Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Jeremy]

Sounds like a cool device.  Excited to see the finished project.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 9:04 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> It is the mixed rail that seems to be the interesting part.  I have been
> asked multiple times.
>
> *From:* George Skorup 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 8:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
> In all honesty, we won't ever use it. Remote power control per
> device/radio via one PacketFlux device or another is what we do everywhere.
>
> I'm sure someone will use it, so don't take my narrow-minded opinion to
> heart.
>
> I do have one question about the APC cards. Would it be possible to flip
> the RJ45s around so that the tab faces away from the board? That is
> probably the only complaint I have with them.
>
> On 3/21/2016 9:36 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Yes, it is an alternate form factor.
> May as well spill the beans.
>
> Something Gino asked for a couple of years ago but never found the
> solution until recently.
>
> I have a 24 position rack mount, same size as the 4 position DIN I sell
> now.
> I am putting a power back plane in it.  It will have 4 separate isolated
> power buses.
>
> Couldn’t find the power bus connectors I wanted until lately.
> Actually they were available but only in bulk.   They recently packaged
> them so my pick n place machine could put them on the board.
>
> So you can mix 4 different POE voltages in each rack.  A/B powering.
> Two common point powering connectors in the back.  Diode combiner.
> You only need one if  you only have one source of power.
>
> Mix –48 and +48 and 24 and 12 all in the same rack.
> No wires going to each individual GIGE-POE-APC.
>
> The surge suppressor will be the GIGE-POE-PRM
>
> *From:* Jeremy 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 7:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
> I am perfectly happy with the GIGE-POE-APC the way it is now.  I haven't
> lost one in three years.  Is this finding a solution to a problem that
> doesn't exist?
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Chuck McCown < 
> ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> It is also a POE inserter.
>>
>> *From:* George Skorup 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 4:40 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>
>> Let a surge suppressor be a surge suppressor. I will handle the
>> over-current externally (fuses, PacketFlux electronic, etc).
>>
>> On 3/21/2016 3:37 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, I am coming to that conclusion I think.
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>
>>
>> You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse.  Because the trip is
>> related to heating which is related to current it will trip much faster in
>> many circumstances. ...  however the trip current varies widely with
>> ambient temperature as well.
>>
>> I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which will
>> protect Ethernet magnetics.
>> On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown" < 
>> ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or
>>> wiring would be the cause.
>>>
>>> The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to
>>> protect the power supply and other loads in parallel.
>>> Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.
>>>
>>> If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off
>>> the same power supply.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>>
>>>
>>> Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown" < 
>>> ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>
 Well, they have their downside.
 A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
 A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
 More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.

 But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a
 replacement fuse.
 I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should
 come back to full brightness.

 Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.

 *From:* Josh Luthman 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

 Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Mon, Mar 21, 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Yep 

And the lesser publicized facts well known on the other side of the world in 
regards to the Iraq WMD' are ...

"Well, how do we know they have WMD's. Well because we supplied the 
Centerfuges and all the stuff to make those WMD's (so that Iraq could use those 
against the Iranians). Guess who was the emissary who delivered them ?  
Mr. Rumsfeld himself !"

" Well why did Saddam over run Kuwait ?  Well he asked Madam Secretary 
(Madeline Albright) about their (Iraq's) dispute with KuwaitGuess what here 
reply was... 'We don't care how you deal with your problem there' Hmmm 
so now you can understand why Saddam was so confused when the US attacked Iraq 
for attacking Kuwait ?"

Interesting to note that everything for that war was paid by the Arabs in the 
Middle East a nice boondoggle for all the Industries that supply for the 
Services !

Meanwhile who paid the price The US Solders and the common people of that 
part of the world... No sweat for the politicians and the Corporate 
Industrialist... it was not any skin off their nose..


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom


- Original Message -
> From: "Josh Reynolds" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:11:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> Hi.
> 
> Inside the US military itself, China is considered an ally nation.
> Even this past year we decided to start holding joint land-based
> exercises with them - previously they were limited to naval exercises.
> It's an opportunity to test co-readiness (ally full spectrum
> operations), as well as judge their competence (intelligence).
> 
> Without getting into specifics, they are on the long term "watch them
> / potential threat" list simply because of the size their manpower,
> but they are not considered a nation of immediate threat to us or our
> G8 allies in the general sense. There are certain issues we are not
> happy with them on such as their fondness for island nations and
> territorial claims. Even the "stolen" Chengdu J-20 is more of a 3rd
> gen fighter design than a 5th (about 20-25 years behind).
> 
> Despite all this, there are many well financially and politically
> backed think tanks that are excellent at wargaming scenarios and
> creating massive amounts of FUD - this creates more contributions for
> them, entrenches their clout, and creates a certain type of fearful
> competition to drive policy decisions in favor of the defense complex.
> 
> Interesting notes about a fairly recent situation:
> 
> "In a study published in 2005,[120] a group of researchers assessed
> the effects reports and retractions in the media had on people's
> memory regarding the search for WMD in Iraq during the 2003 Iraq War.
> The study focused on populations in two coalition countries (Australia
> and USA) and one opposed to the war (Germany). This led to three
> conclusions:
> 
> The repetition of tentative news stories, even if they are
> subsequently disconfirmed, can assist in the creation of false
> memories in a substantial proportion of people.
> 
> Once information is published, its subsequent correction does not
> alter people's beliefs unless they are suspicious about the motives
> underlying the events the news stories are about.
> 
> When people ignore corrections, they do so irrespective of how certain
> they are that the corrections occurred.
> 
> A poll conducted between June and September 2003 asked people whether
> they thought evidence of WMD had been discovered in Iraq since the war
> ended. They were also asked which media sources they relied upon.
> Those who obtained their news primarily from Fox News were three times
> as likely to believe that evidence of WMD had been discovered in Iraq
> than those who relied on PBS and NPR for their news, and one third
> more likely than those who primarily watched CBS."
> Source : Psycological Science Journal
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/10./(ISSN)1467-9280
> 
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 8:42 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:
>> I don’t read what you are interpreting but I will attempt to make it more
>> clear.  The Chinese government targets specific industries that are in their
>> best interest either militarily or economically.  If they do not have
>> sufficient business infrastructure within the country to meet their needs,
>> they create it, hence Huawei.  Why do you think we used to call it Japan,
>> Inc.  for the longest time.  They invented the idea.  And Faisal, you can
>> keep your head in the sand about what’s really happening in China but I
>> suggest you start pulling declassified reports, understand the concept of
>> String of Pearls as it was accidentally leaked back in the 90’s, and spend
>> some time at security briefings.  Your interpretation of what China’s goals
>> are on many fronts simply just doesn’t jive with the facts.  I feel you are
>> missing a lot of information and drawing an incorrect 

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Chuck McCown]

It is the mixed rail that seems to be the interesting part.  I have been asked 
multiple times.  

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

In all honesty, we won't ever use it. Remote power control per device/radio via 
one PacketFlux device or another is what we do everywhere.

I'm sure someone will use it, so don't take my narrow-minded opinion to heart.

I do have one question about the APC cards. Would it be possible to flip the 
RJ45s around so that the tab faces away from the board? That is probably the 
only complaint I have with them.


On 3/21/2016 9:36 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Yes, it is an alternate form factor.
  May as well spill the beans.  

  Something Gino asked for a couple of years ago but never found the solution 
until recently.

  I have a 24 position rack mount, same size as the 4 position DIN I sell now.
  I am putting a power back plane in it.  It will have 4 separate isolated 
power buses.  

  Couldn’t find the power bus connectors I wanted until lately.  
  Actually they were available but only in bulk.   They recently packaged them 
so my pick n place machine could put them on the board.  

  So you can mix 4 different POE voltages in each rack.  A/B powering.  
  Two common point powering connectors in the back.  Diode combiner.
  You only need one if  you only have one source of power.

  Mix –48 and +48 and 24 and 12 all in the same rack.  
  No wires going to each individual GIGE-POE-APC. 

  The surge suppressor will be the GIGE-POE-PRM

  From: Jeremy 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 7:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  I am perfectly happy with the GIGE-POE-APC the way it is now.  I haven't lost 
one in three years.  Is this finding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?

  On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

It is also a POE inserter.

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 4:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Let a surge suppressor be a surge suppressor. I will handle the 
over-current externally (fuses, PacketFlux electronic, etc).


On 3/21/2016 3:37 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Yeah, I am coming to that conclusion I think.  

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse.  Because the trip is 
related to heating which is related to current it will trip much faster in many 
circumstances. ...  however the trip current varies widely with ambient 
temperature as well. 

  I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which will 
protect Ethernet magnetics. 

  On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or 
wiring would be the cause.

The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to  
protect the power supply and other loads in parallel.
Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.  

If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off 
the same power supply.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Well, they have their downside.
  A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
  A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.  
  More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.  

  But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a 
replacement fuse.  
  I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED 
should come back to full brightness.  

  Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and 
fuse holders are more money.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Most of ours are now the 

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[George Skorup]

In all honesty, we won't ever use it. Remote power control per 
device/radio via one PacketFlux device or another is what we do everywhere.


I'm sure someone will use it, so don't take my narrow-minded opinion to 
heart.


I do have one question about the APC cards. Would it be possible to flip 
the RJ45s around so that the tab faces away from the board? That is 
probably the only complaint I have with them.


On 3/21/2016 9:36 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yes, it is an alternate form factor.
May as well spill the beans.
Something Gino asked for a couple of years ago but never found the 
solution until recently.
I have a 24 position rack mount, same size as the 4 position DIN I 
sell now.
I am putting a power back plane in it.  It will have 4 separate 
isolated power buses.

Couldn’t find the power bus connectors I wanted until lately.
Actually they were available but only in bulk.   They recently 
packaged them so my pick n place machine could put them on the board.

So you can mix 4 different POE voltages in each rack. A/B powering.
Two common point powering connectors in the back.  Diode combiner.
You only need one if  you only have one source of power.
Mix –48 and +48 and 24 and 12 all in the same rack.
No wires going to each individual GIGE-POE-APC.
The surge suppressor will be the GIGE-POE-PRM
*From:* Jeremy 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 7:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
I am perfectly happy with the GIGE-POE-APC the way it is now.  I 
haven't lost one in three years.  Is this finding a solution to a 
problem that doesn't exist?
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:


It is also a POE inserter.
*From:* George Skorup 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 4:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
Let a surge suppressor be a surge suppressor. I will handle the
over-current externally (fuses, PacketFlux electronic, etc).

On 3/21/2016 3:37 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yeah, I am coming to that conclusion I think.
*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)

*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
*To:* af 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse. Because the trip
is related to heating which is related to current it will trip
much faster in many circumstances. ... however the trip current
varies widely with ambient temperature as well.

I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which
will protect Ethernet magnetics.

On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.
The AP or wiring would be the cause.
The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow. Trying
to  protect the power supply and other loads in parallel.
Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.
If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others
that are off the same power supply.
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

Well, they have their downside.
A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.
But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the
circuit and find a replacement fuse.
I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable
the LED should come back to full brightness.
Just thinking out loud here. Want to make the right choice.
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown
> wrote:

Still leaning toward the polyfuse. Not a lot of room,
fuses 

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Chuck McCown]

Yes, it is an alternate form factor.
May as well spill the beans.  

Something Gino asked for a couple of years ago but never found the solution 
until recently.

I have a 24 position rack mount, same size as the 4 position DIN I sell now.
I am putting a power back plane in it.  It will have 4 separate isolated power 
buses.  

Couldn’t find the power bus connectors I wanted until lately.  
Actually they were available but only in bulk.   They recently packaged them so 
my pick n place machine could put them on the board.  

So you can mix 4 different POE voltages in each rack.  A/B powering.  
Two common point powering connectors in the back.  Diode combiner.
You only need one if  you only have one source of power.

Mix –48 and +48 and 24 and 12 all in the same rack.  
No wires going to each individual GIGE-POE-APC. 

The surge suppressor will be the GIGE-POE-PRM

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 7:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

I am perfectly happy with the GIGE-POE-APC the way it is now.  I haven't lost 
one in three years.  Is this finding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  It is also a POE inserter.

  From: George Skorup 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 4:40 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Let a surge suppressor be a surge suppressor. I will handle the over-current 
externally (fuses, PacketFlux electronic, etc).


  On 3/21/2016 3:37 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yeah, I am coming to that conclusion I think.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse.  Because the trip is related 
to heating which is related to current it will trip much faster in many 
circumstances. ...  however the trip current varies widely with ambient 
temperature as well. 

I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which will protect 
Ethernet magnetics. 

On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or 
wiring would be the cause.

  The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to  
protect the power supply and other loads in parallel.
  Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.  

  If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off 
the same power supply.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Well, they have their downside.
A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.  
More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.  

But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a 
replacement fuse.  
I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should 
come back to full brightness.  

Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse 
holders are more money.  

  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm 
glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the automotive 
blade fuses.

  If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor 
would be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the 
same.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I 
do like the automotive blades 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Josh Reynolds]

Hi.

Inside the US military itself, China is considered an ally nation.
Even this past year we decided to start holding joint land-based
exercises with them - previously they were limited to naval exercises.
It's an opportunity to test co-readiness (ally full spectrum
operations), as well as judge their competence (intelligence).

Without getting into specifics, they are on the long term "watch them
/ potential threat" list simply because of the size their manpower,
but they are not considered a nation of immediate threat to us or our
G8 allies in the general sense. There are certain issues we are not
happy with them on such as their fondness for island nations and
territorial claims. Even the "stolen" Chengdu J-20 is more of a 3rd
gen fighter design than a 5th (about 20-25 years behind).

Despite all this, there are many well financially and politically
backed think tanks that are excellent at wargaming scenarios and
creating massive amounts of FUD - this creates more contributions for
them, entrenches their clout, and creates a certain type of fearful
competition to drive policy decisions in favor of the defense complex.

Interesting notes about a fairly recent situation:

"In a study published in 2005,[120] a group of researchers assessed
the effects reports and retractions in the media had on people's
memory regarding the search for WMD in Iraq during the 2003 Iraq War.
The study focused on populations in two coalition countries (Australia
and USA) and one opposed to the war (Germany). This led to three
conclusions:

The repetition of tentative news stories, even if they are
subsequently disconfirmed, can assist in the creation of false
memories in a substantial proportion of people.

Once information is published, its subsequent correction does not
alter people's beliefs unless they are suspicious about the motives
underlying the events the news stories are about.

When people ignore corrections, they do so irrespective of how certain
they are that the corrections occurred.

A poll conducted between June and September 2003 asked people whether
they thought evidence of WMD had been discovered in Iraq since the war
ended. They were also asked which media sources they relied upon.
Those who obtained their news primarily from Fox News were three times
as likely to believe that evidence of WMD had been discovered in Iraq
than those who relied on PBS and NPR for their news, and one third
more likely than those who primarily watched CBS."
Source : Psycological Science Journal
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/10./(ISSN)1467-9280

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 8:42 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:
> I don’t read what you are interpreting but I will attempt to make it more
> clear.  The Chinese government targets specific industries that are in their
> best interest either militarily or economically.  If they do not have
> sufficient business infrastructure within the country to meet their needs,
> they create it, hence Huawei.  Why do you think we used to call it Japan,
> Inc.  for the longest time.  They invented the idea.  And Faisal, you can
> keep your head in the sand about what’s really happening in China but I
> suggest you start pulling declassified reports, understand the concept of
> String of Pearls as it was accidentally leaked back in the 90’s, and spend
> some time at security briefings.  Your interpretation of what China’s goals
> are on many fronts simply just doesn’t jive with the facts.  I feel you are
> missing a lot of information and drawing an incorrect conclusion.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 6:17 PM
>
>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
>
>
> Rory,
>
>
>
> Your first paragraph reads as I did not say it.. but I did say it ...
> The fact that you look at all this as stuff as being , they want to destroy
> us, simply makes my case of you buying into the FUD and spreading it.
>
>
>
> How about taking a more sensible approach. People of the World want to
> live a good life in peace, it is the politicians of the world who will be
> out of business if that ever happens... and the Corporations who make
> millions of $ of profit on both sides will be  shorted out so it is in
> their best interest to keep the FUD alive, and keep creating chaos.
>
>
>
> There is no one in the World who wants to destroy another person or another
> country who has not been incited to do so !..
>
>
>
> You should read what you wrote,  you justify your thinking with the same
> logic that you lay out as being wrong... but you appear to be able to do
> that because you are justifying to yourself that one entity is worse then
> the other entity, when both are involved in bad behavior.
>
>
>
> In regards to Trump, more power to you . we have a saying .. be careful
> of the devil you seek vs the devil you know
>
>
>
> :)
>
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & 

Re: [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?

[Josh Luthman]

Bunch of people had the NDA the last swing.  We'll see in August!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 9:18 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> GA before August was the bet. Also, NDA prevents a lot :)
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 8:13 PM, Josh Luthman
>  wrote:
> > Pretty sure if sync was working every mailing list would have kerploaded.
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> You'd be out $500 but you never agreed before the show :/
> >>
> >> On Mar 21, 2016 8:07 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Oh that's right.  What should I expect to win?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Josh Luthman
> >>> Office: 937-552-2340
> >>> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >>> 1100 Wayne St
> >>> Suite 1337
> >>> Troy, OH 45373
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 8:53 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  "What if my bet was GA before August and a sidebet on if it would sync
>  with AF5X given the same sync parameters (50/50,75/25,etc)?"
> 
>  On Mar 21, 2016 6:07 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > What was the bet exactly?  Weren't you gambling that the sun would
> rise
> > in the west or a day is coming that doesn't end in "y"?
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Josh Luthman
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Yep I'm here
> >>
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> Office: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >> On Mar 17, 2016 9:30 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I saw him yesterday.
> >>>
> >>> From: Josh Reynolds
> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 7:12 AM
> >>> To: af@afmug.com
> >>> Subject: [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Just curious if your wallet is ready. There's still a few months to
> >>> go though :P
> >
> >
> >>>
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[George Skorup]

Yep, agreed. Chuck, if you're going to put some kind of current 
protection device on the GigE-POE-APC card, then I agree with Josh, just 
make it 5x20mm. We have a brazillion of those in 1, 3 and 5 amp.


On 3/21/2016 8:07 PM, Jeremy wrote:
I am perfectly happy with the GIGE-POE-APC the way it is now.  I 
haven't lost one in three years.  Is this finding a solution to a 
problem that doesn't exist?


On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:


It is also a POE inserter.
*From:* George Skorup 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 4:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
Let a surge suppressor be a surge suppressor. I will handle the
over-current externally (fuses, PacketFlux electronic, etc).

On 3/21/2016 3:37 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yeah, I am coming to that conclusion I think.
*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)

*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
*To:* af 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse.  Because the trip
is related to heating which is related to current it will trip
much faster in many circumstances. ... however the trip current
varies widely with ambient temperature as well.

I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which
will protect Ethernet magnetics.

On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim. 
The AP or wiring would be the cause.
The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow. 
Trying to  protect the power supply and other loads in parallel.

Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.
If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others
that are off the same power supply.
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

Well, they have their downside.
A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.
But, if a fuse is blown, then you have to fix the circuit
and find a replacement fuse.
I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable
the LED should come back to full brightness.
Just thinking out loud here. Want to make the right choice.
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown
> wrote:

Still leaning toward the polyfuse. Not a lot of room,
fuses and fuse holders are more money.
*From:* Bill Prince 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that
uses the 5x20mm glass fuses. However, we also have a
few legacy sites that use the automotive blade fuses.

