Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Roy J. Tellason, Sr.]

On Friday 09 February 2024 04:41:37 pm hw wrote:
> On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 11:34 -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > On Friday 09 February 2024 06:07:16 am hw wrote:
> > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?
> >  
> > I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and
> > has 2-1/2 times the capabiliity.  Been in service several weeks and
> > so far I'm pretty happy with it...
> 
> They seem to be extremely rare here.  

Where's "here"?  I ordered mine from Home Depot,  online.  The wait until it 
arrived didn't seem excessive.

> Are they any good, and how's the battery availability?

It seems okay,  and I haven't checked on the battery availability,  no need at 
this point and if I did it'd probably change by the time I needed them anyhow. 



-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[David Wright]

On Fri 09 Feb 2024 at 22:28:28 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> When you live on a power grid, extended outages are much less common than 
> when on
> or near waterfront or political boundaries. Most of Florida's population has 
> no
> out-of-state neighbors to share utilities with, making its grid more fragile.
> Being the lightning capital of the world doesn't help either.

Of the US, sure. But I don't think FL can compete with Maracaibo.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[hw]

On Sat, 2024-02-10 at 18:40 +, Joe wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:45:29 +0100
> hw  wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > The cheap APC models seem to produce a lot more heat, and their
> > batteries don't seem to last as long.  They work and they're not
> > really a good deal.  I don't have test equipment for UPCs, but you can
> > feel how warm they get and see how cheaply they're built without
> > special equipment.
> > 
> 
> It's quite surprising how many complaints about swollen UPS batteries
> there are around the Net. Given the fairly light duties of the batteries
> almost all of the time, this is pretty well certain to be caused by
> overheating due to incompetent charging. Batteries, particularly
> lead-acid types, are not exactly new technology, and the correct
> charging of them is well understood.
> 

The batteries in the cheap ones were not swollen.  They're just no fun
to replace.

Perhaps they use cheaper components that are less efficient and thus
create more heat.  That doesn't necessarily affect the batteries.

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[gene heskett]

On 2/10/24 13:40, Joe wrote:

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:45:29 +0100
hw  wrote:




The cheap APC models seem to produce a lot more heat, and their
batteries don't seem to last as long.  They work and they're not
really a good deal.  I don't have test equipment for UPCs, but you can
feel how warm they get and see how cheaply they're built without
special equipment.



It's quite surprising how many complaints about swollen UPS batteries
there are around the Net. Given the fairly light duties of the batteries
almost all of the time, this is pretty well certain to be caused by
overheating due to incompetent charging. Batteries, particularly
lead-acid types, are not exactly new technology, and the correct
charging of them is well understood.

You have an excellent view of the problem.  One of the problems with PBa 
batteries is the each one of the gender has a mind of its own, and If 
you don't fiddle with the charging circuit, you will never find the 
optimum voltage to charge that battery to.  One of the things you never 
ever want to is look into a liquid acid battery and see it bubbling. 
That indicates and overcharge, the bubbling is the disassociated 
hydrogen and oxygen of the water component of the acid, which makes the 
water go away, leaving eve stronger acid..  Two instances I can regale 
you with.


1. shortly after I became the resident engineer at KXNE in NE Nebraska 
in '69, the two big truck batteries that started the 150 kw Cummins 
standby power failed, basically burned up from over charge. Replacing 
the batteries, they boiled like crazy.  So I turn down the curent from a 
charger with a higher resistor, because it was banging over 2 amps into 
the 2 of then to get the 24 the starter needed but that was holding 
those up to around 29 volts. The next day I raised the resistor about 4x 
as they were still boiling. Wash, rinse, repeat till the trickle charge 
was down to around .005 amps.  This was all it took for a trickle charge 
for a pair of 225ah large car batteries kept clean. 8 years later I'm 
bored out of my skull and had an offer to be the Chief at a station in 
NM, offering a 175% raise so I took it. Those batteries were then 8 
years old, and still were trying to turn that 335 Cummins wrong side out 
starting it. When the weekly 15 minute exercise came up you heard the 
bendix slam into the flywheel, followed milliseconds later by the first 
bark, and 1 measly second later the lights were back on


2. While in Nebraska, it can get pretty cold, like -35F once in a while. 
I had put an ambulance alternator in my daily driver, and made a 
switching regulator for the voltage regulator but in series with the 
voltage reference zener diode, I added 4 common si rectifier diodes to 
use their negative temp effects to turn it up or down according to the 
underhood temps.  15 seconds after a -25F start, it had the battery back 
up to about 16 volts, but 20 minutes and 20 miles later it was down to 
abound 12.7 volts, and on a 105F day down to around 12.3 volts.  That 
battery was then about 7 years old, still had its original water in it, 
spun the engine faster than it idled, when the missus threw a rod. The 
only thing I didn't get a chance to salvage was that alternator, the 
missus sold it to a junk yard the next day before I had a chance to pull 
it off.


Getting to know the battery and how to treat it could bankrupt all the 
replacement battery makers. The acid SG is important, reject any battery 
whose label says SG is 1.280. buy the one that says 1.260, It will be a 
fraction of a volt lower, but treated right will actually live years 
longer. Modern gel cell's are even more quickly destroyed by over charging.


Your trivia factoid for the day, from somebody who understands the 
chemistry.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[hw]

On Sat, 2024-02-10 at 08:57 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
> hw composed on 2024-02-10 11:01 (UTC+0100):
> 
> > On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 22:28 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> > > Those from the above URL are the same spec batteries used in many APC 
> > > models.
> 
> > Maybe, maybe not.  I couldn't get replacement batteries for the UPS
> > from HP not only because HP was so ridiculous as to tell me that I
> > could pay for a support ticket to get a price for the batteries, but
> > also because the replacement batteries I could get had smaller
> > contacts.
> 
> Contact size is part of an SLA battery's specs. Small contacts are
> terminal type "F1". I've never encountered a UPS that uses them. All
> I've encountered use terminal type "F2", which is 1/4" or about
> 6.35mm wide spade.

I don't remember how wide the contacts are the UPS from HP uses.
6.35mm is probably a common size, same as yellow connectors use.
There are connectors of the same type that are wider than that.

> > At least you have some cooling.  Basically nobody here has that,
> > though it's probably becoming more widespread because it gets warmer
> > all the time, and it's unbearable in the summer.  Electricity is
> > insanely expensive here and keeps getting more expensive all the time.
> 
> It's a big planet. Where is your "here"?

Germany

> > Hm, if the OEM batteries actually lasted 5 years and if what you say
> > is true, they must have been some awesome batteries.  That UPS takes
> > two batteries which are tightly packed, and they can get very warm.
> 
> OEM batteries must hold up through warranties, so are probably more
> locally sourced for high quality rather than low cost from
> China. Less expensive UPS models might be designed for a shorter
> expected lifetime, overcharging more as they get older and heat
> takes its toll. It's not something very many consumers are equipped
> to test.

The cheap APC models seem to produce a lot more heat, and their
batteries don't seem to last as long.  They work and they're not
really a good deal.  I don't have test equipment for UPCs, but you can
feel how warm they get and see how cheaply they're built without
special equipment.

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[Felix Miata]

hw composed on 2024-02-10 11:01 (UTC+0100):

> On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 22:28 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

>> Those from the above URL are the same spec batteries used in many APC models.

> Maybe, maybe not.  I couldn't get replacement batteries for the UPS
> from HP not only because HP was so ridiculous as to tell me that I
> could pay for a support ticket to get a price for the batteries, but
> also because the replacement batteries I could get had smaller
> contacts.

Contact size is part of an SLA battery's specs. Small contacts are terminal type
"F1". I've never encountered a UPS that uses them. All I've encountered use
terminal type "F2", which is 1/4" or about 6.35mm wide spade.

> At least you have some cooling.  Basically nobody here has that,
> though it's probably becoming more widespread because it gets warmer
> all the time, and it's unbearable in the summer.  Electricity is
> insanely expensive here and keeps getting more expensive all the time.

It's a big planet. Where is your "here"?

> Hm, if the OEM batteries actually lasted 5 years and if what you say
> is true, they must have been some awesome batteries.  That UPS takes
> two batteries which are tightly packed, and they can get very warm.

OEM batteries must hold up through warranties, so are probably more locally
sourced for high quality rather than low cost from China. Less expensive UPS
models might be designed for a shorter expected lifetime, overcharging more as
they get older and heat takes its toll. It's not something very many consumers 
are
equipped to test.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 22:28 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
> hw composed on 2024-02-10 03:18 (UTC+0100):
> [...]
> > Well, having batteries shipped over from the US would probably cost
> > more than a new UPS.
> 
> They are made in China. Surely there are UK sellers.

It might be cheaper to ship them from China than from the UK.
Apparently there's some kind of agreement in place that makes shipping
stuff from China (or Hong Kong) cheap --- but I don't know if it
applies to UPS batteries.

> The URL was simply provided
> as a representative of specifications of a very common SLA battery for UPS 
> type.
> 
> > That rules out Liebert, Cyperpower and Triplite due to uncertain or no
> > availability.  That only leaves Eaton.
> 
> Those from the above URL are the same spec batteries used in many APC models.

Maybe, maybe not.  I couldn't get replacement batteries for the UPS
from HP not only because HP was so ridiculous as to tell me that I
could pay for a support ticket to get a price for the batteries, but
also because the replacement batteries I could get had smaller
contacts.  Since I didn't want to take the risk of burning down the
place because the smaller contacts might have melted under load, I
decided to get a new UPS.

It wasn't too bad because I had only payed 65 for the UPS, and the
batteries lasted about 3 years.  I hate having to trash a perfectly
good UPS just because the batteries aren't available, and shame on HP
for being so environmentally friendly as to make and sell one-way
UPSs.  That kind of thing should be illegal.

But it was a lesson about battery availability.

> > Does Eaton provide their own Linux software and/or do they accept
> > monitoring results from other software like nut (assuming that apcupsd
> > won't work for Eaton UPSs)?
> 
> Mine are all connected to a multitude of devices more to protect the
> hardware from a lousy power source. I don't try to use the
> software. When power fails, I shut things down when the outage lasts
> more than a few seconds.

Well, I need the UPSs monitored so the computer(s) can shutdown
properly.

> When you live on a power grid, extended outages are much less common
> than when on or near waterfront or political boundaries. Most of
> Florida's population has no out-of-state neighbors to share
> utilities with, making its grid more fragile. Being the lightning
> capital of the world doesn't help either.

Did they put the power lines into the ground water or something like
that?

> > > Here in FL, replacement battery life averages under 30 months, no
> > > matter the battery brand. OEM batteries have averaged more like 54.
> 
> > How is that?  Do you have frequent power outages that stress the
> > batteries so much?
> The nature of the beasts is that their use generates heat. These batteries 
> don't
> like heat. The cooler they can be kept, the longer they can last. My 
> thermostat
> temp setting in heating season is 78F, in cooling season 82F, and cooling 
> season
> is much longer than heating season. In climates where heating season is most 
> of
> the year and tstat is kept below 65F, I'm guessing likely they could last a 
> decade
> or more.

At least you have some cooling.  Basically nobody here has that,
though it's probably becoming more widespread because it gets warmer
all the time, and it's unbearable in the summer.  Electricity is
insanely expensive here and keeps getting more expensive all the time.

> Battery orientation within the unit probably makes a difference, and
> even more, separation, with worst orientation side-by-side with no
> air space between. It's not easy to learn about such specs prior to
> purchase. UPS makers seem to want to keep battery specs top secret,
> out of marketing materials, even from manuals.

Hm, if the OEM batteries actually lasted 5 years and if what you say
is true, they must have been some awesome batteries.  That UPS takes
two batteries which are tightly packed, and they can get very warm.

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[Felix Miata]

hw composed on 2024-02-10 03:18 (UTC+0100):

> On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 18:51 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

>> hw composed on 2024-02-09 22:45 (UTC+0100):
>> [...]
>>> Hm, Powercom doesn't seem to exist here, but Eaton seems to have good
>>> prices.  How's the battery availability with Eaton?

>> <https://batterysharks.com/csb-battery-hr1234w-battery-replacement-12v-9ah-version.html>
>> has the very common physical attributes used by all my Eaton, Tripp-Lite and
>> Powercom UPSes.

> Well, having batteries shipped over from the US would probably cost
> more than a new UPS.

They are made in China. Surely there are UK sellers. The URL was simply provided
as a representative of specifications of a very common SLA battery for UPS type.

> That rules out Liebert, Cyperpower and Triplite due to uncertain or no
> availability.  That only leaves Eaton.

Those from the above URL are the same spec batteries used in many APC models.

> Does Eaton provide their own Linux software and/or do they accept
> monitoring results from other software like nut (assuming that apcupsd
> won't work for Eaton UPSs)?

Mine are all connected to a multitude of devices more to protect the hardware 
from
a lousy power source. I don't try to use the software. When power fails, I shut
things down when the outage lasts more than a few seconds.

When you live on a power grid, extended outages are much less common than when 
on
or near waterfront or political boundaries. Most of Florida's population has no
out-of-state neighbors to share utilities with, making its grid more fragile.
Being the lightning capital of the world doesn't help either.

>> Here in FL, replacement battery life averages under 30 months, no
>> matter the battery brand. OEM batteries have averaged more like 54.

> How is that?  Do you have frequent power outages that stress the
> batteries so much?
The nature of the beasts is that their use generates heat. These batteries don't
like heat. The cooler they can be kept, the longer they can last. My thermostat
temp setting in heating season is 78F, in cooling season 82F, and cooling season
is much longer than heating season. In climates where heating season is most of
the year and tstat is kept below 65F, I'm guessing likely they could last a 
decade
or more.

