Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Susan Palmer]

Gee Dan ... I had to read 20 posts to find the minuscule piece of humor.  I
figured since you took the effort to scold it had to be something really
good.

btw ... Happy Thanksgiving!

Susan

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:52 PM, LJ Longwing  wrote:

> ** 
> Sorry Daniel, I'll try not to let it happen again
> 
> :)
>
>  --
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *Daniel Bloom
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2009 12:50 PM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* ADM: RE: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based
> client)
>
> ** 
>
> You have hijacked a Subject line and started a Friday humour thread with
> it.
> Granted it is a holiday in Canada, but Monday still isn't Friday.
>
> 
>
> . Daniel
>
>  --
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi
> *Sent:* October 12, 2009 2:35 PM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based
> client)
>
>   ** I am so glad it is easy to keep you guys happy..
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 2:32 PM, LJ Longwing wrote:
>
>> ** True...but now it's closed...so if he ever wants to use sarcasm again
>> he needs to re-open the tag.
>>
>>  --
>> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
>> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *Jarl Grøneng
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2009 12:17 PM
>>
>
>
> --
> Patrick Zandi
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

When BMC states that the mid-tier/browser is faster than the user tool, they 
are really assuming FireFox is the browser used, and that the forms are already 
cached in the FireFox cache (in addition of course to being cached in the 
mid-tier).

Well IE 7.0 has issues with DHTML, and there is nothing that BMC can do, until 
the clients upgrade to IE 8 (or start using FireFox instead).

However that blanket statement that the mid-tier 7.5 is faster than teh user 
tool is misleading. Over here in this real life environment, where we have 
separate servers servicing the mid-tiers, load-balancers and such, the User 
tool 7.5 is still faster than mid-tier 7.5/IE 7.0, even with the forms having 
been cached.

May as well deploy Firefox as the new BMC Remedy client, instead of the user 
tool :-)

-Guillaume 


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Lyle Taylor
Sent: Mon 10/12/09 2:45 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser.


That is not the case here.  Once forms have been cached in the mid tier, it is 
generally faster than the user tool for most of what we do.  Some things are 
easier to do in the user tool (because I can go directly to the form I want 
rather than having to navigate to it through various consoles, etc.), but for 
the most part, things come up quicker in the mid tier (if it's already cached).

Lyle

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Rick Cook]

The 7.1 MT tests showed vastly different results for other browsers. I think 
Opera blew the doors off IE or Firefox, and I am not a Mac guy saying that. 

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Lyle Taylor 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:57:09 
To: 
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I'm on IE 7 now and saw pretty much the same thing with IE 6.

Lyle

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**
Lyle,

With which browsers did you test this?

Rick


From: Lyle Taylor 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:45:38 -0600
To: 
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser.


That is not the case here.  Once forms have been cached in the mid tier, it is 
generally faster than the user tool for most of what we do.  Some things are 
easier to do in the user tool (because I can go directly to the form I want 
rather than having to navigate to it through various consoles, etc.), but for 
the most part, things come up quicker in the mid tier (if it's already cached).

Lyle

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Lyle Taylor]

I'm on IE 7 now and saw pretty much the same thing with IE 6.

Lyle

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**
Lyle,

With which browsers did you test this?

Rick


From: Lyle Taylor 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:45:38 -0600
To: 
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser.


That is not the case here.  Once forms have been cached in the mid tier, it is 
generally faster than the user tool for most of what we do.  Some things are 
easier to do in the user tool (because I can go directly to the form I want 
rather than having to navigate to it through various consoles, etc.), but for 
the most part, things come up quicker in the mid tier (if it's already cached).

Lyle

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Definitely is a good question. Seems like BMC needs to ensure that the needs of 
the people in charge of data entry/data maintenance are addressed. Seems to me 
BMC has only focused on the needs of application users, by making the UI much 
better, but there is still, IMO, room for improvement on the data entry/data 
maintenance front for the backend/foundational forms

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Danny Kellett
Sent: Mon 10/12/09 2:46 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 
Good question

 

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of PRUITT, CHRISTOPHER
Sent: 12 October 2009 18:26
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

 

** 

Not sure if anyone has asked this question, so here I go. What about mass
data updates? We perform these on a daily basis. Selecting 100, 1,000,
10,000 records and doing a Modify All. Will this function be available when
the WUT goes away. I have tried this on the current Mid-Tier with no
success.

 

Christopher Pruitt 
Business Consulting III 

HP Enterprises Services
christopher.pru...@hp.com <mailto:mary.jo...@hp.com> 
www.hp.com <http://www.hp.com/>  

HP-logo_chrome-blue_small

 

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[LJ Longwing]

Sorry Daniel, I'll try not to let it happen again

:)

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Bloom
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:50 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: ADM: RE: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based
client)


** 

 
You have hijacked a Subject line and started a Friday humour thread with it.
Granted it is a holiday in Canada, but Monday still isn't Friday.
 

 
. Daniel

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of patrick zandi
Sent: October 12, 2009 2:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


** I am so glad it is easy to keep you guys happy..


On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 2:32 PM, LJ Longwing  wrote:


** 
True...but now it's closed...so if he ever wants to use sarcasm again he
needs to re-open the tag.

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:17 PM 



-- 
Patrick Zandi
_Platinum Sponsor: rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers
Are"_ _Platinum Sponsor: rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the
Answers Are"_ 

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ADM: RE: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Daniel Bloom]

 
You have hijacked a Subject line and started a Friday humour thread with it.
Granted it is a holiday in Canada, but Monday still isn't Friday.
 

 
. Daniel

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of patrick zandi
Sent: October 12, 2009 2:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


** I am so glad it is easy to keep you guys happy..


On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 2:32 PM, LJ Longwing  wrote:


** 
True...but now it's closed...so if he ever wants to use sarcasm again he
needs to re-open the tag.

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:17 PM 



-- 
Patrick Zandi
_Platinum Sponsor: rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Rick Cook]

Lyle, 

With which browsers did you test this?

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Lyle Taylor 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:45:38 
To: 
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser.


That is not the case here.  Once forms have been cached in the mid tier, it is 
generally faster than the user tool for most of what we do.  Some things are 
easier to do in the user tool (because I can go directly to the form I want 
rather than having to navigate to it through various consoles, etc.), but for 
the most part, things come up quicker in the mid tier (if it's already cached).

Lyle

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the 
intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all 
copies of the original message.



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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Danny Kellett]

Good question

 

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of PRUITT, CHRISTOPHER
Sent: 12 October 2009 18:26
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

 

** 

Not sure if anyone has asked this question, so here I go. What about mass
data updates? We perform these on a daily basis. Selecting 100, 1,000,
10,000 records and doing a Modify All. Will this function be available when
the WUT goes away. I have tried this on the current Mid-Tier with no
success.

 

Christopher Pruitt 
Business Consulting III 

HP Enterprises Services
christopher.pru...@hp.com <mailto:mary.jo...@hp.com> 
www.hp.com <http://www.hp.com/>  

HP-logo_chrome-blue_small

 

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Lyle Taylor]

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser.


That is not the case here.  Once forms have been cached in the mid tier, it is 
generally faster than the user tool for most of what we do.  Some things are 
easier to do in the user tool (because I can go directly to the form I want 
rather than having to navigate to it through various consoles, etc.), but for 
the most part, things come up quicker in the mid tier (if it's already cached).

Lyle

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[patrick zandi]

I am so glad it is easy to keep you guys happy..

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 2:32 PM, LJ Longwing  wrote:

> ** True...but now it's closed...so if he ever wants to use sarcasm again
> he needs to re-open the tag.
>
>  --
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *Jarl Grøneng
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2009 12:17 PM
>


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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[LJ Longwing]

True...but now it's closed...so if he ever wants to use sarcasm again he
needs to re-open the tag.

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:17 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


** 
He may open it the first time he start working with AR Server :-)


--
Jarl


2009/10/12 LJ Longwing 


** 
Patrick, don't you know you can't use close tags without first opening
them?you can leave them open, but you can never close them first...:)

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of patrick zandi
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:35 AM 

To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


** 
Oh you silly people, 
What counts is that a manager gets his name in lights somewhere and says "I
did that" "ME" "ME" "ME"... 
Cash the check and head home to tahiti ///
It's not about you!  it is about him!   

 
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:25 PM, PRUITT, CHRISTOPHER
 wrote:


** 

Not sure if anyone has asked this question, so here I go. What about mass
data updates? We perform these on a daily basis. Selecting 100, 1,000,
10,000 records and doing a Modify All. Will this function be available when
the WUT goes away. I have tried this on the current Mid-Tier with no
success.

 

Christopher Pruitt 
Business Consulting III 

HP Enterprises Services
christopher.pru...@hp.com <mailto:mary.jo...@hp.com> 
www.hp.com <http://www.hp.com/>  

HP-logo_chrome-blue_small

 

Confidentiality Notice: This message and any files transmitted with it are
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Kelly Logan]

It's important to keep in mind what's in the head(er) when you're reading
for content and context. . .  ;^)

 

Kelly Logan

Senior Remedy Developer

 <http://www.cybersolution.us/> Cybernetic Solutions, Inc.

Office:  (313) 586-8334

Mobile:  (313) 645-4552

 

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of strauss
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 2:20 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

 

** 

Those of us who have been reading Zandish for years know that most of his
postings begin with the  tag.  So it's assumed, within the
environment. J

 

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/ 

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of LJ Longwing
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:08 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

 

** 

Patrick, don't you know you can't use close tags without first opening
them?you can leave them open, but you can never close them first...:)

 

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of patrick zandi
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:35 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

** 

Oh you silly people, 

What counts is that a manager gets his name in lights somewhere and says "I
did that" "ME" "ME" "ME"... 

Cash the check and head home to tahiti ///
It's not about you!  it is about him!   



 

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:25 PM, PRUITT, CHRISTOPHER
 wrote:

** 

Not sure if anyone has asked this question, so here I go. What about mass
data updates? We perform these on a daily basis. Selecting 100, 1,000,
10,000 records and doing a Modify All. Will this function be available when
the WUT goes away. I have tried this on the current Mid-Tier with no
success.

 

Christopher Pruitt 
Business Consulting III 

HP Enterprises Services
christopher.pru...@hp.com <mailto:mary.jo...@hp.com> 
www.hp.com <http://www.hp.com/>  

Error! Filename not specified.

 

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discard this message. Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[strauss]

Those of us who have been reading Zandish for years know that most of his 
postings begin with the  tag.  So it's assumed, within the 
environment. :)

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of LJ Longwing
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:08 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**
Patrick, don't you know you can't use close tags without first opening 
them?you can leave them open, but you can never close them first...:)


From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of patrick zandi
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:35 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
**
Oh you silly people,
What counts is that a manager gets his name in lights somewhere and says "I did 
that" "ME" "ME" "ME"...
Cash the check and head home to tahiti ///
It's not about you!  it is about him!


On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:25 PM, PRUITT, CHRISTOPHER 
mailto:christopher.pru...@hp.com>> wrote:
**
Not sure if anyone has asked this question, so here I go. What about mass data 
updates? We perform these on a daily basis. Selecting 100, 1,000, 10,000 
records and doing a Modify All. Will this function be available when the WUT 
goes away. I have tried this on the current Mid-Tier with no success.

Christopher Pruitt
Business Consulting III
HP Enterprises Services
christopher.pru...@hp.com<mailto:mary.jo...@hp.com>
www.hp.com<http://www.hp.com/>
Error! Filename not specified.

Confidentiality Notice: This message and any files transmitted with it are 
intended for the sole use of the entity or individual to whom it is addressed, 
and may contain information that is confidential, privileged, and exempt from 
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e-mail, you are hereby notified that any copying, distribution, or 
dissemination of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
e-mail in error, please immediately destroy, erase, or discard this message. 
Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail if you have received this 
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Jarl Grøneng]

He may open it the first time he start working with AR Server :-)


--
Jarl

2009/10/12 LJ Longwing 

> ** Patrick, don't you know you can't use close tags without first opening
> them?you can leave them open, but you can never close them first...:)
>
>  --
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2009 11:35 AM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based
> client)
>
> **
> Oh you silly people,
> What counts is that a manager gets his name in lights somewhere and says "I
> did that" "ME" "ME" "ME"...
> Cash the check and head home to tahiti ///
> It's not about you!  it is about him!
> 
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:25 PM, PRUITT, CHRISTOPHER <
> christopher.pru...@hp.com> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>> Not sure if anyone has asked this question, so here I go. What about mass
>> data updates? We perform these on a daily basis. Selecting 100, 1,000,
>> 10,000 records and doing a Modify All. Will this function be available when
>> the WUT goes away. I have tried this on the current Mid-Tier with no
>> success.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Christopher Pruitt*
>> Business Consulting III
>>
>> *HP Enterprises Services*
>> christopher.pru...@hp.com 
>> www.hp.com
>>
>> [image: HP-logo_chrome-blue_small]
>>
>>
>>
>> *Confidentiality Notice:* This message and any files transmitted with it
>> are intended for the sole use of the entity or individual to whom it is
>> addressed, and may contain information that is confidential, privileged, and
>> exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended
>> addressee for this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any copying,
>> distribution, or dissemination of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
>> have received this e-mail in error, please immediately destroy, erase, or
>> discard this message. Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail
>> if you have received this e-mail by mistake.
>>
>>
>>  _Platinum Sponsor: rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers
>> Are"_
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Patrick Zandi
> _Platinum Sponsor: rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers
> Are"_
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[LJ Longwing]

Patrick, don't you know you can't use close tags without first opening
them?you can leave them open, but you can never close them first...:)

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of patrick zandi
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:35 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


** 
Oh you silly people, 
What counts is that a manager gets his name in lights somewhere and says "I
did that" "ME" "ME" "ME"... 
Cash the check and head home to tahiti ///
It's not about you!  it is about him!   

 
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:25 PM, PRUITT, CHRISTOPHER
 wrote:


** 

Not sure if anyone has asked this question, so here I go. What about mass
data updates? We perform these on a daily basis. Selecting 100, 1,000,
10,000 records and doing a Modify All. Will this function be available when
the WUT goes away. I have tried this on the current Mid-Tier with no
success.

 

Christopher Pruitt 
Business Consulting III 

HP Enterprises Services
christopher.pru...@hp.com <mailto:mary.jo...@hp.com> 
www.hp.com <http://www.hp.com/>  

HP-logo_chrome-blue_small

 

Confidentiality Notice: This message and any files transmitted with it are
intended for the sole use of the entity or individual to whom it is
addressed, and may contain information that is confidential, privileged, and
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[patrick zandi]

Oh you silly people,
What counts is that a manager gets his name in lights somewhere and says "I
did that" "ME" "ME" "ME"...
Cash the check and head home to tahiti ///
It's not about you!  it is about him!


