Re: [DNG] Used *and* free hardware (was: Re: The FSF seems to have finally sold out)

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):

> There are a couple kinds of specialty hardware:
> 
> 1) Antiquated stuff
> 
> 2) Newish stuff that just might make it

Granted, and a fair point.  So, I'll clarify that for my own present
discussion, I've been talking entirely, exclusively about category #1,
antiquated stuff.  E.g., the aforementions PowerPC variants including as
a minor and somewhat comical example my G3 iBook.

(I belatedly looked down, Steve, and saw that we do concur about
category #1.  So, the following is _not_ aimed at you, and thank you for
the additional supporting sanity.  Please indulge me while I drive my
point rapidly into the ground.  I hope the following is amusing reading.)


If one wishes to talk separately about category #2, anyone who so wishes
is welcome to proceed on that subject separately without me, as I am
talking about antiquated.

Exemplars of antiquated designs, being both physically very old and
(typically) no longer in stock hardly anywhere, are fragile and can be
expected to have very limited and unpredictable remaining service life.
As they (inevitably) develop various problems inherent in old computer
hardware, the owner finds to his/her displeasure that replacement parts
have now become a _specialty_ market, hence more expensive than
previously in constant-per-year value, not to mention the equipment now
being (IMO) woefully deficient in quite a variety of ways compared to
more-recent and more-standard kit.

There was a day when the writing was on the wall that nobody with any
common sense would -- with probable rare and exotic exceptions -- put
any more money into PPC-anything-based systems, and that was around the
time that not just Apple but pretty much everyone else gave up on it
and, with a heavy heart, migrated to x86_64.  If memory serves, that was
right around the year 2006, when even diehard G5 PPC fans gave up.

My G3 iBook dated from circa 2002 CE.  GNU cal tells me that this lovely
present day is in the year 2018 CE, sixteen years later.  If this has
been an automobile, it would analogously be a Datsun (the name of Nissan
in the USA from 1956 to 1986, when the USA joined the rest of the world
for a change).  It would be a car with sparkplugs and bias-ply tyres,
because radials were too new-fangled.

In 2018, the rational attitude to PowerPC, IMO, is indulgent laughter
and 'Then we let it go.'  And it would IMO be the height of folly to add
_any_ of the we-now-know innumerable, mutually incompatible and
gloriously irrelevant PPC variants as a supported architecture to a 2018
Linux distribution.

I'm old.  But I'm not that stupid, and I hope Devuan Project isn't,
either.


OK, I lied.  I respect your views, Steve, so I'll say a couple of words
about category #2.

> Examples of #2 are
> various Raspberry Pi's, Beaglebone, various modern SOC's.

This is certainly _less_ outright unreasonable, but as a generality,
each of these is to a large degree a special snowflake.  Special
snowflakes are time sinks.  IMO, a projecct in Devuan's present age and
condition should be wary of those, as each is very, very likely to
divide resources and complicate planning for the project.

You probably remember what happened to Debian Project when the supported
architectures reached a totally absurd quantity, right?  Something like
14 at the maximum?  The project as a whole started becoming even more
unwieldy than it had been, and frequency of releases became so rare that
it became a standing joke all across the Internet.  Debian was, among
the technical problems, caught in (one of many) political snarls that
then took years to unsnarl.  This should be a cautionary tale:  Add
special-snowflake platforms, no matter how trendy, with extreme caution.

And yes, RPi is a special snowflake.  kernel.org kernels _still_ cannot
run on them, large and specialised and obscure out-of-tree patchsets are
requires, a special bootloader is required, etc. -- qualities RPi so far
shares with every other ARM variant of any description.

Some day, inshallah, that may change.  That day is reportedly not today,
and tomorrow seems unlikely, too.

'Various modern SOEs?'  Please cite even one of those that runs any
current kernel.org kernel, and works with anything you can call a
reasonably standard bootloader without breaking out laughing.  OR, hey,
can you name one of which even _one_ of those two things is the case?
I'll believe it when I see it, and I'm not going to hold my breath
waiting for an example.

Do specialty products whenever the project seriously and soberly doesn't
need the time and resources for something more important.  I think you
will find that that time will be a long distance from now.

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Re: [DNG] Used *and* free hardware (was: Re: The FSF seems to have finally sold out)

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 17:37:56 -0700
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Quoting Luciano Mannucci (luci...@vespaperitivo.it):
> 
> > Hmm, I guess that a couple of virtual machines under KVM/Qemu on an 
> > IBM S802L Power8 are'nt enough... (I could provide them :)
> > I have an old G4 MacBook that I should check to see if it is still
> > working...  
> 
> I have an antique G3 Macbook, so I'm one up on you, there.  ;->  It
> still functions, for long-ago values of 'function'.
> 
> Sometimes, people ask me what it runs, and the usual answer is 'It
> doesn't run anything, exactly; it walks Debian briskly.'
> 
> Personally, I think it makes a lot more sense to let this stuff go.
> IMO, Devuan has enough to handle without delving into specialty
> hardware. (Just my two zorkmids and change.  Your Views May
> Differ.{tm})

There are a couple kinds of specialty hardware:

1) Antiquated stuff

2) Newish stuff that just might make it

Examples of #1 are VAX, PowerPC, Sun hardware. Examples of #2 are
various Raspberry Pi's, Beaglebone, various modern SOC's.

IMHO #1 is a waste of time, just like Rick said. #2 might be a good
thing, so as to get a sans-systemd distro onto tiny computers and not
forfeit to Debian's specialty OS.

SteveT
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 19:16:40 +
KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 01:32:01PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > > Great. Let's do it then. It's a tiny change that costs nothing and
> > > makes life a lot easier for many users. We could just package it
> > > and include it among the deps of XFCE.  
> > 
> > If it's not installed by default, you still have the buried shovel:
> > The user who can't read the fonts can't install the package.
> > 
> > What do you all think of also connecting a pair of hotkeys to
> > increase and decrease fonts via fontsnaps?
> > 
> >  
> 
> I understand your former comment, but the latter seems
> inconsequential: if you don't have the package installed by default,
> the keybindingss won't work.
> 
> My suggestion was exactly to have the fontsnaps package included as a
> dep in all the supported "task-*-desktop", so that it gets installed
> automatically if the user install task-whatever-desktop.
> 
> Steve: would you like to help with that? 