Battery orientation within the unit probably makes a difference, and even more,
separation, with worst orientation side-by-side with no air space between. It's
not easy to learn about such specs prior to purchase. UPS makers seem to want to
keep battery specs top secret, out of marketing materials, even from manuals.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 18:51 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
> hw composed on 2024-02-09 22:45 (UTC+0100):
> [...]
> > Hm, Powercom doesn't seem to exist here, but Eaton seems to have good
> > prices.  How's the battery availability with Eaton?
> 
> <https://batterysharks.com/csb-battery-hr1234w-battery-replacement-12v-9ah-version.html>
> has the very common physical attributes used by all my Eaton, Tripp-Lite and
> Powercom UPSes.

Well, having batteries shipped over from the US would probably cost
more than a new UPS.  And the question is not so much if I can get the
batteries now but more if I can get them at reasonable prices in 20 or
30 years or later and every time in between when I need them.

That rules out Liebert, Cyperpower and Triplite due to uncertain or no
availability.  That only leaves Eaton.

Does Eaton provide their own Linux software and/or do they accept
monitoring results from other software like nut (assuming that apcupsd
won't work for Eaton UPSs)?

When I buy an UPS used so that there aren't any relevant warranty
issues APC might produce, am I not still better off buying APC because
the batteries are likely to be available?  Also, Eaton is very hard to
come by used while APC is very common here.

> Here in FL, replacement battery life averages under 30 months, no
> matter the battery brand. OEM batteries have averaged more like 54.

How is that?  Do you have frequent power outages that stress the
batteries so much?

54 months?  I'm getting confused now because I'm sure I replaced the
batteries in my 10-year-old APC UPS three times now, two times with
OEM batteries and last time --- recently --- with aftermarket ones
because they doubled the price for the OEM ones.  That would mean 5
years for the OEM batteries each --- and not 3 years like I said
before.

So 54 months could be right.  Now I'm curious to see how long the
aftermarket ones will last.

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[Felix Miata]

Stefan Monnier composed on 2024-02-09 12:18 (UTC-0500):

>>> What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?

>> I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and has
>> 2-1/2 times the capabiliity.  Been in service several weeks and so far I'm
>> pretty happy with it...

> Would they accept a warranty claim without having to run some
> proprietary software (diagnostic and/or OS)?

Do any of them require they be used only by computer owners? If you use one for
Linux and have an issue you expect would be covered by warranty, you might
consider withholding your application. Some people use them for home 
entertainment
centers and other electronic equipment that doesn't require Windows or MacOS. 
Just
make sure they don't hear you connected any fan, heater or other electric motor
bigger than the tiny ones propelling computer cooling fans.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[Felix Miata]

hw composed on 2024-02-09 22:45 (UTC+0100):

> On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 12:10 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

>> hw composed on 2024-02-09 12:07 (UTC+0100):

>> > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?

>> I bought my first APC just last year, because it was what I found on the 
>> shelf in
>> WalMart, only 450VA, with "Best-in-class Service and Support", more to 
>> protect
>> bedroom TV and recorder against anomalies than power outage here in the 
>> world's
>> lightning capital. All my larger ones that are currently in service are 
>> Eaton or
>> Tripp-Lite. My spare is a Powercom with steel frame and cover, hard to 
>> extract
>> swollen old batteries from.

> Hm, Powercom doesn't seem to exist here, but Eaton seems to have good
> prices.  How's the battery availability with Eaton?


has the very common physical attributes used by all my Eaton, Tripp-Lite and
Powercom UPSes. The Powercom 2200VA uses 4, shipped with (I think) the 7.5AH
variety. The other 3 use pairs. My 1000VA Eaton shipped with 7.5AH. My 1500VA
Tripp-Lites came with 9AH. When I replace I only get the 9AHs so that the 
orphans
that survive failure of a pair have the potential to better match the next 
orphan
and delay another purchase a few months or more. Here in FL, replacement battery
life averages under 30 months, no matter the battery brand. OEM batteries have
averaged more like 54.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Dan Ritter]

hw wrote: 
> On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 06:44 -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > hw wrote: 
> > > On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> > > > [...]
> > > That sucks.  I didn't know that they don't stand behind their
> > > products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer.
> > > 
> > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?
> > 
> > Liebert at the high end, CyberPower at the low end. 
> 
> I've never heard of Liebert, they are rather expensive.  Cyberpower
> seems to be cheap.
> 
> Are they any good, and how is the battery availability?  Can they even
> be monitored?

Liebert is very good, and -- as you said -- expensive. If you
are outfitting a datacenter, they are usually on the list.

Cyberpower is reasonably reliable; the batteries can be found
online. They are USB connected devices readable by NUT.

Some selected stats:

battery.charge: 100
battery.charge.low: 10
battery.charge.warning: 20
battery.runtime: 3060
battery.runtime.low: 300
battery.type: PbAcid
battery.voltage: 24.0
battery.voltage.nominal: 24
device.mfr: CPS
device.model: CST135XLU
device.type: ups
driver.name: usbhid-ups
driver.version: 2.8.0
driver.version.data: CyberPower HID 0.6
driver.version.internal: 0.47
driver.version.usb: libusb-1.0.26 (API: 0x1000109)
input.voltage: 121.0
input.voltage.nominal: 120
output.voltage: 121.0
ups.beeper.status: enabled
ups.load: 16
ups.mfr: CPS
ups.productid: 0501
ups.realpower.nominal: 810
ups.serial: CDQHX2004035
ups.vendorid: 0764

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 12:10 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
> hw composed on 2024-02-09 12:07 (UTC+0100):
> 
> > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?
> 
> I bought my first APC just last year, because it was what I found on the 
> shelf in
> WalMart, only 450VA, with "Best-in-class Service and Support", more to protect
> bedroom TV and recorder against anomalies than power outage here in the 
> world's
> lightning capital. All my larger ones that are currently in service are Eaton 
> or
> Tripp-Lite. My spare is a Powercom with steel frame and cover, hard to extract
> swollen old batteries from.

Hm, Powercom doesn't seem to exist here, but Eaton seems to have good
prices.  How's the battery availability with Eaton?

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 11:34 -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Friday 09 February 2024 06:07:16 am hw wrote:
> > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?
>  
> I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and
> has 2-1/2 times the capabiliity.  Been in service several weeks and
> so far I'm pretty happy with it...

They seem to be extremely rare here.  Are they any good, and how's the
battery availability?

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 06:44 -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:
> hw wrote: 
> > On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> > > [...]
> > That sucks.  I didn't know that they don't stand behind their
> > products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer.
> > 
> > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?
> 
> Liebert at the high end, CyberPower at the low end. 

I've never heard of Liebert, they are rather expensive.  Cyberpower
seems to be cheap.

Are they any good, and how is the battery availability?  Can they even
be monitored?

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[debian-user]

Felix Miata  wrote:
> hw composed on 2024-02-09 12:07 (UTC+0100):
> 
> > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?  
> 
> I bought my first APC just last year, because it was what I found on
> the shelf in WalMart, only 450VA, with "Best-in-class Service and
> Support", more to protect bedroom TV and recorder against anomalies
> than power outage here in the world's lightning capital. All my
> larger ones that are currently in service are Eaton or Tripp-Lite. My
> spare is a Powercom with steel frame and cover, hard to extract
> swollen old batteries from.

FWIW Eaton owns Tripp Lite, whilst APC is owned by Schneider Electric.

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Stefan Monnier]

>> What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?
> I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and has
> 2-1/2 times the capabiliity.  Been in service several weeks and so far I'm
> pretty happy with it...

Would they accept a warranty claim without having to run some
proprietary software (diagnostic and/or OS)?


Stefan

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[Felix Miata]

hw composed on 2024-02-09 12:07 (UTC+0100):

> What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?

I bought my first APC just last year, because it was what I found on the shelf 
in
WalMart, only 450VA, with "Best-in-class Service and Support", more to protect
bedroom TV and recorder against anomalies than power outage here in the world's
lightning capital. All my larger ones that are currently in service are Eaton or
Tripp-Lite. My spare is a Powercom with steel frame and cover, hard to extract
swollen old batteries from.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Roy J. Tellason, Sr.]

On Friday 09 February 2024 06:07:16 am hw wrote:
> What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?
 
I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and has 2-1/2 
times the capabiliity.  Been in service several weeks and so far I'm pretty 
happy with it...


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Dan Ritter]

hw wrote: 
> On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> > [...]
> That sucks.  I didn't know that they don't stand behind their
> products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer.
> 
> What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?

Liebert at the high end, CyberPower at the low end. 

-dsr-

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[hw]

On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> [...]
> Someone on the apcupsd mailing list thinks I have a faulty UPS or
> battery and should get a replacement.
> 
> APC refuses to proceed with a warranty claim because they don't
> support apcupsd or nut, only their own proprietary Powerchute. They
> won't proceed unless I can get Powerchute to show these events or a
> failed self-test.

That sucks.  I didn't know that they don't stand behind their
products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer.

What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?

> [...]
> Having said that, I don't need to do a warranty claim. As it was
> only purchased a couple of weeks ago, consumer law allows me to
> return it to the seller as faulty whether they accept that or not,
> so I'll likely do that. It's just disappointing and a lot more
> hassle.

That seems like the best option.  You can then buy from a better
manufacturer which may avoid having trouble with APC later if there's
a problem.

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[Michael Kjörling]

On 8 Feb 2024 16:34 -, from cu...@free.fr (Curt):
> I wonder if he could run the app on one of these virtual machines for
> evaluation purposes:

Using an evaluation copy of Windows with USB pass-through might be the
easiest way to run APC's proprietary software.

Or since that's an option, just return the UPS as a "I changed my
mind". Whether or not it's technically broken, seems to me that it's
clearly not healthy.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Curt]

On 2024-02-08, Charles Curley  wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 15:29:21 +
> Andy Smith  wrote:
>
>> I do not overly want to buy a Windows licence, run it
>> in a VM and pass USB through to that VM just to try this.
>
> You could try wine. You might need the more recent crossover-office,
> which is proprietary (but contributes greatly to wine).
>

I wonder if he could run the app on one of these virtual machines for
evaluation purposes:

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virtual-machines/

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 15:29:21 +
Andy Smith  wrote:

> I do not overly want to buy a Windows licence, run it
> in a VM and pass USB through to that VM just to try this.

You could try wine. You might need the more recent crossover-office,
which is proprietary (but contributes greatly to wine).

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 06:55:04PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> So, I must admit, I am quite tempted by BX1600MI which would cost me
> about £183. The equivalent spec in the Pro range is more than twice
> this price.

[ TL;DR: While free software like apcupsd or nut support all APC
  models that you can buy today, APC (Schneider Electric) the
  company only supports its own Windows-only Powerchute and won't do
  a warranty claim unless you can run that. I therefore question the
  device's suitability to a Linux environment. ]

Just as an update, I bought the APC Back-UPS BX1600MI and while
superficially it seems fine, using "apcupsd" and/or "nut" it reports
a constant stream of short-lived (less than 1 second) battery
detach/re-attach and powerfail/restore events.

The unit itself doesn't show any audible or visual alarm but as
these events are sub-second in duration I don't know if they are
just too quick for that.

Someone on the apcupsd mailing list thinks I have a faulty UPS or
battery and should get a replacement.

APC refuses to proceed with a warranty claim because they don't
support apcupsd or nut, only their own proprietary Powerchute. They
won't proceed unless I can get Powerchute to show these events or a
failed self-test. I can't do that because I don't have any Windows
machines. I do not overly want to buy a Windows licence, run it
in a VM and pass USB through to that VM just to try this.

While in theory if I had heeded the warnings about Back-UPS being of
lesser quality I might have bought a more expensive model that
wasn't faulty (or at least did not have this problem, whatever it
is), I am disappointed to learn that APC will not proceed with
warranty claims unless you can run some Windows software, which puts
me off the entire product range.

Having said that, I don't need to do a warranty claim. As it was
only purchased a couple of weeks ago, consumer law allows me to
return it to the seller as faulty whether they accept that or not,
so I'll likely do that. It's just disappointing and a lot more
hassle.

Thanks,
Andy

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync--delete-after)

[gene heskett]

On 1/28/24 13:55, Andy Smith wrote:

Hi,

Thanks, this is very useful.

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 06:58:08PM +0100, hw wrote:

However, stay away from their cheap models as seen on this[1] picture
(Back UPS).  They work and you can replace the batteries yourself even
though you're not supposed to.  It's a minimum basic device.  It may
be on ok option if you're on a budget.  Their batteries last about 3
years.


So, I must admit, I am quite tempted by BX1600MI which would cost me
about £183. The equivalent spec in the Pro range is more than twice
this price.

Although the battery is not strictly user-replaceable, I watched
some videos on the task and it seems pretty easily doable.

Something for me to think on.

Thanks,
Andy


I'm a fan of APC, but the consumer versions. and I don't worry about 
batteries until they won't last the 6 or 7 seconds it takes to spin up 
the 20kw kohler in the back yard. My now deceased wife was on an oxy 
concentrator the last 15 years of her life, and a power failure of 20 
minutes might have finished her, so I bought a standby just a few months 
before the direcho that took power down for 3 days in June 2010. Very 
handy since.


I have an APC-1600 that been begging for a battery for a couple years, 
Still works fine for those few seconds.

Take care, stay well, Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

Thanks, this is very useful.

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 06:58:08PM +0100, hw wrote:
> However, stay away from their cheap models as seen on this[1] picture
> (Back UPS).  They work and you can replace the batteries yourself even
> though you're not supposed to.  It's a minimum basic device.  It may
> be on ok option if you're on a budget.  Their batteries last about 3
> years.

So, I must admit, I am quite tempted by BX1600MI which would cost me
about £183. The equivalent spec in the Pro range is more than twice
this price.

Although the battery is not strictly user-replaceable, I watched
some videos on the task and it seems pretty easily doable.

Something for me to think on.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-01-26 at 15:17 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:11:39PM +0100, hw wrote:
> > I've never had issues with any UPS due to self tests.  The batteries
> > need to be replaced when they are worn out.  How often that is
> > required depends on the UPS and the conditions it is working in,
> > usually every 3--5 years.
> 
> Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that
> has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of
> about 300W.

