from:"LEnglish5"

The irony is that, from a Chinese perspective, TM is a form of qi-qong. It's 
pretty much the generic term for mental spiritual practice, aka meditation 
in English. Of course, it also includes practices that involve movement, 
breathing exercises,etc. 

 L
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/6/2014 10:11 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
  my spiritual practice at this time consist of encouraging folks who 
  are doing TM and TMSP to immediately cease and desist and stop raght naow!
 
 So, you've quit the China chi-chong practice? Go figure.
 
 ---
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis

You should read up on Boltzmann's Brains. It is an extreme example of how an 
infinite (not just our 18 billion lightyear wide local bubble) could give rise 
spontaneously [randomly] to brains in space that have memories of a universe 
just like ours and think that they're IN such a universe for the brief 
instant that they exist before expiring or otherwise going away (Random Quantum 
Fluctuations giveth and Random Quantum Fluctuations taketh away). 

 Boltzmann claimed that random fluctuations were more likely to create s single 
such self-deluded brain than they were to create an entire universe such as 
ours.
 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 Again, I offer this ACTUAL SCIENCE as an approach to discovering the genesis 
of orderliness.  

It does not seem to be true that randomness and entropy are the Sword of 
Damocles they are made out to be.  It seems the core dynamic of creation is 
DIRECTLY OPPOSITE of that -- it seems that there's a positively measurable 
NATURAL FORCE that orders creation at AN ASTOUNDINGLY SUBTLE LEVEL.

Edg
 
  


Water, Energy, and Life: Fresh Views From the Water's Edge 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedamp;v=XVBEwn6iWOo 
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedamp;v=XVBEwn6iWOo
 
 Water, Energy, and Life: Fresh Views From the Water'... 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedamp;v=XVBEwn6iWOo Dr. 
Gerald Pollack, UW professor of bioengineering, has developed a theory of water 
that has been called revolutionary. The researcher has spent the past dec...


 
 View on www.youtube.com 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedamp;v=XVBEwn6iWOo 
 Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking Repentance Spiritually

David Lynch and Bob Roth, brainwashers extraordinaire... 

 OhKy...
 

 

 Now for the rest, you DO realize that the Chinese government frowns on certain 
groups that incorporate qigong and has outlawed several groups because they are 
a threat to the state?
 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhong_Gong 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhong_Gong
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falon_Gong 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falon_Gong

 

 

 

 MUM, on the other hand, has formal academic relations with universities in 
China, including student exchange agreements, including Beijing Union 
University.
 

  http://www.mum.edu/default.aspx?RelID=651046issearch=chinese 
http://www.mum.edu/default.aspx?RelID=651046issearch=chinese

  

 

 http://english.buu.edu.cn/col/col13109/index.html 
http://english.buu.edu.cn/col/col13109/index.html

 

 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 First of all and I say these things with respect to you Lawson because 
although you and I have traded words and ideas ever since the Cardio Brief 
event, I sense that you are not a complete ass like WillyTex and that you are 
seeking some good thing in life. I don't know if you were kidding around when 
you said in another post that you were OCD but if so I sympathize if you are.
 
 To begin with, Richard is an idiot who is either a person who gets off on 
trying to upset folks through deliberately acting like he misunderstands what 
they are saying or he has serious information processing issues. I have not 
stopped chi gung. 
 
 And the idea that to Chinese people TM is a form of chi gung is nonsense 
unless the Chinese people are fanatic TM'ers who have been brainwashed by the 
likes of David Lynch or Bob Roth.
 
 On Tue, 5/6/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... 
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking 
Repentance Spiritually
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 11:36 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 The irony is that, from a Chinese perspective, TM
 is a form of qi-qong. It's pretty much the generic term
 for mental spiritual practice, aka
 meditation in English. Of course, it also
 includes practices that involve movement, breathing
 exercises,etc.
 L
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 punditster@... wrote :
 
 On
 5/6/2014 10:11 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
  my
 spiritual practice at this time consist of encouraging folks
 who 
 
  are doing TM and TMSP to immediately cease and desist
 and stop raght naow!
 
 
 
 So, you've quit the China chi-chong
 practice? Go figure.
 
 
 
 ---
 
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 Antivirus protection is active.
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking Repentance Spiritually

 or not unless they 
deliberately have the blood pressure checked.
 

 

 THEREFORE, it is irrelevant if people can no longer tell that TM has had a 
good effect or not, because in at least one situation, TM has extremely 
beneficial effects that aren't detectable without using equipment. The only way 
to tell if TM has effects on BP is by monitoring your blood pressure using 
accurate equipment. So that 90% who stop doing TM because the benefits fade 
may be correct or they many not be. There is literally no way to tell without 
checking.
 

 L

 
 

 

 



 

 On Tue, 5/6/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... 
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:

 What is frightening is that, as far as I can tell, you are serious through and 
through.
 
 You DO realize that you are setting yourself up for disappointment every bit 
as severe as occurred when you realized that Maharishi wasn't absolutely 
perfect, if it should turn out that TM is of value above and beyond other 
meditation practices, at least for some people?
 
 How will you handle things at that point?
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :
 
 I do wonder how you come up with such things. How do you think TM will turn 
out to be of value above all other meditations? My personal experience shows me 
it is not and would have done so years earlier had I not given in to the 
brainwashing the TMO does on TM'ers. All one has to do is use logical critical 
thinking skills to one's TM experience and one see's that stripped of all the 
hype and don't pay attention to anything that appears to not corroborate the bs 
we the TMO tell you its easy to see TM is a mediocre meditation at best and in 
truth is a Hindu devotional practice. I didn't sign up to worship Hindu 
goddesses. And as I am not OCD, I entertain no fears of any kind about TM being 
found to be anything other than the mildly effective practice and big fat scam 
that it is.
 
 And I remind you that probably only about 10% of all TM initiates continue TM 
beyond one year, and of those many later quit since it effectiveness seems to 
fade over a relatively short time for most people. 
 
 On Tue, 5/6/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... 
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking 
Repentance Spiritually
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 11:26 PM

 
 What is frightening is that, as far as I can tell,
 you are serious through and through.
 You DO realize that you are setting
 yourself up for disappointment every bit as severe as
 occurred when you realized that Maharishi wasn't
 absolutely perfect, if it should turn out that TM is of
 value above and beyond other meditation practices, at least
 for some people?
 How
 will you handle things at that point?
 L
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@... wrote :
 
 Thanks pal, my
 spiritual practice at this time consist of encouraging folks
 who are doing TM and TMSP to immediately cease and desist
 and stop raght naow! Also I encourage those who are thinking
 of starting TM not to, and encouraging those who are
 thinking of going to MUM to also not to. 
 
 
 
 So far I have gotten one prospective MUM student to change
 his mind, and one meditator who had been regular for more
 than 40 years to cease and desist - he now does Christian
 prayer each morning and evening instead of that old Hindu
 devotional practice that people claim is the secular
 practice of TM. So not so much volume yet, but each
 experience is a mighty triumph and feels so so good. 
 
 
 
 So thanks for the idea but I am very fine. You should stop
 doing TMSP and just hang out on the farm in nature more and
 join me in getting people to quit TM and TMSP - its a mighty
 fine spiritual practice! I am also making plans as to how I
 am gonna torpedo any TM'ers stupid enough to attempt to
 get that Hindu devotional practice started in any schools in
 South Carolina. Y Haa!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Banksters practice meditation

2014-05-05 Thread LEnglish5

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/the-one-weird-practice-wall-street-bankers-swear-by-175231201.html
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/the-one-weird-practice-wall-street-bankers-swear-by-175231201.html
 

 No doubt there are more mindfulness courses than TM courses, but quantity 
isn't quality.
 

 L

[FairfieldLife] Today: American Heart Association doctor lecture online streaming

2014-05-05 Thread LEnglish5

http://www.globalgoodnews.com/health-news-a.html?art=139931661164188763 
http://www.globalgoodnews.com/health-news-a.html?art=139931661164188763

[FairfieldLife] Re: Today: American Heart Association doctor lecture online streaming

2014-05-05 Thread LEnglish5

It was interesting to watch the presentation. 

 Several things I took away from it:
 

 1) long-term exposure to air pollution is more dangerous than you might think, 
especially in places like India and China.
 

 2) There's  an acceptance amongst at least some TM researchers that 
head-to-head studies of TM vs mindfulness are going to happen. The question is 
really: who will pay for them and who will be willing to participate on the 
non-TM side?
 

 3) Robert Brook, from the American Heart Association, has no qualms with 
taking esriously the finding that TM reduced all-cause mortality by 48%. He 
commented that he had never seen research findings l iike that before.
 

 4) Brook himself is planning on collaborating in TM research, redoing a study 
done in China on how moment-by-moment changes in air pollution effects  
hypertension to see how the results might change when half of the subjects are 
doing TM. The prediction, as I understand it, is not only would TM practice 
reduce overall blood pressure, but that the reactivity to environmental stress 
might be changed in a beneficial way as well, so that the average would be 
lower, and the spike due the response to air pollution exposure might be lower 
as well. The measurements would be of the ambulatory BP type where blood 
pressure is monitored continuously and automatically, rather than in a clinical 
setting.
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

 http://www.globalgoodnews.com/health-news-a.html?art=139931661164188763 
http://www.globalgoodnews.com/health-news-a.html?art=139931661164188763

[FairfieldLife] Re: American Buddhists celebrate no self

2014-05-04 Thread LEnglish5

that happen in your life, or because of
things that happened previously, in different ways. The immediacy of experience
that mindfulness gives you can help you live more spontaneously by freeing you
from negative reaction patterns you may have picked up. It can also target
things that bother you rather than let you sit around hoping that some stress
is going to be released at some point in the future and you'll suddenly be able
to cope better with problems.

This approach can be of enormous value and it's something that EEG research
isn't going to be able to help you with. You are way too fixated on this stuff
Lawson.

Did you read the Stanford research paper MJ posted about how they tested TM
claims about stress release and anxiety reduction and found the TMO was
exaggerating, mistaken or lying about the long term effects? We all know many
people that don't fit the TM model of perfect functioning and would
undoubtably all know many more if a large majority didn't quit the practise in
the first few months, regardless of what their EEGs might be telling us.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

Former TMers enjoy claiming that TM has the same effects as all other
practices, but anyone who looks at the EEG signature of various practices
instantly realizes that such people are either speaking from ignorance (willful
or otherwise) or deliberately lying.

Here's a discussion of no-self and American Buddhism in the context of a
course on Buddhist philosophy and how it fits in with the research on Buddhist
meditation (mindfulness, though focussed attention practices such as Benson's
Relaxation Response, Samatha and Metta, all have teh same overall effect):

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/americanbuddhist/2014/05/buddhism-and-modern-psychology-week-five-looking-at-meditation.html

Now that we’ve seen it suggested that the modular theory of the mind
dovetails with the Buddhist theory of not-self, we look at how meditation might
fit in to our picture.
The first way this is discussed comes by looking at the Default Mode Network,
which is the part of the brain that is active when our mind isn’t focused on
anything. Brain scans have shown that meditation quiets this network.
The activation of the Default Mode Network (DMN) becomes greater during TM.
Coincidentally, activation of teh DMN is associated with sense of self, so
the fact practice of meditation techniques that quiet the DMN also quiet sense
of self is, well, a no-brainer. Likewise, the fact that TM, a mind-wandering
practice, enhances teh activity of the DMN (including strengthening the
activity of the brain associated with sense of self) is a no surprising,
either.

People who insist that all meditation practices eventually lead to the same
place are fooling themselves. Mindfulness and concentrative practices, in the
long run, distort the functioning of the Default Mode Network. Maharishi called
this subtle damage to the nervous system. TM enhances the normal restful
functioning of the brain, aka the Default Mode Network, which becomes active
whenever the mind is allowed to wander.

There's no reconciling the two approaches to spirituality.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Harris is a practicing transcending MEDITATOR afterall

Who says I always end up thinking the mantra a second time? 

 Sometimes I realize that 20 minutes have gone by lost in thought, and that's 
the end of my meditation.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/2/2014 11:33 PM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:

 Who says I maintain attention on the mantra?
 
 When you sit down to meditate, you consciously begin the mantra; when you 
realize that you're not thinking the mantra, you begin it again. So, there must 
be some maintenance going on, otherwise you would not remember to think the 
mantra again.
 

 Remembering to maintain attention attention on a thought is NOT effortlessly 
thinking a thought.
 
 Remembering to think the mantra is just like any other thought you remember. 
So, remembering to think the mantra is not 100% effortless. It takes some 
effort, no matter how slight, to think a specific thought. But, I agree that 
the TM teaching modality of effortlessness is better than concentrating on a 
mantra or breathing.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote :
 
 On 5/2/2014 2:01 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:

 I disagree that TM is mindfullness, and I disagree because of Marshy's intent 
and belief. 
 Mindfulness is the practice of awareness, a factor on the path to 
enlightenment. Mindfulness practice is inherited from the Buddhist tradition. 
Buddhism makes use of mantras, so by your logic mindfullness is not meditation? 
Go figure.
 
 This sounds almost exactly like TM:
 
 When practicing mindfulness, for instance by watching the breath, one must 
remember to maintain attention on the chosen object of awareness, faithfully 
returning back to refocus on that object whenever the mind wanders away from 
it. - B. Allen Wallace
 
 http://www.mindandlife.org/dialogues/past-conferences/ml18/ 
http://www.mindandlife.org/dialogues/past-conferences/ml18/

 
 

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Harris is a practicing transcending MEDITATOR afterall

Notice that phrase a second time. 

 Implicit in that is thinking the mantra at least once.
 

 And you don't have to remember to think the mantra at least once. Thinking the 
mantra can be spontaneous, even from the very start.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/3/2014 4:45 PM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:

 Who says I always end up thinking the mantra a second time?
 

 Sometimes I realize that 20 minutes have gone by lost in thought, and that's 
the end of my meditation.
 
 Not being a teacher of TM but just a common practitioner, I think you have to 
remember to begin the mantra at least once during a meditation. Otherwise you'd 
just be doing a gross, belly flop and making a splash all over the place. 
 
 This happened to me one time - I sat down to meditate and forgot to start my 
mantra - then about 20 minutes later I woke up and discovered that I had been 
merely taking a nap. It wasn't unpleasant and I can't remember what I was doing 
all that time, but it got me to thinking. Go figure.
 

 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
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[FairfieldLife] American Buddhists celebrate no self

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/americanbuddhist/2014/05/buddhism-and-modern-psychology-week-five-looking-at-meditation.html

There's no reconciling the two approaches to spirituality.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Harris is a practicing transcending MEDITATOR afterall

I agree that remembering to sit down to meditate can be a challenge, but I have 
spontaneously slipped into TM many times over the years simply by closing my 
eyes while sitting. Fortunately, teh way our nervous system is set up, you 
don't continue in such a spontaneous meditation for long unless you are in a 
situation where there is no demand on your time in the first place. 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/3/2014 6:25 PM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
  Notice that phrase a second time.
 
 
  Implicit in that is thinking the mantra at least once.
 
  And you don't have to remember to think the mantra at least once. 
  Thinking the mantra can be spontaneous, even from the very start.
 
 You have to remember to sit down and meditate.
 
 For me this is quite a challenge in the first place, since I'm so busy 
 these days posting and dialoging on FFL 24 x 7 about TM and the 
 mechanics of consciousness, levitation and stuff.
 
 But, one time when I was waiting in the car for Rita, I thought of my 
 mantra and so I closed my eyes for a minute of two and it was very 
 restful. It probably was just like what happened to the Buddha sitting 
 under a tree that night, except I was on the corner of rush-hour traffic 
 on a sunny afternoon in downtown Dallas. Go figure.
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Marshy Rules the Earth

I'ave seen worse. This kind of thing is obviously a work of love, rather than 
something done by a commercial ad firm on contract (unless it's Maharishi's own 
design, in which case it could have been done by a multi-million dollar 
contractor -but he always demanded that things be done on house whenever 
possible, so that is not likely.. 

 If you want to see REAL true believer rhetoric in animated form, watch the 
trailing animation of the Maharishi Global Family Chat videos.
 

 L

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Harris is a practicing transcending MEDITATOR afterall

With a purely mental practice, it is impossible to separate the practice, from 
teh way it was taught, so claiming that something else is TM merely because 
it can be described the same way, is a very big intellectual failure. 

 Samatha practices can be described the same way as TM, but the way they are 
taught, they are certainly in the mainstream of focused attention practices, 
and the EEG signature reflects this.
 

 TM, on the other hand, is described as mind-wandering, taught in terms of 
mind-wandering, and the theoretical explanation for how it works is also in 
terms of mind-wandering.
 

 Not surprisingly, the EEG signature of TM is very similar to the EEG signature 
of mind-wandering, albeit more so.
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 But Curtis, you already have some big filters: one, and imo the most 
significant one, that it's preferable to come to a new experience as filter 
free as possible. Shouldn't we challenge this belief too?

And two, don't you already have some significant filters about mindfulness 
simply from reading about it here and elsewhere? Not to mention, from all your 
experiences and beliefs around TM? 
 

 And Richard, how can we possibly separate belief and practice completely? I 
don't think we can simply because we don't live our lives with our heads cut 
off from our bodies!