If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the
same form factor would be nice.  Anyone else using
those same DIN clip fuse holders have the same.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett
>
wrote:

I 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Rory, 

Your first paragraph reads as I did not say it.. but I did say it ... The 
fact that you look at all this as stuff as being , they want to destroy us, 
simply makes my case of you buying into the FUD and spreading it. 

How about taking a more sensible approach. People of the World want to live 
a good life in peace, it is the politicians of the world who will be out of 
business if that ever happens... and the Corporations who make millions of $ of 
profit on both sides will be shorted out so it is in their best interest to 
keep the FUD alive, and keep creating chaos. 

There is no one in the World who wants to destroy another person or another 
country who has not been incited to do so !.. 

You should read what you wrote, you justify your thinking with the same logic 
that you lay out as being wrong... but you appear to be able to do that because 
you are justifying to yourself that one entity is worse then the other entity, 
when both are involved in bad behavior. 

In regards to Trump, more power to you . we have a saying .. be careful of 
the devil you seek vs the devil you know 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 9:00:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> I didn’t say that the Chinese government has 99% of the companies under their
> thumb. However, they do in the areas of key technologies, solar, networking,
> cellular, and any company they discern to be critical to their military or
> economy. If they want to destroy a U.S. industry, they provide plenty of money
> from the government through the banks to the companies they deem critical to
> that effort. They destroyed many of our industries and we let them do it
> because out political class was either too corrupt or too stupid to realize
> what was happening, Solyndra being a good example.

> In the meantime, no company in this country has ever had their CEO killed for
> some government violation whereas you toe the line in China or you get killed
> or jailed. Hell, we don’t even convict them most of the time, no matter what
> laws they break, the banking crisis being a perfect example. Most of those
> CEO’s walked away and kept most of the money they stole (not paranoia, fact 
> and
> easily provable). Even CEO’s involved in money laundering haven’t been touched
> for the most part. That is one of the criminal relationships between Wall
> Street and the Government that really needs to be cleaned up. The Justice
> Department needs to be independent of the President or any political party.
> Sadly, it’s not and the criminals just rotate through the White House. If you
> want the best reason that I’m voting for Trump, this is it. I hope his ego is
> enough to prove he isn’t corrupt.

> Rory

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 4:22 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> 

> But if you think that 99% of the companies in this country have access to that
> data and are coordinated the same way that the Chinese government does it, 
> then
> you are mistaken. The Chinese target industries and then get everyone on 
> board,
> multiple companies and agencies, with connections, financing, and
> patent/technical information. We simply don’t do that as a country. Yes, our
> government is now as corrupt as it’s ever been, yes it’s got a relationship
> with private industry and other governments that would have put people in jail
> for treason 50 years ago, but it’s that very fact that keeps that information
> within a few companies through secret government relationships, meaning it’s
> the exception, not the rule. And it also means in some cases, it’s illegal and
> hopefully that is enough to stop it when it’s not in our national interest but
> simply in the interest of a specific company or person. Again, the difference
> between them and us.

> --

> I find the people of the world to be more alike than dis-alike. I find the Gov
> of the world to be more Alike than Dis-alike. If you think that the Chinese 
> Gov
> has 99% of the companies under their thumbs in a coordinated way (I am taking
> an implied position from your statement ) then you need to re-arrange your
> thinking.. and this is what I am calling FUD from you.

> We are being played, just at different levels...that fact that you are trying 
> to
> justify and downplay the corruption our system vs theirs, simply tells me that
> you are drinking the same koolaid that you are complaining about.

> Paint the canvas any way you want but the rules and procedures are different. 
> I
> suggest you get involved with civilian security programs and you will find 
> that
> even that much 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Jeremy]

The lube and the uranium were funny, but it was the Q and comments that
made it PURE GOLD.  LMAO.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Trump's not corrupt? He's padded the pockets of both parties so he could
> have political backing on certain business ventures. He's replaced a lot of
> his larger staffing ventures with H1-B workers. He's been involved in
> almost 170 Federal lawsuits - most of which he's claimed extreme damages
> for media attention and personal profit and more than a few (most) have
> been thrown out even under a short examination. He's just as much a part of
> the political system as any person up there.
>
> I feel we need changes too, but this is Trump for Trump, and nothing more.
> O want to fix things not burn them down.
> On Mar 21, 2016 8:00 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
>> I didn’t say that the Chinese government has 99% of the companies under
>> their thumb.  However, they do in the areas of key technologies, solar,
>> networking, cellular, and any company they discern to be critical to their
>> military or economy.   If they want to destroy a U.S. industry, they
>> provide plenty of money from the government through the banks to the
>> companies they deem critical to that effort.  They destroyed many of our
>> industries and we let them do it because out political class was either too
>> corrupt or too stupid to realize what was happening, Solyndra being a good
>> example.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the meantime, no company in this country has ever had their CEO killed
>> for some government violation whereas you toe the line in China or you get
>> killed or jailed.  Hell, we don’t even convict them most of the time, no
>> matter what laws they break, the banking crisis being a perfect example.
>> Most of those CEO’s walked away and kept most of the money they stole (not
>> paranoia, fact and easily provable).  Even CEO’s involved in money
>> laundering haven’t been touched for the most part.  That is one of the
>> criminal relationships between Wall Street and the Government that really
>> needs to be cleaned up.  The Justice Department needs to be independent of
>> the President or any political party.   Sadly, it’s not and the criminals
>> just rotate through the White House.  If you want the best reason that I’m
>> voting for Trump, this is it.  I hope his ego is enough to prove he isn’t
>> corrupt.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Faisal Imtiaz
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 4:22 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> But if you think that 99% of the companies in this country  have access
>> to that data and are coordinated the same way that the Chinese government
>> does it, then you are mistaken.  The Chinese target industries and then get
>> everyone on board, multiple companies and agencies, with connections,
>> financing, and patent/technical information.  We simply don’t do that as a
>> country.  Yes, our government is now as corrupt as it’s ever been, yes it’s
>> got a relationship with private industry and other governments that would
>> have put people in jail for treason 50 years ago, but it’s that very fact
>> that keeps that information within a few companies through secret
>> government relationships, meaning it’s the exception, not the rule.  And it
>> also means in some cases, it’s illegal and hopefully that is enough to stop
>> it when it’s not in our national interest but simply in the interest of a
>> specific company or person.Again, the difference between them and us.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> I find the people of the world to be more alike than dis-alike. I find
>> the Gov of the world to be more Alike than Dis-alike. If you think that the
>> Chinese Gov has 99% of the companies under their thumbs in a coordinated
>> way (I am taking an  implied position from your statement ) then you need
>> to re-arrange your thinking.. and this is what I am calling FUD from you.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are being played, just at different levels...that fact that you are
>> trying to justify and downplay the corruption our system vs theirs, simply
>> tells me that you are drinking the same koolaid that you are complaining
>> about.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Paint the canvas any way you want but the rules and procedures are
>> different.  I suggest you get involved with civilian security programs and
>> you will find that even that much information is more than you ever wanted
>> to know and scary as hell.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, canvas is different, and the paint colors are different, but the
>> process of FUD is the same The world is a scary place if you want to be
>> scared, and it is not scary at all if you don't have anything to be scared
>> about !
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> Let me tell you something.. you should go 

Re: [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?

[Josh Luthman]

Pretty sure if sync was working every mailing list would have kerploaded.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> You'd be out $500 but you never agreed before the show :/
> On Mar 21, 2016 8:07 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> Oh that's right.  What should I expect to win?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 8:53 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "What if my bet was GA before August and a sidebet on if it would sync
>>> with AF5X given the same sync parameters (50/50,75/25,etc)?"
>>> On Mar 21, 2016 6:07 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 What was the bet exactly?  Weren't you gambling that the sun would rise
 in the west or a day is coming that doesn't end in "y"?


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

> Yep I'm here
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Mar 17, 2016 9:30 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> I saw him yesterday.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2016 7:12 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?
>>
>>
>> Just curious if your wallet is ready. There's still a few months to
>> go though :P
>>
>

>>

Re: [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?

[Josh Reynolds]

You'd be out $500 but you never agreed before the show :/
On Mar 21, 2016 8:07 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> Oh that's right.  What should I expect to win?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 8:53 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> "What if my bet was GA before August and a sidebet on if it would sync
>> with AF5X given the same sync parameters (50/50,75/25,etc)?"
>> On Mar 21, 2016 6:07 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What was the bet exactly?  Weren't you gambling that the sun would rise
>>> in the west or a day is coming that doesn't end in "y"?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 Yep I'm here

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Mar 17, 2016 9:30 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I saw him yesterday.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2016 7:12 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?
>
>
> Just curious if your wallet is ready. There's still a few months to go
> though :P
>

>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Jeremy]

I am perfectly happy with the GIGE-POE-APC the way it is now.  I haven't
lost one in three years.  Is this finding a solution to a problem that
doesn't exist?

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> It is also a POE inserter.
>
> *From:* George Skorup 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 4:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
> Let a surge suppressor be a surge suppressor. I will handle the
> over-current externally (fuses, PacketFlux electronic, etc).
>
> On 3/21/2016 3:37 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Yeah, I am coming to that conclusion I think.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
>
> You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse.  Because the trip is
> related to heating which is related to current it will trip much faster in
> many circumstances. ...  however the trip current varies widely with
> ambient temperature as well.
>
> I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which will protect
> Ethernet magnetics.
> On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or
>> wiring would be the cause.
>>
>> The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to
>> protect the power supply and other loads in parallel.
>> Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.
>>
>> If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off
>> the same power supply.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>
>>
>> Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown" < 
>> ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, they have their downside.
>>> A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
>>> A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
>>> More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.
>>>
>>> But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a
>>> replacement fuse.
>>> I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should
>>> come back to full brightness.
>>>
>>> Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>>
>>> Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown < 
>>> ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>
 Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse
 holders are more money.

 *From:* Bill Prince 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

 Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm
 glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the
 automotive blade fuses.

 If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

 bp
 


 On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor
 would be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the
 same.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett < 
 dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do
> like the automotive blades because every gas station has them.
>
>
>
> On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE
> surge suppressors.
>
> I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t
> recall ever designing one in to anything.
> Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to
> satisfy a regulatory agency only.
>
> Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current”
> the “always trip” current is 2 amps.
> Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any
> current over the rating if you wait long enough.
>
> For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design
> value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?

[Josh Luthman]

Oh that's right.  What should I expect to win?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 8:53 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> "What if my bet was GA before August and a sidebet on if it would sync
> with AF5X given the same sync parameters (50/50,75/25,etc)?"
> On Mar 21, 2016 6:07 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> What was the bet exactly?  Weren't you gambling that the sun would rise
>> in the west or a day is coming that doesn't end in "y"?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep I'm here
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> On Mar 17, 2016 9:30 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 I saw him yesterday.

 *From:* Josh Reynolds 
 *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2016 7:12 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?


 Just curious if your wallet is ready. There's still a few months to go
 though :P

>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Chuck McCown]

It is also a POE inserter.

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 4:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Let a surge suppressor be a surge suppressor. I will handle the over-current 
externally (fuses, PacketFlux electronic, etc).


On 3/21/2016 3:37 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Yeah, I am coming to that conclusion I think.  

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse.  Because the trip is related 
to heating which is related to current it will trip much faster in many 
circumstances. ...  however the trip current varies widely with ambient 
temperature as well. 

  I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which will protect 
Ethernet magnetics. 

  On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or 
wiring would be the cause.

The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to  protect 
the power supply and other loads in parallel.
Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.  

If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off the 
same power supply.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Well, they have their downside.
  A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
  A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.  
  More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.  

  But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a 
replacement fuse.  
  I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should 
come back to full brightness.  

  Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse 
holders are more money.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm 
glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the automotive 
blade fuses.

If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor 
would be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the 
same.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do 
like the automotive blades because every gas station has them.



On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount 
POE surge suppressors.

  I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I 
don’t  recall ever designing one in to anything.
  Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been 
to satisfy a regulatory agency only.  

  Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold 
current” the “always trip” current is 2 amps. 
  Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any 
current over the rating if you wait long enough.  

  For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a 
design value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
  But then it takes double that to actually trip..  

  And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the 
tripped condition.  
  It does not totally break the circuit.

  They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse 
holders.  
  Could do auto blade fuses too.  

  Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.  

  Anyone have strong opinions about this?

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Rory Conaway]

I didn’t say that the Chinese government has 99% of the companies under their 
thumb.  However, they do in the areas of key technologies, solar, networking, 
cellular, and any company they discern to be critical to their military or 
economy.   If they want to destroy a U.S. industry, they provide plenty of 
money from the government through the banks to the companies they deem critical 
to that effort.  They destroyed many of our industries and we let them do it 
because out political class was either too corrupt or too stupid to realize 
what was happening, Solyndra being a good example.

In the meantime, no company in this country has ever had their CEO killed for 
some government violation whereas you toe the line in China or you get killed 
or jailed.  Hell, we don’t even convict them most of the time, no matter what 
laws they break, the banking crisis being a perfect example.  Most of those 
CEO’s walked away and kept most of the money they stole (not paranoia, fact and 
easily provable).  Even CEO’s involved in money laundering haven’t been touched 
for the most part.  That is one of the criminal relationships between Wall 
Street and the Government that really needs to be cleaned up.  The Justice 
Department needs to be independent of the President or any political party.   
Sadly, it’s not and the criminals just rotate through the White House.  If you 
want the best reason that I’m voting for Trump, this is it.  I hope his ego is 
enough to prove he isn’t corrupt.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 4:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview




But if you think that 99% of the companies in this country  have access to that 
data and are coordinated the same way that the Chinese government does it, then 
you are mistaken.  The Chinese target industries and then get everyone on 
board, multiple companies and agencies, with connections, financing, and 
patent/technical information.  We simply don’t do that as a country.  Yes, our 
government is now as corrupt as it’s ever been, yes it’s got a relationship 
with private industry and other governments that would have put people in jail 
for treason 50 years ago, but it’s that very fact that keeps that information 
within a few companies through secret government relationships, meaning it’s 
the exception, not the rule.  And it also means in some cases, it’s illegal and 
hopefully that is enough to stop it when it’s not in our national interest but 
simply in the interest of a specific company or person.Again, the 
difference between them and us.

--



I find the people of the world to be more alike than dis-alike. I find the Gov 
of the world to be more Alike than Dis-alike. If you think that the Chinese Gov 
has 99% of the companies under their thumbs in a coordinated way (I am taking 
an  implied position from your statement ) then you need to re-arrange your 
thinking.. and this is what I am calling FUD from you.



We are being played, just at different levels...that fact that you are trying 
to justify and downplay the corruption our system vs theirs, simply tells me 
that you are drinking the same koolaid that you are complaining about.







Paint the canvas any way you want but the rules and procedures are different.  
I suggest you get involved with civilian security programs and you will find 
that even that much information is more than you ever wanted to know and scary 
as hell.

Yes, canvas is different, and the paint colors are different, but the process 
of FUD is the same The world is a scary place if you want to be scared, and 
it is not scary at all if you don't have anything to be scared about !


-
Let me tell you something.. you should go and talk to migrants, of different 
types, from different places and you will see a very common pattern a Human 
Pattern emerge.. As I said earlier, I come from a family of Migrants, Three 
Generations of Migrants, the migration was done in/ from different parts of the 
world, and for different reasons... so granted my view on life is different

I can tell you one thing, the FUD you are buying into, and sharing is not 
unique to this time, nor our nation, nor any other nation... because we have 
seen this time and time again .
And that is the only reason why, I have a bit of an allergic reaction when 
someone lays it out in any forum...everytime I hear it or see it, I tell myself 
to walk away, but after a while it seeing it again and again it drags me back 
into such conversations as the one we are having now...

What is interesting and ironic about  the conversation we are having here, on 
this topic, is that I have the same conversations with the folks on the other 
side of the world, the only common element is FUD.

That is why I think one has to choose how they live...

   Either ... 

Re: [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?

[Josh Reynolds]

"What if my bet was GA before August and a sidebet on if it would sync with
AF5X given the same sync parameters (50/50,75/25,etc)?"
On Mar 21, 2016 6:07 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> What was the bet exactly?  Weren't you gambling that the sun would rise in
> the west or a day is coming that doesn't end in "y"?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> Yep I'm here
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Mar 17, 2016 9:30 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> I saw him yesterday.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2016 7:12 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?
>>>
>>>
>>> Just curious if your wallet is ready. There's still a few months to go
>>> though :P
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Faisal Imtiaz]

 

But if you think that 99% of the companies in this country have access to that 
data and are coordinated the same way that the Chinese government does it, then 
you are mistaken. The Chinese target industries and then get everyone on board, 
multiple companies and agencies, with connections, financing, and 
patent/technical information. We simply don’t do that as a country. Yes, our 
government is now as corrupt as it’s ever been, yes it’s got a relationship 
with private industry and other governments that would have put people in jail 
for treason 50 years ago, but it’s that very fact that keeps that information 
within a few companies through secret government relationships, meaning it’s 
the exception, not the rule. And it also means in some cases, it’s illegal and 
hopefully that is enough to stop it when it’s not in our national interest but 
simply in the interest of a specific company or person. Again, the difference 
between them and us. 

-- 

I find the people of the world to be more alike than dis-alike. I find the Gov 
of the world to be more Alike than Dis-alike. If you think that the Chinese Gov 
has 99% of the companies under their thumbs in a coordinated way (I am taking 
an implied position from your statement ) then you need to re-arrange your 
thinking.. and this is what I am calling FUD from you. 

We are being played, just at different levels...that fact that you are trying 
to justify and downplay the corruption our system vs theirs, simply tells me 
that you are drinking the same koolaid that you are complaining about. 

Paint the canvas any way you want but the rules and procedures are different. I 
suggest you get involved with civilian security programs and you will find that 
even that much information is more than you ever wanted to know and scary as 
hell. 

Yes, canvas is different, and the paint colors are different, but the process 
of FUD is the same The world is a scary place if you want to be scared, and 
it is not scary at all if you don't have anything to be scared about ! 

- 
Let me tell you something.. you should go and talk to migrants, of different 
types, from different places and you will see a very common pattern a Human 
Pattern emerge.. As I said earlier, I come from a family of Migrants, Three 
Generations of Migrants, the migration was done in/ from different parts of the 
world, and for different reasons... so granted my view on life is different 

I can tell you one thing, the FUD you are buying into, and sharing is not 
unique to this time, nor our nation, nor any other nation... because we have 
seen this time and time again . 
And that is the only reason why, I have a bit of an allergic reaction when 
someone lays it out in any forum...everytime I hear it or see it, I tell myself 
to walk away, but after a while it seeing it again and again it drags me back 
into such conversations as the one we are having now... 

What is interesting and ironic about the conversation we are having here, on 
this topic, is that I have the same conversations with the folks on the other 
side of the world, the only common element is FUD. 

That is why I think one has to choose how they live... 

Either ... Stay Fearful or Stay un-afraid my friend... 
No one knows what life's next turn will bring, it not about having to look over 
your shoulder, it is all about the attitude that you carry, and it really helps 
to learn from the past and broaden one's outlook ! 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 6:56:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> No, not at all. There is official government policy and there is stuff that 
> goes
> on illegally or we are never told. For example, do you really think that there
> is a full firewall between the FBI, the NSA, and local law enforcement so they
> don’t get your personal information. Then we find out that even local law
> enforcement is collecting cell phone information. And there is a lot of really
> impressive drug busts that never get to court because local law-enforcement 
> can
> only say “they got a tip from an anonymous source”.