On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:25 PM, PRUITT, CHRISTOPHER <
christopher.pru...@hp.com> wrote:

> **
>
> Not sure if anyone has asked this question, so here I go. What about mass
> data updates? We perform these on a daily basis. Selecting 100, 1,000,
> 10,000 records and doing a Modify All. Will this function be available when
> the WUT goes away. I have tried this on the current Mid-Tier with no
> success.
>
>
>
> *Christopher Pruitt*
> Business Consulting III
>
> *HP Enterprises Services*
> christopher.pru...@hp.com 
> www.hp.com
>
> [image: HP-logo_chrome-blue_small]
>
>
>
> *Confidentiality Notice:* This message and any files transmitted with it
> are intended for the sole use of the entity or individual to whom it is
> addressed, and may contain information that is confidential, privileged, and
> exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended
> addressee for this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any copying,
> distribution, or dissemination of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
> have received this e-mail in error, please immediately destroy, erase, or
> discard this message. Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail
> if you have received this e-mail by mistake.
>
>
>  _Platinum Sponsor: rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers
> Are"_
>



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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[PRUITT, CHRISTOPHER]

Not sure if anyone has asked this question, so here I go. What about mass data 
updates? We perform these on a daily basis. Selecting 100, 1,000, 10,000 
records and doing a Modify All. Will this function be available when the WUT 
goes away. I have tried this on the current Mid-Tier with no success.

Christopher Pruitt
Business Consulting III
HP Enterprises Services
christopher.pru...@hp.com
www.hp.com
[cid:image001.jpg@01CA4B37.2241E9F0]

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<>

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Shellman, David]

Dave,

I'm sorry but the answer to more complicated macros is not an acceptable 
answer.  I would hope that by the time the desktop client does reach end of 
life, there is a better answer than this.

Dave


From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Easter, David
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 2:04 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**
The majority of the time, macros are used to run reports - and that 
functionality is currently duplicated on the web client through the 
introduction of Quick Reports in AR System 7.5.00:

"Quick reports in a browser
With the My Reports toolbar button, you can save reports from searches you 
perform on a form. Each report is saved per server, per form, and per user.

For more information, see the "Using the My Reports toolbar button" section in 
the BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide. "

 For more complicated macros, many customers are using the available 
Mouse/Keyboard recorders available in the market at no or low cost.


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Howard Richter
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:11 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**
I have one question, what about macros?

Howard
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:36 AM, strauss 
mailto:stra...@unt.edu>> wrote:
**
I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had that 
actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the native Mac 
client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was basically NO viable 
Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari actually started working 
properly) _except_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had issues, being an unsigned java 
application, but at least Mac users could get their work done.  We really 
missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and we actually tried to get it 
working against the 5.1.2 server but too many new 5.x features did not work 
properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of it, before going 5 long years 
without any decent client for Macs.  When your director's workstation is a Mac, 
you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2 works from a Mac just about every 
day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace (and I used it myself for working 
tickets, since my Windows machine was usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  
Much as I detest java, a very well done java client that actually worked on 
multiple platforms (a much promised but seldom delivered capability for java), 
or ran server-side like RKM, might be a good replacement for the Windows User 
Tool.  My *nixers sure would like that, although they have been well pleased 
with mid-tier 7.1.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] On Behalf Of Guillaume 
Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:29 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That was a 
fiasco!

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick zandi
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I would love to see it..

I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..

I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
java based...
We'll see !!

This will be fun !

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair 
mailto:d...@blairing.com>> wrote:

> ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> possible worlds.
>
> First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of supported
> browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already CHROME
> and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
>  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items that
> can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafte

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Howard Richter]

David,

In my world a number of my customer use it to monitor issue, such as for
different teams or employees.

I think the loss of that function will be felt.

Howard

On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Easter, David  wrote:

> **
>
> The majority of the time, macros are used to run reports – and that
> functionality is currently duplicated on the web client through the
> introduction of Quick Reports in AR System 7.5.00:
>
>
>
> “*Quick reports in a browser***
>
> With the My Reports toolbar button, you can save reports from searches you
> perform on a form. Each report is saved per server, per form, and per user.
>
>
>
> For more information, see the “Using the My Reports toolbar button” section
> in the *BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide*. “
>
>
>
>  For more complicated macros, many customers are using the available
> Mouse/Keyboard recorders available in the market at no or low cost.
>
>
>
>
>
> -David J. Easter
>
> Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
>
> BMC Software, Inc.
>
>
>
> The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in
> this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My
> voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a
> spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software,
> Inc.
>
>
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *Howard Richter
> *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2009 10:11 AM
>
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based
> client)
>
>
>
> **
>
> I have one question, what about macros?
>
>
>
> Howard
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:36 AM, strauss  wrote:
>
> **
>
> I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had
> that actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the
> native Mac client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was
> basically NO viable Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari
> actually started working properly) _*except*_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had
> issues, being an unsigned java application, but at least Mac users could get
> their work done.  We really missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and
> we actually tried to get it working against the 5.1.2 server but too many
> new 5.x features did not work properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of
> it, before going 5 long years without any decent client for Macs.  When your
> director’s workstation is a Mac, you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2
> works from a Mac just about every day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace
> (and I used it myself for working tickets, since my Windows machine was
> usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  Much as I detest java, a very well
> done java client that actually worked on multiple platforms (a much promised
> but seldom delivered capability for java), or ran server-side like RKM,
> might be a good replacement for the Windows User Tool.  My *nixers sure
> would like that, although they have been well pleased with mid-tier 7.1.
>
>
>
> Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
> Call Tracking Administration Manager
> University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
> http://itsm.unt.edu/
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *Guillaume Rheault
> *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2009 8:29 AM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based
> client)
>
>
>
> **
>
>  I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That
> was a fiasco!
>
> Guillaume
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick
> zandi
> Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> I would love to see it..
>
> I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..
>
> I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
> java based...
> We'll see !!
>
> This will be fun !
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair  wrote:
>
> > ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> > Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> > possible worlds.
> >
> > First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of
> supported
> > browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already
> CHROME
> > and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> > way multip

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Easter, David]

The majority of the time, macros are used to run reports - and that 
functionality is currently duplicated on the web client through the 
introduction of Quick Reports in AR System 7.5.00:

"Quick reports in a browser
With the My Reports toolbar button, you can save reports from searches you 
perform on a form. Each report is saved per server, per form, and per user.

For more information, see the "Using the My Reports toolbar button" section in 
the BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide. "

 For more complicated macros, many customers are using the available 
Mouse/Keyboard recorders available in the market at no or low cost.


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Howard Richter
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:11 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**
I have one question, what about macros?

Howard
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:36 AM, strauss 
mailto:stra...@unt.edu>> wrote:
**
I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had that 
actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the native Mac 
client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was basically NO viable 
Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari actually started working 
properly) _except_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had issues, being an unsigned java 
application, but at least Mac users could get their work done.  We really 
missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and we actually tried to get it 
working against the 5.1.2 server but too many new 5.x features did not work 
properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of it, before going 5 long years 
without any decent client for Macs.  When your director's workstation is a Mac, 
you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2 works from a Mac just about every 
day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace (and I used it myself for working 
tickets, since my Windows machine was usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  
Much as I detest java, a very well done java client that actually worked on 
multiple platforms (a much promised but seldom delivered capability for java), 
or ran server-side like RKM, might be a good replacement for the Windows User 
Tool.  My *nixers sure would like that, although they have been well pleased 
with mid-tier 7.1.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] On Behalf Of Guillaume 
Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:29 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That was a 
fiasco!

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick zandi
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I would love to see it..

I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..

I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
java based...
We'll see !!

This will be fun !

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair 
mailto:d...@blairing.com>> wrote:

> ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> possible worlds.
>
> First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of supported
> browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already CHROME
> and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
>  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items that
> can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I think
> the user experience will be very similar.
>
> Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they
> might decide to keep the legacy app alive for years as long as customers
> insist on using it) there doesn't seem to be anything that would stop an
> interested group of developers from creating a work-alike app that speaks to
> the published API.  There might be a market for it by the time they get it
> done. And goodness kn

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Howard Richter]

I have one question, what about macros?

Howard

On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:36 AM, strauss  wrote:

> **
>
> I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had
> that actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the
> native Mac client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was
> basically NO viable Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari
> actually started working properly) _*except*_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had
> issues, being an unsigned java application, but at least Mac users could get
> their work done.  We really missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and
> we actually tried to get it working against the 5.1.2 server but too many
> new 5.x features did not work properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of
> it, before going 5 long years without any decent client for Macs.  When your
> director’s workstation is a Mac, you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2
> works from a Mac just about every day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace
> (and I used it myself for working tickets, since my Windows machine was
> usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  Much as I detest java, a very well
> done java client that actually worked on multiple platforms (a much promised
> but seldom delivered capability for java), or ran server-side like RKM,
> might be a good replacement for the Windows User Tool.  My *nixers sure
> would like that, although they have been well pleased with mid-tier 7.1.
>
>
>
> Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
> Call Tracking Administration Manager
> University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
> http://itsm.unt.edu/
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *Guillaume Rheault
> *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2009 8:29 AM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based
> client)
>
>
>
> **
>
> I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That
> was a fiasco!
>
> Guillaume
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick
> zandi
> Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> I would love to see it..
>
> I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..
>
> I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
> java based...
> We'll see !!
>
> This will be fun !
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair  wrote:
>
> > ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> > Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> > possible worlds.
> >
> > First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of
> supported
> > browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already
> CHROME
> > and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> > way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
> >  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items
> that
> > can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I
> think
> > the user experience will be very similar.
> >
> > Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they
> > might decide to keep the legacy app alive for years as long as customers
> > insist on using it) there doesn't seem to be anything that would stop an
> > interested group of developers from creating a work-alike app that speaks
> to
> > the published API.  There might be a market for it by the time they get
> it
> > done. And goodness knows that BMC/Remedy historically has a much better
> > attitude about allowing connections to their system from both in-house
> and
> > vended products than other proprietary systems. Benefits of an API and
> all
> > that...
> >
> > In fact, with the right style sheet, I'll bet you could draw a frame
> around
> > a browser instance or embed it like a view field does, and most users
> > couldn't discern significant difference. Heck, that's the way that my
> bank
> > "app" works on iPhones isn't it?
> >
> > More familiar, generic interface -> more acceptance -> more users -> more
> > work for people like us :-). Not so bad .
> >
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > On Oct 7, 2009, at 10:53 PM, patrick zandi wrote:
> >
> > **
> > Freedom is having the choice..
> > If they remove the UT, Remedy will be eventually will be swallowed up and
> > disappear by some

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

I am not saying that I miss the AR Web client. That's just what was available 
ten years agoprobably nowadays your programmer would use web services. 
Mid-Tier 7.5 is way better than anything else that has existed, and there are 
improvements with each Mid-Tier version. The first version of Mid-tier, 5.0, 
was not exactly cutting edge, and it has come evolved quite a bit since that 
initial version

Also using Firefox instead of IE helps 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of LJ Longwing
Sent: Fri 10/09/09 12:39 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 
we had a web programmer back in the day that wrote a custom front end for
ARWeb and basically used it as a web api to do what he needed...I like
MidTier better these days

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


** 

I think your environment was particular...because you had Macs. I mean back
then in the ARS 4.0 timeframe, there was three clients: AR Web, Remedy Web
and the User tool.  The users with PCs would prefer the User Tool instead of
the Remedy Web, and the AR Web was better for simpler tasks like submitting
tickets, and checking out ticket status. I never heard of a user, running a
PC, that preferred the RemedyWeb over the User tool...but if you are a Mac
user and don't have another choice, I guess it's all right.

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of strauss
Sent: Fri 10/09/09 10:36 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had
that actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the
native Mac client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was
basically NO viable Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari
actually started working properly) _except_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had
issues, being an unsigned java application, but at least Mac users could get
their work done.  We really missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and
we actually tried to get it working against the 5.1.2 server but too many
new 5.x features did not work properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of
it, before going 5 long years without any decent client for Macs.  When your
director's workstation is a Mac, you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2
works from a Mac just about every day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace
(and I used it myself for working tickets, since my Windows machine was
usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  Much as I detest java, a very well
done java client that actually worked on multiple platforms (a much promised
but seldom delivered capability for java), or ran server-side like RKM,
might be a good replacement for the Windows User Tool.  My *nixers sure
would like that, although they have been well pleased with mid-tier 7.1.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:29 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That was
a fiasco!

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick
zandi
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I would love to see it..

I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..

I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
java based...
We'll see !!

This will be fun !

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair  wrote:

> ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> possible worlds.
>
> First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of
supported
> browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already
CHROME
> and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
>  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items that
> can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I think
> the user experience will be very similar.
>
> Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they
> might decide to keep the lega

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[LJ Longwing]

we had a web programmer back in the day that wrote a custom front end for
ARWeb and basically used it as a web api to do what he needed...I like
MidTier better these days

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


** 

I think your environment was particular...because you had Macs. I mean back
then in the ARS 4.0 timeframe, there was three clients: AR Web, Remedy Web
and the User tool.  The users with PCs would prefer the User Tool instead of
the Remedy Web, and the AR Web was better for simpler tasks like submitting
tickets, and checking out ticket status. I never heard of a user, running a
PC, that preferred the RemedyWeb over the User tool...but if you are a Mac
user and don't have another choice, I guess it's all right.

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of strauss
Sent: Fri 10/09/09 10:36 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had
that actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the
native Mac client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was
basically NO viable Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari
actually started working properly) _except_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had
issues, being an unsigned java application, but at least Mac users could get
their work done.  We really missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and
we actually tried to get it working against the 5.1.2 server but too many
new 5.x features did not work properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of
it, before going 5 long years without any decent client for Macs.  When your
director's workstation is a Mac, you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2
works from a Mac just about every day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace
(and I used it myself for working tickets, since my Windows machine was
usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  Much as I detest java, a very well
done java client that actually worked on multiple platforms (a much promised
but seldom delivered capability for java), or ran server-side like RKM,
might be a good replacement for the Windows User Tool.  My *nixers sure
would like that, although they have been well pleased with mid-tier 7.1.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:29 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That was
a fiasco!

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick
zandi
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I would love to see it..

I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..

I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
java based...
We'll see !!

This will be fun !

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair  wrote:

> ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> possible worlds.
>
> First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of
supported
> browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already
CHROME
> and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
>  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items that
> can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I think
> the user experience will be very similar.
>
> Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they
> might decide to keep the legacy app alive for years as long as customers
> insist on using it) there doesn't seem to be anything that would stop an
> interested group of developers from creating a work-alike app that speaks
to
> the published API.  There might be a market for it by the time they get it
> done. And goodness knows that BMC/Remedy historically has a much better
> attitude about allowing connections to their system from both in-house and
> vended products than other proprietary systems. Benefits of an API and all
> that...
>
> In fact, with the right style sheet, I'll bet you could draw a frame
around
> a browser instance or embed it like a view field does,

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

I think your environment was particular...because you had Macs. I mean back 
then in the ARS 4.0 timeframe, there was three clients: AR Web, Remedy Web and 
the User tool.  The users with PCs would prefer the User Tool instead of the 
Remedy Web, and the AR Web was better for simpler tasks like submitting 
tickets, and checking out ticket status. I never heard of a user, running a PC, 
that preferred the RemedyWeb over the User tool...but if you are a Mac user and 
don't have another choice, I guess it's all right.