Yes.

SteveT
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Re: [DNG] Used *and* free hardware (was: Re: The FSF seems to have finally sold out)

[Rick Moen]

Correcting:

> I have an antique G3 Macbook, so I'm one up on you, there.  ;->  It
> still functions, for long-ago values of 'function'.

Technically, it's a G3 _iBook_.  I'm unclear off the top of my head,
especially after so many years, whether any machine was called 'Macbook'
back in the Pleistocene when this thing was being manufactured and sold.

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Re: [DNG] Used *and* free hardware (was: Re: The FSF seems to have finally sold out)

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Luciano Mannucci (luci...@vespaperitivo.it):

> Hmm, I guess that a couple of virtual machines under KVM/Qemu on an 
> IBM S802L Power8 are'nt enough... (I could provide them :)
> I have an old G4 MacBook that I should check to see if it is still
> working...

I have an antique G3 Macbook, so I'm one up on you, there.  ;->  It
still functions, for long-ago values of 'function'.

Sometimes, people ask me what it runs, and the usual answer is 'It
doesn't run anything, exactly; it walks Debian briskly.'

Personally, I think it makes a lot more sense to let this stuff go.
IMO, Devuan has enough to handle without delving into specialty hardware.
(Just my two zorkmids and change.  Your Views May Differ.{tm})


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[DNG] apt-mirror config for a local Devuan repo

[KatolaZ]

Dear D1rs,

since we are talking of creating a local or LAN Devuan mirror, I
thought that posting a working configuration for apt-mirror could be
found useful. Please find at the bottom an example of what you should
have in your /etc/apt/mirrors.list in order to get a full local Devuan
repo for amd64, i386, and sources. You can use deb.devuan.org instead
of pkgmaster.devuan.org, if you like, or any of the package mirrors
listed at:

  https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt

Notice that the program apt-mirror must be executed by the user
"apt-mirror", who should have rwx access to the base_path specified in
the mirrors.list file. For more information, man apt-mirror 

Useful information on setting up a Devuan package mirror can be found
at:

  https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt

If you want to setup a *public* Devuan package mirror instead, please
follow the instructions reported in the walkthrough and get in touch
as specified therein.

HTH

KatolaZ

  -+-+-+-

# config ##
#
# base_path is the local path where your mirror will be created
set base_path/srv/apt-mirror
#
# set mirror_path  $base_path/mirror
# set skel_path$base_path/skel
# set var_path $base_path/var
# set cleanscript $var_path/clean.sh
# set defaultarch  
# set postmirror_script $var_path/postmirror.sh
# set run_postmirror 0
set nthreads 20
set _tilde 0
#
# end config ##

# mirroring package sources
deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii main contrib non-free


# mirroring binary architectures
deb-amd64 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii main contrib non-free 
main/debian-installer
deb-i386  http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii main contrib non-free 
main/debian-installer
deb-amd64 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan ascii main contrib non-free 
main/debian-installer
deb-i386  http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan ascii main contrib non-free 
main/debian-installer


# cleanup obsolete stuff
clean http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged

  -+-+-+-

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 05:44:07PM -0400, fsmithred wrote:

[cut]

> 
> Adding it as a dep is a good idea. Once it's installed, it can be found in
> the menu under "Other" in xfce. I'm not sure where it shows up in other
> menus. The user can dig through the menu and find it once, then copy the
> .desktop files to their desktop. They're in /usr/share/applications/
> LARGER_FONTS.desktop and SMALLER_FONTS.desktop
> 
> Getting the icons on the desktop in the live iso is easy - I just put a
> copy in the rootfs_overlay and it gets copied to the target. I'm not sure
> what the best way would be to do this automatically.
> 
> OK, this works, too. It copies the .desktop files to the current user's
> desktop.
> 
> xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor LARGER_FONTS.desktop
> 
> xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor SMALLER_FONTS.desktop
> 
>


Hi fsmithred,

I was thinking more to an incantation, in the same style of those made
by desktop-base ;)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] ..no response on https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7 so I try here

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 10:22:32PM +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

[cut]

> > 
> > Please notice that the original walkthrough document is always at:
> > 
> >   https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt
> > 
> > In theory, package mirrors (like ftp.fau.de, the one that you mention)
> > should mirror that file automatically, but they are not requested to
> > do so, so it's better to always refer to the version on
> > pkgmaster.devuan.org. If you have suggestions for improvements to the
> > walkthrough, you are welcome to propose them :)
> 
> 
> ..thanks.  _Should_ I really need ssh key access to rsync the 
> "devuan" part of Devuan for my lan mirror?  
> For public mirrors, I totally agree we need ssh key security, 
> but for my lan mirrors?  
>
> ..for non-public lan mirrors I feel ssh key security should be
> optional, so my lan mirrors keep working when my net link dies.
> 

You should use apt-mirror. It works seamlessly. pkgmaster does not
serve the package repo via public rsync.

We will probably put in place another machine to provide a secondary
mirror with public rsync access. 

> 
> > Anyway, you still need a Debian mirror for all the packages that are
> > not forked by Devuan (which are about 95% of all the 18+ packages
> > in Jessie, Ascii, Ceres), so in practice you can't yank the Debian
> > mirror down atm.
> 
> ..correct, unless you're serving Debian clients or keeping an eye on 
> systemd etc conspiracies, the easier approach would be starting with 
> a Debian lan mirror and then "update" that debmirror-style to create
> our own "merged" Devuan package mirror. 
> 
> ..debmirror-style, debmirror should believe any "merged" lie we feed 
> it, once we have those ssh key access issues on "devuan" sorted out.  
> 

Nope. The best approach is to use ftpmirror or apt-mirror, specifying
Devuan's repo in the configuration. This work seamlessly, and will
give you a fully-functional local Devuan mirror. 