> But if you think that 99% of the companies in this country have access to that
> data and are coordinated the same way that the Chinese government does it, 
> then
> you are mistaken. The Chinese target industries and then get everyone on 
> board,
> multiple companies and agencies, with connections, financing, and
> patent/technical information. We simply don’t do that as a country. Yes, our
> government is now as corrupt as it’s ever been, yes it’s got a relationship
> with private industry and other governments that would have put 

Re: [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?

[Josh Luthman]

What was the bet exactly?  Weren't you gambling that the sun would rise in
the west or a day is coming that doesn't end in "y"?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Yep I'm here
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Mar 17, 2016 9:30 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> I saw him yesterday.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2016 7:12 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Luthman are you in Louisville?
>>
>>
>> Just curious if your wallet is ready. There's still a few months to go
>> though :P
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Rory Conaway]

No, not at all.  There is official government policy and there is stuff that 
goes on illegally or we are never told.  For example, do you really think that 
there is a full firewall between the FBI, the NSA, and local law enforcement so 
they don’t get your personal information.  Then we find out that even local law 
enforcement is collecting cell phone information.  And there is a lot of really 
impressive drug busts that never get to court because local law-enforcement can 
only say “they got a tip from an anonymous source”.

But if you think that 99% of the companies in this country  have access to that 
data and are coordinated the same way that the Chinese government does it, then 
you are mistaken.  The Chinese target industries and then get everyone on 
board, multiple companies and agencies, with connections, financing, and 
patent/technical information.  We simply don’t do that as a country.  Yes, our 
government is now as corrupt as it’s ever been, yes it’s got a relationship 
with private industry and other governments that would have put people in jail 
for treason 50 years ago, but it’s that very fact that keeps that information 
within a few companies through secret government relationships, meaning it’s 
the exception, not the rule.  And it also means in some cases, it’s illegal and 
hopefully that is enough to stop it when it’s not in our national interest but 
simply in the interest of a specific company or person.Again, the 
difference between them and us.

Paint the canvas any way you want but the rules and procedures are different.  
I suggest you get involved with civilian security programs and you will find 
that even that much information is more than you ever wanted to know and scary 
as hell.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:16 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

Rory,

Are you that Naive to think and believe that our Country, the standards bearer 
of the Capitalistic system in the World, behaves in the best interest of the 
Gov and Or the People ? and not in the Best Interest of the Corporate Economic 
Engine that drives everything ?

Dude, I am floored !

(p.s THe folks on the other side of the world are very fast learners... they 
see and they copy... not just tech but behavior too !)

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:35:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
Faisal, your analogy is not logical.  Huawei stole the technology to create 
their company.  I will not do business with thieves.  Who you do business with 
is up to you but it is also a reflection on your character and morality.

As for your paranoia part, you really don’t know all the facts about their 
strategy, the technological abilities when it comes to back doors and what we 
can and cannot detect.  Until you really know what’s happening and what the 
Chinese governmental strategy is concerning world domination, control of the 
infrastructure of its potential enemies, and how Huawei plays into that 
strategy, your conclusion is based on your personal beliefs, not facts.   Make 
no mistake, Huawei was created by the Chinese military and is part of a larger 
strategy.  To deny that is simply ignorance.

One other thing that needs to be made clear is that the United States spying 
was never historically done to enable an economic advantage, it was done for 
security reasons.  China and Japan sanctioned state sponsored thefts of patents 
and gave it to key industries.  I don’t believe Japan is doing that any more 
but in the 70’s and 80’s, they were as bad as China, just ask Catepillar.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 5:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

Wow, what can I say, go get your tin foil hat...

The next thing you will be taking a crap about is that.Mimosa now has a 
team of engineers working out of Turkey...who knows what those damm Moselems 
are putting in thier code, as part of Sharia domination of America.


Stay fearful my friend.

:)

Regards

Faisal

Sent from Mobile Device

 Original message 
From: Rory Conaway
Date:03/21/2016 12:44 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

I don’t think the question is whether or not they are a Chinese company, I 
think the question is whether or not Huawei is involved on some level, either 
hardware or software.  Besides the fact that they entire company is based on 
stolen property from day 1, the second part of the 

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Josh Luthman]

Wow I'm glad you said that...I didn't realize this would double fuse my
setups until then.  Definitely a waste...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 6:40 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> Let a surge suppressor be a surge suppressor. I will handle the
> over-current externally (fuses, PacketFlux electronic, etc).
>
> On 3/21/2016 3:37 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Yeah, I am coming to that conclusion I think.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
>
> You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse.  Because the trip is
> related to heating which is related to current it will trip much faster in
> many circumstances. ...  however the trip current varies widely with
> ambient temperature as well.
>
> I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which will protect
> Ethernet magnetics.
> On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or
>> wiring would be the cause.
>>
>> The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to
>> protect the power supply and other loads in parallel.
>> Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.
>>
>> If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off
>> the same power supply.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>
>>
>> Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown" < 
>> ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, they have their downside.
>>> A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
>>> A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
>>> More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.
>>>
>>> But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a
>>> replacement fuse.
>>> I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should
>>> come back to full brightness.
>>>
>>> Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>>
>>> Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown < 
>>> ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>
 Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse
 holders are more money.

 *From:* Bill Prince 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

 Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm
 glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the
 automotive blade fuses.

 If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

 bp
 


 On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor
 would be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the
 same.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett < 
 dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do
> like the automotive blades because every gas station has them.
>
>
> On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE
> surge suppressors.
>
> I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t
> recall ever designing one in to anything.
> Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to
> satisfy a regulatory agency only.
>
> Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current”
> the “always trip” current is 2 amps.
> Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any
> current over the rating if you wait long enough.
>
> For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design
> value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
> But then it takes double that to actually trip..
>
> And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[George Skorup]

Let a surge suppressor be a surge suppressor. I will handle the 
over-current externally (fuses, PacketFlux electronic, etc).


On 3/21/2016 3:37 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yeah, I am coming to that conclusion I think.
*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
*To:* af 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse. Because the trip is 
related to heating which is related to current it will trip much 
faster in many circumstances. ...  however the trip current varies 
widely with ambient temperature as well.


I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which will 
protect Ethernet magnetics.


On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:


The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The
AP or wiring would be the cause.
The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to 
protect the power supply and other loads in parallel.

Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.
If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that
are off the same power supply.
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

Well, they have their downside.
A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.
But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and
find a replacement fuse.
I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the
LED should come back to full brightness.
Just thinking out loud here. Want to make the right choice.
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

Still leaning toward the polyfuse. Not a lot of room,
fuses and fuse holders are more money.
*From:* Bill Prince 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses
the 5x20mm glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy
sites that use the automotive blade fuses.

If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same
form factor would be nice. Anyone else using those same
DIN clip fuse holders have the same.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett
> wrote:

I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a
replaceable fuse I do like the automotive blades
because every gas station has them.


On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of
my rack mount POE surge suppressors.
I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state
fuses.  I don’t  recall ever designing one in to
anything.
Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that
would have been to satisfy a regulatory agency only.
Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp
“hold current” the “always trip” current is 2 amps.
Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to
trip at any current over the rating if you wait long
enough.
For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to
have a design value of greater than 1 amp 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Maybe because the real ones are also made in China ? 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 4:46:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> Yes, back in 2007 when they were new I'd heard from a few US government 
> sources
> that there were chinese WIC and HWIC cards... Even rumors that the whole CIsco
> 2801/2811/2821 (which were pretty expensive new routers at that time) had been
> entirely copied by their Chinese contract manufacturer.

> I have never personally seen or heard of a higher-end counterfeit Cisco 
> linecard
> or module... Like, never heard of a counterfeit NPE-G2 or a WS-X6704 10GbE
> card.

> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote:

>> Agreed. I was just giving examples of “modules”.
>> Lots of Chisco WIC cards out there though.
>> From: Eric Kuhnke
>> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

>> I really doubt anyone is counterfeiting PA modules for the 7206VXR 
>> considering
>> how old the platform is.
>> On Mar 20, 2016 5:16 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote:

>>> WIC, NM, PA, etc. Plug in card for a modular router.
>>> From: Josh Reynolds
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 7:08 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

>>> Define module?
>>> On Mar 20, 2016 6:56 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote:

 I’m not sure I equate “previously owned” with “grey market”. And if Cisco 
 had a
 problem with it, they didn’t have to sell you a Smartnet contract for the 
 used
 gear. Pretty good actually selling a full year HW/SW maintenance contract 
 just
 so you can upgrade the SW.
 What I won’t do is buy the “new” Cisco modules from Hong Kong that are 
 probably
 counterfeit. Even if they are made from the same parts in the same factory.
 From: Bruce Robertson
 Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 5:23 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
 I *never* *ever* did that...

 On 03/20/2016 02:17 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

> Funny, how many of us bought the cheapest Cisco thing we could find and
> registered it so we could get fresh software for the grey market more 
> expensive
> routers we deployed hmmm
> From: Eric Kuhnke
> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 2:50 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
> I really don't see the point of trying to prevent shipments of
> telecom/IT/networking equipment to Iran, or punishing anybody for selling
> telecom/IT/networking gear to Iran:

> 1) If people in Iran really want the stuff they will simply arrange a way 
> to buy
> it from Dubai.

> 2) Isn't it a good thing to ship any sort of computer/networking/ISP gear 
> into
> Iran? There's a very active community of Iranians who have come up with 
> local
> Farsi language documents/training guides and information on how to run 
> Tor, how
> to get around government internet censorship, move VPN traffic through 
> their
> ISPs' blackholes. Iranians want to read unfettered media. The US 
> government has
> a whole Farsi language division funded from the Voice of America/BBG
> (Broadcasting Board of Governors) that is trying to reach Iranians. There 
> are a
> shitload of Iranians that want to use Facebook, Whatsapp, Skype, etc. More
> communication with the outside world is good.

> http://www.radiofarda.com/

> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
> wrote:

>> You are familiar with Cisco developing products to aid in China's 
>> internet
>> snooping and repression, right?
>> On Mar 20, 2016 12:16 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote:

>>> Recent article raises suspicions Huawei violated Iran sanctions.
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/technology/zte-document-raises-questions-about-huawei-and-sanctions.html?_r=0
>>> Although expecting Chinese companies to obey our sanctions against Iran 
>>> and not
>>> use tricks to get around them is probably unrealistic. But it’s a little
>>> humorous reading how ZTE copied the tricks of an unnamed company that is
>>> clearly Huawei.
>>> From: Mike Hammett
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:44 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>> Some of it is bull, but the blatant duplication of Cisco is 
>>> indisputable.

>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>>> The Brothers WISP

>>> From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com >

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

That matches my recollection.

The temperature derating is even worse.   If you rate for say 1A hold
current at 150F,  you may end up with 2A or more hold current around 0F,
with that 12 seconds being effectively at 4A when cold.

About the only place I'll use a PTC fuse anymore is where there is not
likely to be a fault but you want to survive a short anyways.  For
instance,  I'm thinking about adding one in the ground connection on the
SiteMonitor bus to help avoid permanent damage when a customer accidentally
mixes a positive ground device into a system.
On Mar 21, 2016 4:37 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> 12 seconds at double the hold current at room temp if I am reading the
> specs right.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
> 12 seconds with a dead short, or 12 seconds when slightly over current?
> That might be two different answers.
>
>
>
> On 3/21/2016 4:17 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Yeah, it does sound a bit pointless.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:16 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
> 12 seconds for a fuse to pop???  How is that event a fuse.  That sounds
> pointless.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or
>> wiring would be the cause.
>>
>> The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to
>> protect the power supply and other loads in parallel.
>> Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.
>>
>> If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off
>> the same power supply.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>
>>
>> Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> Well, they have their downside.
>>> A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
>>> A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
>>> More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.
>>>
>>> But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a
>>> replacement fuse.
>>> I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should
>>> come back to full brightness.
>>>
>>> Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>>
>>> Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse
 holders are more money.

 *From:* Bill Prince 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

 Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm
 glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the
 automotive blade fuses.

 If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

 bp
 


 On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor
 would be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the
 same.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett 
 wrote:

> I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do
> like the automotive blades because every gas station has them.
>
>
> On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE
> surge suppressors.
>
> I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t
> recall ever designing one in to anything.
> Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to
> satisfy a regulatory agency only.
>
> Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current”
> the “always trip” current is 2 amps.
> Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any
> current 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Eric Kuhnke]

Yes, back in 2007 when they were new I'd heard from a few US government
sources that there were chinese WIC and HWIC cards...  Even rumors that the
whole CIsco 2801/2811/2821 (which were pretty expensive new routers at that
time) had been entirely copied by their Chinese contract manufacturer.

I have never personally seen or heard of a higher-end counterfeit Cisco
linecard or module...  Like, never heard of a counterfeit NPE-G2 or a
WS-X6704 10GbE card.



On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Agreed.  I was just giving examples of “modules”.
>
> Lots of Chisco WIC cards out there though.
>
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
>
> I really doubt anyone is counterfeiting PA modules for the 7206VXR
> considering how old the platform is.
> On Mar 20, 2016 5:16 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> WIC, NM, PA, etc.  Plug in card for a modular router.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2016 7:08 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>
>>
>> Define module?
>> On Mar 20, 2016 6:56 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>
>>> I’m not sure I equate “previously owned” with “grey market”.  And if
>>> Cisco had a problem with it, they didn’t have to sell you a Smartnet
>>> contract for the used gear.  Pretty good actually selling a full year HW/SW
>>> maintenance contract just so you can upgrade the SW.
>>>
>>> What I won’t do is buy the “new” Cisco modules from Hong Kong that are
>>> probably counterfeit.  Even if they are made from the same parts in the
>>> same factory.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2016 5:23 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>>
>>> I *never* *ever* did that...
>>>
>>> On 03/20/2016 02:17 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
>>> Funny, how many of us bought the cheapest Cisco thing we could find and
>>> registered it so we could get fresh software for the grey market more
>>> expensive routers we deployed hmmm
>>>
>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2016 2:50 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>>
>>> I really don't see the point of trying to prevent shipments of
>>> telecom/IT/networking equipment to Iran, or punishing anybody for selling
>>> telecom/IT/networking gear to Iran:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) If people in Iran really want the stuff they will simply arrange a
>>> way to buy it from Dubai.
>>>
>>> 2) Isn't it a good thing to ship any sort of computer/networking/ISP
>>> gear into Iran?  There's a very active community of Iranians who have come
>>> up with local Farsi language documents/training guides and information on
>>> how to run Tor, how to get around government internet censorship, move VPN
>>> traffic through their ISPs' blackholes. Iranians want to read unfettered
>>> media. The US government has a whole Farsi language division funded from
>>> the Voice of America/BBG (Broadcasting Board of Governors) that is trying
>>> to reach Iranians.  There are a shitload of Iranians that want to use
>>> Facebook, Whatsapp, Skype, etc.  More communication with the outside world
>>> is good.
>>>
>>> http://www.radiofarda.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Josh Reynolds < 
>>> j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>>>
 You are familiar with Cisco developing products to aid in China's
 internet snooping and repression, right?
 On Mar 20, 2016 12:16 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Recent article raises suspicions Huawei violated Iran sanctions.
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/technology/zte-document-raises-questions-about-huawei-and-sanctions.html?_r=0
>
> Although expecting Chinese companies to obey our sanctions against
> Iran and not use tricks to get around them is probably unrealistic.  But
> it’s a little humorous reading how ZTE copied the tricks of an unnamed
> company that is clearly Huawei.
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:44 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
> Some of it is bull, but the blatant duplication of Cisco is
> indisputable.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah, I am coming to that conclusion I think.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse.  Because the trip is related to 
heating which is related to current it will trip much faster in many 
circumstances. ...  however the trip current varies widely with ambient 
temperature as well. 

I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which will protect 
Ethernet magnetics. 

On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or 
wiring would be the cause.

  The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to  protect 
the power supply and other loads in parallel.
  Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.  

  If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off the 
same power supply.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Well, they have their downside.
A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.  
More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.  

But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a 
replacement fuse.  
I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should 
come back to full brightness.  

Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse 
holders are more money.  

  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm 
glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the automotive 
blade fuses.

  If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor 
would be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the 
same.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do 
like the automotive blades because every gas station has them.



  On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount 
POE surge suppressors.

I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t  
recall ever designing one in to anything.
Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been 
to satisfy a regulatory agency only.  

Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” 
the “always trip” current is 2 amps. 
Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any 
current over the rating if you wait long enough.  

For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design 
value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
But then it takes double that to actually trip..  

And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the 
tripped condition.  
It does not totally break the circuit.

They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse 
holders.  
Could do auto blade fuses too.  

Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.  

Anyone have strong opinions about this?

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Chuck McCown]

12 seconds at double the hold current at room temp if I am reading the specs 
right.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

12 seconds with a dead short, or 12 seconds when slightly over current?  
That might be two different answers.




On 3/21/2016 4:17 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Yeah, it does sound a bit pointless.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:16 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  12 seconds for a fuse to pop???  How is that event a fuse.  That sounds 
pointless.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or 
wiring would be the cause.

The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to  protect 
the power supply and other loads in parallel.
Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.  

If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off the 
same power supply.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Well, they have their downside.
  A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
  A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.  
  More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.  

  But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a 
replacement fuse.  
  I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should 
come back to full brightness.  

  Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse 
holders are more money.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm 
glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the automotive 
blade fuses.

If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor 
would be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the 
same.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do 
like the automotive blades because every gas station has them.



On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount 
POE surge suppressors.

  I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I 
don’t  recall ever designing one in to anything.
  Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been 
to satisfy a regulatory agency only.  

  Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold 
current” the “always trip” current is 2 amps. 
  Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any 
current over the rating if you wait long enough.  

  For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a 
design value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
  But then it takes double that to actually trip..  

  And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the 
tripped condition.  
  It does not totally break the circuit.

  They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse 
holders.  
  Could do auto blade fuses too.  

  Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.  

  Anyone have strong opinions about this?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Corny Video

[Jay Weekley]

Dixie State is definitely not where I thought it would be.

Chuck McCown wrote:
Got  a small tour of Dixie State University yesterday. One of my sons 
is a student in the computer forensics program.  Part of the Southwest 
Regional Computer Crime Institute.  Had a fun conversation with him 
about cracking encryption.  You really want a long random password if 
you do not want to be cracked.
Their lab has robots that will brute force an iPhone with key presses 
and interrupting the current between each try etc etc.  They do a lot 
of work for law enforcement there and students can get free 
certification as a law enforcement professional as part of the course.

They have a real corny video about  the program:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=agZVrtzSgXU

Re: [AFMUG] Canopy moving from 1 color code per tower to 1 color code per AP

[Sean Heskett]

cool, thanks for all the advise guys.  I think i'm getting a better grip on
how to tackle the project.

one tower has 12 x PMP450s covering about 200* so lots of overlap.  The
other tower has 6 x PMP450s covering 160*

on the 12 AP tower i think i'm going to leave the 2 outer APs on the
current color code and one other in the center of the cluster (the SMs
connected to the edge APs can't really see the other APs better than a -75
to -80 anyway).  if I leave those three then I only have to monkey with 9
APs instead of all 12 lol.