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of strauss
Sent: Fri 10/09/09 10:36 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 
I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had that 
actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the native Mac 
client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was basically NO viable 
Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari actually started working 
properly) _except_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had issues, being an unsigned java 
application, but at least Mac users could get their work done.  We really 
missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and we actually tried to get it 
working against the 5.1.2 server but too many new 5.x features did not work 
properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of it, before going 5 long years 
without any decent client for Macs.  When your director's workstation is a Mac, 
you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2 works from a Mac just about every 
day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace (and I used it myself for working 
tickets, since my Windows machine was usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  
Much as I detest java, a very well done java client that actually worked on 
multiple platforms (a much promised but seldom delivered capability for java), 
or ran server-side like RKM, might be a good replacement for the Windows User 
Tool.  My *nixers sure would like that, although they have been well pleased 
with mid-tier 7.1.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:29 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That was a 
fiasco!

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick zandi
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I would love to see it..

I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..

I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
java based...
We'll see !!

This will be fun !

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair  wrote:

> ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> possible worlds.
>
> First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of supported
> browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already CHROME
> and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
>  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items that
> can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I think
> the user experience will be very similar.
>
> Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they
> might decide to keep the legacy app alive for years as long as customers
> insist on using it) there doesn't seem to be anything that would stop an
> interested group of developers from creating a work-alike app that speaks to
> the published API.  There might be a market for it by the time they get it
> done. And goodness knows that BMC/Remedy historically has a much better
> attitude about allowing connections to their system from both in-house and
> vended products than other proprietary systems. Benefits of an API and all
> that...
>
> In fact, with the right style sheet, I'll bet you could draw a frame around
> a browser instance or embed it like a view field does, and most users
> couldn't discern significant difference. Heck, that's the way that my bank
> "app" works on iPhones isn't it?
>
> More familiar, generic interface -> more acceptance -> more users -> more
> work for people like us :-). Not so bad .
>
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2009, at 10:53 PM, patrick zandi wrote:
>
> **
> Freedom 

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Jason Miller]

By the time the User Tool is gone a standard PC will have 8gb of ram :)

On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Grooms, Frederick W <
frederick.w.gro...@xo.com> wrote:

> **
>
> One big problem I have with using a browser for everything is it is a huge
> memory hog.
>
>
>
> In the User tool with a form open and a set of records displayed the memory
> used is 12,432K.  With IE and the same form and records it is 35,384K.  With
> Firefox and the same form and records it is 31,868K.
>
>
>
> Fred
>
>
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi
> *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2009 9:55 AM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based
> client)
>
>
>
> **
>
> I remember using that as well, we had macs.. and it worked for them
> nicely.. you had to have the right version of java..
>
> I like remedyweb more than midtier -- in that day..
>
> We Rolled out remedyweb fine, but did not even roll out mid-tier.. cause it
> stunk.
>
> Midtier today is light years different.. but If Remedyweb came back in new
> wrapper.. I would definately consider it.
>
> Which is what I was honestly thinking...  that might happen.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:36 AM, strauss  wrote:
>
> **
>
> I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had
> that actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the
> native Mac client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was
> basically NO viable Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari
> actually started working properly) _*except*_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had
> issues, being an unsigned java application, but at least Mac users could get
> their work done.  We really missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and
> we actually tried to get it working against the 5.1.2 server but too many
> new 5.x features did not work properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of
> it, before going 5 long years without any decent client for Macs.  When your
> director’s workstation is a Mac, you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2
> works from a Mac just about every day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace
> (and I used it myself for working tickets, since my Windows machine was
> usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  Much as I detest java, a very well
> done java client that actually worked on multiple platforms (a much promised
> but seldom delivered capability for java), or ran server-side like RKM,
> might be a good replacement for the Windows User Tool.  My *nixers sure
> would like that, although they have been well pleased with mid-tier 7.1.
>
>
>
> Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
> Call Tracking Administration Manager
> University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
> http://itsm.unt.edu/ **
>
>
> _Platinum Sponsor: rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers
> Are"_

___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Grooms, Frederick W]

One big problem I have with using a browser for everything is it is a huge 
memory hog.

In the User tool with a form open and a set of records displayed the memory 
used is 12,432K.  With IE and the same form and records it is 35,384K.  With 
Firefox and the same form and records it is 31,868K.

Fred

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of patrick zandi
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 9:55 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**
I remember using that as well, we had macs.. and it worked for them nicely.. 
you had to have the right version of java..
I like remedyweb more than midtier -- in that day..
We Rolled out remedyweb fine, but did not even roll out mid-tier.. cause it 
stunk.
Midtier today is light years different.. but If Remedyweb came back in new 
wrapper.. I would definately consider it.
Which is what I was honestly thinking...  that might happen.
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:36 AM, strauss 
mailto:stra...@unt.edu>> wrote:
**
I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had that 
actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the native Mac 
client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was basically NO viable 
Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari actually started working 
properly) _except_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had issues, being an unsigned java 
application, but at least Mac users could get their work done.  We really 
missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and we actually tried to get it 
working against the 5.1.2 server but too many new 5.x features did not work 
properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of it, before going 5 long years 
without any decent client for Macs.  When your director's workstation is a Mac, 
you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2 works from a Mac just about every 
day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace (and I used it myself for working 
tickets, since my Windows machine was usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  
Much as I detest java, a very well done java client that actually worked on 
multiple platforms (a much promised but seldom delivered capability for java), 
or ran server-side like RKM, might be a good replacement for the Windows User 
Tool.  My *nixers sure would like that, although they have been well pleased 
with mid-tier 7.1.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/


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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[patrick zandi]

I remember using that as well, we had macs.. and it worked for them nicely..
you had to have the right version of java..
I like remedyweb more than midtier -- in that day..
We Rolled out remedyweb fine, but did not even roll out mid-tier.. cause it
stunk.
Midtier today is light years different.. but If Remedyweb came back in new
wrapper.. I would definately consider it.
Which is what I was honestly thinking...  that might happen.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:36 AM, strauss  wrote:

> **
>
> I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had
> that actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the
> native Mac client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was
> basically NO viable Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari
> actually started working properly) _*except*_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had
> issues, being an unsigned java application, but at least Mac users could get
> their work done.  We really missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and
> we actually tried to get it working against the 5.1.2 server but too many
> new 5.x features did not work properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of
> it, before going 5 long years without any decent client for Macs.  When your
> director’s workstation is a Mac, you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2
> works from a Mac just about every day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace
> (and I used it myself for working tickets, since my Windows machine was
> usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  Much as I detest java, a very well
> done java client that actually worked on multiple platforms (a much promised
> but seldom delivered capability for java), or ran server-side like RKM,
> might be a good replacement for the Windows User Tool.  My *nixers sure
> would like that, although they have been well pleased with mid-tier 7.1.
>
>
>
> Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
> Call Tracking Administration Manager
> University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
> http://itsm.unt.edu/
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *Guillaume Rheault
> *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2009 8:29 AM
>
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based
> client)
>
>
>
> **
>
> I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That
> was a fiasco!
>
> Guillaume
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick
> zandi
> Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> I would love to see it..
>
> I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..
>
> I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
> java based...
> We'll see !!
>
> This will be fun !
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair  wrote:
>
> > ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> > Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> > possible worlds.
> >
> > First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of
> supported
> > browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already
> CHROME
> > and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> > way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
> >  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items
> that
> > can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I
> think
> > the user experience will be very similar.
> >
> > Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they
> > might decide to keep the legacy app alive for years as long as customers
> > insist on using it) there doesn't seem to be anything that would stop an
> > interested group of developers from creating a work-alike app that speaks
> to
> > the published API.  There might be a market for it by the time they get
> it
> > done. And goodness knows that BMC/Remedy historically has a much better
> > attitude about allowing connections to their system from both in-house
> and
> > vended products than other proprietary systems. Benefits of an API and
> all
> > that...
> >
> > In fact, with the right style sheet, I'll bet you could draw a frame
> around
> > a browser instance or embed it like a view field does, and most users
> > couldn't discern significant difference. Heck, that's the way that my
> bank
> > "app" works on iPhones isn't it?
> >
> > More familiar, generic interface -> 

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[strauss]

I beg to differ. RemedyWeb was the ONLY solution our Macintosh users had that 
actually worked for several years!  After Remedy discontinued the native Mac 
client (version 3.2) and we moved to 4.x in 1999, there was basically NO viable 
Mac support until 7.1.00.002 in 2008 (when Safari actually started working 
properly) _except_ for RemedyWeb 4.x.  It had issues, being an unsigned java 
application, but at least Mac users could get their work done.  We really 
missed it after we moved to 5.1.2 in 2003, and we actually tried to get it 
working against the 5.1.2 server but too many new 5.x features did not work 
properly.  We got almost 4 good years out of it, before going 5 long years 
without any decent client for Macs.  When your director's workstation is a Mac, 
you get hear about how badly mid-tier 5.1.2 works from a Mac just about every 
day. RemedyWeb gave me four years of peace (and I used it myself for working 
tickets, since my Windows machine was usually logged in to the Admin Tool).  
Much as I detest java, a very well done java client that actually worked on 
multiple platforms (a much promised but seldom delivered capability for java), 
or ran server-side like RKM, might be a good replacement for the Windows User 
Tool.  My *nixers sure would like that, although they have been well pleased 
with mid-tier 7.1.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:29 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That was a 
fiasco!

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick zandi
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I would love to see it..

I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..

I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
java based...
We'll see !!

This will be fun !

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair  wrote:

> ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> possible worlds.
>
> First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of supported
> browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already CHROME
> and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
>  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items that
> can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I think
> the user experience will be very similar.
>
> Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they
> might decide to keep the legacy app alive for years as long as customers
> insist on using it) there doesn't seem to be anything that would stop an
> interested group of developers from creating a work-alike app that speaks to
> the published API.  There might be a market for it by the time they get it
> done. And goodness knows that BMC/Remedy historically has a much better
> attitude about allowing connections to their system from both in-house and
> vended products than other proprietary systems. Benefits of an API and all
> that...
>
> In fact, with the right style sheet, I'll bet you could draw a frame around
> a browser instance or embed it like a view field does, and most users
> couldn't discern significant difference. Heck, that's the way that my bank
> "app" works on iPhones isn't it?
>
> More familiar, generic interface -> more acceptance -> more users -> more
> work for people like us :-). Not so bad .
>
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2009, at 10:53 PM, patrick zandi wrote:
>
> **
> Freedom is having the choice..
> If they remove the UT, Remedy will be eventually will be swallowed up and
> disappear by someone else.
> People like choices,
> I used to give my son choices,
>  you can have a bubble bath, or a regular bath.
> But ...  you are going to have a bath!
>
> If you dictate what the customer will like and have and not have it
> will disappear.
> Don't use your freedom and you will loose it..
>
> my .5 Cents
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Kemes, Lisa <
> lisa.ke...@tycoelectronics.com> wrote:
>
>> Another question are Views.  Right now we have our users set what view
>> they should be on in the RUT.  I guess this may be an addition we might have
>> to make on each 

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[David Charters]

All,

 

I think the product has to move forward and away from a thick client. In
think in this market space with HP, People Software etc.. the idea of a
thick client is becoming out dated. I have even had customers ask me why in
the world BMC would have a thick client. A thick Client requires a new roll
out for patches and more maintenance. Companies are already maintaining
their web browser so if you go with all browser based then you eliminate yet
another app that needs maintenance. Also keep in mind I think BMC's goal is
to greatly focus on the Out Of The Box solutions rather than some of the
home grown apps sitting around at some of the companies out there.

 

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 9:29 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

 

** 

I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That was
a fiasco!

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick
zandi
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I would love to see it..

I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..

I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
java based...
We'll see !!

This will be fun !

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair  wrote:

> ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> possible worlds.
>
> First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of
supported
> browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already
CHROME
> and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
>  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items that
> can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I think
> the user experience will be very similar.
>
> Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they
> might decide to keep the legacy app alive for years as long as customers
> insist on using it) there doesn't seem to be anything that would stop an
> interested group of developers from creating a work-alike app that speaks
to
> the published API.  There might be a market for it by the time they get it
> done. And goodness knows that BMC/Remedy historically has a much better
> attitude about allowing connections to their system from both in-house and
> vended products than other proprietary systems. Benefits of an API and all
> that...
>
> In fact, with the right style sheet, I'll bet you could draw a frame
around
> a browser instance or embed it like a view field does, and most users
> couldn't discern significant difference. Heck, that's the way that my bank
> "app" works on iPhones isn't it?
>
> More familiar, generic interface -> more acceptance -> more users -> more
> work for people like us :-). Not so bad .
>
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2009, at 10:53 PM, patrick zandi wrote:
>
> **
> Freedom is having the choice..
> If they remove the UT, Remedy will be eventually will be swallowed up and
> disappear by someone else.
> People like choices,
> I used to give my son choices,
>  you can have a bubble bath, or a regular bath.
> But ...  you are going to have a bath!
>
> If you dictate what the customer will like and have and not have it
> will disappear.
> Don't use your freedom and you will loose it..
>
> my .5 Cents
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Kemes, Lisa <
> lisa.ke...@tycoelectronics.com> wrote:
>
>> Another question are Views.  Right now we have our users set what view
>> they should be on in the RUT.  I guess this may be an addition we might
have
>> to make on each User Preference form in the future?
>>
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
>> arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Axton
>> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:12 AM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>>
>>  I agree with your assessment that the MT trying to do the same thing as
>> the user tool; I do not this it makes for a good web experience at all;
>> multiple browsers running to access a single web application results in
poor
>> usability.  A change to a different design would require a whole paradigm
>> shift in thinking and designing applications; a sep

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

I hope it would not end up being the next version of the RemedyWeb. That was a 
fiasco!

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of patrick zandi
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 10:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 
I would love to see it..

I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..

I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
java based...
We'll see !!

This will be fun !