 On Thursday, May 1, 2014 10:39 PM, curtisdeltablues@... 
curtisdeltablues@... wrote:
 
   I believe this is what Sam Harris is advocating, separating the practices 
from the beliefs. I do not believe all meditations lead to the same mental 
states. TM has never been taught this way through the organization so I guess 
we don't know what innocent TM practice would be like.Even after dropping the 
beliefs my TM practice was influenced by what I had previously believed about 
it. Shaping our beliefs about the practice was a huge priority for Maharishi.

I am hoping to enjoy mindfulness sitting with less concept clutter. Of course I 
can only be marginally successful with this goal, but I am not presently 
reading a bunch of stuff about it yet. Someday I'm sure I will, but I would 
like some more less filtered experience first. This is pretty much the 
reverse of how I approached TM.

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/1/2014 9:43 PM, curtisdeltablues@... mailto:curtisdeltablues@... wrote:

 

 It's all the same Unified Field once you get going.
 
 C: Although Sam Harris practices a form of meditation that came from the 
Buddhist traditions  he does not self identify himself as a Buddhist.
 
 The concepts and practices of Buddhism, according to Stephen Batchelor, are 
not something to believe in but something to do. It is a practice that we can 
all engage in, regardless of our background or beliefs, as we live every day on 
the path to spiritual enlightenment. 
 
 Basic TM is Buddhist yoga - it may be that MMY should have left it at that and 
retired back in 1955 instead of muddying the waters, so to speak. Basic TM 
should be able to stand on its own. That's what I think.
 
 Recommended:
 
 'Buddhism Without Beliefs: A Contemporary Guide to Awakening'
 by Stephen Batchelor
 Riverhead Trade, 1998
 

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement:

TM practice starts to create higher alpha-1 (slower range of alpha band) EEG 
coherence in the part of the brain that most scientists agree is important for 
our sense of self. 

 In the long-term, TM practice, alternated with normal activity, starts to 
create a situation where teh EEG signature of TM starts to be found more 
strongly outside of TM.
 

 Given teh above, is it rocket science to say that TM practice spontaneously 
strengthens sense of self outside of TM practice? 
 

 It is certainly the case that TM practice creates a situation where alpha-1 
EEG coherence in he part of the brain that most scientists agree is important 
for our sense of self becomes higher than before.
 

 It is certainly the case that many people interpret whatever internal 
discussable experience associated with this alpha-1 EEG coherence happens to 
arise in terms of self.
 

 In fact, about 20 years ago or so, a psychologist published a paper on 6 of 
his patients who had been practicing TM for beteen 1.5 and 20 years, who all 
complained of some kind of permanent uninvolved self.
 

 The fact that they had no psychological compliant other than a concern about 
how weird it was to have a self that didn't do anything, led the psychologist 
to call for a reinterpretation of depersonalization. In teh DSM-IV, they 
ended up adding a spiritual practices exemption for people who practiced TM 
and other forms of meditation: if they were having some kind of 
depersonalization/dissociative state that had no pathology and appeared to 
result from meditation practice, they didn't have dissociative disorder.
 

 L

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 From: curtisdeltablues@... curtisdeltablues@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 3:30 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM 
Movement:
 
 
   R: 
According to Harris, by paying close attention to moment-to-moment 
 conscious experience, it is possible to make our sense of self vanish 
 and thereby uncover a new state of personal well-being.
 
 'The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason'
 by SamHarris
 W.W. Norton  Company, 2004
 p. 214

C: Excellent quote find Richard! 

What I believe distinguishes him from the Maharishi perspective is that he does 
not identify the silent aspect of the mind with a higher Self. This also 
corresponds with my own experience of using TM without the belief system. I 
cannot say that what I used to consider  my Self, is the most important aspect 
of my identity. That move is an intellectual one supported by the belief system 
and triggered by the mahavakyas in Maharishi's system. Without that presumption 
it appears as just another aspect of a multifaceted identity cluster which may 
or may not be all illusion. I am fascinated by exploring this without the usual 
assumptions from the Vedic perspective.

 

 Excellent point, Curtis. One of the things I reject about almost all forms of 
spirituality I've encountered is that they're stuck in hierarchical thinking. 
One's sense of self is lower than one's sense of Self. They build their 
whole philosophies around their assumption that the universe is hierarchical in 
nature. I honestly don't believe it is. I think it's relational. (For me to 
explain this, I'd have to trot out my rap about hierarchical vs. relational 
databases, and I doubt anyone wants to read through that again.) 

 

 I'm a hard social scientist when it comes to which comes first -- the 
experience one is trying to interpret or find meaning in, or the belief system 
one uses to interpret it. IMO the belief system always comes first. It colors 
anything you experience. So if he's got suggestions for how one can avoid that 
trap, I'd love to hear them.
 

 Love your phrase just another aspect of a multifaceted identity cluster which 
may or may not be all illusion. That's it. What TMers and New Agers call 
Self is Just Another Experience. Not higher, not lower, and possibly not even 
happening at all. :-) 

 

 Just sitting and noticing. 
 

 Another good phrase.
 

Thanks for digging that up.  



 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/1/2014 3:26 PM, curtisdeltablues@... mailto:curtisdeltablues@... wrote:
  Any tips or insights, especially since you have a TM history and might 
  know the issues TMers might have would be welcome. 
 
 According to Harris, by paying close attention to moment-to-moment 
 conscious experience, it is possible to make our sense of self vanish 
 and thereby uncover a new state of personal well-being.
 
 'The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason'
 by SamHarris
 W.W. Norton  Company, 2004
 p. 214
 
 ---
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement:

Different meditation practices create different situations in the brain. 

 Most meditation practices other than TM create a situation where the 
connection between the self-centers and the rest of teh brain becomes less, 
rather than more, during meditation practice.
 

 http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf 
http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf

 

 In fact, the authors specifically suggest that this may be why many spiritual 
traditions talk in terms of destroying or reducing self:
 

 In experienced meditators (13 Tibetan Buddhists, 15 QiGong, 14 Sahaja Yoga, 14 
Ananda Marga Yoga, 15 Zen), 19-channel EEG was recorded before, during and 
after that meditation exercise which their respective tradition regards as 
route to the most desirable meditative state
 ...
 
 Conventional coherence between the original head surface EEG time series very 
predominantly also showed reduced coherence during meditation.
 ...
 The globally reduced functional interdependence between brain regions in 
meditation suggests that interaction between the self process functions is 
minimized, and that constraints on the self process by other processes are 
minimized, thereby leading to the subjective experience of non-involvement, 
detachment and letting go, as well as of all-oneness and dissolution of ego 
borders during meditation. 
 
 
 
  
 

 

 

 
 
 

 

 

 On the other hand, Fred Travis and Alaric Arenander have both talked to the 
above researchers, and they are now doing several studies specifically on TM. 
The first of them is to redo the above study but using experienced TMers 
instead of people experienced in other meditation practices. That should be 
published later this year, I think.
 

 Since TM researchers are excited about the study, I think it is safe to assume 
that TM has a different physical effect that the effect documented in the first 
study using non-TM.
 

 By the way, in case you haven't watched it, this video by Alaric Arenander 
(part of his promotion of his new EEG and TM course) gives a very good feel for 
what might be an explanation for GC and UC in terms of EEG:
 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd_b-LS6SzQlist=UU0iwNoV7Sptxi1qqWz_R9IA 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd_b-LS6SzQlist=UU0iwNoV7Sptxi1qqWz_R9IA

 

 In the first parts of teh video, 
 

 first, you see alpha-1 EEG coherence during TM practice between 2 leads in the 
front, representative of increased EEG coherence in the self-centers.
 

 Later, you see EEG coherence bouncing up and down between two leads in the 
back, what Alaric calls the world [represented in the brain].
 

 Then, you see EEG coherence bouncing up and down between two leads: front 
back: left   front  back: right, indicating that the integration between the 
front of the brain and back of the brain (self and world as Alaric puts it) 
is becoming more integrated.
 

 

 I'll go out on a limb and suggest that his is a signature of growing GC, when 
it appears outside of meditation: you are starting to perceive more and more 
subtle aspects of the world, simply because there is a quiet background upon 
which the world is projected.
 

 In the last 5-6 minutes of the video, you see the before/after EEG coherence 
of someone who has been on the Invincible America course, doing TM and the 
TM-SIdhis 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 2 years or so.
 

 It is only the coherence in the frontal lobes that is shown, but unless Alaric 
tells me differently, I assume it applies to the other leads as well: not only 
is alpha-1 EEG *extremely* coherent during TM, but beta and gama are showing 
much higher EEG coherence than in the before picture.
 

 

 If this pattern holds for the other leads,  you could say that all electrical 
activity in the brain is harmonic fluctuations of alpha-1 EEG, so that in a 
physical way, perception of reality IS fluctuations of pure consciousness and 
it is conceivable that Unity Consciousness is simply where this situation 
becomes so pronounced that the meditator becomes aware of it without having to 
look at an EEG trace: it is there own default way of looking at the world.
 

 

 L
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 turq, I agree with you about the use of hierarchy. But what about using the 
concept of fuller stages of development wrt humans? This might even be 
measurable scientifically. What others have called Self just might be a label 
for the situation in which most of the brain functioning in an optimally 
healthy way.
 

 On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:23 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote:
 
   From: curtisdeltablues@... curtisdeltablues@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 3:30 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM 
Movement:
 
 
   R: 
According to Harris, by paying close attention to moment-to-moment 
 conscious experience, it is possible to

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement:

Maharishi himself admits that 7 states of consciousness is anartificial way 
of looking at growth towards enlightenment. However it is convenient, and in my 
previous post, I pointed out how growth in EEG coherence in the meditator might 
parallel Maharishi's artificial categories to some extent. 

 One thing I left out is that within 1 year of TM practice, alpha-1 EEG 
coherence between all leads, not just the front ones like teh video shows, 
starts to get very high. There's still plenty of room for growth between 0.9 
and 0.99 coherence, and that continues to grow indefinitely for the rest of the 
meditator's life.
 

 it is outside of meditation where the most obvious changes in alpha-1 EEG 
coherence take place, as most people have relatively low alpha-1 when they are 
doing things, but people reporting stabilized pure consciousness during waking, 
dreaming and sleeping show much higher levels of alpha-1 EEG coherence in the 
frontal lobes, approaching what is found during TM in 1-year meditators.
 

 So, even though global EEG coherence in all frequencies starts to show up 
relatively quickly during TM, it takes a long time for that to happen outside 
of TM.
 

 And HOW the higher EEG coherence appears in each frequency probably varies a 
bit from individual to individual, though the beginnings of a broad pattern is 
already obvious:
 

 During meditation, first alpha1 EEG coherence in teh areas responsible for 
sense of self starts to become greater. Then alpha1 EEG coherence between teh 
self-centers and teh rest of teh brain becomes greater.

 

 At the same time, I would suspect, EEG coherence in all frequencies in all 
areas of the brain is becoming greater, but I bet it tends to appear first in 
the frontal lobes, just as it did for alpha 1.
 

 Growth in EEG coherence outside of meditation probably mirrors how it occurs 
during TM, so the broad CC/GC/UC pattern is broadly accurate, but with 
individuals varying all over the place, even well outside the official average 
pattern that MMY called CC = GC = UC.
 

 

 Of course, the above only applies to TM or something else that induces the 
same kind of pattern during meditation as TM does. Some studies on Zen  and 
Ch'an suggest the same kind of pattern, but it is very uneven in the scientific 
literature, presumably because Zen and Ch'an meditation teachers aren't as 
consistently trained as TM teachers.
 

 L
 

 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 Bullshit. fuller stages of development is just another hierarchy. Brains 
functioning in an optimally healthy way is another hierarchy. Both are mere 
assumptions.

 From: Share Long sharelong60@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 4:30 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM 
Movement:
 
 
   turq, I agree with you about the use of hierarchy. But what about using the 
concept of fuller stages of development wrt humans? This might even be 
measurable scientifically. What others have called Self just might be a label 
for the situation in which most of the brain functioning in an optimally 
healthy way.
 

 On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:23 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote:
 
   From: curtisdeltablues@... curtisdeltablues@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 3:30 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM 
Movement:
 
 
   R: 
According to Harris, by paying close attention to moment-to-moment 
 conscious experience, it is possible to make our sense of self vanish 
 and thereby uncover a new state of personal well-being.
 
 'The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason'
 by SamHarris
 W.W. Norton  Company, 2004
 p. 214

C: Excellent quote find Richard! 

What I believe distinguishes him from the Maharishi perspective is that he does 
not identify the silent aspect of the mind with a higher Self. This also 
corresponds with my own experience of using TM without the belief system. I 
cannot say that what I used to consider  my Self, is the most important aspect 
of my identity. That move is an intellectual one supported by the belief system 
and triggered by the mahavakyas in Maharishi's system. Without that presumption 
it appears as just another aspect of a multifaceted identity cluster which may 
or may not be all illusion. I am fascinated by exploring this without the usual 
assumptions from the Vedic perspective.

 

 Excellent point, Curtis. One of the things I reject about almost all forms of 
spirituality I've encountered is that they're stuck in hierarchical thinking. 
One's sense of self is lower than one's sense of Self. They build their 
whole philosophies around their assumption that the universe is hierarchical in 
nature. I honestly don't believe it is. I think it's relational. (For me to 
explain this, I'd have to trot out my rap about hierarchical vs. relational 
databases, and

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement:

Are you saying that TM is a technique? 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Richard, belly flop is a really good analogy imo. And I also agree with you 
that everyone transcends even without a technique. I know you've said it 
before, but this time it hit me just right. Thanks. 
 

 On Friday, May 2, 2014 10:00 AM, Richard J. Williams punditster@... wrote:
 
   On 5/2/2014 6:47 AM, Share Long wrote:
  Richard, I don't think *thinking things over in the conscious mind* 
  really describes TM! Though it is one possible definition of meditation.
 
 According to MMY, TM is based on thinking - anyone who can think can 
 meditate. So, everyone is already meditating to a certain degree. 
 According to Charles Lutes, meditation means to think, and transcend 
 means to go beyond thinking. The idea is to experience subtler states of 
 awareness, free from distracting thoughts. Most people remain on the 
 gross surface level of thinking - they don't dive very deep within very 
 much at all. TM and other techniques provide a more direct angle for the 
 diving.
 
 Everyday conscious thinking is more like a belly flop into a pool, which 
 gets them into the water, but at the same time causes waves all around - 
 compared to using a technique to dive deep into the water without 
 disturbing everyone around them. Both get you into the water, but 
 sometimes a belly flop can be quite stressful and cause you to think 
 you're a klutz - when that happens it can be disconcerting.
 
 meditation
 
 –noun
 
 1 to think calm thoughts in order to
 relax or as a religious activity:
 Sophie meditates for 20 minutes every
 day.
 
 2 to think seriously about something
 for a long time: He meditated on the
 consequences of his decision.
 
 Source:
 
 Cambridge University Dictionary:
 http://tinyurl.com/dz5ut2
 
 ---
 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement:

[Absolute] Bliss [Consciousness] isn't blissful -Maharishi Mahesh Yogi 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 5:01 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM 
Movement:
 
 
   I'd like to know how Curtis does this dive deep for samadhi meditation, I 
have been doing some shikantaza meditation, but I just get vibbed with the 
bliss I feel after a little while and then get up and go do something else. The 
bliss starts after about one minute so its like, ok I'm here now WTF do I do? 
Bliss gets tiresome after a while I find. Any guidance on that Curtis?
 

 I'm not Curtis, but I'll comment. I consider bliss almost as overrated and 
overvalued as relying on subjective experience as one's standard for what 
constitutes truth or reality or providing value. 

 

 In many spiritual traditions bliss is considered a TRAP, an illusory state 
that many people never get past. In occult terms, its energy is associated with 
the lower astral planes. Many traditions seek to transcend bliss and get to 
something more interesting.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris

Radical anything (including TM) is a dire threat to the world, depending on 
what you mean by radical. 

 and certainly, depending on one's definintion, it is trivially obvious that 
free will is an illusion.
 

 and I agree that [at least in many cases], science CAN guide our moral 
reasoning -again this is trivial, depending on definitions.
 

 

 What little I have seen and read of Sam Harris doesn't stun me, however.
 

 And he fails to make any real distinction between TM and mindfulness and 
focused attention practices: Lame-o.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, krysto@... wrote :

 Talk of Sam Harris brings me out of the FFL shadows.  

 Harris is, in my view, one of the clearest and boldest thinkers in the world 
today.  One may disagree with any number of his positions (that radical Islam 
presents a dire threat to the world, that free will is an illusion, that 
science can guide our moral decisions) but the intelligence and power with 
which he expresses himself is stunning.  The surprising twist that this 
committed atheist and materialist is fascinated by the value that meditation 
can provide makes him all the more interesting.  Go for it, Rick!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement:

Different traditions say different things. 

