.  This is the second change we've seen in the case of
the SFP.  All the units from then newest batch seem to have
trouble linking to the FTC Media Converter or to 2011s, Cloud
Core products seem to link together just fine over shorter
distances.

We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that
have gone bad or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer
SFPs?

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support**
*Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net*
*Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109  |
Fax: 1.866.852.4688 **

*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713  |
***sam...@plexicomm.net* *

Re: [AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points

[Josh Reynolds]

​"HEY GUYS, WHY ARE WE RUNNING FIBER PAST THE CARRIER HOTEL?"

"IDGAF, KEEP BORING THAT WAY **(points toward random building surrounded by
nothing)**"​

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> You already know what's up with KC.  :-\
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, March 7, 2016 4:25:19 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points
>
> Let me know when you get to KC :P
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:22 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> We are in the process of doing largely the same thing, but going in a
>> different direction. We're going St. Louis - Indy - Ashburn with the intent
>> to interconnect with Chuck in Indy. I've attached a PNG showing the
>> network. If you can get to a POP that we can actually add you on at, we'll
>> do so similarly to Chuck. POPs along the green and blue lines that I've
>> circled in black are what we're constrained to for this project. If you
>> wish to hop along our route, let me know offlist. I'll have to check that
>> the POP you want is one we can actually do.
>>
>> (Had to resize to fit on AFMUG.)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Chuck Hogg" 
>> *To: *memb...@wispa.org, af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, January 15, 2016 10:01:18 AM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> We are currently in the process of bringing 2 x 10G waves with Windstream
>> up in Chicago and the other to Atlanta.  We are looking at breaking out in
>> a few cities along the path to provide access to the circuits to others.
>> Please let me know if you have an interest in connecting at one of these
>> facilities to ride to Chicago and/or Atlanta.
>>
>> Here are the possible mid-point drop locations I can split out of.
>>
>> LXTNKYXA-151 S Martin Luther King Blvd, Lexington KY
>> BRSTTNXA-112 6th St., Bristol TN
>> KNVLTNAL-2333 Lovell Rd, Knoxville TN
>> ATLNGAMA-55 Marietta St NW, Atlanta GA
>>
>> To Chicago:
>> LSVPKYZU-929 Mason Ave., Louisville KY
>> IPLWIN75-701 W Henry St., Indianapolis IN
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>
>

[AFMUG] 5780apus

[jaldridge]

Anybody have any interest in a couple 5780apus.

Sent from my iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points

[Mike Hammett]

You already know what's up with KC. :-\ 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 4:25:19 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points 



Let me know when you get to KC :P 


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:22 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




We are in the process of doing largely the same thing, but going in a different 
direction. We're going St. Louis - Indy - Ashburn with the intent to 
interconnect with Chuck in Indy. I've attached a PNG showing the network. If 
you can get to a POP that we can actually add you on at, we'll do so similarly 
to Chuck. POPs along the green and blue lines that I've circled in black are 
what we're constrained to for this project. If you wish to hop along our route, 
let me know offlist. I'll have to check that the POP you want is one we can 
actually do. 

(Had to resize to fit on AFMUG.) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Chuck Hogg" < ch...@shelbybb.com > 
To: memb...@wispa.org , af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:01:18 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points 


Hello: 


We are currently in the process of bringing 2 x 10G waves with Windstream up in 
Chicago and the other to Atlanta. We are looking at breaking out in a few 
cities along the path to provide access to the circuits to others. Please let 
me know if you have an interest in connecting at one of these facilities to 
ride to Chicago and/or Atlanta. 


Here are the possible mid-point drop locations I can split out of. 



LXTNKYXA-151 S Martin Luther King Blvd, Lexington KY 
BRSTTNXA-112 6th St., Bristol TN 
KNVLTNAL-2333 Lovell Rd, Knoxville TN 
ATLNGAMA-55 Marietta St NW, Atlanta GA 


To Chicago: 
LSVPKYZU-929 Mason Ave., Louisville KY 

IPLWIN75-701 W Henry St., Indianapolis IN 




Regards, 
Chuck 

Re: [AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points

[Mike Hammett]

Image hosting sites are annoying, although imgur has the best meme generator. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 4:24:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points 


Imgur.com 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On Mar 7, 2016 5:22 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




We are in the process of doing largely the same thing, but going in a different 
direction. We're going St. Louis - Indy - Ashburn with the intent to 
interconnect with Chuck in Indy. I've attached a PNG showing the network. If 
you can get to a POP that we can actually add you on at, we'll do so similarly 
to Chuck. POPs along the green and blue lines that I've circled in black are 
what we're constrained to for this project. If you wish to hop along our route, 
let me know offlist. I'll have to check that the POP you want is one we can 
actually do. 

(Had to resize to fit on AFMUG.) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Chuck Hogg" < ch...@shelbybb.com > 
To: memb...@wispa.org , af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:01:18 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points 


Hello: 


We are currently in the process of bringing 2 x 10G waves with Windstream up in 
Chicago and the other to Atlanta. We are looking at breaking out in a few 
cities along the path to provide access to the circuits to others. Please let 
me know if you have an interest in connecting at one of these facilities to 
ride to Chicago and/or Atlanta. 


Here are the possible mid-point drop locations I can split out of. 



LXTNKYXA-151 S Martin Luther King Blvd, Lexington KY 
BRSTTNXA-112 6th St., Bristol TN 
KNVLTNAL-2333 Lovell Rd, Knoxville TN 
ATLNGAMA-55 Marietta St NW, Atlanta GA 


To Chicago: 
LSVPKYZU-929 Mason Ave., Louisville KY 

IPLWIN75-701 W Henry St., Indianapolis IN 




Regards, 
Chuck 

Re: [AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points

[Josh Reynolds]

Let me know when you get to KC :P

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:22 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> We are in the process of doing largely the same thing, but going in a
> different direction. We're going St. Louis - Indy - Ashburn with the intent
> to interconnect with Chuck in Indy. I've attached a PNG showing the
> network. If you can get to a POP that we can actually add you on at, we'll
> do so similarly to Chuck. POPs along the green and blue lines that I've
> circled in black are what we're constrained to for this project. If you
> wish to hop along our route, let me know offlist. I'll have to check that
> the POP you want is one we can actually do.
>
> (Had to resize to fit on AFMUG.)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Chuck Hogg" 
> *To: *memb...@wispa.org, af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, January 15, 2016 10:01:18 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points
>
> Hello:
>
> We are currently in the process of bringing 2 x 10G waves with Windstream
> up in Chicago and the other to Atlanta.  We are looking at breaking out in
> a few cities along the path to provide access to the circuits to others.
> Please let me know if you have an interest in connecting at one of these
> facilities to ride to Chicago and/or Atlanta.
>
> Here are the possible mid-point drop locations I can split out of.
>
> LXTNKYXA-151 S Martin Luther King Blvd, Lexington KY
> BRSTTNXA-112 6th St., Bristol TN
> KNVLTNAL-2333 Lovell Rd, Knoxville TN
> ATLNGAMA-55 Marietta St NW, Atlanta GA
>
> To Chicago:
> LSVPKYZU-929 Mason Ave., Louisville KY
> IPLWIN75-701 W Henry St., Indianapolis IN
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points

[Josh Luthman]

Imgur.com

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mar 7, 2016 5:22 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> We are in the process of doing largely the same thing, but going in a
> different direction. We're going St. Louis - Indy - Ashburn with the intent
> to interconnect with Chuck in Indy. I've attached a PNG showing the
> network. If you can get to a POP that we can actually add you on at, we'll
> do so similarly to Chuck. POPs along the green and blue lines that I've
> circled in black are what we're constrained to for this project. If you
> wish to hop along our route, let me know offlist. I'll have to check that
> the POP you want is one we can actually do.
>
> (Had to resize to fit on AFMUG.)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Chuck Hogg" 
> *To: *memb...@wispa.org, af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, January 15, 2016 10:01:18 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] 10G Circuit Drop Points
>
> Hello:
>
> We are currently in the process of bringing 2 x 10G waves with Windstream
> up in Chicago and the other to Atlanta.  We are looking at breaking out in
> a few cities along the path to provide access to the circuits to others.
> Please let me know if you have an interest in connecting at one of these
> facilities to ride to Chicago and/or Atlanta.
>
> Here are the possible mid-point drop locations I can split out of.
>
> LXTNKYXA-151 S Martin Luther King Blvd, Lexington KY
> BRSTTNXA-112 6th St., Bristol TN
> KNVLTNAL-2333 Lovell Rd, Knoxville TN
> ATLNGAMA-55 Marietta St NW, Atlanta GA
>
> To Chicago:
> LSVPKYZU-929 Mason Ave., Louisville KY
> IPLWIN75-701 W Henry St., Indianapolis IN
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Joe Novak]

I definitely follow. Still important to find a half way reputable option
for cheap optics :P

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> You guys should all pay more attention to reddit.com/r/networking ,
> NANOG, FISPA, packetpushers, etc.
>
> http://packetpushers.net/overpriced-optics-by-oems/
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
> > I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public
> > reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot
> better if
> > I was not the only one.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100
> >> dollars.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I’m nice J
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> >> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> >> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
> >>
> >> Nice.  No trip to the bank.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Sterling Jacobson
> >>
> >> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
> >>
> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> >> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Don’t buy those.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you
> >> must wire transfer funds.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sam Kirsch
> >> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and
> >> S-35LC20D?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.
> >> This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the
> units
> >> from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media
> >> Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just
> fine
> >> over shorter distances.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone
> bad
> >> or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
> >> Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
> >> Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
> >>
> >> Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Josh Baird]

I have been buying a lot from Fiberstore.  They have been great, and
shipping is cheap and fast (somehow).

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:

> I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public
> reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better
> if I was not the only one.
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
>> Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.
>>
>>
>>
>> Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100
>> dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m nice J
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
>> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
>>
>> Nice.  No trip to the bank.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
>> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>>
>>
>>
>> Don’t buy those.
>>
>>
>>
>> Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you
>> must wire transfer funds.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Sam Kirsch
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D
>> and S-35LC20D?
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.
>> This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units
>> from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media
>> Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine
>> over shorter distances.
>>
>>
>>
>> We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone
>> bad or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support*
>>
>> * Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net Office:
>> 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
>> <1.866.852.4688>*
>>
>> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | **sam...@plexicomm.net
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and S-35LC20D?