Generally I recommend APC because they work well (which is something
to be expected and shouldn't need to be pointed out), they can easily
be monitored with apcupsd and, very importantly, their batteries are
usually easily available so you can replace them without difficulty.

However, stay away from their cheap models as seen on this[1] picture
(Back UPS).  They work and you can replace the batteries yourself even
though you're not supposed to.  It's a minimum basic device.  It may
be on ok option if you're on a budget.  Their batteries last about 3
years.

I like the better models way better, like as on that[2] picture (Back
UPS pro).  I bought one a bit over 10 years ago (it even came with a
120k or so warranty for when a device protected by it would get
damaged) and replaced the batteries twice so far.  It's been working
without any issues ever since, and it'll probably work as long as new
batteries remain available.  So that's about 3 years battery life as
well.

Then it depends on a lot of things, primarily on the availability of
replacement batteries, then on how much you're willing to spend ---
since you can buy used ones because the only thing that goes bad is
the batteries, and you can find new old stock --- how much power you
need, if you want one that features a network card and if you want a
19" rack version or a standalone version.

Of course, their models change over time.  The 900VA smart UPS pro
delivers up to 540W, IIRC, and when it's overloaded it very annoyingly
beeps, but it continues to provide power.  I guess it shuts down when
it's overloaded and the main power fails, but I've never had that
happen yet.

For only 300W you go for this one:
https://www.apc.com/us/en/product/BR700G/apc-backups-pro-700va-420w-tower-120v-6x-nema-515r-outlets-avr-lcd-user-replaceable-battery/

Just keep in mind that you usually end up needing a UPS with higher
capacity than you planned for.  So it makes sense to check what the
batterie(s) cost and what the price difference between models with
lower and higher capacity is.  Some models take two or more batteries
while the version with lower capacity may take the same battery but
only one, making it overall so much cheaper that the model with more
capacity that requires two (or more) batteries may get too expensive.
But there may be a model with slightly more capacity that still takes
only one battery and you may be glad later that you spent a little
more money for more capacity.

Definitely stay away from UPSs from HP.  If you can reach someone from
HP at all, they will charge you before they would tell you what the
price of the batteries might be :(

Eaton probably makes good ones, too, but they're not common here, same
as another manufacturer the name of which I can't remember.  So I have
no experience with them.

Of course, you don't want to buy one from an unknown manufacturer with
no reputation, especially when it's a chinese one.  The batteries are
pretty generic, but for all you know, the manufacturer may have not
understood that pretty high currents can flow in an UPS and probably
has skimped on the wiring and/or other components to keep it cheap,
and it'll set your house on fire.  APC has understood that even in
their basic models (at least for the wiring; I can't tell for the
other components since I don't have enough knowledge about those).

After having said all the above, it's pretty simple because it comes
down to that, unless anything APC is difficult to come by where you
life, you can't go wrong with APC.


[1]: https://cdn-reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl_ws/E910/APC_BX1400U_01.png
[2]:
https://oaziscomputer.hu/images/products/6934_apc-back-ups-pro-900-br900g-gr_1527776643.jpg

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Roger Price]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2024, David Wright wrote:

On Fri 26 Jan 2024 at 19:03:33 (+0100), Roger Price wrote:

I currently have two Eaton Ellipse ECO 1600's. ... The four screws are deeply 
recessed and difficult to see.  They have different heads: some are Torx 10, 
others are a star.



20/20 hindsight might suggest that you were only intended
to remove the star, if by that you mean Philips/Pozidrive.


What I called "star" is probably a Quadrex.

Roger

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[debian-user]

ghe2001  wrote:

> Take a look at Tripp Lite:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripp_Lite
> 
> I used them for years to back up a small domain -- they make
> sine-wave electricity.

One of the references in the wikipedia article looked interesting:

https://www.computerworld.com/article/2472189/a-surge-protector-that-doesn-t-protect.html

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[David Wright]

On Fri 26 Jan 2024 at 19:03:33 (+0100), Roger Price wrote:

> I currently have two Eaton Ellipse ECO 1600's.  I change the batteries
> every 4-5 years, but this is not as easy as it should be.  It is not
> evident that only one of the four back panel screws needs to be
> removed.  I took me a while to learn this.  The four screws are deeply
> recessed and difficult to see.  They have different heads: some are
> Torx 10, others are a star.  Keep trying different screwdrivers until
> you feel something turning.

20/20 hindsight might suggest that you were only intended
to remove the star, if by that you mean Philips/Pozidrive.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Take a look at Tripp Lite:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripp_Lite

I used them for years to back up a small domain -- they make sine-wave 
electricity.

--
Glenn English

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Re: Home UPS recommendations

[Felix Miata]

Andy Smith composed on 2024-01-26 10:17 (UTC-0500):

> On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:11:39PM +0100, hw wrote:

>> I've never had issues with any UPS due to self tests.  The batteries
>> need to be replaced when they are worn out.  How often that is
>> required depends on the UPS and the conditions it is working in,
>> usually every 3--5 years.

> Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that
> has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of
> about 300W.

Ambient temps have a huge effect on UPS battery life. Temps here are purposely
above average, between 76F (winter) and 82F (summer), saving much electricity in
cooling season, which here in Florida is long, among other reasons. Before I
moved, I had 7 UPSes online at all times due to unconscionable frequency and
length of power outages from the monopoly power provider. Since moving I'm down 
to
4. It was uncommon for replacement batteries to last more than 30 months, and
common that they lasted less than 24 to as little as 18 or 20. OEM batteries
usually managed up to 60. Those with plastic instead of metal cases have the
advantage that swollen old batteries can usually be extracted successfully, 
while
metal could necessitate such heroics as drill and saw to extricate. My favorite
brands are Tripp-Lite and Eaton.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Roger Price]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2024, Andy Smith wrote:


Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that
has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of
about 300W.


I currently have two Eaton Ellipse ECO 1600's.  I change the batteries every 4-5 
years, but this is not as easy as it should be.  It is not evident that only one 
of the four back panel screws needs to be removed.  I took me a while to learn 
this.  The four screws are deeply recessed and difficult to see.  They have 
different heads: some are Torx 10, others are a star.  Keep trying different 
screwdrivers until you feel something turning.


The battery compartment is too tight. I took me 4 attempts to get the batteries 
back in, with the cables still connected and positioned such that the rear panel 
can be put back.


If you re-assemble and the UPS doesn't respond to pressing the ON/OFF button, 
then the battery leads have detached.  Start all over again.  Good luck!


It could have been a lot easier.  Roger

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[James H. H. Lampert]

I, too, have always used APC.

I've heard people swear by APC, and I've heard people swear *at* APC. 
I've had reason to do both, myself (and I won't elaborate on either).


--
James H. H. Lampert

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[Tixy]

On Fri, 2024-01-26 at 15:37 +, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 26 Jan 2024 15:17 +, from a...@strugglers.net (Andy Smith):
> > Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that
> > has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of
> > about 300W.
> 
> I would suggest to look at the free-standing floor-/tower-model APC
> _Back-UPS Pro_ series.

I have had a couple of those, never had any problems with them. Though
replacement batteries cost more than half the price of a new UPS so I
ended up just buying a a second UPS when the original batteries got
rather feeble. (After 7 years).

I've now stopped using it though because of the cost of the electricity
it uses. It uses 18W when just sitting there ready for action, which 
worked out at 40GBP a year!

-- 
Tixy

Re: Home UPS recommendations

[Michael Kjörling]

On 26 Jan 2024 15:17 +, from a...@strugglers.net (Andy Smith):
> Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that
> has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of
> about 300W.

I would suggest to look at the free-standing floor-/tower-model APC
_Back-UPS Pro_ series.

They come in a variety of sizes, the battery is easily replacable (not
sure if you can do it online, though; I've never had reason to look
that up or try it) and they aren't horribly expensive to purchase
(though in fairness not the cheapest).

I have several and they have been very reliable. Battery replacement
is basically flip it onto its side, remove a lid, slide the old
battery out, put the new battery in, put the lid back, and done.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[fxkl47BF]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2024, Andy Smith wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:11:39PM +0100, hw wrote:
>> I've never had issues with any UPS due to self tests.  The batteries
>> need to be replaced when they are worn out.  How often that is
>> required depends on the UPS and the conditions it is working in,
>> usually every 3--5 years.
>
> Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that
> has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of
> about 300W.


just my experience
i have 2 apc 740's that date from the mid 90's
when the internal battery gave out i added a 50 amp anderson connector
i connect to a 35ah sla
you can change battteries while it's running

Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after)

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:11:39PM +0100, hw wrote:
> I've never had issues with any UPS due to self tests.  The batteries
> need to be replaced when they are worn out.  How often that is
> required depends on the UPS and the conditions it is working in,
> usually every 3--5 years.

Out of interest what brand of UPS do you recommend for home use that
has easily-replaceable batteries every 3–5 years? For a load of
about 300W.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: NUT and Eaton UPS produce a lot of error messages

[Dan Ritter]

Stefan Schumacher wrote: 
> Hello
> 
> I recently bought a small UPS by Eaton in order to prevent my
> btrfs-fileserver (running Debian 12 Bookworm, which is also the source
> of my nut-installation) from shutting down abruptly while writing
> something important during a power loss. I have found very good
> documentation on how to set up the UPS and the services on the server
> connected to it. Unfortunately it's in German
> (https://techbotch.org/blog/ups-setup/index.html) which is not a
> problem for me but possibly for others trying to understand my set-up.

 
> The problem is the dozens of errors the systemctl status messages
> show. I bought the UPS to increase reliability and now I don't know if
> the service is working in case of an emergency. How can I fix this ?
> Should I try to contact the Package Maintainer? Are there alternatives
> I could use or is nut the gold standard?
> 
> ● nut-server.service - Network UPS Tools - power devices information server
> Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/nut-server.service; enabled;
> preset: enabled)
> Active: active (running) since Fri 2024-01-19 05:17:03 CET; 5s ago
> Main PID: 1303 (upsd)
> Tasks: 1 (limit: 38253)
> Memory: 640.0K
> CPU: 3ms
> CGroup: /system.slice/nut-server.service
> └─1303 /lib/nut/upsd -F
> Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: fopen /run/nut/upsd.pid:
> No such file or directory
> Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: Could not find PID file
> '/run/nut/upsd.pid' to see if previous upsd instance is already
> running!
> Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: listening on 127.0.0.1 port 3493
> Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: listening on ::1 port 3493
> Jan 19 05:17:03 servername upsd[1303]: listening on 127.0.0.1 port 3493
> Jan 19 05:17:03 servername upsd[1303]: listening on ::1 port 3493
> Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: Connected to UPS [Eaton]:
> usbhid-ups-Eaton
> Jan 19 05:17:03 servername upsd[1303]: Connected to UPS [Eaton]:
> usbhid-ups-Eaton
> Jan 19 05:17:03 servername upsd[1303]: Running as foreground process,
> not saving a PID file
> Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: Running as foreground
> process, not saving a PID file


So far, we aren't seeing any errors at all. This is just startup
logging.


> ● nut-monitor.service - Network UPS Tools - power device monitor and
> shutdown controller
> Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/nut-monitor.service; enabled;
> preset: enabled)
> Active: active (running) since Fri 2024-01-19 03:37:28 CET; 1h 41min ago
> Main PID: 847 (upsmon)
> Tasks: 2 (limit: 38253)
> Memory: 3.4M
> CPU: 338ms
> CGroup: /system.slice/nut-monitor.service
> ├─847 /lib/nut/upsmon -F
> └─849 /lib/nut/upsmon -F
> Jan 19 03:43:08 servername nut-monitor[849]: UPS Eaton@localhost on battery
> Jan 19 03:43:09 servername nut-monitor[916]: Network UPS Tools upsmon 2.8.0
> Jan 19 03:43:33 servername nut-monitor[849]: UPS Eaton@localhost on line power
> Jan 19 03:43:34 servername nut-monitor[920]: Network UPS Tools upsmon 2.8.0

The UPS decided to activate, then decided to go back to the
line. This might be a power fluctuation -- quite possibly an
undervoltage so brief that nothing else in the house noticed.


> Jan 19 05:17:04 servername nut-monitor[849]: Poll UPS
> [Eaton@localhost] failed - Write error: Broken pipe
> Jan 19 05:17:04 servername nut-monitor[849]: Communications with UPS
> Eaton@localhost lost
> Jan 19 05:17:04 servername nut-monitor[1305]: Network UPS Tools upsmon 2.8.0
> Jan 19 05:17:09 servername nut-monitor[849]: Login on UPS
> [Eaton@localhost] failed - got [ERR ACCESS-DENIED]
> Jan 19 05:17:14 servername nut-monitor[849]: Communications with UPS
> Eaton@localhost established
> Jan 19 05:17:14 servername nut-monitor[1312]: Network UPS Tools upsmon 2.8.0

That, however, is lost-and-regained communication with the UPS. It might be
a bad USB cable, a reset of the UPS's controller, a USB
controller issue... 

Does it happen repeatedly?

Does it ever not re-connect?

-dsr-

NUT and Eaton UPS produce a lot of error messages

[Stefan Schumacher]

Hello

I recently bought a small UPS by Eaton in order to prevent my
btrfs-fileserver (running Debian 12 Bookworm, which is also the source
of my nut-installation) from shutting down abruptly while writing
something important during a power loss. I have found very good
documentation on how to set up the UPS and the services on the server
connected to it. Unfortunately it's in German
(https://techbotch.org/blog/ups-setup/index.html) which is not a
problem for me but possibly for others trying to understand my set-up.

I will now describe the steps I took and the configuration options I
set and then post the errors of nut-monitor and nut server. I hope
someone can help fix the underlying problem behind these error
messages.

lsusb shows the UPS:
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0463: MGE UPS Systems UPS

So I made this changes to ups.conf
[Eaton]
driver = usbhid-ups
port = auto
vendorid = 0463
pollfreq = 30

In nut.conf I set mode=standalone.