 Do you REALLY think that MMY made up his discussion of bliss and so on? They 
are very much taken from his guru's expositions of the same, as far as I know, 
using updated terminology and geared for talking to Westerners.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 And I find int interesting that some traditions associate bliss w/ lower 
astral realms when Marshy put such emphasis on the bliss of the Absolute and 
all that jazz
 
 On Fri, 5/2/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM 
Movement:
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, May 2, 2014, 3:12 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Michael Jackson
 mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@...
 To:
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, May 2,
 2014 5:01 PM
 Subject: Re:
 [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM
 Movement:
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'd like to know how Curtis does this dive
 deep for samadhi meditation, I have been doing some
 shikantaza meditation, but I just get vibbed with the bliss
 I feel after a little while and then get up and go do
 something else. The bliss starts after about one minute so
 its like, ok I'm here now WTF do I do? Bliss gets
 tiresome after a while I find. Any guidance on that
 Curtis?
 I'm not Curtis, but I'll comment. I consider
 bliss almost as overrated and overvalued as
 relying on subjective experience as one's standard for
 what constitutes truth or reality or providing
 value. 
 
 In many spiritual traditions bliss is
 considered a TRAP, an illusory state that many people never
 get past. In occult terms, its energy is associated with the
 lower astral planes. Many traditions seek to transcend
 bliss and get to something more interesting.

[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris

Christianity institutionalizes slavery too, simply by spelling out the 
responsibilities that masters and slaves have. 

 Using the Bible to justify owning slaves is considered bad form these days, 
however.
 

 

 Islam, being about 800 years younger, hasn't gotten to the same social stage, 
in my opinion, and it is a horrible joke of the Cosmic All that the most 
backward Islamic societies ended up being the most wealthy, so they haven't 
been forced, due to free trade necessity, to grow up faster.
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jedi_spock@... wrote :

 
 Nice to meet you Krysto.

Islam sanctions institutionalised slavery.  A muslim man can 
keep any number of non-muslim women as slaves.  He can also 
keep any number of concubines, apart from his 4 wives.

Jihadi supremacists are serious about this stupid, 
unscientific, barbaric religious ideology.  These 
revelations are the delusions of a lunatic, and anybody 
who believes them, are just like the people who believed 
Hitler or Stalin.


---  krysto@... wrote :

 Talk of Sam Harris brings me out of the FFL shadows.  

 Harris is, in my view, one of the clearest and boldest thinkers in the world 
today.  One may disagree with any number of his positions (that radical Islam 
presents a dire threat to the world, that free will is an illusion, that 
science can guide our moral decisions) but the intelligence and power with 
which he expresses himself is stunning.  The surprising twist that this 
committed atheist and materialist is fascinated by the value that meditation 
can provide makes him all the more interesting.  Go for it, Rick!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris

Comments below as well: 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Comments below...
 

 

 From a sociological POV this question has vast implications, and always has, 
in how we approach society's sense of justice in our legal system. It wasn't 
long ago that we hanged an elephant for killing a man. Today we have people on 
death row who were not mentally able to make a choice, so this topic is very up 
as we learn more about the brain and how it creates sociopaths. I believe that 
this information may lead to a more just humane society where we don't sentence 
people with a wink wink to getting raped in prison for their choice to commit 
a crime. 
 
I guess I'm not that idealistic. I think there are people out there in the 
world who read the news reports about Oklahoma's recent botched execution and 
felt GOOD that the prisoner suffered. I don't see them altering these views in 
any way as a result of some kind of science trying to convince them that 
there is no free will.
 

 Probably not, but on the other hand such people are most likely a small 
minority, not nearly enough for their view to determine how society treats 
criminals. The outrage over that execution was worldwide.
 

 The online forums are full of people who are expressing outrage over the 
outrage and I'd say the outraged outrage approaches 50% of the posts, even in 
the liberal forums. I've yet to see a formal poll taken on the topic.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Harris is a practicing transcending MEDITATOR afterall

TM isn't a mindfulness practice in any typical sense of the word used by 
meditation practitioners, and by anyone else, for that matter. 

 ... other than people who just tack it on and say TM is mindfuless without 
thinking things through (I've done this myself, so I'm pointing more fingers 
inward than outward, here).
 
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/2/2014 9:45 AM, curtisdeltablues@... mailto:curtisdeltablues@... wrote:

 I am open to Maharishi's perspective that in fact I am so habituated from his 
practice that I am not actually practicing a mindfulness practice at all. But 
my experience leads me to believe that I am having a different subjective 
experience so I am working with what I have. 
 This becomes very simple when you realize that TM IS mindfullness.  Anything 
can be an object of meditation - a thought, a sound, a mantra or an image or 
just being aware of breathing in and out. The idea in both is to transcend 
thinking and to get beyond discursive reasoning.
 

 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Harris is a practicing transcending MEDITATOR afterall

Maharishi, in later life, tried to clarify what he means by devas (Hindu gods 
and goddesses). 

 A claim that he was lying because he attempted to use less confusing/procative 
terms when dealing with Westerners (e.g. devas are fundamental 
impulses/vibrations of pure consciousness) is unwarranted. 
 

 The term deva literally translates as shining one from Sansrkit, and in 
the context of dhyan and the Yoga Sutras, where it says that any attractive 
object of attention can be used as an ishtadeva [cherished shining one], to 
say that TM mantras are sounds chosen for their attractive effect during 
meditation captures the intent of the Yoga Sutras better in a modern context 
than saying that mantras fetch us the grace of personal gods.
 

 

 Otherwise, you're insisting that using the word booyah or some random visual 
image as your ishtadeva during meditation is to make booyah or  the random 
visual image a sacred deity because that is literally what the Yoga Sutra says 
if you insist that deva is a deity in all contexts.
 

 

 L

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris

Harris advocates a first strike against Iran? 

 That's not controversialy, that's insane.
 

 When you interview him, be sure to change the name of batgap forum for that 
episode.
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/2/2014 10:02 AM, Rick Archer wrote:

 Last night I read the first chapter of the End of Faith and LOVED it. Didn’t 
disagree with anything I’ve read so far. I’m taking notes and will post them 
for discussion later on. 
 You may find the idea of a nuclear first-strike against Iran to be not quite 
to your liking, but I tend to agree with Harris on this - avoid the danger that 
lies ahead.
 

 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris

Daisy Cutter bombs and similar conventional ordinance can strike just as hard 
as tactical nukes without worrying about fallout, physical or political or 
moral or whatever. 

 He's either an ignorant ass, or trying to make controversial statements to 
sell his book (see the ass in first part of sentence).
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote :

 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

 Harris advocates a first strike against Iran? 

 That's not controversialy, that's insane.
 

 When you interview him, be sure to change the name of batgap forum for that 
episode.
 

C: Your very funny comment on changing the name of Batgap, I am assuming to 
batshit aside...

this is a slanderous misread of Harris' position by journalists which he 
clarifies here:

http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2 
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2

The basic upshot is that he was painting a hypothetical combination of a 
society that glorifies suicidal actions against infidels combined with long 
range nuclear capability and the fact that we do have nuclear weapons that we 
would use if we believed we were in imminent danger.

Needless to say, this would be an unthinkable crime—as it would kill tens of 
millions of innocent civilians in a single day—but it may be the only course of 
action available to us, given what Islamists believe. Harris 
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2#sthash.G6o2BhSt.dpuf
 What will we do if an Islamist regime, which grows dewy-eyed at the mere 
mention of paradise, ever acquires long-range nuclear weaponry? If history is 
any guide, we will not be sure about where the offending warheads are or what 
their state of readiness is, and so we will be unable to rely on targeted, 
conventional weapons to destroy them. In such a situation, the only thing 
likely to ensure our survival may be a nuclear first strike of our own. 
Needless to say, this would be an unthinkable crime—as it would kill tens of 
millions of innocent civilians in a single day—but it may be the only course of 
action available to us, given what Islamists believe. How would such an 
unconscionable act of self-defense be perceived by the rest of the Muslim 
world? It would likely be seen as the first incursion of a genocidal crusade. 
The horrible irony here is that seeing could make it so: this very perception 
could plunge us into a state of hot war with any Muslim state that had the 
capacity to pose a nuclear threat of its own. All of this is perfectly insane, 
of course: I have just described a plausible scenario in which much of the 
world’s population could be annihilated on account of religious ideas that 
belong on the same shelf with Batman, the philosopher’s stone, and unicorns. 
That it would be a horrible absurdity for so many of us to die for the sake of 
myth does not mean, however, that it could not happen. - See more at: 
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2#sthash.G6o2BhSt.dpuf
 
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2#sthash.G6o2BhSt.dpuf


 
He is not for it, he is against it. He believes the beliefs in Islam might 
cause it so he is against those beliefs.



 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/2/2014 10:02 AM, Rick Archer wrote:

 Last night I read the first chapter of the End of Faith and LOVED it. Didn’t 
disagree with anything I’ve read so far. I’m taking notes and will post them 
for discussion later on. 
 You may find the idea of a nuclear first-strike against Iran to be not quite 
to your liking, but I tend to agree with Harris on this - avoid the danger that 
lies ahead.
 

 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Harris is a practicing transcending MEDITATOR afterall

Who says I maintain attention on the mantra? 

 Remembering to maintain attention attention on a thought is NOT effortlessly 
thinking a thought.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/2/2014 2:01 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:

 I disagree that TM is mindfullness, and I disagree because of Marshy's intent 
and belief. 
 Mindfulness is the practice of awareness, a factor on the path to 
enlightenment. Mindfulness practice is inherited from the Buddhist tradition. 
Buddhism makes use of mantras, so by your logic mindfullness is not meditation? 
Go figure.
 
 This sounds almost exactly like TM:
 
 When practicing mindfulness, for instance by watching the breath, one must 
remember to maintain attention on the chosen object of awareness, faithfully 
returning back to refocus on that object whenever the mind wanders away from 
it. - B. Allen Wallace
 
 http://www.mindandlife.org/dialogues/past-conferences/ml18/ 
http://www.mindandlife.org/dialogues/past-conferences/ml18/
 

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement:

TM isn't even a technique, but simply a strategy that hopefully is absorbed by 
the meditator after sitting in on the TM course for the requisite number of 
days. 

 I came up with a different way of putting it recently:
 

 The TM class is a 4-day long koan, that is hopefully going to clarify the 
nonsensical phrase think a mantra effortlessly 
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/2/2014 7:25 PM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
  Are you saying that TM is a technique?
 
 A technique is something you do. The ability to dive is a technique. The 
 practice of TM is a technique. The result of diving is immersion. The 
 result of TM is samadhi. In the yoga tradition, it is the eighth and 
 final limb identified in the Yoga Sutras of Patañjali. Samadhi is a 
 state of beingness.
 
 Samadhi is like an abiding in which mind becomes very still but does not 
 merge with the object of attention, and is thus able to observe and gain 
 insight into the changing flow of experience. Samadhi is based on 
 attention and memory.
 
 According to Nisargadatta Maharaj, When you say you sit for meditation, 
 the first thing to be done is understand that it is not this body 
 identification that is sitting for meditation, but this knowledge ‘I 
 am’, this consciousness, which is sitting in meditation and is 
 meditating on itself. When this is finally understood, then it becomes 
 easy. When this consciousness, this conscious presence, merges in 
 itself, the state of ‘Samadhi’ ensues. It is the conceptual feeling that 
 I exist that disappears and merges into the beingness itself.
 
 
http://www.maharajnisargadatta.com/nisargadatta_quotes_from_ultimate_medicine.php
 
http://www.maharajnisargadatta.com/nisargadatta_quotes_from_ultimate_medicine.php
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Harris is a practicing transcending MEDITATOR afterall

 it is presented to you can have a significant effect 
on the practice as your experience evolves, and can be an aid or a barrier to 
further progress depending. Because traditions are basically cultural and 
behavioural ruts, I think it is a liability to put all one's eggs in one 
basket. A healthy degree of scepticism, curiosity - the will to find out - can 
become very important, in other words, do not expect enlightenment to be handed 
to you on a golden platter, without some initiative and independent 
intelligence on your part. So if the Master, the Priest, the Organisation, or 
whatever, puts the doggy bowl in front of you and you lap it up unthinkingly, 
you get what you deserve.
 

 This also has relevance to the idea of 'not deluding the ignorant'; because 
the 'ignorant' are deluded anyway, it really does not matter that much what 
might be said to them. So hiding a particular view about how 'the enlightened' 
experience life may not be necessary at all, since no matter what you say it 
will be misunderstood. There should always be a way to express the full range 
of human experience in a way the both intrigues and captivates people without 
the need to hide things from them. As a spiritual organisation ages, its 
priesthood tends to hold back the gems of useful knowledge about development of 
experience, kind of as a self preservation issue. If reality is all pervasive, 
the only thing that is, then how in fact could it be hid?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

 TM isn't a mindfulness practice in any typical sense of the word used by 
meditation practitioners, and by anyone else, for that matter. 

 ... other than people who just tack it on and say TM is mindfuless without 
thinking things through (I've done this myself, so I'm pointing more fingers 
inward than outward, here).
 
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/2/2014 9:45 AM, curtisdeltablues@... mailto:curtisdeltablues@... wrote:

 I am open to Maharishi's perspective that in fact I am so habituated from his 
practice that I am not actually practicing a mindfulness practice at all. But 
my experience leads me to believe that I am having a different subjective 
experience so I am working with what I have. 
 This becomes very simple when you realize that TM IS mindfullness.  Anything 
can be an object of meditation - a thought, a sound, a mantra or an image or 
just being aware of breathing in and out. The idea in both is to transcend 
thinking and to get beyond discursive reasoning.
 

 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris

Hast thou never heard of Daisy Cutters and other super-conventional weapons? 

 There's no need to advocate our going nuclear against any small country, ever.
 

 

 L

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 5/2/2014 9:22 PM, curtisdeltablues@... mailto:curtisdeltablues@... wrote:
  Harris advocates a first strike against Iran?
 
 A first nuclear strike against Iran may be the only option considering 
 the goal of Sunni Islam is the annihilation of the Western world. The 
 enemy is the closed society that preaches violence and death against 
 everyone that does not believe in Allah. Harris pulls no punches - he is 
 a pragmatist.
 
  That's not controversialy, that's insane.
 
 So, in order to avoid the danger that lies ahead - vast human atrocities 
 - maybe we should consider the nuclear option. According to Harris, this 
 may be the only option available to us, given what Islamists believe in 
 the event of an Islamist regime such as Iran acquiring nuclear weapons 
 capability.
 
 Work cited:
 
 'The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason'
 by Sam Harris
 W. W. Norton, 2004
 p. 129
 
 ---
 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
protection is active.
 http://www.avast.com http://www.avast.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris

I'd like to know his take on Fred Travis' article published in the New York
Academy of Sciences that discusses the preliminary research on Cosmic
Consciousness:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10./nyas.12316/full
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10./nyas.12316/full

Specific research on pure consciousness discussed in that paper:

Breath Suspension During the Transcendental Meditation Technique
http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/44/2/133.full.pdf

Electrophysiologic Characteristics of Respiratory Suspension Periods Occurring
During the Practice of the Transcendental Meditation Program
http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/46/3/267.full.pdf

Autonomic patterns during respiratory suspensions: Possible markers of
Transcendental Consciousness
http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/transcendental-consciousness.pdf

Correlates of stabilization of pure consciousness, aka Cosmic Consciousenss
-the preliminary stage of enlightenment in TM-theory:

Psychological

http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf

http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf
physiological

http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

Hast thou never heard of Daisy Cutters and other super-conventional weapons?

There's no need to advocate our going nuclear against any small country, ever.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

On 5/2/2014 9:22 PM, curtisdeltablues@... mailto:curtisdeltablues@... wrote:
Harris advocates a first strike against Iran?

A first nuclear strike against Iran may be the only option considering
the goal of Sunni Islam is the annihilation of the Western world. The
enemy is the closed society that preaches violence and death against
everyone that does not believe in Allah. Harris pulls no punches - he is
a pragmatist.

That's not controversialy, that's insane.

So, in order to avoid the danger that lies ahead - vast human atrocities
- maybe we should consider the nuclear option. According to Harris, this
may be the only option available to us, given what Islamists believe in
the event of an Islamist regime such as Iran acquiring nuclear weapons
capability.

Work cited:

'The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason'
by Sam Harris
W. W. Norton, 2004
p. 129

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com http://www.avast.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris

I responded to the wrong post last time: 

 

 I'd like to know his take on Fred Travis' article published in the New York 
Academy of Sciences that discusses the preliminary research on Cosmic 
Consciousness: 
 

 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10./nyas.12316/full 
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10./nyas.12316/full

 

 

 Specific research on pure consciousness discussed in that paper:
 

 Breath Suspension During the Transcendental Meditation Technique 
http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/44/2/133.full.pdf
 

 Electrophysiologic Characteristics of Respiratory Suspension Periods Occurring 
During the Practice of the Transcendental Meditation Program 
 http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/46/3/267.full.pdf
 

 Autonomic patterns during respiratory suspensions: Possible markers of 
Transcendental Consciousness 
http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/transcendental-consciousness.pdf
 

 

 

 Correlates of stabilization of pure consciousness, aka Cosmic Consciousenss 
-the preliminary stage of enlightenment in TM-theory:

 

  Psychological 
 
http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf
 
http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf
 physiological 

 
http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf
 
http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf

 

 

 

 L




 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote :

 I have this idea kicking around in my head to try to interview Sam Harris, or 
someone like him. An intelligent atheist, as I understand him. I’d want to read 
all his books first, and then hash out the likely points of discussion with you 
beforehand. We could do it on FFL. My perspective is very SCI-like – that 
intelligence is omnipresent, all-pervading, and obvious if one looks closely 
enough. I’m interviewing a guy named Bernardo Kastrup in a couple of months who 
has written a book called “Why Materialism is Baloney”, but it would be fun to 
interview an intelligent materialist, if that’s what Harris is, and see if we 
could find any common ground. What do you think?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Alfred, Lord Tennyson's mantra

2014-05-01 Thread LEnglish5

I was talking about the teaching methodology in that previous post. 