[Sam Kirsch]

We'd been buying Mikrotik 'branded' ones in order to avoid just the sort 
of issues we've been having with this last batch.  We can see changes to 
the casing, fins, and even the circuit board in this last batch and very 
few scenarios work properly.  Short distance CCR to CCR works ok, 
anything else has been giving us serious issues.  Definitely looking 
into alternatives at this point.



-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Sterling Jacobson" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/7/2016 4:20:00 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D 
and S-35LC20D?



Don’t buy those.



Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.



In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you 
must wire transfer funds.




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sam Kirsch
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D 
and S-35LC20D?




I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.  
This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the 
units from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC 
Media Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together 
just fine over shorter distances.




We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone 
bad or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?




-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688

Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Josh Reynolds]

You guys should all pay more attention to reddit.com/r/networking ,
NANOG, FISPA, packetpushers, etc.

http://packetpushers.net/overpriced-optics-by-oems/

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
> I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public
> reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better if
> I was not the only one.
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>>
>> Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.
>>
>>
>>
>> Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100
>> dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m nice J
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
>> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
>>
>> Nice.  No trip to the bank.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Sterling Jacobson
>>
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
>> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>>
>>
>>
>> Don’t buy those.
>>
>>
>>
>> Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you
>> must wire transfer funds.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sam Kirsch
>> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and
>> S-35LC20D?
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.
>> This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units
>> from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media
>> Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine
>> over shorter distances.
>>
>>
>>
>> We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone bad
>> or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
>> Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
>> Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
>>
>> Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and S-35LC20D?

[Eric Kuhnke]

Or if you don't like Fiberstore for some reason, there's US-shipping ebay
vendors that sell pretty much the same thing and ship from California...
Look for the ones with 8000+ sales and high feedback.



On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Don’t buy those.
>
>
>
> Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.
>
>
>
> In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you
> must wire transfer funds.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Kirsch
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D
> and S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.
> This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units
> from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media
> Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine
> over shorter distances.
>
>
>
> We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone bad
> or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?
>
>
>
> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support*
>
> * Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
>  Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax:
> 1.866.852.4688*
>
> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | **sam...@plexicomm.net
> *
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Joe Novak]

I recently just purchased from Fiberstore.com... what is the public
reception of them? I am still a little hesitant but I'd feel a lot better
if I was not the only one.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.
>
>
>
> I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.
>
>
>
> Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100 dollars.
>
>
>
> I’m nice J
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
>
> Nice.  No trip to the bank.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs
> S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> Don’t buy those.
>
>
>
> Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.
>
>
>
> In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you
> must wire transfer funds.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Sam Kirsch
> *Sent:* Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D
> and S-35LC20D?
>
>
>
> I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.
> This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units
> from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media
> Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine
> over shorter distances.
>
>
>
> We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone bad
> or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?
>
>
>
> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support*
>
> * Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net Office:
> 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
> <1.866.852.4688>*
>
> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | **sam...@plexicomm.net
> *
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Sterling Jacobson]

Same guys? They will take paypal, but then they have to pay for it.

I don’t like them to pay for PayPal, so I just wire.

Most times it costs me about $10 vs. their PayPal fee of over $100 dollars.

I’m nice ☺

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand 
S-35LC20D?

I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.
Nice.  No trip to the bank.

From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand 
S-35LC20D?

Don’t buy those.

Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.

In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you must 
wire transfer funds.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sam Kirsch
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and 
S-35LC20D?

I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.  This is 
the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units from then 
newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media Converter or to 
2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine over shorter 
distances.

We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone bad or 
if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?

-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | 
sam...@plexicomm.net

Re: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[Josh Luthman]

I guess that's one way to look at it.  The safest flight is the day after a
plane crash.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> If anything, they're the manufacturer doing the most quality control
> checks on their outdoor cable now...  After their Chinese contract
> manufacturer ran off a whole series of counterfeit M series nanostations,
> and got sued, and their other contract manufacturer messed up the cable
> jacket, I'd bet they have a whole team of full time QC people living in
> mainland China to catch these things now.
>
> It's like when Jack in the Box poisoned a bunch of people with e.coli in
> burgers in the 1990s in the pacific northwest. Now they're one of the
> safest and cleanest places because they got scared and realized "shit, this
> could REALLY hurt us if it happens a second time".
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>
>> Even after all that green ubiquiti cable shipped?
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>
>> On Mar 7, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 100% Ubiquiti Toughcable Carrier for a couple years now
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Jon Langeler 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers?
>>>
>>> Jon Langeler
>>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[Eric Kuhnke]

If anything, they're the manufacturer doing the most quality control checks
on their outdoor cable now...  After their Chinese contract manufacturer
ran off a whole series of counterfeit M series nanostations, and got sued,
and their other contract manufacturer messed up the cable jacket, I'd bet
they have a whole team of full time QC people living in mainland China to
catch these things now.

It's like when Jack in the Box poisoned a bunch of people with e.coli in
burgers in the 1990s in the pacific northwest. Now they're one of the
safest and cleanest places because they got scared and realized "shit, this
could REALLY hurt us if it happens a second time".


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Jon Langeler 
wrote:

> Even after all that green ubiquiti cable shipped?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
> On Mar 7, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> 100% Ubiquiti Toughcable Carrier for a couple years now
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>
>> Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers?
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[Josh Luthman]

Ya...after all that... =(


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Jon Langeler 
wrote:

> Even after all that green ubiquiti cable shipped?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
> On Mar 7, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> 100% Ubiquiti Toughcable Carrier for a couple years now
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>
>> Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers?
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[Jeremy]

We use Shireen DC-1021 for everything.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Jon Langeler 
wrote:

> Even after all that green ubiquiti cable shipped?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
> On Mar 7, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> 100% Ubiquiti Toughcable Carrier for a couple years now
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>
>> Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers?
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand S-35LC20D?

[Chuck McCown]

I recently got some stuff from China and they took PayPal.  
Nice.  No trip to the bank.  

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20Dand 
S-35LC20D?

Don’t buy those.

 

Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.

 

In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you must 
wire transfer funds.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sam Kirsch
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and 
S-35LC20D?

 

I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.  This is 
the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units from then 
newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media Converter or to 
2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine over shorter 
distances.

 

We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone bad or 
if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?

 

-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688

Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net

 

Re: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and S-35LC20D?

[Sterling Jacobson]

Don’t buy those.

Get same/better units from fiberstore.com.

In quantity I have a direct company in china I order from also, but you must 
wire transfer funds.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sam Kirsch
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and 
S-35LC20D?

I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.  This is 
the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the units from then 
newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC Media Converter or to 
2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together just fine over shorter 
distances.

We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone bad or 
if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?

-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | 
sam...@plexicomm.net

Re: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[Jon Langeler]

Even after all that green ubiquiti cable shipped?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

> On Mar 7, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> 100% Ubiquiti Toughcable Carrier for a couple years now
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Jon Langeler  
>> wrote:
>> Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers?
>> 
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
> 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 14.1.2 build 4

[Sean Heskett]

13.2.1 is in my opinion the latest and stable release for the PMP450 &
PMP430.  13.4 has some radius and watchdog reset issues (amongst others)

-sean


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI) <
t...@franklinisp.net> wrote:

> 14.1.2 is buggy.  13.4 seems stable
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
>  *Internet Communications Inc.*
>  *739 Commerce Dr.*
>  *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>
>
>
> Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!
>
> On Mar 7, 2016, at 3:55 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
> I have 13.4.1 for FSK loaded on a couple sites now. Seems to be good so
> far. I wonder how hard it would be to get us 13.4.1 for the regular 450,
> with the AP FPGA image that fixes the crazy issues. C'mon Cambium I can
> dream, right?
>
> On 3/7/2016 1:49 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>
> i'm too scared after the 14.1.1 fiasco we went through.
>
> let me know how it goes lol...I might upgrade a couple months after 14.1.2
> is out in the wild but i'm too gun shy now.
>
> -sean
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
> < t...@franklinisp.net> wrote:
>
>> Testing the following firmware.  We see on three sites using 10Mhz
>> channels the sms are registering.  No issues on 13.4 or 20Mhz channels.
>> Anyone else see this ?
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>   *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>   *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>   *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>>
>>
>>
>> Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!
>>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Issues with newest batch of Mikrotik SFPs S-53LC20D and S-35LC20D?

[Sam Kirsch]

I'm curious if anyone has ordered any newer batches of these products.  
This is the second change we've seen in the case of the SFP.  All the 
units from then newest batch seem to have trouble linking to the FTC 
Media Converter or to 2011s, Cloud Core products seem to link together 
just fine over shorter distances.


We're wondering if we just happened to get two 10-packs that have gone 
bad or if anyone else has seen any issues with newer SFPs?


-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net

Re: [AFMUG] 450 14.1.2 build 4

[Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI)]

14.1.2 is buggy.  13.4 seems stable

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net
 
Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

> On Mar 7, 2016, at 3:55 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
> 
> I have 13.4.1 for FSK loaded on a couple sites now. Seems to be good so far. 
> I wonder how hard it would be to get us 13.4.1 for the regular 450, with the 
> AP FPGA image that fixes the crazy issues. C'mon Cambium I can dream, 
> right?
> 
>> On 3/7/2016 1:49 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>> i'm too scared after the 14.1.1 fiasco we went through.
>> 
>> let me know how it goes lol...I might upgrade a couple months after 14.1.2 
>> is out in the wild but i'm too gun shy now.
>> 
>> -sean
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI) 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Testing the following firmware.  We see on three sites using 10Mhz channels 
>>> the sms are registering.  No issues on 13.4 or 20Mhz channels.  Anyone else 
>>> see this ?
>>> 
>>> Tyson Burris, President 
>>> Internet Communications Inc. 
>>> 739 Commerce Dr. 
>>> Franklin, IN 46131 
>>>   
>>> 317-738-0320 Daytime # 
>>> 317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
>>> Online: www.surfici.net
>>>  
>>> Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!
> 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 14.1.2 build 4

[George Skorup]

I have 13.4.1 for FSK loaded on a couple sites now. Seems to be good so 
far. I wonder how hard it would be to get us 13.4.1 for the regular 450, 
with the AP FPGA image that fixes the crazy issues. C'mon Cambium I 
can dream, right?


On 3/7/2016 1:49 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

i'm too scared after the 14.1.1 fiasco we went through.

let me know how it goes lol...I might upgrade a couple months after 
14.1.2 is out in the wild but i'm too gun shy now.