I wish the canopy SM was better at selecting the "best" AP but we often end
up with one AP with 70-80 clients and the AP next door has 10 clients.
 once we drop all sessions they seem to migrate back to a more balance load
per AP but after a couple days everything is out of balance again and we
have to drop all session etc.  with color code priority we will have more
control over the balancing act. :-)

-Sean


On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Darren Shea  wrote:

> It’s been a while, but I remember my steps (going from one omni to
> multiple sectors) being like this:
>
>
>
> 1. Put up new sectors, but don’t turn on transmit
>
> 2. Set all new APs to the same color code as the omni. Grab a
> snapshot of all connected SMs from the omni
>
> 3. Reboot all SM’s (Perl script using SNMP and proxy IP), while at
> the same time turning on the transmit on the new sectors, and off on the
> omni
>
> 4. Make sure (after a reasonable time) that each SM has registered
> (with a good signal level, of course), if so…
>
> 5. Under the assumption that each SM has chosen the best AP
> available, program the appropriate new color code into each of the SMs
> connected to each sector (another perl script using SNMP and the proxy IP).
>
> 6. After double-checking everything, set the new sector color codes
> and reboot all simultaneously
>
> 7. Verify all SMs are registered, and you’re done!
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Canopy moving from 1 color code per tower to 1
> color code per AP
>
>
>
> I think you could add secondary and tertiary color codes to the AP’s, then
> just go through the SM’s and change their CC to whatever works best for
> them.
>
>
>
> I seem to recall doing that often years ago, but not sure if there is an
> easier way other than manually.
>
>
>
> I know JAB had written a very nice platform to do something like this with
> Canopy, again, years ago.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 19, 2016 1:05 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Canopy moving from 1 color code per tower to 1 color
> code per AP
>
>
>
> Hi Gang,
>
>
>
> due to historical reasons that are no longer valid we currently have 1
> color code assigned to all APs per tower.  I'd like to move to 1 color code
> per AP.  However, this would require first gathering all the data from the
> SMs as to which AP is their best, which is second best and which is third
> best (we often have multiple APs aimed in almost the same direction).  We
> have hundreds of APs and thousands of SMs so having a monkey log into each
> SM and log this data would probably take a couple lifetimes haha.
>
>
>
> Before I go hire someone to write some scripts and create a database to
> get this project going, I was wondering if any of you have already done
> this and if you have any software tools you'd be willing to share/sell.
>
>
>
> Also if anyone else is thinking of doing this would you want to go in on
> the development together? (if no one else has accomplished this)
>
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
>
> -Sean
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Adam Moffett]

12 seconds with a dead short, or 12 seconds when slightly over current?
That might be two different answers.



On 3/21/2016 4:17 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yeah, it does sound a bit pointless.
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:16 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
12 seconds for a fuse to pop???  How is that event a fuse.  That 
sounds pointless.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:


The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The
AP or wiring would be the cause.
The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to 
protect the power supply and other loads in parallel.

Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.
If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that
are off the same power supply.
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

Well, they have their downside.
A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.
But, if a fuse is blown, then you have to fix the circuit and
find a replacement fuse.
I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the
LED should come back to full brightness.
Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room,
fuses and fuse holders are more money.
*From:* Bill Prince 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses
the 5x20mm glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy
sites that use the automotive blade fuses.

If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same
form factor would be nice.  Anyone else using those same
DIN clip fuse holders have the same.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett
> wrote:

I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a
replaceable fuse I do like the automotive blades
because every gas station has them.


On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of
my rack mount POE surge suppressors.
I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state
fuses.  I don’t  recall ever designing one in to
anything.
Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that
would have been to satisfy a regulatory agency only.
Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp
“hold current” the “always trip” current is 2 amps.
Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to
trip at any current over the rating if you wait long
enough.
For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to
have a design value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
But then it takes double that to actually trip..
And then there is leakage current required to keep
it in the tripped 

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

You need to look at the curve on the polyfuse.  Because the trip is related
to heating which is related to current it will trip much faster in many
circumstances. ...  however the trip current varies widely with ambient
temperature as well.

I'm not convinced that you can actually find a polyfuse which will protect
Ethernet magnetics.
On Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or
> wiring would be the cause.
>
> The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to  protect
> the power supply and other loads in parallel.
> Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.
>
> If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off
> the same power supply.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
>
> Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> Well, they have their downside.
>> A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
>> A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
>> More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.
>>
>> But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a
>> replacement fuse.
>> I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should
>> come back to full brightness.
>>
>> Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>
>> Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse
>>> holders are more money.
>>>
>>> *From:* Bill Prince 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>>
>>> Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm
>>> glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the
>>> automotive blade fuses.
>>>
>>> If something new came along, we would use what it uses.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor would
>>> be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the same.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do like
 the automotive blades because every gas station has them.


 On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

 I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE
 surge suppressors.

 I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t
 recall ever designing one in to anything.
 Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to
 satisfy a regulatory agency only.

 Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” the
 “always trip” current is 2 amps.
 Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any current
 over the rating if you wait long enough.

 For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design
 value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
 But then it takes double that to actually trip..

 And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped
 condition.
 It does not totally break the circuit.

 They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders.
 Could do auto blade fuses too.

 Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.

 Anyone have strong opinions about this?



>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Canopy moving from 1 color code per tower to 1 color code per AP

[Adam Moffett]

I don't think you need to reboot the SM's.  When you shut off the omni, 
they will rescan.


At step 5, Add the new color code as primary color code, and the current 
one as a secondary, then reboot SM.
At step 6 reboot all AP's at the same time, but again no need to reboot 
the SM's.



On 3/21/2016 4:23 PM, Darren Shea wrote:


It’s been a while, but I remember my steps (going from one omni to 
multiple sectors) being like this:


1.Put up new sectors, but don’t turn on transmit

2.Set all new APs to the same color code as the omni. Grab a snapshot 
of all connected SMs from the omni


3.Reboot all SM’s (Perl script using SNMP and proxy IP), while at the 
same time turning on the transmit on the new sectors, and off on the omni


4.Make sure (after a reasonable time) that each SM has registered 
(with a good signal level, of course), if so…


5.Under the assumption that each SM has chosen the best AP available, 
program the appropriate new color code into each of the SMs connected 
to each sector (another perl script using SNMP and the proxy IP).


6.After double-checking everything, set the new sector color codes and 
reboot all simultaneously


7.Verify all SMs are registered, and you’re done!

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
*Sent:* Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:14 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Canopy moving from 1 color code per tower to 1 
color code per AP


I think you could add secondary and tertiary color codes to the AP’s, 
then just go through the SM’s and change their CC to whatever works 
best for them.


I seem to recall doing that often years ago, but not sure if there is 
an easier way other than manually.


I know JAB had written a very nice platform to do something like this 
with Canopy, again, years ago.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
*Sent:* Saturday, March 19, 2016 1:05 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org 

*Subject:* [AFMUG] Canopy moving from 1 color code per tower to 1 
color code per AP


Hi Gang,

due to historical reasons that are no longer valid we currently have 1 
color code assigned to all APs per tower.  I'd like to move to 1 color 
code per AP.  However, this would require first gathering all the data 
from the SMs as to which AP is their best, which is second best and 
which is third best (we often have multiple APs aimed in almost the 
same direction).  We have hundreds of APs and thousands of SMs so 
having a monkey log into each SM and log this data would probably take 
a couple lifetimes haha.


Before I go hire someone to write some scripts and create a database 
to get this project going, I was wondering if any of you have already 
done this and if you have any software tools you'd be willing to 
share/sell.


Also if anyone else is thinking of doing this would you want to go in 
on the development together? (if no one else has accomplished this)


thanks,

-Sean

Re: [AFMUG] Canopy moving from 1 color code per tower to 1 color code per AP

[Darren Shea]

It’s been a while, but I remember my steps (going from one omni to multiple 
sectors) being like this:

 

1. Put up new sectors, but don’t turn on transmit

2. Set all new APs to the same color code as the omni. Grab a snapshot of 
all connected SMs from the omni

3. Reboot all SM’s (Perl script using SNMP and proxy IP), while at the same 
time turning on the transmit on the new sectors, and off on the omni

4. Make sure (after a reasonable time) that each SM has registered (with a 
good signal level, of course), if so…

5. Under the assumption that each SM has chosen the best AP available, 
program the appropriate new color code into each of the SMs connected to each 
sector (another perl script using SNMP and the proxy IP).

6. After double-checking everything, set the new sector color codes and 
reboot all simultaneously

7. Verify all SMs are registered, and you’re done!

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Canopy moving from 1 color code per tower to 1 color code 
per AP

 

I think you could add secondary and tertiary color codes to the AP’s, then just 
go through the SM’s and change their CC to whatever works best for them.

 

I seem to recall doing that often years ago, but not sure if there is an easier 
way other than manually.

 

I know JAB had written a very nice platform to do something like this with 
Canopy, again, years ago.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 1:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [AFMUG] Canopy moving from 1 color code per tower to 1 color code per 
AP

 

Hi Gang,

 

due to historical reasons that are no longer valid we currently have 1 color 
code assigned to all APs per tower.  I'd like to move to 1 color code per AP.  
However, this would require first gathering all the data from the SMs as to 
which AP is their best, which is second best and which is third best (we often 
have multiple APs aimed in almost the same direction).  We have hundreds of APs 
and thousands of SMs so having a monkey log into each SM and log this data 
would probably take a couple lifetimes haha.

 

Before I go hire someone to write some scripts and create a database to get 
this project going, I was wondering if any of you have already done this and if 
you have any software tools you'd be willing to share/sell.

 

Also if anyone else is thinking of doing this would you want to go in on the 
development together? (if no one else has accomplished this)

 

thanks,

 

-Sean

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah, it does sound a bit pointless.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

12 seconds for a fuse to pop???  How is that event a fuse.  That sounds 
pointless.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or 
wiring would be the cause.

  The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to  protect 
the power supply and other loads in parallel.
  Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.  

  If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off the 
same power supply.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Well, they have their downside.
A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.  
More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.  

But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a 
replacement fuse.  
I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should 
come back to full brightness.  

Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse 
holders are more money.  

  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm 
glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the automotive 
blade fuses.

  If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor 
would be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the 
same.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do 
like the automotive blades because every gas station has them.



  On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount 
POE surge suppressors.

I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t  
recall ever designing one in to anything.
Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been 
to satisfy a regulatory agency only.  

Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” 
the “always trip” current is 2 amps. 
Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any 
current over the rating if you wait long enough.  

For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design 
value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
But then it takes double that to actually trip..  

And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the 
tripped condition.  
It does not totally break the circuit.

They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse 
holders.  
Could do auto blade fuses too.  

Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.  

Anyone have strong opinions about this?

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Josh Luthman]

12 seconds for a fuse to pop???  How is that event a fuse.  That sounds
pointless.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or
> wiring would be the cause.
>
> The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to  protect
> the power supply and other loads in parallel.
> Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.
>
> If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off
> the same power supply.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
>
> Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> Well, they have their downside.
>> A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
>> A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
>> More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.
>>
>> But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a
>> replacement fuse.
>> I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should
>> come back to full brightness.
>>
>> Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>
>> Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse
>>> holders are more money.
>>>
>>> *From:* Bill Prince 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>>
>>> Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm
>>> glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the
>>> automotive blade fuses.
>>>
>>> If something new came along, we would use what it uses.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor would
>>> be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the same.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do like
 the automotive blades because every gas station has them.


 On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

 I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE
 surge suppressors.

 I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t
 recall ever designing one in to anything.
 Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to
 satisfy a regulatory agency only.

 Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” the
 “always trip” current is 2 amps.
 Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any current
 over the rating if you wait long enough.

 For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design
 value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
 But then it takes double that to actually trip..

 And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped
 condition.
 It does not totally break the circuit.

 They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders.
 Could do auto blade fuses too.

 Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.

 Anyone have strong opinions about this?



>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Chuck McCown]

The poe card would not be the cause, it would be the victim.  The AP or wiring 
would be the cause.

The polyfuse I am looking at takes 12 seconds to blow.  Trying to  protect the 
power supply and other loads in parallel.
Not sure if that is fast enough to be of great value.  

If one AP shorts out, you don’t want it taking down others that are off the 
same power supply.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Well, they have their downside.
  A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
  A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.  
  More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.  

  But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a 
replacement fuse.  
  I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should come 
back to full brightness.  

  Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse 
holders are more money.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm glass 
fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the automotive blade 
fuses.

If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor would 
be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the same.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do like 
the automotive blades because every gas station has them.



On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE 
surge suppressors.

  I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t  
recall ever designing one in to anything.
  Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to 
satisfy a regulatory agency only.  

  Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” 
the “always trip” current is 2 amps. 
  Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any 
current over the rating if you wait long enough.  

  For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design 
value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
  But then it takes double that to actually trip..  

  And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped 
condition.  
  It does not totally break the circuit.

  They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders. 
 
  Could do auto blade fuses too.  

  Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.  

  Anyone have strong opinions about this?

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Josh Luthman]

Meh just replace the card if it's being troublesome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mar 21, 2016 4:05 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Well, they have their downside.
> A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
> A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.
> More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.
>
> But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a
> replacement fuse.
> I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should
> come back to full brightness.
>
> Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
> Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse
>> holders are more money.
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>>
>> Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm
>> glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the
>> automotive blade fuses.
>>
>> If something new came along, we would use what it uses.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor would
>> be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the same.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do like
>>> the automotive blades because every gas station has them.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
>>> I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE
>>> surge suppressors.
>>>
>>> I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t
>>> recall ever designing one in to anything.
>>> Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to
>>> satisfy a regulatory agency only.
>>>
>>> Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” the
>>> “always trip” current is 2 amps.
>>> Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any current
>>> over the rating if you wait long enough.
>>>
>>> For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design value
>>> of greater than 1 amp hold current.
>>> But then it takes double that to actually trip..
>>>
>>> And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped
>>> condition.
>>> It does not totally break the circuit.
>>>
>>> They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders.
>>> Could do auto blade fuses too.
>>>
>>> Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.
>>>
>>> Anyone have strong opinions about this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Josh Reynolds]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000796XXM/ref=pd_aw_sim_sbs_121_4?ie=UTF8=51LrKbS8ajL=sims=_AC_UL100_SR100%2C94_=1D7P8EXSA81VMW21P0RA
On Mar 21, 2016 3:01 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:

>
> http://www.amazon.com/Passion-Natural-Water-Based-Lubricant-Gallon/dp/B005MR3IVO
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> These things were at the bottom of that link...
>>
>> (I'm such a child)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 1:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> > My local grocery store carries spotted dick in a can:
>> > http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FP5K0U
>> >
>> > Take a look at Amazon's "customers who bought this also bought"
>> > recommendation.
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>> > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:27 PM
>> >
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>> >
>> > Hey hey hey, there's nothing wrong with bangers and mash :(
>> >
>> > http://www.cookitsimply.com/recipe-0010-04s627.html :P
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Well, duh, that’s because fish-and-chips and curry are the only edible
>> >> foods
>> >> prepared in England.  Unless you consider things like toad-in-the-hole,
>> >> bubble-and-squeak, bangers-and-mash, and mushy peas edible.
>> >>
>> >> I am convinced it comes from the English disdain for anything French.
>> Good
>> >> food would seem too French.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: Faisal Imtiaz
>> >> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:07 PM
>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>> >>
>> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/30926.stm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> :)
>> >>
>> >> Faisal Imtiaz
>> >> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> >> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> >> Miami, FL 33155
>> >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>> >>
>> >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> From: "Josh Reynolds" 
>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>> >> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:56:03 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>> >>
>> >> Curry?
>> >>
>> >> Well, yeah... That's like, just your opinion, man.
>> >>
>> >> On Mar 21, 2016 12:18 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Oye, Gov everything is changing...
>> >>> Wat eef I said I like my scones with curry !
>> >>>
>> >>> that'll blow some minds !
>> >>>
>> >>> :)
>> >>>
>> >>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> >>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> >>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> >>> Miami, FL 33155
>> >>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>> >>>
>> >>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> >>> To: af@afmug.com
>> >>> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:09:21 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>> >>>
>> >>> The butter must be applied directly to a warm Scone.
>> >>> It melts and soaks in and waterproofs it so the jam and jelly don’t
>> get
>> >>> absorbed to make is soggy.
>> >>>
>> >>> This will not make me popular with my daughter and her family in
>> >>> Cornwall,
>> >>> but sometimes your kids are just plain wrong.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Faisal Imtiaz
>> >>> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:05 AM
>> >>> To: af@afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>> >>>
>> >>> LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter,
>> >>> Jam
>> >>> and Jelly... in any order
>> >>>
>> >>> :)
>> >>>
>> >>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> >>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> >>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> >>> Miami, FL 33155
>> >>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>> >>>
>> >>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> >>> To: af@afmug.com
>> >>> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>> >>>
>> >>> Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world...
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Faisal Imtiaz
>> >>> Stay fearful my friend.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Chuck McCown]

Well, they have their downside.
A real fuse will be easier to notice when it is blown.
A poly fuse just cuts the current way down.  
More of a troubleshooting issue than anything else.  

But, if a fuse is blown,  then you have to fix the circuit and find a 
replacement fuse.  
I do have LEDs and by unplugging the short circuit cable the LED should come 
back to full brightness.  

Just thinking out loud here.  Want to make the right choice.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse holders 
are more money.  

  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

  Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm glass 
fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the automotive blade 
fuses.

  If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor would be 
nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the same.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

  I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do like 
the automotive blades because every gas station has them.



  On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE 
surge suppressors.

I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t  
recall ever designing one in to anything.
Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to 
satisfy a regulatory agency only.  

Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” the 
“always trip” current is 2 amps. 
Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any current 
over the rating if you wait long enough.  

For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design 
value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
But then it takes double that to actually trip..  

And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped 
condition.  
It does not totally break the circuit.

They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders.  
Could do auto blade fuses too.  

Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.  

Anyone have strong opinions about this?

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Josh Luthman]

Cheaper to run a polyfuse...why bother asking???


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse
> holders are more money.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question
>
> Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm
> glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the
> automotive blade fuses.
>
> If something new came along, we would use what it uses.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor would
> be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the same.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do like
>> the automotive blades because every gas station has them.
>>
>>
>> On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE
>> surge suppressors.
>>
>> I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t
>> recall ever designing one in to anything.
>> Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to
>> satisfy a regulatory agency only.
>>
>> Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” the
>> “always trip” current is 2 amps.
>> Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any current
>> over the rating if you wait long enough.
>>
>> For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design value
>> of greater than 1 amp hold current.
>> But then it takes double that to actually trip..
>>
>> And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped
>> condition.
>> It does not totally break the circuit.
>>
>> They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders.
>> Could do auto blade fuses too.
>>
>> Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.
>>
>> Anyone have strong opinions about this?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Chuck McCown]

Still leaning toward the polyfuse.  Not a lot of room, fuses and fuse holders 
are more money.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm glass 
fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the automotive blade 
fuses.

If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor would be 
nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the same.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do like the 
automotive blades because every gas station has them.



On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE 
surge suppressors.

  I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t  
recall ever designing one in to anything.
  Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to 
satisfy a regulatory agency only.  

  Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” the 
“always trip” current is 2 amps. 
  Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any current 
over the rating if you wait long enough.  

  For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design value 
of greater than 1 amp hold current.
  But then it takes double that to actually trip..  

  And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped 
condition.  
  It does not totally break the circuit.

  They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders.  
  Could do auto blade fuses too.  

  Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.  

  Anyone have strong opinions about this?

[AFMUG] OT Corny Video

[Chuck McCown]

Got  a small tour of Dixie State University yesterday.  One of my sons is a 
student in the computer forensics program.  Part of the Southwest Regional 
Computer Crime Institute.  Had a fun conversation with him about cracking 
encryption.  You really want a long random password if you do not want to be 
cracked.  

Their lab has robots that will brute force an iPhone with key presses and 
interrupting the current between each try etc etc.  They do a lot of work for 
law enforcement there and students can get free certification as a law 
enforcement professional as part of the course.  

They have a real corny video about  the program:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=agZVrtzSgXU

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Bill Prince]

Most of ours are now the DIN-mounted double feed that uses the 5x20mm 
glass fuses. However, we also have a few legacy sites that use the 
automotive blade fuses.