 Presumably Tennyson spontaneously arrived at his practice. Gee, for those who 
believe in reincarnation, perhaps this means that he was very spiritual in his 
last lifetime as well?
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 
 He probably didn't want to get sued Lawson. Besides, I don't see any mention 
of the correct hand gestures or posture or tone of voice. Are you sure we'r 
talking about the same thing?
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

 I didn't see the words Transcendental Meditation in there any where, and how 
did you miss the memo about Craig Pearson's new book describing experiences of 
transcendence throughout the ages? 

 For that matter, were you asleep in lectures where Maharishi explained that TM 
was a rediscovering of something that had been around forever?
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote :

 Victorian poet Tennyson seems to have stumbled upon TM before MMY took out the 
copyright on the name. Take this quote of his:
 

 A kind of walking trance I have frequently had, quite up from boyhood, when I 
have been all alone. This has often come upon me through repeating my own name 
to myself silently till, all at once, as it were, out of the intensity of the 
consciousness of individuality, the individuality itself seemed to dissolve and 
fade away into boundless being; and this not a confused state, but the clearest 
of the clearest, the surest of the surest, the weirdest of the weirdest, 
utterly beyond words, where death was an almost laughable impossibility, the 
loss of personality (if so it were) seeming no extinction, but the only true 
life.
 

 I love that line: where death was an almost laughable impossibility.
 

 Here's a (clearly autobiographical) passage from Ancient Sage . . . 
 

 And more, my son! for more than once when I
Sat all alone, revolving in myself
The word that is the symbol of myself,
The mortal limit of the Self was loosed,
And past into the Nameless, as a cloud
Melts into heaven. I touch'd my limbs, the limbs
Were strange, not mine--and yet no shade of doubt,
But utter clearness, and thro' loss of Self
The gain of such large life as match'd with ours
Were Sun to spark--unshadowable in words,
Themselves but shadows of a shadow-world.

 

 
  And here's another quote to show how vitally important the experience was to 
him:
 

 Yes, it is true there are moments when the flesh is nothing to me, when I 
feel and know the flesh to be the vision, God and the spiritual—the only real 
and true. Depend upon it, the spiritual is the real; it belongs to one more 
than the hand and the foot. You may tell me that my hand and my foot are only 
imaginary symbols of my existence. I could believe you, but you never, never 
can convince me that the I is not an eternal reality, and that the spiritual is 
not the true and real part of me.
 

 I wonder what his mantra was: 
 The word that is the symbol of myself and Repeating my own name to myself 
silently.
 

 Did he repeat Alf or Alfie or what? AaalPh sounds like it 
would make an acceptable mantra! We need some clever chap to create a universal 
mantra program on the Web. You type in the syllables and the program lets you 
know what effect the vibrations would have on your nervous system.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Things grow better with Coke

2014-05-01 Thread LEnglish5


 I just priced teh Almond Energy drink from MAPI.
 

 $15 for enough for 42 x 8 once servings. That's not any worse than other 
products, as far as I can tell.
 

 

 L

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Marshy wasn't making money on sales of Coke, so why should he want people to 
drink it? I'm surprised he didn't have his sycophants make and market some sort 
of Maharishi Ayurvedic soft drink guaranteed to put one into Brahmin 
consciousness - but only after consuming copious amounts of it. It could have 
been marketed to the millionaires and rajas at around a $1,000.00 per liter and 
would have been as effective as all his other nostrums. 
 
 On Thu, 5/1/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Things grow better with Coke
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Thursday, May 1, 2014, 9:45 AM
 

 Don't drink that -
 Maharishihttp://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/02/india.johnvidal 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/02/india.johnvidal

Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out

I can't speak to what TM teachers were paid in the past, but you can check the 
Maharishi Foundation form 990 for how many people learned TM and what they were 
paid in 2012. 

 

 $500+ per person for adults, and $296 per person for students.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:46 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out
 
 
   

It's most likely true that the TMO have a lot of demand at the moment, they 
have a great PR team and loads of celebrities saying they do it and like it. 
Everyone likes celeb's, look at what the Beatles did for the TMO, now they've 
got Russell Brand, how can they fail!

On the other hand, why should we or anyone else *believe* these stories about 
the numbers of people learning TM? It's NOT as if they have a track record for 
telling the truth. 

Or has everyone forgotten the lame attempt to co-opt some Mayan prophecy by 
claiming in press releases that they had gathered a group of 10,000 Mayans 
practicing the TMSP? Then they published an actual photo of the event that 
showed at most 200 to 300 people. The TM movement lies all the time. Why should 
anyone believe anything their fanatical True Believers claim now?

Also, regarding this latest low cost attempt to create new TM teachers, does 
anyone remember the *last* time the TM movement promised teachers full time 
work? The teachers had to quit their existing jobs and commit to working for 
the TMO full-time, and were guaranteed a livable salary. No one ever got paid, 
and the whole scam was abandoned within a few months and never mentioned again. 
My suspicion is that this is exactly what is going to happen to the poor 
schmucks who believe the sales spiel and take out loans for this course, 
believing that the loans will be written off after a couple of years of 
teaching full-time. There won't be any *need* for their teaching, and they -- 
who are after all the ones who signed the loan papers -- will be stuck having 
to repay them. 







Gosh I remember that now, the local teachers were really excited because they 
were promised £35,000 a year. And it got scaled down over the next few weeks to 
you get paid but it comes out of what you earn so it was the same as it ever 
was!
 

 I think that was part of the re-certification course where they learned to 
open a bank account and other skills useful in the modern world. A big 
expensive waste of time that was, but no way to complain, you either found the 
many thousands for the course or you didn't teach any more. Charming. Or as 
Nabby would say, a good way of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out

Perhaps you are correct, but what if it turns out that Maharishi was right 
afterall, and the exact manner in which TM is taught is important? 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 On 04/30/2014 02:00 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

   From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:46 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out
 
 
   
 
 It's most likely true that the TMO have a lot of demand at the moment, they 
have a great PR team and loads of celebrities saying they do it and like it. 
Everyone likes celeb's, look at what the Beatles did for the TMO, now they've 
got Russell Brand, how can they fail!
 
 On the other hand, why should we or anyone else *believe* these stories about 
the numbers of people learning TM? It's NOT as if they have a track record for 
telling the truth.









 
 What I was thinking too.  What if there are only 3 TM teachers in NYC?  
Teaching people beej mantras doesn't take much.  Other organizations teach 
meditation at far less a price and it probably didn't cost the teacher $16K to 
learn.  At best maybe $5K and at that they learn far more than a TM teacher 
learns and can give more powerful techniques.  Seven Steps is a child of mid 
20th century.  You don't need that nowadays.  A weekend session would suffice, 
which is what other organizations often do.

Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out

The 2012 form 990 says that 8,093 adults and 1,473 students learned TM in 2012. 
So, 9,566 people were taught TM in 2012, or nearly 800 per month. Not exactly 
the heady days of Merv Griffith where as many as 35,000 were learning per 
month, but the numbers appear to be sustainable, unlike the figures from nearly 
40 years ago. 

 A short while before he died, Peter McWilliams and I exchanged emails. He told 
me that he warned Maharishi that the growth that the TM organization was 
experiencing in the mid-70's was not sustainable, and he thought that Maharishi 
Ayurveda, the TM-Sidhis, etc., were all ways that Maharishi came up with to 
attempt to compensate and keep the organization running.
 

 I'm inclined to agree, except that I believe that Maharishi believed that the 
TM-SIdhis really would destroy darkness of the world (to quote the Shiva 
Samhita) and that Maharishi Ayurveda really would extend people's lifespans 
long enough for them to become enlightened, so they're both auxiliary revenue 
streams AND exactly what he claimed they are (from his perspective at least).
 

 

 L
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :

 I've already reported that in my area activity has increased.  But no, not 
30-40 a day.  Maybe half of that a month. 

 I was responding to Mike's comment that business will be picking up for 
deprogrammers.
 

 Actually, I think Michael would consider that a business opportunity for 
himself.  It seems he always nibbled around the edges of the spiritual game.  
Maybe he'll finally find a workable niche.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote :

 So, what kind of numbers are we talking about? I remember the days of teaching 
30-40 people in a day. 
 On Wednesday, April 30, 2014 5:16 AM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
wrote:
 
   Michael,
 

 I do enjoy your comments.  You regularly ascribe to the TMO vast power.  It's 
cute actually.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 and the organisation itself is a badly run, thinly disguised religious 
dictatorship
 
 Once again Sal, you have nailed it to the wall. The one positive of all these 
new initiations IF they exist is for the deprogrammers who will make a lot of 
money when the innocent victims realize they've been had.

Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out

The video on the website makes it clear that they are looking for young people 
to become TM teachers, not people approaching 60.  

 Besides, if I had $1,500 to spend, I'd get my crumbling tooth addressed. The 
charity dental service in my town wants to charge me 50% and since my cash 
income per month is literally zero, I'm unable to get a crown, or even a 
filling (needs a crown, though they'll probably just pull it as that is what 
low-income clinics do).
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:07 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out
 
 
   Your scenario is much more likely than the TM spin - its amazing how 
shameless they are in screwing even their own people.

 And of course the TM movement gets paid *full price* for the course anyway. 
The people stuck holding the bag and paying for it will be those stupid enough 
to sign up for the bargain TM teacher training course.
 

 I've got an idea. Why doesn't LAWSON sign up for this course? He's the one 
talking about how big a bargain it is, right? And he's never become a TM 
teacher, so this is finally his chance to become one. Then he could keep us 
abreast of all developments as he's assigned to teach somewhere and paid a 
living wage for the two-year indentured servant period he's signed up for. 

 

 But wait...that would imply that *he* actually believed in this offer, 
wouldn't it? And that he's willing to put his financial future on the line to 
prove it. Guess that's right out...  :-)

 
 On Wed, 4/30/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, April 30, 2014, 9:00 AM
 
 From: salyavin808
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To:
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April
 30, 2014 10:46 AM
 Subject: Re:
 [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out
 
 It's most likely true that the TMO have a lot of demand at the
 moment, they have a great PR team and loads of celebrities
 saying they do it and like it. Everyone likes celeb's,
 look at what the Beatles did for the TMO, now they've
 got Russell Brand, how can they fail!
 
 On the
 other hand, why should we or anyone else *believe* these
 stories about the numbers of people learning TM? It's
 NOT as if they have a track record for telling the truth.
 
 Or has everyone forgotten
 the lame attempt to co-opt some Mayan prophecy by claiming
 in press releases that they had gathered a group of
 10,000 Mayans practicing the TMSP? Then they
 published an actual photo of the event
 that showed at most 200 to 300 people. The TM movement lies
 all the time. Why should anyone believe anything their
 fanatical True Believers claim now?
 
 Also, regarding this latest low
 cost attempt to create new TM teachers, does anyone
 remember the *last* time the TM movement promised teachers
 full time work? The teachers had to quit their
 existing jobs and commit to working for the TMO full-time,
 and were guaranteed a livable salary. No one ever got paid,
 and the whole scam was abandoned within a few months and
 never mentioned again. My suspicion is that this is exactly
 what is going to happen to the poor schmucks who believe the
 sales spiel and take out loans for this course, believing
 that the loans will be written off after a
 couple of years of teaching full-time. There won't be
 any *need* for their teaching, and they -- who are after all
 the ones who signed the loan papers -- will be stuck having
 to repay them.

Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out

Could be anything, from a need to prop up some project elsewhere, to a need to 
pay off the lawsuit against MUM that almost bankrupt the school. 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jedi_spock@... wrote :

 
 

  From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@...


Your scenario is much more likely than the TM spin - its amazing how 
shameless they are in screwing even their own people.


I've heard a few stories about how TM tutors were told to 
raise donations to build their TM centers. A few years after 
the centers were built, the TM-org sold the places for no 
apparent reason!!



---  turquoiseb@... wrote :


 And of course the TM movement gets paid *full price* for the course anyway. 
The people stuck holding the bag and paying for it will be those stupid enough 
to sign up for the bargain TM teacher training course.
 

 I've got an idea. Why doesn't LAWSON sign up for this course? He's the one 
talking about how big a bargain it is, right? And he's never become a TM 
teacher, so this is finally his chance to become one. Then he could keep us 
abreast of all developments as he's assigned to teach somewhere and paid a 
living wage for the two-year indentured servant period he's signed up for. 

 

 But wait...that would imply that *he* actually believed in this offer, 
wouldn't it? And that he's willing to put his financial future on the line to 
prove it. Guess that's right out...  :-)

 
 On Wed, 4/30/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, April 30, 2014, 9:00 AM
 
 From: salyavin808
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To:
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April
 30, 2014 10:46 AM
 Subject: Re:
 [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out
 
 It's most likely true that the TMO have a lot of demand at the
 moment, they have a great PR team and loads of celebrities
 saying they do it and like it. Everyone likes celeb's,
 look at what the Beatles did for the TMO, now they've
 got Russell Brand, how can they fail!
 
 On the
 other hand, why should we or anyone else *believe* these
 stories about the numbers of people learning TM? It's
 NOT as if they have a track record for telling the truth.
 
 Or has everyone forgotten
 the lame attempt to co-opt some Mayan prophecy by claiming
 in press releases that they had gathered a group of
 10,000 Mayans practicing the TMSP? Then they
 published an actual photo of the event
 that showed at most 200 to 300 people. The TM movement lies
 all the time. Why should anyone believe anything their
 fanatical True Believers claim now?
 
 Also, regarding this latest low
 cost attempt to create new TM teachers, does anyone
 remember the *last* time the TM movement promised teachers
 full time work? The teachers had to quit their
 existing jobs and commit to working for the TMO full-time,
 and were guaranteed a livable salary. No one ever got paid,
 and the whole scam was abandoned within a few months and
 never mentioned again. My suspicion is that this is exactly
 what is going to happen to the poor schmucks who believe the
 sales spiel and take out loans for this course, believing
 that the loans will be written off after a
 couple of years of teaching full-time. There won't be
 any *need* for their teaching, and they -- who are after all
 the ones who signed the loan papers -- will be stuck having
 to repay them.

Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out

Everyone uses the same hand gestures and body language, as well as 
tone-of-voice, when teaching brand-x meditation? 
L
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 I've pointed out many a time that  the way TM is taught is NOT UNIQUE.  The 
method predates TM.
 
 On 04/30/2014 01:18 PM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   Perhaps you are correct, but what if it turns out that Maharishi was right 
afterall, and the exact manner in which TM is taught is important?
 

 L
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 On 04/30/2014 02:00 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

   From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:46 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out
 
 
   
 
 It's most likely true that the TMO have a lot of demand at the moment, they 
have a great PR team and loads of celebrities saying they do it and like it. 
Everyone likes celeb's, look at what the Beatles did for the TMO, now they've 
got Russell Brand, how can they fail!
 
 On the other hand, why should we or anyone else *believe* these stories about 
the numbers of people learning TM? It's NOT as if they have a track record for 
telling the truth.









 
 What I was thinking too.  What if there are only 3 TM teachers in NYC?  
Teaching people beej mantras doesn't take much.  Other organizations teach 
meditation at far less a price and it probably didn't cost the teacher $16K to 
learn.  At best maybe $5K and at that they learn far more than a TM teacher 
learns and can give more powerful techniques.  Seven Steps is a child of mid 
20th century.  You don't need that nowadays.  A weekend session would suffice, 
which is what other organizations often do.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Alfred, Lord Tennyson's mantra

I didn't see the words Transcendental Meditation in there any where, and how 
did you miss the memo about Craig Pearson's new book describing experiences of 
transcendence throughout the ages? 

 For that matter, were you asleep in lectures where Maharishi explained that TM 
was a rediscovering of something that had been around forever?
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote :

 Victorian poet Tennyson seems to have stumbled upon TM before MMY took out the 
copyright on the name. Take this quote of his:
 

 A kind of walking trance I have frequently had, quite up from boyhood, when I 
have been all alone. This has often come upon me through repeating my own name 
to myself silently till, all at once, as it were, out of the intensity of the 
consciousness of individuality, the individuality itself seemed to dissolve and 
fade away into boundless being; and this not a confused state, but the clearest 
of the clearest, the surest of the surest, the weirdest of the weirdest, 
utterly beyond words, where death was an almost laughable impossibility, the 
loss of personality (if so it were) seeming no extinction, but the only true 
life.
 

 I love that line: where death was an almost laughable impossibility.
 

 Here's a (clearly autobiographical) passage from Ancient Sage . . . 
 