And finally I added these lines to upsd.users:
[upsmon]
password = 
actions = SET
instcmds = ALL

I did a live test, plugged the cord and waited until the server shut
down at 20%. Worked fine.
Upsc also works - I can query my UPS for specific parameters or show them all.

The problem is the dozens of errors the systemctl status messages
show. I bought the UPS to increase reliability and now I don't know if
the service is working in case of an emergency. How can I fix this ?
Should I try to contact the Package Maintainer? Are there alternatives
I could use or is nut the gold standard?

● nut-server.service - Network UPS Tools - power devices information server
Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/nut-server.service; enabled;
preset: enabled)
Active: active (running) since Fri 2024-01-19 05:17:03 CET; 5s ago
Main PID: 1303 (upsd)
Tasks: 1 (limit: 38253)
Memory: 640.0K
CPU: 3ms
CGroup: /system.slice/nut-server.service
└─1303 /lib/nut/upsd -F
Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: fopen /run/nut/upsd.pid:
No such file or directory
Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: Could not find PID file
'/run/nut/upsd.pid' to see if previous upsd instance is already
running!
Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: listening on 127.0.0.1 port 3493
Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: listening on ::1 port 3493
Jan 19 05:17:03 servername upsd[1303]: listening on 127.0.0.1 port 3493
Jan 19 05:17:03 servername upsd[1303]: listening on ::1 port 3493
Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: Connected to UPS [Eaton]:
usbhid-ups-Eaton
Jan 19 05:17:03 servername upsd[1303]: Connected to UPS [Eaton]:
usbhid-ups-Eaton
Jan 19 05:17:03 servername upsd[1303]: Running as foreground process,
not saving a PID file
Jan 19 05:17:03 servername nut-server[1303]: Running as foreground
process, not saving a PID file

● nut-monitor.service - Network UPS Tools - power device monitor and
shutdown controller
Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/nut-monitor.service; enabled;
preset: enabled)
Active: active (running) since Fri 2024-01-19 03:37:28 CET; 1h 41min ago
Main PID: 847 (upsmon)
Tasks: 2 (limit: 38253)
Memory: 3.4M
CPU: 338ms
CGroup: /system.slice/nut-monitor.service
├─847 /lib/nut/upsmon -F
└─849 /lib/nut/upsmon -F
Jan 19 03:43:08 servername nut-monitor[849]: UPS Eaton@localhost on battery
Jan 19 03:43:09 servername nut-monitor[916]: Network UPS Tools upsmon 2.8.0
Jan 19 03:43:33 servername nut-monitor[849]: UPS Eaton@localhost on line power
Jan 19 03:43:34 servername nut-monitor[920]: Network UPS Tools upsmon 2.8.0
Jan 19 05:17:04 servername nut-monitor[849]: Poll UPS
[Eaton@localhost] failed - Write error: Broken pipe
Jan 19 05:17:04 servername nut-monitor[849]: Communications with UPS
Eaton@localhost lost
Jan 19 05:17:04 servername nut-monitor[1305]: Network UPS Tools upsmon 2.8.0
Jan 19 05:17:09 servername nut-monitor[849]: Login on UPS
[Eaton@localhost] failed - got [ERR ACCESS-DENIED]
Jan 19 05:17:14 servername nut-monitor[849]: Communications with UPS
Eaton@localhost established
Jan 19 05:17:14 servername nut-monitor[1312]: Network UPS Tools upsmon 2.8.0


Yours sincerely
Stefan Malte Schumacher

Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

[gene heskett]

On 8/1/23 18:46, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 1:09 PM gene heskett <mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net>> wrote:


On 8/1/23 11:03, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
 > On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 2:40 AM Michael Kjörling
<2695bd53d...@ewoof.net <mailto:2695bd53d...@ewoof.net>
 > <mailto:2695bd53d...@ewoof.net <mailto:2695bd53d...@ewoof.net>>>
wrote:
 >
 >     On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songb...@anthive.com
<mailto:songb...@anthive.com>
 >     <mailto:songb...@anthive.com <mailto:songb...@anthive.com>>
(songbird):
 >      >   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
 >      > but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
 >      > down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down
 >      > the computer system and unplug the power cord and the
 >      > network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm
 >      > coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really
 >      > want things to get fried.
 >
I replaced the original 60 amp service in 2008 with a 200, and brought
    this grandfathered 2970 house service up to code, doing all the
internal
work myself. I have a big ups running everything but the lights and
printers in this room, got rid of the copper telephone because the
cable
was 70 years old, 50 pair paper insulated cable they would not keep
working for a week at a time, so after 5 months of that I voted with my
wallet and hooked all that up to the cable system. I must have done
something right, I have not even blown a ccfl light bulb since and it
all runs 24/7/365.25.


In your case then, you may need to pay attention to transients in your 
cabling plant. Everytime a large motor starts, revs or stops, those 
transients are hitting your cabling. My recollection is that you have 
machine tools in addition to electronics and climate control. Even more 
so then. Also grounding for your electrical system has to be proven 
over-adequate. And any possible ground-loops need to be found and 
remediated.


This is true also, but I am a C.E.T. and learned decades ago that 
electrical grounds ack the NEC are specced from their experience based 
on what works, and to wire logical circuits with a single bolt star 
ground. I do appreciate the concern, Nic.  Call it evangelizing, 
whatever, but it does need an occasional sermon to the non-electrical 
types out there. I've long ago quit counting the number of electrical 
problems I have corrected, created by folks carrying Journeymen cards in 
their billfold. And STILL can't tell the diff between the Neutral and 
the static ground. I've long since given up trying to teach them about 
multiphase power. Most know enough to interchange any two wires feeding 
a 3 phase motor if it runs backwards. The "Why"+ it runs backwards is 
above their pay grade.


 > It's worth mentioning that with a good UPS you get
power-conditioning,
 > not just filtering and over/under-voltage protection. That can
extend
 > the lifetime of any electric motor or other device using the
conditioned
 > power. The UPS emits a controlled waveform beyond what your
utility can
 > provide.
 >
 > And numerous datacenters have begun using DC-powered racks. Less
power
 > loss in the individual transformers and motors in each racked
server,
 > less heat to be expelled.



Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

Re: OT: Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[john doe]

On 7/31/23 20:47, Tom Browder wrote:

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 13:28 john doe  wrote:


On 7/31/23 19:23, Tom Browder wrote:


...


Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?




I have two APC and I'm pretty happy with those.


Would you mind saying the model numbers? Do they have replaceable batteries?



Back-UPS XS 950U, no!

--
John Doe

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Karl Vogel]

>> On Tue, 01 Aug 2023 03:47:28 -0400,
>> David  may have said:

> What everybody seems to be doing is catering to surge, when a low
> spike can do just as much damage.  Both need to be protected against,
> so any protective appliance selection has to consider that.

  Liebert protects against power surges, brownouts, blackouts or drops
  in voltage.  That's why they're a little more expensive.

--
Karl Vogel / vogelke AT pobox DOT com / I don't speak for anyone at the moment

Skills-wise they suck harder than a black hole with daddy issues.
--Review of Accenture Senior Management

Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 1:09 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> On 8/1/23 11:03, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 2:40 AM Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d...@ewoof.net
> > <mailto:2695bd53d...@ewoof.net>> wrote:
> >
> > On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songb...@anthive.com
> > <mailto:songb...@anthive.com> (songbird):
> >  >   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
> >  > but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
> >  > down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down
> >  > the computer system and unplug the power cord and the
> >  > network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm
> >  > coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really
> >  > want things to get fried.
> >
> I replaced the original 60 amp service in 2008 with a 200, and brought
> this grandfathered 2970 house service up to code, doing all the internal
> work myself. I have a big ups running everything but the lights and
> printers in this room, got rid of the copper telephone because the cable
> was 70 years old, 50 pair paper insulated cable they would not keep
> working for a week at a time, so after 5 months of that I voted with my
> wallet and hooked all that up to the cable system. I must have done
> something right, I have not even blown a ccfl light bulb since and it
> all runs 24/7/365.25.


In your case then, you may need to pay attention to transients in your
cabling plant. Everytime a large motor starts, revs or stops, those
transients are hitting your cabling. My recollection is that you have
machine tools in addition to electronics and climate control. Even more so
then. Also grounding for your electrical system has to be proven
over-adequate. And any possible ground-loops need to be found and
remediated.


> It's worth mentioning that with a good UPS you get power-conditioning,
> > not just filtering and over/under-voltage protection. That can extend
> > the lifetime of any electric motor or other device using the conditioned
> > power. The UPS emits a controlled waveform beyond what your utility can
> > provide.
> >
> > And numerous datacenters have begun using DC-powered racks. Less power
> > loss in the individual transformers and motors in each racked server,
> > less heat to be expelled.
>
>

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Tom Browder]

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 15:19 Roy J. Tellason, Sr.  wrote:

> On Monday 31 July 2023 07:47:14 pm Charles Curley wrote:
> > Replacement batteries from APC are expensive compared to buying
> > elsewhere, but they come with return shipping for the exhausted battery
> > so they can recycle it.


Roy, and many others, thank you for a voluminious set of helpful and timely
responses. I need to assemble a spreadsheet to evaluate it all.

I'm sure I have enough to make an informed decision.

Blessiing to all my Debian friends!

-Tom

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Roy J. Tellason, Sr.]

On Monday 31 July 2023 07:47:14 pm Charles Curley wrote:
> Replacement batteries from APC are expensive compared to buying
> elsewhere, but they come with return shipping for the exhausted battery
> so they can recycle it.
 
OTOH local recycling places give me cash for exhausted lead-acid batteries...


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

[gene heskett]

On 8/1/23 11:03, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 2:40 AM Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d...@ewoof.net 
<mailto:2695bd53d...@ewoof.net>> wrote:


On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songb...@anthive.com
<mailto:songb...@anthive.com> (songbird):
 >   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
 > but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
 > down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down
 > the computer system and unplug the power cord and the
 > network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm
 > coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really
 > want things to get fried.

I replaced the original 60 amp service in 2008 with a 200, and brought 
this grandfathered 2970 house service up to code, doing all the internal 
work myself. I have a big ups running everything but the lights and 
printers in this room, got rid of the copper telephone because the cable 
was 70 years old, 50 pair paper insulated cable they would not keep 
working for a week at a time, so after 5 months of that I voted with my 
wallet and hooked all that up to the cable system. I must have done 
something right, I have not even blown a ccfl light bulb since and it 
all runs 24/7/365.25.



You can have incoming-mains overvoltage protection installed to
provide a base level of protection for everything electrical against a
mains overvoltage (but generally not other types of power
fluctuations). It's not even all that expensive, or at least wasn't
some years ago. Consider asking your electrician what options would be
available in your particular situation and for a cost estimate or
quote.

Especially if you are in an area that frequently gets lightning, it
_might_ help the UPS last longer, too, since its protective circuitry
then doesn't need to take the brunt of the voltage spike after that is
already well inside your home with all the associated risks.


It's worth mentioning that with a good UPS you get power-conditioning, 
not just filtering and over/under-voltage protection. That can extend 
the lifetime of any electric motor or other device using the conditioned 
power. The UPS emits a controlled waveform beyond what your utility can 
provide.


And numerous datacenters have begun using DC-powered racks. Less power 
loss in the individual transformers and motors in each racked server, 
less heat to be expelled.



Michael Kjörling                      https://michael.kjorling.se
<https://michael.kjorling.se>
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”



Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 2:40 AM Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d...@ewoof.net>
wrote:

> On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songb...@anthive.com (songbird):
> >   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
> > but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
> > down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down
> > the computer system and unplug the power cord and the
> > network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm
> > coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really
> > want things to get fried.
>
> You can have incoming-mains overvoltage protection installed to
> provide a base level of protection for everything electrical against a
> mains overvoltage (but generally not other types of power
> fluctuations). It's not even all that expensive, or at least wasn't
> some years ago. Consider asking your electrician what options would be
> available in your particular situation and for a cost estimate or
> quote.
>
> Especially if you are in an area that frequently gets lightning, it
> _might_ help the UPS last longer, too, since its protective circuitry
> then doesn't need to take the brunt of the voltage spike after that is
> already well inside your home with all the associated risks.
>

It's worth mentioning that with a good UPS you get power-conditioning, not
just filtering and over/under-voltage protection. That can extend the
lifetime of any electric motor or other device using the conditioned power.
The UPS emits a controlled waveform beyond what your utility can provide.

And numerous datacenters have begun using DC-powered racks. Less power loss
in the individual transformers and motors in each racked server, less heat
to be expelled.


Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
> “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”
>
>

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Roger Price]

On Tue, 1 Aug 2023, Karl Vogel wrote:

  I give a solid vote to Liebert.  I had a near-miss lightning strike
  a few nights ago, and all it did was make my display go out for about
  a second.  It came right back, session intact, didn't lose a thing.


My place took a direct hit from a lightning strike.  Frightening.  Despite two 
differential circuit breakers in front of the UPS, it melted the circuit board 
in an Eaton Ellipse 1600.  The server crashed but no data was lost.  Eaton 
replaced the UPS.


Roger

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[David]

On Tue, 2023-08-01 at 03:14 -0400, Karl Vogel wrote:
> Liebert

What everybody seems to be doing is catering to surge, when a low spike
can do just as much damage. Both need to be protected against, so any
protective appliance selection has to consider that.
Cheers!

-- 
A Kiwi in Australia,
doing my bit toward raising the national standard.

Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songb...@anthive.com (songbird):
>   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
> but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
> down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down 
> the computer system and unplug the power cord and the 
> network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm 
> coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really 
> want things to get fried.