HTH

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[fsmithred]

On 03/12/2018 03:16 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 01:32:01PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
>>> Great. Let's do it then. It's a tiny change that costs nothing and
>>> makes life a lot easier for many users. We could just package it and
>>> include it among the deps of XFCE.
>>
>> If it's not installed by default, you still have the buried shovel: The
>> user who can't read the fonts can't install the package.
>>
>> What do you all think of also connecting a pair of hotkeys to increase
>> and decrease fonts via fontsnaps?
>>
>>
> 
> I understand your former comment, but the latter seems
> inconsequential: if you don't have the package installed by default,
> the keybindingss won't work.
> 
> My suggestion was exactly to have the fontsnaps package included as a
> dep in all the supported "task-*-desktop", so that it gets installed
> automatically if the user install task-whatever-desktop.
> 
> Steve: would you like to help with that? 
> 

Adding it as a dep is a good idea. Once it's installed, it can be found in
the menu under "Other" in xfce. I'm not sure where it shows up in other
menus. The user can dig through the menu and find it once, then copy the
.desktop files to their desktop. They're in /usr/share/applications/
LARGER_FONTS.desktop and SMALLER_FONTS.desktop

Getting the icons on the desktop in the live iso is easy - I just put a
copy in the rootfs_overlay and it gets copied to the target. I'm not sure
what the best way would be to do this automatically.

OK, this works, too. It copies the .desktop files to the current user's
desktop.

xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor LARGER_FONTS.desktop

xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor SMALLER_FONTS.desktop


fsmithred

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Re: [DNG] ..no response on https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7 so I try here

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 19:10:30 +, KatolaZ wrote in message 
<20180312191030.ga16...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:

> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 03:43:25PM +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> >   
> > > merged# This is new devuan.org code,  
> > 
> > ..this is "Debian's mirror MINUS systemd PLUS Devuan's code mirror",
> > merger job is done with amprolla's you-don't-wanna-know server side
> > magic.
> >   
> > > size?  
> > 
> > ..today: 2.6TB, according to:
> > https://www.debian.org/mirror/size
> > 
> > 
> > ...or, if you like me have a partial Debian mirror on your lan with
> > source, all, amd64, i386 and hurd-i386 and oldstable/jessie, stable,
> > testing and sid, 413GB.
> > 
> > ..minus hurd-i386, I estimate "merged" to: 365GB and a complete 
> > "devuan+merged" Devuan mirror to: qalc 413-48+13.81 = 379GB.
> >  
> 
> 
> mmmhhh, if you use an external Debian mirror, the actual size of the
> Devuan-specific stuff is only about 14GB atm. A full mirror with all,
> amd64, and i386 is about 140GB per release, atm (so about 420GB if you
> want jessie, ascii, and ceres. Will soon need to add another ~130GB
> for Beowulf ;)).

..I don't have any arm* debs in my lan mirror, Debian reports these 
to 180GB, 179GB and 190GB, how much on our side in "devuan"?

..trying to find out, I found I'm denied rsync access to "devuan" 
because I don't yet have ssh keys, so I joined devuan-mirror and 
asked for ssh key access this afternoon today.

> [cut]
> 
> >   
> > > ..I have a partial (source,amd64,i386,i386-hurd) lan Debian
> > > mirror (bad isp link) and I understand some packages are
> > > identical over here at Devuan, so I guess I can play mirror
> > > guineapig here.   
> > 
> > ..in my case, I'd add "5c) IF YOU HAVE A DEBIAN MIRROR BOX ON YOUR
> > LAN" to ftp://ftp.fau.de/devuan/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt ,
> > swapping out all mentions of "deb.debian.org" in section "5b) IF
> > YOU DON'T HAVE A LOCAL DEBIAN MIRROR" with a relevant lan ip (e.g.
> > "10.11.12.13") in all the relevant rewrite rules.
> > That approach leaves your Debian mirror operative until you have
> > C-level 
> > approval to yank it down, or, you can leave it up for those crazy
> > bad downtime cases all the way up to "Lennart comes back as
> > Jesus." ;oD
> > 
> >   
> 
> Please notice that the original walkthrough document is always at:
> 
>   https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt
> 
> In theory, package mirrors (like ftp.fau.de, the one that you mention)
> should mirror that file automatically, but they are not requested to
> do so, so it's better to always refer to the version on
> pkgmaster.devuan.org. If you have suggestions for improvements to the
> walkthrough, you are welcome to propose them :)


..thanks.  _Should_ I really need ssh key access to rsync the 
"devuan" part of Devuan for my lan mirror?  
For public mirrors, I totally agree we need ssh key security, 
but for my lan mirrors?  

..for non-public lan mirrors I feel ssh key security should be
optional, so my lan mirrors keep working when my net link dies.


> Anyway, you still need a Debian mirror for all the packages that are
> not forked by Devuan (which are about 95% of all the 18+ packages
> in Jessie, Ascii, Ceres), so in practice you can't yank the Debian
> mirror down atm.

..correct, unless you're serving Debian clients or keeping an eye on 
systemd etc conspiracies, the easier approach would be starting with 
a Debian lan mirror and then "update" that debmirror-style to create
our own "merged" Devuan package mirror. 

..debmirror-style, debmirror should believe any "merged" lie we feed 
it, once we have those ssh key access issues on "devuan" sorted out.  

-- 
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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
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Re: [DNG] Beaglebone black

[karl]

KatolaZ
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 02:36:06PM -0400, Chillfan wrote:
> > I think the best way would be to see: https://git.devuan.org/sdk/arm-sdk/ 
> > and open an issue about it there.
> > 
> > I'm also opening a couple of issues about the beaglebone black there having 
> > noticed some problems.
> Please try to use the BTS at bugs.devuan.org (as well?). It's easier
> to keep track of all the bugs relevant to a release if they are in the
> BTS.

Thanks booth, I'll look into that.

///

 I solved my original issue by using:
https://debian.beagleboard.org/images/bone-debian-8.3-lxqt-4gb-armhf-2016-01-24-4gb.img.xz

and upgrade it to devuan. I wish to upload it so others might test it,
but 4GB is a little big so and scp says 43h so I have to use some
other method. This is the bootblocks
http://turkos.aspodata.se/computing/BBB/bbb.bb.img
and I'll put up the archived files in the same dir instead.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

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Sweden
+46 173 140 57


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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 01:32:01PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:

[cut]

> > Great. Let's do it then. It's a tiny change that costs nothing and
> > makes life a lot easier for many users. We could just package it and
> > include it among the deps of XFCE.
> 
> If it's not installed by default, you still have the buried shovel: The
> user who can't read the fonts can't install the package.
> 
> What do you all think of also connecting a pair of hotkeys to increase
> and decrease fonts via fontsnaps?
> 
>

I understand your former comment, but the latter seems
inconsequential: if you don't have the package installed by default,
the keybindingss won't work.