 And more, my son! for more than once when I
Sat all alone, revolving in myself
The word that is the symbol of myself,
The mortal limit of the Self was loosed,
And past into the Nameless, as a cloud
Melts into heaven. I touch'd my limbs, the limbs
Were strange, not mine--and yet no shade of doubt,
But utter clearness, and thro' loss of Self
The gain of such large life as match'd with ours
Were Sun to spark--unshadowable in words,
Themselves but shadows of a shadow-world.

 

 
  And here's another quote to show how vitally important the experience was to 
him:
 

 Yes, it is true there are moments when the flesh is nothing to me, when I 
feel and know the flesh to be the vision, God and the spiritual—the only real 
and true. Depend upon it, the spiritual is the real; it belongs to one more 
than the hand and the foot. You may tell me that my hand and my foot are only 
imaginary symbols of my existence. I could believe you, but you never, never 
can convince me that the I is not an eternal reality, and that the spiritual is 
not the true and real part of me.
 

 I wonder what his mantra was: 
 The word that is the symbol of myself and Repeating my own name to myself 
silently.
 

 Did he repeat Alf or Alfie or what? AaalPh sounds like it 
would make an acceptable mantra! We need some clever chap to create a universal 
mantra program on the Web. You type in the syllables and the program lets you 
know what effect the vibrations would have on your nervous system.

Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out

The ones that every TM teacher I ever saw uses when teachign. 

 The ones learned in checker training.
 

 Etc.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 What hand gestures, body language and tone-of-voice?
 
 On 04/30/2014 05:29 PM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   Everyone uses the same hand gestures and body language, as well as 
tone-of-voice, when teaching brand-x meditation?
 
 L
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 I've pointed out many a time that  the way TM is taught is NOT UNIQUE.  The 
method predates TM.
 
 On 04/30/2014 01:18 PM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   Perhaps you are correct, but what if it turns out that Maharishi was right 
afterall, and the exact manner in which TM is taught is important?
 

 L
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 On 04/30/2014 02:00 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

   From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:46 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out
 
 
   
 
 It's most likely true that the TMO have a lot of demand at the moment, they 
have a great PR team and loads of celebrities saying they do it and like it. 
Everyone likes celeb's, look at what the Beatles did for the TMO, now they've 
got Russell Brand, how can they fail!
 
 On the other hand, why should we or anyone else *believe* these stories about 
the numbers of people learning TM? It's NOT as if they have a track record for 
telling the truth.









 
 What I was thinking too.  What if there are only 3 TM teachers in NYC?  
Teaching people beej mantras doesn't take much.  Other organizations teach 
meditation at far less a price and it probably didn't cost the teacher $16K to 
learn.  At best maybe $5K and at that they learn far more than a TM teacher 
learns and can give more powerful techniques.  Seven Steps is a child of mid 
20th century.  You don't need that nowadays.  A weekend session would suffice, 
which is what other organizations often do.

Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out

2014-04-29 Thread LEnglish5

The upcoming TM teacher training course will last 5 months and cost $16,500.  

 BUT...
 

 Between scholarships and forgivable loans, that $16,500 can get reduced to 
$1,500 for the entire thing.
 

 They are REALLY interested in people, especially young people, becoming TM 
teachers.
 

 

 That's the bottom line: they WANT people to become TM teachers and the 
effective cost can be 90% less than the list price, and that is not 
misdirection, evasive answers and outright lies... It's just the bottom line.
 

 http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html 
http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html

 

 

 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 when one has heard as much misdirection, evasive answers and outright lies 
from the TMO, one is not impressed by this.
 
 On Wed, 4/30/14, Richard J. Williams punditster@... mailto:punditster@... 
wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] New York TM teaching is maxed out
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, April 30, 2014, 1:39 AM
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On 4/29/2014 7:22 PM, srijau@... mailto:srijau@... wrote:
 
  also in several other parts of the US it is not
 possible to keep up 
 
  with demand with the current amount of teachers.
 
 
 
 This won't be something good is happening news for MJ or
 Barry or Sally. 
 
 LoL!
 
 
 
 ---
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised

Fred Travis doesn't publish research on Maharishi AYurveda that I am aware of. 

 And I was not defending any claims made anywhere by MMY or anyone else (other 
than Travis' specific findings in his research, which are always, of course, 
subject to challenge by replicating his research).
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 

 

I love the way you say merely wrong about something. But you are a master at 
making all this insanity seem reasonable. 

 What you have to remember is that for most people in the TMO Marshy was 
incapable of being wrong about something and they act accordingly no matter how 
contradictory or just plain stupid his ideas were.
 

 There are two important  things here. First is that MJ is right, the TMO tries 
on all sorts of crap just to make money. None of it is tested in anyway other 
than in having a few true believers say they had a good experience while 
doing it. Take MVVT for instance, a masterstroke in that it depends entirely 
for it's perceived credibility on people having read King Tony's book which 
came out a few years earlier.
 

 I was on a long rounding course when MVVT was introduced and was to be tried 
on people at a discount price to get feedback for the brochures. I predicted to 
all who would listen (not many) that it would work out to have the same 
effectiveness as a placebo, I thought it might be better slightly because of 
the self-selecting group of volunteers but no, a placebo it is. Was it removed 
from the Marshy catalogue of products? No. 
 

 And nor was anything else that gets sold based on the myth of vedic 
superiority, like yagyas or just plain ayurveda itself. I still get monthly 
notices that an expert in this world's greatest system of natural healthcare 
is visiting the country with his time tested formulas for perfect health. The 
fact that the TMO has been sued many times because of poisonous medicines isn't 
mentioned anywhere. And the first thing any sensible ayurvedic doctor does when 
a patient gets ill is recommend they go to a specialist! They often ignore that 
advice and effectively kill themselves by relying on rasayanas but that's 
brainwashing for you.
 

 You couldn't make this stuff up. But people really honestly believe it still 
regardless of the contrary evidence. At best it's folie a deux, at worst they 
know damn well that Marshy products, like yagyas or amrit kalash, aren't any 
better than not doing anything at all and should quit it.
 

 

 PS Time tested. What does that even mean?
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

 Well, enlightened is such a vague term. 

 Fred Travis' studies on enlightened TMers (preliminary CC) don't assert that 
they are perfect, only that they report a certain kind of internal experience 
and that there is a physiological pattern associated with the self-reports. It 
says nothing about whether they are correct in everything that they do.
 

 That was Maharishi's thing: to assert that enlightened people (meeting his 
definition) were going to be perfect in some way.
 

 As for spin-doctoring, this assertion from you has no basis in fact, but is 
merely your desire to show that Maharishi was a bad person, rather than merely 
wrong about something:
 

 The more likely cause of these folks deaths are that Marshy
didn't know a damn thing about ayurveda and simply used
it as another spring board to financial comfort for Marshy
and family. The fact that he used human lives in his hunt
for fame and comfort is I am sure incidental to Indian
sensibilities but seems rather cavalier to us in the
West.

 

 L

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 How can that be if he was enlightened? And what part of my erudite writing do 
you feel is spin doctored?
 
 On Sun, 4/27/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... 
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, April 27, 2014, 4:03 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 The most likely cause of the deaths is that
 Ayurveda, Maharishi or otherwise, isn't as perfect as
 Maharishi thought it was.
 The rest is spin-doctoring on your
 part.
 L
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@... wrote :
 
 Refined mercury is
 not used in every single ayurvedic formula for every ailment
 under the sun. Given the fact that lots of terminally ill
 patients with various kinds of ailments went to this clinic,
 it is unlikely that every formula used called for mercury
 and as you know ayurveda doesn't just rely on herbal
 formulas - there are a lot of techniques that traditional
 ayurved uses that don't involve herbs at all such as oil
 pulling routines. 
 
 
 
 The PR that was always done on Maharishi Ayurveda since its
 first unveiling in 1986

Re: [FairfieldLife] Sarah Palin Talks Tough to NRA

The problem with Bernie Sanders (and I respect him highly) is that he is a
Socialist in both name and attitude. If you want the Right Wing to come out
in droves in the next election, put a self-described Socialist (note capital-S)
on the Democratic ticket.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804E2DB1030F932A15752C0A9619C8B63pagewanted=all

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

Biden and Clinton are establishment candidates. Nothing will change if
elected. There is a move to get Sanders to change from Independent to Democrat
since he has said he is willing to run. Of course if he did get as far as the
WH the first day there would be a come to Jesus session with him. I'm very
cynical about this country because it has run it's course with capitalism which
has been exploited to the point absurdity. We now live in a plutocracy.

On 04/28/2014 12:30 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote:

Bhairitu,

Since we live in this country, we'd to accept that the president is the leader
and the commander-in-chief, as stated in the USA constiturion. I don't know if
Sanders and Warren are interested in running for president. They may be
waiting to see who the actual candidates are before making a decision.

As of now, it appears that Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton are the only credible
candidates that the Democrats have. But due to her chart, I'd advise Hillary
not to run as mentioned earlier on this thread.

Come to think of it, I should research Biden's birth chart too. Does anyone
here have his birth information?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote :

Do Presidents make any difference? They're mainly just car salesmen for the
same corporate elite. How about a Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren ticket?
That might actually sell well to the millennials who you have to consider.

On 04/27/2014 07:10 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote:

According to Hillary's jyotish chart, she will be running a weak period of
the Sun starting in 2015. It would be better for her to save her time and
effort rather than run for the presidency.

I haven't seen Elizabeth Warren's chart. Does anyone know of her birth data?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote :

On 4/27/2014 4:50 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote:

She appears to be saying,Vote for me in 2016. What do you think?

Let's see, the Dems have Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.

The Repugs have Sarah Palin, Paul Ryan, Chirs Christie, Ted Cruz, Marco
Rubio, Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley, Rick Perry and Rand Paul.

Oh, I forgot: The Dems have Elizabeth Warren.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/27/sarah-palin-waterboarding_n_5222665.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp0592

---
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protection is active.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Watch David Lynch’s hypnoti c new video

He says uniformly blissful from the very first one. 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 One wonder if this is what David Lynch's meditations are like?  :-D 
 
 On 04/28/2014 02:12 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
 
   Mindy Jones is haunted by Wicker Man-esque masked figures in Moby’s 
‘reversion’ of ‘The Big Dream’ 
 
http://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/19712/1/watch-david-lynch-s-hypnotic-new-video
 
http://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/19712/1/watch-david-lynch-s-hypnotic-new-video

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi interview excerpts

40. In the first stage of pranayama, the body of the Yogi begins to perspire. 
When it perspires, he should rub it
 well, otherwise the body of the Yogi loses its dhatu (humours). 
 41. In the second stage, there takes place the trembling of the body; in the 
third, the jumping about like a frog; and when the practice becomes greater, 
the adept walks in the air.
 Vayusiddhi.
 42. When the Yogi, though remaining in padmasana, can raise in the air and 
leave the ground, then know that
 he has gained vayusiddhi (success over air), which destroys the darkness of 
the world. -Shiva Samhita III 40-42
 

 

 http://www.yogastudies.org/wp-content/uploads/Shiva_Samhita.pdf 
http://www.yogastudies.org/wp-content/uploads/Shiva_Samhita.pdf

 

 

 So yes, it really will solve all the ills of the world, at least according to 
the shiva samhita.
 

 

 L

 
 
 

 
 
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 4/28/2014 8:47 AM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote:

 MAHARISHI: What is a snake oil?
 REPORTER: A panacea. Something that will solve all the ills of the world. 
 MAHARISHI: Then this is it! 
 Snake oil and levitation - now that's a program I could go for!
 

 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised


 You know as much as I do: they built this massive 5-star facility that was The 
Raj on steroids, and invited terminal patients from all over the world to come 
and get cured. 
 

 They died. Virtually all of them died.
 

 Not surprising since only the absolute, most hopeless cases were supposed to 
come in the first place as their last hope. It was meant to show the utter 
superiority of Maharishi Ayurveda Done Right™ to the World. And...
 

 They died. Virtually all of them died.
 

 End of story.
 

 Maharishi told the Movement to just walk away from such a place of death and 
they did.
 

 

 The place is now just ruins.
 

 L
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 I have never heard this story of the failure of TM ayurveda - got any details?
 
 On Sat, 4/26/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... 
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 5:15 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I don't speak any Indian language, but none of
 the English reports I have seen (including the links below)
 say that Girish has that kind of wealth, only that he is
 part of a 12-member committee that has control of that
 wealth (12,000 acres).
 And of course, if you actually look
 at the figures, the estimates of how much the land is worth
 is obviously exaggerated: the largest single item is the old
 Maharishi Ayurveda complex which now lies in utter
 disrepair. 
 In its
 hey-day, it was meant to be The Raj on a grand scale: a
 complex of hospitals and hostels with 3200 5-star hotel
 rooms meant to provide an absolutely nourishing environment
 for those unfortunate people who were deemed
 terminal by Western medicine but could be saved
 due to the miraculous superiority of Ayurvedic
 treatments.
 When the
 masses of terminally ill patients did what Western treatment
 said would happened, and died by the thousands, Maharishi
 told the TM movement to walk away from the halls
 of death (or words to that effect) and the complex fell into
 complete ruin.
 It
 ain't worth $1.5 billion and there's no way it will
 ever be because it wasn't built as a 5-star *resort* but
 as a 5-star *hospital* and there's no way 3200 tourists
 at-a-time are going to want to pay 5-star prices to say in
 that particular region for any length of time. Without the
 promised miracle cures of Ayurveda, it is a completely
 worthless venture.
 
 L

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised

The Raj is in the USA. We're talking about the Maharishi AYurveda facility in 
India that the press says is worth $1.5 billion US. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :

 On 4/27/2014 4:29 AM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
  The place is now just ruins.
 
 Google Earth view of the Raj at Vedic City:
 
 http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/images/raj.JPG 
http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/images/raj.JPG
 
 
 
 ---
 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
protection is active.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised

The most likely cause of the deaths is that Ayurveda, Maharishi or otherwise, 
isn't as perfect as Maharishi thought it was. 

 The rest is spin-doctoring on your part.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Refined mercury is not used in every single ayurvedic formula for every 
ailment under the sun. Given the fact that lots of terminally ill patients with 
various kinds of ailments went to this clinic, it is unlikely that every 
formula used called for mercury and as you know ayurveda doesn't just rely on 
herbal formulas - there are a lot of techniques that traditional ayurved uses 
that don't involve herbs at all such as oil pulling routines. 
 
 The PR that was always done on Maharishi Ayurveda since its first unveiling in 
1986 was that Marshy was able, with his enlightened awareness to cognize the 
full value of natural law in the now fragmented and incomplete practice of 
ayurveda, thus ayurveda was re-enlivened in terms of its fundamental 
principles by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in collaboration with leading Ayurvedic 
physicians and restored to its completeness.
 
 I heard Bevan say many a time at MIU that Marshy's enlightened awareness 
enabled him to cognize all the various deep and subtle aspects of ayurveda that 
had been missing for centuries in India and thus ahd restored ayurveda to its 
fullness. 
 
 If that were the case, it seems clear that it would be impossible to for there 
to be a lack of knowledge or technique on how to refine the mercury to the 
proper level. Also given the fact that in India they still use heavy metals 
that have been refined in various ayurvedic formulas with no apparent ill 
effect and the fact that ayurvedic big shots like Balraj Maharshi, Dwivedi and 
especially Triguna were working with Marshy, seems impossible that such lack 
of technique could exist, although in Triguna's case everyone I ever heard from 
who had a consultation with him said it was a blast to see him especially in 
India where his followers would run around like Keystone cops doing his bidding 
cause he was so famous, yet none of them were ever cured of their ailments by 
his herbal prescriptions.
 
 The more likely cause of these folks deaths are that Marshy didn't know a damn 
thing about ayurveda and simply used it as another spring board to financial 
comfort for Marshy and family. The fact that he used human lives in his hunt 
for fame and comfort is I am sure incidental to Indian sensibilities but seems 
rather cavalier to us in the West.
 
 On Sun, 4/27/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, April 27, 2014, 12:16 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Ayurved has some very powerful tools for boosting
 the immunesystem and for rejuvenation. Triguna was behind
 the efforts for terminally ill patients so the question is
 why it wasn't more successful. From what I've heard
 it boils down to the failure in purifying mercury which is
 vital in many of the recipy's. Maharishi through
 millions on this particular project and had top Vaidyas
 working on this since early 80's in Seelisberg. The day
 that is safely possible Ayurveda will revamp medicine.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 LEnglish5@... wrote :
 
 
 You
 know as much as I do: they built this massive 5-star
 facility that was The Raj on steroids, and invited terminal
 patients from all over the world to come and get
 cured. 
 They
 died. Virtually all of them died.
 Not
 surprising since only the absolute, most hopeless cases were
 supposed to come in the first place as their last hope. It
 was meant to show the utter superiority of Maharishi
 Ayurveda Done Right™ to the World. And...
 They
 died. Virtually all of them died.
 End
 of story.
 Maharishi
 told the Movement to just walk away from such a
 place of death and they did.
 
 The
 place is now just ruins.
 L
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@... wrote :
 
 I
 have never heard this story of the failure of TM ayurveda -
 got any details?
 