You can have incoming-mains overvoltage protection installed to
provide a base level of protection for everything electrical against a
mains overvoltage (but generally not other types of power
fluctuations). It's not even all that expensive, or at least wasn't
some years ago. Consider asking your electrician what options would be
available in your particular situation and for a cost estimate or
quote.

Especially if you are in an area that frequently gets lightning, it
_might_ help the UPS last longer, too, since its protective circuitry
then doesn't need to take the brunt of the voltage spike after that is
already well inside your home with all the associated risks.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Karl Vogel]

>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:24:36 -0400,
>> Tom Browder  may have said:

> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs
> for APC and Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate
> on the one- and two-star reviews).

> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?
> Thanks.

  I give a solid vote to Liebert.  I had a near-miss lightning strike
  a few nights ago, and all it did was make my display go out for about
  a second.  It came right back, session intact, didn't lose a thing.

--
Karl Vogel / vogelke AT pobox DOT com / I don't speak for anyone at the moment

Why Trick or Treating is Better than Sex #9:
  If you get tired, you can wait 10 minutes and go at it again.

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Charles Curley]

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 12:23:46 -0500
Tom Browder  wrote:

> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the
> battery. I haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for
> awhile, but electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new
> location and I need one.
> 
> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC
> and Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one-
> and two-star reviews).
> 
> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

I have two APC Back-UPS RS 700Gs. I believe they use gel cell
replaceable batteries. Both respond to apcupsd, and I believe APC has
clients for other operating systems. I've had excellent results with
APC for almost three decades.

Replacement batteries from APC are expensive compared to buying
elsewhere, but they come with return shipping for the exhausted battery
so they can recycle it.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[songbird]

Tom Browder wrote:
> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I
> haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but
> electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.
>
> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and
> Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and
> two-star reviews).
>
> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

  i've gotten my money's worth out of two APC's.  the first one
i bought for about $70 back in 1998 or so and it lasted about
20 years without a battery change or any other issues.  i did
have to replace it and bought an APC Pro 1000 S as it was on
sale and fit my needs and so far it has worked as advertised
for a few years.

  one requirement for me is that i do not want something 
beeping at me.

  i really like is the built in watt meter which lets me 
find out how much juice various things use that i have 
around here.

  i do not run things for long when the power goes out
but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down 
the computer system and unplug the power cord and the 
network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm 
coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really 
want things to get fried.


  songbird

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Bret Busby]

On 1/8/23 02:53, Bret Busby wrote:

On 1/8/23 02:41, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 2:13 PM Tom Browder  
wrote:


I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the 
battery. I haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for 
awhile, but electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new 
location and I need one.


All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC 
and Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- 
and two-star reviews).


Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?


I put them on all my electronic devices. We use about 13 of them
throughout the house. There is one at the ONT, one at the router, one
at each tv/cable box, and one for each computer in the house. In my
test lab in the basement, I keep a few computers grouped together and
plugged into one UPS. I have 4 groups, so I need four UPSes.

Our use case is an occasional power outage of several minutes,
brown-outs and dirty power. If power looks like it is going to be out
longer, I turn on our backup generator. It produces _really_ dirty
power. Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) is between 15% and 20%.

We use the 425 VAC units [1] and 600 VAC units [2], depending on the 
load.


[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HDC236Q
[2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FWAZEIU




With all of that, including 13 UPS's, I wonder whether it would not be 
more feasible to buy a household BESS with a capacity of 10kWh, and a 
dedicated inverter, to provide a single UPS.


Having replaced/upgraded our household rooftop photovoltaic system last 
year, I got a 19kW 


That should have been 19kWh; the hybrid inverter can draw 5kW continuous 
power from the BESS.


BESS connected to a hybrid inverter that provides UPS 
(switchover time less than 10ms), with it configured to retain 25% 
(about 4kWh) for reserve power. With that, we have gone through multiple 
grid power outages, of several hours long, each, with no loss of 
electricity supply to the house. The whole of the household, is on the 
protected circuit (apart from a bore pump, and a solar HWS booster 
element, which has not been turned on for a few years).


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..



--
..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Bret Busby]

On 1/8/23 02:41, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 2:13 PM Tom Browder  wrote:


I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I 
haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but 
electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.

All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and Tripp 
Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and two-star 
reviews).

Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?


I put them on all my electronic devices. We use about 13 of them
throughout the house. There is one at the ONT, one at the router, one
at each tv/cable box, and one for each computer in the house. In my
test lab in the basement, I keep a few computers grouped together and
plugged into one UPS. I have 4 groups, so I need four UPSes.

Our use case is an occasional power outage of several minutes,
brown-outs and dirty power. If power looks like it is going to be out
longer, I turn on our backup generator. It produces _really_ dirty
power. Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) is between 15% and 20%.

We use the 425 VAC units [1] and 600 VAC units [2], depending on the load.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HDC236Q
[2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FWAZEIU




With all of that, including 13 UPS's, I wonder whether it would not be 
more feasible to buy a household BESS with a capacity of 10kWh, and a 
dedicated inverter, to provide a single UPS.


Having replaced/upgraded our household rooftop photovoltaic system last 
year, I got a 19kW BESS connected to a hybrid inverter that provides UPS 
(switchover time less than 10ms), with it configured to retain 25% 
(about 4kWh) for reserve power. With that, we have gone through multiple 
grid power outages, of several hours long, each, with no loss of 
electricity supply to the house. The whole of the household, is on the 
protected circuit (apart from a bore pump, and a solar HWS booster 
element, which has not been turned on for a few years).


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: OT: Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Tom Browder]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 13:28 john doe  wrote:

> On 7/31/23 19:23, Tom Browder wrote:

...

> > Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?
>

I have two APC and I'm pretty happy with those.


Would you mind saying the model numbers? Do they have replaceable batteries?

>
What type of recommendation are you looking for/ what are your requirements?


I want to provide reasonable battery support for my two running PCs (one
Debian, one Windows) for the power fluctuations we are seein lately in Gulf
Breeze, Florida.

I'll also assume that you are posting in here as you want something that
> is Debian compatible! ;^)


Yes, that would be nice, but I trust most folks' opinions here because they
are both reasonably computer proficient and most are very friendly.

-Tom

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 2:13 PM Tom Browder  wrote:
>
> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I 
> haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but 
> electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.
>
> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and 
> Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and two-star 
> reviews).
>
> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

I put them on all my electronic devices. We use about 13 of them
throughout the house. There is one at the ONT, one at the router, one
at each tv/cable box, and one for each computer in the house. In my
test lab in the basement, I keep a few computers grouped together and
plugged into one UPS. I have 4 groups, so I need four UPSes.

Our use case is an occasional power outage of several minutes,
brown-outs and dirty power. If power looks like it is going to be out
longer, I turn on our backup generator. It produces _really_ dirty
power. Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) is between 15% and 20%.

We use the 425 VAC units [1] and 600 VAC units [2], depending on the load.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HDC236Q
[2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FWAZEIU

Re: OT: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 31 Jul 2023 17:35 +, from russ...@rlharris.org (Russell L. Harris):
>> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery.
> 
> Experience with APC:  every one died emitting smoke

That's not my experience with them (and I have three in current use,
one of which is about to hit the 10 year mark with IIRC nothing but
one battery replacement, plus one that's been retired for other
reasons).

For moderate needs, I suggest to take a look at the APC Back-UPS Pro
series. Works fine with apcupsd for all I can tell. A downside is the
proprietary RJ-45 to USB cable.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Bret Busby]

On 1/8/23 01:23, Tom Browder wrote:
I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the 
battery. I haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for 
awhile, but electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location 
and I need one.


All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC 
and Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and 
two-star reviews).


Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

Thanks.

-Tom


You do not state your location, your requirements, or, your budget.

Each of these is important, and, can influence the solution.

"
"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
  Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
  "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
  A Trilogy In Four Parts",
  written by Douglas Adams,
  published by Pan Books, 1992
"

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Roger Price]

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023, Tom Browder wrote:


I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery.
Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?


I use Eaton Ellipse ECO 1600's.  I have replaced the batteries.  The 1600 is 
big, but I live in an area with a lot of lightning, long overhead lines and 
repeated shutdowns.  I use NUT and I always shutdown after 2 minutes, whatever 
the battery charge.  For me it's the number of shutdowns that is important, not 
the total battery supported uptime.


The latest Eaton 1600 no longer seems to support automatic power on after wall 
power resumes.  Check on this if it is important to you. 
https://networkupstools.org/


Roger

Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Take a look at:

https://tripplite.eaton.com/products/ups-battery-backup-on-line-single-phase~11-56

I ran a domain for years on older Tripp Lite UPSs like these.  They take wall 
electricity, rectify it and charge the batteries (lead-acid in mine) and 
convert back to gorgeous, surge-free, stable voltage AC.  No switchover when 
the wall electricity fails -- the computer never knows.  A proper UPS, IMHO...

--
Glenn English

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Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Russell L. Harris]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 12:23:46PM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:

I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I
haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but
electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.

All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and Tripp
Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and two-star
reviews).

Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

Thanks.

-Tom


Experience with APC:  every one died emitting smoke

Experience with Tripp Lite:  five have been in daily use for years;
finally had to replace the batteries

Experience with Eaton/Powersonic (new owner of Tripp Lite): had to
scrap an expensive sinusoidal output unit because a proprietary
component failed and PowerSonic discontinued support.

RLH
--
He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry
ground; a fruitful land into barrenness, for the wickedness of them
that dwell therein. - Psalm 107:33-34

OT: Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

[john doe]

On 7/31/23 19:23, Tom Browder wrote:

I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I
haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but
electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.

All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and
Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and
two-star reviews).

Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?




I have two APC and I'm pretty happy with those.

What type of recommendation are you looking for/ what are your requirements?

I'll also assume that you are posting in here as you want something that
is Debian compatible! ;^)

--
John Doe

Recommendations for a UPS?

[Tom Browder]

I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I
haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but
electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.

All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and
Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and
two-star reviews).

Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

Thanks.

-Tom

Re: IANA port ups/401

[Roger Price]

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021, Dan Ritter wrote:


Roger Price wrote:

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:


On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 04:51:55PM +0200, Roger Price wrote:

Has any reader of this list ever used IANA port ups/401
"Uninterruptible Power Supply" (other than the One Windows Trojan)?
I'm looking for protocol documentation or reports of usage. The port
was assigned in 2008 to Mr. Charles Bennett as both assignee and
contact. Mr. Bennett himself died in 2015.


Sysadmin-type since 1996ish, so: in the last 25 years, I believe
the only time I have encountered "ups/401" is in /etc/services.

SunOS
Solaris
DEC OSF/1
Harris Nighthawk something-or-another B3 (awful even for the
time)
VMS on a microVAX the size of a largish microwave oven
NetBSD and OpenBSD but somehow never FreeBSD
Linux in many distros


This is exactly what I have suspected.  ups/401 is widely known since it 
features in /etc/services, but it has no users.


In an I-D [1], I explain that I would like to use port name "ups" for UPS 
management over TLS 1.3 which is not available in the current NUT (Network UPS 
Tools) package 2.7.4.  Such a "take-over" is not evident, since for example 
direct transfers of IANA names and numbers are not allowed.  One of the hurdles 
to be overcome is demonstrating that "ups" is not being used.


Roger

[1]
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-rprice-ups-management-protocol-03.html#name-nut-project-requirement

Re: IANA port ups/401

[Dan Ritter]

Roger Price wrote: 
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2021, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 04:51:55PM +0200, Roger Price wrote:
> > > Has any reader of this list ever used IANA port ups/401
> > > "Uninterruptible Power Supply" (other than the One Windows Trojan)?
> > > I'm looking for protocol documentation or reports of usage. The port
> > > was assigned in 2008 to Mr. Charles Bennett as both assignee and
> > > contact. Mr. Bennett himself died in 2015.

Sysadmin-type since 1996ish, so: in the last 25 years, I believe
the only time I have encountered "ups/401" is in /etc/services.

SunOS
Solaris
DEC OSF/1
Harris Nighthawk something-or-another B3 (awful even for the
time) 
VMS on a microVAX the size of a largish microwave oven
NetBSD and OpenBSD but somehow never FreeBSD
Linux in many distros


-dsr-

Re: IANA port ups/401

[Roger Price]

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:


On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 04:51:55PM +0200, Roger Price wrote:

Has any reader of this list ever used IANA port ups/401
"Uninterruptible Power Supply" (other than the One Windows Trojan)?
I'm looking for protocol documentation or reports of usage. The port
was assigned in 2008 to Mr. Charles Bennett as both assignee and
contact. Mr. Bennett himself died in 2015.


Funny. Search engine finds someone with your name:

 https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=%22401%22+%22UPS%22+site:tools.ietf.org

giving:

 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rprice-ups-management-protocol-00

I have the strong hunch you /know/ this person :-)


I do not confirm and I do not deny that I know that guy :-) In the discussions 
associated with the I-D, I expect IANA to ask to be shown that there are no 
current users for ups/401.  It seemed useful to tap the accumulated wisdom and 
deep memories of the debian list.


Cheers, Roger

Re: IANA port ups/401

[tomas]

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 04:51:55PM +0200, Roger Price wrote:
> Has any reader of this list ever used IANA port ups/401
> "Uninterruptible Power Supply" (other than the One Windows Trojan)?
> I'm looking for protocol documentation or reports of usage. The port
> was assigned in 2008 to Mr. Charles Bennett as both assignee and
> contact. Mr. Bennett himself died in 2015.

Funny. Search engine finds someone with your name:

  https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=%22401%22+%22UPS%22+site:tools.ietf.org

giving:

  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rprice-ups-management-protocol-00

I have the strong hunch you /know/ this person :-)

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

IANA port ups/401

[Roger Price]

Has any reader of this list ever used IANA port ups/401 "Uninterruptible Power 
Supply" (other than the One Windows Trojan)?  I'm looking for protocol 
documentation or reports of usage. The port was assigned in 2008 to Mr. Charles 
Bennett as both assignee and contact. Mr. Bennett himself died in 2015.