-sean


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc 
(ICI) > wrote:


Testing the following firmware.  We see on three sites using 10Mhz
channels the sms are registering.  No issues on 13.4 or 20Mhz
channels.  Anyone else see this ?

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320  Daytime #*
*317-412-1540  Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

Re: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[George Skorup]

We're using Shireen DC-1021 for customers and 1042 for towers (dry gel 
tape).


On 3/7/2016 2:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

100% Ubiquiti Toughcable Carrier for a couple years now


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:


Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[Josh Luthman]

Then move the Toughcable over for DC power and run some fiber.  *Dream*


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> ToughCable Carrier everywhere. Well, until more of our vendors support
> SFPs on tower based radios.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Jon Langeler" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, March 7, 2016 2:38:04 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?
>
> Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[Mike Hammett]

ToughCable Carrier everywhere. Well, until more of our vendors support SFPs on 
tower based radios. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jon Langeler"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 2:38:04 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6? 

Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers? 

Jon Langeler 
Michwave Technologies, Inc. 

[AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[Jon Langeler]

Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] Tower cat5/6?

[Josh Luthman]

100% Ubiquiti Toughcable Carrier for a couple years now


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Jon Langeler 
wrote:

> Is everyone using 5e or 6 typically at towers? Customers?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450 14.1.2 build 4

[Sean Heskett]

i'm too scared after the 14.1.1 fiasco we went through.

let me know how it goes lol...I might upgrade a couple months after 14.1.2
is out in the wild but i'm too gun shy now.

-sean


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI) <
t...@franklinisp.net> wrote:

> Testing the following firmware.  We see on three sites using 10Mhz
> channels the sms are registering.  No issues on 13.4 or 20Mhz channels.
> Anyone else see this ?
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
>  *Internet Communications Inc.*
>  *739 Commerce Dr.*
>  *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>
>
>
> Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!
>

Re: [AFMUG] The internet of stupid things

[Josh Reynolds]

http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/01/how-to-search-the-internet-of-things-for-photos-of-sleeping-babies/


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
> This will only get worse:
>
> http://blog.apnic.net/2015/04/30/the-internet-of-stupid-things/

Re: [AFMUG] The internet of stupid things

[Mathew Howard]

Judging by some of our customers, yes!

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Was the previous Internet the Internet of stupid people?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Eric Kuhnke" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, March 7, 2016 1:23:33 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] The internet of stupid things
>
> This will only get worse:
>
> http://blog.apnic.net/2015/04/30/the-internet-of-stupid-things/
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] The internet of stupid things

[Mike Hammett]

Was the previous Internet the Internet of stupid people? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 1:23:33 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] The internet of stupid things 


This will only get worse: 
http://blog.apnic.net/2015/04/30/the-internet-of-stupid-things/ 

[AFMUG] The internet of stupid things

[Eric Kuhnke]

This will only get worse:

http://blog.apnic.net/2015/04/30/the-internet-of-stupid-things/

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

[Josh Luthman]

BMG = BMG Rights Management?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> I think we are going to start just following Google's take on DMCA
> notices.  I would like ours to send the customer an email requiring the to
> go to a webpage in the next 7 days or be blocked.  They will then be
> tracked watching a video of sorts that explains why they are watching this
> video.  I would also explain that the company sending the complaint may
> want to settle, but it would be up to the customer to take whatever action
> they deemed appropriate.  Further, I would tell the customer that I would
> not disclose their CPNI without a court order.
>
> This is what they send out
>
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> And then they forward (Insert company here)'s complaint, in this case BMG.
> [image: Inline image 2]
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I hit send too quickly. Here's how to NAT your customers to a range of
>> ports.
>>
>>
>> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Mike Hammett" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, March 7, 2016 12:01:07 PM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>>
>> Perhaps our ticketing systems need an input box where we can copy + paste
>> the ACNS XML into and it files it with the correct customer?
>>
>> If you're NATing your customers, you should be NATing them to a
>> particular range so you can track them easier.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Jon Auer" 
>> *To: *"Animal Farm" 
>> *Sent: *Monday, March 7, 2016 11:32:01 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>>
>> I filled out that survey and then realized that most of the burden comes
>> down to the shi**y state of ticketing systems / backoffice tooling (aside
>> from not being able to file the registered agent form online).
>>
>> Pretty much all the DMCA notices come with ACNS XML. It's easy enough to
>> parse, open tickets on customers, and handle as automatically or manually
>> as you want. For a industry-to-industry self-policing mechanism it's pretty
>> painless.
>>
>> The only DMCA notice we've received *without* ACNS XML came from
>> CitiBank's SOC when one of our shared hosting customers got hacked and was
>> hosting a phishing page with their logo on it.
>>
>> Like most things ISPish the pain comes in the valley between when you
>> start and have so few customers that it's a novelty/doesn't take too much
>> time and when you have so many customers/it's enough of a pain that you
>> automate it.
>> Of course, when the valley is everything between some guy with like 200
>> subs and Comcast there's a lot of people feeling the pain, but the pain
>> shouldn't be there--we should be demanding that our back office
>> ticketing/billing venders provide ACNS parsing.
>>
>> We need to get our collective ducks in a row and manage DMCA well enough
>> that the rights-holders don't get any more bent out of shape and we end up
>> getting served with complaints that have teeth-subpoenas and whatnot.
>>
>> Can't identify customers because NAT?
>> Log the port translations. ACNS includes port numbers.
>> Got people whining about costs of storing NAT logs? C'mon. Storage is
>> cheap. There's no such thing as free lunch and that's the cost of not
>> assigning public addresses to customers.
>>
>> I got 99 problems with DMCA but the takedown process (on the 

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

[Chuck Hogg]

I think we are going to start just following Google's take on DMCA
notices.  I would like ours to send the customer an email requiring the to
go to a webpage in the next 7 days or be blocked.  They will then be
tracked watching a video of sorts that explains why they are watching this
video.  I would also explain that the company sending the complaint may
want to settle, but it would be up to the customer to take whatever action
they deemed appropriate.  Further, I would tell the customer that I would
not disclose their CPNI without a court order.

This is what they send out


[image: Inline image 1]

And then they forward (Insert company here)'s complaint, in this case BMG.
[image: Inline image 2]



Regards,
Chuck

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I hit send too quickly. Here's how to NAT your customers to a range of
> ports.
>
>
> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Mike Hammett" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, March 7, 2016 12:01:07 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
> Perhaps our ticketing systems need an input box where we can copy + paste
> the ACNS XML into and it files it with the correct customer?
>
> If you're NATing your customers, you should be NATing them to a particular
> range so you can track them easier.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Jon Auer" 
> *To: *"Animal Farm" 
> *Sent: *Monday, March 7, 2016 11:32:01 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
> I filled out that survey and then realized that most of the burden comes
> down to the shi**y state of ticketing systems / backoffice tooling (aside
> from not being able to file the registered agent form online).
>
> Pretty much all the DMCA notices come with ACNS XML. It's easy enough to
> parse, open tickets on customers, and handle as automatically or manually
> as you want. For a industry-to-industry self-policing mechanism it's pretty
> painless.
>
> The only DMCA notice we've received *without* ACNS XML came from
> CitiBank's SOC when one of our shared hosting customers got hacked and was
> hosting a phishing page with their logo on it.
>
> Like most things ISPish the pain comes in the valley between when you
> start and have so few customers that it's a novelty/doesn't take too much
> time and when you have so many customers/it's enough of a pain that you
> automate it.
> Of course, when the valley is everything between some guy with like 200
> subs and Comcast there's a lot of people feeling the pain, but the pain
> shouldn't be there--we should be demanding that our back office
> ticketing/billing venders provide ACNS parsing.
>
> We need to get our collective ducks in a row and manage DMCA well enough
> that the rights-holders don't get any more bent out of shape and we end up
> getting served with complaints that have teeth-subpoenas and whatnot.
>
> Can't identify customers because NAT?
> Log the port translations. ACNS includes port numbers.
> Got people whining about costs of storing NAT logs? C'mon. Storage is
> cheap. There's no such thing as free lunch and that's the cost of not
> assigning public addresses to customers.
>
> I got 99 problems with DMCA but the takedown process (on the service
> provider side) ain't one.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Daniel White  wrote:
>
>> WISPA will be filling comments on the recent request for information from
>> the US Copyright Office – specifically on the burden of DMCA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel White
>>
>> afmu...@gmail.com
>>
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Engineers develop flexible skin that traps radar waves, cloaks objects

[Josh Reynolds]

There was a story a few years back about some guys who stole military
paint used for F-117's with the intent to put it on vehicles for drug
smuggling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation-absorbent_material#Iron_ball_paint_absorber

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> ...nevermind, I see how that could be appealing :P
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>>
>> Does your truck often get tracked by radar?
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Wdovech 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> But can I wrap my truck with it?
>>>
>>> On 3/7/2016 10:58 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


 http://m.phys.org/news/2016-03-flexible-skin-radar-cloaks.html

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450 14.1.2 build 4

[Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI)]

Correction: reregs 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net
 
Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

> On Mar 7, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI) 
>  wrote:
> 
> Testing the following firmware.  We see on three sites using 10Mhz channels 
> the sms are registering.  No issues on 13.4 or 20Mhz channels.  Anyone else 
> see this ?
> 
> Tyson Burris, President 
> Internet Communications Inc. 
> 739 Commerce Dr. 
> Franklin, IN 46131 
>   
> 317-738-0320 Daytime # 
> 317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
> Online: www.surfici.net
>  
> Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

[AFMUG] 450 14.1.2 build 4

[Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI)]

Testing the following firmware.  We see on three sites using 10Mhz channels the 
sms are registering.  No issues on 13.4 or 20Mhz channels.  Anyone else see 
this ?

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net
 
Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

Re: [AFMUG] Engineers develop flexible skin that traps radar waves, cloaks objects

[Mike Wdovech]

Only by other vehicles with lights on top.

On 3/7/2016 11:57 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Does your truck often get tracked by radar?

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Wdovech > wrote:


But can I wrap my truck with it?

On 3/7/2016 10:58 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


http://m.phys.org/news/2016-03-flexible-skin-radar-cloaks.html

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

[Mike Hammett]

I hit send too quickly. Here's how to NAT your customers to a range of ports. 

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444
 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 12:01:07 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee 


Perhaps our ticketing systems need an input box where we can copy + paste the 
ACNS XML into and it files it with the correct customer? 