 
 On Sat, 4/26/14,
 LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is
 to be praised
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 5:15 PM
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I don't speak any Indian language, but none of
 
 the English reports I have seen (including the links
 below)
 
 say that Girish has that kind of wealth, only that he is
 
 part of a 12-member committee that has control of that
 
 wealth (12,000 acres).
 
 And of course, if you actually look
 
 at the figures, the estimates

Re: [FairfieldLife] Crazy stuff here. but

My friend Anoop Chondola is the nephew of one of the people who helped select 
Gurudev to be Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath.  About 45 years ago, he visited 
jyotirmath and had an audience with the Shankaracharya (when asked which one? 
he chose the one living in Gurudev's ashram). In the course of his visit, he 
asked the man What about the 'maharishi' who is with the Beatles? Is he 
legitimate? 

 The response was: Let me put it to you this way: he would have been my first 
choice as my successor but they wouldn't allow it due to the caste laws.
 

 So, you can say what you want about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, but the attitude my 
friend formed about MMY was informed not merely by talking with the 
Shankaracharya who got in trouble for being favorable towards MMY, but in 
conversations with his uncle, as well.
 

 That attitude pops up in conversations in his latest book, In the Himalayan 
Nights, http://www.amazon.com/In-Himalayan-Nights-Anoop-Chandola/dp/0982998708 
http://www.amazon.com/In-Himalayan-Nights-Anoop-Chandola/dp/0982998708
 

 (see especially page 190).
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 I don't think Maharishi even attained acharya level.  There are many yogis who 
outranked him.  He was a pop guru for the masses.
 
 On 04/27/2014 10:06 AM, srijau@... mailto:srijau@... wrote:
 
   all kinds of crazy stuff being posted here
 
 

 you can see posts from the close disciples of the greatest spiritual teacher 
to ever walk the earth, Maharishi Mahesha Yogi here...
 
 
 https://www.facebook.com/john.cowhig.54?fref=photo 
https://www.facebook.com/john.cowhig.54?fref=photo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised

Well, enlightened is such a vague term. 

 Fred Travis' studies on enlightened TMers (preliminary CC) don't assert that 
they are perfect, only that they report a certain kind of internal experience 
and that there is a physiological pattern associated with the self-reports. It 
says nothing about whether they are correct in everything that they do.
 

 That was Maharishi's thing: to assert that enlightened people (meeting his 
definition) were going to be perfect in some way.
 

 As for spin-doctoring, this assertion from you has no basis in fact, but is 
merely your desire to show that Maharishi was a bad person, rather than merely 
wrong about something:
 

 The more likely cause of these folks deaths are that Marshy
didn't know a damn thing about ayurveda and simply used
it as another spring board to financial comfort for Marshy
and family. The fact that he used human lives in his hunt
for fame and comfort is I am sure incidental to Indian
sensibilities but seems rather cavalier to us in the
West.

 

 L

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 How can that be if he was enlightened? And what part of my erudite writing do 
you feel is spin doctored?
 
 On Sun, 4/27/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... 
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, April 27, 2014, 4:03 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 The most likely cause of the deaths is that
 Ayurveda, Maharishi or otherwise, isn't as perfect as
 Maharishi thought it was.
 The rest is spin-doctoring on your
 part.
 L
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@... wrote :
 
 Refined mercury is
 not used in every single ayurvedic formula for every ailment
 under the sun. Given the fact that lots of terminally ill
 patients with various kinds of ailments went to this clinic,
 it is unlikely that every formula used called for mercury
 and as you know ayurveda doesn't just rely on herbal
 formulas - there are a lot of techniques that traditional
 ayurved uses that don't involve herbs at all such as oil
 pulling routines. 
 
 
 
 The PR that was always done on Maharishi Ayurveda since its
 first unveiling in 1986 was that Marshy was able, with his
 enlightened awareness to cognize the full value of
 natural law in the now fragmented and incomplete
 practice of ayurveda, thus ayurveda was re-enlivened
 in terms of its fundamental principles by Maharishi Mahesh
 Yogi in collaboration with leading Ayurvedic physicians and
 restored to its completeness.
 
 
 
 I heard Bevan say many a time at MIU that Marshy's
 enlightened awareness enabled him to cognize all the various
 deep and subtle aspects of ayurveda that had been missing
 for centuries in India and thus ahd restored ayurveda to its
 fullness. 
 
 
 
 If that were the case, it seems clear that it would be
 impossible to for there to be a lack of knowledge or
 technique on how to refine the mercury to the proper level.
 Also given the fact that in India they still use heavy
 metals that have been refined in various ayurvedic formulas
 with no apparent ill effect and the fact that ayurvedic big
 shots like Balraj Maharshi, Dwivedi and especially Triguna
 were working with Marshy, seems impossible that
 such lack of technique could exist, although in
 Triguna's case everyone I ever heard from who had a
 consultation with him said it was a blast to see him
 especially in India where his followers would run around
 like Keystone cops doing his bidding cause he was so famous,
 yet none of them were ever cured of their ailments by his
 herbal prescriptions.
 
 
 
 The more likely cause of these folks deaths are that Marshy
 didn't know a damn thing about ayurveda and simply used
 it as another spring board to financial comfort for Marshy
 and family. The fact that he used human lives in his hunt
 for fame and comfort is I am sure incidental to Indian
 sensibilities but seems rather cavalier to us in the
 West.
 
 
 
 On Sun, 4/27/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji
 is to be praised
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Sunday, April 27, 2014, 12:16 PM
 

 
 Ayurved has some very powerful tools for boosting
 
 the immunesystem and for rejuvenation. Triguna was behind
 
 the efforts for terminally ill patients so the question
 is
 
 why it wasn't more successful. From what I've
 heard
 
 it boils down to the failure in purifying mercury which
 is
 
 vital in many of the recipy's. Maharishi through
 
 millions on this particular project and had top Vaidyas
 
 working on this since early 80's in Seelisberg. The
 day
 
 that is safely possible

[FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised

2014-04-26 Thread LEnglish5

I don't speak any Indian language, but none of the English reports I have seen
(including the links below) say that Girish has that kind of wealth, only that
he is part of a 12-member committee that has control of that wealth (12,000
acres).

And of course, if you actually look at the figures, the estimates of how much
the land is worth is obviously exaggerated: the largest single item is the old
Maharishi Ayurveda complex which now lies in utter disrepair.

In its hey-day, it was meant to be The Raj on a grand scale: a complex of
hospitals and hostels with 3200 5-star hotel rooms meant to provide an
absolutely nourishing environment for those unfortunate people who were deemed
terminal by Western medicine but could be saved due to the miraculous
superiority of Ayurvedic treatments.

When the masses of terminally ill patients did what Western treatment said
would happened, and died by the thousands, Maharishi told the TM movement to
walk away from the halls of death (or words to that effect) and the complex
fell into complete ruin.

It ain't worth $1.5 billion and there's no way it will ever be because it
wasn't built as a 5-star *resort* but as a 5-star *hospital* and there's no way
3200 tourists at-a-time are going to want to pay 5-star prices to say in that
particular region for any length of time. Without the promised miracle cures of
Ayurveda, it is a completely worthless venture.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

Maharishi through billions at the guy but only 8% of His assets. He is after
all family and he deserved a chance. It was a personal Yagya from His side.
Everything else went to the Brahmananda Saraswathi Trust.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

... according to some publication and report Girish Chandra Varma(GCV) owns
himself only 7000 crore worth of property. (7000 crore rupees or 1.5 Billion
US )...
http://www.nriapnews.com/usnewsvideo.php?vidtype=10idx=vardaat-girish-chandra-varmas-property-2014-01-02

http://www.nriapnews.com/usnewsvideo.php?vidtype=10idx=vardaat-girish-chandra-varmas-property-2014-01-02
http://www.indianrealestateforum.com/real-estate-noida/t-ats-one-hamlet-noida-9981-page272.html

http://www.indianrealestateforum.com/real-estate-noida/t-ats-one-hamlet-noida-9981-page272.html
http://business.highbeam.com/435215/article-1P2-33094038/yogi-disciples-contort-his-legacy-just-four-years-after

http://business.highbeam.com/435215/article-1P2-33094038/yogi-disciples-contort-his-legacy-just-four-years-after
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/maharishi-mahesh-yogi-rs-6-crore-fortune/1/201925.html.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/maharishi-mahesh-yogi-rs-6-crore-fortune/1/201925.html.

...tax records?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

By the way, why does everyone say that GIrish Varma is a billionaire? Has
anyone seen his bank accounts or tax records?

L
just wait for result of land grab charges and investigation
BTW people who loves MMY are trying to distance themselves from him for
yearsyou seems to be quite out of touch Lord L.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

What *you* have said doesn't make any sense at all.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

Girish is a billionaire. It doesn't make much sense that he would have to
resort to threats to have sex.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

Dunno anything about Girish Varma except that many people who are hostile to
Maharishi are also hostile to him. The accusation of rape is interesting
because the behavior allegedly lasted for about 15 years, and involved the wife
of his assistant being invited to accompany her husband on trips so that Varma
would be able to access the room of the husband and wife whenever he wanted
while the husband was doing errands for Varma.

According to the wife, this allowed Varma to have sex with her over a period
of 15 years whenever her husband went out. The wife kept her mouth shut on the
threat that her husband and she would lose their jobs if she said anything. The
husband says that he knew nothing of the arrangement until about a year or so
ago when he was fired, and his wife was fired, thereupon she confessed the
arrangement to him and they went to the police.

This is India we are talking about, so I nave no idea how plausible the
scenario is within that culture.

Re: [FairfieldLife] New Book on Meditating Fairfield, Iowa

2014-04-24 Thread LEnglish5

Whatever we agree with is always excellent. 

 The question of whether or not he should have learned TM is an interesting one 
though. What you are implying is that he would have lost his objectivity by 
going through the TM course. Are you really afraid of that or are you afraid 
that he would realize that certain criticisms of TM aren't valid?
 

 There are plenty of criticisms that remain valid whether or not you learn TM, 
of course.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 I have heard the same complaint and in fact in the beginning of the book, Mr. 
Weber says he was taken to task by the meditators for not doing TM as he did 
his research - but for my money, he did the right thing to remain objective - I 
haven't finished reading it, but so far its excellent.
 
 On Thu, 4/24/14, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... 
mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] New Book on Meditating Fairfield, Iowa
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Thursday, April 24, 2014, 1:06 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Geoff, are you a meditator? Nice review. I
 read another reviewer
 that says of the new book that while heavily footnoted the
 book and the
 author suffers from the lack of back-stories and too much
 objectivity
 as a straight journalist. However, I am glad a real and
 professional
 journalist came along to the story now while so many
 interviews could
 be collected from the first, or eye-witness generation. 
 There have
 been other authors and academics show up looking to write
 their story
 of it in their way. By contrast with them I have been
 wont-ing for a
 real journalist to show up for a long time. Joseph Weber
 appears is
 that journalist. It [meditating Fairfield, Iowa] is a
 fabulous
 story in human nature. The scholarly world is just waking
 up to it. 
 This new book will help bring more qualified people to it
 and other
 books will likely follow too. We've been in Fairfield
 as a
 meditating community for over 40 years and that community is
 not
 going to leave anytime soon. The story is not over, -Buck
 in the
 Dome 
 
 The
 Fairfield Meditating Community:
 
 
 
 “We are a group of people who
 have come together and created a community for a
 transcendentally
 important common purpose, which of course is to practice the
 Transcendental Meditation program and the TM-Sidhi program
 together
 as a group, for the sake of bringing coherence to national
 and world
 consciousness based on balancing labor and leisure to
 meditate while
 working together for the benefit of the community. Our
 Super-Radiance
 meditating community includes families of all the
 TM-Meditators and
 TM-Sidhas in the Fairfield, Vedic City and Jefferson County
 area.”
 geoff.gilpin writes:
 Hi,
 everyone. Michael Jackson already mentioned my blog (thanks,
 Michael!), but I thought I's stop in with a personal
 invitation. I hope you'll all pay a visit to Reason and
 Magic, Where Skeptics and Believers Find Common
 Ground, at geoffgilpin.com. Discussion topics include
 psychedelic science and culture, drug policy, and skeptical
 mysticism. There's even some stuff about the TM
 movement, including my review of Joseph Weber's new book
 Transcendental Meditation in America: How a New Age
 Movement Remade a Small Town in Iowa.

Re: [FairfieldLife] New Book on Meditating Fairfield, Iowa

2014-04-24 Thread LEnglish5

Well, the people who complained obviously thought it was critical, while you, 
who are exceedingly critical, thought it was excellent. It seems a reasonable 
assumption to assume that it was critical in the eyes of the people who were 
complaining... 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 what makes you think the book is critical? Read it yourself and see what it 
is. 
 
 On Thu, 4/24/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... 
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] New Book on Meditating Fairfield, Iowa
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Thursday, April 24, 2014, 1:40 PM
 

 
 Whatever we agree with is always
 excellent.
 The question of whether or not he should have
 learned TM is an interesting one though. What you are
 implying is that he would have lost his
 objectivity by going through the TM course. Are
 you really afraid of that or are you afraid that he would
 realize that certain criticisms of TM aren't
 valid?
 There are plenty of criticisms that remain valid
 whether or not you learn TM, of course.
 L
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote :
 
 I have heard the
 same complaint and in fact in the beginning of the book, Mr.
 Weber says he was taken to task by the meditators for not
 doing TM as he did his research - but for my money, he did
 the right thing to remain objective - I haven't finished
 reading it, but so far its excellent.
 
 
 On Thu, 4/24/14, dhamiltony2k5@...
 dhamiltony2k5@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] New Book on Meditating Fairfield,
 Iowa
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Thursday, April 24, 2014, 1:06 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Geoff, are you a meditator? Nice review. I
 
 read another reviewer
 
 that says of the new book that while heavily footnoted the
 
 book and the
 
 author suffers from the lack of back-stories and too much
 
 objectivity
 
 as a straight journalist. However, I am glad a real and
 
 professional
 
 journalist came along to the story now while so many
 
 interviews could
 
 be collected from the first, or eye-witness generation. 
 
 There have
 
 been other authors and academics show up looking to write
 
 their story
 
 of it in their way. By contrast with them I have been
 
 wont-ing for a
 
 real journalist to show up for a long time. Joseph Weber
 
 appears is
 
 that journalist. It [meditating Fairfield, Iowa] is a
 
 fabulous
 
 story in human nature. The scholarly world is just waking
 
 up to it. 
 
 This new book will help bring more qualified people to it
 
 and other
 
 books will likely follow too. We've been in Fairfield
 
 as a
 
 meditating community for over 40 years and that community
 is
 
 not
 
 going to leave anytime soon. The story is not over, 
 -Buck
 
 in the
 
 Dome 
 
 
 
 The
 
 Fairfield Meditating Community:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 “We are a group of people who
 
 have come together and created a community for a
 
 transcendentally
 
 important common purpose, which of course is to practice
 the
 
 Transcendental Meditation program and the TM-Sidhi program
 
 together
 
 as a group, for the sake of bringing coherence to national
 
 and world
 
 consciousness based on balancing labor and leisure to
 
 meditate while
 
 working together for the benefit of the community. Our
 
 Super-Radiance
 
 meditating community includes families of all the
 
 TM-Meditators and
 
 TM-Sidhas in the Fairfield, Vedic City and Jefferson County
 
 area.”
 
 geoff.gilpin writes:
 
 Hi,
 
 everyone. Michael Jackson already mentioned my blog
 (thanks,
 
 Michael!), but I thought I's stop in with a personal
 
 invitation. I hope you'll all pay a visit to Reason and
 
 Magic, Where Skeptics and Believers Find Common
 
 Ground, at geoffgilpin.com. Discussion topics include
 
 psychedelic science and culture, drug policy, and skeptical
 
 mysticism. There's even some stuff about the TM
 
 movement, including my review of Joseph Weber's new
 book
 
 Transcendental Meditation in America: How a New Age
 
 Movement Remade a Small Town in Iowa.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised?

2014-04-23 Thread LEnglish5

Dunno anything about Girish Varma except that many people who are hostile to 
Maharishi are also hostile to him. The accusation of rape is interesting 
because the behavior allegedly lasted for about 15 years, and involved the wife 
of his assistant being invited to accompany her husband on trips so that Varma 
would be able to access the room of the husband and wife whenever he wanted 
while the husband was doing errands for Varma. 

 According to the wife, this allowed Varma to have sex with her over a period 
of 15 years whenever her husband went out. The wife kept her mouth shut on the 
threat that her husband and she would lose their jobs if she said anything. The 
husband says that he knew nothing of the arrangement until about a year or so 
ago when he was fired, and his wife was fired, thereupon she confessed the 
arrangement to him and they went to the police.
 

 This is India we are talking about,  so I nave no idea how plausible the 
scenario is within that culture.
 

 

 L

[FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Girish Varma Ji is to be praised?

2014-04-23 Thread LEnglish5


 By the way, why does everyone say that GIrish Varma is a billionaire? Has 
anyone seen his bank accounts or tax records?
 

 L

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote :

 What *you* have said doesn't make any sense at all.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 
 Girish is a billionaire. It doesn't make much sense that he would have to 
resort to threats to have sex.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

 Dunno anything about Girish Varma except that many people who are hostile to 
Maharishi are also hostile to him. The accusation of rape is interesting 
because the behavior allegedly lasted for about 15 years, and involved the wife 
of his assistant being invited to accompany her husband on trips so that Varma 
would be able to access the room of the husband and wife whenever he wanted 
while the husband was doing errands for Varma. 