If something new came along, we would use what it uses.

bp


On 3/21/2016 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor 
would be nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders 
have the same.



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do
like the automotive blades because every gas station has them.


On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount
POE surge suppressors.
I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I
don’t  recall ever designing one in to anything.
Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been
to satisfy a regulatory agency only.
Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold
current” the “always trip” current is 2 amps.
Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any
current over the rating if you wait long enough.
For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a
design value of greater than 1 amp hold current.
But then it takes double that to actually trip..
And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the
tripped condition.
It does not totally break the circuit.
They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse
holders.
Could do auto blade fuses too.
Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.
Anyone have strong opinions about this?

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Josh Luthman]

We already stock 5x20mm fuses so keeping with the same form factor would be
nice.  Anyone else using those same DIN clip fuse holders have the same.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do like
> the automotive blades because every gas station has them.
>
>
> On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE surge
> suppressors.
>
> I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t  recall
> ever designing one in to anything.
> Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to
> satisfy a regulatory agency only.
>
> Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” the
> “always trip” current is 2 amps.
> Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any current
> over the rating if you wait long enough.
>
> For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design value
> of greater than 1 amp hold current.
> But then it takes double that to actually trip..
>
> And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped
> condition.
> It does not totally break the circuit.
>
> They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders.
> Could do auto blade fuses too.
>
> Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.
>
> Anyone have strong opinions about this?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Adam Moffett]

I have no strong opinions sir, but if it's a replaceable fuse I do like 
the automotive blades because every gas station has them.



On 3/21/2016 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE 
surge suppressors.
I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t  
recall ever designing one in to anything.
Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to 
satisfy a regulatory agency only.
Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” 
the “always trip” current is 2 amps.
Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any 
current over the rating if you wait long enough.
For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design 
value of greater than 1 amp hold current.

But then it takes double that to actually trip..
And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped 
condition.

It does not totally break the circuit.
They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders.
Could do auto blade fuses too.
Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.
Anyone have strong opinions about this?

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Eric Kuhnke]

I really doubt anyone is counterfeiting PA modules for the 7206VXR
considering how old the platform is.
On Mar 20, 2016 5:16 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> WIC, NM, PA, etc.  Plug in card for a modular router.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2016 7:08 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
>
> Define module?
> On Mar 20, 2016 6:56 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> I’m not sure I equate “previously owned” with “grey market”.  And if
>> Cisco had a problem with it, they didn’t have to sell you a Smartnet
>> contract for the used gear.  Pretty good actually selling a full year HW/SW
>> maintenance contract just so you can upgrade the SW.
>>
>> What I won’t do is buy the “new” Cisco modules from Hong Kong that are
>> probably counterfeit.  Even if they are made from the same parts in the
>> same factory.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2016 5:23 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>
>> I *never* *ever* did that...
>>
>> On 03/20/2016 02:17 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Funny, how many of us bought the cheapest Cisco thing we could find and
>> registered it so we could get fresh software for the grey market more
>> expensive routers we deployed hmmm
>>
>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2016 2:50 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>
>> I really don't see the point of trying to prevent shipments of
>> telecom/IT/networking equipment to Iran, or punishing anybody for selling
>> telecom/IT/networking gear to Iran:
>>
>>
>> 1) If people in Iran really want the stuff they will simply arrange a way
>> to buy it from Dubai.
>>
>> 2) Isn't it a good thing to ship any sort of computer/networking/ISP gear
>> into Iran?  There's a very active community of Iranians who have come up
>> with local Farsi language documents/training guides and information on how
>> to run Tor, how to get around government internet censorship, move VPN
>> traffic through their ISPs' blackholes. Iranians want to read unfettered
>> media. The US government has a whole Farsi language division funded from
>> the Voice of America/BBG (Broadcasting Board of Governors) that is trying
>> to reach Iranians.  There are a shitload of Iranians that want to use
>> Facebook, Whatsapp, Skype, etc.  More communication with the outside world
>> is good.
>>
>> http://www.radiofarda.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You are familiar with Cisco developing products to aid in China's
>>> internet snooping and repression, right?
>>> On Mar 20, 2016 12:16 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>>
 Recent article raises suspicions Huawei violated Iran sanctions.


 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/technology/zte-document-raises-questions-about-huawei-and-sanctions.html?_r=0

 Although expecting Chinese companies to obey our sanctions against Iran
 and not use tricks to get around them is probably unrealistic.  But it’s a
 little humorous reading how ZTE copied the tricks of an unnamed company
 that is clearly Huawei.


 *From:* Mike Hammett 
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:44 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

 Some of it is bull, but the blatant duplication of Cisco is
 indisputable.



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 
 
 Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 
 
 The Brothers WISP 
 


 
 --
 *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *Sent: *Saturday, March 19, 2016 6:44:02 PM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

 Has anybody taken a look at the number of government employees China
 has by any chance? What about the number of DoD and general federal
 workforce? Do those members of the workforce - do their policies and
 beliefs fall 100% in line with things the government as a whole says or
 does?

 You guys realize that half the shit you've heard about Huawei was
 bullshit put for by our government who were acting as mouthpieces for Cisco
 which was later RECANTED by our own 

Re: [AFMUG] Fuse question

[Jeremy]

We use blade fuses on all of our sites.  We fuse the dc before feeding it
into the GIGE-POE-APC.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE surge
> suppressors.
>
> I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t  recall
> ever designing one in to anything.
> Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to
> satisfy a regulatory agency only.
>
> Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” the
> “always trip” current is 2 amps.
> Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any current
> over the rating if you wait long enough.
>
> For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design value
> of greater than 1 amp hold current.
> But then it takes double that to actually trip..
>
> And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped
> condition.
> It does not totally break the circuit.
>
> They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders.
> Could do auto blade fuses too.
>
> Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.
>
> Anyone have strong opinions about this?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Jason McKemie]

Thai curry is pretty amazing IMO.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Curry is gross.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Faisal Imtiaz" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, March 21, 2016 12:18:14 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
> Oye, Gov everything is changing...
> Wat eef I said I like my scones with curry !
>
> that'll blow some minds !
>
> :)
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Chuck McCown" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, March 21, 2016 1:09:21 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
> The butter must be applied directly to a warm Scone.
> It melts and soaks in and waterproofs it so the jam and jelly don’t get
> absorbed to make is soggy.
>
> This will not make me popular with my daughter and her family in Cornwall,
> but sometimes your kids are just plain wrong.
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 11:05 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
> LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter, Jam
> and Jelly... in any order
>
> :)
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Chuck McCown" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
> Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world...
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz 
> Stay fearful my friend.
>
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Fuse question

[Chuck McCown]

I am considering adding a fuse to a new version of my rack mount POE surge 
suppressors.

I know many of you like PTC resettable solid state fuses.  I don’t  recall ever 
designing one in to anything.
Maybe I did on a phone device years ago, but that would have been to satisfy a 
regulatory agency only.  

Studying up on them I learn that if you have a 1 amp “hold current” the “always 
trip” current is 2 amps. 
Not like a fuse, which is pretty well guaranteed to trip at any current over 
the rating if you wait long enough.  

For a polyfuse, if your load is one amp, you have to have a design value of 
greater than 1 amp hold current.
But then it takes double that to actually trip..  

And then there is leakage current required to keep it in the tripped condition. 
 
It does not totally break the circuit.

They are fairly inexpensive compared to glass fuses and fuse holders.  
Could do auto blade fuses too.  

Not sure I have the room for anything but a polyfuse though.  

Anyone have strong opinions about this?

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Mike Hammett]

Curry is gross. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Faisal Imtiaz"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 12:18:14 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview 



Oye, Gov everything is changing... 
Wat eef I said I like my scones with curry ! 


that'll blow some minds ! 


:) 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -



From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:09:21 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview 








The butter must be applied directly to a warm Scone. 
It melts and soaks in and waterproofs it so the jam and jelly don’t get 
absorbed to make is soggy. 

This will not make me popular with my daughter and her family in Cornwall, but 
sometimes your kids are just plain wrong. 




From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:05 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview 



LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter, Jam and 
Jelly... in any order 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
- Original Message -



From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview 








Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world... 




From: Faisal Imtiaz 

Stay fearful my friend. 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Chuck McCown]

I like mushy peas.  Fresh off-the-boat North Atlantic cod fish and chips are 
the best.  I’ll be having some late summer.  Have to go to Cornwall for a 
grandson’s baptism.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 12:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

Well, duh, that’s because fish-and-chips and curry are the only edible foods 
prepared in England.  Unless you consider things like toad-in-the-hole, 
bubble-and-squeak, bangers-and-mash, and mushy peas edible.

I am convinced it comes from the English disdain for anything French.  Good 
food would seem too French.


From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/30926.stm


:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:56:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

  Curry?

  Well, yeah... That's like, just your opinion, man.

  On Mar 21, 2016 12:18 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz"  wrote:

Oye, Gov everything is changing... 
Wat eef I said I like my scones with curry !

that'll blow some minds !

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:09:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

  The butter must be applied directly to a warm Scone. 
  It melts and soaks in and waterproofs it so the jam and jelly don’t get 
absorbed to make is soggy.

  This will not make me popular with my daughter and her family in 
Cornwall, but sometimes your kids are just plain wrong. 

  From: Faisal Imtiaz
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:05 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

  LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter, 
Jam and Jelly... in any order

  :)

  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  7266 SW 48 Street
  Miami, FL 33155
  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


--

From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world...

From: Faisal Imtiaz
Stay fearful my friend.

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Ken Hohhof]

Well, duh, that’s because fish-and-chips and curry are the only edible foods 
prepared in England.  Unless you consider things like toad-in-the-hole, 
bubble-and-squeak, bangers-and-mash, and mushy peas edible.

I am convinced it comes from the English disdain for anything French.  Good 
food would seem too French.


From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/30926.stm


:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:56:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

  Curry?

  Well, yeah... That's like, just your opinion, man.

  On Mar 21, 2016 12:18 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz"  wrote:

Oye, Gov everything is changing... 
Wat eef I said I like my scones with curry !

that'll blow some minds !

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:09:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

  The butter must be applied directly to a warm Scone. 
  It melts and soaks in and waterproofs it so the jam and jelly don’t get 
absorbed to make is soggy.

  This will not make me popular with my daughter and her family in 
Cornwall, but sometimes your kids are just plain wrong. 

  From: Faisal Imtiaz
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:05 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

  LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter, 
Jam and Jelly... in any order

  :)

  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  7266 SW 48 Street
  Miami, FL 33155
  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


--

From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world...

From: Faisal Imtiaz
Stay fearful my friend.

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Josh Reynolds]

*sigh*

I need to go back to England sometime soon. I have a cousin that's a
professor there.

I miss the pubs, the architecture, the history, the fish and chips... The
curry was pretty good too ;)
On Mar 21, 2016 1:07 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz"  wrote:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/30926.stm
>
>
> :)
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, March 21, 2016 1:56:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
> Curry?
>
> Well, yeah... That's like, just your opinion, man.
> On Mar 21, 2016 12:18 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" 
> wrote:
>
>> Oye, Gov everything is changing...
>> Wat eef I said I like my scones with curry !
>>
>> that'll blow some minds !
>>
>> :)
>>
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>
>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Chuck McCown" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, March 21, 2016 1:09:21 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>
>> The butter must be applied directly to a warm Scone.
>> It melts and soaks in and waterproofs it so the jam and jelly don’t get
>> absorbed to make is soggy.
>>
>> This will not make me popular with my daughter and her family in
>> Cornwall, but sometimes your kids are just plain wrong.
>>
>> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 11:05 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>
>> LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter,
>> Jam and Jelly... in any order
>>
>> :)
>>
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>
>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Chuck McCown" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>
>> Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world...
>>
>> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz 
>> Stay fearful my friend.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Faisal Imtiaz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/30926.stm 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Josh Reynolds" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:56:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> Curry?

> Well, yeah... That's like, just your opinion, man.
> On Mar 21, 2016 12:18 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" < fai...@snappytelecom.net > wrote:

>> Oye, Gov everything is changing...
>> Wat eef I said I like my scones with curry !

>> that'll blow some minds !

>> :)

>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com >
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:09:21 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

>>> The butter must be applied directly to a warm Scone.
>>> It melts and soaks in and waterproofs it so the jam and jelly don’t get 
>>> absorbed
>>> to make is soggy.
>>> This will not make me popular with my daughter and her family in Cornwall, 
>>> but
>>> sometimes your kids are just plain wrong.
>>> From: Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:05 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>> LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter, Jam 
>>> and
>>> Jelly... in any order
>>> :)
>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

 From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com >
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

 Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world...
 From: Faisal Imtiaz
 Stay fearful my friend.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: cool truck

[Bill Prince]

Was that chapel in a Sergio Leon movie?

bp


On 3/21/2016 10:53 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


My cousins Fargo with a Suburban diesel engine and 4 x 4 
undercarriage... which will be installed this week!   Chapel in back 
was built by grandfather in 1922!!!  We are restoring my grandparents 
Adobe home for family parties.  Surrounded by huge apple orchards and 
mountains.

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT Trump in Utah

[Bill Prince]

When is their giga-factory coming online?

I'm suspecting they will be selling more batteries in terms of revenue 
than cars.


bp


On 3/21/2016 10:42 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not nearly sure as I am of TSLA, up 14% in the last three weeks.
I am betting it takes a big jump at the end of the month too.
Sometimes I guess right on a  gamble.
*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 11:38 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
Because I am less sure of winning than you are.
But certainly willing to bet if I get odds.
How sure are you??? ;-)
*From:* Travis Johnson 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 11:30 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
Why would I give you odds? $100 bet, clean and simple. :)

Travis

On 3/21/2016 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yeah but I want odds.  2:1?
*From:* Travis Johnson 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 11:09 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
I'll put up $100... the bet being that Utah will vote Red, regardless 
of the candidate?


Travis


On 3/21/2016 11:00 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

So, are you giving odds?  I have $100.
*From:* Travis Johnson 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:58 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we 
will never support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states 
will be Red... as always.


I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a 
LONG time... let each candidate say what he will do on every 
subject, and not be associated with these "parties" that really 
don't mean anything anymore. Republicans used to believe "this", but 
now, 20 years later, they now believe "this". The parties have no 
real value or benefit, other than to keep thousands of people employed.


Travis


On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is 
GOP candidate.


Have you been watching the news?

It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for 
Trump.


Even if it’s Hilary.

And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman 
president, but maybe I’m wrong.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet 
Utah has voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I 
think it's a lot like Idaho, that many people check the first 
"Republican" box on the first page, and never turn the book to even 
see who that is or what they even stand for.


Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would 
vote for Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 
50% Mormon, where they don't allow women to hold any real 
leadership positions?


Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for 
the last 40 years.


Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto
insurance industry or perhaps a retired school principal?

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the
legislative process and some military experience.

Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for
on a resume.

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe
some of the hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are
100 year ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.

This is what he said after the Trump speech:

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did
something and said something that I never thought I'd see a
candidate for president do and say, especially someone in the
Republican Party."

"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person
running for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you
question his politics, he can question your religion. I have a
message for the 3 million people in Utah for Mr. Donald Trump:
That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we roll in
the United States of America."

*From:*Travis Johnson 

*Sent:*Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else
running is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or
has wanted to be, their entire life. Nobody else is going to
make any REAL changes. It's time for something different.

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY
think... instead of giving lip 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: cool truck

[Chuck McCown]

Seems like they made a movie about that chapel.  Some nuns and a black guy...

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:53 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: cool truck

My cousins Fargo with a Suburban diesel engine and 4 x 4 undercarriage... which 
will be installed this week!   Chapel in back was built by grandfather in 
1922!!!  We are restoring my grandparents Adobe home for family parties.  
Surrounded by huge apple orchards and mountains.  

Re: [AFMUG] Winbox 3.3

[Bill Prince]

I've not seen anything like that (crashing). It's been stable. Operates 
a little differently than 2.x, and I've seen some compatibility between 
it and 2.x. So maybe if we just switch everything over to 3.x it's OK? 
The weirdness has mostly come inter-operating with mac-winbox, and who 
knows for sure what its pedigree is?


bp


On 3/21/2016 10:39 AM, George Skorup wrote:
3.3 seems to be working fine for me on everything, even the 5.25/26 
routers out there. No menu issues. Windows 10 on all of my machines. 
I'm surprised, really expected it to be crashing or something else 
stupid.


On 3/21/2016 10:05 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote:
I'm running 3.1 mostly without issue. My only problem is when 
connecting to routers that are on 5.x. There are menu items missing, 
stuff like the routing tab aren't there. But when connecting to 6.x 
routers it has been working perfectly for me.


BTW: I'm running it under Wine on a Debian box.

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Josh Reynolds]

Curry?

Well, yeah... That's like, just your opinion, man.
On Mar 21, 2016 12:18 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz"  wrote:

> Oye, Gov everything is changing...
> Wat eef I said I like my scones with curry !
>
> that'll blow some minds !
>
> :)
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Chuck McCown" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, March 21, 2016 1:09:21 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
> The butter must be applied directly to a warm Scone.
> It melts and soaks in and waterproofs it so the jam and jelly don’t get
> absorbed to make is soggy.
>
> This will not make me popular with my daughter and her family in Cornwall,
> but sometimes your kids are just plain wrong.
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 11:05 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
> LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter, Jam
> and Jelly... in any order
>
> :)
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Chuck McCown" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>
> Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world...
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz 
> Stay fearful my friend.
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Ken Hohhof]

You should bet copies of your books.

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 12:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Because I am less sure of winning than you are.  
But certainly willing to bet if I get odds.  
How sure are you??? ;-)

From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Why would I give you odds? $100 bet, clean and simple. :)

Travis


On 3/21/2016 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Yeah but I want odds.  2:1?  

  From: Travis Johnson 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:09 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

  I'll put up $100... the bet being that Utah will vote Red, regardless of the 
candidate?

  Travis



  On 3/21/2016 11:00 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

So, are you giving odds?  I have $100.  

From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we will 
never support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states will be Red... 
as always.

I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a LONG 
time... let each candidate say what he will do on every subject, and not be 
associated with these "parties" that really don't mean anything anymore. 
Republicans used to believe "this", but now, 20 years later, they now believe 
"this". The parties have no real value or benefit, other than to keep thousands 
of people employed.

Travis



On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

  Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP 
candidate.

   

  Have you been watching the news?

   

  It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

   

  Even if it’s Hilary. 

   

  And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, 
but maybe I’m wrong.

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah 
has voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot 
like Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first 
page, and never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand 
for.

  Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

  Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the 
last 40 years.

  Travis

  On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?  

 

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.  

Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a 
resume.  

 

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of 
the hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth. 

 

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year 
ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.  

This is what he said after the Trump speech:

 

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something 
and said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do 
and say, especially someone in the Republican Party."

"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running 
for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he 
can question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah 
for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we 
roll in the United States of America."

 

 

From: Travis Johnson 

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running 
is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their 
entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for 
something different. 

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... 
instead of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then 
having them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he 
thinks.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Bill Prince]

just like you know who

bp


On 3/21/2016 9:51 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
yeah, and everybody is moving to canada too. what people say they will 
do, and what they actually do arent even part of the same sport

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement

[Sterling Jacobson]

Send them to me too if you don’t mind!


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement

That would be helpful if you wouldn't mind.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 12:44 PM, LD Barthlome 
> wrote:
I could send you ours

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement

Anyone have one of these they would be able to share?  I thought Chuck Hogg 
posted one a while back, but I can't seem to find it.  Thanks.

Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement

[Jason McKemie]

That would be helpful if you wouldn't mind.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 12:44 PM, LD Barthlome  wrote:

> I could send you ours
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement
>
>
>
> Anyone have one of these they would be able to share?  I thought Chuck
> Hogg posted one a while back, but I can't seem to find it.  Thanks.
>
>
>
> Jason
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement

[LD Barthlome]

I could send you ours

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement

Anyone have one of these they would be able to share?  I thought Chuck Hogg 
posted one a while back, but I can't seem to find it.  Thanks.

Jason

[AFMUG] Fw: OT Trump in Utah

[Chuck McCown]

Not nearly sure as I am of TSLA, up 14% in the last three weeks.  
I am betting it takes a big jump at the end of the month too.  
Sometimes I guess right on a  gamble.  


From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Because I am less sure of winning than you are.  
But certainly willing to bet if I get odds.  
How sure are you??? ;-)

From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Why would I give you odds? $100 bet, clean and simple. :)

Travis


On 3/21/2016 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Yeah but I want odds.  2:1?  

  From: Travis Johnson 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:09 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

  I'll put up $100... the bet being that Utah will vote Red, regardless of the 
candidate?

  Travis



  On 3/21/2016 11:00 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

So, are you giving odds?  I have $100.  

From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we will 
never support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states will be Red... 
as always.

I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a LONG 
time... let each candidate say what he will do on every subject, and not be 
associated with these "parties" that really don't mean anything anymore. 
Republicans used to believe "this", but now, 20 years later, they now believe 
"this". The parties have no real value or benefit, other than to keep thousands 
of people employed.

Travis



On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

  Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP 
candidate.

   

  Have you been watching the news?

   

  It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

   

  Even if it’s Hilary. 

   

  And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, 
but maybe I’m wrong.

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah 
has voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot 
like Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first 
page, and never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand 
for.

  Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

  Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the 
last 40 years.

  Travis

  On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?  

 

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.  

Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a 
resume.  

 

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of 
the hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth. 

 

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year 
ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.  

This is what he said after the Trump speech:

 

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something 
and said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do 
and say, especially someone in the Republican Party."

"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running 
for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he 
can question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah 
for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we 
roll in the United States of America."

 

 

From: Travis Johnson 

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running 
is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their 
entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for 
something different. 

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... 
instead of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then 
having them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he 
thinks.

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement

[Jason McKemie]

Just an agreement for installation at the customer's location - to explain
what you're doing, what it is for, and have in writing that both sides
understand.  It could be part of a general contract as well I suppose...

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> What exactly would this be for?
>
>
>
> We have worked an agreement with the city for franchise rights to build in
> PUE.
>
>
>
> We have another template agreement for the HOA board to sign for easement
> access on their property.
>
>
>
> There should probably be an agreement for easement/ROW into private
> property as well, though we haven’t gone that far yet when installing on
> personal property for individual hookup.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement
>
>
>
> Anyone have one of these they would be able to share?  I thought Chuck
> Hogg posted one a while back, but I can't seem to find it.  Thanks.
>
>
>
> Jason
>

Re: [AFMUG] Winbox 3.3

[George Skorup]

3.3 seems to be working fine for me on everything, even the 5.25/26 
routers out there. No menu issues. Windows 10 on all of my machines. I'm 
surprised, really expected it to be crashing or something else stupid.


On 3/21/2016 10:05 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote:

I'm running 3.1 mostly without issue. My only problem is when connecting to 
routers that are on 5.x. There are menu items missing, stuff like the routing 
tab aren't there. But when connecting to 6.x routers it has been working 
perfectly for me.

BTW: I'm running it under Wine on a Debian box.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Chuck McCown]

Because I am less sure of winning than you are.  
But certainly willing to bet if I get odds.  
How sure are you??? ;-)

From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Why would I give you odds? $100 bet, clean and simple. :)

Travis


On 3/21/2016 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Yeah but I want odds.  2:1?  

  From: Travis Johnson 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:09 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

  I'll put up $100... the bet being that Utah will vote Red, regardless of the 
candidate?

  Travis



  On 3/21/2016 11:00 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

So, are you giving odds?  I have $100.  

From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we will 
never support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states will be Red... 
as always.

I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a LONG 
time... let each candidate say what he will do on every subject, and not be 
associated with these "parties" that really don't mean anything anymore. 
Republicans used to believe "this", but now, 20 years later, they now believe 
"this". The parties have no real value or benefit, other than to keep thousands 
of people employed.

Travis



On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

  Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP 
candidate.

   

  Have you been watching the news?

   

  It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

   

  Even if it’s Hilary. 

   

  And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, 
but maybe I’m wrong.

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah 
has voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot 
like Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first 
page, and never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand 
for.

  Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

  Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the 
last 40 years.

  Travis

  On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?  

 

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.  

Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a 
resume.  

 

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of 
the hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth. 

 

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year 
ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.  

This is what he said after the Trump speech:

 

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something 
and said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do 
and say, especially someone in the Republican Party."

"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running 
for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he 
can question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah 
for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we 
roll in the United States of America."

 

 

From: Travis Johnson 

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running 
is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their 
entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for 
something different. 

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... 
instead of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then 
having them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he 
thinks.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the 
country.

  He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

   

  He looks like a megalomaniac bully that 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Travis Johnson]

Why would I give you odds? $100 bet, clean and simple. :)

Travis

On 3/21/2016 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yeah but I want odds.  2:1?
*From:* Travis Johnson 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 11:09 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
I'll put up $100... the bet being that Utah will vote Red, regardless 
of the candidate?


Travis


On 3/21/2016 11:00 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

So, are you giving odds?  I have $100.
*From:* Travis Johnson 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:58 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we 
will never support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states 
will be Red... as always.


I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a 
LONG time... let each candidate say what he will do on every subject, 
and not be associated with these "parties" that really don't mean 
anything anymore. Republicans used to believe "this", but now, 20 
years later, they now believe "this". The parties have no real value 
or benefit, other than to keep thousands of people employed.


Travis


On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP 
candidate.


Have you been watching the news?

It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for 
Trump.


Even if it’s Hilary.

And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman 
president, but maybe I’m wrong.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet 
Utah has voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I 
think it's a lot like Idaho, that many people check the first 
"Republican" box on the first page, and never turn the book to even 
see who that is or what they even stand for.


Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would 
vote for Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% 
Mormon, where they don't allow women to hold any real leadership 
positions?


Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for 
the last 40 years.


Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto
insurance industry or perhaps a retired school principal?

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the
legislative process and some military experience.

Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on
a resume.

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe
some of the hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are
100 year ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.

This is what he said after the Trump speech:

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did
something and said something that I never thought I'd see a
candidate for president do and say, especially someone in the
Republican Party."

"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person
running for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you
question his politics, he can question your religion. I have a
message for the 3 million people in Utah for Mr. Donald Trump:
That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we roll in
the United States of America."

*From:*Travis Johnson 

*Sent:*Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else
running is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has
wanted to be, their entire life. Nobody else is going to make
any REAL changes. It's time for something different.

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY
think... instead of giving lip service for six months before the
election, and then having them not do anything that they said.
At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be
good for the country.

He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social
graces.  I don’t care if he was running for the local
chamber of commerce, you just cannot act like that if you
want to represent me and my interests.

*From:*Jaime Solorza 

*Sent:*Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM

*To:*Animal Farm 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Chuck McCown]

Ha!  That is a good  one.

I wonder, has Trump ever punched it out with anyone ever?  

I just don’t see a rich kid having much opportunity to do that... unless he is 
a bully, but that would be beating someone up while the toadys hold him, not a 
fair fight.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Here is Trump as a superhero comic.  The Incredible Trump!  I like his sidekick.


From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 12:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Yeah but I want odds.  2:1?  

From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

I'll put up $100... the bet being that Utah will vote Red, regardless of the 
candidate?

Travis



On 3/21/2016 11:00 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  So, are you giving odds?  I have $100.  

  From: Travis Johnson 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:58 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

  Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we will 
never support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states will be Red... 
as always.

  I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a LONG 
time... let each candidate say what he will do on every subject, and not be 
associated with these "parties" that really don't mean anything anymore. 
Republicans used to believe "this", but now, 20 years later, they now believe 
"this". The parties have no real value or benefit, other than to keep thousands 
of people employed.

  Travis



  On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP 
candidate.

 

Have you been watching the news?

 

It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

 

Even if it’s Hilary. 

 

And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, but 
maybe I’m wrong.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has 
voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot like 
Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first page, and 
never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand for.

Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last 
40 years.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?  

   

  IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.  

  Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a 
resume.  

   

  Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the 
hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth. 

   

  I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year 
ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.  

  This is what he said after the Trump speech:

   

  "I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and 
said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do and 
say, especially someone in the Republican Party."

  "Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running 
for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he 
can question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah 
for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we 
roll in the United States of America."

   

   

  From: Travis Johnson 

  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running 
is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their 
entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for 
something different. 

  It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... 
instead of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then 
having them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he 
thinks.

  Travis

  On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the 
country.

He may be a super skilled 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Chuck McCown]

After all, we are the only state that has ever sent a Black Republican Woman to 
congress.  

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:17 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

I won’t take that bet because I’m not sure what exactly will happen in a 
Trump/Hillary matchup.

 

It’s the worst case scenario for many of us.

 

Tomorrow’s caucus vote will tell us more, but I would still be unsure of the 
actual outcome.

 

I would like to think being a Woman isn’t an issue.

I haven’t personally met any Utahans that have openly opposed a candidate 
because it’s a she.

 

It’s because she is a Democrat and a Clinton and also because it’s Hillary, lol!

 

I would take Hillary over Trump to ‘negotiate’ foreign affairs.

 

I only see pure disaster on Trump making ‘deals’ with foreign countries.

 

Reverse that and ask any foreigner who they would like to see US president.

I think that swings very heavily in the Hillary direction, right?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

I'll put up $100... the bet being that Utah will vote Red, regardless of the 
candidate?

Travis



On 3/21/2016 11:00 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  So, are you giving odds?  I have $100.  

   

  From: Travis Johnson 

  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:58 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we will 
never support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states will be Red... 
as always.

  I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a LONG 
time... let each candidate say what he will do on every subject, and not be 
associated with these "parties" that really don't mean anything anymore. 
Republicans used to believe "this", but now, 20 years later, they now believe 
"this". The parties have no real value or benefit, other than to keep thousands 
of people employed.

  Travis



  On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP 
candidate.

 

Have you been watching the news?

 

It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

 

Even if it’s Hilary. 

 

And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, but 
maybe I’m wrong.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has 
voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot like 
Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first page, and 
never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand for.

Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last 
40 years.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?  

   

  IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.  

  Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a 
resume.  

   

  Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the 
hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth. 

   

  I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year 
ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.  

  This is what he said after the Trump speech:

   

  "I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and 
said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do and 
say, especially someone in the Republican Party."

  "Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running 
for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he 
can question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah 
for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we 
roll in the United States of America."

   

   

  From: Travis Johnson 

  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running 
is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their 
entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Sterling Jacobson]

I won’t take that bet because I’m not sure what exactly will happen in a 
Trump/Hillary matchup.

It’s the worst case scenario for many of us.

Tomorrow’s caucus vote will tell us more, but I would still be unsure of the 
actual outcome.

I would like to think being a Woman isn’t an issue.
I haven’t personally met any Utahans that have openly opposed a candidate 
because it’s a she.

It’s because she is a Democrat and a Clinton and also because it’s Hillary, lol!

I would take Hillary over Trump to ‘negotiate’ foreign affairs.

I only see pure disaster on Trump making ‘deals’ with foreign countries.

Reverse that and ask any foreigner who they would like to see US president.
I think that swings very heavily in the Hillary direction, right?


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

I'll put up $100... the bet being that Utah will vote Red, regardless of the 
candidate?

Travis

On 3/21/2016 11:00 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
So, are you giving odds?  I have $100.

From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we will never 
support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states will be Red... as 
always.

I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a LONG time... 
let each candidate say what he will do on every subject, and not be associated 
with these "parties" that really don't mean anything anymore. Republicans used 
to believe "this", but now, 20 years later, they now believe "this". The 
parties have no real value or benefit, other than to keep thousands of people 
employed.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP candidate.

Have you been watching the news?

It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

Even if it’s Hilary.

And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, but 
maybe I’m wrong.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has 
voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot like 
Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first page, and 
never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand for.

Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last 40 
years.

Travis
On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative process 
and some military experience.
Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a resume.

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the 
hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year ILEC 
owners.  Have known them for years.
This is what he said after the Trump speech:

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and said 
something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do and say, 
especially someone in the Republican Party."
"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running for 
office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he can 
question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah for 
Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we roll in 
the United States of America."


From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is a 
"lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their entire 
life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for something 
different.

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead of 
giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having them not 
do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

Travis
On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the country.
He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Oye, Gov everything is changing... 
Wat eef I said I like my scones with curry ! 

that'll blow some minds ! 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:09:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> The butter must be applied directly to a warm Scone.
> It melts and soaks in and waterproofs it so the jam and jelly don’t get 
> absorbed
> to make is soggy.
> This will not make me popular with my daughter and her family in Cornwall, but
> sometimes your kids are just plain wrong.
> From: Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:05 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
> LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter, Jam and
> Jelly... in any order
> :)
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

>> Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world...
>> From: Faisal Imtiaz
>> Stay fearful my friend.

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Rory, 

Are you that Naive to think and believe that our Country, the standards bearer 
of the Capitalistic system in the World, behaves in the best interest of the 
Gov and Or the People ? and not in the Best Interest of the Corporate Economic 
Engine that drives everything ? 

Dude, I am floored ! 

(p.s THe folks on the other side of the world are very fast learners... they 
see and they copy... not just tech but behavior too !) 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:35:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> Faisal, your analogy is not logical. Huawei stole the technology to create 
> their
> company. I will not do business with thieves. Who you do business with is up 
> to
> you but it is also a reflection on your character and morality.

> As for your paranoia part, you really don’t know all the facts about their
> strategy, the technological abilities when it comes to back doors and what we
> can and cannot detect. Until you really know what’s happening and what the
> Chinese governmental strategy is concerning world domination, control of the
> infrastructure of its potential enemies, and how Huawei plays into that
> strategy, your conclusion is based on your personal beliefs, not facts. Make 
> no
> mistake, Huawei was created by the Chinese military and is part of a larger
> strategy. To deny that is simply ignorance.

> One other thing that needs to be made clear is that the United States spying 
> was
> never historically done to enable an economic advantage, it was done for
> security reasons. China and Japan sanctioned state sponsored thefts of patents
> and gave it to key industries. I don’t believe Japan is doing that any more 
> but
> in the 70’s and 80’s, they were as bad as China, just ask Catepillar.

> Rory

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 5:31 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> Wow, what can I say, go get your tin foil hat...

> The next thing you will be taking a crap about is that.Mimosa now has a 
> team
> of engineers working out of Turkey...who knows what those damm Moselems are
> putting in thier code, as part of Sharia domination of America.

> Stay fearful my friend.

> :)

> Regards

> Faisal

> Sent from Mobile Device

>  Original message 

> From: Rory Conaway

> Date:03/21/2016 12:44 AM (GMT-05:00)

> To: af@afmug.com

> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> I don’t think the question is whether or not they are a Chinese company, I 
> think
> the question is whether or not Huawei is involved on some level, either
> hardware or software. Besides the fact that they entire company is based on
> stolen property from day 1, the second part of the argument is whether or not
> they are funding or delivering technology to Baicell. Only Patrick Leary can
> answer that. I suggest he step in to clarify this.

> Rory

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 8:09 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> Gotta love these conversations...

> What was the original topic ?

> Ahhh... Baicells a new Mfg. of LTE Products looking to forge entrance in 
> the
> WISP Market Space who is just starting to establish themselves in the US,
> and as such have recruited some of The Most Respected Folks in the Community
> !... Patrick, Rick, Boun.. reminds me of a Dream Team being put together.

> To start throwing mud or imply any FUD, just because they are a Chinese 
> Company
> would be a mistake I took a look at the Bio of the founders, and the fact
> that their founder are not some corporate yo yo's looking to make some $$, but
> one of serious engineering backgrounds actively participating in the LTE
> Standards committee (Global entity).. says a lot to me...

> I am looking forward to some interesting and exciting times in the WISP 
> futures
> ahead ! Time to grow up into serious operators !

> :)

> Best of Luck Everyone !

> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 8:18:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>> Ah okay. Had no idea such a thing existed.

>> On Mar 20, 2016 7:16 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote:

>> WIC, NM, PA, etc. Plug in card for a modular router.

>> From: Josh Reynolds

>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 7:08 PM

>> To: af@afmug.com

>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

>> Define module?

>> On Mar 20, 2016 6:56 PM, "Ken Hohhof" 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Ken Hohhof]

People tend to have an incorrect view of Mormons, lumping them with all other 
“conservatives”.  But remember many Mormons go on missions to other countries, 
leading to more nuanced views than your typical ‘Merican.  Historically they 
experienced religious persecution so they tend not to like discrimination on 
the basis of religion.  And while women may not participate equally in church 
leadership, they are family oriented and don’t like to see women attacked or 
treated like Trump does.  They have a history of getting along with others and 
solving their own problems, I’m not sure this whole blame the immigrants thing 
has that much appeal in Utah.  I’m not saying the LDS church and its followers 
have no faults, but I can see where Trump is not a good fit at all.


From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP candidate.

 

Have you been watching the news?

 

It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

 

Even if it’s Hilary. 

 

And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, but 
maybe I’m wrong.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has 
voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot like 
Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first page, and 
never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand for.

Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last 40 
years.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?  

   

  IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.  

  Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a resume.  

   

  Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the 
hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth. 

   

  I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year ILEC 
owners.  Have known them for years.  

  This is what he said after the Trump speech:

   

  "I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and 
said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do and 
say, especially someone in the Republican Party."

  "Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running for 
office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he can 
question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah for 
Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we roll in 
the United States of America."

   

   

  From: Travis Johnson 

  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is a 
"lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their entire 
life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for something 
different. 

  It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead of 
giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having them not 
do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

  Travis

  On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the 
country.

He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

 

He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t care 
if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot act like 
that if you want to represent me and my interests.  

 

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM

To: Animal Farm 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad for 
US. 

On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.  

   

  And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter 
Olympics here and really saved the day.

  Kinda a favorite son.

   

  From: Kurt Fankhauser 

  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement

[Sterling Jacobson]

What exactly would this be for?

We have worked an agreement with the city for franchise rights to build in PUE.

We have another template agreement for the HOA board to sign for easement 
access on their property.

There should probably be an agreement for easement/ROW into private property as 
well, though we haven’t gone that far yet when installing on personal property 
for individual hookup.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Installation Agreement

Anyone have one of these they would be able to share?  I thought Chuck Hogg 
posted one a while back, but I can't seem to find it.  Thanks.

Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Chuck McCown]

The butter must be applied directly to a warm Scone.  
It melts and soaks in and waterproofs it so the jam and jelly don’t get 
absorbed to make is soggy. 

This will not make me popular with my daughter and her family in Cornwall, but 
sometimes your kids are just plain wrong.  

From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter, Jam and 
Jelly... in any order

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

  Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world...

  From: Faisal Imtiaz
  Stay fearful my friend.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Travis Johnson]

I'll put up $100... the bet being that Utah will vote Red, regardless of 
the candidate?


Travis


On 3/21/2016 11:00 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

So, are you giving odds?  I have $100.
*From:* Travis Johnson 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:58 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we 
will never support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states 
will be Red... as always.


