Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: On Sun, 2008-03-02 at 13:21 +1100, clare wrote: Andy I do hope you will put as much as you can back into GTA01, as I have real hopes now of using mine regularly. +1 from me too :) I think we can say it shouldn't make things any worse, but many improvements recently on GTA02 suspend current have been hardware changes, so it won't be exactly the same. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHysEDOjLpvpq7dMoRAqHzAKCGO2smsQPbN33Esm/h9bqFcQUGuQCdG2VV dAAJTKtrBWOp+CbrQYJLhzo= =L2uF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Andy Green ha scritto: Depends on what you're doing with it... is the backlight on all the time... making a call... I can't give you a straight answer because I didn't examine this yet. Instead I spent all my time around power consumption looking to optimize suspend current since that can involve circuit changes. That's reasonable... Btw I know that the neo is more a computer than a phone, so its power compsumation depends much on what you're doing with it; btw let's consider it only just as a phone, and so I'm curious about the two standard values that generally vendors claim: standby time and conversation time. For suspended time with GSM modem off we have the consumption down to ~2mA and I expect that will improve further by software changes, so on a 1200mAh battery like we ship maybe it can last 20 days (unverified!) doing nothing at the moment. With GSM modem on in suspend maybe 5 days Ok, 5 days of standby time is quite good, but could it be greater? I've heard that the iPhone, for example, has a standby-time really much long... Whatever the figure is for usage time it will change by a factor of 5 or 10 depending if you run the GSM transmitter, wifi, CPU is always busy, GPS, and the worst suspect the backlight, so you need to define exactly what you do with the device during this usage to get a meaningful figure. Of course... Btw I think that my average day usage will be something like: GSM always working, wifi for about 1 or 2 hours, some sms (1 or 2) and calls (about half hour). In such conditions, do you have an idea about how much will the neo stay up? I'm also figuring another usage-way while traveling using both the GSM on standby and the GPS up (with a maps software): any idea about this? Bye -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Andy I do hope you will put as much as you can back into GTA01, as I have real hopes now of using mine regularly. thanks clare On Sun, 2 Mar 2008, Andy Green wrote: I think we will improve this a small amount in kernel updates we already know we can do, but how much I don't know. We already know we waste current with bad GPIO levels in suspend and can fix them (I have a list here to do). Also I derated these estimates somewhat just in case since I did not verify them. So I expect we exceed this figure soon. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On Sun, 2008-03-02 at 13:21 +1100, clare wrote: Andy I do hope you will put as much as you can back into GTA01, as I have real hopes now of using mine regularly. +1 from me too :) -Tim thanks clare On Sun, 2 Mar 2008, Andy Green wrote: I think we will improve this a small amount in kernel updates we already know we can do, but how much I don't know. We already know we waste current with bad GPIO levels in suspend and can fix them (I have a list here to do). Also I derated these estimates somewhat just in case since I did not verify them. So I expect we exceed this figure soon. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Uncle Kridley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: joerg wrote: - charge from any host (incl simplistic chargers): 100mA (6-12h) - charge from intelligent host: 500mA (1-2h) - charge from quickcharger with magic R: 1500mA (1h) Ahh, ok, that makes a lot more sense. I generally charge overnight, so when I'm traveling, the difference between 100mA 500mA won't be an issue. It will be a big difference unless you plan to turn your phone off while you charge it, because it will probably consume quite a bit of current in the case that GSM is on but the rest of the phone is semi-sleeping. Maybe even more than 100mA. As long as the Neo will support at least 500mA charging from a dumb charger with a magic resistor value (or some shorted pins), including existing chargers of this kind (like the Motorola ones), that should be good for charging on-the-go. Having it take only 100mA from such chargers is unacceptable. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Andy Green ha scritto: Somebody in the thread at some point said: - charge from any host (incl simplistic chargers): 100mA (6-12h) - charge from intelligent host: 500mA (1-2h) - charge from quickcharger with magic R: 1500mA (1h) This is pretty accurate Joerg but on this last one the total current drawn from the adapter is limited to 1A max by the PMU. So we charge at ~700mA or so the rest goes to power the device. Ok about charging, but what's exactly now the status of discharging on GTA02 devices? I mean... How long is actually running a (pre-)Freerunner without charging it? -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: Ok about charging, but what's exactly now the status of discharging on GTA02 devices? I mean... How long is actually running a (pre-)Freerunner without charging it? Depends on what you're doing with it... is the backlight on all the time... making a call... I can't give you a straight answer because I didn't examine this yet. Instead I spent all my time around power consumption looking to optimize suspend current since that can involve circuit changes. For suspended time with GSM modem off we have the consumption down to ~2mA and I expect that will improve further by software changes, so on a 1200mAh battery like we ship maybe it can last 20 days (unverified!) doing nothing at the moment. With GSM modem on in suspend maybe 5 days (unverified!). Whatever the figure is for usage time it will change by a factor of 5 or 10 depending if you run the GSM transmitter, wifi, CPU is always busy, GPS, and the worst suspect the backlight, so you need to define exactly what you do with the device during this usage to get a meaningful figure. Generally I would expect over time we can improve performance in software, like dimming the backlight gently quite soon after the last action, getting the backlight off quickly, and getting into suspend quickly between actions from the user. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHyMMeOjLpvpq7dMoRAvH0AJ0W31ZuOOkLRyvKfy3PnoNs/Frg6wCfRxNq 5ycuT6jUOoRAK9pOGRPTMk4= =FB4L -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Hello OpenMoko Community, im reading the OpenMoko Wiki and the Community Updates some time now, and i just registered for some OpenMoko Mailinglists. I read the Archives and found this Topic. I own a T-Mobile MDA Vario. The device is charged via USB too. And theay included an USB Wallcharger. Have anybody allready checked this charger? Device Data: Delta Electronics inc. AC Adapter HTC P/N: 79H00051-02M Model: ADP-5FH C Input: 100-240V~ 0,2A 50-60hz Output: 5V = 1A LPS Frequency Level 4 And a link to a Shop wich is offering this: http://htcaccessories.com/htc-touch-oem-travel-charger-adp-5fh.html I hope i could help with my first mail :-) Greetings Andre (Phantomal) Lanvermann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Oooh, the it seems i missunderstood the previous Messages. I was sure that there is NO Charger for the NEO Except the USB Port of a Computer. Im sorry :( Greetings Andre joerg schrieb: Am Do 28. Februar 2008 schrieb Andre Lanvermann: I read the Archives and found this Topic. I own a T-Mobile MDA Vario. The device is charged via USB too. And theay included an USB Wallcharger. Have