Re: more patently idiotic patents
Andrew Crystall wrote: This is as bad as Unisys attempting to extort people into paying licensing fees for using .GIF images. difference - for making *programs* which can *create* GIF images. That's the difference. I don't see anything immoral in Unisys trying to get some money for something that they legitimately own. What's the problem? Did y'all forget TANSTAAFL? It's stupid, but not bad or extorsion. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
At 05:01 AM 1/24/2003 +, you wrote: On 23 Jan 2003 at 19:33, Deborah Harrell wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/01/10/denmark.environment.ap/ In his 2001 book, The Skeptical Environmentalist, Danish statistician Bjoern Lomborg said concerns about melting ice caps, deforestation, acid rain were exaggerated. He claimed that the global environmental situation was not deteriorating. The book was translated into a dozen languages and generated criticism from environmentalists worldwide. The Danish Committees on Scientific Dishonesty said Tuesday that the 350-page book is clearly in violation of the norms for good scientific behavior. ..precisely what I said on the list during ye great debate and was flamed off the list for several months for doing so. Told. You. So. *bows* Andy You told us? Told us what? That you believe that scientific inquiry should be based on behavior and not facts? That a Committee can pass judgement on a book without disproving any facts in that book? That someone who has a dissenting view shouldn't have a voice? Yeah, you told us. Told us about yourself and your beliefs. Kevin T. Simon wants to speak to you ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 05:51:29AM -0500, Kevin Tarr wrote: You told us? Told us what? That you believe that scientific inquiry should be based on behavior and not facts? That a Committee can pass judgement on a book without disproving any facts in that book? That someone who has a dissenting view shouldn't have a voice? Yeah, you told us. Told us about yourself and your beliefs. Right. The irony is, the people who criticize the man in that manner don't even realize they should be embarrassed. They are calling *him* scientifically dishonest? It would be funny if it weren't so sad. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: more patently idiotic patents
On 24 Jan 2003 at 8:43, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Andrew Crystall wrote: This is as bad as Unisys attempting to extort people into paying licensing fees for using .GIF images. difference - for making *programs* which can *create* GIF images. That's the difference. I don't see anything immoral in Unisys trying to get some money for something that they legitimately own. What's the problem? Did y'all forget TANSTAAFL? It's stupid, but not bad or extorsion. Yes - and the cash for GIF as has as I recall allways been applied by one owner or another. The one for JPG only recently began pressing the case which is annoying (and before JPEG2000 - which is a open standard) is widely accepted. PNG is a pretty good bet these days. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
On 24 Jan 2003 at 5:51, Kevin Tarr wrote: At 05:01 AM 1/24/2003 +, you wrote: On 23 Jan 2003 at 19:33, Deborah Harrell wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/01/10/denmark.environment.ap/ In his 2001 book, The Skeptical Environmentalist, Danish statistician Bjoern Lomborg said concerns about melting ice caps, deforestation, acid rain were exaggerated. He claimed that the global environmental situation was not deteriorating. The book was translated into a dozen languages and generated criticism from environmentalists worldwide. The Danish Committees on Scientific Dishonesty said Tuesday that the 350-page book is clearly in violation of the norms for good scientific behavior. ..precisely what I said on the list during ye great debate and was flamed off the list for several months for doing so. Told. You. So. *bows* Andy You told us? Told us what? That you believe that scientific inquiry should be based on behavior and not facts? That a Committee can pass judgement on a book without disproving any facts in that book? That someone who has a dissenting view shouldn't have a voice? Yeah, you told us. Told us about yourself and your beliefs. No. I TOLD you he was no scientist. That he was a activist for a cause. I TOLD you that there were LEGITIMATE CONCERNS with the way he used data. I TOLD you that his work was NOT sufficiently peer-reviewed. Don't worry, I'll take myself off the list since I must be a moron for daring to hold enviromental beliefs. $fuckmethen. Bye. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 12:24:41PM -, Andrew Crystall wrote: No. I TOLD you he was no scientist. That he was a activist for a cause. I TOLD you that there were LEGITIMATE CONCERNS with the way he used data. I TOLD you that his work was NOT sufficiently peer-reviewed. How about a little less TELLING and a lot more DEMONSTRATING or PROVING? You'll have to forgive us for preferring, on one hand -- a 350 page book full of numbers and point by point rational arguments with supporting evidence and references -- over your blustering and TELLING. I must be a moron for daring to hold enviromental beliefs. That doesn't follow, but I think it would be fair to say that you must be unscientific for failing to scientifically debate your beliefs. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
On 24 Jan 2003 at 7:41, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 12:24:41PM -, Andrew Crystall wrote: No. I TOLD you he was no scientist. That he was a activist for a cause. I TOLD you that there were LEGITIMATE CONCERNS with the way he used data. I TOLD you that his work was NOT sufficiently peer-reviewed. How about a little less TELLING and a lot more DEMONSTRATING or PROVING? You'll have to forgive us for preferring, on one hand -- a 350 page book full of numbers and point by point rational arguments with supporting evidence and references -- over your blustering and TELLING. Excuse me? He's just been slammed because he hasn't used proper scientific methodology. That means the book - as I said at the time - doesn't use all the avaliable data and his interpretations of some of the data is shaky. I'm not an enviromental scientist. I don't pretend to be. Despite his claims to the contrary, he did. I must be a moron for daring to hold enviromental beliefs. That doesn't follow, but I think it would be fair to say that you must be unscientific for failing to scientifically debate your beliefs. When have I done that? Try looking at the archive of the dis... ...never mind. I don't think it's worth discussing it with you because you'll just twist anything I say on the issue to prove that I didn't say anything. Looking at the archive of the discussion you did exactly the same thing then. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 01:03:01PM -, Andrew Crystall wrote: Excuse me? He's just been slammed because he hasn't used proper scientific methodology. Excuse me? Where has it been established scientifically that he hasn't used proper scientific methodology? And where has it been established scientifically that his points, carefully elaborated and in print for all to see, with references, are invalid? That means the book - as I said at the time - doesn't use all the avaliable data and his interpretations of some of the data is shaky. Prove it. If I were to stoop to your level, I might claim that your evaluation doesn't use all available data and your interpretation of the article and book is shaky. I'm not an enviromental scientist. I don't pretend to be. Despite his claims to the contrary, he did. Please cite where he claimed to be an environmental scientist. On the copy of the book I read, his bio says no such thing. I don't think it's worth discussing it with you because you'll just twist anything I say on the issue to prove that I didn't say anything. Everyone twists what you say. Aww, poor Andy. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
On 24 Jan 2003 at 8:07, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 01:03:01PM -, Andrew Crystall wrote: Excuse me? He's just been slammed because he hasn't used proper scientific methodology. Excuse me? Where has it been established scientifically that he hasn't used proper scientific methodology? And where has it been established scientifically that his points, carefully elaborated and in print for all to see, with references, are invalid? Excuse me? Try maybe like...reading the link which started this thread. That means the book - as I said at the time - doesn't use all the avaliable data and his interpretations of some of the data is shaky. Prove it. If I were to stoop to your level, I might claim that your evaluation doesn't use all available data and your interpretation of the article and book is shaky. Excuse me? Try maybe like...reading the link which started this thread. I'm not an enviromental scientist. I don't pretend to be. Despite his claims to the contrary, he did. Please cite where he claimed to be an environmental scientist. On the copy of the book I read, his bio says no such thing. Please read the multitude of online articles... I don't think it's worth discussing it with you because you'll just twist anything I say on the issue to prove that I didn't say anything. Everyone twists what you say. Aww, poor Andy. No...three people on this list in the past have. And you only in this particular debate. (The other two are Jeroen and The Fool, for reference). You are, quite frankly, trolling. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 01:25:49PM -, Andrew Crystall wrote: Excuse me? Where has it been established scientifically that he hasn't used proper scientific methodology? And where has it been established scientifically that his points, carefully elaborated and in print for all to see, with references, are invalid? Excuse me? Try maybe like...reading the link which started this thread. I did, in fact, I read about the Danish Committee's claims a week ago in a couple places. So far, it is hearsay. I have read nothing from Lomborg's opponents but hearsay and smear tactics. Lomborg writes a 350 page book with numbers, point by point rational arguments, and many references. He is attacked with hearsay. If Lomborg's methodology and conclusions are so bad, it should be a simple matter to take it point by point, in a rational manner, and refute it. Please cite where I can read such a refutation. Until then, your comments are just more hearsay. Prove it. If I were to stoop to your level, I might claim that your evaluation doesn't use all available data and your interpretation of the article and book is shaky. Excuse me? Try maybe like...reading the link which started this thread. Do you really consider that proof? If so, I can prove to you that you can become a millionaire in 30 days if you first send me a thousand quid. Please read the multitude of online articles... Please cite even ONE case where Lomborg claims he is an environmental scientist. You are, quite frankly, trolling. That is my standard response to passive-aggressive comments like yours. But let's try something else that could be more productive, if you are up to it. The copy I read of _Skeptical Environmentalist_ was borrowed from the library some time ago, so I propose that I get another copy of the book this weekend, either from the library or the book store, and I will re-read it and make a note of what I consider to be Lomborg's main points. I will summarize the main points here (including Lomborg's references, if applicable). Then we can debate the main points, one at a time. Naturally, I will take Lomborg's side, and you will take the other side. It should be a rational, scientific debate, with references whenever possible. I imagine it will take a few months, since I will probably need a week for each reply, and I imagine you would need the same. We would both be free to receive assistance in the research from others (on or off list), since it would be a big job for one person. Maybe someone would volunteer to referee the debate? What do you say, Andy, can you handle a scientific debate on the issue? -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
On 24 Jan 2003 at 9:05, Erik Reuter wrote: You are, quite frankly, trolling. That is my standard response to passive-aggressive comments like yours. But let's try something else that could be more productive, if you are up to it. Uhh, as I said you don't twist my words on other subjects so no AFAIK it's NOT your standard response. It's a blind spot - at least as far as your responses to me are conerned. The copy I read of _Skeptical Environmentalist_ was borrowed from the library some time ago, so I propose that I get another copy of the book this weekend, either from the library or the book store, and I will re-read it and make a note of what I consider to be Lomborg's main points. I will summarize the main points here (including Lomborg's references, if applicable). Then we can debate the main points, one at a time. Naturally, I will take Lomborg's side, and you will take the other side. It should be a rational, scientific debate, with references whenever possible. I imagine it will take a few months, since I will probably need a week for each reply, and I imagine you would need the same. We would both be free to receive assistance in the research from others (on or off list), since it would be a big job for one person. I simply don't have the time, sorry. Or the inclination to go over ground which would covered far better by an environmental scientist. Which I am not, even if I do have access to a large archive of data. Bear in mind I left biology and have no intention of returning to it. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 02:20:58PM -, Andrew Crystall wrote: I simply don't have the time, sorry. Or the inclination to go over ground which would covered far better by an environmental scientist. Which I am not, even if I do have access to a large archive of data. Translation: 1) Either you (a) don't consider the issue important enough to research it and debate it in a scientific manner, or (b) you don't think your claims could stand up to such scrutiny 2) You either don't have access to scientific research on which to base your claims, or you do have access but are unwilling to use that access, possibly because of 1(a)? 3) You say you are not an environmental scientist and imply here and in earlier emails that anyone who is not an environmental scientist lacks credibility in this area, but you refuse to cite point-by-point refutations of Lomborg's conclusions done by an environmental scientist And yet we should listen when you bluster and TELL us that Lomborg's book of carefully presented data, rational point-by-point arguments, and many references, is all wrong? As you say, excuse me? -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
--- Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/01/10/denmark.environment.ap/ In his 2001 book, The Skeptical Environmentalist, Danish statistician Bjoern Lomborg said concerns about melting ice caps, deforestation, acid rain were exaggerated. He claimed that the global environmental situation was not deteriorating. This whole situation has been extremely troubling, and greatly damages the credibility of the environmental sciences community in my eyes, I'm very sorry to say. First, Lomborg's defense of his work: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110002949 Critics of the environmental movement often argue that the science itself is biased because a combination of political pressure, environmental fervor, and funding pressures cause environmental scientists to consistently come to Green conclusions. Until this travesty I had enough faith in the scientific community to reject those arguments as a bad joke. I don't, anymore. Jonah Goldberg had an interesting column in National Review on this subject: http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg011303.asp His point - that distortions in favor of so-called environmental causes are welcomed by the community, but that even a balanced argument - and Lomborg's book strikes me as quite balanced - that contradicts the accepted wisdom of environmental catastrophe will be suppressed - seems to be borne out by these events. The credibility of the scientific community is one of the most valuable assets the world has - squandering it in this way is a crime and a tragedy. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
On 24 Jan 2003 at 9:27, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 02:20:58PM -, Andrew Crystall wrote: I simply don't have the time, sorry. Or the inclination to go over ground which would covered far better by an environmental scientist. Which I am not, even if I do have access to a large archive of data. Translation: 1) Either you (a) don't consider the issue important enough to research it and debate it in a scientific manner, or (b) you don't think your claims could stand up to such scrutiny 2) You either don't have access to scientific research on which to base your claims, or you do have access but are unwilling to use that access, possibly because of 1(a)? 3) You say you are not an environmental scientist and imply here and in earlier emails that anyone who is not an environmental scientist lacks credibility in this area, but you refuse to cite point-by-point refutations of Lomborg's conclusions done by an environmental scientist And yet we should listen when you bluster and TELL us that Lomborg's book of carefully presented data, rational point-by-point arguments, and many references, is all wrong? As you say, excuse me? I said, I DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR THE INCLINATION. That is precisely it. No hidden motives. No I don't think I can do it. No I don't think it's important. No I don't think I know what I'd be arguing. Part of the problem with time is that I couldn't use my usual source, and while I have the access via Athens (JANET) to science direct and similar, I'd have to look my references up and not all of them are public access. I have work due in at several points over the next few weeks. I'm waiting on some results I need now or I wouldn't have time to write E- mails. And I'm not saying it's wrong. A panel of SCIENTISTS has. To that matter, a I feel a good few of his conclusions are right. But not a majority of them. Translation what what you said in similar manner: You're enviromentalist. You suck. You're going to hell. Happy now? Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Helen Thomas on bush
http://dailybreeze.com/content/bog/nmbogert19.html Doubting Thomas offers her press veterans take on state of presidency As veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas signed my program Thursday evening at the Society of Professional Journalists annual awards banquet, I said, First time I ever asked a reporter for an autograph. Thank you, dear, she said, patting my arm. Dont lose heart. Those are words that should be engraved at the bottom of every journalism degree. Thats because Im not sure that any business can cause a heart to be lost or broken faster than this. And Thomas probably knows this better than anyone because she began reporting in 1943. Thomas, in case youve never seen a presidential news conference, is the woman who has haunted every U.S. president since JFK. I cant, in fact, recall a news conference where she wasnt standing hawk-like, grilling men who clearly didnt want to be grilled by anyone, especially a woman. Thomas, by the way, is the woman who said, Thank you, Mr. President, at the end of her very first press conference in 1961. That, I think, is a wonderful tradition that continues to this very day. It shows a little respect to make up for the kind of lack of respect we used to hear from shouters such as Sam Donaldson, the man Ronald Reagan could never quite hear. I attended this Biltmore Hotel banquet for two reasons Thomas and Jean Adelsman. Jean is the retired managing editor of the Breeze and the recipient Thursday evening of a Journalist of the Year award, along with Judy Muller of ABC News, Kitty Felde of KPCCs Talk of the City, Sue Manning of The Associated Press and USC law professor Erwin Chemerinsky. Odd how the world breathlessly awaits the Golden Globes while honors presented the people who watch the politicians or work for a cancer cure are as obscure as lice. In fact, theres a joke about the Golden Globes and the foreign press that