Roger

PS: The NUT package uses port nut/3493 for UPS management.

UPS, was RTL problem

[Roger Price]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021, Maureen L Thomas wrote:


I am on an ups box so I don't understand how this happened.


Hello Maureen, The UPS will protect your stuff from external power supply 
problems, but not from internal deterioration.


Have you checked that your UPS is doing it's job correctly?  If you pull the 
power cord from the wall does the system shutdown cleanly?  How old are your 
batteries?  They need replacing every 4 years.  We have had people in the 
nut-upsuser list telling us that the shutdown software wasn't working, when 
the battery was 12 years old.


Roger

Re: Resolved (and extended): Re: OT: Belkin F1DS104J KVM and PCs on a UPS

[rhkramer]

Oops, fixing a typo, below

On Sunday, February 02, 2020 04:18:39 PM rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks to all who replied!
> 
> Everybody had good points.  I ended up putting the unit on the non-battery
> side of the UPS (just because I was out of outlets on the battery side and
> didn't want to take the time / space to add a powerstrip or such (space is
> tight behind / under my desk)).  I usually feel that the surge suppression
> there is better than on some inexpensive powerstrips.
> 
> In the course of plugging in a power supply for a laptop (which was the
> reason to switch from a 2-port KVM to a 4-port KVM), I accidentally
> tripped the power to the KVM switch with no ill effects, that is, the
> computer did not lose its communication to the monitor, keyboard, and
> mouse, and, after I repowered the KVM, I could switch between the
> computers as before the power loss, so I'm not worried about not being on
> the UPS.
> 
> I did learn some things (one mentioned above), another is:
> 
>* the KVM has inputs for either a PS/2 keyboard and mouse, or a USB
> keyboard and mouse.  My mouse is USB and my keyboard is PS/2.  I found that
> if I plugged the keyboard into the PS/2 port and the mouse into a USB
> port, that would not work for the most finicky computer.  I added a USB to
> PS/2 converter plug to the mouse, plugged them both into USB ports on the
> KVM, and now things worked.

Should have been "plugged them both into the PS/2 ports"

> 
>* the output from the KVM (to the computer) has one USB cable and one
> PS/2 cable.  After I did the above, I was able to plug the PS/2 cable into
> the keyboard port on the computer, and the USB cable into a USB plug, and
> the mouse and keyboard both worked.  (I thought I might have to add
> another USB to PS/2 converter plug so that I could plug both cables into
> the PS/2 ports on the computer.
> 
>* The other (desktop) computer I consider less finicky.  (Because, when
> I tried to set it up with the inexpensive 4-port all USB KVM that I bought
> on ebay, it worked with no trouble, the finicky computer would not, even
> when I used things like a cable splitter and USB to PS/2 converter plugs)
> to plug into either both PS/2 "jacks" or two USB ports on the computer (or
> the various possible combinations of one each))
> 
>Anyway, this less finicky computer has only one PS/2 ports, colored half
> pink and half gray, and apparently can work for either a PS/2 mouse or a
> PS/2 keyboard (or maybe even both with some kind of "combiner cable").
> 
>I ended up plugging the PS/2 cable from the KVM into the PS/2 port on
> the computer and the USB cable into a USB port, and both the mouse and
> keyboard work.  I didn't try any other approaches, I mean, I didn't try to
> see if only one of the KVM output cables connected to the computer would
> be sufficient.
> 
>I am just a little worried that maybe the mouse and keyboard signals are
> going into both the PS/2 port and a USB port, and that maybe someday I'll
> encounter some kind of problem because of that, but, for now I'm happy that
> everything (on these two computers) seems to be working ok through the KVM.
> 
> I do have another OT problem related to the laptop and the existing
> installation of Windows on it.  I'll describe that problem later (in a new
> thread) to see if anyone can help.
> 
> Thanks again to the list and those who replied!
> 
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 08:36:32 AM Roger Price wrote:
> > Speaking from experience, another reason to put the KVM switch on the UPS
> > is protection from power surges.  I live in a lightning prone area, and I
> > have lost expensive gear because ancilliary stuff such as a KVM switch
> > with a wired connection to PCs was not protected.

Resolved (and extended): Re: OT: Belkin F1DS104J KVM and PCs on a UPS

[rhkramer]

Thanks to all who replied!

Everybody had good points.  I ended up putting the unit on the non-battery 
side of the UPS (just because I was out of outlets on the battery side and 
didn't want to take the time / space to add a powerstrip or such (space is 
tight behind / under my desk)).  I usually feel that the surge suppression 
there is better than on some inexpensive powerstrips.

In the course of plugging in a power supply for a laptop (which was the reason 
to switch from a 2-port KVM to a 4-port KVM), I accidentally tripped the power 
to the KVM switch with no ill effects, that is, the computer did not lose its 
communication to the monitor, keyboard, and mouse, and, after I repowered the 
KVM, I could switch between the computers as before the power loss, so I'm not 
worried about not being on the UPS.

I did learn some things (one mentioned above), another is:

   * the KVM has inputs for either a PS/2 keyboard and mouse, or a USB 
keyboard and mouse.  My mouse is USB and my keyboard is PS/2.  I found that if 
I plugged the keyboard into the PS/2 port and the mouse into a USB port, that 
would not work for the most finicky computer.  I added a USB to PS/2 converter 
plug to the mouse, plugged them both into USB ports on the KVM, and now things 
worked.

   * the output from the KVM (to the computer) has one USB cable and one PS/2 
cable.  After I did the above, I was able to plug the PS/2 cable into the 
keyboard port on the computer, and the USB cable into a USB plug, and the 
mouse and keyboard both worked.  (I thought I might have to add another USB to 
PS/2 converter plug so that I could plug both cables into the PS/2 ports on 
the computer.

   * The other (desktop) computer I consider less finicky.  (Because, when I 
tried to set it up with the inexpensive 4-port all USB KVM that I bought on 
ebay, it worked with no trouble, the finicky computer would not, even when I 
used things like a cable splitter and USB to PS/2 converter plugs) to plug 
into either both PS/2 "jacks" or two USB ports on the computer (or the various 
possible combinations of one each))

   Anyway, this less finicky computer has only one PS/2 ports, colored half 
pink and half gray, and apparently can work for either a PS/2 mouse or a PS/2 
keyboard (or maybe even both with some kind of "combiner cable").

   I ended up plugging the PS/2 cable from the KVM into the PS/2 port on the 
computer and the USB cable into a USB port, and both the mouse and keyboard 
work.  I didn't try any other approaches, I mean, I didn't try to see if only 
one of the KVM output cables connected to the computer would be sufficient.

   I am just a little worried that maybe the mouse and keyboard signals are 
going into both the PS/2 port and a USB port, and that maybe someday I'll 
encounter some kind of problem because of that, but, for now I'm happy that 
everything (on these two computers) seems to be working ok through the KVM.

I do have another OT problem related to the laptop and the existing 
installation of Windows on it.  I'll describe that problem later (in a new 
thread) to see if anyone can help.

Thanks again to the list and those who replied!




On Thursday, January 30, 2020 08:36:32 AM Roger Price wrote:
> Speaking from experience, another reason to put the KVM switch on the UPS
> is protection from power surges.  I live in a lightning prone area, and I
> have lost expensive gear because ancilliary stuff such as a KVM switch
> with a wired connection to PCs was not protected.

Re: OT: Belkin F1DS104J KVM and PCs on a UPS

[Roger Price]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2020, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:


Anybody have experience with the Belkin F1DS10[2 4]J KVMs?
My question: Does that mean I need to put the KVM on the UPS as well?


Speaking from experience, another reason to put the KVM switch on the UPS is 
protection from power surges.  I live in a lightning prone area, and I have lost 
expensive gear because ancilliary stuff such as a KVM switch with a wired 
connection to PCs was not protected.


Roger

Re: OT: Belkin F1DS104J KVM and PCs on a UPS

[debian]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2020, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:


I just bought a used KVM switch (Belkin F1DS104J) and it requires power (9VDC 
(and has a power brick)), but the instructions say that it
should be powered up before the attached PCs.

My computers (at least the CPUs) are on a UPS to guard against brief power 
outages (thankfully fairly rare -- knock on wood).

My question: Does that mean I need to put the KVM on the UPS as well? If I 
don't, would I have to reboot the CPUs after I get the KVM
powered again?


I don't know how you manage your UPS unit, but if wall power loss causes 
messages to appear on screen giving you advance warning of a possible system 
shutdown, then you probably need to have the switch powered via the same UPS.


Roger

Re: OT: Belkin F1DS104J KVM and PCs on a UPS

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 30.01.2020 17:36, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Anybody have experience with the Belkin F1DS10[2 4]J KVMs?
>
>  
>
> I just bought a used KVM switch (Belkin F1DS104J) and it requires
> power (9VDC (and has a power brick)), but the instructions say that it
> should be powered up before the attached PCs.
>
>  
>
> My computers (at least the CPUs) are on a UPS to guard against brief
> power outages (thankfully fairly rare -- knock on wood).
>
>  
>
> My question: Does that mean I need to put the KVM on the UPS as well?
> If I don't, would I have to reboot the CPUs after I get the KVM
> powered again?
>
I've not used this model in particular, but I think this restriction was
put into manual because it supports PS\2 keyboard and mouse. If you will
use USB keyboard and mouse only, chances are high you can ignore those
instructions and connect\disconnect KVM freely on-the-fly without any
functionality loss.
This theory should be tested, of course, to say for sure. I simply tried
to understand possible logic behind those restrictions.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

OT: Belkin F1DS104J KVM and PCs on a UPS

[rhkramer]

Anybody have experience with the Belkin F1DS10[2 4]J KVMs?

I just bought a used KVM switch (Belkin F1DS104J) and it requires power (9VDC 
(and has a power brick)), but the instructions say that it should be powered 
up  before the attached PCs.

My computers (at least the CPUs) are on a UPS to guard against brief power 
outages (thankfully fairly rare -- knock on wood).

My question: Does that mean I need to put the KVM on the UPS as well?  If I 
don't, would I have to reboot the CPUs after I get the KVM powered again?

Re: Stretch: APC Smart-UPS 1500 & nut

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 12.02.2019 16:16, Grzesiek Sójka wrote:
> I corrected the subject. It was Sid but it should be stretch.
> Sorry, to many computers.
>
> On 2/12/19 10:54 AM, Grzesiek Sójka wrote:
>> On 2/11/19 1:56 PM, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
>>> On 11.02.2019 16:20, Grzesiek Sójka wrote:
>>>> Hi there,
>>>>
>>>> Ups is connected via usb:
>>>>
>>>> Bus 003 Device 002: ID 051d:0002 American Power Conversion
>>>> Uninterruptible Power Supply
>>>>
>>>> Recently I noticed that nut stopped to recognize it (probably after
>>>> some update):
>>>>
>>>> # /lib/nut/usbhid-ups -a APC
>>>> Network UPS Tools - Generic HID driver 0.41 (2.7.4)
>>>> USB communication driver 0.33
>>>> No matching HID UPS found
>>>> # cat /etc/nut/ups.conf
>>>> [APC]
>>>> driver = usbhid-ups
>>>> port = auto
>>>>
>>>> I did try to fix the problem by adding vendor or product options or
>>>> changing the driver but no luck.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions? Is the driver correct?
>>>>
>>> I don't know about nut, but I had similar problems with APC SU1500
>>> models in the past.
>>> They had some kind of firmware bug, or hardware problem with USB
>>> interface and sporadically loose connectivity to host. Also there
>>> was no 
>> [...]
>>
>> I have PLD-linux in chroot ad I did run the following:
>>
>> # /lib/nut/usbhid-ups -u root -a APC
>> Network UPS Tools - Generic HID driver 0.41 (2.7.4)
>> USB communication driver 0.33
>> Using subdriver: APC HID 0.96
>>
>> As you can see, result is positive. No reboot, the same kernel. So,
>> this is 100% software problem related to Debian. A bug maybe??
>>
>> Any suggestions? Workaround?? Different driver??
>>
>
Smart-UPS models have two kinds of signal communications - Basic and Smart
Smart signaling offers more functionality and in general recommended to
use by APC.
I'd try to use "apcsmart" driver in nut config. [1]
For other things to try I'd check recent apt installation logs for
installed packages relevant to this case.
Also checking syslog for any clues would be a good place to start and
see how UPS is recognized by the system when connected and what
permissions assigned to it by udev.

[1] https://networkupstools.org/docs/man/apcsmart.html

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

Re: Stretch: APC Smart-UPS 1500 & nut

[Grzesiek Sójka]

I corrected the subject. It was Sid but it should be stretch.
Sorry, to many computers.

On 2/12/19 10:54 AM, Grzesiek Sójka wrote:

On 2/11/19 1:56 PM, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

On 11.02.2019 16:20, Grzesiek Sójka wrote:

Hi there,

Ups is connected via usb:

Bus 003 Device 002: ID 051d:0002 American Power Conversion 
Uninterruptible Power Supply


Recently I noticed that nut stopped to recognize it (probably after 
some update):


# /lib/nut/usbhid-ups -a APC
Network UPS Tools - Generic HID driver 0.41 (2.7.4)
USB communication driver 0.33
No matching HID UPS found
# cat /etc/nut/ups.conf
[APC]
driver = usbhid-ups
port = auto

I did try to fix the problem by adding vendor or product options or 
changing the driver but no luck.


Any suggestions? Is the driver correct?

I don't know about nut, but I had similar problems with APC SU1500 
models in the past.
They had some kind of firmware bug, or hardware problem with USB 
interface and sporadically loose connectivity to host. Also there was no 

[...]

I have PLD-linux in chroot ad I did run the following:

# /lib/nut/usbhid-ups -u root -a APC
Network UPS Tools - Generic HID driver 0.41 (2.7.4)
USB communication driver 0.33
Using subdriver: APC HID 0.96

As you can see, result is positive. No reboot, the same kernel. So, this 
is 100% software problem related to Debian. A bug maybe??