If you're NATing your customers, you should be NATing them to a particular 
range so you can track them easier. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jon Auer"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:32:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee 



I filled out that survey and then realized that most of the burden comes down 
to the shi**y state of ticketing systems / backoffice tooling (aside from not 
being able to file the registered agent form online). 


Pretty much all the DMCA notices come with ACNS XML. It's easy enough to parse, 
open tickets on customers, and handle as automatically or manually as you want. 
For a industry-to-industry self-policing mechanism it's pretty painless. 




The only DMCA notice we've received without ACNS XML came from CitiBank's SOC 
when one of our shared hosting customers got hacked and was hosting a phishing 
page with their logo on it. 



Like most things ISPish the pain comes in the valley between when you start and 
have so few customers that it's a novelty/doesn't take too much time and when 
you have so many customers/it's enough of a pain that you automate it. 
Of course, when the valley is everything between some guy with like 200 subs 
and Comcast there's a lot of people feeling the pain, but the pain shouldn't be 
there--we should be demanding that our back office ticketing/billing venders 
provide ACNS parsing. 


We need to get our collective ducks in a row and manage DMCA well enough that 
the rights-holders don't get any more bent out of shape and we end up getting 
served with complaints that have teeth-subpoenas and whatnot. 


Can't identify customers because NAT? 
Log the port translations. ACNS includes port numbers. 
Got people whining about costs of storing NAT logs? C'mon. Storage is cheap. 
There's no such thing as free lunch and that's the cost of not assigning public 
addresses to customers. 



I got 99 problems with DMCA but the takedown process (on the service provider 
side) ain't one. 



On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Daniel White < afmu...@gmail.com > wrote: 





WISPA will be filling comments on the recent request for information from the 
US Copyright Office – specifically on the burden of DMCA. 


Thank you, 

Daniel White 
afmu...@gmail.com 
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 
Skype: danieldwhite 
Social: LinkedIn : Twitter 




From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 2:10 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee 




And it should prove that we did everything possible to keep our hands clean. 






From: Jeremy 

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:05 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee 




So you actually made them follow up on the message with the copyright holder? 
That seems even more hardcore than disconnecting them. I guess it does have the 
advantage of not losing the customer though. 




On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I had excellent luck in immediate shutdown until they got the copyright holder 
to give me an all clear. I don’t think I ever lost a customer. Some of them 
were down for a week or so at times. 






From: Cassidy B. Larson 

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:49 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee 




We send the notice and call them after to make sure they ack it. On the third 
strike, we suspend their service until they call in. Letting them know at that 
time if we receive future notices it’ll be a $100 administrative fee per notice 
we receive. They usually decide to go elsewhere at that point. 






On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Jeremy < jeremysmi...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Usually we send a couple notices and never hear about it again. They usually 
quit the offending activity, or encrypt their traffic. When they just keep 
going and going we have to do something. 




On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I will never forget the first time I shut somebody off for pirating a movie. 
Porn movie. Turns out to be the kid of a principal of a local school. Dad was 
pretty hot for being shut down until I explained the 

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

[Mike Hammett]

Perhaps our ticketing systems need an input box where we can copy + paste the 
ACNS XML into and it files it with the correct customer? 

If you're NATing your customers, you should be NATing them to a particular 
range so you can track them easier. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jon Auer"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:32:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee 



I filled out that survey and then realized that most of the burden comes down 
to the shi**y state of ticketing systems / backoffice tooling (aside from not 
being able to file the registered agent form online). 


Pretty much all the DMCA notices come with ACNS XML. It's easy enough to parse, 
open tickets on customers, and handle as automatically or manually as you want. 
For a industry-to-industry self-policing mechanism it's pretty painless. 




The only DMCA notice we've received without ACNS XML came from CitiBank's SOC 
when one of our shared hosting customers got hacked and was hosting a phishing 
page with their logo on it. 



Like most things ISPish the pain comes in the valley between when you start and 
have so few customers that it's a novelty/doesn't take too much time and when 
you have so many customers/it's enough of a pain that you automate it. 
Of course, when the valley is everything between some guy with like 200 subs 
and Comcast there's a lot of people feeling the pain, but the pain shouldn't be 
there--we should be demanding that our back office ticketing/billing venders 
provide ACNS parsing. 


We need to get our collective ducks in a row and manage DMCA well enough that 
the rights-holders don't get any more bent out of shape and we end up getting 
served with complaints that have teeth-subpoenas and whatnot. 


Can't identify customers because NAT? 
Log the port translations. ACNS includes port numbers. 
Got people whining about costs of storing NAT logs? C'mon. Storage is cheap. 
There's no such thing as free lunch and that's the cost of not assigning public 
addresses to customers. 



I got 99 problems with DMCA but the takedown process (on the service provider 
side) ain't one. 



On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Daniel White < afmu...@gmail.com > wrote: 





WISPA will be filling comments on the recent request for information from the 
US Copyright Office – specifically on the burden of DMCA. 


Thank you, 

Daniel White 
afmu...@gmail.com 
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 
Skype: danieldwhite 
Social: LinkedIn : Twitter 




From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 2:10 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee 




And it should prove that we did everything possible to keep our hands clean. 






From: Jeremy 

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:05 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee 




So you actually made them follow up on the message with the copyright holder? 
That seems even more hardcore than disconnecting them. I guess it does have the 
advantage of not losing the customer though. 




On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I had excellent luck in immediate shutdown until they got the copyright holder 
to give me an all clear. I don’t think I ever lost a customer. Some of them 
were down for a week or so at times. 






From: Cassidy B. Larson 

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:49 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee 




We send the notice and call them after to make sure they ack it. On the third 
strike, we suspend their service until they call in. Letting them know at that 
time if we receive future notices it’ll be a $100 administrative fee per notice 
we receive. They usually decide to go elsewhere at that point. 






On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Jeremy < jeremysmi...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Usually we send a couple notices and never hear about it again. They usually 
quit the offending activity, or encrypt their traffic. When they just keep 
going and going we have to do something. 




On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I will never forget the first time I shut somebody off for pirating a movie. 
Porn movie. Turns out to be the kid of a principal of a local school. Dad was 
pretty hot for being shut down until I explained the reason. I told him once he 
makes nice with the copyright holder we can turn him back on. I think he was 
worried it would leak into the press or the schoolboard would become aware. 
That never happened. 






From: Jeremy 

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:41 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee 




Yeah, we expect them to switch. We are uninstalling the equipment. I am just 
trying to figure out how long we should ban 

Re: [AFMUG] Engineers develop flexible skin that traps radar waves, cloaks objects

[Mathew Howard]

...nevermind, I see how that could be appealing :P

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Does your truck often get tracked by radar?
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Wdovech 
> wrote:
>
>> But can I wrap my truck with it?
>>
>> On 3/7/2016 10:58 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://m.phys.org/news/2016-03-flexible-skin-radar-cloaks.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Engineers develop flexible skin that traps radar waves, cloaks objects

[Mike Hammett]

It depends how late I am. ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:57:05 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Engineers develop flexible skin that traps radar waves, 
cloaks objects 


Does your truck often get tracked by radar? 



On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Wdovech < mike.wdov...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 


But can I wrap my truck with it? 

On 3/7/2016 10:58 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote: 



http://m.phys.org/news/2016-03-flexible-skin-radar-cloaks.html 

Re: [AFMUG] Engineers develop flexible skin that traps radar waves, cloaks objects

[Mathew Howard]

Does your truck often get tracked by radar?

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Wdovech 
wrote:

> But can I wrap my truck with it?
>
> On 3/7/2016 10:58 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
>>
>> http://m.phys.org/news/2016-03-flexible-skin-radar-cloaks.html
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Engineers develop flexible skin that traps radar waves, cloaks objects

[Mike Wdovech]

But can I wrap my truck with it?

On 3/7/2016 10:58 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


http://m.phys.org/news/2016-03-flexible-skin-radar-cloaks.html

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

[Ken Hohhof]

Talking about transit not hosting, the bulk of notices follow a standard format 
designed to make it easy for you.  Then there are the outliers that want you to 
serve a John Doe with a payment demand or legal threat, without going to the 
trouble to get a court order for the customer’s identity so they can do the 
dirty work themselves.  That’s the only part I have trouble with.  And I’m not 
sure if I want the government to clarify what we should do in those cases, I 
might not like the answer.

The other potential problem in light of the Cox decision is what constitutes an 
acceptable repeat infringer policy.  I think most of us are unlikely to face a 
Cox scenario.  But nowhere did Congress say you couldn’t let ex-customers sign 
back up for X amount of time after being suspended, that didn’t stop the court 
from making that interpretation.  Also the court seemed to feel Cox only cared 
about keeping paying customers because they would mostly try to educate 
customers or give them a stern talking to and multiple chances rather than fire 
them.  Well, duh!  I wonder if at some point the 6 Strikes program will face 
court review, it’s pretty toothless.


From: Jon Auer 
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 11:32 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

I filled out that survey and then realized that most of the burden comes down 
to the shi**y state of ticketing systems / backoffice tooling (aside from not 
being able to file the registered agent form online). 

Pretty much all the DMCA notices come with ACNS XML. It's easy enough to parse, 
open tickets on customers, and handle as automatically or manually as you want. 
For a industry-to-industry self-policing mechanism it's pretty painless.


The only DMCA notice we've received without ACNS XML came from CitiBank's SOC 
when one of our shared hosting customers got hacked and was hosting a phishing 
page with their logo on it.

Like most things ISPish the pain comes in the valley between when you start and 
have so few customers that it's a novelty/doesn't take too much time and when 
you have so many customers/it's enough of a pain that you automate it. 
Of course, when the valley is everything between some guy with like 200 subs 
and Comcast there's a lot of people feeling the pain, but the pain shouldn't be 
there--we should be demanding that our back office ticketing/billing venders 
provide ACNS parsing.

We need to get our collective ducks in a row and manage DMCA well enough that 
the rights-holders don't get any more bent out of shape and we end up getting 
served with complaints that have teeth-subpoenas and whatnot.

Can't identify customers because NAT? 
Log the port translations. ACNS includes port numbers.
Got people whining about costs of storing NAT logs? C'mon. Storage is cheap. 
There's no such thing as free lunch and that's the cost of not assigning public 
addresses to customers.

I got 99 problems with DMCA but the takedown process (on the service provider 
side) ain't one.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Daniel White  wrote:

  WISPA will be filling comments on the recent request for information from the 
US Copyright Office – specifically on the burden of DMCA.