anybody allready checked this charger? Device Data: Delta Electronics inc. AC Adapter HTC P/N: 79H00051-02M Model: ADP-5FH C Input: 100-240V~ 0,2A 50-60hz Output: 5V = 1A LPS Frequency Level 4 What i've learned so far: The strange thing with USB-charger is a resistor of certain Ohms (47k IIRC) that's supposed to connect 2 pins of the charger's plug to identify OM-charger. I can't say whether this is standard for USB-chargers, or what will happen when NEO doesn't sense this resistor on USB-power detection. Charging seems to be controlled by the main CPU via PCU-chip. If there's no CPU control e.g. due to completely flat accu, only a very low secure trickle charge takes place (-if you can't power on your NEO, connect to USB and try again after ~30 min...). There are chances this will be the same for missing resistor, depending on what logic is in the driver. Maybe one of the devs may shed some more light on this. jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Am Do 28. Februar 2008 schrieb Andre Lanvermann: Oooh, the it seems i missunderstood the previous Messages. I was sure that there is NO Charger for the NEO Except the USB Port of a Computer. Im sorry :( from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#Charger ___ Charger ___ AKII Technology Charger Model: A10P1-05MP Input: 100-240v~ /0.3A Output: +5v up to 2.0A Add 47.5k 1% resistor between ID pin and ground for openmoko charger identification Anyway a good question, whether there will be other chargers working with GTA02 jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
In case some of you aren't on the device owners list I posted this to before, I created a script that will detect when you're plugged into a charger that's causing a slow (100mA) charge and will ask if you want to do fast charge instead. Examples of such chargers include a car charger, the usb port on a Windows computer without the Neo inf installed, etc. I created a script to monitor for slow charge and pop up a gui asking if you want to switch to fast charge mode. The default instructions install the script and an init.d script to start stop it, as well as links to make the daemon start automatically. The page telling how to install is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script From the page: What it does Your neo will detect when it is charging slowly and pop up a gui to ask if you want to switch to fast charge mode. It will take a few seconds to detect that you are charging slowly. Details checkFastCharge will remember if you select slow charge and not ask you again. If you accidentally selected slow charge, unplug the neo from the charger for several seconds, then plug it back in. Next time the script checks, it will ask again if you want slow or fast charge. When you select fast charge, the script goes through a confirmation sequence, because fast charge can be dangerous for your hardware if the charger doesn't support 500 mA or more. Just click 'Confirm' four times to confirm that you want to go into fast charge mode. Let me know if you see obvious improvements, or if you want to make an ipkg of it (I will eventually do so myself...), or if you know a better place for me to host the download. Bobby Am Do 28. Februar 2008 schrieb Andre Lanvermann: I read the Archives and found this Topic. I own a T-Mobile MDA Vario. The device is charged via USB too. And theay included an USB Wallcharger. Have anybody allready checked this charger? Device Data: Delta Electronics inc. AC Adapter HTC P/N: 79H00051-02M Model: ADP-5FH C Input: 100-240V~ 0,2A 50-60hz Output: 5V = 1A LPS Frequency Level 4 What i've learned so far: The strange thing with USB-charger is a resistor of certain Ohms (47k IIRC) that's supposed to connect 2 pins of the charger's plug to identify OM-charger. I can't say whether this is standard for USB-chargers, or what will happen when NEO doesn't sense this resistor on USB-power detection. Charging seems to be controlled by the main CPU via PCU-chip. If there's no CPU control e.g. due to completely flat accu, only a very low secure trickle charge takes place (-if you can't power on your NEO, connect to USB and try again after ~30 min...). There are chances this will be the same for missing resistor, depending on what logic is in the driver. Maybe one of the devs may shed some more light on this. jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Bobby, I'm glad you posted this again, I've been meaning to tell you I'll be happy to host your script on downloads.openmoko.org. Shall I just copy the script from your host? Michael Bobby Martin wrote: In case some of you aren't on the device owners list I posted this to before, I created a script that will detect when you're plugged into a charger that's causing a slow (100mA) charge and will ask if you want to do fast charge instead. Examples of such chargers include a car charger, the usb port on a Windows computer without the Neo inf installed, etc. I created a script to monitor for slow charge and pop up a gui asking if you want to switch to fast charge mode. The default instructions install the script and an init.d script to start stop it, as well as links to make the daemon start automatically. The page telling how to install is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script From the page: What it does Your neo will detect when it is charging slowly and pop up a gui to ask if you want to switch to fast charge mode. It will take a few seconds to detect that you are charging slowly. Details checkFastCharge will remember if you select slow charge and not ask you again. If you accidentally selected slow charge, unplug the neo from the charger for several seconds, then plug it back in. Next time the script checks, it will ask again if you want slow or fast charge. When you select fast charge, the script goes through a confirmation sequence, because fast charge can be dangerous for your hardware if the charger doesn't support 500 mA or more. Just click 'Confirm' four times to confirm that you want to go into fast charge mode. Let me know if you see obvious improvements, or if you want to make an ipkg of it (I will eventually do so myself...), or if you know a better place for me to host the download. Bobby Am Do 28. Februar 2008 schrieb Andre Lanvermann: I read the Archives and found this Topic. I own a T-Mobile MDA Vario. The device is charged via USB too. And theay included an USB Wallcharger. Have anybody allready checked this charger? Device Data: Delta Electronics inc. AC Adapter HTC P/N: 79H00051-02M Model: ADP-5FH C Input: 100-240V~ 0,2A 50-60hz Output: 5V = 1A LPS Frequency Level 4 What i've learned so far: The strange thing with USB-charger is a resistor of certain Ohms (47k IIRC) that's supposed to connect 2 pins of the charger's plug to identify OM-charger. I can't say whether this is standard for USB-chargers, or what will happen when NEO doesn't sense this resistor on USB-power detection. Charging seems to be controlled by the main CPU via PCU-chip. If there's no CPU control e.g. due to completely flat accu, only a very low secure trickle charge takes place (-if you can't power on your NEO, connect to USB and try again after ~30 min...). There are chances this will be the same for missing resistor, depending on what logic is in the driver. Maybe one of the devs may shed some more light on this. jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Thanks, Michael! Just downloading the script from my host works for me. Please let me know when you have the hosting moved so I can update the wiki page. I will also soon have an interim solution for importing contacts from the SIM into the address book for you to put up there, too :-) I need to get my stuff into revision control, too. I'll try to get it into projects.openmoko.org