My suggestion was exactly to have the fontsnaps package included as a
dep in all the supported "task-*-desktop", so that it gets installed
automatically if the user install task-whatever-desktop.

Steve: would you like to help with that? 

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] ..no response on https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7 so I try here

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 03:43:25PM +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

[cut]

> 
> > merged# This is new devuan.org code,
> 
> ..this is "Debian's mirror MINUS systemd PLUS Devuan's code mirror",
> merger job is done with amprolla's you-don't-wanna-know server side
> magic.
> 
> > size?
> 
> ..today: 2.6TB, according to:
> https://www.debian.org/mirror/size
> 
> 
> ...or, if you like me have a partial Debian mirror on your lan with
> source, all, amd64, i386 and hurd-i386 and oldstable/jessie, stable,
> testing and sid, 413GB.
> 
> ..minus hurd-i386, I estimate "merged" to: 365GB and a complete 
> "devuan+merged" Devuan mirror to: qalc 413-48+13.81 = 379GB.
>


mmmhhh, if you use an external Debian mirror, the actual size of the
Devuan-specific stuff is only about 14GB atm. A full mirror with all,
amd64, and i386 is about 140GB per release, atm (so about 420GB if you
want jessie, ascii, and ceres. Will soon need to add another ~130GB
for Beowulf ;)).

[cut]

> 
> > ..I have a partial (source,amd64,i386,i386-hurd) lan Debian mirror 
> > (bad isp link) and I understand some packages are identical over 
> > here at Devuan, so I guess I can play mirror guineapig here. 
> 
> ..in my case, I'd add "5c) IF YOU HAVE A DEBIAN MIRROR BOX ON YOUR LAN"
> to ftp://ftp.fau.de/devuan/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt , swapping out
> all mentions of "deb.debian.org" in section "5b) IF YOU DON'T HAVE A 
> LOCAL DEBIAN MIRROR" with a relevant lan ip (e.g. "10.11.12.13") in all
> the relevant rewrite rules.
> That approach leaves your Debian mirror operative until you have
> C-level 
> approval to yank it down, or, you can leave it up for those crazy bad
> downtime cases all the way up to "Lennart comes back as Jesus." ;oD
> 
> 

Please notice that the original walkthrough document is always at:

  https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt

In theory, package mirrors (like ftp.fau.de, the one that you mention)
should mirror that file automatically, but they are not requested to
do so, so it's better to always refer to the version on
pkgmaster.devuan.org. If you have suggestions for improvements to the
walkthrough, you are welcome to propose them :)

Anyway, you still need a Debian mirror for all the packages that are
not forked by Devuan (which are about 95% of all the 18+ packages
in Jessie, Ascii, Ceres), so in practice you can't yank the Debian
mirror down atm.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:30:48 +
KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 06:23:25AM -0400, fsmithred wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > 
> > We already have two buttons on the desktop for enlarging and
> > reducing the font and icons, thanks to Joerg Reisenweber, but it's
> > only in the desktop-live, and it's only for xfce. I haven't looked
> > at it in a long time, but I think it's ready to be packaged.
> > https://git.devuan.org/fsmithred/fontsnaps
> > 
> >   
> 
> Great. Let's do it then. It's a tiny change that costs nothing and
> makes life a lot easier for many users. We could just package it and
> include it among the deps of XFCE.

If it's not installed by default, you still have the buried shovel: The
user who can't read the fonts can't install the package.

What do you all think of also connecting a pair of hotkeys to increase
and decrease fonts via fontsnaps?


 SteveT
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Re: [DNG] Used *and* free hardware

[Andrew McGlashan]

One thing about using used [,old] and free hardware is that it has power
efficiency problems.

Newer hardware tends to be more power efficient (if you choose wisely).
This means that newer hardware can "pay" for itself via energy savings
alone.  Less power consumed, less heat.  If you have an abundance of
excess "free" power, that you don't have a better use for, then perhaps
old hardware might be better than new hardware from an environmental
perspective.

A reasonably good example of new vs old is the incandescent light globe
against an LED.  You could wait until the old one blows or replace it
and start saving energy straight away.

We have reduce, re-use and recycle; these are all important but
sometimes replace is more important for all sorts of reasons.

Cheers
A.



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Re: [DNG] Xfce clock visibility with darkpurpy (was Re: Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.)

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 09:38:01PM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:

>   $ apt-cache show xfce4-datetime-plugin orage | grep ^Installed
>   Installed-Size: 261
>   Installed-Size: 5573

Anybody know what the units are?

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] ..no response on https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7 so I try here

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:32:15 -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote in message 
<37e1737b6270d5f488c88d006f55a...@dyne.org>:

> On 2018-03-12 09:43, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 02:56:13 +0100, Arnt wrote in message
> > <20151217025613.4656e...@nb6.lan>:
> >   
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> ..I got no response on
> >> https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7 so I try here: do
> >> you guys have " du -sch "-style numbers for alpha-iso-cd  # 28MB  
> > 
> >   
> 
> Of course you didn't. The email interactiveness was disabled maybe a 
> year ago and we have no way to alter or respond to posts there.  Did
> you not see the banner at the top of the page?

..nope, much easier to search my own mail list archive ;o), 
I responded because I found a viable answer to my first 
question on this mail list, posted over 2 years ago.

> PROCEED WITH CAUTION
> This experiment is over. These pages are offered as a read only 
> historical reference that may contain outdated documentation. Do 
> continue to browse but replying, likes, and other actions are
> disabled. For current discussions, please travel to the DNG mail
> list, the Devuan irc channels freenode#devuan and the dev1galaxy.org
> forum. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
> 
> The talk.d.o archive is still a WIP.
> 
> golinux

..good to know. :o)

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Xfce clock visibility with darkpurpy (was Re: Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.)