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair  wrote:

> ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> possible worlds.
>
> First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of supported
> browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already CHROME
> and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
>  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items that
> can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I think
> the user experience will be very similar.
>
> Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they
> might decide to keep the legacy app alive for years as long as customers
> insist on using it) there doesn't seem to be anything that would stop an
> interested group of developers from creating a work-alike app that speaks to
> the published API.  There might be a market for it by the time they get it
> done. And goodness knows that BMC/Remedy historically has a much better
> attitude about allowing connections to their system from both in-house and
> vended products than other proprietary systems. Benefits of an API and all
> that...
>
> In fact, with the right style sheet, I'll bet you could draw a frame around
> a browser instance or embed it like a view field does, and most users
> couldn't discern significant difference. Heck, that's the way that my bank
> "app" works on iPhones isn't it?
>
> More familiar, generic interface -> more acceptance -> more users -> more
> work for people like us :-). Not so bad .
>
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2009, at 10:53 PM, patrick zandi wrote:
>
> **
> Freedom is having the choice..
> If they remove the UT, Remedy will be eventually will be swallowed up and
> disappear by someone else.
> People like choices,
> I used to give my son choices,
>  you can have a bubble bath, or a regular bath.
> But ...  you are going to have a bath!
>
> If you dictate what the customer will like and have and not have it
> will disappear.
> Don't use your freedom and you will loose it..
>
> my .5 Cents
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Kemes, Lisa <
> lisa.ke...@tycoelectronics.com> wrote:
>
>> Another question are Views.  Right now we have our users set what view
>> they should be on in the RUT.  I guess this may be an addition we might have
>> to make on each User Preference form in the future?
>>
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
>> arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Axton
>> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:12 AM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>>
>>  I agree with your assessment that the MT trying to do the same thing as
>> the user tool; I do not this it makes for a good web experience at all;
>> multiple browsers running to access a single web application results in poor
>> usability.  A change to a different design would require a whole paradigm
>> shift in thinking and designing applications; a separation of the model and
>> the view, if you will.  It opens the doors to a lot of things, but would be
>> a drastically different way to look at things as compared to the way people
>> are accustomed to thinking about Remedy when they design applications today.
>>
>> Axton
>>
>> These are my opinions only and do not represent those of BMC Software,
>> Inc.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:44 PM, John Sundberg <
>> john.sundb...@kineticdata.com> wrote:
>> > I feel it is a great move.
>> >
>> > BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps
>> > (alerts/reporting/macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those
>> > tools already exist -- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.
>> >
>> > (I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for
>> > our new user 

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[patrick zandi]

I would love to see it..

I hope something else fills the void prior.. Really I do ..

I think it is possible..  but I think it will end up being the same thing
java based...
We'll see !!

This will be fun !

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Doug Blair  wrote:

> ** Patrick, Lisa et al,
> Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many
> possible worlds.
>
> First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of supported
> browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already CHROME
> and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same
> way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.
>  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items that
> can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I think
> the user experience will be very similar.
>
> Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they
> might decide to keep the legacy app alive for years as long as customers
> insist on using it) there doesn't seem to be anything that would stop an
> interested group of developers from creating a work-alike app that speaks to
> the published API.  There might be a market for it by the time they get it
> done. And goodness knows that BMC/Remedy historically has a much better
> attitude about allowing connections to their system from both in-house and
> vended products than other proprietary systems. Benefits of an API and all
> that...
>
> In fact, with the right style sheet, I'll bet you could draw a frame around
> a browser instance or embed it like a view field does, and most users
> couldn't discern significant difference. Heck, that's the way that my bank
> "app" works on iPhones isn't it?
>
> More familiar, generic interface -> more acceptance -> more users -> more
> work for people like us :-). Not so bad .
>
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2009, at 10:53 PM, patrick zandi wrote:
>
> **
> Freedom is having the choice..
> If they remove the UT, Remedy will be eventually will be swallowed up and
> disappear by someone else.
> People like choices,
> I used to give my son choices,
>  you can have a bubble bath, or a regular bath.
> But ...  you are going to have a bath!
>
> If you dictate what the customer will like and have and not have it
> will disappear.
> Don't use your freedom and you will loose it..
>
> my .5 Cents
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Kemes, Lisa <
> lisa.ke...@tycoelectronics.com> wrote:
>
>> Another question are Views.  Right now we have our users set what view
>> they should be on in the RUT.  I guess this may be an addition we might have
>> to make on each User Preference form in the future?
>>
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
>> arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Axton
>> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:12 AM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>>
>>  I agree with your assessment that the MT trying to do the same thing as
>> the user tool; I do not this it makes for a good web experience at all;
>> multiple browsers running to access a single web application results in poor
>> usability.  A change to a different design would require a whole paradigm
>> shift in thinking and designing applications; a separation of the model and
>> the view, if you will.  It opens the doors to a lot of things, but would be
>> a drastically different way to look at things as compared to the way people
>> are accustomed to thinking about Remedy when they design applications today.
>>
>> Axton
>>
>> These are my opinions only and do not represent those of BMC Software,
>> Inc.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:44 PM, John Sundberg <
>> john.sundb...@kineticdata.com> wrote:
>> > I feel it is a great move.
>> >
>> > BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps
>> > (alerts/reporting/macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those
>> > tools already exist -- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.
>> >
>> > (I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for
>> > our new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT) (I will
>> > guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily 50,000 tools
>> > exist for web stuff)
>> >
>> >
>> > Alerts -- growl/rss
>> > Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all
>> > the 

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Doug Blair]

**
Patrick, Lisa et al,Actually the more I think about this the decision may be the best of many possible worlds. First, by the time the WUT disappears from the scene the range of supported browsers will be much larger, and faster, and more flexible. Already CHROME and other browsers offer tear-off tabs which would function just the same way multiple windows, or multiple instances, in the current WUT do today.  Time-out, cacheing and licensing issues are just configuration items that can be resolved in the 8 release or shortly thereafter.  In short, I think the user experience will be very similar.Second, just because BMC will take the WUT off the market (though they might decide to keep the legacy app alive for years as long as customers insist on using it) there doesn't seem to be anything that would stop an interested group of developers from creating a work-alike app that speaks to the published API.  There might be a market for it by the time they get it done. And goodness knows that BMC/Remedy historically has a much better attitude about allowing connections to their system from both in-house and vended products than other proprietary systems. Benefits of an API and all that...In fact, with the right style sheet, I'll bet you could draw a frame around a browser instance or embed it like a view field does, and most users couldn't discern significant difference. Heck, that's the way that my bank "app" works on iPhones isn't it? More familiar, generic interface -> more acceptance -> more users -> more work for people like us :-). Not so bad .DougOn Oct 7, 2009, at 10:53 PM, patrick zandi wrote:**
Freedom is having the choice.. 
If they remove the UT, Remedy will be eventually will be swallowed up and disappear by someone else.
People like choices, 
I used to give my son choices, 
 you can have a bubble bath, or a regular bath.
But ...  you are going to have a bath!
 
If you dictate what the customer will like and have and not have it will disappear.
Don't use your freedom and you will loose it..
 
my .5 Cents
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Kemes, Lisa <lisa.ke...@tycoelectronics.com> wrote:
Another question are Views.  Right now we have our users set what view they should be on in the RUT.  I guess this may be an addition we might have to make on each User Preference form in the future?
Lisa
-Original Message-From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of AxtonSent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:12 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGSubject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


I agree with your assessment that the MT trying to do the same thing as the user tool; I do not this it makes for a good web experience at all; multiple browsers running to access a single web application results in poor usability.  A change to a different design would require a whole paradigm shift in thinking and designing applications; a separation of the model and the view, if you will.  It opens the doors to a lot of things, but would be a drastically different way to look at things as compared to the way people are accustomed to thinking about Remedy when they design applications today.
AxtonThese are my opinions only and do not represent those of BMC Software, Inc.On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:44 PM, John Sundberg <john.sundb...@kineticdata.com> wrote:
> I feel it is a great move.>> BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps> (alerts/reporting/macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those> tools already exist -- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.
>> (I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for> our new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT) (I will> guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily 50,000 tools
> exist for web stuff)>>> Alerts -- growl/rss> Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all> the time Macros -- greasemonkey Printing -- ??? -- I forget what I use
> - but it works just fine.>> OLE/DDE -- client back to server -- back to client stuff -- would be> doable> -- if not you can solve the problem some other way altogether.>> I personally don't think the MT is a good web strategy -- but it too
> will have to change -- and again -- that is a good thing.> (precache and very dynamic screens have issues and always will) --> more rigid screens will greatly improve things (FYI -- what Kinetic> Request does)
>> The MT is currently tasked with doing the same thing as the WUT but> via the web. I think the whole paradigm is ripe for change. The WUT is a very "raw"> experience and you can get quite close to the "database" (developers
> think that is good/power users think that is good/avg person is> confused). I think the tools and applications need to raise up a b

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[patrick zandi]

Freedom is having the choice..
If they remove the UT, Remedy will be eventually will be swallowed up and
disappear by someone else.
People like choices,
I used to give my son choices,
 you can have a bubble bath, or a regular bath.
But ...  you are going to have a bath!

If you dictate what the customer will like and have and not have it will
disappear.
Don't use your freedom and you will loose it..

my .5 Cents

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Kemes, Lisa
wrote:

> Another question are Views.  Right now we have our users set what view they
> should be on in the RUT.  I guess this may be an addition we might have to
> make on each User Preference form in the future?
>
>
> Lisa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Axton
> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:12 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
>  I agree with your assessment that the MT trying to do the same thing as
> the user tool; I do not this it makes for a good web experience at all;
> multiple browsers running to access a single web application results in poor
> usability.  A change to a different design would require a whole paradigm
> shift in thinking and designing applications; a separation of the model and
> the view, if you will.  It opens the doors to a lot of things, but would be
> a drastically different way to look at things as compared to the way people
> are accustomed to thinking about Remedy when they design applications today.
>
> Axton
>
> These are my opinions only and do not represent those of BMC Software, Inc.
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:44 PM, John Sundberg <
> john.sundb...@kineticdata.com> wrote:
> > I feel it is a great move.
> >
> > BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps
> > (alerts/reporting/macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those
> > tools already exist -- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.
> >
> > (I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for
> > our new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT) (I will
> > guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily 50,000 tools
> > exist for web stuff)
> >
> >
> > Alerts -- growl/rss
> > Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all
> > the time Macros -- greasemonkey Printing -- ??? -- I forget what I use
> > - but it works just fine.
> >
> > OLE/DDE -- client back to server -- back to client stuff -- would be
> > doable
> > -- if not you can solve the problem some other way altogether.
> >
> > I personally don't think the MT is a good web strategy -- but it too
> > will have to change -- and again -- that is a good thing.
> > (precache and very dynamic screens have issues and always will) --
> > more rigid screens will greatly improve things (FYI -- what Kinetic
> > Request does)
> >
> > The MT is currently tasked with doing the same thing as the WUT but
> > via the web. I think the whole paradigm is ripe for change. The WUT is a
> very "raw"
> > experience and you can get quite close to the "database" (developers
> > think that is good/power users think that is good/avg person is
> > confused). I think the tools and applications need to raise up a bit
> > and be more process oriented and more application oriented -- which by
> > nature avoids the needs for things like:
> > "saved searches"
> > "copy to new"
> > "clear"
> > 
> > all those above functions should be done by the application and not
> > the "user tool" -- because a saved search or a copy to new is really
> > application specific. Example:
> >
> > copy to new -- do you want to copy all 100 fields (hidden ones) -- or
> > only 5 fields -- the current will do all.
> > saved search --  searches are just criteria -- the app should be able
> > to provide that clear -- this has always sucked!!!
> >
> >
> > I like that BMC is attempting to move the product in a direction --
> > good for them.
> >
> >
> > You can't make everybody happy -- you can only do what you feel is the
> > right way -- and sometimes it causes pain -- the goal is long term
> betterness.
> >
> > (made that last word up)
> >
> >
> > Lets discuss at WWRUG... sign up here:
> > http://kineticsr.kineticdata.com/kinetic/DisplayPage?name=WWRUG2009REG
> > ISTRATION
> >
> > -John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:22

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Tony Worthington]

Analytics for BSM provides just this.  A pre-built ootb B/O Universe. 
Granted, you would need to design your custom forms in B/O.  Maybe someone 
could write a tool to translate a Remedy form into a Universe...

Tony Worthington | Sr. Technical Analyst | Kohl?s Department Stores
N56 W17000 Ridgewood Drive | Menomonee Falls, WI  53051 | office: (262) 
703-7763 | e-mail: tony.worthing...@kohls.com



From:
Jason Miller 
To:
arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Date:
10/02/2009 12:51 PM
Subject:
Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
Sent by:
"Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)" 



** I thought about that originally as a possible solution and technically 
you could make it work. You would lose functionality that the ARS server 
provides and would have to manually build it into your reports, reporting 
db (like a universe, etc) or into the db (views, etc).  ARS is built do 
offer up meta-data where appropriate.

Examples would be:
  - Form and field permissions would not be enforced.  Users would see all 
fields and forms.
  - Row level permission would not be enforced.  This could be huge now 
with multitenancy in ITSM 7
  - Selection fields would show their numeric value
  - Date/Time, Date, and Time fields would show their db value which would 
have to be converted to be human readable

I think most of this could be address by an BI suite (BOXI, Cognos, etc) 
but now you are looking at having a developer just to manage a BI suite 
and reports.  With the AR ODBC any of my users that have Crystal Reports 
or even MS Access can use the AR ODBC driver to gather data without my 
assistance.

Jason

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Scott Hammons  wrote:
They will probably move from using the ODBC driver to JDBC drivers for the 
DB platforms.  Most enterprise web based applications do this already.

Just my .02.

Scott



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Kemes, Lisa]

Another question are Views.  Right now we have our users set what view they 
should be on in the RUT.  I guess this may be an addition we might have to make 
on each User Preference form in the future? 


Lisa

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Axton
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:12 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I agree with your assessment that the MT trying to do the same thing as the 
user tool; I do not this it makes for a good web experience at all; multiple 
browsers running to access a single web application results in poor usability.  
A change to a different design would require a whole paradigm shift in thinking 
and designing applications; a separation of the model and the view, if you 
will.  It opens the doors to a lot of things, but would be a drastically 
different way to look at things as compared to the way people are accustomed to 
thinking about Remedy when they design applications today.

Axton

These are my opinions only and do not represent those of BMC Software, Inc.

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:44 PM, John Sundberg  
wrote:
> I feel it is a great move.
>
> BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps
> (alerts/reporting/macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those 
> tools already exist -- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.
>
> (I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for 
> our new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT) (I will 
> guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily 50,000 tools 
> exist for web stuff)
>
>
> Alerts -- growl/rss
> Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all 
> the time Macros -- greasemonkey Printing -- ??? -- I forget what I use 
> - but it works just fine.
>
> OLE/DDE -- client back to server -- back to client stuff -- would be 
> doable
> -- if not you can solve the problem some other way altogether.
>
> I personally don't think the MT is a good web strategy -- but it too 
> will have to change -- and again -- that is a good thing.
> (precache and very dynamic screens have issues and always will) -- 
> more rigid screens will greatly improve things (FYI -- what Kinetic 
> Request does)
>
> The MT is currently tasked with doing the same thing as the WUT but 
> via the web. I think the whole paradigm is ripe for change. The WUT is a very 
> "raw"
> experience and you can get quite close to the "database" (developers 
> think that is good/power users think that is good/avg person is 
> confused). I think the tools and applications need to raise up a bit 
> and be more process oriented and more application oriented -- which by 
> nature avoids the needs for things like:
> "saved searches"
> "copy to new"
> "clear"
> 
> all those above functions should be done by the application and not 
> the "user tool" -- because a saved search or a copy to new is really 
> application specific. Example:
>
> copy to new -- do you want to copy all 100 fields (hidden ones) -- or 
> only 5 fields -- the current will do all.
> saved search --  searches are just criteria -- the app should be able 
> to provide that clear -- this has always sucked!!!
>
>
> I like that BMC is attempting to move the product in a direction -- 
> good for them.
>
>
> You can't make everybody happy -- you can only do what you feel is the 
> right way -- and sometimes it causes pain -- the goal is long term betterness.
>
> (made that last word up)
>
>
> Lets discuss at WWRUG... sign up here:
> http://kineticsr.kineticdata.com/kinetic/DisplayPage?name=WWRUG2009REG
> ISTRATION
>
> -John
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Jarl Grøneng wrote:
>
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release 
> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
>
> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
>
> --
> Jarl
>
> __
> _ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org 
> Platinum Sponsor:rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"
>
> --
> John David Sundberg
> 235 East 6th Street, Suite 400B
> St. Paul, MN 55101
> (651) 556-0930-work
> (651) 247-6766-cell
> (651) 695-8577-fax
> john.sundb...@kineticdata.com
>
> __
> _ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org 
> Platinum Sponsor:rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"
>

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Easter, David]

Answered this same question on BMC DN:

http://communities.bmc.com/communities/message/107521#107521

" A more economical solution will be provided for customers who either wish to 
continue using Crystal Reports (or Business Objects) through the web client or 
wish to use any new technologies released by BMC that provide similar reporting 
capabilities to the current ITSM OOTB Crystal Reports.  Unfortunately, due to 
the forward looking nature of the question, no specific details can be released 
at this time.  As AR System and ITSM 8.0 are released, more information will 
become available on how this situation will be addressed in releases in 2011 
and beyond."
 