soon. Subject: Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02) Bobby, I'm glad you posted this again, I've been meaning to tell you I'll be happy to host your script on downloads.openmoko.org. Shall I just copy the script from your host? Michael Bobby Martin wrote: In case some of you aren't on the device owners list I posted this to before, I created a script that will detect when you're plugged into a charger that's causing a slow (100mA) charge and will ask if you want to do fast charge instead. [snip] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Am Do 28. Februar 2008 schrieb Uncle Kridley: Michael Shiloh wrote: There will be a charger for the Neo Freerunner, which has the secret resistor jOERG mentions below. Does this mean that it won't charge (or will only charge slowly) from a generic USB connector/charger? Part of the point of USB charging is that you don't need a proprietary charger for every device you own. If the Freerunner won't charge off generic USB, I'll be sad. Though i have no clue what's really going on with this, there are some facts that might help imagine: - USB-clients (like NEO in charge mode) may pull 100mA from a USB-host. With advertising (i guess, via some USB-data protocol), a device may increase allowable current to 500mA. However many clients break this spec, by either not advertising or drawing 500mA. - Everything over 500mA is considered illegal and may (also _should_ not) damage host USB adapters. (there are chances to kill a laptop USB port with external HD-drives! If both are sloppy designed) - For quick charge purposes, NEO might well take 1 - 2 A from USB adapter. However extreme care should be taken not to smoke up a poor designed host. So maybe: - charge from any host (incl simplistic chargers): 100mA (6-12h) - charge from intelligent host: 500mA (1-2h) - charge from quickcharger with magic R: 1500mA (1h) Switching to fast and/or ultrafast charge mode possible also with prev. mentioned script. jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
joerg wrote: - charge from any host (incl simplistic chargers): 100mA (6-12h) - charge from intelligent host: 500mA (1-2h) - charge from quickcharger with magic R: 1500mA (1h) Ahh, ok, that makes a lot more sense. I generally charge overnight, so when I'm traveling, the difference between 100mA 500mA won't be an issue. Thanks to Joerg Andy for clearing this up. -- -- Dirk Bergstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://otisbean.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: Am Fr 15. Februar 2008 schrieb Andy Green: Still for quite a few embedded tasks I2C or LVTTL UART -- let's not forget USB OTG 12Mbps host from the mini USB B connector -- will be enough to make a practical solution though. Good point! If i need additional GPIO, so what. I got I2C, so i just chain up some with a dirt cheap chip. The interfacing of the smart battery in GTA01 shouldn't be a big thing this way. Homebrew I2C-GPIO driver, patching GPIO_Bat DEF in src for GTA02 smartbat driver. Well you need a bit of caution on that particular one because the smart battery uses a 1 wire type protocol called HDQ that is reasonably time-sensitive and uses a width of 0 level encoding scheme to define the bit state. So ~~~._.~ can be a '0' and ~~.__.~ can be a '1' for example. The crisis comes with that when you receive the data back from the battery, you have to sample it in a fairly stable way to assess the '0' length on the wire. See the bq27000 datasheet link I posted before for details and timing. In Linux, the I2C stack has a nasty gotcha, it cannot work from interrupt context, and in fact if you have interrupts on you are screwed anyway because other interrupts like USB or whatever can come take take the CPU for considerable periods making your IO crazy jittery. If you try to get around that by using a workqueue so it is out of interrupt context, then your IO is insanely jittery at scheduler granularity and depending on userspace load :-) So sampling that HDQ '0' length becomes difficult. You can square the circle by disabling interrupts and doing your own I2C bitbang via GPIO from CPU, and spinning for the right period between I2C actions, but the owns the CPU for many ms each time. Its probably okay since one doesn't read the battery very often. But you can see it is a bit more of an advanced project. On GTA02 I used a single CPU GPIO with a FIQ driver triggered off a timer, with the HDQ protocol implemented in a state machine in the FIQ ISR to beat these restrictions. The patches for both the FIQ driver and the HDQ and BQ27000 drivers are in the kernel mailing list archives. If people want to provide patches to reuse ANY GTA02 work that is done for GTA01, that will be really welcome. So real issue left for some projects is which power should i use (especially for those devices that don't do their own power-down). Its going to depend on the current you need. IO_3V3 is unswitched but high current. Really I think for most projects, the real answer is the USB OTG Host connector. You don't have to open the case and it provides switched power for you. And i wonder whether there will be *good* (near circuit diagram) specs for the connectors. I.E.: Well I am under NDA, but some of these datasheets are available in the world and the answers may not be a million miles away from the typical application circuits in there. *-what kind of OverVoltage-Protection (clamp-diodes etc) / HF-blocking / ground potential..., can i expect behind any external connector. I have to leave that, but there is EMC and ESD protection considered on them all. *-What exactly is the impedance (R, C) of headset out, what are the absolute maximum ratings (so i may figure out e.g. whether the headset out makes for a high-quality (HiFi) 1,[EMAIL PROTECTED] line out, or should i plan for a 56R load instead of the standard 10k-50k). http://www.national.com/ds.cgi/LM/LM4853.pdf *-USB-host power shortcircuit...? Will it blow my battery or whole NEO up in smoke? ;-). http://www.analogictech.com/products/digitalfiles/AAT1275.pdf - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtUkWOjLpvpq7dMoRAmveAJwOGn6/xI8lsJG1GVWCwQvrvEnJjwCeMOhX G9Y1XHll5F3kGnvKxBbCnaM= =9u9l -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
How much juice does the display eat up when it's active? I assume it's a considerable amount. Could we have the ability to drop the phone into a minimalist mode, where all the fluff is disabled but bare-basic features continue to work? For example, kill the wifi, GPS, bluetooth, and even the display. If you are in a crunch and want to extend your phone's call-time capacity, you could probably deal with approximating a 3 col, 5 row standard phone keypad on the touch-screen WITHOUT the screen displaying anything. Maybe it's a silly idea, but I know I find myself stuck all the time in a situation where I wont be able to get my phone back on a charger like I had planned to. When it comes down to it, the Neo is a phone first, and I'd rather have it act as such when I'm in a bind. ~Bradley Michael Shiloh wrote: Nick Guenther wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 4:04 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. If you find any place on the wiki that says something other than 1200mA, can you please make the correction? You may reference this email. Oh. That's... really disappointing. The battery life is already unusable, and the faster processor and wifi will just make this even worse. We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. In fact if you look in the archives of the kernel mailing list you will see that a tremendous amount of progress has happened over the past few days. I think the current SVN code supports a much improved suspend mode that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. And work continues. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Hi Bradley, This is all being discussed extensively on the kernel mailing list (ML). Yes, there will be ways to reduce consumption by turning off unnecessary stuff. There are multiple levels of suspension, each with a range of components turned on or turned off. Of course once the structure is in place, we will all be free to customize this to our hearts content. As a hacker, I can do this all in code, but as a user, I would hope to see menus which allow you to create a new mode at run time and to select in quite high resolution which components you wanted powered or unpowered. If this is a topic that interests you, I urge you to join the kernel ML, or at least to look through the archives of the past few days. Michael Bradley Hook wrote: How much juice does the display eat up when it's active? I assume it's a considerable amount. Could we have the ability to drop the phone into a minimalist mode, where all the fluff is disabled but bare-basic features continue to work? For example, kill the wifi, GPS, bluetooth, and even the display. If you are in a crunch and want to extend your phone's call-time capacity, you could probably deal with approximating a 3 col, 5 row standard phone keypad on the touch-screen WITHOUT the screen displaying anything. Maybe it's a silly idea, but I know I find myself stuck all the time in a situation where I wont be able to get my phone back on a charger like I had planned to. When it comes down to it, the Neo is a phone first, and I'd rather have it act as such when I'm in a bind. ~Bradley Michael Shiloh wrote: Nick Guenther wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 4:04 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. If you find any place on the wiki that says something other than 1200mA, can you please make the correction? You may reference this email. Oh. That's... really disappointing. The battery life is already unusable, and the faster processor and wifi will just make this even worse. We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. In fact if you look in the archives of the kernel mailing list you will see that a tremendous amount of progress has happened over the past few days. I think the current SVN code supports a much improved suspend mode that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. And work continues. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Am Do 14. Februar 2008 schrieb Kyle Bassett: I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. No! Even in a perfect world, GSM-BS is telling to MS a T321-timecycle to reregister. So you have to add to this figure some seconds of full TX-power consumption e.g. every 40min. (put any cellphone near a walkman for some hours, and you may hear...) Please note that these things a controlled by BaseStation and dependent of current RF-quality (at least for MS-TX power), so you hardly will get reproduceable values with a simple test on desktop. Is there a RTC-Alarm in GTA02, to schedule the cron-jobs mentioned up-topic? cheers j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
This would definitely be good. I have Bluetooth disabled on my current phone almost all the time. As rarely as I use BT, there's no need to have it always on. I anticipate similar usage for wifi for me. So, I would love to be able to turn those two off and back from the icons at the top. -Steven On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 1:38 AM, Kyle Bassett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, Kyle Bassett writes: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and current battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions of their battery life. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery life go up and down accordingly. --pj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, Kyle Bassett writes: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and current battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions of their battery life. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery life go up and down accordingly. GTA02 is capable to dialogue with a smart battery that will allow you to see the battery actual voltage and current flow (together: actual power) in uA down /sys in realtime, it uses the linux Power Supply class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) The battery itself learns its cell performance over load and also makes available its time to full/empty estimate down /sys as well in seconds. You can see what data is available here: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/bq27000 You can see stuff like this for i in capacity charge_full current_now present status technology temp time_to_empty_now time_to_full_now type voltage_now ; do echo -n $i ; cat /sys/devices/platform/bq27000-battery.0/power_supply/bat/$i ; done capacity0 charge_full1215585 current_now183375 present1 statusDischarging technologyLi-ion temp276 time_to_empty_now0 time_to_full_now3932100 typeBattery voltage_now2761000 - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtG+yOjLpvpq7dMoRAq2TAJoCYOC+PD3gj/jRMpOPnBL5MZJkzQCfTJn4 9ebCrbNjtGtDMBsJuUXZ8HY= =ANtG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
For reference, the numbers I came up with are for absolute minimum power usage for GTA02. These figures are still *very* preliminary, but I wanted to convey the success of the last few weeks. We should probably expect a standby time closer to ~7 days, that way any improvement over this runtime will be to our benefit. As we all know, no lab environment or test bench can account for all of the scenarios in the real world, making it very difficult to approach perfect world operation. -Kyle On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:32 AM, joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Do 14. Februar 2008 schrieb Kyle Bassett: I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. No! Even in a perfect world, GSM-BS is telling to MS a T321-timecycle to reregister. So you have to add to this figure some seconds of full TX-power consumption e.g. every 40min. (put any cellphone near a walkman for some hours, and you may hear...) Please note that these things a controlled by BaseStation and dependent of current RF-quality (at least for MS-TX power), so you hardly will get reproduceable values with a simple test on desktop. Is there a RTC-Alarm in GTA02, to schedule the cron-jobs mentioned up-topic? cheers j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Andy - class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) Yes, I think we can confirm that every GTA02 will ship with this new 'smart' battery. There are more steps to go through internally, related to certification, some sort of calibration. Tony, do you know more details? The cell's capacity will increase slightly to 1250 mAh (before was 1200 mAh). I am trying to release the schematics for the small PCB inside the smart battery as well, will be posted to the wiki. Wolfgang On Feb 15, 2008, at 12:43 AM, Andy Green wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, Kyle Bassett writes: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and current battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions of their battery life. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery life go up and down accordingly. GTA02 is capable to dialogue with a smart battery that will allow you to see the battery actual voltage and current flow (together: actual power) in uA down /sys in realtime, it uses the linux Power Supply class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) The battery itself learns its cell performance over load and also makes available its time to full/empty estimate down /sys as well in seconds. You can see what data is available here: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/bq27000 You can see stuff like this for i in capacity charge_full current_now present status technology temp time_to_empty_now time_to_full_now type voltage_now ; do echo -n $i ; cat /sys/devices/platform/bq27000-battery.0/power_supply/bat/ $i ; done capacity0 charge_full1215585 current_now183375 present1 statusDischarging technologyLi-ion temp276 time_to_empty_now0 time_to_full_now3932100 typeBattery voltage_now2761000 - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtG+yOjLpvpq7dMoRAq2TAJoCYOC+PD3gj/jRMpOPnBL5MZJkzQCfTJn4 9ebCrbNjtGtDMBsJuUXZ8HY= =ANtG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Is this smart battery (internal circuitry+cell) custom via OM, or third party? On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy - class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) Yes, I think we can confirm that every GTA02 will ship with this new 'smart' battery. There are more steps to go through internally, related to certification, some sort of calibration. Tony, do you know more details? The cell's capacity will increase slightly to 1250 mAh (before was 1200 mAh). I am trying to release the schematics for the small PCB inside the smart battery as well, will be posted to the wiki. Wolfgang On Feb 15, 2008, at 12:43 AM, Andy Green wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, Kyle Bassett writes: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and current battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions of their battery life. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery life go up and down accordingly. GTA02 is capable to dialogue with a smart battery that will allow you to see the battery actual voltage and current flow (together: actual power) in uA down /sys in realtime, it uses the linux Power Supply class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) The battery itself learns its cell performance over load and also makes available its time to full/empty estimate down /sys as well in seconds. You can see what data is available here: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/bq27000 You can see stuff like this for i in capacity charge_full current_now present status technology temp time_to_empty_now time_to_full_now type voltage_now ; do echo -n $i ; cat /sys/devices/platform/bq27000-battery.0/power_supply/bat/ $i ; done capacity0 charge_full1215585 current_now183375 present1 statusDischarging technologyLi-ion temp276 time_to_empty_now0 time_to_full_now3932100 typeBattery voltage_now2761000 - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtG+yOjLpvpq7dMoRAq2TAJoCYOC+PD3gj/jRMpOPnBL5MZJkzQCfTJn4 9ebCrbNjtGtDMBsJuUXZ8HY= =ANtG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On 14/02/2008, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Kyle for a great summary of the work being discussed on the kernel ML. I am simply not able to keep up with all the lists and very much appreciate your helping out here. Michael indeed, thanks for the info kyle. i've been avidly following the dev cycle of the software/hardware here, and it's good to see some technical info from the kernel ML, 95% of which is over my head would it be possible for someone - michael, kyle? - to give an update on this kind of info on a regular basis? i'm sure there are plenty of others eager for technical progress, but who are unlikely to venture on the kernel list? Kyle Bassett wrote: I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. The goal is set around 1mA-2mA of suspend current draw, with best case scenario suspend time of ~50 days (sure beats 4 hours... :-P ). There are also issues such as internal battery discharge, ~30% over 90 days for one of the packs that is being considered, which will reduce the final suspend runtime available. Currently, work continues attempting to shave even more power consumption from a sleeping Freerunner. Individual power consumption of the different internal devices is still taking place, that way any user can approximate their battery lifetime (but each internal device has a few different states, making this a tedious task). In the very near future, we should see some numbers coming in about the talk runtime, once some GSM power state issues are resolved. There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: Can GTA01 users upgrade to this battery and would it make sense to do so? Not without hacking the device and the drivers and only then if you can find a GPIO that comes out to a resistor or something you can wire up to. The third pin on the GTA01 battery is a temperature sense pin and it goes off to an ADC input on the PMU, which makes complete sense for what that is. But it can't be exploited for the HDQ protocol on the smart battery without some difficult hack. Basically as a rule hardware is set in stone, it goes double when it is micro BGAs and so on like this hardware, there's not much anyone can do about that. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtMFrOjLpvpq7dMoRAgfGAJ9s3V1tbTjQOTUquKHl+2/1A0AqlQCdFE8G ZIZ4DEHSwPjnxpnEOOUXZqQ= =okMj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Am Do 14. Februar 2008 schrieb Andy Green: Basically as a rule hardware is set in stone, it goes double when it is micro BGAs and so on like this hardware, there's not much anyone can do about that. That's the reason why polite PCB-designers are planning for a NC-via at least for those BGA-contacts, that you won't get a hold on otherwise. Of course this adds about 2 cent to the costs of PCB for each via, and thus never is done by any commercial hw-mf (except those who had a major field-change-order issue in their history). On the other hand, what's the tools to open the case worth for, which surely add to total cost of product as well? Of course a few vias don't already make a nice protoboard yet, but at least *some* users with smd-soldering experience may benefit. As long as they had some schematics anyway. All this very suboptimal with regard to an open phone. All my Sony-gadgets are more open, when it comes to this. At least for those i got pretty nice service-manuals incl. circuit diagrams for free. cheers j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: Is this smart battery (internal circuitry+cell) custom via OM, or third party? I dunno the answer to this, but the smart battery is the same physical footprint as the GTA01 one if that helps make a guess. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtMr6OjLpvpq7dMoRAhZ1AJ4m46Eeh4+iW9dvJAfK9cXRwcsF0gCePL4v 41tDd+pYLf4T/cGbwoGXlrQ= =J/At -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Am Fr 15. Februar 2008 schrieb Andy Green: As I say it matters a bit less because so many signals are unavailable anyway, but of course I really understand the point of having them. To offset it a little there are bunch of testpoints which are annotated on the board and will be annotated in the wiki, there are things like I2C and LVTTL UART on there to leverage somewhat. So i hope there's a testpoint for each unused valuable (hidden) pin at least, like GPIO (if any left, at any chip [Wolfson mixer]), the LineIN/Out pins marked unused in Wolfson mixer Wiki(GTA01), videoIn/Out(?), etc... That's just fine, for nobody really needs access to *buses* (hmm, on a second thought - adding some RAM... A real challenge :-). And for circuit diagrams, let's wait and see how much time it takes till first third party reverse engineered diagrams will be available. btw: tapping 0402R is my hobby to calm down ;-) cheers j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: So i hope there's a testpoint for each unused valuable (hidden) pin at It didn't happen I am afraid. There is some IO to be had at the testpoints, but