I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a 
LONG time... let each candidate say what he will do on every subject, 
and not be associated with these "parties" that really don't mean 
anything anymore. Republicans used to believe "this", but now, 20 
years later, they now believe "this". The parties have no real value 
or benefit, other than to keep thousands of people employed.


Travis


On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP 
candidate.


Have you been watching the news?

It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for 
Trump.


Even if it’s Hilary.

And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman 
president, but maybe I’m wrong.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet 
Utah has voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I 
think it's a lot like Idaho, that many people check the first 
"Republican" box on the first page, and never turn the book to even 
see who that is or what they even stand for.


Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote 
for Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% 
Mormon, where they don't allow women to hold any real leadership 
positions?


Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the 
last 40 years.


Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto
insurance industry or perhaps a retired school principal?

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the
legislative process and some military experience.

Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on
a resume.

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some
of the hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100
year ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.

This is what he said after the Trump speech:

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did
something and said something that I never thought I'd see a
candidate for president do and say, especially someone in the
Republican Party."

"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person
running for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you
question his politics, he can question your religion. I have a
message for the 3 million people in Utah for Mr. Donald Trump:
That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we roll in the
United States of America."

*From:*Travis Johnson 

*Sent:*Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else
running is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has
wanted to be, their entire life. Nobody else is going to make any
REAL changes. It's time for something different.

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY
think... instead of giving lip service for six months before the
election, and then having them not do anything that they said. At
least Trump is saying what he thinks.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good
for the country.

He may be a super skilled negotiator. He may be lots of things.

He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social
graces.  I don’t care if he was running for the local chamber
of commerce, you just cannot act like that if you want to
represent me and my interests.

*From:*Jaime Solorza 

*Sent:*Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM

*To:*Animal Farm 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think
Trump is bad for US.

On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in
Utah.

And Romney is 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Faisal Imtiaz]

LOL !... and just for the record.. I like my scones with Heavy Butter, Jam and 
Jelly... in any order 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:23:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> Faisal Imtiaz, the most interesting WISP in the world...
> From: Faisal Imtiaz
> Stay fearful my friend.

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

[Faisal Imtiaz]

>>> being suspicious of a company because they have a possible association with 
>>> a known thief 

I thought this was collectively covered and agreed that they ALL are 
thieves...so why pick on only one of them ? 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Jason McKemie" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 9:48:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

> Being suspicious of a company because they have a possible association with a
> known thief is very different from blind suspicion based on religion.

> On Monday, March 21, 2016, Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > wrote:

>> Wow, what can I say, go get your tin foil hat...

>> The next thing you will be taking a crap about is that.Mimosa now has a 
>> team
>> of engineers working out of Turkey...who knows what those damm Moselems are
>> putting in thier code, as part of Sharia domination of America.

>> Stay fearful my friend.

>> :)

>> Regards
>> Faisal

>> Sent from Mobile Device

>>  Original message 
>> From: Rory Conaway
>> Date:03/21/2016 12:44 AM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

>> I don’t think the question is whether or not they are a Chinese company, I 
>> think
>> the question is whether or not Huawei is involved on some level, either
>> hardware or software. Besides the fact that they entire company is based on
>> stolen property from day 1, the second part of the argument is whether or not
>> they are funding or delivering technology to Baicell. Only Patrick Leary can
>> answer that. I suggest he step in to clarify this.

>> Rory

>> From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 8:09 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

>> Gotta love these conversations...

>> What was the original topic ?

>> Ahhh... Baicells a new Mfg. of LTE Products looking to forge entrance in 
>> the
>> WISP Market Space who is just starting to establish themselves in the US,
>> and as such have recruited some of The Most Respected Folks in the Community
>> !... Patrick, Rick, Boun.. reminds me of a Dream Team being put together.

>> To start throwing mud or imply any FUD, just because they are a Chinese 
>> Company
>> would be a mistake I took a look at the Bio of the founders, and the fact
>> that their founder are not some corporate yo yo's looking to make some $$, 
>> but
>> one of serious engineering backgrounds actively participating in the LTE
>> Standards committee (Global entity).. says a lot to me...

>> I am looking forward to some interesting and exciting times in the WISP 
>> futures
>> ahead ! Time to grow up into serious operators !

>> :)

>> Best of Luck Everyone !

>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com >
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 8:18:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview
>>> Ah okay. Had no idea such a thing existed.

>>> On Mar 20, 2016 7:16 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote:

>>> WIC, NM, PA, etc. Plug in card for a modular router.

>>> From: Josh Reynolds

>>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 7:08 PM

>>> To: af@afmug.com

>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

>>> Define module?

>>> On Mar 20, 2016 6:56 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote:

>>> I’m not sure I equate “previously owned” with “grey market”. And if Cisco 
>>> had a
>>> problem with it, they didn’t have to sell you a Smartnet contract for the 
>>> used
>>> gear. Pretty good actually selling a full year HW/SW maintenance contract 
>>> just
>>> so you can upgrade the SW.

>>> What I won’t do is buy the “new” Cisco modules from Hong Kong that are 
>>> probably
>>> counterfeit. Even if they are made from the same parts in the same factory.

>>> From: Bruce Robertson

>>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 5:23 PM

>>> To: af@afmug.com

>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

>>> I *never* *ever* did that...

>>> On 03/20/2016 02:17 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

 Funny, how many of us bought the cheapest Cisco thing we could find and
 registered it so we could get fresh software for the grey market more 
 expensive
 routers we deployed hmmm

 From: Eric Kuhnke

 Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 2:50 PM

 To: af@afmug.com

 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells Interview

 I really don't see the point of trying to prevent shipments of
 telecom/IT/networking equipment to Iran, or punishing anybody for selling
 telecom/IT/networking gear to Iran:

 1) If people in Iran really want the stuff they will simply 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Chuck McCown]

So, are you giving odds?  I have $100.  

From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we will never 
support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states will be Red... as 
always.

I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a LONG time... 
let each candidate say what he will do on every subject, and not be associated 
with these "parties" that really don't mean anything anymore. Republicans used 
to believe "this", but now, 20 years later, they now believe "this". The 
parties have no real value or benefit, other than to keep thousands of people 
employed.

Travis



On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

  Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP 
candidate.

   

  Have you been watching the news?

   

  It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

   

  Even if it’s Hilary. 

   

  And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, but 
maybe I’m wrong.

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has 
voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot like 
Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first page, and 
never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand for.

  Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

  Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last 40 
years.

  Travis

  On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?  

 

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.  

Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a resume.  

 

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the 
hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth. 

 

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year ILEC 
owners.  Have known them for years.  

This is what he said after the Trump speech:

 

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and 
said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do and 
say, especially someone in the Republican Party."

"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running for 
office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he can 
question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah for 
Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we roll in 
the United States of America."

 

 

From: Travis Johnson 

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is 
a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their 
entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for 
something different. 

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead 
of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having them 
not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the 
country.

  He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

   

  He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t 
care if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot act 
like that if you want to represent me and my interests.  

   

  From: Jaime Solorza 

  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM

  To: Animal Farm 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad 
for US. 

  On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.  

 

And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter 
Olympics here and really saved the day.

Kinda a favorite son.

 

From: Kurt Fankhauser 

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Chuck McCown]

I was doing an over-the-top mash up of ISIS and refugees.  He said not to allow 
Muslims into the country.  He said he would kill the families of ISIS.  Like I 
said, I was being hyperbolic.  Just like him.  

ISIS is like cancer.  The kind that spreads when you cut it out.  Kill one and 
make 10 more.  The immune systems of the Islamic nations needs to be fortified 
to do the work from within.  Just like the current batch of immunotherapies, 
the are proving very effective against cancer.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

you disappoint me chuck. he never said muslims, he said isis, kind of a slight 
difference there. You took the spoon and drank the koolaid with it, might as 
well just drink from the cup :-) 

And seriously, with isis (which is kind of a family affair) you realistically 
do need to eliminate three generations to even begin to address the issue. That 
applies to anyone though who believes in what they teach their offspring, that 
was taught to them by their parents.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Trump would be slightly more palatable if he stuck to his positions.  He will 
say something like “kill all Muslims and their familes”  one week and the next 
transition to “waterboard all Muslims”, then “soften” it due to his extreme 
“flexibility” to “we need skilled Muslims”...

  Ok, being hyperbolic myself here but not too far off the mark on Isis, Syrian 
refugees, the wall and H1B.  A Trump apologist might suggest that this proves 
he can learn and pivot.  I think he is the ultimate lying politician.  He just 
does not have the experience with the media tracking every word he has ever 
said or will say.  The others are a bit more chary and street-wise.  

  I am not sure an outsider in Washington has a chance of being effective at 
anything.  At least not for the first few years.  Especially for a president.  
Like saying a walk on (having never played - even in high school) in the NFL 
can play QB and score in the super bowl.  It will never happen.  

  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:38 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

  I would say that Trump is about the last person that I would vote for 
anything. Starting at dog catcher. There are a few others I would put into the 
same category. Cruz & Carson would be on the list as "not fit for dog catcher".


bp


On 3/21/2016 9:30 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has 
voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot like 
Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first page, and 
never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand for.

Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last 
40 years.

Travis


On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?  

  IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.  
  Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a 
resume.  

  Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the 
hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth. 

  I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year 
ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.  
  This is what he said after the Trump speech:

  "I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and 
said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do and 
say, especially someone in the Republican Party."
  "Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running 
for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he 
can question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah 
for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we 
roll in the United States of America."


  From: Travis Johnson 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

  It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running 
is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their 
entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for 
something different. 

  It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... 
instead of giving lip service for six months before the 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Travis Johnson]

Utah (and Idaho too) will vote Republican. They can talk and say "we 
will never support Trump"... but at the end of the day, both states will 
be Red... as always.


I personally have wanted to get rid of the political parties for a LONG 
time... let each candidate say what he will do on every subject, and not 
be associated with these "parties" that really don't mean anything 
anymore. Republicans used to believe "this", but now, 20 years later, 
they now believe "this". The parties have no real value or benefit, 
other than to keep thousands of people employed.


Travis


On 3/21/2016 10:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP 
candidate.


Have you been watching the news?

It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

Even if it’s Hilary.

And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, 
but maybe I’m wrong.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah 
has voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think 
it's a lot like Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" 
box on the first page, and never turn the book to even see who that is 
or what they even stand for.


Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote 
for Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% 
Mormon, where they don't allow women to hold any real leadership 
positions?


Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the 
last 40 years.


Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto
insurance industry or perhaps a retired school principal?

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the
legislative process and some military experience.

Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a
resume.

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some
of the hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100
year ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.

This is what he said after the Trump speech:

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did
something and said something that I never thought I'd see a
candidate for president do and say, especially someone in the
Republican Party."

"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person
running for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you
question his politics, he can question your religion. I have a
message for the 3 million people in Utah for Mr. Donald Trump:
That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we roll in the
United States of America."

*From:*Travis Johnson 

*Sent:*Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else
running is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has
wanted to be, their entire life. Nobody else is going to make any
REAL changes. It's time for something different.

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think...
instead of giving lip service for six months before the election,
and then having them not do anything that they said. At least
Trump is saying what he thinks.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good
for the country.

He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces. 
I don’t care if he was running for the local chamber of

commerce, you just cannot act like that if you want to
represent me and my interests.

*From:*Jaime Solorza 

*Sent:*Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM

*To:*Animal Farm 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think
Trump is bad for US.

On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in
Utah.

And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned
around the winter Olympics here and really saved the day.

Kinda a favorite son.

*From:*Kurt Fankhauser 

*Sent:*Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

not calling you a dolt, btw

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:54 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> you disappoint me chuck. he never said muslims, he said isis, kind of a
> slight difference there. You took the spoon and drank the koolaid with it,
> might as well just drink from the cup :-)
>
> And seriously, with isis (which is kind of a family affair) you
> realistically do need to eliminate three generations to even begin to
> address the issue. That applies to anyone though who believes in what they
> teach their offspring, that was taught to them by their parents.
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Trump would be slightly more palatable if he stuck to his positions.  He
>> will say something like “kill all Muslims and their familes”  one week and
>> the next transition to “waterboard all Muslims”, then “soften” it due to
>> his extreme “flexibility” to “we need skilled Muslims”...
>>
>> Ok, being hyperbolic myself here but not too far off the mark on Isis,
>> Syrian refugees, the wall and H1B.  A Trump apologist might suggest that
>> this proves he can learn and pivot.  I think he is the ultimate lying
>> politician.  He just does not have the experience with the media tracking
>> every word he has ever said or will say.  The others are a bit more chary
>> and street-wise.
>>
>> I am not sure an outsider in Washington has a chance of being effective
>> at anything.  At least not for the first few years.  Especially for a
>> president.  Like saying a walk on (having never played - even in high
>> school) in the NFL can play QB and score in the super bowl.  It will never
>> happen.
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:38 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>>
>> I would say that Trump is about the last person that I would vote for
>> anything. Starting at dog catcher. There are a few others I would put into
>> the same category. Cruz & Carson would be on the list as "not fit for dog
>> catcher".
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/21/2016 9:30 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>> It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah
>> has voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a
>> lot like Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the
>> first page, and never turn the book to even see who that is or what they
>> even stand for.
>>
>> Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for
>> Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where
>> they don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?
>>
>> Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the
>> last 40 years.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance
>> industry or perhaps a retired school principal?
>>
>> IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative
>> process and some military experience.
>> Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a
>> resume.
>>
>> Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the
>> hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.
>>
>> I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year
>> ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.
>> This is what he said after the Trump speech:
>>
>> "I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and
>> said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do
>> and say, especially someone in the Republican Party."
>> "Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running
>> for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics,
>> he can question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in
>> Utah for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not
>> how we roll in the United States of America."
>>
>>
>> *From:* Travis Johnson 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>>
>> It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running
>> is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be,
>> their entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time
>> for something different.
>>
>> It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think...
>> instead of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then
>> having them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what
>> he thinks.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the
>> country.
>> He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.
>>
>> He looks like a megalomaniac bully 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

you disappoint me chuck. he never said muslims, he said isis, kind of a
slight difference there. You took the spoon and drank the koolaid with it,
might as well just drink from the cup :-)

And seriously, with isis (which is kind of a family affair) you
realistically do need to eliminate three generations to even begin to
address the issue. That applies to anyone though who believes in what they
teach their offspring, that was taught to them by their parents.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Trump would be slightly more palatable if he stuck to his positions.  He
> will say something like “kill all Muslims and their familes”  one week and
> the next transition to “waterboard all Muslims”, then “soften” it due to
> his extreme “flexibility” to “we need skilled Muslims”...
>
> Ok, being hyperbolic myself here but not too far off the mark on Isis,
> Syrian refugees, the wall and H1B.  A Trump apologist might suggest that
> this proves he can learn and pivot.  I think he is the ultimate lying
> politician.  He just does not have the experience with the media tracking
> every word he has ever said or will say.  The others are a bit more chary
> and street-wise.
>
> I am not sure an outsider in Washington has a chance of being effective at
> anything.  At least not for the first few years.  Especially for a
> president.  Like saying a walk on (having never played - even in high
> school) in the NFL can play QB and score in the super bowl.  It will never
> happen.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:38 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>
> I would say that Trump is about the last person that I would vote for
> anything. Starting at dog catcher. There are a few others I would put into
> the same category. Cruz & Carson would be on the list as "not fit for dog
> catcher".
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/21/2016 9:30 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has
> voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot
> like Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first
> page, and never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even
> stand for.
>
> Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for
> Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where
> they don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?
>
> Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last
> 40 years.
>
> Travis
>
> On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance
> industry or perhaps a retired school principal?
>
> IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative
> process and some military experience.
> Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a
> resume.
>
> Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the
> hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.
>
> I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year
> ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.
> This is what he said after the Trump speech:
>
> "I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and
> said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do
> and say, especially someone in the Republican Party."
> "Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running for
> office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he
> can question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in
> Utah for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not
> how we roll in the United States of America."
>
>
> *From:* Travis Johnson 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>
> It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is
> a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their
> entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for
> something different.
>
> It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead
> of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having
> them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he
> thinks.
>
> Travis
>
> On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the
> country.
> He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.
>
> He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t
> care if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot
> act like that if you want to represent me and my interests.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
> *Sent:* 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Chuck McCown]

Unfortunately  you are most likely right about one thing.  We will probably get 
to observe him in the general election.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Yeah, it is. Youll see the formal representation in the general, this component 
is about getting the pleebs stirring. He is however in the background brokering 
political alliances and "deals". Its a poker game, and hes held his cards close 
to his chest for the primary. Wait until the general, I think youll see a much 
more professional presentation.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

  Just because change is what you want doesn't mean ANY change is good. His 
entire campaign seems like a stage act to me. I don't see any reason to think 
that he has honest plans to do anything positive for this country.

  On Monday, March 21, 2016, Travis Johnson  wrote:

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is 
a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their 
entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for 
something different. 

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead 
of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having them 
not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

Travis


On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the 
country.
  He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

  He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t 
care if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot act 
like that if you want to represent me and my interests.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

  Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad 
for US. 

  On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.  

And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter 
Olympics here and really saved the day.
Kinda a favorite son.

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

What happened on Friday?

Sent from my iPhone 

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


  Latest polls in Utah show:
  Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.  
  (Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own 
dick off on Friday).

  Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.  
  No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...  

  Gotta love Utah!






-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

yeah, and everybody is moving to canada too. what people say they will do,
and what they actually do arent even part of the same sport


On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP
> candidate.
>
>
>
> Have you been watching the news?
>
>
>
> It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.
>
>
>
> Even if it’s Hilary.
>
>
>
> And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, but
> maybe I’m wrong.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>
>
>
> It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has
> voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot
> like Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first
> page, and never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even
> stand for.
>
> Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for
> Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where
> they don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?
>
> Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last
> 40 years.
>
> Travis
>
> On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance
> industry or perhaps a retired school principal?
>
>
>
> IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative
> process and some military experience.
>
> Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a
> resume.
>
>
>
> Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the
> hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.
>
>
>
> I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year
> ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.
>
> This is what he said after the Trump speech:
>
>
>
> "I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and
> said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do
> and say, especially someone in the Republican Party."
>
> "Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running for
> office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he
> can question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in
> Utah for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not
> how we roll in the United States of America."
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Travis Johnson 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>
>
>
> It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is
> a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their
> entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for
> something different.
>
> It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead
> of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having
> them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he
> thinks.
>
> Travis
>
> On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the
> country.
>
> He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.
>
>
>
> He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t
> care if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot
> act like that if you want to represent me and my interests.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM
>
> *To:* Animal Farm 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>
>
>
> Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad for
> US.
>
> On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.
>
>
>
> And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter
> Olympics here and really saved the day.
>
> Kinda a favorite son.
>
>
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>
>
>
> What happened on Friday?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
>
> Wavelinc Communications
>
> P.O. Box 126
>
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>
> http://www.wavelinc.com
>
> tel. 419-562-6405
>
> fax. 419-617-0110
>
>
> On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Latest polls in Utah show:
>
> Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.
>
> (Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own dick off
> on Friday).
>
>
>
> Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.
>
> No matter if it is 

Re: [AFMUG] Hotspots and Game Systems

[Dennis Burgess]

Lots of ways :)  well a few..  but no, there are other options :) 

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 6:37 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Hotspots and Game Systems

For those of you doing hotels, or anything with a Hotspot portal page.  
How do you handle people who want to hook up gaming systems? From what I 
understand, you can't open a browser unless it can connect to the  
network, so it will never be able to click the 'accept' button on the proxied 
webpage.  Do you manually enter in IP Addresses, or bypass MAC's, or just 
outlaw them alltogether?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Jason McKemie]

Odd, that's the same reason that I think Trump is currently doing well.