  Thank you,



  Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  Skype: danieldwhite
  Social: LinkedIn: Twitter



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 2:10 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee



  And it should prove that we did everything possible to keep our hands clean.  



  From: Jeremy 

  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:05 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee



  So you actually made them follow up on the message with the copyright holder? 
 That seems even more hardcore than disconnecting them.  I guess it does have 
the advantage of not losing the customer though.



  On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

I had excellent luck in immediate shutdown until they got the copyright 
holder to give me an all clear.  I don’t think I ever lost a customer.  Some of 
them were down for a week or so at times.  



From: Cassidy B. Larson 

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:49 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee



We send the notice and call them after to make sure they ack it.  On the 
third strike, we suspend their service until they call in. Letting them know at 
that time if we receive future notices it’ll be a $100 administrative fee per 
notice we receive.  They usually decide to go elsewhere at that point. 



  On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Jeremy  wrote:



  Usually we send a couple notices and never hear about it again.  They 
usually quit the offending activity, or encrypt their traffic.  When they just 
keep going and going we have to do something.

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

[Jon Auer]

I filled out that survey and then realized that most of the burden comes
down to the shi**y state of ticketing systems / backoffice tooling (aside
from not being able to file the registered agent form online).

Pretty much all the DMCA notices come with ACNS XML. It's easy enough to
parse, open tickets on customers, and handle as automatically or manually
as you want. For a industry-to-industry self-policing mechanism it's pretty
painless.

The only DMCA notice we've received *without* ACNS XML came from CitiBank's
SOC when one of our shared hosting customers got hacked and was hosting a
phishing page with their logo on it.

Like most things ISPish the pain comes in the valley between when you start
and have so few customers that it's a novelty/doesn't take too much time
and when you have so many customers/it's enough of a pain that you automate
it.
Of course, when the valley is everything between some guy with like 200
subs and Comcast there's a lot of people feeling the pain, but the pain
shouldn't be there--we should be demanding that our back office
ticketing/billing venders provide ACNS parsing.

We need to get our collective ducks in a row and manage DMCA well enough
that the rights-holders don't get any more bent out of shape and we end up
getting served with complaints that have teeth-subpoenas and whatnot.

Can't identify customers because NAT?
Log the port translations. ACNS includes port numbers.
Got people whining about costs of storing NAT logs? C'mon. Storage is
cheap. There's no such thing as free lunch and that's the cost of not
assigning public addresses to customers.

I got 99 problems with DMCA but the takedown process (on the service
provider side) ain't one.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Daniel White  wrote:

> WISPA will be filling comments on the recent request for information from
> the US Copyright Office – specifically on the burden of DMCA.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> afmu...@gmail.com
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 2, 2016 2:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
>
>
> And it should prove that we did everything possible to keep our hands
> clean.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeremy 
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:05 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
>
>
> So you actually made them follow up on the message with the copyright
> holder?  That seems even more hardcore than disconnecting them.  I guess it
> does have the advantage of not losing the customer though.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> I had excellent luck in immediate shutdown until they got the copyright
> holder to give me an all clear.  I don’t think I ever lost a customer.
> Some of them were down for a week or so at times.
>
>
>
> *From:* Cassidy B. Larson 
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:49 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
>
>
> We send the notice and call them after to make sure they ack it.  On the
> third strike, we suspend their service until they call in. Letting them
> know at that time if we receive future notices it’ll be a $100
> administrative fee per notice we receive.  They usually decide to go
> elsewhere at that point.
>
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>
>
> Usually we send a couple notices and never hear about it again.  They
> usually quit the offending activity, or encrypt their traffic.  When they
> just keep going and going we have to do something.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> I will never forget the first time I shut somebody off for pirating a
> movie.  Porn movie.  Turns out to be the kid of a principal of a local
> school.  Dad was pretty hot for being shut down until I explained the
> reason.  I told him once he makes nice with the copyright holder we can
> turn him back on.  I think he was worried it would leak into the press or
> the schoolboard would become aware.  That never happened.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeremy 
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:41 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
>
>
> Yeah, we expect them to switch.  We are uninstalling the equipment.  I am
> just trying to figure out how long we should ban them for.  I really don't
> care if they ever come back.  Pirates are a hassle for me, and could
> potentially land any of us in front of a judge.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
> Realistically if you shut me off I would switch to a new provider within a
> day. I don't know 

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Josh Luthman]

Oh I know, I was helping your coffee lacking sentence =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Urban and suburbs are often somewhat similar in demographic and
> deployment in my experience. They have it easy most of the time:
> shorter drive times, installs for the day clustered together, throw up
> a j-arm and a nanobridge or equivalent or a nano and call it a day.
> 3-5 installs per day. Rural is often vastly more different with much
> longer drive times and longer shots, normally on roof tops or side
> mount towers and poles. It takes a more experienced guy to make the
> right / wrong calls on mount placement, shooting through trees, etc.
> 1-3 installs per day.
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Josh Luthman
>  wrote:
> > s/suburban/rural
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Reading my own post, I'm pretty sure I need coffee. :(
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> >> wrote:
> >> > Reading this posts, I'm pretty sure I can pick up here who is rural
> >> > and who is suburban / urban.
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Ty Featherling
> >> >  wrote:
> >> >> 3 a day is a good balance I think. Even though we do more on
> occasion,
> >> >> the
> >> >> sweet spot for us is 3.
> >> >>
> >> >> -Ty
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> -Ty
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:52 AM, John Woodfield
> >> >> 
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The question is finding the balance. The consensus I've heard is
> >> >>> schedule
> >> >>> three a day. I was hoping the average was more but 3 sounds
> >> >>> reasonable.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> John Woodfield, President
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> 410-870-WiFi
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -Original Message-
> >> >>> From: "Ben Royer" 
> >> >>> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:43am
> >> >>> To: af@afmug.com
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job,
> they
> >> >>> are
> >> >>> naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also
> >> >>> negatives.
> >> >>> More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your
> >> >>> company, but
> >> >>> the adverse is your quality of install may be negatively affected by
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> expedited work of the technician.  So if someone is saying their
> >> >>> installer
> >> >>> does 5 installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid by the
> job,
> >> >>> doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a radio
> to
> >> >>> an
> >> >>> elbow, or is this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing,
> >> >>> explains the
> >> >>> install to the customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower,
> >> >>> using
> >> >>> hose clamps and heavy duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks
> up
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> customer’s router and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet
> installs
> >> >>> can
> >> >>> be drastically different, and essentially makes up two different
> >> >>> business
> >> >>> models in our industry.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thank you,
> >> >>> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> >> >>> Royell Communications, Inc.
> >> >>> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
> >> >>>
> >> >>> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
> >> >>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
> >> >>> To: af@afmug.com
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The
> added
> >> >>> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on
> the
> >> >>> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and
> who
> >> >>> > is
> >> >>> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> >> >>> > jobs per day.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks!
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> - Original Message -
> >> >>> From: Jay Weekley
> >> >>> To: af@afmug.com
> >> >>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
> >> >>>
> >> >>> There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
> >> >>> field staff regarding how long something should take.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Ben Royer wrote:
> >> >>> > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our
> >> >>> > company,
> >> >>> > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a
> >> >>> > topic
> >> >>> > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
> >> >>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Josh Reynolds]

Urban and suburbs are often somewhat similar in demographic and
deployment in my experience. They have it easy most of the time:
shorter drive times, installs for the day clustered together, throw up
a j-arm and a nanobridge or equivalent or a nano and call it a day.
3-5 installs per day. Rural is often vastly more different with much
longer drive times and longer shots, normally on roof tops or side
mount towers and poles. It takes a more experienced guy to make the
right / wrong calls on mount placement, shooting through trees, etc.
1-3 installs per day.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> s/suburban/rural
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> Reading my own post, I'm pretty sure I need coffee. :(
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>> > Reading this posts, I'm pretty sure I can pick up here who is rural
>> > and who is suburban / urban.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Ty Featherling
>> >  wrote:
>> >> 3 a day is a good balance I think. Even though we do more on occasion,
>> >> the
>> >> sweet spot for us is 3.
>> >>
>> >> -Ty
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Ty
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:52 AM, John Woodfield
>> >> 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The question is finding the balance. The consensus I've heard is
>> >>> schedule
>> >>> three a day. I was hoping the average was more but 3 sounds
>> >>> reasonable.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> John Woodfield, President
>> >>>
>> >>> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
>> >>>
>> >>> 410-870-WiFi
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -Original Message-
>> >>> From: "Ben Royer" 
>> >>> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:43am
>> >>> To: af@afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>> >>>
>> >>> The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they
>> >>> are
>> >>> naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also
>> >>> negatives.
>> >>> More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your
>> >>> company, but
>> >>> the adverse is your quality of install may be negatively affected by
>> >>> the
>> >>> expedited work of the technician.  So if someone is saying their
>> >>> installer
>> >>> does 5 installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid by the job,
>> >>> doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a radio to
>> >>> an
>> >>> elbow, or is this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing,
>> >>> explains the
>> >>> install to the customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower,
>> >>> using
>> >>> hose clamps and heavy duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up
>> >>> the
>> >>> customer’s router and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs
>> >>> can
>> >>> be drastically different, and essentially makes up two different
>> >>> business
>> >>> models in our industry.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thank you,
>> >>> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
>> >>> Royell Communications, Inc.
>> >>> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>> >>>
>> >>> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
>> >>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
>> >>> To: af@afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
>> >>>
>> >>> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
>> >>> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
>> >>> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who
>> >>> > is
>> >>> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
>> >>> > jobs per day.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> - Original Message -
>> >>> From: Jay Weekley
>> >>> To: af@afmug.com
>> >>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>> >>>
>> >>> There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
>> >>> field staff regarding how long something should take.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ben Royer wrote:
>> >>> > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our
>> >>> > company,
>> >>> > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a
>> >>> > topic
>> >>> > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
>> >>> > always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not
>> >>> > sufficient,
>> >>> > IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that
>> >>> > it
>> >>> > is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job,
>> >>> > IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your
>> >>> > equipment
>> >>> > needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
>> >>> > experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
>> >>> > Granted, this time frame 

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Ben Royer]

That's another good point, is these stats can also be skewed by things like 
who's prequalifying their installs, or for that matter, what your 
'qualifying factors' even are.  The 'standards' a company has are definitely 
going to effect how many installs are done in a day.  It's also going to 
matter if these are all urban LOS installs, or mostly nLOS to NLOS country 
installs.  All good talking points.


Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 11:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

Reading this posts, I'm pretty sure I can pick up here who is rural
and who is suburban / urban.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Ty Featherling  
wrote:

3 a day is a good balance I think. Even though we do more on occasion, the
sweet spot for us is 3.

-Ty



-Ty

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:52 AM, John Woodfield 
wrote:


The question is finding the balance. The consensus I've heard is schedule
three a day. I was hoping the average was more but 3 sounds reasonable.





John Woodfield, President

Delmarva WiFi Inc.

410-870-WiFi



-Original Message-
From: "Ben Royer" 
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:43am
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they are
naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also 
negatives.
More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your company, 
but

the adverse is your quality of install may be negatively affected by the
expedited work of the technician.  So if someone is saying their 
installer

does 5 installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid by the job,
doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a radio to an
elbow, or is this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing, explains 
the

install to the customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower, using
hose clamps and heavy duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up 
the
customer’s router and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs 
can

be drastically different, and essentially makes up two different business
models in our industry.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance


in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?

> way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
> paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> jobs per day.

Thanks!



- Original Message -
From: Jay Weekley
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
field staff regarding how long something should take.

Ben Royer wrote:
> Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our company,
> and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a topic
> brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
> always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient,
> IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that it
> is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job,
> IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment
> needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
> experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
> Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more
> grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we
> typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are
> installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their
> first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two
> fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  It’s a very
> specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On
> average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but
> some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is different, so
> as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no sure
> way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
> paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> jobs per day.
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
> *From:* John Woodfield 

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[John Woodfield]

Rural, 1500 square miles +/-
 
 
John Woodfield, President
Delmarva WiFi Inc.
410-870-WiFi


-Original Message-
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 12:07pm
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance



s/suburban/rural




Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds <[ j...@kyneticwifi.com ]( 
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com )> wrote:
Reading my own post, I'm pretty sure I need coffee. :(

 On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Josh Reynolds <[ j...@kyneticwifi.com ]( 
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com )> wrote:
 > Reading this posts, I'm pretty sure I can pick up here who is rural
 > and who is suburban / urban.
 >
 > On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Ty Featherling <[ tyfeatherl...@gmail.com 
 > ]( mailto:tyfeatherl...@gmail.com )> wrote:


>> 3 a day is a good balance I think. Even though we do more on occasion, the
 >> sweet spot for us is 3.
 >>
 >> -Ty
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> -Ty
 >>
 >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:52 AM, John Woodfield <[ john.woodfi...@jwcn.biz 
 >> ]( mailto:john.woodfi...@jwcn.biz )>
 >> wrote:
 >>>
 >>> The question is finding the balance. The consensus I've heard is schedule
 >>> three a day. I was hoping the average was more but 3 sounds reasonable.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> John Woodfield, President
 >>>
 >>> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
 >>>
 >>> 410-870-WiFi
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> -Original Message-
 >>> From: "Ben Royer" <[ operati...@royell.net ]( mailto:operati...@royell.net 
 >>> )>
 >>> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:43am
 >>> To: [ af@afmug.com ]( mailto:af@afmug.com )
 >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
 >>>
 >>> The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they are
 >>> naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also 
 >>> negatives.
 >>> More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your company, but
 >>> the adverse is your quality of install may be negatively affected by the
 >>> expedited work of the technician.  So if someone is saying their installer
 >>> does 5 installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid by the job,
 >>> doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a radio to an
 >>> elbow, or is this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing, explains the
 >>> install to the customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower, using
 >>> hose clamps and heavy duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up the
 >>> customer’s router and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs can
 >>> be drastically different, and essentially makes up two different business
 >>> models in our industry.
 >>>
 >>> Thank you,
 >>> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
 >>> Royell Communications, Inc.
 >>> [ 217-965-3699 ]( tel:217-965-3699 ) [ www.royell.net ]( 
 >>> http://www.royell.net )
 >>>
 >>> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
 >>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
 >>> To: [ af@afmug.com ]( mailto:af@afmug.com )
 >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
 >>>
 >>> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
 >>> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
 >>> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
 >>> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
 >>> > jobs per day.
 >>>
 >>> Thanks!
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> - Original Message -
 >>> From: Jay Weekley
 >>> To: [ af@afmug.com ]( mailto:af@afmug.com )
 >>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
 >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
 >>>
 >>> There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
 >>> field staff regarding how long something should take.
 >>>
 >>> Ben Royer wrote:
 >>> > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our company,
 >>> > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a topic
 >>> > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
 >>> > always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient,
 >>> > IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that it
 >>> > is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job,
 >>> > IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment
 >>> > needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
 >>> > experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
 >>> > Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more
 >>> > grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we
 >>> > typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are
 >>> > installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their
 >>> > first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two
 >>> > fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Josh Luthman]

s/suburban/rural


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Reading my own post, I'm pretty sure I need coffee. :(
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> > Reading this posts, I'm pretty sure I can pick up here who is rural
> > and who is suburban / urban.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Ty Featherling 
> wrote:
> >> 3 a day is a good balance I think. Even though we do more on occasion,
> the
> >> sweet spot for us is 3.
> >>
> >> -Ty
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Ty
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:52 AM, John Woodfield <
> john.woodfi...@jwcn.biz>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The question is finding the balance. The consensus I've heard is
> schedule
> >>> three a day. I was hoping the average was more but 3 sounds reasonable.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> John Woodfield, President
> >>>
> >>> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
> >>>
> >>> 410-870-WiFi
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: "Ben Royer" 
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:43am
> >>> To: af@afmug.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
> >>>
> >>> The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they
> are
> >>> naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also
> negatives.
> >>> More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your
> company, but
> >>> the adverse is your quality of install may be negatively affected by
> the
> >>> expedited work of the technician.  So if someone is saying their
> installer
> >>> does 5 installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid by the job,
> >>> doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a radio to
> an
> >>> elbow, or is this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing,
> explains the
> >>> install to the customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower,
> using
> >>> hose clamps and heavy duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up
> the
> >>> customer’s router and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs
> can
> >>> be drastically different, and essentially makes up two different
> business
> >>> models in our industry.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you,
> >>> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> >>> Royell Communications, Inc.
> >>> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
> >>>
> >>> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
> >>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
> >>> To: af@afmug.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
> >>>
> >>> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> >>> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> >>> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who
> is
> >>> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> >>> > jobs per day.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - Original Message -
> >>> From: Jay Weekley
> >>> To: af@afmug.com
> >>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
> >>>
> >>> There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
> >>> field staff regarding how long something should take.
> >>>
> >>> Ben Royer wrote:
> >>> > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our
> company,
> >>> > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a
> topic
> >>> > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
> >>> > always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient,
> >>> > IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that
> it
> >>> > is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job,
> >>> > IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment
> >>> > needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
> >>> > experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
> >>> > Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more
> >>> > grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we
> >>> > typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are
> >>> > installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their
> >>> > first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two
> >>> > fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  It’s a very
> >>> > specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On
> >>> > average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but
> >>> > some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is different,
> so
> >>> > as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no sure
> >>> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> >>> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> >>> > productivity 

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[George Skorup]

We had contractors years ago and ended up with these exact issues. We 
had standards, they didn't listen, got rid of them. Same reason we don't 
use contractors for tower work either. Tried it once, wasn't a good 
idea, never again. It is much easier to demand quality work from employees.


On 3/7/2016 10:43 AM, Ben Royer wrote:
The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they 
are naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also 
negatives.  More installs done in a day may equate to more income for 
your company, but the adverse is your quality of install may be 
negatively affected by the expedited work of the technician.  So if 
someone is saying their installer does 5 installs in a day, is this an 
installer that’s paid by the job, doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, 
and only has to zip tie a radio to an elbow, or is this a guy that’s 
paid hourly, does site testing, explains the install to the customer, 
installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower, using hose clamps and heavy 
duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up the customer’s router 
and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs can be 
drastically different, and essentially makes up two different business 
models in our industry.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net
*From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
*Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
> way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
> paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> jobs per day.
Thanks!

- Original Message -
*From:* Jay Weekley 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
field staff regarding how long something should take.

Ben Royer wrote:
> Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our
company,
> and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a
topic
> brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
> always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not
sufficient,
> IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled. Scheduling argues
that it
> is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the
job,
> IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your
equipment
> needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
> experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
> Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more
> grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we
> typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are
> installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their
> first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two
> fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations. It’s a very
> specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On
> average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but
> some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is
different, so
> as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no
sure
> way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and
who is
> paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> jobs per day.
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net 
> *From:* John Woodfield 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:56 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com  
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
> How many new installs can your guys get done in a day on average
with
> a single-man crew?
>
> John Woodfield, President
>
> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
>
> 410-870-WiFi
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Josh Reynolds]

Reading my own post, I'm pretty sure I need coffee. :(

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> Reading this posts, I'm pretty sure I can pick up here who is rural
> and who is suburban / urban.
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Ty Featherling  
> wrote:
>> 3 a day is a good balance I think. Even though we do more on occasion, the
>> sweet spot for us is 3.
>>
>> -Ty
>>
>>
>>
>> -Ty
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:52 AM, John Woodfield 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The question is finding the balance. The consensus I've heard is schedule
>>> three a day. I was hoping the average was more but 3 sounds reasonable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Woodfield, President
>>>
>>> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
>>>
>>> 410-870-WiFi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: "Ben Royer" 
>>> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:43am
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>>>
>>> The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they are
>>> naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also negatives.
>>> More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your company, but
>>> the adverse is your quality of install may be negatively affected by the
>>> expedited work of the technician.  So if someone is saying their installer
>>> does 5 installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid by the job,
>>> doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a radio to an
>>> elbow, or is this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing, explains the
>>> install to the customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower, using
>>> hose clamps and heavy duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up the
>>> customer’s router and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs can
>>> be drastically different, and essentially makes up two different business
>>> models in our industry.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
>>> Royell Communications, Inc.
>>> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>>>
>>> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>>>
>>>
>>> in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
>>>
>>> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
>>> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
>>> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
>>> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
>>> > jobs per day.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Jay Weekley
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>>>
>>> There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
>>> field staff regarding how long something should take.
>>>
>>> Ben Royer wrote:
>>> > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our company,
>>> > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a topic
>>> > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
>>> > always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient,
>>> > IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that it
>>> > is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job,
>>> > IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment
>>> > needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
>>> > experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
>>> > Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more
>>> > grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we
>>> > typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are
>>> > installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their
>>> > first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two
>>> > fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  It’s a very
>>> > specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On
>>> > average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but
>>> > some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is different, so
>>> > as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no sure
>>> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
>>> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
>>> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
>>> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
>>> > jobs per day.
>>> > Thank you,
>>> > Ben Royer, Operations Manager
>>> > Royell Communications, Inc.
>>> > 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>>> > *From:* John Woodfield 
>>> > *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:56 AM
>>> > *To:* af@afmug.com 
>>> > *Subject:* [AFMUG] 