mainly they are just that -- test points. For example if you didn't have the BT module you can get a second USB 1.1 host and some GPIO, no WLAN you can have SDIO and some GPIO from gold testpoints that are relatively easy to access. In the end it is trying to be a phone rather than an embedded controller. Still for quite a few embedded tasks I2C or LVTTL UART -- let's not forget USB OTG 12Mbps host from the mini USB B connector -- will be enough to make a practical solution though. btw: tapping 0402R is my hobby to calm down ;-) LOL - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtN9uOjLpvpq7dMoRAr2HAJ0XNFmIbLgeAokClQ2pve9buJr5zgCePSVy ZGfjPPKBPw1r71HU/PjRBOM= =rqzt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Am Fr 15. Februar 2008 schrieb Andy Green: Still for quite a few embedded tasks I2C or LVTTL UART -- let's not forget USB OTG 12Mbps host from the mini USB B connector -- will be enough to make a practical solution though. Good point! If i need additional GPIO, so what. I got I2C, so i just chain up some with a dirt cheap chip. The interfacing of the smart battery in GTA01 shouldn't be a big thing this way. Homebrew I2C-GPIO driver, patching GPIO_Bat DEF in src for GTA02 smartbat driver. So real issue left for some projects is which power should i use (especially for those devices that don't do their own power-down). And i wonder whether there will be *good* (near circuit diagram) specs for the connectors. I.E.: *-what kind of OverVoltage-Protection (clamp-diodes etc) / HF-blocking / ground potential..., can i expect behind any external connector. *-What exactly is the impedance (R, C) of headset out, what are the absolute maximum ratings (so i may figure out e.g. whether the headset out makes for a high-quality (HiFi) 1,[EMAIL PROTECTED] line out, or should i plan for a 56R load instead of the standard 10k-50k). *-USB-host power shortcircuit...? Will it blow my battery or whole NEO up in smoke? ;-). *-etc. For questions like these i'm used to refer to a c.diagram. If they are answered verbatim somewhere, i'm fine with it. j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Wolfgang Spraul ??: Andy - class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) Yes, I think we can confirm that every GTA02 will ship with this new 'smart' battery. There are more steps to go through internally, related to certification, some sort of calibration. Tony, do you know more details? The cell's capacity will increase slightly to 1250 mAh (before was 1200 mAh). The battery cell is 1250mAh for GTA02 coulomb battery cell, and the coulomb counter setting for battery will around 1200mAh, but not confirm all parameter from hardware side yet. The battery was smart battery, and they will learn the charging curve during each charge. So the mA number on the sticker or on the battery cell documentation will not that precise during the daily use. And we change to new coulomb battery, will need re-do some certification test for FCC/CE. They are proceeding now. Tony Tu ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Nick Guenther wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 4:04 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. If you find any place on the wiki that says something other than 1200mA, can you please make the correction? You may reference this email. Oh. That's... really disappointing. The battery life is already unusable, and the faster processor and wifi will just make this even worse. We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. In fact if you look in the archives of the kernel mailing list you will see that a tremendous amount of progress has happened over the past few days. I think the current SVN code supports a much improved suspend mode that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. And work continues. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Michael Shiloh wrote: We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. [...] that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. Twelve hours is great compared to the five the GTA01 gets now, but it's maybe a third of what I'd consider to be the absolute minimum for a usable phone. Can you give us an idea of how many hours of talk and standby you expect the phone to provide once all of these planned changes have been made? I want an OpenMoko because I want to carry a computer in my pocket. I want to run cron jobs that fetch content from the web. I want to use it as a wifi web browser. I want to turn it into a gps cycle-computer. And I want it to be my phone, which means that when I've done all of the above, it needs enough battery left at midnight to call a tow-truck when my car breaks down. My Treo 650 has an 1800 mAh battery, and even when it was new I never got more than three days off a full charge. Now that it's a few years old, I can barely make two days. If the GTA02 needs charging every day, after maybe a year the battery will be aging, and won't even last a whole day. That's not going to be very practical. Are you guys sure that 1200 mAh is going to cut it for what amounts to a portable computer? -- -- Dirk Bergstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://otisbean.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. The goal is set around 1mA-2mA of suspend current draw, with best case scenario suspend time of ~50 days (sure beats 4 hours... :-P ). There are also issues such as internal battery discharge, ~30% over 90 days for one of the packs that is being considered, which will reduce the final suspend runtime available. Currently, work continues attempting to shave even more power consumption from a sleeping Freerunner. Individual power consumption of the different internal devices is still taking place, that way any user can approximate their battery lifetime (but each internal device has a few different states, making this a tedious task). In the very near future, we should see some numbers coming in about the talk runtime, once some GSM power state issues are resolved. There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). It's nice to have some good news, everyone keep up the good work! -Kyle On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick Guenther wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 4:04 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. If you find any place on the wiki that says something other than 1200mA, can you please make the correction? You may reference this email. Oh. That's... really disappointing. The battery life is already unusable, and the faster processor and wifi will just make this even worse. We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. In fact if you look in the archives of the kernel mailing list you will see that a tremendous amount of progress has happened over the past few days. I think the current SVN code supports a much improved suspend mode that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. And work continues. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Uncle Kridley wrote: Michael Shiloh wrote: We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. [...] that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. Twelve hours is great compared to the five the GTA01 gets now, but it's maybe a third of what I'd consider to be the absolute minimum for a usable phone. I agree. I tried to make it clear that we're not done. Can you give us an idea of how many hours of talk and standby you expect the phone to provide once all of these planned changes have been made? Not yet. I want an OpenMoko because I want to carry a computer in my pocket. I want to run cron jobs that fetch content from the web. I want to use it as a wifi web browser. I want to turn it into a gps cycle-computer. And I want it to be my phone, which means that when I've done all of the above, it needs enough battery left at midnight to call a tow-truck when my car breaks down. My Treo 650 has an 1800 mAh battery, and even when it was new I never got more than three days off a full charge. Now that it's a few years old, I can barely make two days. If the GTA02 needs charging every day, after maybe a year the battery will be aging, and won't even last a whole day. That's not going to be very practical. Are you guys sure that 1200 mAh is going to cut it for what amounts to a portable computer? I don't know what we're sure of in this regard. In summary: 1. We have made much progress 2. We are aware of more improvements we can make 3. We don't know (yet) what all these improvements will get us Sincerely, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Thanks Kyle for a great summary of the work being discussed on the kernel ML. I am simply not able to keep up with all the lists and very much appreciate your helping out here. Michael Kyle Bassett wrote: I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. The goal is set around 1mA-2mA of suspend current draw, with best case scenario suspend time of ~50 days (sure beats 4 hours... :-P ). There are also issues such as internal battery discharge, ~30% over 90 days for one of the packs that is being considered, which will reduce the final suspend runtime available. Currently, work continues attempting to shave even more power consumption from a sleeping Freerunner. Individual power consumption of the different internal devices is still taking place, that way any user can approximate their battery lifetime (but each internal device has a few different states, making this a tedious task). In the very near future, we should see some numbers coming in about the talk runtime, once some GSM power state issues are resolved. There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). It's nice to have some good news, everyone keep up the good work! -Kyle On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick Guenther wrote: On Feb 8, 2008 4:04 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. If you find any place on the wiki that says something other than 1200mA, can you please make the correction? You may reference this email. Oh. That's... really disappointing. The battery life is already unusable, and the faster processor and wifi will just make this even worse. We are well aware of software changes we need to make in order to improve battery and have simply not had the time to do this. You can expect much better battery life when we implement these changes. In fact if you look in the archives of the kernel mailing list you will see that a tremendous amount of progress has happened over the past few days. I think the current SVN code supports a much improved suspend mode that my very simple testing suggests should last for well over 12 hours. And work continues. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On Saturday 09 February 2008, Shawn Rutledge wrote: At least the 1973-compatible Nokia batteries will probably be available for a long time (as I'm hoping the Nokia 770 batteries will be), but there is still the problem with charging them (the phone cannot do it). The rule of thumb is that no LiIon battery will last longer than 3 years or so. I think we are probably safe on that. The Nokia BL5C is used in quite a lot of different Nokia phones, including a number of very low cost models for developing countries. Those phones will get manufactured in huge numbers (perhaps 100 million), and will be around for a long time. Due to their huge numbers, and the fact that some of the owners won't have the money to upgrade for a long time, I doubt spare parts availability will be a problem. You might consider buying one of these cheap phones, both as a backup to use if a software update renders you Neo 1973 temporally unusable, and to charge the spare battery. I have a Nokia 1100, as a spare, and I use it's battery interchangeably with other devices. -- David Pottage ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. If you find any place on the wiki that says something other than 1200mA, can you please make the correction? You may reference this email. Michael Michael Shiloh wrote: (Please help by changing the subject when the topic changes) I'll look into this. Michael Denis wrote: The wiki page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware says 1200mAh lithium battery charges when connected to powered host, but the page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Battery says it's a 1700mAh one. So where is the typo? 2008/2/6, Christopher Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Maybe a typo in the GTA02 hardware wiki, here is the link http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware Denis [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/05/08 8:04 PM The wiki history showes that Feb, 3rd it still was 1700mAh. Can anybody from OpenMoko confirm whether it is correct? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 01:04 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote: Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. Hello Michael, I guess many people would like to have a second battery - is there any chance that you make them available? Openmoko on the Neo is now good enough for daily use, yet it is running out of battery quickly. Maybe one of the distributors would be happy to take a batch of them into stock? Can you check on this for us? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On Friday 08 February 2008 17:29:36 Steven ** wrote: Search the archives. There's some Nokia battery that is apparently a drop-in replacement for the Neo1973's battery. Almost. Unfortunately the Bl-5C has only 850mAh and for some reason the Neo doesn't charge it. A DT-14 help for the latter. :M: -- Dr. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | IT-Freelancer | http://www.vanille-media.de ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 10:29 -0600, Steven ** wrote: Search the archives. There's some Nokia battery that is apparently a drop-in replacement for the Neo1973's battery. They discovered this a long time ago. The Nokia batteries are AFAIK not a drop-in replacement. According to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery the Neo doesn't charge the Nokia Batteries. Has this changed? If not, it would be great to be able to buy a Neo battery. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On Feb 8, 2008 4:04 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've researched this a little, and this is what I've learned: 1. We are still looking at a number of different batteries, so there is no final capacity or feature set determined yet. 2. The capacity will most likely be around 1200mA. If you find any place on the wiki that says something other than 1200mA, can you please make the correction? You may reference this email. Oh. That's... really disappointing. The battery life is already unusable, and the faster processor and wifi will just make this even worse. -Nick ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More about the GTA02
The wiki page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware says 1200mAh lithium battery charges when connected to powered host, but the page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Battery says it's a 1700mAh one. So where is the typo? 2008/2/6, Christopher Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Maybe a typo in the GTA02 hardware wiki, here is the link http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware Denis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/05/08 8:04 PM The wiki history showes that Feb, 3rd it still was 1700mAh. Can anybody from OpenMoko confirm whether it is correct? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More about the GTA02