Any suggestions? Workaround?? Different driver??

Re: Sid: APC Smart-UPS 1500 & nut

[Grzesiek Sójka]

On 2/11/19 1:56 PM, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

On 11.02.2019 16:20, Grzesiek Sójka wrote:

Hi there,

Ups is connected via usb:

Bus 003 Device 002: ID 051d:0002 American Power Conversion 
Uninterruptible Power Supply


Recently I noticed that nut stopped to recognize it (probably after 
some update):


# /lib/nut/usbhid-ups -a APC
Network UPS Tools - Generic HID driver 0.41 (2.7.4)
USB communication driver 0.33
No matching HID UPS found
# cat /etc/nut/ups.conf
[APC]
driver = usbhid-ups
port = auto

I did try to fix the problem by adding vendor or product options or 
changing the driver but no luck.


Any suggestions? Is the driver correct?

I don't know about nut, but I had similar problems with APC SU1500 
models in the past.
They had some kind of firmware bug, or hardware problem with USB 
interface and sporadically loose connectivity to host. Also there was no 

[...]

I have PLD-linux in chroot ad I did run the following:

# /lib/nut/usbhid-ups -u root -a APC
Network UPS Tools - Generic HID driver 0.41 (2.7.4)
USB communication driver 0.33
Using subdriver: APC HID 0.96

As you can see, result is positive. No reboot, the same kernel. So, this 
is 100% software problem related to Debian. A bug maybe??


Any suggestions? Workaround?? Different driver??

Re: Sid: APC Smart-UPS 1500 & nut

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 11.02.2019 16:20, Grzesiek Sójka wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Ups is connected via usb:
>
> Bus 003 Device 002: ID 051d:0002 American Power Conversion
> Uninterruptible Power Supply
>
> Recently I noticed that nut stopped to recognize it (probably after
> some update):
>
> # /lib/nut/usbhid-ups -a APC
> Network UPS Tools - Generic HID driver 0.41 (2.7.4)
> USB communication driver 0.33
> No matching HID UPS found
> # cat /etc/nut/ups.conf
> [APC]
> driver = usbhid-ups
> port = auto
>
> I did try to fix the problem by adding vendor or product options or
> changing the driver but no luck.
>
> Any suggestions? Is the driver correct?
>
I don't know about nut, but I had similar problems with APC SU1500
models in the past.
They had some kind of firmware bug, or hardware problem with USB
interface and sporadically loose connectivity to host. Also there was no
way to recover UPS from this state other than performing "cold reset"
procedure. [1] After that USB connectivity was restored and continued to
function until this bug is triggered again, which could happen in a span
from few hours to weeks.
In the end I've resolved this nightmare by creating custom 9pin
COM-to-COM cables [2] [3] and stopped to use USB ports. Additionally, in
some cases I had to reprogram UPS firmware via terminal, [4] to get it
working again and be discovered by management software. This also could
be useful to perform basic connectivity diagnostics.

There are some bookmarks I saved about this problem that could be useful:
[1] https://www.schneider-electric.com/en/faqs/FA156611/
[2] http://news-posts.aplawrence.com/472.html
[3] http://pinoutguide.com/UPS/apc_smart_cable_pinout.shtml
[4] http://www.joeteck.com/apc.htm

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

Sid: APC Smart-UPS 1500 & nut

[Grzesiek Sójka]

Hi there,

Ups is connected via usb:

Bus 003 Device 002: ID 051d:0002 American Power Conversion 
Uninterruptible Power Supply


Recently I noticed that nut stopped to recognize it (probably after some 
update):


# /lib/nut/usbhid-ups -a APC
Network UPS Tools - Generic HID driver 0.41 (2.7.4)
USB communication driver 0.33
No matching HID UPS found
# cat /etc/nut/ups.conf
[APC]
driver = usbhid-ups
port = auto

I did try to fix the problem by adding vendor or product options or 
changing the driver but no luck.


Any suggestions? Is the driver correct?

Ps.

# apt --installed list | egrep 'linux-image|nut-' | cut -d' ' -f1
linux-image-4.18.0-0.bpo.3-amd64/now
linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.1-amd64-unsigned/stretch-backports,now
linux-image-amd64/stretch-backports,now
nut-client/stable,now
nut-server/stable,now

RE: Re: nut et ups

[tech]

pas de soucis en ports:



ma conf:  tcp/upg 3493 présente et active


#!/bin/sh
# Vider les tables actuelles
# iptables -t filter -F
# Vider les règles personnelles
iptables -t filter -X
# Interdire toute connexion entrante et sortante
iptables -t filter -P INPUT DROP iptables -t filter -P FORWARD DROP iptables -t 
filter -P OUTPUT ACCEPT
# --- Ne pas casser les connexions etablies
iptables -A INPUT -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT iptables -A 
OUTPUT -m state --state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
# Autoriser loopback
iptables -t filter -A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A OUTPUT -o lo 
-j ACCEPT
# ICMP (Ping)
iptables -t filter -A INPUT -p icmp -j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A OUTPUT -p 
icmp -j ACCEPT
# --- SSH In
iptables -t filter -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -j ACCEPT
# SSH Out
iptables -t filter -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -j ACCEPT
# DNS In/Out
iptables -t filter -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A 
OUTPUT -p udp --dport 53
-j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT iptables -t 
filter -A INPUT -p udp
--dport 53 -j ACCEPT
# NTP Out
iptables -t filter -A OUTPUT -p udp --dport 123 -j ACCEPT
# HTTP + HTTPS Out
iptables -t filter -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 80 -j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A 
OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 443
-j ACCEPT
# HTTP + HTTPS In
iptables -t filter -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 80 -j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A 
INPUT -p tcp --dport 443
-j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 8443 -j ACCEPT
# FTP Out
iptables -t filter -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 20:21 -j ACCEPT
# FTP In
modprobe ip_conntrack_ftp # ligne facultative avec les serveurs OVH iptables -t 
filter -A INPUT -p tcp
--dport 20:21 -j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A INPUT -m state --state 
ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT
# NUT/UPST
iptables -t filter -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 3493 -j ACCEPT   
<
iptables -t filter -A INPUT -p udp --dport 3493 -j ACCEPT  
<
# webmin
iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 1 -j ACCEPT
#Samba
iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 135 -j ACCEPT iptables -A INPUT -p TCP 
--dport 137 -j ACCEPT
iptables -A INPUT -p TCP --dport 138 -j ACCEPT iptables -A INPUT -p TCP --dport 
139 -j ACCEPT iptables
-A INPUT -p TCP --dport 445 -j ACCEPT iptables -A INPUT -p UDP --dport 135 -j 
ACCEPT iptables -A INPUT
-p UDP --dport 137 -j ACCEPT iptables -A INPUT -p UDP --dport 138 -j ACCEPT 
iptables -A INPUT -p UDP
--dport 139 -j ACCEPT iptables -A INPUT -p UDP --dport 445 -j ACCEPT
# FINAL RULE
# EOF !




De : babouchko 
Envoyé : lundi 25 juin 2018 15:20:27
À : tech
Cc : debian
Objet : Re: Re: nut et ups

Le port est ouvert ? (que dit netstat)
Ton firewall est off ? (un petit flush)
Autre piste(mais j'y crois pas),  tu as mis les bons droits/utilisateurs sur 
les fichiers ?
Bab

Le lun. 25 juin 2018 à 15:15, tech  a écrit :

Bonjour.


Si SSl désactive, le problème est le meme.

Si SSl purgé totalement via apt-get purge idem


Error: Connection failure: Connection refused


rien sur github, la communauté nut semble être en long sommeil ou morte. Rien 
non plus en doc -faq ou support sur 
networkupstools.org<http://networkupstools.org>


De : babouchko mailto:babouc...@gmail.com>>
Envoyé : lundi 25 juin 2018 15:07:48
À : tech
Cc : debian
Objet : Re:

Bonjour,
Et sans SSL ca ne fct pas non plus ?
Je me souviens plus dr l'option maos tu peux ld désactiver dans un premier 
temps...
Après, si tu veux utiliser ssl, as tu mis e' place les certificats ?
Bab

Le lun. 25 juin 2018 à 14:56, tech  a écrit :


Bonjour,

j'ai créé :  : https://github.com/networkupstools/nut/issues/563


Je tente d'utiliser un onduleur EATON 850pro via USB sur une Debian Stretch 
Stable.
J'ai letsencrypt sur cette machine.

Dans les logs j'ai:
upsmon Can not initialize SSL context

si 850pro est connecté via usb:

lsusb
Bus 009 Device 003: ID 0463:ffff MGE UPS Systems UPS
after install nut using apt-get
apt-get install nut libupsclient1 nut-client nut-server
upsdrvctl start

Network UPS Tools - UPS driver controller 2.7.4
Network UPS Tools - Generic HID driver 0.41 (2.7.4)
USB communication driver 0.33
Using subdriver: MGE HID 1.39
nut=standalone

mes confs:
/etc/nut/ups.conf

[850PRO]
driver = usbhid-ups
port = auto
desc = "850PRO"
/etc/nut/upsd.conf

STATEPATH /var/run/nut
MAXCONN 1024
# CERTFILE /etc/letsencrypt/live/REDACTED/cert.pem
CERTPATH /etc/letsencrypt/live/REDACTED/
# CERTIDENT "my nut server" "MyPasSw0rD"
# CERTREQUEST REQUIRE
#  - 0 to not request to clients to provide any certificate
#  - 1 to require to all clients a certificate
#  - 2 to require to all clients a valid certificate
LISTEN ::1 3493
LISTEN 127.0.0.1 3493
/etc/nut/upsd.users

#upsmon master
[admin]
password = 1401
allowfrom = localhost
upsmon master
actions = SET
instcmds = ALL

Re: Re: nut et ups

[babouchko]

Le port est ouvert ? (que dit netstat)
Ton firewall est off ? (un petit flush)
Autre piste(mais j'y crois pas),  tu as mis les bons droits/utilisateurs
sur les fichiers ?
Bab

Le lun. 25 juin 2018 à 15:15, tech  a écrit :

> Bonjour.
>
>
> Si SSl désactive, le problème est le meme.
>
> Si SSl purgé totalement via apt-get purge idem
>
>
> Error: Connection failure: Connection refused
>
>
> rien sur github, la communauté nut semble être en long sommeil ou morte.
> Rien non plus en doc -faq ou support sur networkupstools.org
> --
> *De :* babouchko 
> *Envoyé :* lundi 25 juin 2018 15:07:48
> *À :* tech
> *Cc :* debian
> *Objet :* Re:
>
> Bonjour,
> Et sans SSL ca ne fct pas non plus ?
> Je me souviens plus dr l'option maos tu peux ld désactiver dans un premier
> temps...
> Après, si tu veux utiliser ssl, as tu mis e' place les certificats ?
> Bab
>
> Le lun. 25 juin 2018 à 14:56, tech  a écrit :
>
>>
>>
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> j'ai créé :  : https://github.com/networkupstools/nut/issues/563
>>
>>
>> Je tente d'utiliser un onduleur EATON 850pro via USB sur une Debian
>> Stretch Stable.
>> J'ai letsencrypt sur cette machine.
>>
>> Dans les logs j'ai:
>> upsmon Can not initialize SSL context
>>
>> si 850pro est connecté via usb:
>>
>> lsusb
>> Bus 009 Device 003: ID 0463: MGE UPS Systems UPS
>> after install nut using apt-get
>> apt-get install nut libupsclient1 nut-client nut-server
>> upsdrvctl start
>>
>> Network UPS Tools - UPS driver controller 2.7.4
>> Network UPS Tools - Generic HID driver 0.41 (2.7.4)
>> USB communication driver 0.33
>> Using subdriver: MGE HID 1.39
>> nut=standalone
>>
>> mes confs:
>> /etc/nut/ups.conf
>>
>> [850PRO]
>> driver = usbhid-ups
>> port = auto
>> desc = "850PRO"
>> /etc/nut/upsd.conf
>>
>> STATEPATH /var/run/nut
>> MAXCONN 1024
>> # CERTFILE /etc/letsencrypt/live/REDACTED/cert.pem
>> CERTPATH /etc/letsencrypt/live/REDACTED/
>> # CERTIDENT "my nut server" "MyPasSw0rD"
>> # CERTREQUEST REQUIRE
>> #  - 0 to not request to clients to provide any certificate
>> #  - 1 to require to all clients a certificate
>> #  - 2 to require to all clients a valid certificate
>> LISTEN ::1 3493
>> LISTEN 127.0.0.1 3493
>> /etc/nut/upsd.users
>>
>> #upsmon master
>> [admin]
>> password = 1401
>> allowfrom = localhost
>> upsmon master
>> actions = SET
>> instcmds = ALL
>> /etc/nut/upsmon.conf
>>
>> MINSUPPLIES 1
>> SHUTDOWNCMD "/sbin/shutdown -h +1"
>> POLLFREQ 10
>> POLLFREQALERT 10
>> HOSTSYNC 15
>> DEADTIME 20
>> POWERDOWNFLAG /etc/killpower
>> RBWARNTIME 432000
>> NOCOMMWARNTIME 300
>> FINALDELAY 4
>> CERTPATH /etc/letsencrypt/live/REDACTED/
>> # CERTHOST
>> # CERTVERIFY 1
>> # FORCESSL 0
>> MONITOR 850PRO@localhost 1 admin 1401 master
>> SHUTDOWNCMD "/sbin/shutdown -h now"
>> HOSTSYNC 15
>> POWERDOWNFLAG /etc/nut/killpower
>> FINALDELAY 5
>> NOTIFYCMD /sbin/upssched
>> NOTIFYMSG ONBATT "%s is on battery"
>> NOTIFYMSG ONLINE "%s is back online"
>> NOTIFYMSG LOWBATT "%s has a low battery!"
>> NOTIFYMSG SHUTDOWN "System is being shutdown!"
>> NOTIFYFLAG ONLINE SYSLOG+EXEC
>> NOTIFYFLAG ONBATT SYSLOG+EXEC
>> NOTIFYFLAG LOWBATT SYSLOG+EXEC
>> NOTIFYFLAG FSD SYSLOG+WALL+EXEC
>> NOTIFYFLAG COMMOK SYSLOG+EXEC
>> NOTIFYFLAG COMMBAD SYSLOG+EXEC
>> NOTIFYFLAG SHUTDOWN SYSLOG+EXEC
>> NOTIFYFLAG REPLBATT SYSLOG+EXEC
>> NOTIFYFLAG NOCOMM SYSLOG+EXEC
>> /etc/nut/upssched.conf
>>
>> LOCKFN /var/lib/nut/upssched.lock
>> PIPEFN /var/lib/nut/upssched.pipe
>> CMDSCRIPT /bin/upssched-cmd
>> AT ONBATT * START-TIMER onbatt1 13
>> AT ONLINE * CANCEL-TIMER onbatt1
>> #AT ONBATT * START-TIMER earlyshutdown 30
>> #AT ONLINE * CANCEL-TIMER earlyshutdown
>> AT ONBATT * START-TIMER onbattwarn 30
>> AT ONLINE * CANCEL-TIMER onbattwarn
>> when doing:
>> /etc/init.d/ups-monitor restart && tail -f /var/log/syslog
>> output:
>>
>> [ ok ] Restarting ups-monitor (via systemctl): ups-monitor.service.
>> Jun 19 16:34:54 REDACTED systemd[1]: Stopping LSB: Network UPS Tools
>> monitor initscript...
>> Jun 19 16:34:55 REDACTED ups-monitor[7377]: Stopping NUT - power device
>> monitor and shutdown controller: nut-client.
>> Jun 19 1