presents them. Its said that on ceremony night you cant find a waiter anywhere in town. Take this from someone who once sat at another banquet with the foreign press a group composed of a dry cleaner from Pacoima, a large Eastern European woman in a turban and an Egyptian shoe salesman who spent the evening trying to cadge free drinks. Now that I think of it, they arent much different from domestic journalists. Except when it comes to Thomas, who to the 100 or so people in that room is the very essence of celebrity, a woman who dedicated 60 years at United Press International and Hearst to afflicting the elected. Keep in mind that Thomas came up in the bad old days. Unlike Thursday night, when four of five honorees were women, she spent decades proving herself to the male hierarchy. As late as 1972 she was the only woman on the Nixon China trip. Still, she survives in a Washington press corps that she says has gone soft, accepting presidential spin without question. There was a lot of that in her speech, this talk of devaluation in the character of leadership. Not surprisingly for an admitted liberal, she held her greatest praise for John Kennedy, the only president in her estimation who made Americans look to their higher angels. Then came Johnsons Great Society and Vietnam. Nixon, she said, was a man who would when presented two roads always choose the wrong one. He was followed by healing Ford, well-meaning Carter, Reagans revolution, Bush Sr.s self-destruction and Clintons damaging of the presidential myth. She seemed to have sympathy and affection for everyone but George W. Bush, a man who she said is rising on a wave of 9-11 fear fear of looking unpatriotic, fear of asking questions, just fear. We have, she said, lost our way. Thomas believes we have chosen to promote democracy with bombs instead of largess while Congress defaults, Democrats cower and a president controls all three branches of government in the name of corporations and the religious right. As she signed my program, I joked, You sound worried. This is the worst president ever, she said. He is the worst president in all of American history. The woman who has known eight of them wasnt joking. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
First real post - Hugo Noms
I've been on this list for two days and received about 125 posts, most in mid-stream it seems. The Nomination Form for the Torcon 3 2003 Hugos is available on the Conjose 2002 site and in the Torcon 3 PR 4. I'm about to send my nominations in. How many on the list think Kiln People is worthy of a Hugo (I've already filled in the form and I won't say if it is there or not.) Just trying to get a feel from the list. BTW, of the 125 posts, not one mentions the works of the Killer B's or Baxter or Vinge, all of whom are listed on the sign up page. Has this list been going so long, that the books are no longer discussed. Just curious. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Spammers with no shame
I got spam today, an ad for Norton Anti-Virus, and the from claimed to be Andre Norton. This cheesed me off enough to complain to a group containing enough people to understand why I'm cheesed off. :P Julia p.s. anyone, recommend one of her books to me if you'd like, OK? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
At 12:24 24-01-2003 +, Andy Crystall wrote: Don't worry, I'll take myself off the list Is that a threat or a promise? Jeroen Promises, promises... van Baardwijk LEGAL NOTICE: By replying to this message, you understand and accept that your replies (both on-list and off-list) may be published on-line and in any other form, and that I cannot and shall not be held responsible for any negative consequences (monetary and otherwise) this may have for you. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
At 13:25 24-01-2003 +, Andy Crystall wrote: Everyone twists what you say. Aww, poor Andy. No...three people on this list in the past have. And you only in this particular debate. (The other two are Jeroen and The Fool, for reference). I checked my posts in which I replied to your messages. I did not find any evidence of me twisting your words. I have shown the flaws in your arguments, I have defended myself against your attacks, but I never twisted what you say. Jeroen Tabularium nunquam mentiri van Baardwijk LEGAL NOTICE: By replying to this message, you understand and accept that your replies (both on-list and off-list) may be published on-line and in any other form, and that I cannot and shall not be held responsible for any negative consequences (monetary and otherwise) this may have for you. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Is this thing on?
It appears that the server was acting up, though I can't quite see what happened. For now, at least, it seems to be back to normal. -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [Listref] Environment
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Erik Reuter ... Maybe someone would volunteer to referee the debate? What do you say, Andy, can you handle a scientific debate on the issue? Erik, I don't think this is intended to be a place for such debate. We don't have any structure on the list to manage it, although your call for a referee would head us that way, which is not necessarily a bad thing... but it would be a rather large leap from an almost-anything-goes discussion, which I regard as brainstorming, to some kind of formal disputation forum, as DB says. It's something of a relief to see a bit of a flame war crop up without the participation of the usual suspect, but hey, guys, can you both try to lower the heat level? I see name-calling and there's no call for that. It's dangerously close to being personal attacks. And now, a completely personal request... could you each state your positions in brief? I'm lost. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment *L3*
On 24 Jan 2003 at 10:08, Jon Gabriel wrote: Erik and Andy, I didn't read the book, and I make it a point never to bash or praise texts unless I've read 'em. However, if source materials are what y'all are looking for This is excerpted text (actually, it's pretty much all of it!) all of it), of the Danish Committees on Scientific Dishonesty's report. Yes, thanks. I did read it yesterday. Given the experts involved... I will say this again, in case people have forgotton... I am eco-realist, not eco-loonie. Groups like Greenpeace is more interested in stiring up the public than campaigning for real causes. They're in the business of keeping themselves going...*sighs* I am an advocate of heavy investment in eco-friendly technologies, using the cost benefits of cleaner, more efficient techniques and products developed to drive a *capitalistic* cleanup of known troublespots in the environment. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Which Sims Persona Are You?