-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.
 
The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

 -Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Trond Valen
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 3:30 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

What about running Crystal Reports reports on the Mid-Tier? Will everyone have 
to buy BOXI, Crystal Reports or Crystal Reports Developer Advantage licenses?

Trond

-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] På vegne av Axton
Lagt inn: 3. oktober 2009 08:12
Lagt inn i: Remedy
Diskusjon: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
Emne: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I agree with your assessment that the MT trying to do the same thing
as the user tool; I do not this it makes for a good web experience at
all; multiple browsers running to access a single web application
results in poor usability.  A change to a different design would
require a whole paradigm shift in thinking and designing applications;
a separation of the model and the view, if you will.  It opens the
doors to a lot of things, but would be a drastically different way to
look at things as compared to the way people are accustomed to
thinking about Remedy when they design applications today.

Axton

These are my opinions only and do not represent those of BMC Software, Inc.

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:44 PM, John Sundberg
 wrote:
> I feel it is a great move.
>
> BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps
> (alerts/reporting/macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those tools
> already exist -- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.
>
> (I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for our
> new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT)
> (I will guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily 50,000
> tools exist for web stuff)
>
>
> Alerts -- growl/rss
> Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all the
> time
> Macros -- greasemonkey
> Printing -- ??? -- I forget what I use - but it works just fine.
>
> OLE/DDE -- client back to server -- back to client stuff -- would be doable
> -- if not you can solve the problem some other way altogether.
>
> I personally don't think the MT is a good web strategy -- but it too will
> have to change -- and again -- that is a good thing.
> (precache and very dynamic screens have issues and always will) -- more
> rigid screens will greatly improve things (FYI -- what Kinetic Request does)
>
> The MT is currently tasked with doing the same thing as the WUT but via the
> web. I think the whole paradigm is ripe for change. The WUT is a very "raw"
> experience and you can get quite close to the "database" (developers think
> that is good/power users think that is good/avg person is confused). I think
> the tools and applications need to raise up a bit and be more process
> oriented and more application oriented -- which by nature avoids the needs
> for things like:
> "saved searches"
> "copy to new"
> "clear"
> 
> all those above functions should be done by the application and not the
> "user tool" -- because a saved search or a copy to new is really application
> specific. Example:
>
> copy to new -- do you want to copy all 100 fields (hidden ones) -- or only 5
> fields -- the current will do all.
> saved search --  searches are just criteria -- the app should be able to
> provide that
> clear -- this has always sucked!!!
>
>
> I like that BMC is attempting to move the product in a direction -- good for
> them.
>
>
> You can't make everybody happ

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Carey Matthew Black]

Trond (all),

There are other cheaper/better reporting tools out there already.

It would not require a lot of work for BMC to incorporate something
like JasperReports (http://jasperreports.sourceforge.net) into the AR
System product too. (And there are other options as well. Maybe a more
extreme option would be for BMC to leverage a package deal where
having an AR System license also means you get a special, maybe
specifically limited to AR System, BOXI install/license too. Or maybe
just open up a good extension point for the community to build the
integrations to JasperReports, or BRIT [
http://www.eclipse.org/birt/phoenix/ ]  or DataVision [
http://datavision.sourceforge.net/ ] or any number of other possible
reporting tool choices. )

BTW: One of the best first steps to allow almost all of those other
reporting tools would be to make an AR System JDBC driver much like
they have made the [GRRR ... Windows only] ODBC driver so far.


While I am sure these areas of functionality/budgeting are very
important to BMC AR System customers, I can only expect that BMC will
have a plan before these concerns become problems for their customers.

BMC has a few years to do whatever they decide they need to do.

I would also suspect that while v8.0 might be the last release of the
User Tool that it will still work against the v8 (+2 version) per the
current software backwards compatibility support model.  However, that
is looking really, really far in the the crystal ball. So who knows
what that future will really hold. ( I doubt BMC really knows what
their plans are just yet. )


In the short term I would suggest that all customers that are
concerned by this "breaking news" do the usual things:

Let BMC sales reps know about your concerns.
Let BMC tech support people know about your enhancement requests.
Keep an eye to the future, and continue to look for faster, more
accurate and cheaper solutions to your business needs. ( After all you
have a few years to plan what your business needs to do. )

-- 
Carey Matthew Black
BMC Remedy AR System Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)

Love, then teach
Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two.



On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:30 AM, Trond Valen  wrote:
> What about running Crystal Reports reports on the Mid-Tier? Will everyone 
> have to buy BOXI, Crystal Reports or Crystal Reports Developer Advantage 
> licenses?
>
> Trond

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Trond Valen]

What about running Crystal Reports reports on the Mid-Tier? Will everyone have 
to buy BOXI, Crystal Reports or Crystal Reports Developer Advantage licenses?

Trond

-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] På vegne av Axton
Lagt inn: 3. oktober 2009 08:12
Lagt inn i: Remedy
Diskusjon: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
Emne: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I agree with your assessment that the MT trying to do the same thing
as the user tool; I do not this it makes for a good web experience at
all; multiple browsers running to access a single web application
results in poor usability.  A change to a different design would
require a whole paradigm shift in thinking and designing applications;
a separation of the model and the view, if you will.  It opens the
doors to a lot of things, but would be a drastically different way to
look at things as compared to the way people are accustomed to
thinking about Remedy when they design applications today.

Axton

These are my opinions only and do not represent those of BMC Software, Inc.

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:44 PM, John Sundberg
 wrote:
> I feel it is a great move.
>
> BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps
> (alerts/reporting/macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those tools
> already exist -- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.
>
> (I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for our
> new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT)
> (I will guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily 50,000
> tools exist for web stuff)
>
>
> Alerts -- growl/rss
> Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all the
> time
> Macros -- greasemonkey
> Printing -- ??? -- I forget what I use - but it works just fine.
>
> OLE/DDE -- client back to server -- back to client stuff -- would be doable
> -- if not you can solve the problem some other way altogether.
>
> I personally don't think the MT is a good web strategy -- but it too will
> have to change -- and again -- that is a good thing.
> (precache and very dynamic screens have issues and always will) -- more
> rigid screens will greatly improve things (FYI -- what Kinetic Request does)
>
> The MT is currently tasked with doing the same thing as the WUT but via the
> web. I think the whole paradigm is ripe for change. The WUT is a very "raw"
> experience and you can get quite close to the "database" (developers think
> that is good/power users think that is good/avg person is confused). I think
> the tools and applications need to raise up a bit and be more process
> oriented and more application oriented -- which by nature avoids the needs
> for things like:
> "saved searches"
> "copy to new"
> "clear"
> 
> all those above functions should be done by the application and not the
> "user tool" -- because a saved search or a copy to new is really application
> specific. Example:
>
> copy to new -- do you want to copy all 100 fields (hidden ones) -- or only 5
> fields -- the current will do all.
> saved search --  searches are just criteria -- the app should be able to
> provide that
> clear -- this has always sucked!!!
>
>
> I like that BMC is attempting to move the product in a direction -- good for
> them.
>
>
> You can't make everybody happy -- you can only do what you feel is the right
> way -- and sometimes it causes pain -- the goal is long term betterness.
>
> (made that last word up)
>
>
> Lets discuss at WWRUG... sign up here:
> http://kineticsr.kineticdata.com/kinetic/DisplayPage?name=WWRUG2009REGISTRATION
>
> -John
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Jarl Grøneng wrote:
>
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
>
> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
>
> --
> Jarl
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
> Platinum Sponsor:rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"
>
> --
> John David Sundberg
> 235 East 6th Street, Suite 400B
> St. Paul, MN 55101
> (651) 556-0930-work
> (651) 247-6766-cell
> (651) 695-8577-fax
> john.sundb...@kineticdata.com
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
> Platinum Sponsor:rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"
>

__

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Axton]

I agree with your assessment that the MT trying to do the same thing
as the user tool; I do not this it makes for a good web experience at
all; multiple browsers running to access a single web application
results in poor usability.  A change to a different design would
require a whole paradigm shift in thinking and designing applications;
a separation of the model and the view, if you will.  It opens the
doors to a lot of things, but would be a drastically different way to
look at things as compared to the way people are accustomed to
thinking about Remedy when they design applications today.

Axton

These are my opinions only and do not represent those of BMC Software, Inc.

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:44 PM, John Sundberg
 wrote:
> I feel it is a great move.
>
> BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps
> (alerts/reporting/macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those tools
> already exist -- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.
>
> (I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for our
> new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT)
> (I will guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily 50,000
> tools exist for web stuff)
>
>
> Alerts -- growl/rss
> Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all the
> time
> Macros -- greasemonkey
> Printing -- ??? -- I forget what I use - but it works just fine.
>
> OLE/DDE -- client back to server -- back to client stuff -- would be doable
> -- if not you can solve the problem some other way altogether.
>
> I personally don't think the MT is a good web strategy -- but it too will
> have to change -- and again -- that is a good thing.
> (precache and very dynamic screens have issues and always will) -- more
> rigid screens will greatly improve things (FYI -- what Kinetic Request does)
>
> The MT is currently tasked with doing the same thing as the WUT but via the
> web. I think the whole paradigm is ripe for change. The WUT is a very "raw"
> experience and you can get quite close to the "database" (developers think
> that is good/power users think that is good/avg person is confused). I think
> the tools and applications need to raise up a bit and be more process
> oriented and more application oriented -- which by nature avoids the needs
> for things like:
> "saved searches"
> "copy to new"
> "clear"
> 
> all those above functions should be done by the application and not the
> "user tool" -- because a saved search or a copy to new is really application
> specific. Example:
>
> copy to new -- do you want to copy all 100 fields (hidden ones) -- or only 5
> fields -- the current will do all.
> saved search --  searches are just criteria -- the app should be able to
> provide that
> clear -- this has always sucked!!!
>
>
> I like that BMC is attempting to move the product in a direction -- good for
> them.
>
>
> You can't make everybody happy -- you can only do what you feel is the right
> way -- and sometimes it causes pain -- the goal is long term betterness.
>
> (made that last word up)
>
>
> Lets discuss at WWRUG... sign up here:
> http://kineticsr.kineticdata.com/kinetic/DisplayPage?name=WWRUG2009REGISTRATION
>
> -John
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Jarl Grøneng wrote:
>
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
>
> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
>
> --
> Jarl
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
> Platinum Sponsor:rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"
>
> --
> John David Sundberg
> 235 East 6th Street, Suite 400B
> St. Paul, MN 55101
> (651) 556-0930-work
> (651) 247-6766-cell
> (651) 695-8577-fax
> john.sundb...@kineticdata.com
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
> Platinum Sponsor:rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"
>

___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Axton]

When you use the Remedy User Tool, you go to the RUT, then you go to
the ARServer.  When you use the MT, you go to the MT, then you go to
the ARServer.  The location of the client is just different; instead
of your workstation, it is a j2ee platform on a server.

Axton

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Brittain, Mark  wrote:
> **
>
> Here’s something to think about. When you are using the RUT, you are going
> directly to the ARS Server. If the RUT is done away with, you have to go
> from your desk top to the mid-tier to get to the server.  I look at this as
> one more point of failure.  One area that it would help is not having to
> worry if the end users are on the current version/patch of the RUT.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> 
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 3:43 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
>
>
> Thanks for the clarification David. However, I just logged into our
> production system, and the change form (CHG:Infrastructure Change) does not
> show this on search mode. Do I need to enable something? We have ITSM 7.51
>
> Thanks Guillaume
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter,
> David
> Sent: Fri 10/02/09 2:55 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> Ø  This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My
> Searches on the mid-tier
>
> Just a quick correction - yes there are.
>
> BMC Remedy Action Request System 7.5.00 BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide
> 16-Jan-2009
> PDF<http://documents.bmc.com/supportu/documents/53/72/95372/95372.pdf>
>
> Page 144:
>
> "To run a saved, recent, or defined search
> 1 From the toolbar, choose Searches > Run My Searches, Run Recent, or Run
> Defined.
>
> [cid:image003.png@01CA4357.44051540]"
>
>
> -David J. Easter
> Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
> BMC Software, Inc.
>
> The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in
> this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My
> voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a
> spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software,
> Inc.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:45 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> **
>
> This is very very bad.
> Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are
> using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:
>
>>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good
>> performance. What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User
>> client anymore?
>>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript
>> engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a
>> modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC
>> expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any
>> performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.
>
> THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier
> 7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the
> problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.
>
> Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is
> buggy.
>
>
>>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of
>> Remedy User client?
>>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or
>> applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is
>> provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients
>> and report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full
>> functionality will be provided.
>
> This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches
> on the mid-tier
>
> -Guillaume
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl
> Grøneng
> Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected 

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Jason Miller]

That was an interesting discovery when we went to ARS7.5 / RUT 7.1 with ITSM
6 (the 7.1 RUT packages was very delayed in being deployed so we stayed with
it rather then a new build around the time of the server upgrade).
Apparently these were unchecked all along OOTB but when we went to ARS 7.5
and RUT 7.1 the setting was finally enforced in RUT.  Our users could see
they had saved searched but they were grayed out.

We felt kind of stupid when we put in a ticket to BMC and they said yeah,
just uncheck the box for each view.  Who knew it was unchecked all along?