 According to the wife, this allowed Varma to have sex with her over a period 
of 15 years whenever her husband went out. The wife kept her mouth shut on the 
threat that her husband and she would lose their jobs if she said anything. The 
husband says that he knew nothing of the arrangement until about a year or so 
ago when he was fired, and his wife was fired, thereupon she confessed the 
arrangement to him and they went to the police.
 

 This is India we are talking about,  so I nave no idea how plausible the 
scenario is within that culture.
 

 

 L

[FairfieldLife] Re: Beautiful New Global family chat today

2014-04-22 Thread LEnglish5

Thanks for the heads up. I'm not too thrilled with the use of Octoshape, but 
I'm a TM news junkie, so I guess I can tolerate it. 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 
 That's why Jerry Jarvis said his favorite pastime these days is watching 
Maharishi Family Chat.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 If you want to know what the TM movement and the Rajas are really doing around 
the world check out Global Family Chat , today's has really beautiful news 
about Africa!
http://maharishichannel.in/CHANNEL_3/index.html 
http://maharishichannel.in/CHANNEL_3/index.html
there is a new time 'slider along the bottom so you could still watch today's 
chat even before it shows up in the archives by going back in time with the 
slider.
Tomorrow will probably have some very interesting news about the Americas.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Beautiful New Global family chat today

2014-04-22 Thread LEnglish5


 There's plenty of peer-to-peer technologies that companies tolerate, just not 
always on technologies like Octoshape.
 

 I couldn't find any reports that it does anything more than swap bandwidth, so 
I'll tolerate it for now, but if I see worse-than-usual problems, off it goes.
 

 And I wish I had a workplace that I could be concerned about, anyway.
 

 L.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 12:48 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Beautiful New Global family chat today
 
 
   Thanks for the heads up. I'm not too thrilled with the use of Octoshape, but 
I'm a TM news junkie, so I guess I can tolerate it.






They're still using that? How dumb. I hope you're not trying to view this stuff 
on a work computer, because almost all companies forbid the use of peer-to-peer 
technology, and that's what Octoshape is. 

OCTOSHAPE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR
 “OCTOSHAPE STREAMING SERVICES SOFTWARE”
 
 IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End User License Agreement (the Agreement) 
for use of the Octoshape streaming services software (the Software) 
constitutes a valid and binding agreement between you (either an individual or 
an entity) and Octoshape ApS, Store Kongensgade 118, 1. TH, DK-1264 Copenhagen 
K (Octoshape). The Software includes any on-line or electronic documentation 
and any updates and upgrades that Octoshape may make available to you during 
the term of this Agreement. You must accept this Agreement in order to have the 
right to install and use the Software in accordance with the terms set forth 
herein. 
 
 BY INSTALLING AND/OR USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF 
THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, DO NOT 
INSTALL OR USE THE SOFTWARE. 
 
 1. PERMISSION TO UTILIZE
 You hereby acknowledge that the Software utilizes a grid streaming technology. 
With grid streaming technology, parts of the video and audio stream you watch 
may be delivered to your personal computer system via the personal computer 
systems of other end users of the Software, and the personal computer system on 
which you install the Software may also be used to deliver parts of the video 
and audio stream to other end users of the Software. 
 
 Accordingly, you hereby grant permission for Octoshape and other end users of 
the Software to utilize and share the processor and bandwidth of your personal 
computer system for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication 
between you and other end users of the Software, including Octoshape. 


 
  

They're still using that? How dumb. I hope you're not trying to view this stuff 
on a work computer, because almost all companies forbid the use of peer-to-peer 
technology, and that's what Octoshape is.

[FairfieldLife] Re: For the jugglers out there

2014-04-22 Thread LEnglish5

Well I'm impressed. 5 balls in beginning-level professional in the eyes of 
hard-core jugglers. I've never managed more than 4. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 You know who you are, even if you don't dare name yourselves and expose 
yourselves to derision. I could once juggle 7 balls, and only for about as long 
as this guy juggles 13. 

 

 http://digg.com/video/juggling-13-balls-at-once 
http://digg.com/video/juggling-13-balls-at-once

[FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM Rajas An Offshoot?

2014-04-21 Thread LEnglish5

The Rajas are people who paid $1 million to become the administrators of the TM 
organization at the highest level, or who managed to get someone to pay that 
money for them. 

 As I understand it, a requirement to be a raja was not simply that you pay the 
money but that you be willing to wear the funny hat.
 

 Apparently that hat requirement has ben relaxed at least somewhat, but since 
Tony abu Nader gets to rewrite the rules as he sees fit, that isn't all that a 
big deal if he choses not to wear his crown in public appearances.
 

 The fact that John Hagelin didn't wear HIS crown as Raja of North America is 
more interesting, but again, Tony Nader gets to write the rules and it if is OK 
with him...
 

 Of course, John Hagelin might be an exception to the rule in several ways as 
he can wear any of 4 hats (that I am aware of): Raja John Hagelin: 
Professor/Director John Hagelin; President of the David Lynch Foundation, John 
Hagelin; Chairman of the board of directors of the Maharishi Foundation, John 
Hagelin.
 

 The other guys seem happy or at least comfortable with wearing their hats in 
public, but then again, most of them don't make many public appearances outside 
TM organization functions while King Tony and Raja John are very much in the 
public eye by comparison.
 

 

 L
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote :

 Share writes:
 “The Rajas are just a weird offshoot of a main organization”.
 

 So why the gold foil hats and robes, now?   What were they thinking the other 
night coming, sitting and leaving in their processional in and out of the 
meeting in full WTF-regalia?  Generally groups can both live and die by their 
own specialness. The social-science field of altruistic evolution proly has a 
lot to say about that. This TM group has been killing itself off over the long 
years by cultivating extra-specialness within it. And, this cultivating 
specialness of the Rajas now? Does a larger meditating community want to belong 
to that or have that represent it? It all seems more like a hazing than 
anything else. It was interesting to see who [which Raja] were not wearing the 
gold crown and robe git-up at the meeting. That itself proly took some courage 
to do.
 
 -Buck
 

 7Ray27 writes:
 Hey Michael,
 

 Most of what I know about the school comes from the annual publication I get 
listing achievements and donors about and to MUM..  (and yes, I am listed as 
making a small donation)
 

 But as I understand it Craig Pearson is the administrative head of the school. 
 

 Now, whether he takes his orders from the Rajas, or Bevan, or if is able to 
work independently, I don't know.
 

 I do happen to know someone higher up in the school administration and talk to 
him very infrequently.  But the impression I get is that those administrators 
handle to day to day running, without a lot of direct oversight or interference 
from the rajas.
 

 Of course, in the same publication, they also list the trustees of the 
university.  They are many, and very few (if any) are  rajas, IIRC.
 

 So, that may offer a different perspective than the one you are offering.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 an offshoot? What are you smoking? Let's see - the leader of the Movement, 
King-Pin Tony CALLS himself not only a king but the BIG king, he wears robes 
and a big ass gold crown - all the other leaders including Bevan are all robe 
and crown wearers - these asses RUN the Movement - if the rajas aren't in 
charge who is? The fact that you can't accept these guys have become the face 
of the new Movement is indicative of just how deep your denial runs.
 

 

 sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Student Housing and More I think
 it's called the World Wide Web.  
 The
 Rajas are just a weird offshoot of the main organization.
  I'm not sure what direct connection the Rajas have
 to academic life.
 As
 for due diligence during the time you were involved in the
 organization and people looking at it now, it's sort of
 like indicting the Collective Papers for being so low on
 Amazon's Book list compared to the guy's book that
 just came out about the murder of his fellow MUM student. A
 lot has changed in thirty years.
 The
 world just doesn't turn exactly the way you want it to
 Michael.  You have to get used to that fact.
  Despite your earnest efforts to defeat the
 organization in every way you can, you may end up being
 frustrated.  
 But
 I'm sure you'll stay at it.  It appears to be
 quite a preoccupation for you.
 And
 really, if truth be told, it seems to have come on heels of
 your other failed spiritual ventures.  Perhaps all that
 frustration got all balled up, and this is now the
 result.
 Just
 sayin' 
 mjackson74
 wrote :
 
 You must be
 living with your head in the sand Share - the TMO masks a
 great deal of what it does from the outside observer
 including those who are prospective students. I

[FairfieldLife] Re: Brain injury makes man a math genius

2014-04-20 Thread LEnglish5

For every autistic savant, there are many, many who simply suffer degradation
of cognitive abilities. Stroke victims and other people with brain damage show
the same trend: just about everyone suffers, but a few benefit in some way.

All my problems add up to... problems. I may have compensating gifts of some
kind but they have never manifested strongly or consistently enough to say that
I'm happy with being different.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

What are the implications? For the nature of consciousness, perhaps for
reincarnation?

First paragraph of an excerpt from the book Struck By Genius: How a Brain
Injury Made Me a Mathematical Marvel
http://www.amazon.com/Struck-Genius-Injury-Mathematical-Marvel/dp/0544045602/?tag=saloncom08-20
at Salon.com:

If you could see the world through my eyes, you would know how perfect it is,
how much order runs through it, and how much structure is hidden in its tiniest
parts. We’re so often victims of things—I see the violence too, the disease,
the poverty stretching far and wide—but the universe itself and everything we
can touch and all that we are is made of the most beautiful geometric patterns
imaginable. I know because they’re right in front of me. Because of a traumatic
brain injury, the result of a brutal physical attack, I’ve been able to see
these patterns for over a decade. This change in my perception was really a
change in my brain function, the result of the injury and the extraordinary and
mostly positive way my brain healed. All of a sudden, the patterns were just .
. . there, and I realize now that my injury was a rare gift. I’m lucky to have
survived, but for me, the real miracle—what really saved me—was being
introduced to and almost overwhelmed by the mathematical grace of the universe.

Read more:
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/20/the_brain_injury_that_made_me_a_math_genius/
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/20/the_brain_injury_that_made_me_a_math_genius/

It's an astonishing story; I have no idea what to make of it. Seems like the
guy acquired OCD along with his new math abilities, but he doesn't seem to mind.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Why TM teachers cannot get Shankara's teachings

Nor need they be.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote :

TM teachers are instructed within a yogic-advaita framework - one that
underpins their understanding about meditation and reality. Without exposure to
Shankara's teachings and the traditional Upanishad methodology, it will be hard
for any TM'er to entertain this original view.

Shankara says:
For there is the statement of the shruti : “The Brahman that is direct and
immediate” (BU 3.4.1) and there is the statement, tat tvam asi “you are That”
(CU6.8.7) which teaches [that Brahman] is already accomplished. This sentence
“you are That” cannot be interpreted to mean you will become That after you
are dead (i.e in heaven).

Comans explains:
Firstly, Shankara is committed to the understanding that the Self is
self-luminous, for it is by nature simple, sheer Awareness (BUbh 4.3.23).
Secondly, in accord with this view of the self-luminosity of the Self as
Awareness, Shankara has characterized the Self as “Experience Itself”
(anubhavâtman). We should therefore expect that the experience about which
Shankara speaks is the “intuition”, “insight”, or even “recognition” of oneself
as sheer Awareness. It cannot be a new experience of producing something that
did not previously exist. Nor can it be an experience involving the
objectification of Awareness. It is rather the “experience” of oneself AS
Awareness, without limitations. For that is what one is, and so finds oneself
to be, when there is the apprehension of one’s own fundamental
Awareness-nature, together with the apprehension of the “seeming”, or the
apparent nature (mithyâtva) of all limiting adjuncts (upâdhis) - those that
pertain to the individual body-mind (tvam), as well as to the Lordship of
Brahman (tat).

TM teachers are not educated or trained to receive, apprehend or articulate
such a view about the immediacy of direct realization.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does TM seem to focus on losers?

The David Lynch Foundation offers TM instruction for free to people in at 
risk groups, but the $2500 price tag was originally set by Maharishi to entice 
wealthy people and only wealthy people to learn TM. Weren't you complaining 
about how insanely high that price tag was? 

 Seems to me that no matter how TM is marketed and for what price and for 
whichever group of people -the homeless, war refugees, students in El Barrio 
watching their cousins kill their cousins, or world famous actors and 
actresses, CEOs worth as much as small countries, etc.- you'll find a reason to 
kvetch.
 

 It's just an idea. YMMV.
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 One of the things I've noticed over the years is how many long-term TMers say 
things like, I'd be dead if it weren't for TM, or TM saved my life, or TM 
cured me of my depression/anxiety/suicidal thoughts/mental illness/whatever. 

I've always found these claims difficult to relate to, because I didn't have 
anything to cure or get over when I first started TM. I had already left 
drugs behind me, having discovered them back when LSD was still legal and came 
in a bottle with Sandoz on the label. I did my time with them, enjoyed them 
*not* because they were an escape from my problems but because they enhanced 
an already-enjoyable life. But then I got tired of them, and even more tired of 
the scene surrounding them, and left them behind. I'm probably one of the only 
people here who didn't have to wait 15 days before starting TM. :-)  I was also 
neither depressed nor suicidal. In fact, I was a pretty happy frood, and merely 
one who was looking for ways to become even happier.

And for a time, TM presented what I was looking for, something to enhance a 
good life and help me to appreciate it even more. But then it became as boring 
and as stagnant as drugs had been, and with an even more stifling social scene, 
so I moved on again to other forms of meditation that worked better.

But there seem to be any number of long-term TMers who don't look back on their 
TM experience this way. They seem to focus on what it enabled them to get 
over or cure or get beyond, almost as if (almost) before TM they had been 
broken and TM had fixed them. 

This gets me to thinking about tent revival meetings in the South (which, of 
course, you can't help but attend a few of if you grow up in the South), in 
which the most fervent believers and most fundamentalist Bible-thumpers were 
ALL those who formerly were drunks or whores or thieves or something BAD. It's 
as if they don't feel they can adequately shout I've been SAVED! unless they 
feel they had a lot to be saved FROM.

And *this* gets me to thinking about whether Maharishi always pitched TM to 
losers and people with problems and low self esteem because they become the 
best disciples. And *disciples* is what he was looking for.

Think about it. Does the TMO really spend any energy trying to market TM to 
regular people, who have few problems in life and are just looking to enjoy 
it more? They do not. They focus on People With Problems.

Kids doing badly in school. Criminals locked away in prisons. Veterans with 
PTSD. 

Can't this be seen as a continuation of a long-standing trend to look for 
prospective new students among populations who are more likely to be easy to 
convert into True Believers and thus become disciples? 

It's just an idea. YMMV.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why does TM seem to focus on losers?

The people who learn TM via the David Lynch Foundation don't pay anything. 

 People who receive food from the Red Cross don't pay for that food, but the 
people who donate money to the Red Cross did. You're picking a nit that only 
exists in your own mind.
 

 TM teachers get compensated for their time teaching TM, whether they teach 
through a TM center, or through the DLF. The national TM organization gets a 
cut of the money as well, though it isn't that much in the case of students. 
Currently, TM instruction costs $360 for school age kids, including full-time 
undergrad and grad students in college. A single TM teacher is responsible for 
teaching 300 students at a Quiet Time school, at least as far as compensation 
goes, though details of how local TM centers and/or local TM teachers are 
involved in the process are unclear to me (probably because they wing it 
depending on who is available when).
 

 If you look at the Maharishi Foundation, Inc Form 990 for 2012, when teaching 
students, TM teachers  got 2/3 of the fee while the TM organization got 1/3. 
This works out to nearly $300/student. The 990 form for 2013 isn't available 
online yet, but they TMO is supposed to be so flush with cash this past year 
that they were able to drop the fees substantially and still pay all their 
bills. With the new fee schedule for 2014, I'm guessing that TM teachers will 
still get about $300/student while the TM organization will only get $60.
 

 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Incorrect Lawson - David Lynch doesn't offer shit for free. Why do you think 
he is ALWAYS begging for donations to FUND the programs? The TMO ALWAYS gets 
paid, no matter what. EVERYTHING they do is a scam to make money so they can 
live big.
 
 On Fri, 4/18/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... 
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why does TM seem to focus on losers?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, April 18, 2014, 11:10 AM
 
 The David Lynch Foundation offers TM instruction
 for free to people in at risk groups, but the
 $2500 price tag was originally set by Maharishi to entice
 wealthy people and only wealthy people to learn TM.
 Weren't you complaining about how insanely high that
 price tag was?
 Seems to me that no matter how TM is marketed and
 for what price and for whichever group of people -the
 homeless, war refugees, students in El Barrio watching their
 cousins kill their cousins, or world famous actors and
 actresses, CEOs worth as much as small countries, etc.-
 you'll find a reason to kvetch.
 It's just an idea. YMMV.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
turquoiseb@...
 wrote :
 
 One of the things I've noticed over the years is
 how many long-term TMers say things like, I'd be
 dead if it weren't for TM, or TM saved my
 life, or TM cured me of my
 depression/anxiety/suicidal thoughts/mental
 illness/whatever. 
 