On Monday, March 21, 2016, That One Guy /sarcasm 
wrote:

> Thats the deal with trump, they take whatever he says, no matter how he
> says it, and try to spin it in a negative factor. This is only possible
> because the majority of the US are dolts who accept the spoon at feeding
> time without any question. Its sad when you really think about how ignorant
> the population at large is. Facebook and Twitter are the downfall of the US.
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
>
>> I really don’t want to defend Trump, but I heard the speech on TV, and it
>> was clear to me he was saying Romney isn’t too bright, are you sure he’s a
>> Mormon?  As in you Mormons are smart, this guy isn’t (because he attacked
>> me), are you sure he’s one of you?
>>
>> So just a standard Trump attack, not really questioning his faith.  Kind
>> of a joke gone wrong.
>>
>> But attacking a favorite son on his home turf maybe speaks to Trump not
>> being very well informed.  Or he doesn’t give a crap because he knows he
>> won’t win Utah anyway.  But then why go there?
>>
>> Kind of interesting, 60 Minutes last night had an interview with the new
>> President of Argentina who is mopping up after 8 ruinous years of a
>> “populist”, albeit a left wing populist.  (I’m not sure the Peronistas fit
>> neatly into our left/right wing categories.)  And Presidente Macri is a
>> wealthy former real estate developer on his 3rd marriage, but the
>> comparison may end there.
>> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-argentina-president-mauricio-macri/
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:06 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>>
>> Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.
>>
>> And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter
>> Olympics here and really saved the day.
>> Kinda a favorite son.
>>
>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
>> 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>>
>> What happened on Friday?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> Wavelinc Communications
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> http://www.wavelinc.com
>> tel. 419-562-6405
>> fax. 419-617-0110
>>
>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown > > wrote:
>>
>> Latest polls in Utah show:
>> Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.
>> (Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own dick
>> off on Friday).
>>
>> Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.
>> No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...
>>
>> Gotta love Utah!
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Chuck McCown]

I don’t know if I could command my hands to press the Hillary button.   My DNA 
will rebel.
But I sure will not be voting Trump.  I may just skip the vote.  

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP candidate.

 

Have you been watching the news?

 

It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

 

Even if it’s Hilary. 

 

And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, but 
maybe I’m wrong.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has 
voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot like 
Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first page, and 
never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand for.

Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last 40 
years.

Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?  

   

  IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.  

  Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a resume.  

   

  Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the 
hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth. 

   

  I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year ILEC 
owners.  Have known them for years.  

  This is what he said after the Trump speech:

   

  "I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and 
said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do and 
say, especially someone in the Republican Party."

  "Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running for 
office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he can 
question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah for 
Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we roll in 
the United States of America."

   

   

  From: Travis Johnson 

  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is a 
"lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their entire 
life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for something 
different. 

  It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead of 
giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having them not 
do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

  Travis

  On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the 
country.

He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

 

He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t care 
if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot act like 
that if you want to represent me and my interests.  

 

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM

To: Animal Farm 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

 

Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad for 
US. 

On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.  

   

  And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter 
Olympics here and really saved the day.

  Kinda a favorite son.

   

  From: Kurt Fankhauser 

  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

   

  What happened on Friday?

  Sent from my iPhone 

   

  Kurt Fankhauser

  Wavelinc Communications

  P.O. Box 126

  Bucyrus, OH 44820

  http://www.wavelinc.com

  tel. 419-562-6405

  fax. 419-617-0110


  On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Latest polls in Utah show:

Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.  

(Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own dick 
off on Friday).

 

Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.  

No matter if it is 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Yeah, it is. Youll see the formal representation in the general, this
component is about getting the pleebs stirring. He is however in the
background brokering political alliances and "deals". Its a poker game, and
hes held his cards close to his chest for the primary. Wait until the
general, I think youll see a much more professional presentation.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Just because change is what you want doesn't mean ANY change is good. His
> entire campaign seems like a stage act to me. I don't see any reason to
> think that he has honest plans to do anything positive for this country.
>
> On Monday, March 21, 2016, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running
>> is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be,
>> their entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time
>> for something different.
>>
>> It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think...
>> instead of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then
>> having them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what
>> he thinks.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the
>> country.
>> He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.
>>
>> He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t
>> care if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot
>> act like that if you want to represent me and my interests.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>>
>>
>> Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad
>> for US.
>> On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.
>>>
>>> And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter
>>> Olympics here and really saved the day.
>>> Kinda a favorite son.
>>>
>>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>>>
>>> What happened on Friday?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> Kurt Fankhauser
>>> Wavelinc Communications
>>> P.O. Box 126
>>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>>> http://www.wavelinc.com
>>> tel. 419-562-6405
>>> fax. 419-617-0110
>>>
>>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> Latest polls in Utah show:
>>> Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.
>>> (Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own dick
>>> off on Friday).
>>>
>>> Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.
>>> No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...
>>>
>>> Gotta love Utah!
>>>
>>>
>>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Chuck McCown]

Trump would be slightly more palatable if he stuck to his positions.  He will 
say something like “kill all Muslims and their familes”  one week and the next 
transition to “waterboard all Muslims”, then “soften” it due to his extreme 
“flexibility” to “we need skilled Muslims”...

Ok, being hyperbolic myself here but not too far off the mark on Isis, Syrian 
refugees, the wall and H1B.  A Trump apologist might suggest that this proves 
he can learn and pivot.  I think he is the ultimate lying politician.  He just 
does not have the experience with the media tracking every word he has ever 
said or will say.  The others are a bit more chary and street-wise.  

I am not sure an outsider in Washington has a chance of being effective at 
anything.  At least not for the first few years.  Especially for a president.  
Like saying a walk on (having never played - even in high school) in the NFL 
can play QB and score in the super bowl.  It will never happen.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

I would say that Trump is about the last person that I would vote for anything. 
Starting at dog catcher. There are a few others I would put into the same 
category. Cruz & Carson would be on the list as "not fit for dog catcher".


bp


On 3/21/2016 9:30 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

  It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has 
voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot like 
Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first page, and 
never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand for.

  Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

  Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last 40 
years.

  Travis


  On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?  

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.  
Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a resume.  

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the 
hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth. 

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year ILEC 
owners.  Have known them for years.  
This is what he said after the Trump speech:

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and 
said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do and 
say, especially someone in the Republican Party."
"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running for 
office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he can 
question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah for 
Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we roll in 
the United States of America."


From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is 
a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their 
entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for 
something different. 

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead 
of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having them 
not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

Travis


On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the 
country.
  He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

  He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t 
care if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot act 
like that if you want to represent me and my interests.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

  Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad 
for US. 

  On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.  

And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter 
Olympics here and really saved the day.
Kinda a favorite son.

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

What 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Thats the deal with trump, they take whatever he says, no matter how he
says it, and try to spin it in a negative factor. This is only possible
because the majority of the US are dolts who accept the spoon at feeding
time without any question. Its sad when you really think about how ignorant
the population at large is. Facebook and Twitter are the downfall of the US.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I really don’t want to defend Trump, but I heard the speech on TV, and it
> was clear to me he was saying Romney isn’t too bright, are you sure he’s a
> Mormon?  As in you Mormons are smart, this guy isn’t (because he attacked
> me), are you sure he’s one of you?
>
> So just a standard Trump attack, not really questioning his faith.  Kind
> of a joke gone wrong.
>
> But attacking a favorite son on his home turf maybe speaks to Trump not
> being very well informed.  Or he doesn’t give a crap because he knows he
> won’t win Utah anyway.  But then why go there?
>
> Kind of interesting, 60 Minutes last night had an interview with the new
> President of Argentina who is mopping up after 8 ruinous years of a
> “populist”, albeit a left wing populist.  (I’m not sure the Peronistas fit
> neatly into our left/right wing categories.)  And Presidente Macri is a
> wealthy former real estate developer on his 3rd marriage, but the
> comparison may end there.
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-argentina-president-mauricio-macri/
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:06 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>
> Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.
>
> And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter
> Olympics here and really saved the day.
> Kinda a favorite son.
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>
> What happened on Friday?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> Wavelinc Communications
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> http://www.wavelinc.com
> tel. 419-562-6405
> fax. 419-617-0110
>
> On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Latest polls in Utah show:
> Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.
> (Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own dick off
> on Friday).
>
> Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.
> No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...
>
> Gotta love Utah!
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Sterling Jacobson]

Polls already show Utah switching to Democratic vote if Trump is GOP candidate.

Have you been watching the news?

It’s a big deal, and I believe they are right, Utah won’t stand for Trump.

Even if it’s Hilary.

And I think Utah in general would be just fine with a Woman president, but 
maybe I’m wrong.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah has 
voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's a lot like 
Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on the first page, and 
never turn the book to even see who that is or what they even stand for.

Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote for 
Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, where they 
don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?

Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the last 40 
years.

Travis
On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto insurance 
industry or perhaps a retired school principal?

IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative process 
and some military experience.
Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a resume.

Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of the 
hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.

I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year ILEC 
owners.  Have known them for years.
This is what he said after the Trump speech:

"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something and said 
something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for president do and say, 
especially someone in the Republican Party."
"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running for 
office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his politics, he can 
question your religion. I have a message for the 3 million people in Utah for 
Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in Utah, and that's not how we roll in 
the United States of America."


From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is a 
"lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their entire 
life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for something 
different.

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead of 
giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having them not 
do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

Travis
On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the country.
He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t care if 
he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot act like that 
if you want to represent me and my interests.

From: Jaime Solorza
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah


Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad for US.
On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown" 
> wrote:
Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.

And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter Olympics 
here and really saved the day.
Kinda a favorite son.

From: Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

What happened on Friday?

Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
Latest polls in Utah show:
Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.
(Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own dick off on 
Friday).

Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.
No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...

Gotta love Utah!

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Ken Hohhof]

> At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

Or he is saying what he thinks his audience wants to hear.  If you go back to 
before he decided to run for office and started the Obama birther thing, I 
don’t see examples of Trump saying these things and taking these positions.  He 
was actually a fairly genial, well mannered guy, not hating on anybody.  What 
evidence do you have that what he says now is what he really believes?  Rather 
than just playing to the crowd?

If your criterion is someone who says what he really thinks, and wants to make 
real changes, shouldn’t you be a Bernie supporter?  You may not like what he 
thinks, but does anybody doubt that he really does think that?

BTW, Hillary’s attack line on Trump at the AIPAC conference this morning was 
he’s neutral on Israel one day, pro Israel the next, “everything’s negotiable”. 
 We’ll probably hear that line a lot.  Isn’t Trump always just negotiating a 
deal?


From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is a 
"lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their entire 
life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for something 
different. 

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead of 
giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having them not 
do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

Travis


On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the country.
  He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

  He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t care 
if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot act like 
that if you want to represent me and my interests.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

  Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad for 
US. 

  On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.  

And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter 
Olympics here and really saved the day.
Kinda a favorite son.

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

What happened on Friday?

Sent from my iPhone 

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


  Latest polls in Utah show:
  Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.  
  (Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own dick 
off on Friday).

  Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.  
  No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...  

  Gotta love Utah!

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Sean Heskett]

I hear that Obama guy has some change...maybe he'll have some spare change
for y'all when he's done in office ;-)

-Sean

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 10:01 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is
> a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their
> entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for
> something different.
>
> It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead
> of giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having
> them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he
> thinks.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the
> country.
> He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.
>
> He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t
> care if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot
> act like that if you want to represent me and my interests.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>
>
> Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad for
> US.
> On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.
>>
>> And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter
>> Olympics here and really saved the day.
>> Kinda a favorite son.
>>
>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
>>
>> What happened on Friday?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> Wavelinc Communications
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> http://www.wavelinc.com
>> tel. 419-562-6405
>> fax. 419-617-0110
>>
>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown < 
>> ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>> Latest polls in Utah show:
>> Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.
>> (Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own dick
>> off on Friday).
>>
>> Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.
>> No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...
>>
>> Gotta love Utah!
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Bill Prince]

I would say that Trump is about the last person that I would vote for 
anything. Starting at dog catcher. There are a few others I would put 
into the same category. Cruz & Carson would be on the list as "not fit 
for dog catcher".


bp


On 3/21/2016 9:30 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah 
has voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think 
it's a lot like Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" 
box on the first page, and never turn the book to even see who that is 
or what they even stand for.


Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote 
for Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% 
Mormon, where they don't allow women to hold any real leadership 
positions?


Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the 
last 40 years.


Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto 
insurance industry or perhaps a retired school principal?
IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the 
legislative process and some military experience.
Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a 
resume.
Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of 
the hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.
I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 
year ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.

This is what he said after the Trump speech:
"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something 
and said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for 
president do and say, especially someone in the Republican Party."
"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person 
running for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question 
his politics, he can question your religion. I have a message for the 
3 million people in Utah for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll 
in Utah, and that's not how we roll in the United States of America."

*From:* Travis Johnson 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else 
running is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has 
wanted to be, their entire life. Nobody else is going to make any 
REAL changes. It's time for something different.


It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... 
instead of giving lip service for six months before the election, and 
then having them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is 
saying what he thinks.


Travis

On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for 
the country.

He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.
He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I 
don’t care if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you 
just cannot act like that if you want to represent me and my interests.

*From:* Jaime Solorza 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is 
bad for US.


On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Trump questioned Romney's faith. Not something you do in Utah.
And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the
winter Olympics here and really saved the day.
Kinda a favorite son.
*From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
What happened on Friday?

Sent from my iPhone
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405 
fax. 419-617-0110 

On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


Latest polls in Utah show:
Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.
(Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his
own dick off on Friday).
Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.
No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...
Gotta love Utah!

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Sterling Jacobson]

I like the idea of change and someone who can talk reality.

Trump seems like that, but he’s not the candidate I want or will ever vote for 
because of how he represents.

Although Bernie and Cruz both seem to represent change, and seem consistent in 
their track records to some degree, they are both part of the system.

Neither of them, or Hillary, are people I would normally vote for either.

So the bottom line for me isn’t change for change’s sake.

It’s still finding the right person for the job.

I feel the same way with people I hire or contract.
I don’t want a bad fit, and there is a low count of available people that fit 
well at the moment.

I would have thought there would be a better fit/candidate out of the large 
pool of experienced politicians and general American population.

But it really does seem America has a dysfunctional election system and process 
now.

So the best I can do is vote for Cruz and hope he beats both Trump and 
Bernie/Hillary, and on TOP of that fulfills most of his campaign promises (The 
ones I align with most) and isn’t as swayed by lobbyist etc.

What a mess.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else running is a 
"lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has wanted to be, their entire 
life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL changes. It's time for something 
different.

It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... instead of 
giving lip service for six months before the election, and then having them not 
do anything that they said. At least Trump is saying what he thinks.

Travis
On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the country.
He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.

He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I don’t care if 
he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you just cannot act like that 
if you want to represent me and my interests.

From: Jaime Solorza
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah


Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is bad for US.
On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown" 
> wrote:
Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.

And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter Olympics 
here and really saved the day.
Kinda a favorite son.

From: Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

What happened on Friday?

Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
Latest polls in Utah show:
Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.
(Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own dick off on 
Friday).

Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.
No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...

Gotta love Utah!

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Bill Prince]

I saw that interview, and left/right in Argentina does not mean the same 
as here. Quite different.


bp


On 3/21/2016 9:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I really don’t want to defend Trump, but I heard the speech on TV, and 
it was clear to me he was saying Romney isn’t too bright, are you sure 
he’s a Mormon?  As in you Mormons are smart, this guy isn’t (because 
he attacked me), are you sure he’s one of you?
So just a standard Trump attack, not really questioning his faith.  
Kind of a joke gone wrong.
But attacking a favorite son on his home turf maybe speaks to Trump 
not being very well informed.  Or he doesn’t give a crap because he 
knows he won’t win Utah anyway.  But then why go there?
Kind of interesting, 60 Minutes last night had an interview with the 
new President of Argentina who is mopping up after 8 ruinous years of 
a “populist”, albeit a left wing populist.  (I’m not sure the 
Peronistas fit neatly into our left/right wing categories.)  And 
Presidente Macri is a wealthy former real estate developer on his 3rd 
marriage, but the comparison may end there.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-argentina-president-mauricio-macri/
*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:06 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.
And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the winter 
Olympics here and really saved the day.

Kinda a favorite son.
*From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
What happened on Friday?

Sent from my iPhone
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:



Latest polls in Utah show:
Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.
(Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his own 
dick off on Friday).

Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.
No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...
Gotta love Utah!

Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

[Travis Johnson]

It's funny that everyone says "You can't say that and win"... yet Utah 
has voted Republican for the last 10 elections (40 years). I think it's 
a lot like Idaho, that many people check the first "Republican" box on 
the first page, and never turn the book to even see who that is or what 
they even stand for.


Do you really think if Trump wins the nomination that Utah would vote 
for Hillary over Trump? A woman as President, in a state of 50% Mormon, 
where they don't allow women to hold any real leadership positions?


Trump knows he has Utah and Idaho because they have voted Red for the 
last 40 years.


Travis

On 3/21/2016 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Would  you want a new CEO of a WISP to be hired from the auto 
insurance industry or perhaps a retired school principal?
IMO A chief executive should have some experience with the legislative 
process and some military experience.
Foreign policy experience would be something I would look for on a 
resume.
Trump has been saying that he doesn’t really mean or believe some of 
the hyperbolic things that have came out of his mouth.
I know  the Lt. Gov fairly well here in Utah.  His family are 100 year 
ILEC owners.  Have known them for years.

This is what he said after the Trump speech:
"I need to say this, OK, ...and last night Donald Trump did something 
and said something that I never thought I'd see a candidate for 
president do and say, especially someone in the Republican Party."
"Think about that for a second," Cox told the crowd. "A person running 
for office, in our party, thinks it's OK that if you question his 
politics, he can question your religion. I have a message for the 3 
million people in Utah for Mr. Donald Trump: That's not how we roll in 
Utah, and that's not how we roll in the United States of America."

*From:* Travis Johnson 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 10:01 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
It's time for a change... that's the bottom line. Everyone else 
running is a "lifer"... someone that has been in politics or has 
wanted to be, their entire life. Nobody else is going to make any REAL 
changes. It's time for something different.


It's also refreshing to have someone say what they REALLY think... 
instead of giving lip service for six months before the election, and 
then having them not do anything that they said. At least Trump is 
saying what he thinks.


Travis

On 3/21/2016 9:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
He may be super smart and has ideas that really could be good for the 
country.

He may be a super skilled negotiator.  He may be lots of things.
He looks like a megalomaniac bully that has no social graces.  I 
don’t care if he was running for the local chamber of commerce, you 
just cannot act like that if you want to represent me and my interests.

*From:* Jaime Solorza 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 9:20 AM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah

Even some Mennonite folks I spoke with in Cauthemoc think Trump is 
bad for US.


On Mar 21, 2016 9:07 AM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:


Trump questioned Romney's faith.  Not something you do in Utah.
And Romney is a special case.  He came in and turned around the
winter Olympics here and really saved the day.
Kinda a favorite son.
*From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
*Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2016 8:47 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Trump in Utah
What happened on Friday?

Sent from my iPhone
Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405 
fax. 419-617-0110 

On Mar 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


Latest polls in Utah show:
Utah, collectively, votes “anyone but Trump”.
(Things were not looking great for him but he really shot his
own dick off on Friday).
Polls now show, if Trump is the other candidate, he loses.
No matter if it is Hillary, Bernie, Ted...
Gotta love Utah!