Jon Gabriel wrote: :) http://gprojects.web.aol.com/tso/quiz_standalone.html entertainment sim... I always new I had a flair for drama. ;o) Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
hello
Did it break for real this time? Kevin T. Plan B ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Test For Echo
I'm trying to figure out if our server is wonky...Did anyone get my earlier message re: 'sorry I stepped into a *pile I didn't know was there'? I've only gotten 16 posts today [maybe channeling Ronn's evil twin? ;) ], but other lists are coming through. GSV Ping __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Football coverage observations
In a message dated 1/22/2003 10:30:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Out of curiosity, do you watch as many Yankee games when they are 30 games out as when they are in a pennant race? Did you follow the Knicks closely when they were out of the playoffs? I have not watched the Knicks much this year or last. When Van Gundy quit last year it took by surprise and the team preceded to play terribly. This year the loss of McDice before the season was a crusher as was Latrell's little escapade. So I haven't watched. Not so much because they are bad but because they are not very interestng to me. I am such a Yankee fan that I will always watch them as long as they are half way descent and have good folks on the team. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
I am sorry that I was unaware of the prior debate; I wasn't a member then. Had I known this particular text was a sore point, I would not have brought it up; I happened to read a snippet in my science digest re: the committee, and did a minigoogle which turned up the article I posted. If someone cares to offlist me with any other 'flamers,' I will deal with them - if at all - more circumspectly. Some of today's posts in this thread are not in the spirit of IAAMOAC, re: personal attacks. :( Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First real post - Hugo Noms
In a message dated 1/24/2003 9:00:59 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just trying to get a feel from the list. I'd keep your legs crossed when you type that. No pun goes out tended with this grop.er group. William Taylor -- What are all these thousands of green people doing with ballots? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Avent bottles (Was: Re: Whaaaaaa, it exists ..... :o))
Bryon Daly wrote: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: camping cots you can fold back together, www. hauck.de ) and AVENT (baby feeding stuf). I needed replacement parts for well used items of theirs and they both sent them to me without any charge after a quick e-mail exchange. Amazed me even more because they didn't have to, since it was well beyond their responsabillity. I love companies like that. That's good to know about Avent. I haven't worn out anything of theirs yet, but I'm paranoid about losing parts to the breast pump. :P (Of course, they enclose 2 replacements for the part most likely to be lost, and 1 for the most vital part likely to wear out in the first place, but you never know) We were using Avent bottles with our second baby, but were regularly having problems where they would leak heavily from the cap while you were feeding. A few friends that used the Avent bottles also had the same problem. It wasn't an issue of one or two bad bottles/nipples. They all did it on occasion. It seemed the problem was that sometimes the seal between the nipple and the bottle wasn't forming correctly, leaving a gap the milk would leak from if you tilted the bottle a certain way. It also seemed the act of feeding could cause this to happen sometimes, because it would start leaking later even if you tested it when you filled the bottle. I mostly mention this because one of our friends actually called Avent up to complain about this problem and were pretty much blown off by them. My wife got fed up with them after about 3 months and we went to a different brand. I had the same problem. But it I found out why the bottles kept leaking. First of all you need to make sure you have Avent nipples that go with the cap. Then whether or not your bottle leaks depends on how you put on the cap and the nipples. If you pull (and from experience I can tell you that you really have to do a bit of tugging and pulling before the nipple snaps into the cap the way it is supposed to sit) the nipple into the cap before you put the cap on, you should be set. But you have to thouroughly screw on the cap and then (eventually) repull the nipple again. After that check. If it still leaks fasten the cap another turn. The problem should be solved that way. Hope it helps :o) Sonja :o) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Another overzealous watchdog leads to suffering
A woman with a brain tumor was arrested when she went in to pick up her prescription painkiller. http://makeashorterlink.com/?L22362733 Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dysfunctional Family
My mind reacted with 'list-mama' and 'list-daddy' I'll not elaborate on the rest of my thoughts. ;o) Sonja Horn, John wrote: I swear this mailing list is the most dysfunctional family I have ever seen. Sometimes I can't tell if you all* are serious about these things or sitting back and having fun with a big grin. And I can't tell which is worse... - jmh * All involved in these regular list blowups, I mean. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Spammers with no shame
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got spam today, an ad for Norton Anti-Virus, and the from claimed to be Andre Norton. This cheesed me off enough to complain to a group containing enough people to understand why I'm cheesed off. :P Julia p.s. anyone, recommend one of her books to me if you'd like, OK? I really liked _Breed To Come_, _The Jargoon Pard_ and the series with Kerovan and Joisan. Her collaborated 'Trillium' series I found less-than-stellar, and would not advise. Gremlins In The Works, Fer Shur Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
In a message dated 1/24/2003 10:25:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also went to his website and read the commission report. Quoting a popular science magazine as one's primary source? Any physicist who would do that would be laughed out of the room. But the SA reviews were written by experts in environmental science and the complaints they raise about the book seem subtantive and specific. But it does seem very odd to me that a book could be viewed as some sort of violation of science. It is not a scientific article. It is a book. Can you name another book of this type that is peer reviewed? Would it seem rationale to accuse Daniel Dennett of scientific fraud in Darwin's Dangerous Idea? Does it make sense to argue that he is a philospher not a scientist and therefore he cannot express his opinions about evolution? One reviews with books and argues about them but it is absurd to have an official organization decide that a book is a fraud. The reason one writes a book is to have one's opinion heard. A scientific article is part of the public discourse of science. Its methods are judged and publication is based on adherence to basic principles. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Whoops!!
Well, looks like we had a totally unintended break from brin-l for the last 10 or 12 hours. Those of you experiencing significant withdrawl symptoms may now relieve yourselves. Or something like that. I don't know, I'm so dang tired after not one, but two major family crises in the last three days, that I don't know what I'm doing. (For example, I didn't know that the list server didn't restart with the rest of the server...) -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Spammers with no shame
Deborah Harrell wrote: --- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: p.s. anyone, recommend one of her books to me if you'd like, OK? I really liked _Breed To Come_, _The Jargoon Pard_ and the series with Kerovan and Joisan. Her collaborated 'Trillium' series I found less-than-stellar, and would not advise. I have _The Jargoon Pard_. (There are a number of books that were my father's that I haven't read yet; about a dozen Norton novels are among them.) Thanks for the recommend; I'll read that one the next time I'm looking at Norton to read. Julia currently in the middle of an Elizabeth Moon novel ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Souldynamics
R! I hit send* when I meant to hit save as a draft* - wanted to rework it a bit, perhaps delete some of the personal bits... Oh well. See the frequently-fuzzy-in-direction-while-work-is-in-progress convolutions of my mind... Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Whoops!!