Jason

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Guillaume Rheault wrote:

> **
>
> BTW, the web tool bare was enabled by default. What is not enabled by
> default is the Saved Searches option under the Accessible Menu Items
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Guillaume Rheault
> Sent: Fri 10/02/09 4:17 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG; arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: RE: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> Thanks for the info David!!
> I strongly suggest for BMC to make this the default in the all the
> application forms (change, task, incident, problem, the AST forms, etc) as
> well as the back-end ITSM foundational forms... Our ITSM 7.5.1 installation
> was not an upgrade, it was a fresh install. Most people, including me,
> assume these nice features to be enabled by default... just a thought
>
> Thanks again for your input
>
> Guillaume
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter,
> David
> Sent: Fri 10/02/09 4:02 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> Page 48 describes how to enable (or disable) the toolbar:
>
> Showing or hiding the web toolbar
> You can specify whether the toolbar should be visible or hidden when a form
> is viewed in a browser (and when the form is not a dialog box).
>
> To show or hide the web toolbar
> 1 In BMC Remedy Developer Studio, open the form for which you want to
> specify toolbar visibility.
> 2 Click the tab of the View that you want to customize.
> 3 Click in an empty part of the form to display the view properties.
> 4 In the Properties tab, select the Web Toolbar property, and select Hidden
> or Visible.
> 5 Save the form.
>
>
> -David J. Easter
> Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
> BMC Software, Inc.
>
> The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in
> this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My
> voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a
> spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software,
> Inc.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
> mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG ] On Behalf Of Guillaume
> Rheault
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:43 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> **
>
> Thanks for the clarification David. However, I just logged into our
> production system, and the change form (CHG:Infrastructure Change) does not
> show this on search mode. Do I need to enable something? We have ITSM 7.51
>
> Thanks Guillaume
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter,
> David
> Sent: Fri 10/02/09 2:55 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> Ø  This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My
> Searches on the mid-tier
>
> Just a quick correction - yes there are.
>
> BMC Remedy Action Request System 7.5.00 BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide
> 16-Jan-2009 PDF<
> http://documents.bmc.com/supportu/documents/53/72/95372/95372.pdf>
>
> Page 144:
>
> "To run a saved, recent, or defined search
> 1 From the toolbar, choose Searches > Run My Searches, Run Recent, or Run
> Defined.
>
> [cid:image003.png@01CA4357.44051540]"
>
>
> -David J. Easter
> Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
> BMC Software, Inc.
>
> The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in
> this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My
> voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a
> spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software,
> Inc.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
> mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG ] On Behalf Of Guillaume
> Rheault
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:45 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) 

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Jason Miller]

Another way to look at is you can firewall off your ARS server and only
allow connections for hosts that support the server and the Mid-Tiers.  It
could be a security boost  :)

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Brittain, Mark wrote:

> **
>
> Here’s something to think about. When you are using the RUT, you are going
> directly to the ARS Server. If the RUT is done away with, you have to go
> from your desk top to the mid-tier to get to the server.  I look at this as
> one more point of failure.  One area that it would help is not having to
> worry if the end users are on the current version/patch of the RUT.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] *On Behalf Of *Guillaume Rheault
> *Sent:* Friday, October 02, 2009 3:43 PM
>
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based
> client)
>
>
>
> Thanks for the clarification David. However, I just logged into our
> production system, and the change form (CHG:Infrastructure Change) does not
> show this on search mode. Do I need to enable something? We have ITSM 7.51
>
> Thanks Guillaume
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter,
> David
> Sent: Fri 10/02/09 2:55 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> Ø  This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My
> Searches on the mid-tier
>
> Just a quick correction - yes there are.
>
> BMC Remedy Action Request System 7.5.00 BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide
> 16-Jan-2009 PDF<
> http://documents.bmc.com/supportu/documents/53/72/95372/95372.pdf>
>
> Page 144:
>
> "To run a saved, recent, or defined search
> 1 From the toolbar, choose Searches > Run My Searches, Run Recent, or Run
> Defined.
>
> [cid:image003.png@01CA4357.44051540]"
>
>
> -David J. Easter
> Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
> BMC Software, Inc.
>
> The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in
> this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My
> voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a
> spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software,
> Inc.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
> mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG ] On Behalf Of Guillaume
> Rheault
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:45 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> **
>
> This is very very bad.
> Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer
> are using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:
>
> >I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good
> performance. What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User
> client anymore?
> >o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of
> JavaScript engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00
> running in a modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy
> User. BMC expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed
> any performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.
>
> THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier
> 7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the
> problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.
>
> Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is
> buggy.
>
>
> >Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use
> of Remedy User client?
> >No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or
> applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is
> provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients
> and report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full
> functionality will be provided.
>
> This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches
> on the mid-tier
>
> -Guillaume
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl
> Grøneng
> Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
> of AR System t

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

BTW, the web tool bare was enabled by default. What is not enabled by default 
is the Saved Searches option under the Accessible Menu Items 


-Original Message-
From: Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 4:17 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG; arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: RE: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 
Thanks for the info David!!
I strongly suggest for BMC to make this the default in the all the application 
forms (change, task, incident, problem, the AST forms, etc) as well as the 
back-end ITSM foundational forms... Our ITSM 7.5.1 installation was not an 
upgrade, it was a fresh install. Most people, including me, assume these nice 
features to be enabled by default... just a thought

Thanks again for your input

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter, David
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 4:02 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 
Page 48 describes how to enable (or disable) the toolbar:

Showing or hiding the web toolbar
You can specify whether the toolbar should be visible or hidden when a form is 
viewed in a browser (and when the form is not a dialog box).

To show or hide the web toolbar
1 In BMC Remedy Developer Studio, open the form for which you want to specify 
toolbar visibility.
2 Click the tab of the View that you want to customize.
3 Click in an empty part of the form to display the view properties.
4 In the Properties tab, select the Web Toolbar property, and select Hidden or 
Visible.
5 Save the form.


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:43 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

Thanks for the clarification David. However, I just logged into our production 
system, and the change form (CHG:Infrastructure Change) does not show this on 
search mode. Do I need to enable something? We have ITSM 7.51

Thanks Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter, David
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 2:55 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

Ø  This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches 
on the mid-tier

Just a quick correction - yes there are.

BMC Remedy Action Request System 7.5.00 BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide
16-Jan-2009 
PDF<http://documents.bmc.com/supportu/documents/53/72/95372/95372.pdf>

Page 144:

"To run a saved, recent, or defined search
1 From the toolbar, choose Searches > Run My Searches, Run Recent, or Run 
Defined.

[cid:image003.png@01CA4357.44051540]"


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remed

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

Thanks for the info David!!
I strongly suggest for BMC to make this the default in the all the application 
forms (change, task, incident, problem, the AST forms, etc) as well as the 
back-end ITSM foundational forms... Our ITSM 7.5.1 installation was not an 
upgrade, it was a fresh install. Most people, including me, assume these nice 
features to be enabled by default... just a thought

Thanks again for your input

Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter, David
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 4:02 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 
Page 48 describes how to enable (or disable) the toolbar:

Showing or hiding the web toolbar
You can specify whether the toolbar should be visible or hidden when a form is 
viewed in a browser (and when the form is not a dialog box).

To show or hide the web toolbar
1 In BMC Remedy Developer Studio, open the form for which you want to specify 
toolbar visibility.
2 Click the tab of the View that you want to customize.
3 Click in an empty part of the form to display the view properties.
4 In the Properties tab, select the Web Toolbar property, and select Hidden or 
Visible.
5 Save the form.


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:43 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

Thanks for the clarification David. However, I just logged into our production 
system, and the change form (CHG:Infrastructure Change) does not show this on 
search mode. Do I need to enable something? We have ITSM 7.51

Thanks Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter, David
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 2:55 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

Ø  This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches 
on the mid-tier

Just a quick correction - yes there are.

BMC Remedy Action Request System 7.5.00 BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide
16-Jan-2009 
PDF<http://documents.bmc.com/supportu/documents/53/72/95372/95372.pdf>

Page 144:

"To run a saved, recent, or defined search
1 From the toolbar, choose Searches > Run My Searches, Run Recent, or Run 
Defined.

[cid:image003.png@01CA4357.44051540]"


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functio

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Brittain, Mark]

Here's something to think about. When you are using the RUT, you are going 
directly to the ARS Server. If the RUT is done away with, you have to go from 
your desk top to the mid-tier to get to the server.  I look at this as one more 
point of failure.  One area that it would help is not having to worry if the 
end users are on the current version/patch of the RUT.

Mark


From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 3:43 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


Thanks for the clarification David. However, I just logged into our production 
system, and the change form (CHG:Infrastructure Change) does not show this on 
search mode. Do I need to enable something? We have ITSM 7.51

Thanks Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter, David
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 2:55 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

Ø  This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches 
on the mid-tier

Just a quick correction - yes there are.

BMC Remedy Action Request System 7.5.00 BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide
16-Jan-2009 
PDF<http://documents.bmc.com/supportu/documents/53/72/95372/95372.pdf>

Page 144:

"To run a saved, recent, or defined search
1 From the toolbar, choose Searches > Run My Searches, Run Recent, or Run 
Defined.

[cid:image003.png@01CA4357.44051540]"


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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This e-mail is the property of NaviSite,

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Easter, David]

Page 48 describes how to enable (or disable) the toolbar:

Showing or hiding the web toolbar
You can specify whether the toolbar should be visible or hidden when a form is 
viewed in a browser (and when the form is not a dialog box).

To show or hide the web toolbar
1 In BMC Remedy Developer Studio, open the form for which you want to specify 
toolbar visibility.
2 Click the tab of the View that you want to customize.
3 Click in an empty part of the form to display the view properties.
4 In the Properties tab, select the Web Toolbar property, and select Hidden or 
Visible.
5 Save the form.


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:43 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

Thanks for the clarification David. However, I just logged into our production 
system, and the change form (CHG:Infrastructure Change) does not show this on 
search mode. Do I need to enable something? We have ITSM 7.51

Thanks Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter, David
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 2:55 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

Ø  This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches 
on the mid-tier

Just a quick correction - yes there are.

BMC Remedy Action Request System 7.5.00 BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide
16-Jan-2009 
PDF<http://documents.bmc.com/supportu/documents/53/72/95372/95372.pdf>

Page 144:

"To run a saved, recent, or defined search
1 From the toolbar, choose Searches > Run My Searches, Run Recent, or Run 
Defined.

[cid:image003.png@01CA4357.44051540]"


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist 

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Pargeter, Christie :CO IS]

I found on ITSM 7.0.3 that this was not checked by default for Change but it 
was for Incident.
 
To check this go to the View Properties in the Admin tool, go to the Menu 
Access tab, and you will want to check the Saved Searches box.  Then redeploy 
in the web.  You can see what other options you can add or remove from the web 
client there too.



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:43 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


** 

Thanks for the clarification David. However, I just logged into our production 
system, and the change form (CHG:Infrastructure Change) does not show this on 
search mode. Do I need to enable something? We have ITSM 7.51

Thanks Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter, David
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 2:55 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

Ø  This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches 
on the mid-tier

Just a quick correction - yes there are.

BMC Remedy Action Request System 7.5.00 BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide
16-Jan-2009 
PDF<http://documents.bmc.com/supportu/documents/53/72/95372/95372.pdf>

Page 144:

"To run a saved, recent, or defined search
1 From the toolbar, choose Searches > Run My Searches, Run Recent, or Run 
Defined.

[cid:image003.png@01CA4357.44051540]"


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
Platinum Sponsor:rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"
_Platinum Sponsor: rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_

___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
Platinum Sponsor:rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"



_Platinum Sponsor: rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_

___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
Platinum Sponsor:rmisoluti...@verizon.net ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

Thanks for the clarification David. However, I just logged into our production 
system, and the change form (CHG:Infrastructure Change) does not show this on 
search mode. Do I need to enable something? We have ITSM 7.51

Thanks Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Easter, David
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 2:55 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 
Ø  This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches 
on the mid-tier

Just a quick correction - yes there are.

BMC Remedy Action Request System 7.5.00 BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide
16-Jan-2009 
PDF<http://documents.bmc.com/supportu/documents/53/72/95372/95372.pdf>

Page 144:

"To run a saved, recent, or defined search
1 From the toolbar, choose Searches > Run My Searches, Run Recent, or Run 
Defined.

[cid:image003.png@01CA4357.44051540]"


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

it makes sense... thanks for the clarification John.

Data maintenance is a real pain point, and it is becoming worse with every 
release of the ITSM apps...not really BMC's fault, but because there is more 
data to deal with. A good example is CI based approvals. Creating all these 
approval mappings records is a bit of a punishment :-)

Driving functionality with data (the Remedy way) means the data needs to be 
there in the first place. Anything that can alleviate that is welcome. 

Now if you can come up with Kinetic Data Maintenance, that will be an instant 
winner !!


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of John Sundberg
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 2:50 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 

Guillaume,

I hear you -- and this is how I am thinking about the solution.

Instead of going to a form(data) -- to do a function -- you go to a  
process -- to modify data.

Example:

BMC should come out with an application called "BMC Data Maintenance"  
-- to which you select your form -- and then it gives you raw data  
access to the fields -- to which filters fire etc.

So -- all the stuff like clear, copy to new, recent, blah blah blah --  
could be added to the "BMC Data Maintenance" app

It sort of is like building the common WUT stuff into a specific app  
-- and then gets rid of the common stuff in the rest of the app (clear/ 
copy to new/etc..)

A nice side affect to my approach -- is as you think of new slick ways  
of modding data -- you can apply it to your app -- and then all forms  
would benefit.
(sheeesh -- now I am letting my good ideas out --- ok - I am leaving  
the conversation)

or maybe I should write it

Kinetic Data Maintenance -- nice ring :)






Make sense?


-John






On Oct 2, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Guillaume Rheault wrote:

**
Hi John,

All your points are valid as far using applications.

However, for people that need to do data entry or data maintenance,  
for instance in the ITSM foundational forms (categorizations,  
locations, assignment, etc) , CMDB (attributes that are not  
discovered, as well as equipment tracked that is also not discovered),  
contract records, etc, it is very nice to have these features that are  
"closer to the database" (save searches, recent records, etc, etc).  
You just need to spend some time with the people that do this kind of  
work to see how they work

-Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of John  
Sundberg
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 1:44 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based  
client)

I feel it is a great move.

BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps (alerts/reporting/
macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those tools already exist
-- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.

(I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for
our new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT)
(I will guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily
50,000 tools exist for web stuff)


Alerts -- growl/rss
Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all
the time
Macros -- greasemonkey
Printing -- ??? -- I forget what I use - but it works just fine.

OLE/DDE -- client back to server -- back to client stuff -- would be
doable -- if not you can solve the problem some other way altogether.

I personally don't think the MT is a good web strategy -- but it too
will have to change -- and again -- that is a good thing.
(precache and very dynamic screens have issues and always will) --
more rigid screens will greatly improve things (FYI -- what Kinetic
Request does)

The MT is currently tasked with doing the same thing as the WUT but
via the web. I think the whole paradigm is ripe for change. The WUT is
a very "raw" experience and you can get quite close to the
"database" (developers think that is good/power users think that is
good/avg person is confused). I think the tools and applications need
to raise up a bit and be more process oriented and more application
oriented -- which by nature avoids the needs for things like:
"saved searches"
"copy to new"
"clear"

all those above functions should be done by the application and not
the "user tool" -- because a saved search or a copy to new is really
application specific. Example:

copy to new -- do you want to copy all 100 fields (hidden ones) -- or
only 5 fields -- the current will do all.
saved search --  searches are just criteria -- the app should be able
to provide that
clear -- this has always sucked!!!


I like that BMC is attempting to move the product in a direction --
good for them.