[golinux]

On 2018-03-12 07:38, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:

Hi,

goli...@dyne.org writes:



I never realized that Orage is a "full-blown" calendar app because I
have no need for one. I can live with a bit of useless bloat to solve 
a


  $ apt-cache show xfce4-datetime-plugin orage | grep ^Installed
  Installed-Size: 261
  Installed-Size: 5573

You call that "a bit of useless bloat"? ;-)



Everything is relative. ;) I have over 220gb of video projects and many 
gb of artwork on this 500gb partition (with another 500gb unformatted 
and unused and waiting) so yeah, 5573 isn't even a blip on the radar.


golinux

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-12 03:29, KatolaZ wrote:

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 10:59:34PM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote:

[cut]

Steve, I appreciate your comments but you are really late to this 
party.
The ASCII slim theme was finished in December and the layout and font 
sizing
are identical to the one in Jessie which is about a year ago. The slim 
panel
has also been posted to this list maybe a dozen times in the last 
year. So
the Jessie and ASCII ship have sailed.  I'll have a look at enlarging 
the
font when I start on Beowulf but there will be no fussy buttons (for 
both

technical and aesthetic reasons).



Sorry for interrupting. I am the least "graphically-sensible" here,
but I guess we should try to make the default Devuan desktop as
accessible as possible to visually-impaired users. I have no clue
about how system fonts are managed in XFCE, but it shouldn't be
impossible to have two icons in the default desktop to set the font to
+4 and +8 points. Something we should definitely plan around for
Beowulf, indeed.

My2Cents

KatolaZ




The login screen has been in that identical configuration for well over 
a year (maybe 2) and there has not been one complaint about readability 
(that has not been addressed). So this is a solution in search of a 
problem.  The slim panel is an image not text so there can be no buttons 
to increase font size. I can however increase the font size on the image 
itself.


golinux
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-12 03:13, Edward Bartolo wrote:

On 12/03/2018, goli...@dyne.org  wrote:

On 2018-03-11 14:08, Edward Bartolo wrote:
[snip]

Edward, I'm happy to hear that you've found something that suits you.
But now I'm wondering what you were previously seeing.

This is the Jessie (purpy) default login screen:
https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_jessie.png

And this is the ASCII (darkpurpy) default login screen.
https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_ascii.png



Neither of the two files, slim_jessie.png and slim_ascii.png, are
identical to what I had as background for slim.


I have no way of knowing whether you're on Jessie or ASCII


I am on ASCII which has been installed and functioning for several
months. Excuse me for my leaky memory but I do not remember exactly
when I had it installed or distupgraded. If my wetware serves me
right, my path of installation was, first an installation of Debian,
then a conversion to Devuan. For some reason, both debootstrap and the
Devuan installer did not work, so I had to resort to install Debian
first.

I am attaching a screenshot that I scaled down by 25% to save space on
the servers. It is clear something is not not well understood with my
setup.




That background is the default slim "blood and guts" (as we call it) 
background.  I had nothing to do with it. If you have desktop-base 
installed you will have a uniform darkpurpy theme from grub to slim to 
the desktop in Xfce.  Sorry I was a bit slow to realize you were not 
seeing the Devuan specific theming.


golinux





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Re: [DNG] ..no response on https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7 so I try here

[golinux]

On 2018-03-12 09:43, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 02:56:13 +0100, Arnt wrote in message
<20151217025613.4656e...@nb6.lan>:


Hi,

..I got no response on https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7
so I try here: do you guys have " du -sch "-style numbers for
alpha-iso-cd  # 28MB





Of course you didn't. The email interactiveness was disabled maybe a 
year ago and we have no way to alter or respond to posts there.  Did you 
not see the banner at the top of the page?


PROCEED WITH CAUTION
This experiment is over. These pages are offered as a read only 
historical reference that may contain outdated documentation. Do 
continue to browse but replying, likes, and other actions are disabled. 
For current discussions, please travel to the DNG mail list, the Devuan 
irc channels freenode#devuan and the dev1galaxy.org forum. So long, and 
thanks for all the fish!


The talk.d.o archive is still a WIP.

golinux






















..today: 39.58GB, according to:

https://ftp.fau.de/cgi-bin/show-mirror-status.cgi?mirror=devuan-cd


devuan# This is Debian minus Systemd?


..this is Devuan's code mirror.


 Size?


..today: 13.81GB, according to:
https://ftp.fau.de/cgi-bin/show-mirror-status.cgi?mirror=devuan


merged# This is new devuan.org code,


..this is "Debian's mirror MINUS systemd PLUS Devuan's code mirror",
merger job is done with amprolla's you-don't-wanna-know server side
magic.


size?


..today: 2.6TB, according to:
https://www.debian.org/mirror/size


...or, if you like me have a partial Debian mirror on your lan with
source, all, amd64, i386 and hurd-i386 and oldstable/jessie, stable,
testing and sid, 413GB.

..minus hurd-i386, I estimate "merged" to: 365GB and a complete
"devuan+merged" Devuan mirror to: qalc 413-48+13.81 = 379GB.



in http://packages.devuan.org/ ?


..https://ftp.fau.de/cgi-bin/show-mirror-status.cgi?mirror=devuan-cd
https://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt misled me into mirroring
files.devuan.org/ rather than auto.mirror|packages.devuan.org/devuan,
it turned out "Devuan Mirror != Devuan Mirror." ;o)

..proper way to mirror Devuan mirrors:
ftp://ftp.fau.de/devuan/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt



..I have a partial (source,amd64,i386,i386-hurd) lan Debian mirror
(bad isp link) and I understand some packages are identical over
here at Devuan, so I guess I can play mirror guineapig here.


..in my case, I'd add "5c) IF YOU HAVE A DEBIAN MIRROR BOX ON YOUR LAN"
to ftp://ftp.fau.de/devuan/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt , swapping out
all mentions of "deb.debian.org" in section "5b) IF YOU DON'T HAVE A
LOCAL DEBIAN MIRROR" with a relevant lan ip (e.g. "10.11.12.13") in all
the relevant rewrite rules.
That approach leaves your Debian mirror operative until you have
C-level
approval to yank it down, or, you can leave it up for those crazy bad
downtime cases all the way up to "Lennart comes back as Jesus." ;oD

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Re: [DNG] ..no response on https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7 so I try here

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 02:56:13 +0100, Arnt wrote in message 
<20151217025613.4656e...@nb6.lan>:

> Hi,
> 
> ..I got no response on https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7
> so I try here: do you guys have " du -sch "-style numbers for
> alpha-iso-cd  # 28MB

..today: 39.58GB, according to: 
https://ftp.fau.de/cgi-bin/show-mirror-status.cgi?mirror=devuan-cd

> devuan# This is Debian minus Systemd?

..this is Devuan's code mirror.

>  Size? 