So what is it that is different from the old spec? Is it just the 850 mhz version? Christopher Earl wrote: the specs have changed (very slightly) * Atheros 802.11 b/g WiFi * Samsung S3C2442 B54 SoC @ 400Mhz * SMedia Glamo3362 Graphics Accelerator * 2x ST 3D Accelerometers * 256MB Flash * 128MB SDRAM * 2MB NOR Flash * 1200mAh Battery * 2 LEDs illuminating the two buttons. * u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 GPS * Bluetooth * 850/1800/1900 Mhz or 900/1800/1900 Mhz for GSM/GPRS * USB Host function with power So anyone in NorthAmerica (mainly the states) needs to add that they want the 850/1800/1900 GSM bands, I dont have a clue about how thats going to work ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More about the GTA02
I said very slightly Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/06/08 11:57 AM So what is it that is different from the old spec? Is it just the 850 mhz version? Christopher Earl wrote: the specs have changed (very slightly) * Atheros 802.11 b/g WiFi * Samsung S3C2442 B54 SoC @ 400Mhz * SMedia Glamo3362 Graphics Accelerator * 2x ST 3D Accelerometers * 256MB Flash * 128MB SDRAM * 2MB NOR Flash * 1200mAh Battery * 2 LEDs illuminating the two buttons. * u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 GPS * Bluetooth * 850/1800/1900 Mhz or 900/1800/1900 Mhz for GSM/GPRS * USB Host function with power So anyone in NorthAmerica (mainly the states) needs to add that they want the 850/1800/1900 GSM bands, I dont have a clue about how thats going to work ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
(Please help by changing the subject when the topic changes) I'll look into this. Michael Denis wrote: The wiki page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware says 1200mAh lithium battery charges when connected to powered host, but the page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Battery says it's a 1700mAh one. So where is the typo? 2008/2/6, Christopher Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Maybe a typo in the GTA02 hardware wiki, here is the link http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware Denis [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/05/08 8:04 PM The wiki history showes that Feb, 3rd it still was 1700mAh. Can anybody from OpenMoko confirm whether it is correct? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More about the GTA02
Um, just wondering what the differences were since the wiki seems to list the same information as here. I checked the wiki history, it looks like mainly more specific information about the components. I didn't see anything there about the 850 mhz change though. One recent change is from a stereo to mono amplifier for analog output. I'm guessing/hoping that this is the amplifier that powers the mono speaker, and that we'll still have stereo output for headphones? I guess with powered usb you could use a usb audio converter, but it would be nice to have it built in. Christopher Earl wrote: I said very slightly Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/06/08 11:57 AM So what is it that is different from the old spec? Is it just the 850 mhz version? Christopher Earl wrote: the specs have changed (very slightly) * Atheros 802.11 b/g WiFi * Samsung S3C2442 B54 SoC @ 400Mhz * SMedia Glamo3362 Graphics Accelerator * 2x ST 3D Accelerometers * 256MB Flash * 128MB SDRAM * 2MB NOR Flash * 1200mAh Battery * 2 LEDs illuminating the two buttons. * u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 GPS * Bluetooth * 850/1800/1900 Mhz or 900/1800/1900 Mhz for GSM/GPRS * USB Host function with power So anyone in NorthAmerica (mainly the states) needs to add that they want the 850/1800/1900 GSM bands, I dont have a clue about how thats going to work ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More about the GTA02
1700 would be hard to believe. It's too small. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
More about the GTA02
the specs have changed (very slightly) * Atheros 802.11 b/g WiFi * Samsung S3C2442 B54 SoC @ 400Mhz * SMedia Glamo3362 Graphics Accelerator * 2x ST 3D Accelerometers * 256MB Flash * 128MB SDRAM * 2MB NOR Flash * 1200mAh Battery * 2 LEDs illuminating the two buttons. * u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 GPS * Bluetooth * 850/1800/1900 Mhz or 900/1800/1900 Mhz for GSM/GPRS * USB Host function with power So anyone in NorthAmerica (mainly the states) needs to add that they want the 850/1800/1900 GSM bands, I dont have a clue about how thats going to work ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More about the GTA02
Christopher Earl schrieb: the specs have changed (very slightly) * Atheros 802.11 b/g WiFi * Samsung S3C2442 B54 SoC @ 400Mhz * SMedia Glamo3362 Graphics Accelerator * 2x ST 3D Accelerometers * 256MB Flash * 128MB SDRAM * 2MB NOR Flash * 1200mAh Battery * 2 LEDs illuminating the two buttons. * u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 GPS ah, ublox GPS, very nice! Which one is that, Antaris 4 or Antaris5? * Bluetooth * 850/1800/1900 Mhz or 900/1800/1900 Mhz for GSM/GPRS * USB Host function with power So anyone in NorthAmerica (mainly the states) needs to add that they want the 850/1800/1900 GSM bands, I dont have a clue about how thats going to work Cheers nils faerber -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More about the GTA02
1200mAh battery? Is it a mistake?! It use to be 1700mAh! I think 1200mAh is too few for 400 mhz CPU, wi-fi and everything... 2008/2/5, Christopher Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: the specs have changed (very slightly) * Atheros 802.11 b/g WiFi * Samsung S3C2442 B54 SoC @ 400Mhz * SMedia Glamo3362 Graphics Accelerator * 2x ST 3D Accelerometers * 256MB Flash * 128MB SDRAM * 2MB NOR Flash * 1200mAh Battery * 2 LEDs illuminating the two buttons. * u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 GPS * Bluetooth * 850/1800/1900 Mhz or 900/1800/1900 Mhz for GSM/GPRS * USB Host function with power So anyone in NorthAmerica (mainly the states) needs to add that they want the 850/1800/1900 GSM bands, I dont have a clue about how thats going to work ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More about the GTA02
Thats whats listed in the WiKi Denis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/05/08 5:08 PM 1200mAh battery? Is it a mistake?! It use to be 1700mAh! I think 1200mAh is too few for 400 mhz CPU, wi-fi and everything... 2008/2/5, Christopher Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: the specs have changed (very slightly) * Atheros 802.11 b/g WiFi * Samsung S3C2442 B54 SoC @ 400Mhz * SMedia Glamo3362 Graphics Accelerator * 2x ST 3D Accelerometers * 256MB Flash * 128MB SDRAM * 2MB NOR Flash * 1200mAh Battery * 2 LEDs illuminating the two buttons. * u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 GPS * Bluetooth * 850/1800/1900 Mhz or 900/1800/1900 Mhz for GSM/GPRS * USB Host function with power So anyone in NorthAmerica (mainly the states) needs to add that they want the 850/1800/1900 GSM bands, I dont have a clue about how thats going to work ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More about the GTA02
The wiki history showes that Feb, 3rd it still was 1700mAh. Can anybody from OpenMoko confirm whether it is correct? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: More about the GTA02
Maybe a typo in the GTA02 hardware wiki, here is the link http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware Denis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/05/08 8:04 PM The wiki history showes that Feb, 3rd it still was 1700mAh. Can anybody from OpenMoko confirm whether it is correct? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