You can't make everybody happy -- you can only do what you feel is the
right way -- and sometimes it causes pa

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Easter, David]

Ø  This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches 
on the mid-tier

Just a quick correction - yes there are.

BMC Remedy Action Request System 7.5.00 BMC Remedy Mid Tier Guide
16-Jan-2009 
PDF<http://documents.bmc.com/supportu/documents/53/72/95372/95372.pdf>

Page 144:

"To run a saved, recent, or defined search
1 From the toolbar, choose Searches > Run My Searches, Run Recent, or Run 
Defined.

[cid:image003.png@01CA4357.44051540]"


-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Solution Strategy and Development
BMC Software, Inc.

The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this 
E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc.  My voluntary 
participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, 
liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:45 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

**

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I've heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can't use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy.


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[John Sundberg]

Guillaume,

I hear you -- and this is how I am thinking about the solution.

Instead of going to a form(data) -- to do a function -- you go to a  
process -- to modify data.


Example:

BMC should come out with an application called "BMC Data Maintenance"  
-- to which you select your form -- and then it gives you raw data  
access to the fields -- to which filters fire etc.


So -- all the stuff like clear, copy to new, recent, blah blah blah --  
could be added to the "BMC Data Maintenance" app


It sort of is like building the common WUT stuff into a specific app  
-- and then gets rid of the common stuff in the rest of the app (clear/ 
copy to new/etc..)


A nice side affect to my approach -- is as you think of new slick ways  
of modding data -- you can apply it to your app -- and then all forms  
would benefit.
(sheeesh -- now I am letting my good ideas out --- ok - I am leaving  
the conversation)


or maybe I should write it

Kinetic Data Maintenance -- nice ring :)






Make sense?


-John






On Oct 2, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Guillaume Rheault wrote:

**
Hi John,

All your points are valid as far using applications.

However, for people that need to do data entry or data maintenance,  
for instance in the ITSM foundational forms (categorizations,  
locations, assignment, etc) , CMDB (attributes that are not  
discovered, as well as equipment tracked that is also not discovered),  
contract records, etc, it is very nice to have these features that are  
"closer to the database" (save searches, recent records, etc, etc).  
You just need to spend some time with the people that do this kind of  
work to see how they work


-Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of John  
Sundberg

Sent: Fri 10/02/09 1:44 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based  
client)


I feel it is a great move.

BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps (alerts/reporting/
macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those tools already exist
-- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.

(I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for
our new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT)
(I will guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily
50,000 tools exist for web stuff)


Alerts -- growl/rss
Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all
the time
Macros -- greasemonkey
Printing -- ??? -- I forget what I use - but it works just fine.

OLE/DDE -- client back to server -- back to client stuff -- would be
doable -- if not you can solve the problem some other way altogether.

I personally don't think the MT is a good web strategy -- but it too
will have to change -- and again -- that is a good thing.
(precache and very dynamic screens have issues and always will) --
more rigid screens will greatly improve things (FYI -- what Kinetic
Request does)

The MT is currently tasked with doing the same thing as the WUT but
via the web. I think the whole paradigm is ripe for change. The WUT is
a very "raw" experience and you can get quite close to the
"database" (developers think that is good/power users think that is
good/avg person is confused). I think the tools and applications need
to raise up a bit and be more process oriented and more application
oriented -- which by nature avoids the needs for things like:
"saved searches"
"copy to new"
"clear"

all those above functions should be done by the application and not
the "user tool" -- because a saved search or a copy to new is really
application specific. Example:

copy to new -- do you want to copy all 100 fields (hidden ones) -- or
only 5 fields -- the current will do all.
saved search --  searches are just criteria -- the app should be able
to provide that
clear -- this has always sucked!!!


I like that BMC is attempting to move the product in a direction --
good for them.


You can't make everybody happy -- you can only do what you feel is the
right way -- and sometimes it causes pain -- the goal is long term
betterness.

(made that last word up)


Lets discuss at WWRUG... sign up here: 
http://kineticsr.kineticdata.com/kinetic/DisplayPage?name=WWRUG2009REGISTRATION

-John




On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Jarl Grøneng wrote:

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

___
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Are"

--
John David Sundberg
235 East 6th Street, Suite 400B
St. Paul, MN 55101
(651) 556-0930-work
(651) 247-6766-cell
(651) 695-8577-fax
john.sundb..

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Warren Baltimore]

Deep Breath everyone!

It's not going away tommorow.  Heck, it's not even going away in 2-3 years!
BMC didn't get where they are today by being complete idiots (I know, it
doesn't always seem that way).  They are very aware of the current
limitations that the midtier can have.  There are a lot of bugs to figure
out I'm sure.  I for one would welcome this (IF it is done right).  A thin
client can offer so many positives in any shop.  Just remember, when it is
released, neither the thin client or the browser(s) it runs on will be the
same as they are today

Warren

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Jason Miller  wrote:

> ** I thought about that originally as a possible solution and technically
> you could make it work. You would lose functionality that the ARS server
> provides and would have to manually build it into your reports, reporting db
> (like a universe, etc) or into the db (views, etc).  ARS is built do offer
> up meta-data where appropriate.
>
> Examples would be:
>   - Form and field permissions would not be enforced.  Users would see all
> fields and forms.
>   - Row level permission would not be enforced.  This could be huge now
> with multitenancy in ITSM 7
>   - Selection fields would show their numeric value
>   - Date/Time, Date, and Time fields would show their db value which would
> have to be converted to be human readable
>
> I think most of this could be address by an BI suite (BOXI, Cognos, etc)
> but now you are looking at having a developer just to manage a BI suite and
> reports.  With the AR ODBC any of my users that have Crystal Reports or even
> MS Access can use the AR ODBC driver to gather data without my assistance.
>
> Jason
>
>  On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Scott Hammons <
> shamm...@aisconsulting.net> wrote:
>
>> They will probably move from using the ODBC driver to JDBC drivers for the
>> DB platforms.  Most enterprise web based applications do this already.
>>
>> Just my .02.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [> Answers Are"_
>
>


-- 
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
410-533-5367

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

Hi John,

All your points are valid as far using applications.

However, for people that need to do data entry or data maintenance, for 
instance in the ITSM foundational forms (categorizations, locations, 
assignment, etc) , CMDB (attributes that are not discovered, as well as 
equipment tracked that is also not discovered), contract records, etc, it is 
very nice to have these features that are "closer to the database" (save 
searches, recent records, etc, etc). You just need to spend some time with the 
people that do this kind of work to see how they work

-Guillaume

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of John Sundberg
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 1:44 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 
I feel it is a great move.

BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps (alerts/reporting/ 
macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those tools already exist  
-- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.

(I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for  
our new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT)
(I will guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily  
50,000 tools exist for web stuff)


Alerts -- growl/rss
Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all  
the time
Macros -- greasemonkey
Printing -- ??? -- I forget what I use - but it works just fine.

OLE/DDE -- client back to server -- back to client stuff -- would be  
doable -- if not you can solve the problem some other way altogether.

I personally don't think the MT is a good web strategy -- but it too  
will have to change -- and again -- that is a good thing.
(precache and very dynamic screens have issues and always will) --  
more rigid screens will greatly improve things (FYI -- what Kinetic  
Request does)

The MT is currently tasked with doing the same thing as the WUT but  
via the web. I think the whole paradigm is ripe for change. The WUT is  
a very "raw" experience and you can get quite close to the  
"database" (developers think that is good/power users think that is  
good/avg person is confused). I think the tools and applications need  
to raise up a bit and be more process oriented and more application  
oriented -- which by nature avoids the needs for things like:
"saved searches"
"copy to new"
"clear"

all those above functions should be done by the application and not  
the "user tool" -- because a saved search or a copy to new is really  
application specific. Example:

copy to new -- do you want to copy all 100 fields (hidden ones) -- or  
only 5 fields -- the current will do all.
saved search --  searches are just criteria -- the app should be able  
to provide that
clear -- this has always sucked!!!


I like that BMC is attempting to move the product in a direction --  
good for them.


You can't make everybody happy -- you can only do what you feel is the  
right way -- and sometimes it causes pain -- the goal is long term  
betterness.

(made that last word up)


Lets discuss at WWRUG... sign up here: 
http://kineticsr.kineticdata.com/kinetic/DisplayPage?name=WWRUG2009REGISTRATION

-John




On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Jarl Grøneng wrote:

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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Are"

--
John David Sundberg
235 East 6th Street, Suite 400B
St. Paul, MN 55101
(651) 556-0930-work
(651) 247-6766-cell
(651) 695-8577-fax
john.sundb...@kineticdata.com

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Jason Miller]

I thought about that originally as a possible solution and technically you
could make it work. You would lose functionality that the ARS server
provides and would have to manually build it into your reports, reporting db
(like a universe, etc) or into the db (views, etc).  ARS is built do offer
up meta-data where appropriate.

Examples would be:
  - Form and field permissions would not be enforced.  Users would see all
fields and forms.
  - Row level permission would not be enforced.  This could be huge now with
multitenancy in ITSM 7
  - Selection fields would show their numeric value
  - Date/Time, Date, and Time fields would show their db value which would
have to be converted to be human readable

I think most of this could be address by an BI suite (BOXI, Cognos, etc) but
now you are looking at having a developer just to manage a BI suite and
reports.  With the AR ODBC any of my users that have Crystal Reports or even
MS Access can use the AR ODBC driver to gather data without my assistance.

Jason

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Scott Hammons
wrote:

> They will probably move from using the ODBC driver to JDBC drivers for the
> DB platforms.  Most enterprise web based applications do this already.
>
> Just my .02.
>
> Scott
>
>
> 
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [arsl...@arslist.org]
> On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng [jarl.gron...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 1:05 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> Did not think about ODBC, but ODBC can be an issue for a lot of
> customers...
>
> --
> Jarl
>
> 2009/10/2 Kemes, Lisa :
> > Our senior developer Dave Shellman was also asking about the ODBC driver
> that gets instlaled with the client.  I guess that's going away.  A LOT of
> people use this...
> >
> >
> > Lisa
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Sokol, Brian
> > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:57 PM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
> >
> > Our power users who live in remedy all day will have a real problem with
> this. I agree with Chris. We also create many ad hoc reports that we export
> to excel. This is simple on the fat client but difficult on the web.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of strauss
> > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:35 PM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
> >
> > I guess that might be the end of the line for us - as long as the central
> helpdesk needs to have a support console and multiple tickets open
> simultaneously for a combination of walk-in customers, callers, and
> resolution transactions, the current crop of web browsers are completely
> inadequate for that purpose.  We had them try to use the 7.1 mid-tier when
> we migrated to 7.x last year, and they gave it a full thumbs down on
> everything except speed.  The helpdesk manager (and we in the admin shop)
> are fairly dependent on the rapid export of ad-hoc reported data to .csv for
> manipulation in Excel, and I don't see the web interface being adequate for
> that anytime soon.  There will have to be some revolutionary changes in both
> web browsers and the mid-tier before abandoning the User Tool is anything
> but a pipe dream.
> >
> > Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
> > Call Tracking Administration Manager
> > University of North Texas Computing & IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> >> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
> >> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
> >> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> >> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
> >>
> >> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
> >> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
> >>
> >> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jarl
> >>
> >> __
> >> _
> >> 
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum
> >> Sponsor:rmisoluti...@verizon.net 
> >> ARSlist: "Where the Answer

Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[John Sundberg]

I feel it is a great move.

BMC (or others) will produce tools to fill gaps (alerts/reporting/ 
macros/printing) blah blah blah. In fact all those tools already exist  
-- they just may not yet be incorporated/integrated.


(I would venture to say that there are already 1000x as many tools for  
our new user tool (the web) as exist for our current WUT)
(I will guess approx 50 tools exist for the current WUT -- easily  
50,000 tools exist for web stuff)



Alerts -- growl/rss
Reporting -- 100+ flash strategies + HTML5 SVG is getting better all  
the time

Macros -- greasemonkey
Printing -- ??? -- I forget what I use - but it works just fine.

OLE/DDE -- client back to server -- back to client stuff -- would be  
doable -- if not you can solve the problem some other way altogether.


I personally don't think the MT is a good web strategy -- but it too  
will have to change -- and again -- that is a good thing.
(precache and very dynamic screens have issues and always will) --  
more rigid screens will greatly improve things (FYI -- what Kinetic  
Request does)


The MT is currently tasked with doing the same thing as the WUT but  
via the web. I think the whole paradigm is ripe for change. The WUT is  
a very "raw" experience and you can get quite close to the  
"database" (developers think that is good/power users think that is  
good/avg person is confused). I think the tools and applications need  
to raise up a bit and be more process oriented and more application  
oriented -- which by nature avoids the needs for things like:

"saved searches"
"copy to new"
"clear"

all those above functions should be done by the application and not  
the "user tool" -- because a saved search or a copy to new is really  
application specific. Example:


copy to new -- do you want to copy all 100 fields (hidden ones) -- or  
only 5 fields -- the current will do all.
saved search --  searches are just criteria -- the app should be able  
to provide that

clear -- this has always sucked!!!


I like that BMC is attempting to move the product in a direction --  
good for them.



You can't make everybody happy -- you can only do what you feel is the  
right way -- and sometimes it causes pain -- the goal is long term  
betterness.


(made that last word up)


Lets discuss at WWRUG... sign up here: 
http://kineticsr.kineticdata.com/kinetic/DisplayPage?name=WWRUG2009REGISTRATION

-John




On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Jarl Grøneng wrote:

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Scott Hammons]

They will probably move from using the ODBC driver to JDBC drivers for the DB 
platforms.  Most enterprise web based applications do this already.

Just my .02.

Scott



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [arsl...@arslist.org] On 
Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng [jarl.gron...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 1:05 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

Did not think about ODBC, but ODBC can be an issue for a lot of customers...

--
Jarl

2009/10/2 Kemes, Lisa :
> Our senior developer Dave Shellman was also asking about the ODBC driver that 
> gets instlaled with the client.  I guess that's going away.  A LOT of people 
> use this...
>
>
> Lisa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Sokol, Brian
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:57 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> Our power users who live in remedy all day will have a real problem with 
> this. I agree with Chris. We also create many ad hoc reports that we export 
> to excel. This is simple on the fat client but difficult on the web.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of strauss
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:35 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> I guess that might be the end of the line for us - as long as the central 
> helpdesk needs to have a support console and multiple tickets open 
> simultaneously for a combination of walk-in customers, callers, and 
> resolution transactions, the current crop of web browsers are completely 
> inadequate for that purpose.  We had them try to use the 7.1 mid-tier when we 
> migrated to 7.x last year, and they gave it a full thumbs down on everything 
> except speed.  The helpdesk manager (and we in the admin shop) are fairly 
> dependent on the rapid export of ad-hoc reported data to .csv for 
> manipulation in Excel, and I don't see the web interface being adequate for 
> that anytime soon.  There will have to be some revolutionary changes in both 
> web browsers and the mid-tier before abandoning the User Tool is anything but 
> a pipe dream.
>
> Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
> Call Tracking Administration Manager
> University of North Texas Computing & IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>>
>> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
>> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
>>
>> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
>>
>> --
>> Jarl
>>
>> __
>> _
>> 
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Mark Lev]

My 2 cents worth;

I think of lot of what people are saying are valid concerns.  But before
I push Remedy off the cliff, I would like to see what BMC presents in
the Mid-Tier only version.  They must be aware of most of these issues,
and certainly as we get closer to the reality of this happening,
technology will have advanced, and many may be addressed.