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Josh Reynolds]

Reading this posts, I'm pretty sure I can pick up here who is rural
and who is suburban / urban.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Ty Featherling  wrote:
> 3 a day is a good balance I think. Even though we do more on occasion, the
> sweet spot for us is 3.
>
> -Ty
>
>
>
> -Ty
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:52 AM, John Woodfield 
> wrote:
>>
>> The question is finding the balance. The consensus I've heard is schedule
>> three a day. I was hoping the average was more but 3 sounds reasonable.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Woodfield, President
>>
>> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
>>
>> 410-870-WiFi
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Ben Royer" 
>> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:43am
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>>
>> The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they are
>> naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also negatives.
>> More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your company, but
>> the adverse is your quality of install may be negatively affected by the
>> expedited work of the technician.  So if someone is saying their installer
>> does 5 installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid by the job,
>> doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a radio to an
>> elbow, or is this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing, explains the
>> install to the customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower, using
>> hose clamps and heavy duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up the
>> customer’s router and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs can
>> be drastically different, and essentially makes up two different business
>> models in our industry.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
>> Royell Communications, Inc.
>> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>>
>> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>>
>>
>> in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
>>
>> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
>> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
>> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
>> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
>> > jobs per day.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Jay Weekley
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>>
>> There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
>> field staff regarding how long something should take.
>>
>> Ben Royer wrote:
>> > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our company,
>> > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a topic
>> > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
>> > always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient,
>> > IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that it
>> > is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job,
>> > IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment
>> > needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
>> > experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
>> > Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more
>> > grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we
>> > typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are
>> > installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their
>> > first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two
>> > fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  It’s a very
>> > specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On
>> > average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but
>> > some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is different, so
>> > as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no sure
>> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
>> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
>> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
>> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
>> > jobs per day.
>> > Thank you,
>> > Ben Royer, Operations Manager
>> > Royell Communications, Inc.
>> > 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>> > *From:* John Woodfield 
>> > *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:56 AM
>> > *To:* af@afmug.com 
>> > *Subject:* [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>> >
>> > How many new installs can your guys get done in a day on average with
>> > a single-man crew?
>> >
>> > John Woodfield, President
>> >
>> > Delmarva WiFi Inc.
>> >
>> > 410-870-WiFi
>> >
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Ty Featherling]

3 a day is a good balance I think. Even though we do more on occasion, the
sweet spot for us is 3.

-Ty



-Ty

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:52 AM, John Woodfield 
wrote:

> The question is finding the balance. The consensus I've heard is schedule
> three a day. I was hoping the average was more but 3 sounds reasonable.
>
>
>
>
>
> John Woodfield, President
>
> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
>
> 410-870-WiFi
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Ben Royer" 
> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:43am
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
> The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they are
> naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also
> negatives.  More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your
> company, but the adverse is your quality of install may be negatively
> affected by the expedited work of the technician.  So if someone is saying
> their installer does 5 installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid
> by the job, doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a
> radio to an elbow, or is this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing,
> explains the install to the customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a
> tower, using hose clamps and heavy duty brackets, then installs grounding,
> hooks up the customer’s router and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet
> installs can be drastically different, and essentially makes up two
> different business models in our industry.
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
>
> in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
>
> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> > jobs per day.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Jay Weekley 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
> There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
> field staff regarding how long something should take.
>
> Ben Royer wrote:
> > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our company,
> > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a topic
> > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
> > always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient,
> > IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that it
> > is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job,
> > IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment
> > needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
> > experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
> > Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more
> > grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we
> > typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are
> > installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their
> > first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two
> > fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  It’s a very
> > specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On
> > average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but
> > some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is different, so
> > as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no sure
> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> > jobs per day.
> > Thank you,
> > Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> > Royell Communications, Inc.
> > 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
> > *From:* John Woodfield  >
> > *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:56 AM
> > *To:* af@afmug.com >
> > *Subject:* [AFMUG] Installer Performance
> >
> > How many new installs can your guys get done in a day on average with
> > a single-man crew?
> >
> > John Woodfield, President
> >
> > Delmarva WiFi Inc.
> >
> > 410-870-WiFi
> >
>
>

[AFMUG] Engineers develop flexible skin that traps radar waves, cloaks objects

[Jaime Solorza]

http://m.phys.org/news/2016-03-flexible-skin-radar-cloaks.html

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Jeremy]

We do 2 a day in the winter and 3 a day the rest of the year.  The frost
doesn't usually thaw off the roofs until about 10am.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 9:52 AM, John Woodfield 
wrote:

> The question is finding the balance. The consensus I've heard is schedule
> three a day. I was hoping the average was more but 3 sounds reasonable.
>
>
>
>
>
> John Woodfield, President
>
> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
>
> 410-870-WiFi
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Ben Royer" 
> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:43am
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
> The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they are
> naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also
> negatives.  More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your
> company, but the adverse is your quality of install may be negatively
> affected by the expedited work of the technician.  So if someone is saying
> their installer does 5 installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid
> by the job, doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a
> radio to an elbow, or is this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing,
> explains the install to the customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a
> tower, using hose clamps and heavy duty brackets, then installs grounding,
> hooks up the customer’s router and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet
> installs can be drastically different, and essentially makes up two
> different business models in our industry.
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
>
> in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
>
> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> > jobs per day.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Jay Weekley 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
> There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
> field staff regarding how long something should take.
>
> Ben Royer wrote:
> > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our company,
> > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a topic
> > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
> > always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient,
> > IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that it
> > is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job,
> > IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment
> > needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
> > experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
> > Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more
> > grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we
> > typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are
> > installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their
> > first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two
> > fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  It’s a very
> > specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On
> > average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but
> > some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is different, so
> > as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no sure
> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> > jobs per day.
> > Thank you,
> > Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> > Royell Communications, Inc.
> > 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
> > *From:* John Woodfield  >
> > *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:56 AM
> > *To:* af@afmug.com >
> > *Subject:* [AFMUG] Installer Performance
> >
> > How many new installs can your guys get done in a day on average with
> > a single-man crew?
> >
> > John Woodfield, President
> >
> > Delmarva WiFi Inc.
> >
> > 410-870-WiFi
> >
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[John Woodfield]

The question is finding the balance. The consensus I've heard is schedule three 
a day. I was hoping the average was more but 3 sounds reasonable.
 
 
John Woodfield, President
Delmarva WiFi Inc.
410-870-WiFi


-Original Message-
From: "Ben Royer" 
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 11:43am
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance





The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they are 
naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also negatives.  
More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your company, but the 
adverse is your quality of install may be negatively affected by the expedited 
work of the technician.  So if someone is saying their installer does 5 
installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid by the job, doesn’t do 
grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a radio to an elbow, or is 
this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing, explains the install to the 
customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower, using hose clamps and heavy 
duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up the customer’s router and 
XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs can be drastically different, 
and essentially makes up two different business models in our industry.
 
Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net


 

From: [ CBB - Jay Fuller ]( mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net )
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
To: [ af@afmug.com ]( mailto:af@afmug.com )
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
 


in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
 
> way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added 
> factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the 
> productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is 
> paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in 
> jobs per day.
 
Thanks!
 
 
- Original Message -
From: [ Jay Weekley ]( mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net )
To: [ af@afmug.com ]( mailto:af@afmug.com )
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
 There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the 
field staff regarding how long something should take.

Ben Royer wrote:
> Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our company, 
> and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a topic 
> brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is 
> always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient, 
> IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that it 
> is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job, 
> IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment 
> needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of 
> experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.  
> Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more 
> grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we 
> typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are 
> installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their 
> first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two 
> fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  It’s a very 
> specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On 
> average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but 
> some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is different, so 
> as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no sure 
> way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added 
> factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the 
> productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is 
> paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in 
> jobs per day.
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 [ www.royell.net ]( http://www.royell.net )
> *From:* John Woodfield <[ mailto:john.woodfi...@jwcn.biz ]( 
> mailto:john.woodfi...@jwcn.biz )>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:56 AM
> *To:* [ af@afmug.com ]( mailto:af@afmug.com ) <[ mailto:af@afmug.com ]( 
> mailto:af@afmug.com )>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
> How many new installs can your guys get done in a day on average with 
> a single-man crew?
>
> John Woodfield, President
>
> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
>
> 410-870-WiFi
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Adam Moffett]

Dish Network pays by the job.but they have people go back and double 
check your work and then take your money away if they don't like what 
they see.  And the installing contractor is on the hook for failures 
within a period of time --I think one year.


They do that for all the reasons you said below.  Pay by the job == low 
quality.


On 3/7/2016 11:43 AM, Ben Royer wrote:
The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they 
are naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also 
negatives.  More installs done in a day may equate to more income for 
your company, but the adverse is your quality of install may be 
negatively affected by the expedited work of the technician.  So if 
someone is saying their installer does 5 installs in a day, is this an 
installer that’s paid by the job, doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, 
and only has to zip tie a radio to an elbow, or is this a guy that’s 
paid hourly, does site testing, explains the install to the customer, 
installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower, using hose clamps and heavy 
duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up the customer’s router 
and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs can be 
drastically different, and essentially makes up two different business 
models in our industry.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net
*From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
*Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
> way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
> paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> jobs per day.
Thanks!

- Original Message -
*From:* Jay Weekley 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
field staff regarding how long something should take.