..today: 13.81GB, according to: 
https://ftp.fau.de/cgi-bin/show-mirror-status.cgi?mirror=devuan

> merged# This is new devuan.org code,

..this is "Debian's mirror MINUS systemd PLUS Devuan's code mirror",
merger job is done with amprolla's you-don't-wanna-know server side
magic.

> size?

..today: 2.6TB, according to:
https://www.debian.org/mirror/size


...or, if you like me have a partial Debian mirror on your lan with
source, all, amd64, i386 and hurd-i386 and oldstable/jessie, stable,
testing and sid, 413GB.

..minus hurd-i386, I estimate "merged" to: 365GB and a complete 
"devuan+merged" Devuan mirror to: qalc 413-48+13.81 = 379GB.


> in http://packages.devuan.org/ ?

..https://ftp.fau.de/cgi-bin/show-mirror-status.cgi?mirror=devuan-cd
https://files.devuan.org/MIRRORS.txt misled me into mirroring
files.devuan.org/ rather than auto.mirror|packages.devuan.org/devuan,
it turned out "Devuan Mirror != Devuan Mirror." ;o)

..proper way to mirror Devuan mirrors:
ftp://ftp.fau.de/devuan/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt


> ..I have a partial (source,amd64,i386,i386-hurd) lan Debian mirror 
> (bad isp link) and I understand some packages are identical over 
> here at Devuan, so I guess I can play mirror guineapig here. 

..in my case, I'd add "5c) IF YOU HAVE A DEBIAN MIRROR BOX ON YOUR LAN"
to ftp://ftp.fau.de/devuan/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt , swapping out
all mentions of "deb.debian.org" in section "5b) IF YOU DON'T HAVE A 
LOCAL DEBIAN MIRROR" with a relevant lan ip (e.g. "10.11.12.13") in all
the relevant rewrite rules.  
That approach leaves your Debian mirror operative until you have
C-level 
approval to yank it down, or, you can leave it up for those crazy bad
downtime cases all the way up to "Lennart comes back as Jesus." ;oD



-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Used *and* free hardware (was: Re: The FSF seems to have finally sold out)

[Luciano Mannucci]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:46:13 +
KatolaZ  wrote:

> the main issue is that we basically have no PPC build hosts
> available. If we had (and if there is a bunch of users interested in
> testing that stuff out), we could definitely provide PPC support.
Hmm, I guess that a couple of virtual machines under KVM/Qemu on an 
IBM S802L Power8 are'nt enough... (I could provide them :)
I have an old G4 MacBook that I should check to see if it is still
working...
Of course we will need testers.

Luciano.
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Re: [DNG] Xfce clock visibility with darkpurpy (was Re: Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.)

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi,

goli...@dyne.org writes:

> On 2018-03-11 07:43, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> goli...@dyne.org writes:
>>
>>> On 2018-03-11 00:29, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
 Hi again,
 [...]
 Apart from getting the clock in the Xfce systemtray to display in a
 colour that contrasts with the darkpurpy theme rather than the dark
 shade of grey that is used now.
>>>
>>> Remove the default clock from the panel and install the Orage clock
>>> from
>>> the repos instead.  It has nice config options that allow for
>>> foreground
>>> and background color choice.  As far as making that the default option
>>> .
>>> . . let me talk to Centurion_Dan about that.  It's not really a
>>> priority
>>> in the grand scheme of things but the suggestion could at least be
>>> included in some release notes for the final release.
>>
>> All I want/need is the time to display in the system tray so I don't
>> have to go find a wall clock. Why would I need a full-blown calendar
>> application to do so?
>>
>
> I never realized that Orage is a "full-blown" calendar app because I
> have no need for one. I can live with a bit of useless bloat to solve a

  $ apt-cache show xfce4-datetime-plugin orage | grep ^Installed
  Installed-Size: 261
  Installed-Size: 5573

You call that "a bit of useless bloat"? ;-)

# Me once again makes a mental note to purge unused packages ... but at
# the same time wonders when I actually get around to doing so ...

> cosmetic problem but the choice is of course yours. That's what it's is
> all about . . . "Software freedom your way".  Everyone has different
> preferences and ways to solve them. Diversity is a good thing.  :)

ACK,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
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Re: [DNG] Wicd + dhclient no longer sends the correct host name and doesn't request search domains anymore in ascii.

[Florian Zieboll]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:03:50 +0100
Arnt Karlsen  wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:17:05 +, Rowland wrote in message 
> <20180312101705.7dca7...@devstation.samdom.example.com>:
> 
> > Hi Didier, all of what you say is true, but if there is a wicd
> > package, then it needs to work as expected.  
> 
> ...and if it doesn't, a nice big warning should wake up the user 
> and recommend a viable work-around.


Is apt-listbugs part of the default installation? In this case this
could be easily accomplished with a bug report with severity >serious
that includes the work-around.

libre Grüße,

Florian


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Re: [DNG] Xfce clock visibility with darkpurpy (was Re: Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.)

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi,

KatolaZ writes:

> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 09:43:40PM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
>>
>> I do my agenda and task scheduling with Org-mode so have no real need
>> for Orage.  The only reason I still have it installed is because I've
>> been too lazy to get serious about APT::Install-Recommends=false and
>> ditch the task-xfce-desktop and xfce4 meta-packages :-P
>>
>
> Man, if you are using org-mode, why on Earth do you need to leave your
> eyes from emacs just to look at the clock?!?!? o_O
>
> :D

Because I don't live all of my hacking hours in Emacs ;-P

>> # Guess I should tell emacs to display the time in its mode line ;-)
>
> E...you mean you don't have it enabled? o_O

There's only so much that fits ...

> 
> (setq display-time-day-and-date t
>   display-time-24hr-format nil)
> (setq display-time-default-load-average nil)
> (display-time)
> 

Thanks.  Also for the dzen2 suggestion.

Florian's suggestion would work nice in a terminal too, but having a
clock in the terminal, as well as the emacs mode-line and somewhere on
the screen feels like overkill.  Just a single clock in a fixed location
that's visible no matter what application you happen to be using, that's
what I want.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback.
--
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Re: [DNG] Wicd + dhclient no longer sends the correct host name and doesn't request search domains anymore in ascii.