In a message dated 1/24/2003 9:17:50 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, looks like we had a totally unintended break from brin-l for the last 10 or 12 hours. Those of you experiencing significant withdrawl symptoms may now relieve yourselves. You do and you clean it up yourself, mate. William Taylor - Whoops Apocolypse the elder is much better than Whoops Apocolypse the younger. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First real post - Hugo Noms
--- G. D. Akin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been on this list for two days and received about 125 posts, most in mid-stream it seems. snip BTW, of the 125 posts, not one mentions the works of the Killer B's or Baxter or Vinge, all of whom are listed on the sign up page. Has this list been going so long, that the books are no longer discussed. Just curious. And a floating white feather to you, George! :) Actually, there was a discussion on _KP_ not too long ago (haven't read it yet myself), and His creatures are irregularly mentioned, especially in a humorous vein. I was told that He said (at some long-ago time in the beginning of list-time) that All is Brin. Debbi Saddle Up 'n Ride Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Helen Thomas on bush
At 03:01 PM 1/24/2003 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote: This is the worst president ever, she said. He is the worst president in all of American history. Apparently Bill Clinton never sexually harassed her.. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
Deborah Harrell wrote: I am sorry that I was unaware of the prior debate; I wasn't a member then. I wouldn't be sorry at all, if I was you. It's a perfectly legitimate and interesting topic and I don't remember any massive flame war in a previous thread about the book in question, or any objections to the discussion. I downloaded the author's rebuttal from http://www.greenspirit.com/lomborg/ (PDF) and am currently trying to digest it. Particularly disturbing to me is the threat by Scientific American to sue Lomborg for printing his rebuttal on his web site. It certainly undermines the case against him, IMO. Doug GSV First Amendment ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First real post - Gubru Noms de plume
In a message dated 1/24/2003 9:35:38 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was told that He said (at some long-ago time in the beginning of list-time) that All is Brin. All...all..all..h. A naturalist's Ode To Uplift. All things bright and beautiful All creatures great and small All things wise and wonderful Your Uplift bends them all. Each little flower that opens, Each little bird that sings, With Nature they doth meddle, To splice their genes as kings. All things bright and beautiful, All creatures great and small, All things wise and wonderful, With Uplift they've the gaul. The purple-headed monsters, (Joan River's running by?) The slithers and the moaning That'd make Progen'tors cry. All things bright and beautiful, All creatures great and small, All things wise and wonderful, An Uplift Demerol. The cold wind in the winter, We'll gene splice in more fur. The ripe fruits in the garden, May one day blush demure. All things bright and beautiful, All creatures great and small, All things wise and wonderful, Are at our beck and call.. God gave us eyes to see them, And lips that we might tell How great is God Almighty, When we dip in his well? All things bright and beautiful, All creatures great and small, All things wise and wonderful, This Uplift f**ks them all. William Taylor - Waxing fruit poetic. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Helen Thomas on bush
At 03:01 PM 1/24/03 -0800, Doug Pensinger wrote: The Fool wrote: This is the worst president ever, she said. He is the worst president in all of American history. The woman who has known eight of them wasn't joking. I couldn't agree more. He's the Anti-American President and we'll be years maybe decades fixing the mess he's making. So? The worst president ever can't run again, and we're trying to fix some of the mess he made. Of course, his wife the carpetbagger Senator can . . . ROU Tell it like it is Yep. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Spammers with no shame
At 10:51 AM 1/24/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: I got spam today, an ad for Norton Anti-Virus, and the from claimed to be Andre Norton. Sounds more like the work of _Ed_ Norton . . . This cheesed me off enough to complain to a group containing enough people to understand why I'm cheesed off. :P Julia p.s. anyone, recommend one of her books to me if you'd like, OK? I liked much of her YA SF, though admittedly I was near the age it was intended for when I read it . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: First real post - Hugo Noms
Hi George! A pleasure to meet you. Welcome to Brin-L. You might want to check out Brin-L.com to get a feel for the list. To answer your questions, completely out of order: :) Ongoing Brinlist conversations center a great deal on politics, technology, privacy and scientific issues. We don't work hard to keep things on topic -- although one could easily argue that almost every discussion we've had about the inner workings of our civilization relates in some way to the works of Dr. Brin and our other 'namesakes'. We've had a number of discussions of Dr. Brin's work in the last year-plus, along with an in-depth, chapter by chapter analysis and debate of at least one and a half of his novels... but the person who was doing the bulk of the work on that project has been extremely busy lately. Some of us are hoping that may pick up again soon. In other words, we don't discuss the work of the killer-bees and V. Vinge exclusively, (we never really did,) but we do still talk about them, sometimes in depth. Dr. Brin is pretty good about answering questions posed to him with Brin: placed before the subject in the subject line. The list changed servers in September and became a 'killer-bee' list. There haven't been many conversations about other killer-bee writers yet, but this is bound to change over time. Personally, I like Vinge's work -- I've just finished his short story collection and 'A Deepness in the Sky' was quite entertaining and absorbing. I'm now working on 'A fire upon the deep'. OK, now on to the important question: Does Kiln People deserve a Hugo? You're not asking an unbiased group, you know. :) My personal opinion is Heck, Yes!, and here's why: From a conceptual perspective, KP was quite innovative and even brilliant. Very well thought out. I thought the idea of multiple, interwoven story threads told by dittos of the same protagonist was really fascinating. The story was absorbing and many of the characters were quite believable. (The dittotech was completely improbable, but once you suspended belief, didn't detract from the story.) And from a philosophical standpoint, KP addressed and answered some rather fascinating questions on the concepts of self, identity, mortality, awareness, responsibility, souls and dreams. Many great SF works make us question our own existence and what makes us human. KP fits the bill. Plus, I'm a fan of the noir genre and pace. I even found a couple of cool correlations between this story and Bogart's The Big Sleep, which was released in the mid-40's. I also liked the amount of 'fleshing out' that