Re: Power draw from UPS

[deloptes]

Goran wrote:

> Yes, I checked with a simple wattmeter and it's correct.
> 
> [send by mobile device]


ahh, those mobile devices... you top posted

What exactly did you check, so that it is correct ... I'm a simple man and
can not read minds yet.

regards

Re: Power draw from UPS

[Goran]

Yes, I checked with a simple wattmeter and it's correct.

[send by mobile device]

Am 28.07.2017 4:07 nachm. schrieb "Dan Ritter" <d...@randomstring.org>:

> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 01:04:30PM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > g wrote:
> > > I've found out that apcaccess is my friend. When used with attached UPC
> > > via USB, it tells a lot about the UPC:
> > >
> > > https://linux.die.net/man/8/apcaccess
> > >
> > > and the line
> > >
> > > RETPCT : Battery charge % required after power off to restore power
> > >
> > > is the key. My UPC has a max power of 900 watt. RETPCT shows 30.0%. So:
> > >
> > > 900w x 0.30 = 270w
> > >
> > > 270 watt is the actual power draw of my server.
> >
> > Maybe I'm misreading it -- but it sounds like "RETPCT" is the required
> > battery charge level before the UPS will restore power to connected
> > devices, assuming the battery runs flat.
>
> Yeah. I think that LOADPCT * NOMPOWER gives you the actual
> usage.
>
> -dsr-
>
>

Re: Power draw from UPS

[Dan Ritter]

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 01:04:30PM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
> g wrote:
> > I've found out that apcaccess is my friend. When used with attached UPC
> > via USB, it tells a lot about the UPC:
> >
> > https://linux.die.net/man/8/apcaccess
> >
> > and the line
> >
> > RETPCT : Battery charge % required after power off to restore power
> >
> > is the key. My UPC has a max power of 900 watt. RETPCT shows 30.0%. So:
> >
> > 900w x 0.30 = 270w
> >
> > 270 watt is the actual power draw of my server.
> 
> Maybe I'm misreading it -- but it sounds like "RETPCT" is the required
> battery charge level before the UPS will restore power to connected
> devices, assuming the battery runs flat.

Yeah. I think that LOADPCT * NOMPOWER gives you the actual
usage.

-dsr-

Re: Power draw from UPS

[Dan Purgert]

g wrote:
> I've found out that apcaccess is my friend. When used with attached UPC
> via USB, it tells a lot about the UPC:
>
> https://linux.die.net/man/8/apcaccess
>
> and the line
>
> RETPCT : Battery charge % required after power off to restore power
>
> is the key. My UPC has a max power of 900 watt. RETPCT shows 30.0%. So:
>
> 900w x 0.30 = 270w
>
> 270 watt is the actual power draw of my server.

Maybe I'm misreading it -- but it sounds like "RETPCT" is the required
battery charge level before the UPS will restore power to connected
devices, assuming the battery runs flat.


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: Power draw from UPS

[g]

I've found out that apcaccess is my friend. When used with attached UPC
via USB, it tells a lot about the UPC:

https://linux.die.net/man/8/apcaccess

and the line

RETPCT : Battery charge % required after power off to restore power

is the key. My UPC has a max power of 900 watt. RETPCT shows 30.0%. So:

900w x 0.30 = 270w

270 watt is the actual power draw of my server.

Regards
 
Am Donnerstag, den 27.07.2017, 20:46 +0200 schrieb Jörg-Volker Peetz:
> Maybe this is helpful
> APC UPS - ArchWiki https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/APC_UPS
> Please report back if and how it works.
> 
> Regards,
> jvp.
> 

Re: Power draw from UPS

[Jörg-Volker Peetz]

Maybe this is helpful
APC UPS - ArchWiki https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/APC_UPS
Please report back if and how it works.

Regards,
jvp.

Re: Power draw from UPS

[Felix Miata]

g composed on 2017-07-27 12:27 (UTC+0200):

> Hi all, I want to get the power draw from a APC USB UPS. I have managed
> to run apcusbd and apctest. But how to invoke these tools to get the
> actual power draw in Watt x Ampere?

> I've found this page which describes how to read it via RS232 serial
> port.

> https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/got-an-apc-smart-ups-measure-real-
> power-with-it.55847/

> But I dont't have such a port neither a cable.

Sounds like you may be candidate for one of these:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/152386308824
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: Power draw from UPS

[Darac Marjal]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:27:14PM +0200, g wrote:

Hi all, I want to get the power draw from a APC USB UPS. I have managed
to run apcusbd and apctest. But how to invoke these tools to get the
actual power draw in Watt x Ampere?


What model of UPS is it? Many of the newer models use a protocol called
"Microlink" (aka MODBUS over USB) . APC (and their parent Schneider
Electric) have been quite secretive about this protocol, unlike the
older protocol where they provided nice interface specifications.

So, firstly, make sure you're using a sufficently new version of APCUPSd
(3.14.13 or newer). Secondly, check that you're using the modbus
protocol: http://www.apcupsd.org/manual/manual.html#modbus-driver
Finally, if that doesn't help, then it may simply be that the UPS isn't
reporting the required information.



I've found this page which describes how to read it via RS232 serial
port.

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/got-an-apc-smart-ups-measure-real-
power-with-it.55847/

But I dont't have such a port neither a cable.

Regards
Goran



--
For more information, please reread.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Power draw from UPS

[Ron Leach]

On 27/07/2017 11:27, g wrote:

Hi all, I want to get the power draw from a APC USB UPS. I have managed


[...]

But I dont't have such a port neither a cable.



Our APC UPSs included a USB cable in the box.  The cable uses a USB 
plug at one end (into the linux machine) and a different plug at the 
other end, looking something similar to RJ11 or RJ45 sort of 
appearance, to plug into the APC UPS.


regards, Ron

Re: Power draw from UPS

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:27:14PM +0200, g wrote:
> Hi all, I want to get the power draw from a APC USB UPS. I have managed
> to run apcusbd and apctest. But how to invoke these tools to get the
> actual power draw in Watt x Ampere?
> 
> I've found this page which describes how to read it via RS232 serial
> port.
> 
> https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/got-an-apc-smart-ups-measure-real-
> power-with-it.55847/
> 
> But I dont't have such a port neither a cable.

It's most likely that the USB "appears" as a virtual serial
port. Try the command "lsusb" on a console. The option "-v"
makes it more verbose.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAll5wqkACgkQBcgs9XrR2kaYvACePSp8iQ14cVcu/PqHNt9vV5g6
uIEAnjGSsqlcE+hHWtn9HV7SsldLiqUw
=H773
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Power draw from UPS

[g]

Hi all, I want to get the power draw from a APC USB UPS. I have managed
to run apcusbd and apctest. But how to invoke these tools to get the
actual power draw in Watt x Ampere?

I've found this page which describes how to read it via RS232 serial
port.

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/got-an-apc-smart-ups-measure-real-
power-with-it.55847/

But I dont't have such a port neither a cable.

Regards
Goran

Re: Back-UPS R S 1500???

[Jorge A. Secreto]

Primero disculpas por haberte contestado al privado.

El día 14 de junio de 2017, 11:38,  <admin@dpc.capgrm.co.cu> escribió:
> Entre en:
>  /etc/default/apcupsd
>
>
> Y habilite:
> ISCONFIGURED=yes
>
> Pero pienso que hay que hacer algo mas como darle a que por ciento se apaga
> la máquina...

Si hiciste eso, ya sabés mas que yo de apcupsd :-D
Probaste con man apcupsd?
Instalaste apcupsd-doc?
Ahí vienen ejemplos de configuración

>
>
> El 2017-06-14 10:07, admin@dpc.capgrm.co.cu escribió:
>>
>> Ya instale el apcupsd, que mas debo hacer Jorge
>>
>>
>> El 2017-06-14 09:58, Jorge A. Secreto escribió:
>>>
>>> hola
>>>
>>> El día 14 de junio de 2017, 10:35,  <admin@dpc.capgrm.co.cu>
>>> escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tengo un Back-UPS R S 1500 en el servidor Debian 8 Jessie y cuando hay
>>>>> algún fallo de corriente y acaba la carga se apaga bruscamente el
>>>>> server, mi preguntHOla que instalación podría ayudarme apagar el
>>>>> server cuando este la batería ejemplo al 30% de carga de forma
>>>>> automática igual que lo hace con windows server, decirles que soy
>>>>> totalmente de paquete en esto de LINUX no tengo experiencia al
>>>>> respecto, así que tratenme con calma al respecto...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> copiado desde synaptic
>>>
>>> apcupsd provides UPS power management for APC products, including most
>>> BackUPS
>>> series models (including USB), SmartUPS V/S, SmartUPS (NET/RM), and
>>> Matrix
>>> series.
>>>
>>> It controls and monitors the status of UPS and allows your computer to
>>> run for
>>> a specified length of time on UPS power, and then executes a controlled
>>> shutdown in the case of an extended power failure.
>>>
>>> Suerte
>
>

Abrazos


-- 
Jorge A Secreto
Analista de Sistemas
MP 361

Re: Back-UPS R S 1500???

[admin . red]

Entre en:
 /etc/default/apcupsd


Y habilite:
ISCONFIGURED=yes

Pero pienso que hay que hacer algo mas como darle a que por ciento se 
apaga la máquina...


El 2017-06-14 10:07, admin@dpc.capgrm.co.cu escribió:

Ya instale el apcupsd, que mas debo hacer Jorge


El 2017-06-14 09:58, Jorge A. Secreto escribió:

hola

El día 14 de junio de 2017, 10:35,  <admin@dpc.capgrm.co.cu> 
escribió:
Tengo un Back-UPS R S 1500 en el servidor Debian 8 Jessie y cuando 
hay

algún fallo de corriente y acaba la carga se apaga bruscamente el
server, mi preguntHOla que instalación podría ayudarme apagar el
server cuando este la batería ejemplo al 30% de carga de forma
automática igual que lo hace con windows server, decirles que soy
totalmente de paquete en esto de LINUX no tengo experiencia al
respecto, así que tratenme con calma al respecto...





copiado desde synaptic

apcupsd provides UPS power management for APC products, including most 
BackUPS
series models (including USB), SmartUPS V/S, SmartUPS (NET/RM), and 
Matrix

series.

It controls and monitors the status of UPS and allows your computer to 
run for
a specified length of time on UPS power, and then executes a 
controlled

shutdown in the case of an extended power failure.

Suerte

Re: Back-UPS R S 1500???

[admin . red]

Ya instale el apcupsd, que mas debo hacer Jorge


El 2017-06-14 09:58, Jorge A. Secreto escribió:

hola

El día 14 de junio de 2017, 10:35,  <admin@dpc.capgrm.co.cu> 
escribió:
Tengo un Back-UPS R S 1500 en el servidor Debian 8 Jessie y cuando 
hay

algún fallo de corriente y acaba la carga se apaga bruscamente el
server, mi preguntHOla que instalación podría ayudarme apagar el
server cuando este la batería ejemplo al 30% de carga de forma
automática igual que lo hace con windows server, decirles que soy
totalmente de paquete en esto de LINUX no tengo experiencia al
respecto, así que tratenme con calma al respecto...





copiado desde synaptic

apcupsd provides UPS power management for APC products, including most 
BackUPS
series models (including USB), SmartUPS V/S, SmartUPS (NET/RM), and 
Matrix

series.

It controls and monitors the status of UPS and allows your computer to 
run for

a specified length of time on UPS power, and then executes a controlled
shutdown in the case of an extended power failure.

Suerte

Re: Back-UPS R S 1500???

[admin . red]

Tengo un Back-UPS R S 1500 en el servidor Debian 8 Jessie y cuando hay
algún fallo de corriente y acaba la carga se apaga bruscamente el
server, mi pregunta es que instalación podría ayudarme apagar el
server cuando este la batería ejemplo al 30% de carga de forma
automática igual que lo hace con windows server, decirles que soy
totalmente de paquete en esto de LINUX no tengo experiencia al
respecto, así que tratenme con calma al respecto...