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 01:03:50PM +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:17:05 +, Rowland wrote in message 
> <20180312101705.7dca7...@devstation.samdom.example.com>:
> 
> > Hi Didier, all of what you say is true, but if there is a wicd
> > package, then it needs to work as expected.
> 
> ...and if it doesn't, a nice big warning should wake up the user 
> and recommend a viable work-around.
> 

OK, message got, we inherited a bug from Debian stretch, we are sorry
for that, but having a Beta of ASCII was intended to identify and
solve such glitches :)

Would you please mind testing the wicd package available in
ascii-proposed, and report any regression and any success, so that we
can include it in the forthcoming ASCII RC?

Thanks

KatolaZ

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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] Xfce clock visibility with darkpurpy (was Re: Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.)

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi,

goli...@dyne.org writes:

> On 2018-03-11 07:43, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> goli...@dyne.org writes:
>>
>>> On 2018-03-11 00:29, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
 Hi again,
 [...]
 Apart from getting the clock in the Xfce systemtray to display in a
 colour that contrasts with the darkpurpy theme rather than the dark
 shade of grey that is used now.
>>>
>>> Remove the default clock from the panel and install the Orage clock
>>> from
>>> the repos instead.  It has nice config options that allow for
>>> foreground
>>> and background color choice.  As far as making that the default option
>>> .
>>> . . let me talk to Centurion_Dan about that.  It's not really a
>>> priority
>>> in the grand scheme of things but the suggestion could at least be
>>> included in some release notes for the final release.
>>
>
> I was a little slow to realize something . . . the default Xfce panel
> background color is #EDECEB (off-white) so the darker font color works
> on that.  The problem only arises when the user has chosen a darker
> color for the panel background (which I do). So it will be up to the
> user to sort this out.  I might post something on the forum about this.
>
> Apologies for the confusion.

This made me realize something.  I've set my panels to be transparent so
the clock displays "directly" on the background ... doh!

Guess my issue is of my own making but on purpy things were clearly
visible.  On darkpurpy you can see it only if you know where to look and
look real hard.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback,
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Re: [DNG] Wicd + dhclient no longer sends the correct host name and doesn't request search domains anymore in ascii.

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:17:05 +, Rowland wrote in message 
<20180312101705.7dca7...@devstation.samdom.example.com>:

> Hi Didier, all of what you say is true, but if there is a wicd
> package, then it needs to work as expected.

...and if it doesn't, a nice big warning should wake up the user 
and recommend a viable work-around.

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Re: [DNG] Used *and* free hardware

[Didier Kryn]

Le 12/03/2018 à 12:34, Luciano Mannucci a écrit :

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:07:57 +0100
Martin Steigerwald  wrote:


I do follow the Linux PPC laptop project¹, and it would probably be wise to
give some money to them. But they also currently use a closed hardware design.

[1] https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/

Are there plans to port Devuan to PPC? It souldn't be too difficult:
there is a Debian and an Ubuntu for PPC...

    Unfortunately the situation of Debian for Powerpc isn't very clear. 
There is a split between 32-bit, 64-bit, little-endian and big-endian, 
plus the powerpcspe architecture from Freescale, and I think most of 
these arches, if not all, are not longer official Debian arches, but 
have only the status of "ports". AFAIK, IBM only supports Linux for the 
most recent 64 bit arch.


        Didier

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Re: [DNG] Used *and* free hardware (was: Re: The FSF seems to have finally sold out)

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 12:34:19PM +0100, Luciano Mannucci wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:07:57 +0100
> Martin Steigerwald  wrote:
> 
> > I do follow the Linux PPC laptop project¹, and it would probably be wise to 
> > give some money to them. But they also currently use a closed hardware 
> > design.
> > 
> > [1] https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/
> 
> Are there plans to port Devuan to PPC? It souldn't be too difficult:
> there is a Debian and an Ubuntu for PPC...
> 

Hi Luciano,

the main issue is that we basically have no PPC build hosts
available. If we had (and if there is a bunch of users interested in
testing that stuff out), we could definitely provide PPC support.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Used *and* free hardware (was: Re: The FSF seems to have finally sold out)

[Luciano Mannucci]

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:07:57 +0100
Martin Steigerwald  wrote:

> I do follow the Linux PPC laptop project¹, and it would probably be wise to 
> give some money to them. But they also currently use a closed hardware design.
> 
> [1] https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/

Are there plans to port Devuan to PPC? It souldn't be too difficult:
there is a Debian and an Ubuntu for PPC...

Luciano.
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Re: [DNG] rq: show me your power

[Adam Borowski]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 03:02:38AM +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 00:59:21 +0100, Adam wrote in message 
> <20180311235921.aq6uclmmsx2ip...@angband.pl>:
> 
> > Hi!
> > If you have a machine with a non-boring power connection (USB, etc)
> > or an UPS that's recognized by the kernel (rather than just nut),
> > please ls /sys/class/power_supply/ -- if you see anything other than
> > "ac" or "battery" there, please send me that data.
> 
> ..I have one laptop with "AC0", one with "AC", both with "BAT0". 
> Both my Raspberry Pis have empty /sys/class/power_supply link 
> trees, 3 pipe mails mailed in case you can use them. 

That's the common case, that's handled well by any tool I looked at:
* laptops with exactly one AC and exactly one battery
* desktops/servers/boards with no power sensors of any kind

Systemd knows about multiple AC/multiple batteries, current powermgmt-base
also about old style not yet converted drivers (Powerbooks, ancient i386);
what I'm interested in are more exotic new style cases.

> > grep . /sys/class/power_supply/*/* | mail -s power kilob...@angband.pl

Your local MTA is not capable of delivering outgoing mail (that's the
default unless configured); unless you have some other purpose, don't bother
fixing this for my sake (your machines are already handled well).

Thanks for looking!


Meow.
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 06:23:25AM -0400, fsmithred wrote:

[cut]

> 
> We already have two buttons on the desktop for enlarging and reducing the
> font and icons, thanks to Joerg Reisenweber, but it's only in the
> desktop-live, and it's only for xfce. I haven't looked at it in a long
> time, but I think it's ready to be packaged.
> https://git.devuan.org/fsmithred/fontsnaps
> 
> 

Great. Let's do it then. It's a tiny change that costs nothing and
makes life a lot easier for many users. We could just package it and
include it among the deps of XFCE.

Anybody willing to add support for KDE, LXQT, LXDE, MATE, etc in the
same package? This is a concrete way to help Devuan.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Wicd + dhclient no longer sends the correct host name and doesn't request search domains anymore in ascii.