had been done on the surrounding world. IMO, just enough to move the story along, but not so much that we were dying of boredom. (I felt that way about Brightness Reef and Glory Season. Those two novels invested so much time on the culture of their own worlds that I felt the primary plotlines suffered.) I *have* been meaning to ask Dr. Brin if the puns and chapter headings took as long to write as the rest of the novel. ;) I have to also note that those sometimes awful, groaner puns were a quite inventive way of helping the audience keep track of each protagonist and their storylines. But whoo boy! The ending left a lot of people cold. Metaspirituality meets quantum mechanics. I liked the end, even though I felt that the good doctor had written himself into a corner and needed a deus ex machine to work himself out of it. A common list complaint has been that the last third of the book lagged -- an opinion I don't share. Anyway, I'm off to bed. Pull up a chair and enjoy yourself. :) Jon Gabriel We need feedback from outside ourselves. Life consists of interacting pieces, free to jiggle and rearrange themselves. That's how you make a working system, like an organism, or a culture, or a biosphere. Or a mind. ~David Brin~ 'Earth' -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of G. D. Akin Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 5:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: First real post - Hugo Noms I've been on this list for two days and received about 125 posts, most in mid-stream it seems. The Nomination Form for the Torcon 3 2003 Hugos is available on the Conjose 2002 site and in the Torcon 3 PR 4. I'm about to send my nominations in. How many on the list think Kiln People is worthy of a Hugo (I've already filled in the form and I won't say if it is there or not.) Just trying to get a feel from the list. BTW, of the 125 posts, not one mentions the works of the Killer B's or Baxter or Vinge, all of whom are listed on the sign up page. Has this list been going so long, that the books are no longer discussed. Just curious. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: First real post - Hugo Noms
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention (thanks Debbi!) that I have a somewhat personal obsession with seeing Brin-creations on Iron Chef. To wit: Tandu Teriyaki Gubru Goulash Juicy Jophur Julienne Soaked Soro over Spaghetti Tytlal Tots Hoonish Hamburgers Gorilla Grits with Ghee and Gorgonzola Kiqui Sushi rolls with Kiwi, avocado and basmati rice Etc., Any additions would be appreciated ;) Jon GSV Haute Cuisine! :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Deborah Harrell Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 11:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: First real post - Hugo Noms --- G. D. Akin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been on this list for two days and received about 125 posts, most in mid-stream it seems. snip BTW, of the 125 posts, not one mentions the works of the Killer B's or Baxter or Vinge, all of whom are listed on the sign up page. Has this list been going so long, that the books are no longer discussed. Just curious. And a floating white feather to you, George! :) Actually, there was a discussion on _KP_ not too long ago (haven't read it yet myself), and His creatures are irregularly mentioned, especially in a humorous vein. I was told that He said (at some long-ago time in the beginning of list-time) that All is Brin. Debbi Saddle Up 'n Ride Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Environment
At 05:03 PM 1/24/03 -0800, Deborah Harrell wrote: I am sorry that I was unaware of the prior debate; I wasn't a member then. Had I known this particular text was a sore point, I would not have brought it up; I happened to read a snippet in my science digest re: the committee, and did a minigoogle which turned up the article I posted. If someone cares to offlist me with any other 'flamers,' I will deal with them - if at all - more circumspectly. Some of today's posts in this thread are not in the spirit of IAAMOAC, re: personal attacks. :( I haven't seen _any_ personal attacks or flames so far, just messages like this one which seem to refer to some great flame war. Perhaps those messages are still hung up in cyberspace as part of whatever the recent server problems led to? What was the subject line of the hot messages? --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [Listref] Environment
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Deborah Harrell Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Listref] Environment I am sorry that I was unaware of the prior debate; I wasn't a member then. Had I known this particular text was a sore point, I would not have brought it up; I happened to read a snippet in my science digest re: the committee, and did a minigoogle which turned up the article I posted. Don't apologize. The subject was fascinating. I'm personally very glad you posted and, for that matter, I'm also glad you're vocal. :) If someone cares to offlist me with any other 'flamers,' I will deal with them - if at all - more circumspectly. You'd probably have to do something completely outrageous and offensive to get tossed. You didn't. Don't worry about it. Some of today's posts in this thread are not in the spirit of IAAMOAC, re: personal attacks. :( How I learned to love brin-l has been my motto this week. Jon Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Whoops!!
Not trying to pry -- but I do hope everything's ok and settled for you and your family. Jon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 11:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Whoops!! Well, looks like we had a totally unintended break from brin-l for the last 10 or 12 hours. Those of you experiencing significant withdrawl symptoms may now relieve yourselves. Or something like that. I don't know, I'm so dang tired after not one, but two major family crises in the last three days, that I don't know what I'm doing. (For example, I didn't know that the list server didn't restart with the rest of the server...) -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Helen Thomas on bush
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ronn! Blankenship Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 12:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Helen Thomas on bush At 03:01 PM 1/24/03 -0800, Doug Pensinger wrote: The Fool wrote: This is the worst president ever, she said. He is the worst president in all of American history. The woman who has known eight of them wasn't joking. I couldn't agree more. He's the Anti-American President and we'll be years maybe decades fixing the mess he's making. So? The worst president ever can't run again, and we're trying to fix some of the mess he made. Of course, his wife the carpetbagger Senator can . . . I find it fascinating that the only people I ever hear complaining about Senator Hillary Clinton are non-New Yorkers. Obvious Republican mouthpieces like the NY Post, Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh notwithstanding, I've only *very* rarely heard on-the-street New Yorkers complain about our junior senator. I think too many out-of-towners have simply decided that she's guilty of something nefarious by association. Whitewater certainly didn't find anything. If it had, after spending all that money and time, the investigators and prosecutors would have tossed her in jail and thrown away the key. The only reason I voted for her for Senate was her opponent, Rick Lazio, ran such an ugly, nasty campaign that I couldn't shake the feelings of supreme and slimy disgust he and his mentor, Al D'Amato inspired in me. I wasn't the only one. Obviously, many of my fellow NY'ers felt the same way. How could we vote for a man who didn't have the respect to debate the issues without stooping to really low, personal attacks and negative campaigning. While she was running, I never personally believed she gave a damn about this city. She's proved me wrong by fighting for us repeatedly (especially since 9-11), and I've been more than pleasantly surprised by that. ROU Tell it like it is ROU Try Living Here, Then Throw Stones :) Jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First real post - Gubru Noms de plume