Ben Royer wrote:
> Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our
company,
> and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a
topic
> brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
> always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not
sufficient,
> IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled. Scheduling argues
that it
> is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the
job,
> IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your
equipment
> needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
> experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
> Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more
> grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we
> typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are
> installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their
> first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two
> fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations. It’s a very
> specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On
> average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but
> some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is
different, so
> as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no
sure
> way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and
who is
> paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> jobs per day.
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net 
> *From:* John Woodfield 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:56 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com  
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
> How many new installs can your guys get done in a day on average
with
> a single-man crew?
>
> John Woodfield, President
>
> Delmarva WiFi Inc.
>
> 410-870-WiFi
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Ty Featherling]

Our guys do all of these things save hooking up customer equipment. We draw
the line at connecting the internet to their router. They are paid hourly
too, not by the job.

-Ty



-Ty

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Ben Royer  wrote:

> The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they are
> naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also
> negatives.  More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your
> company, but the adverse is your quality of install may be negatively
> affected by the expedited work of the technician.  So if someone is saying
> their installer does 5 installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid
> by the job, doesn’t do grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a
> radio to an elbow, or is this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing,
> explains the install to the customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a
> tower, using hose clamps and heavy duty brackets, then installs grounding,
> hooks up the customer’s router and XBox, etc.  These two types of internet
> installs can be drastically different, and essentially makes up two
> different business models in our industry.
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
>
> in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?
>
> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> > jobs per day.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Jay Weekley 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance
>
> There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the
> field staff regarding how long something should take.
>
> Ben Royer wrote:
> > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our company,
> > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a topic
> > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is
> > always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient,
> > IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that it
> > is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job,
> > IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment
> > needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of
> > experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.
> > Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more
> > grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we
> > typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are
> > installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their
> > first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two
> > fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  It’s a very
> > specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On
> > average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but
> > some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is different, so
> > as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no sure
> > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added
> > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the
> > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is
> > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in
> > jobs per day.
> > Thank you,
> > Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> > Royell Communications, Inc.
> > 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
> > *From:* John Woodfield  >
> > *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:56 AM
> > *To:* af@afmug.com >
> > *Subject:* [AFMUG] Installer Performance
> >
> > How many new installs can your guys get done in a day on average with
> > a single-man crew?
> >
> > John Woodfield, President
> >
> > Delmarva WiFi Inc.
> >
> > 410-870-WiFi
> >
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Chuck McCown]

When we paid by the job we had lots of complaints from customers.  

From: Ben Royer 
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 9:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they are 
naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also negatives.  
More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your company, but the 
adverse is your quality of install may be negatively affected by the expedited 
work of the technician.  So if someone is saying their installer does 5 
installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid by the job, doesn’t do 
grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a radio to an elbow, or is 
this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing, explains the install to the 
customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower, using hose clamps and heavy 
duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up the customer’s router and 
XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs can be drastically different, 
and essentially makes up two different business models in our industry.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance


in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?

> way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added 
> factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the 
> productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is 
> paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in 
> jobs per day.


Thanks!


  - Original Message - 
  From: Jay Weekley 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

  There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the 
  field staff regarding how long something should take.

  Ben Royer wrote:
  > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our company, 
  > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a topic 
  > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is 
  > always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient, 
  > IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that it 
  > is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job, 
  > IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment 
  > needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of 
  > experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.  
  > Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more 
  > grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we 
  > typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are 
  > installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their 
  > first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two 
  > fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  It’s a very 
  > specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On 
  > average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but 
  > some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is different, so 
  > as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no sure 
  > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added 
  > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the 
  > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is 
  > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in 
  > jobs per day.
  > Thank you,
  > Ben Royer, Operations Manager
  > Royell Communications, Inc.
  > 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
  > *From:* John Woodfield 
  > *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:56 AM
  > *To:* af@afmug.com 
  > *Subject:* [AFMUG] Installer Performance
  >
  > How many new installs can your guys get done in a day on average with 
  > a single-man crew?
  >
  > John Woodfield, President
  >
  > Delmarva WiFi Inc.
  >
  > 410-870-WiFi
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

[Ben Royer]

The basic thought process is if you pay a technician by the job, they are 
naturally going to work faster, this could have benefits but also negatives.  
More installs done in a day may equate to more income for your company, but the 
adverse is your quality of install may be negatively affected by the expedited 
work of the technician.  So if someone is saying their installer does 5 
installs in a day, is this an installer that’s paid by the job, doesn’t do 
grounding, cuts corners, and only has to zip tie a radio to an elbow, or is 
this a guy that’s paid hourly, does site testing, explains the install to the 
customer, installs the radio on a pipe, on a tower, using hose clamps and heavy 
duty brackets, then installs grounding, hooks up the customer’s router and 
XBox, etc.  These two types of internet installs can be drastically different, 
and essentially makes up two different business models in our industry.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance


in the below discussion - what are you thoughts in detail on this?

> way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added 
> factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the 
> productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is 
> paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in 
> jobs per day.


Thanks!


  - Original Message - 
  From: Jay Weekley 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Installer Performance

  There does seem to be a disconnect between the office staff and the 
  field staff regarding how long something should take.

  Ben Royer wrote:
  > Interesting topic of conversation.  We run 1 man crews at our company, 
  > and it’s interesting to see this discussion as it’s constantly a topic 
  > brought up by both dispatch and the field techs.  The argument is 
  > always made that the allotted time frame for a job is not sufficient, 
  > IE: jobs always take longer than scheduled.  Scheduling argues that it 
  > is, however we need to operate more efficiently while doing the job, 
  > IE: get there on time, cut down on chit chat, have all your equipment 
  > needed, etc.  The calendar has been setup based on 16 years of 
  > experience of doing installs, and it’s an average based time frame.  
  > Granted, this time frame was increased when we started doing more 
  > grounding, etc. Currently, we allow for 2 hour windows, where we 
  > typically schedule a morning job, and and afternoon job, both are 
  > installs, then we squeeze in repairs or other onsites after their 
  > first morning job, or after their afternoon job, or we schedule two 
  > fixes, one install in a day, or other combinations.  It’s a very 
  > specific structure that our dispatching department follows.  On 
  > average, I’d say our guys complete 2 installs and 1 fix a day, but 
  > some guys are a little quicker than others.  Each job is different, so 
  > as I am often reminding both the techs and dispatch, there’s no sure 
  > way of predicting the amount of time to allow for a job.  The added 
  > factor to everyone’s answer that I would think has an effect on the 
  > productivity times is who is paying their techs hourly +OT, and who is 
  > paying their techs per job?  That to me can have a major factor in 
  > jobs per day.
  > Thank you,
  > Ben Royer, Operations Manager
  > Royell Communications, Inc.
  > 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
  > *From:* John Woodfield 
  > *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2016 10:56 AM
  > *To:* af@afmug.com 
  > *Subject:* [AFMUG] Installer Performance
  >
  > How many new installs can your guys get done in a day on average with 
  > a single-man crew?
  >
  > John Woodfield, President
  >
  > Delmarva WiFi Inc.
  >
  > 410-870-WiFi
  >

Re: [AFMUG] anyone watching the debates

[Dan Petermann]

Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho for President!


On Mar 5, 2016, at 2:58 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> vote for Pedro
> 
> Sent from Outlook Mobile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 1:48 PM -0800, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
> 
> The whole field gags me.  There is nobody to vote for this year. 
>  
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 11:37 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] anyone watching the debates
>  
> I'm still looking for that garage.
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 3/4/2016 12:42 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>> i was harmed by your statements and will need reparations
>>  
>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>> I didn't ask anyone to believe what I believe, I encouraged people to
>> check out specific facts for themselves. Stating my personal opinions
>> has no bearing on previous or current documented behavior by any
>> candidate or group of candidates.
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>> > No, you are just repeating the opposition's talking points about each
>> > one...something you asked everyone not to believe about the guy you 
>> > support.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Not once did I mention truth or untruth about their stances or records
>> >> other than Sanders, simply my feelings which are relative.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>> >> > Josh writes:
>> >> > "Fact check it for yourself here, don't just listen to talking points:
>> >> >
>> >> > https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/27110/bernie-sanders/66/veterans
>> >> > "
>> >> > but then goes on the ad-hominem attack with :
>> >> >
>> >> > " Trump is a clown,
>> >> > Cruz is a sociopath, Rubio is a weakling, Carson is a brilliant brain
>> >> > surgeon who has written many groundbreaking papers in his field but is
>> >> > kind of an idiot outside of his niche. Sanders may want to go too far,
>> >> > and Clinton is - simply scary."
>> >> >
>> >> > Pot, meet kettle.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You mean countries like...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Denmark
>> >> >> Finland
>> >> >> Netherlands
>> >> >> Canada
>> >> >> Sweden
>> >> >> Norway
>> >> >> Ireland
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Countries with some of the highest levels of education, healthcare,
>> >> >> standard of living, low crime rates, and longest life expectancies?
>> >> >> The REPUBLIC of the United States has, since inception, been a mix of
>> >> >> many different types government policies. Hell a lot of the things FDR
>> >> >> did were VERY socialist, and they worked very well in the United
>> >> >> States.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You pick between things that can work on an individual basis. Throwing
>> >> >> the baby out with the bathwater is foolish. Making the future of the
>> >> >> country a Democratic vs Republican issue is also foolish. The FBI
>> >> >> needs to finish their investigation of Clinton quickly and do the
>> >> >> right thing (whatever that may be). Her as well as the American people
>> >> >> deserve this thing to be over one way or the other. Trump is a clown,
>> >> >> Cruz is a sociopath, Rubio is a weakling, Carson is a brilliant brain
>> >> >> surgeon who has written many groundbreaking papers in his field but is
>> >> >> kind of an idiot outside of his niche. Sanders may want to go too far,
>> >> >> and Clinton is - simply scary.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> For those of us riding the middle ground here, this is all a "shit
>> >> >> sandwich" (technical term)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Rory Conaway 
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > Josh, the problem with Bernie is we do trust him. We trust him to
>> >> >> > bring
>> >> >> > back socialism.  Based on what happens to every socialist country,
>> >> >> > especially Venezuela, Russia, Greece, Spain, etc...  I'm not inclined
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > vote for a guy that is going to make me stand in line for toilet
>> >> >> > paper.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Rory
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > -Original Message-
>> >> >> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 9:29 AM
>> >> >> > To: af@afmug.com
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] anyone watching the debates
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Fact check it for yourself here, don't just listen to talking points:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/27110/bernie-sanders/66/veterans
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ---
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "McCain said the Vermont senator, who is competing with Clinton for
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > Democratic presidential nomination next year, worked hard for
>> >> >> > veterans in
>> >> >> > his role as chairman of the Veterans’ Affairs