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 10:17:05AM +, Rowland Penny wrote:

[cut]

> 
> Hi Didier, all of what you say is true, but if there is a wicd package,
> then it needs to work as expected.
> 
> As for anybody using wicd on Devuan and having slight problems, just
> feel glad you are not using Ubintu 18.04. This has something called
> 'systemd.resolved', which, for some unknown reason, puts yet another
> layer in the resolv stack and refuses to let you change
>  /etc/resolv.conf
> 

Dear Rowland,

please try the wicd package available in ascii-proposed. It should
work OOTB. The only change is a hard dep on net-tools, which should
solve your issue.

Please report any problem.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[fsmithred]

On 03/12/2018 04:29 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 10:59:34PM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
>> Steve, I appreciate your comments but you are really late to this party.
>> The ASCII slim theme was finished in December and the layout and font sizing
>> are identical to the one in Jessie which is about a year ago. The slim panel
>> has also been posted to this list maybe a dozen times in the last year. So
>> the Jessie and ASCII ship have sailed.  I'll have a look at enlarging the
>> font when I start on Beowulf but there will be no fussy buttons (for both
>> technical and aesthetic reasons).
>>
> 
> Sorry for interrupting. I am the least "graphically-sensible" here,
> but I guess we should try to make the default Devuan desktop as
> accessible as possible to visually-impaired users. I have no clue
> about how system fonts are managed in XFCE, but it shouldn't be
> impossible to have two icons in the default desktop to set the font to
> +4 and +8 points. Something we should definitely plan around for
> Beowulf, indeed.
> 

We already have two buttons on the desktop for enlarging and reducing the
font and icons, thanks to Joerg Reisenweber, but it's only in the
desktop-live, and it's only for xfce. I haven't looked at it in a long
time, but I think it's ready to be packaged.
https://git.devuan.org/fsmithred/fontsnaps


fsmithred

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Re: [DNG] Wicd + dhclient no longer sends the correct host name and doesn't request search domains anymore in ascii.

[Rowland Penny]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:41:09 +0100
Didier Kryn  wrote:

>      This is just to remind everyone that wicd isn't necessary - at 
> least if it doesn't provide anything more than wifi config.
> 
>      I've been living without it - and without network-manager - for 
> many years. All I need is wpa_spplicant and wpa_gui.
> 
>      Put the following line in wpa_supplicant.conf:
> 
> ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=dialout
> update_config=1
> 
>      Then make yourself a member of group dialout
> 
>      Put the following in your /etc/network/interfaces - I know it's 
> deprecated, but it just works.
> 
> allow-hotplug wlan0
> auto wlan0
> iface wlan0 inet manual
>      wpa-roam /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
> 
> iface default inet dhcp
> 
>      Now everytime you want to connect to a new wifi station, open 
> wpa_gui; it's intuitive. If you want wpa_supplicant to remember that 
> station, then save the config.
> 
>      If you have both Ethernet and wifi, then you also need ifplugd.
> I know it's potterware, but it works and is still not infected by the
> disease.
> 
>      Done.
> 
>                  Didier

Hi Didier, all of what you say is true, but if there is a wicd package,
then it needs to work as expected.

As for anybody using wicd on Devuan and having slight problems, just
feel glad you are not using Ubintu 18.04. This has something called
'systemd.resolved', which, for some unknown reason, puts yet another
layer in the resolv stack and refuses to let you change
 /etc/resolv.conf

Rowland
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Re: [DNG] Wicd + dhclient no longer sends the correct host name and doesn't request search domains anymore in ascii.

[Didier Kryn]

    This is just to remind everyone that wicd isn't necessary - at 
least if it doesn't provide anything more than wifi config.


    I've been living without it - and without network-manager - for 
many years. All I need is wpa_spplicant and wpa_gui.


    Put the following line in wpa_supplicant.conf:

ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=dialout
update_config=1

    Then make yourself a member of group dialout

    Put the following in your /etc/network/interfaces - I know it's 
deprecated, but it just works.


allow-hotplug wlan0
auto wlan0
iface wlan0 inet manual
    wpa-roam /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf

iface default inet dhcp

    Now everytime you want to connect to a new wifi station, open 
wpa_gui; it's intuitive. If you want wpa_supplicant to remember that 
station, then save the config.


    If you have both Ethernet and wifi, then you also need ifplugd. I 
know it's potterware, but it works and is still not infected by the disease.


    Done.

                Didier

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 10:59:34PM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote:

[cut]

> Steve, I appreciate your comments but you are really late to this party.
> The ASCII slim theme was finished in December and the layout and font sizing
> are identical to the one in Jessie which is about a year ago. The slim panel
> has also been posted to this list maybe a dozen times in the last year. So
> the Jessie and ASCII ship have sailed.  I'll have a look at enlarging the
> font when I start on Beowulf but there will be no fussy buttons (for both
> technical and aesthetic reasons).
> 

Sorry for interrupting. I am the least "graphically-sensible" here,
but I guess we should try to make the default Devuan desktop as
accessible as possible to visually-impaired users. I have no clue
about how system fonts are managed in XFCE, but it shouldn't be
impossible to have two icons in the default desktop to set the font to
+4 and +8 points. Something we should definitely plan around for
Beowulf, indeed.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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[DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Edward Bartolo]

On 12/03/2018, goli...@dyne.org  wrote:
> On 2018-03-11 14:08, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> [snip]
>
> Edward, I'm happy to hear that you've found something that suits you.
> But now I'm wondering what you were previously seeing.
>
> This is the Jessie (purpy) default login screen:
> https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_jessie.png
>
> And this is the ASCII (darkpurpy) default login screen.
> https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_ascii.png
>

Neither of the two files, slim_jessie.png and slim_ascii.png, are
identical to what I had as background for slim.

> I have no way of knowing whether you're on Jessie or ASCII

I am on ASCII which has been installed and functioning for several
months. Excuse me for my leaky memory but I do not remember exactly
when I had it installed or distupgraded. If my wetware serves me
right, my path of installation was, first an installation of Debian,
then a conversion to Devuan. For some reason, both debootstrap and the
Devuan installer did not work, so I had to resort to install Debian
first.

I am attaching a screenshot that I scaled down by 25% to save space on
the servers. It is clear something is not not well understood with my
setup.
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