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was told that He said (at some long-ago time in the beginning of list-time) that All is Brin. All...all..all..h. A naturalist's Ode To Uplift. All things bright and beautiful All creatures great and small All things wise and wonderful Your Uplift bends them all. snip LOL I just got a vision of Master Tricki Woo as the MIB character 'Frank'...Cedric the flatulent boxer could have used some tinkering with his GI system, too! Yorkshire Ham And Picalilli Sauce Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: First real post - Hugo Noms
At 12:21 AM 1/25/03 -0500, Jon Gabriel wrote: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention (thanks Debbi!) that I have a somewhat personal obsession with seeing Brin-creations on Iron Chef. To wit: Tandu Teriyaki Gubru Goulash Juicy Jophur Julienne Soaked Soro over Spaghetti Tytlal Tots Hoonish Hamburgers Gorilla Grits with Ghee and Gorgonzola Kiqui Sushi rolls with Kiwi, avocado and basmati rice Etc., Any additions would be appreciated ;) One wonders if any of them are waiting for Long Pig Lasagna . . . Jon GSV Haute Cuisine! :) To Serve Man Maru --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Helen Thomas on bush
At 12:51 AM 1/25/03 -0500, Jon Gabriel wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ronn! Blankenship Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 12:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Helen Thomas on bush At 03:01 PM 1/24/03 -0800, Doug Pensinger wrote: The Fool wrote: This is the worst president ever, she said. He is the worst president in all of American history. The woman who has known eight of them wasn't joking. I couldn't agree more. He's the Anti-American President and we'll be years maybe decades fixing the mess he's making. So? The worst president ever can't run again, and we're trying to fix some of the mess he made. Of course, his wife the carpetbagger Senator can . . . I find it fascinating that the only people I ever hear complaining about Senator Hillary Clinton are non-New Yorkers. Obvious Republican mouthpieces like the NY Post, Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh notwithstanding, I've only *very* rarely heard on-the-street New Yorkers complain about our junior senator. I think too many out-of-towners have simply decided that she's guilty of something nefarious by association. No. Those of us who don't want such things as her version of nationalized health care see her main, if not only reason, for running for Senator was as a stepping stone to running for President. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Whoops!!
Nick Arnett wrote: Well, looks like we had a totally unintended break from brin-l for the last 10 or 12 hours. Those of you experiencing significant withdrawl symptoms may now relieve yourselves. Ah yes... Or something like that. I don't know, I'm so dang tired after not one, but two major family crises in the last three days, that I don't know what I'm doing. (For example, I didn't know that the list server didn't restart with the rest of the server...) Hope everything is okay! No problem with Brin-L, though. The list seems to be nicely back on track. Kevin Street ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First real post - Hugo Noms
In a message dated 1/24/2003 10:22:26 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention (thanks Debbi!) that I have a somewhat personal obsession with seeing Brin-creations on Iron Chef. To wit: Tandu Teriyaki Gubru Goulash Juicy Jophur Julienne Soaked Soro over Spaghetti Tytlal Tots Hoonish Hamburgers Gorilla Grits with Ghee and Gorgonzola Kiqui Sushi rolls with Kiwi, avocado and basmati rice Etc., Any additions would be appreciated ;) Jon GSV Haute Cuisine! :) Garthlinks Beans Pring Gulls Potato Chips, deep eye laser fried. One eye if by land and two eye if by sea. Gubruskis, or Shiska-Bobsleding. Fast food for fast slopes. We deliver--but only downhill. Call ahead and we'll give you the bird. A little flaming Crisco goes a long way. Kant Ur Lobes.Fun, food, and philosophy ala grey matter d'. Brain it on down. Talk about cerebellyum. We also make beer with the finest Hobbes. Weight Watchers specials if you want to get Thennanagain. William Taylor -- Burp! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First real post - Hugo Noms
G. D. Akin wrote: I've been on this list for two days and received about 125 posts, most in mid-stream it seems. The Nomination Form for the Torcon 3 2003 Hugos is available on the Conjose 2002 site and in the Torcon 3 PR 4. I'm about to send my nominations in. How many on the list think Kiln People is worthy of a Hugo (I've already filled in the form and I won't say if it is there or not.) Just trying to get a feel from the list. BTW, of the 125 posts, not one mentions the works of the Killer B's or Baxter or Vinge, all of whom are listed on the sign up page. Has this list been going so long, that the books are no longer discussed. Just curious. George A Welcome to the list, George. As Debbi suggested, All is Brin, but on topic discussions are welcome and encouraged. In fact, I read Bear's Darwin's Radio last month and enjoyed it from start to finish. I'm a bit skeptical of his ideas on how punctuated equilibrium might be effected, but they are interesting all the same. Bear writes well and his characters are intriguing. I recently finished Bank's Look to Windward - another excellent read. Set in the Culture universe, cat like aliens seek to redress culture meddling. The usual fantastic Banks constructs including a mammoth orbital described in some detail, interesting aliens including the cat-like antagonists and behmouthars - massive, extremely long lived, balloon like creatures. I just reread Bank's Inversions, another Culture novel though of a completely different stripe. Set on a pre-industrial world whose inhabitants are ignorant of their alien observers, it's an interesting take on the Prime Directive question. Sort of. I wouldn't recommend this one if you haven't read any other Culture novels as some knowledge of that universe is pretty much essential in order to understand what's going on (I suggest either Player of Games or Consider Phlebas for starters). Because of the medieval setting, in almost reads like a fantasy novel, but its a good story that'll make you think and may leave you scratching your head at the conclusion. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