Seeing this is likely years away, I think we shouldn't hit the panic
button just yet :)

Mark

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[LJ Longwing]

What is the issue with stickiness?it's required, but I've never
considered that an issue.

  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)


** There is also the issue of mid-tier load balancing "stickiness", which,
to my knowledge, has not yet been resolved.

Rick


On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, LJ Longwing  wrote:


They've been saying it for at least a yearwe knew it was comingso
the timeline is 8.0 comes out early next year 2010then each major
release is usually about a year apartwhich means that 8.0 will be r-2 in
about 2012...and unsupported some time around 2013which means you now
have an approximately 4 year timeline to get your butt off of a 'legacy'
technology.I don't think that's too much to ask.

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Sanford, Claire
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:33 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

Big Mistake!

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release of AR
System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl


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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[LJ Longwing]

I practically refuse to use the web client personallyI personally prefer
to use the fat client alsoand I do the exact same thing with reports and
such, but I can completely understand their standpoint, and won't say that
you 'CANT' do itit just requires a change of process...which is often
difficult, but still possibleremember the uproar about the Developer
Studio? Same thing in my mind...I'm sure the current gap between user and
web will be closed in the next year and a half before the version post 8.0
is released. 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Sokol, Brian
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

Our power users who live in remedy all day will have a real problem with
this. I agree with Chris. We also create many ad hoc reports that we export
to excel. This is simple on the fat client but difficult on the web. 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of strauss
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I guess that might be the end of the line for us - as long as the central
helpdesk needs to have a support console and multiple tickets open
simultaneously for a combination of walk-in customers, callers, and
resolution transactions, the current crop of web browsers are completely
inadequate for that purpose.  We had them try to use the 7.1 mid-tier when
we migrated to 7.x last year, and they gave it a full thumbs down on
everything except speed.  The helpdesk manager (and we in the admin shop)
are fairly dependent on the rapid export of ad-hoc reported data to .csv for
manipulation in Excel, and I don't see the web interface being adequate for
that anytime soon.  There will have to be some revolutionary changes in both
web browsers and the mid-tier before abandoning the User Tool is anything
but a pipe dream.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
> 
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release 
> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
> 
> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
> 
> --
> Jarl
> 
> __
> _
> 
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum 
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Jarl Grøneng]

Did not think about ODBC, but ODBC can be an issue for a lot of customers...

--
Jarl

2009/10/2 Kemes, Lisa :
> Our senior developer Dave Shellman was also asking about the ODBC driver that 
> gets instlaled with the client.  I guess that's going away.  A LOT of people 
> use this...
>
>
> Lisa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Sokol, Brian
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:57 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> Our power users who live in remedy all day will have a real problem with 
> this. I agree with Chris. We also create many ad hoc reports that we export 
> to excel. This is simple on the fat client but difficult on the web.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of strauss
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:35 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> I guess that might be the end of the line for us - as long as the central 
> helpdesk needs to have a support console and multiple tickets open 
> simultaneously for a combination of walk-in customers, callers, and 
> resolution transactions, the current crop of web browsers are completely 
> inadequate for that purpose.  We had them try to use the 7.1 mid-tier when we 
> migrated to 7.x last year, and they gave it a full thumbs down on everything 
> except speed.  The helpdesk manager (and we in the admin shop) are fairly 
> dependent on the rapid export of ad-hoc reported data to .csv for 
> manipulation in Excel, and I don't see the web interface being adequate for 
> that anytime soon.  There will have to be some revolutionary changes in both 
> web browsers and the mid-tier before abandoning the User Tool is anything but 
> a pipe dream.
>
> Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
> Call Tracking Administration Manager
> University of North Texas Computing & IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>>
>> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
>> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
>>
>> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
>>
>> --
>> Jarl
>>
>> __
>> _
>> 
>> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Jason Miller]

I didn't think about that.  That will be a huge issue!

I can't imagine ODBC going away.  My guess is they will provide an ODBC
components installer or some other method of ODBC connectivity.  Let's hope
I am not wrong.

Jason

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Kemes, Lisa
wrote:

> Our senior developer Dave Shellman was also asking about the ODBC driver
> that gets instlaled with the client.  I guess that's going away.  A LOT of
> people use this...
>
>
> Lisa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Sokol, Brian
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:57 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> Our power users who live in remedy all day will have a real problem with
> this. I agree with Chris. We also create many ad hoc reports that we export
> to excel. This is simple on the fat client but difficult on the web.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of strauss
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:35 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> I guess that might be the end of the line for us - as long as the central
> helpdesk needs to have a support console and multiple tickets open
> simultaneously for a combination of walk-in customers, callers, and
> resolution transactions, the current crop of web browsers are completely
> inadequate for that purpose.  We had them try to use the 7.1 mid-tier when
> we migrated to 7.x last year, and they gave it a full thumbs down on
> everything except speed.  The helpdesk manager (and we in the admin shop)
> are fairly dependent on the rapid export of ad-hoc reported data to .csv for
> manipulation in Excel, and I don't see the web interface being adequate for
> that anytime soon.  There will have to be some revolutionary changes in both
> web browsers and the mid-tier before abandoning the User Tool is anything
> but a pipe dream.
>
> Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
> Call Tracking Administration Manager
> University of North Texas Computing & IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> > [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
> > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
> >
> > BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
> > of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
> >
> > http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
> >
> > --
> > Jarl
> >
> > __
> > _
> > 
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Kemes, Lisa]

Our senior developer Dave Shellman was also asking about the ODBC driver that 
gets instlaled with the client.  I guess that's going away.  A LOT of people 
use this... 


Lisa

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Sokol, Brian
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:57 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

Our power users who live in remedy all day will have a real problem with this. 
I agree with Chris. We also create many ad hoc reports that we export to excel. 
This is simple on the fat client but difficult on the web. 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of strauss
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I guess that might be the end of the line for us - as long as the central 
helpdesk needs to have a support console and multiple tickets open 
simultaneously for a combination of walk-in customers, callers, and resolution 
transactions, the current crop of web browsers are completely inadequate for 
that purpose.  We had them try to use the 7.1 mid-tier when we migrated to 7.x 
last year, and they gave it a full thumbs down on everything except speed.  The 
helpdesk manager (and we in the admin shop) are fairly dependent on the rapid 
export of ad-hoc reported data to .csv for manipulation in Excel, and I don't 
see the web interface being adequate for that anytime soon.  There will have to 
be some revolutionary changes in both web browsers and the mid-tier before 
abandoning the User Tool is anything but a pipe dream.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
> 
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release 
> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
> 
> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
> 
> --
> Jarl
> 
> __
> _
> 
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum 
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Sokol, Brian]

Our power users who live in remedy all day will have a real problem with this. 
I agree with Chris. We also create many ad hoc reports that we export to excel. 
This is simple on the fat client but difficult on the web. 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of strauss
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I guess that might be the end of the line for us - as long as the central 
helpdesk needs to have a support console and multiple tickets open 
simultaneously for a combination of walk-in customers, callers, and resolution 
transactions, the current crop of web browsers are completely inadequate for 
that purpose.  We had them try to use the 7.1 mid-tier when we migrated to 7.x 
last year, and they gave it a full thumbs down on everything except speed.  The 
helpdesk manager (and we in the admin shop) are fairly dependent on the rapid 
export of ad-hoc reported data to .csv for manipulation in Excel, and I don't 
see the web interface being adequate for that anytime soon.  There will have to 
be some revolutionary changes in both web browsers and the mid-tier before 
abandoning the User Tool is anything but a pipe dream.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
> 
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release 
> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
> 
> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
> 
> --
> Jarl
> 
> __
> _
> 
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum 
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Rick Cook]

There is also the issue of mid-tier load balancing "stickiness", which, to
my knowledge, has not yet been resolved.

Rick

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, LJ Longwing  wrote:

> They've been saying it for at least a yearwe knew it was comingso
> the timeline is 8.0 comes out early next year 2010then each major
> release is usually about a year apartwhich means that 8.0 will be r-2
> in
> about 2012...and unsupported some time around 2013which means you now
> have an approximately 4 year timeline to get your butt off of a 'legacy'
> technology.I don't think that's too much to ask.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Sanford, Claire
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:33 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> Big Mistake!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
>
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release of AR
> System to include the Remedy User client.
>
> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
>
> --
> Jarl
>
>
> 
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Jason Miller]

Same here.  Most of our customer should be fine in the MT but I am concerned
about our Help Desk and Account Management teams that spend all day in
Remedy between many forms and need the ability to have Remedy ready and be
able to navigate quickly and easily.  My other concern is the timeout on the
web.  While it is great for most users, the HD/AM could have complex tickets
open all day while they work on them.  Timing out say after coming back from
lunch and having to reopen their requests is going to be painful.  There is
definitely some room for behavior changes, design enhancements and better
use of display only console forms but some aspects are still going to a bit
more difficult.

I hope that BMC is considering a way to control the timeout based on
groups?  Granted we could have interval Active Links based on groups but you
would still need to have the correct form(s) open to keep a session alive
with the AL

Change is hard :)

Jason

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:34 AM, strauss  wrote:

> I guess that might be the end of the line for us - as long as the central
> helpdesk needs to have a support console and multiple tickets open
> simultaneously for a combination of walk-in customers, callers, and
> resolution transactions, the current crop of web browsers are completely
> inadequate for that purpose.  We had them try to use the 7.1 mid-tier when
> we migrated to 7.x last year, and they gave it a full thumbs down on
> everything except speed.  The helpdesk manager (and we in the admin shop)
> are fairly dependent on the rapid export of ad-hoc reported data to .csv for
> manipulation in Excel, and I don't see the web interface being adequate for
> that anytime soon.  There will have to be some revolutionary changes in both
> web browsers and the mid-tier before abandoning the User Tool is anything
> but a pipe dream.
>
> Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
> Call Tracking Administration Manager
> University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
> http://itsm.unt.edu/
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> > [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
> > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
> >
> > BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
> > of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
> >
> > http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
> >
> > --
> > Jarl
> >
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[LJ Longwing]

They've been saying it for at least a yearwe knew it was comingso
the timeline is 8.0 comes out early next year 2010then each major
release is usually about a year apartwhich means that 8.0 will be r-2 in
about 2012...and unsupported some time around 2013which means you now
have an approximately 4 year timeline to get your butt off of a 'legacy'
technology.I don't think that's too much to ask.

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Sanford, Claire
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:33 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

Big Mistake! 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release of AR
System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl


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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Guillaume Rheault]

This is very very bad.
Here are some statements that are not true in our environment, where wer are 
using RS 7.5, Mid-tier, ITSM 7.5.1:

>I’ve heard that use of a thick client is the only way to get good performance. 
>What will >happen to performance if I can’t use the Remedy User client anymore?
>o Due to advances in web technologies, especially in the area of JavaScript 
>engines, the >performance of the web client in AR System 7.5.00 running in a 
>modern browser equals or >exceeds the performance of BMC Remedy User. BMC 
>expects, therefore, that any future client >will meet or exceed any 
>performance characteristics of the existing Remedy User client.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Remedy user tool 7.5 performs faster than mid-tier 
7.5/browser. Granted IE 7.x is a piece of crap, so that's a big part of the 
problem; However, the Remedy fat client still outperforms even Firefox 3.x.

Pre-caching in ITSM 7.5.1 and Mid-Tier 7.5 is a major headache and it is buggy. 


>Will I lose any functionality using the new client as compared to my use of 
>Remedy User client?
>No. The future client provided will enable full usability of AR System or 
>applications built >on AR System. The manner in which such usability is 
>provided may change (e.g. OLE/DDE are not >available on web-based clients and 
>report macros are accomplished through saved searches) but >full functionality 
>will be provided.

This is not true. For instance, there are no Recent Searches or My Searches on 
the mid-tier

-Guillaume


-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Fri 10/02/09 12:22 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
 
BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Mike Pugh]

To be fair, just because the AR Server mid-tier is a POS doesn't mean current 
web browsers aren't ready or capable of handling a well designed ticketing 
system.



Mike Pugh
Senior Software Engineer

AMERICAN SYSTEMS
13990 Parkeast Circle
Chantilly, VA 20151
www.AmericanSystems.com

phone: (703) 968-5265
mobile: (571) 296-7485
mike.p...@americansystems.com

"Contractor of the Year - 5th Annual Greater Washington Government Contractor 
Awards"



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-Original Message-

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of strauss
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 12:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

I guess that might be the end of the line for us - as long as the central 
helpdesk needs to have a support console and multiple tickets open 
simultaneously for a combination of walk-in customers, callers, and resolution 
transactions, the current crop of web browsers are completely inadequate for 
that purpose.  We had them try to use the 7.1 mid-tier when we migrated to 7.x 
last year, and they gave it a full thumbs down on everything except speed.  The 
helpdesk manager (and we in the admin shop) are fairly dependent on the rapid 
export of ad-hoc reported data to .csv for manipulation in Excel, and I don't 
see the web interface being adequate for that anytime soon.  There will have to 
be some revolutionary changes in both web browsers and the mid-tier before 
abandoning the User Tool is anything but a pipe dream.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
> 
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
> 
> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
> 
> --
> Jarl
> 
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[strauss]

I guess that might be the end of the line for us - as long as the central 
helpdesk needs to have a support console and multiple tickets open 
simultaneously for a combination of walk-in customers, callers, and resolution 
transactions, the current crop of web browsers are completely inadequate for 
that purpose.  We had them try to use the 7.1 mid-tier when we migrated to 7.x 
last year, and they gave it a full thumbs down on everything except speed.  The 
helpdesk manager (and we in the admin shop) are fairly dependent on the rapid 
export of ad-hoc reported data to .csv for manipulation in Excel, and I don't 
see the web interface being adequate for that anytime soon.  There will have to 
be some revolutionary changes in both web browsers and the mid-tier before 
abandoning the User Tool is anything but a pipe dream.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Call Tracking Administration Manager
University of North Texas Computing & IT Center
http://itsm.unt.edu/
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)
> 
> BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
> of AR System to include the Remedy User client.
> 
> http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf
> 
> --
> Jarl
> 
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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Sanford, Claire]

Big Mistake! 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:23 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release
of AR System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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Re: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

[Rick Westbrock]

I just saw that myself. That is not good for me since I do a lot of Crystal 
Reports from the WUT and I have yet to get them working in a mid-tier 
environment. Fortunately I have time to work through that since we don't even 
have a release date for v8.0 yet (that I know of).


-Rick 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arsl...@arslist.org] On Behalf Of Jarl Grøneng
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:23 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: End of Life for BMC(R) Remedy(R) User (Windows-based client)

BMC Remedy AR System 8.0.00 is expected to be the last major release of AR 
System to include the Remedy User client.

http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/61/94/106194/106194.pdf

--
Jarl

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