 I've always
 found these claims difficult to relate to, because I
 didn't have anything to cure or get
 over when I first started TM. I had already left drugs
 behind me, having discovered them back when LSD was still
 legal and came in a bottle with Sandoz on the label. I did
 my time with them, enjoyed them *not* because they were an
 escape from my problems but because they
 enhanced an
 already-enjoyable life. But then I got tired of them, and
 even more tired of the scene surrounding them, and left them
 behind. I'm probably one of the only people here who
 didn't have to wait 15 days before starting TM.
 :-)  I was also neither depressed nor suicidal. In
 fact, I was a pretty happy frood, and merely one who was
 looking for ways to become even happier.
 
 And for a time, TM
 presented what I was looking for, something to enhance a
 good life and help me to appreciate it even more. But then
 it became as boring and as stagnant as drugs had been, and
 with an even more stifling social scene, so I moved on again
 to other forms of meditation that worked better.
 
 But there seem to
 be any number of long-term TMers who don't look back on
 their TM experience this way. They seem to focus on what it
 enabled them to get over or cure or
 get beyond, almost as if
 (almost) before TM they had been broken and TM
 had fixed them. 
 
 This gets me to
 thinking about tent revival meetings in the South (which, of
 course, you can't help but attend a few of if you grow
 up in the South), in which the most fervent
 believers and most fundamentalist Bible-thumpers
 were ALL those who formerly were drunks or whores or thieves
 or something BAD. It's as if they don't feel they
 can adequately shout I've been SAVED! unless
 they feel they had a lot to be saved FROM.
 
 And *this* gets me to thinking
 about whether Maharishi always pitched TM to losers and
 people with problems and low self esteem because

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why does TM seem to focus on losers?

Yes, the money people donate goes to:

1) the overhead for keeping the doors of the DLF open.
2) the TM teachers
3) the Maharishi Foundation

according to the Maharishi Foundation 990 form from 2012,
https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2014_01_EO/04-3196447_990_201212.pdf
https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2014_01_EO/04-3196447_990_201212.pdf ,TM
instruction of students of any description (10-18, full-time undergrad/grad)
was at 1,473 with revenues of $685,000. Expenses were $436,023.

That works out to 2/3 of the money going to the teachers at nearly
$300/student taught,and the rest going to the TMO. The DLF got some money for
overhead and the teachers got 2/3 of the official fee and the TMO got the rest.

If your point really IS that somebody paid for it at some point, that's just
plain silly. Even when you donate blood to the Red Cross, somebody pays for it.
Leaving aside the food you consumed to produce the blood in the first place,
the Red Cross has to pay someone to refrigerate teh blood, transport the blood,
etc. They have full-time employees (not volunteers) that handle large portions
of this process because it is delicate work, not left to amateurs.

They pay their executives a pretty decent wage ($6 million+), though
not-so-much considering that they accept $3 billion+ a year in donations and so
on.

http://www.redcross.org/images/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m16540911_FY12_ARC_990_Filed_with_IRS.pdf

Complaining that the money goes somewhere without being specific about it,
is silly.

Money ALWAYS goes somewhere. There's overhead in keeping the doors open for
large 501(c)(3) organizations. John Hagelin gets paid $36,000 as head of the
Maharishi Foundation and another $37,000 as head of the David Lynch Foundation.
https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2014_02_PF/20-0458302_990PF_201309.pdf
https://bulk.resource.org/irs.gov/eo/2014_02_PF/20-0458302_990PF_201309.pdf

Gail McGovern gets paid $591,000+ as president and CEO of the American Red
Cross plus another $37,000 in the misc category of compensation.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

I didn't say the people pay anything, I said the Lynch hucksters are always
begging for donations - that money goes somewhere

On Fri, 4/18/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@...
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:

Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why does TM seem to focus on losers?
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, April 18, 2014, 2:03 PM

The people who learn TM via the David Lynch
Foundation don't pay anything.
People who receive food from the Red Cross
don't pay for that food, but the people who donate money
to the Red Cross did. You're picking a nit that only
exists in your own mind.
TM teachers get compensated for their time
teaching TM, whether they teach through a TM center, or
through the DLF. The national TM organization gets a cut of
the money as well, though it isn't that much in the case
of students. Currently, TM instruction costs $360 for school
age kids, including full-time undergrad and grad students in
college. A single TM teacher is responsible for teaching 300
students at a Quiet Time school, at least as far as
compensation goes, though details of how local TM centers
and/or local TM teachers are involved in the process are
unclear to me (probably because they wing it depending on
who is available when).
If you look at the Maharishi Foundation, Inc Form
990 for 2012, when teaching students, TM teachers got
2/3 of the fee while the TM organization got 1/3. This works
out to nearly $300/student. The 990 form for 2013 isn't
available online yet, but they TMO is supposed to be so
flush with cash this past year that they were able to drop
the fees substantially and still pay all their bills. With
the new fee schedule for 2014, I'm guessing that TM
teachers will still get about $300/student while the TM
organization will only get $60.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
mjackson74@...
wrote :

Incorrect Lawson -
David Lynch doesn't offer shit for free. Why do you
think he is ALWAYS begging for donations to FUND
the programs? The TMO ALWAYS gets paid, no matter what.
EVERYTHING they do is a scam to make money so they can live
big.

On Fri, 4/18/14, LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@...
wrote:

Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why does TM seem to focus on
losers?

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

Date: Friday, April 18, 2014, 11:10 AM

The David Lynch Foundation offers TM instruction

for free to people in at risk groups, but the

$2500 price tag was originally set

Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!

Share, I was paraphrasing Maharishi's own description of what advanced 
techniques do: they make the angle of the dive less, so that we can take more 
time to appreciate different layers of the mind on the way to the Transcendent, 
rather than just diving straight in. 

 I have no idea if my physiological interpretation of what he meant is correct, 
but it seems highly unlikely that the kind of EEG that long-term TMers show, 
including those who have been taught advanced techniques, can be associated in 
any way with the EEG that shows up in people who have been practicing other 
mantra meditation practices for a long time.
 

 They're just too different.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Lawson, I'm not sure about the accuracy of your statement that because the 
dive is shallower, progression to samadhi takes longer. In one of Fred Travis' 
graduate classes, someone complained that they didn't feel deep in TM anymore. 
Fred explained that one way to understand the growth from CC to GC is that the 
depth comes up to the surface. So we might not feel deep. But that doesn't mean 
that we aren't deep. I'd add that in any case, trying to feel deep is counter 
productive.
 

 On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 9:29 PM, LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   The long-term outcome of all mantras is that they lead to samadhi. Some work 
faster than others, which, ironically, is the point of advanced techniques: the 
dive is more shallow, so the progression to samadhi takes longer.
 

 So that doesn't explain the striking difference between TM and other 
mantra-based methods. It's not the fact that a simple, fast-working mantra was 
being used. If that was the case, then other practices would show the simplest 
state of awareness slower, but instead, they show it LESS, the longer people 
have been practicing.
 

 L

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Transcendentalism,

Um, Michael? 

 The article is citing people critical of the AHRQ review which found hat 
meditation doesn't work. Note that the review found that NO meditation practice 
worked, not just TM.
 

 So the question arises: did you mean to cite teh AHRQ review as being 
definitive, or did you mean to cite the people who were critical of the review, 
since that is the main point of the article: people disagree with the review.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Here is what the real world thinks of all your precious science about TM:
 
 Top researchers criticize new meditation and health study
 Rush PR News/July 26, 2007
 
 Scientists stated, A controversial new government-funded report, which found 
that meditation does not improve health, is methodologically flawed, 
incomplete, and should be retracted. 
 
 New York, NY (rushprnews) July 26, 2007 - This is the consensus of a growing 
number of researchers in the U.S. and abroad who have reviewed the report and 
are critical of its conclusions.
 
 Meditation Practices for Health: State of the Research was a health 
technology assessment report conducted at the University of Alberta and 
sponsored by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality and the 
NIH-National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine. The report was 
released earlier this month.
 
 Respected reviewer urged authors to withhold publication—Analytical strategy 
looked haphazard and ad hoc
 
 Professor Harald Walach of the University of Northampton and School of Social 
Sciences and the Samueli Institute for information Biology in England reviewed 
the paper before its release and strongly urged the authors to withhold 
publication. When I looked carefully into the details of the study, the whole 
analytical strategy looked rather haphazard and ad hoc, Walach said.
 
 Relevant studies excluded from AHRQ findings
 
 Robert Schneider, M.D., F.A.C.C., is one of the leading researchers on the 
health effects of meditation in the nation. Dr. Schneider has been the 
recipient of more than $22 million in grants from the National Institutes of 
Health over the past 20 years for his research on the effects of the 
Transcendental Meditation technique and natural medicine on cardiovascular 
disease. He says that relevant findings were excluded from the report, 
including peer-reviewed studies on the effects of this meditation technique on 
hypertension, cardiovascular disease, myocardial ischemia, atherosclerosis, 
changes to physiology, and improvements to mental and physical health.
 
 Dr. Schneider cited two studies published in the American Journal of 
Cardiology in 2005, which demonstrated that individuals with high blood 
pressure who were randomly assigned to TM groups had a 30% lower risk for 
mortality than controls. These studies should have been included in the AHRQ 
report, Dr. Schneider said, but were inexplicably excluded. In addition, 75 
published studies were overlooked, even though these were sent to the authors 
by one of the reviewers.
 
 Dr. Schneider said the AHRQ report incorrectly analyzed studies and 
incorrectly rated the quality of the studies while applying statistical methods 
poorly, arbitrarily, and unsystematically. The report also included errors in 
collecting data from research studies, in recording data from papers, and in 
classifying studies. Several peer-reviewers pointed out major errors and 
inadequacies in the report prior to publication. However, these critiques by 
outside reviewers were largely ignored. (For critiques of the report, see 
http://www.mum.edu/inmp/welcome.html) http://www.mum.edu/inmp/welcome.html)
 
 Dr. Schneider also cited a study published in the American medical 
Association's journal Archives of Internal Medicine in 2006—one year after the 
AHRQ review ended in 2005—which confirmed that the Transcendental Meditation 
technique lowers high blood pressure in heart disease patients. The study was 
conducted at Cedars Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles and was funded by a 
$1.2 million grant from the National Institutes of Health.
 
 Dr. Schneider directs the Institute for Natural Medicine and Prevention at 
Maharishi University of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, which was supported by 
an $8 million grant from the National Institutes of Health as a specialized 
center of research in complementary and alternative medicine and cardiovascular 
disease.

Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!

I can't comment on any of that, except in the context of TM vs other mantra 
practices... 

 

 The long-term (and sometimes short-term) physiological correlates of TM 
practice are different than found in published research on other meditation 
practices, whether or not mantras are invovled.
 

 That includes sahaj samadhi meditation, as well as sahaj samadhi yoga, whcih 
are apparently two different practices.
 

 I've yet to see any published research on Chopra's Primordial Sound 
Meditation, which he conscously modeled after TM.
 

 

 L
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 No, the longer mantras are usually given along with the jump start of 
shaktipat.  That's something Maharishi also did.  But if shaktipat was required 
for TM teachers he might have wound up with only a few dozen.  Beej mantras can 
be given by anybody so it was a shortcut.  The beejs are more like tilling the 
soil while the advanced techniques the seed to plant.  The beej mantras aren't 
faster, they're just little sparks of shakti.  However they do have some useful 
effects.  Otherwise they wouldn't be used in ayurveda and jyotish.
 
  
 On 04/16/2014 07:29 PM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   The long-term outcome of all mantras is that they lead to samadhi. Some work 
faster than others, which, ironically, is the point of advanced techniques: the 
dive is more shallow, so the progression to samadhi takes longer.
 

 So that doesn't explain the striking difference between TM and other 
mantra-based methods. It's not the fact that a simple, fast-working mantra was 
being used. If that was the case, then other practices would show the simplest 
state of awareness slower, but instead, they show it LESS, the longer people 
have been practicing.
 

 L

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!

Perha's he's issued an _ex cathedra_ proclamation that robes and crowns are now 
optional for him when making public appearances. I know that I would be tempted 
to make such a proclamation, were I him. 

 

 It also clears teh way for him to appear on Oprah, of course. One hopes taht 
he isn't planning on pulling a Chopra on Oprah when if does so and promote 
himself instead of TM and Maharishi Ayurveda.
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Actually turq, even in the poster announcing the meeting, Dr. Nader is wearing 
a suit and no crown.
 

 On Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:11 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote:
 
   From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 6:02 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
 
 
   This meeting tonite is incredibly extremely really important for all of 
Transcendental Meditation.
 Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam, CEO of all of TM, will speak to the meditating 
community.
 

 With all due respect, you are presenting this as if this guy who lied to the 
entire TM community for years is doing you some kind of *honor* by deigning to 
speak to you, presumably while wearing robes and a crown and calling himself a 
king. I can only hope that there is a call and response segment of his talk, 
so that you can thank him properly (0:30-1:30):
 The Meaning of Life: Growth and Learning 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBqe5xvYnNc

 
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBqe5xvYnNc
 
 The Meaning of Life: Growth and Learning 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBqe5xvYnNc

 
 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBqe5xvYnNc
 Preview by Yahoo
 



 

 Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating Community
 In the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, 
 starting at 8:00 p.m.

Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!

Settled only centuries ago? You mean, before that, there was argument? 

 Is turiya the same as samadhi, by the way? How do you know?
 
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 Read your scripture, Contact with Brahman,...is infinite joy. MMY Gita 
VIvs29 What?, now we're going to argue about what Samadhi is? That's been 
settled centuries ago, but apparently not by the TMorg. (There are degrees of 
Samadhi, granted, but MMY NEVER taught about those, we're talking about 
Savikalpa and Nirvikalpa Samadhi)

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 
 Samadhi doesn't always produce bliss, if that's what you're saying. Plenty of 
other interesting things can go on while having no thoughts and no mantra. 
Experiencing infinity for example :-)

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Lawson, I'm not sure about the accuracy of your statement that because the 
dive is shallower, progression to samadhi takes longer. In one of Fred Travis' 
graduate classes, someone complained that they didn't feel deep in TM anymore. 
Fred explained that one way to understand the growth from CC to GC is that the 
depth comes up to the surface. So we might not feel deep. But that doesn't mean 
that we aren't deep. I'd add that in any case, trying to feel deep is counter 
productive.
 

 On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 9:29 PM, LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   The long-term outcome of all mantras is that they lead to samadhi. Some work 
faster than others, which, ironically, is the point of advanced techniques: the 
dive is more shallow, so the progression to samadhi takes longer.
 

 So that doesn't explain the striking difference between TM and other 
mantra-based methods. It's not the fact that a simple, fast-working mantra was 
being used. If that was the case, then other practices would show the simplest 
state of awareness slower, but instead, they show it LESS, the longer people 
have been practicing.
 

 L

Re: [FairfieldLife] Why morality is important in reaching enlightenment.

An excerpt of Maharishi's talks on the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali: 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYKsNCyj_sE 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYKsNCyj_sE

 

 William Sands has a new book on Yoga out, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and His Gift 
to the World and Maharishi’s Yoga: The Royal Path to Enlightenment. 
 

 
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2014/03/a-different-take-on-ashtanga-yoga-william-f-sands/
 
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2014/03/a-different-take-on-ashtanga-yoga-william-f-sands/

 

 Sands' website is: http://www.wfsands.com http://www.wfsands.com
 

L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 wgm4u, didn't Maharishi once explain that by doing TM one was actually 
practicing all 8 limbs of yoga? I'm pretty sure he did but I don't remember the 
details.
 
 On Thursday, April 17, 2014 1:35 PM, wgm4u no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
   As long as the prana (or chi) is locked in the lower chakras (spiritual 
centers of awakening) of lust, anger and greed, it will not release the soul to 
higher realms. These samskaras (deep impressions) eventually must be 'burnt' 
out completely to maintain that state of Self-Realization or God Realization.
 

 Though the impressions are in the sub-conscious mind their correlate is 
reflected in the vital/pranic body (sometimes called the health body that 
permeates the physical body). This is why Ayurved is pursued in TM and other 
organizations, by clearing the vayus (or airs, actually the pranic channels in 
the subtle body) of 'stress' and impurities (ie. attachments) one is finally 
set free to *ascend* to Samadhi.
 

 Remember MMY said in the beginning, ones tip toes through the sleeping 
elephants', these sleeping elephants are the doshas (in yoga AND in Ayurved) 
which must be removed/replaced by the virtues, hence the importance of 
practicing ALL of Patanjali's 8 limbs of Yoga, not just a few..

[FairfieldLife] Re: Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld discussing TM in a roadside cafe. It feels pretty unrehearsed.


 I think you are wrong. This talk has very much the feel of some of the scenes 
of INLAND EMPIRE to it though I think it isn't staged past asking them to sit 
and talk.
 

 L

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 
 Always nice to see hugely successful people also have that serious side and 
stick to meditation over a long period. As opposed to the pundits on FFL.
 

 The Jerry Seinfeld/Howard Stern talk is not a David Lynch production. This 
Jerry Seinfeld talk obviously is:
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :


 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VvNJiFI-E 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VvNJiFI-E
 

 If feels like David Lynch or one of his people just asked them to set there 
and discuss TM as though it were a casual conversation. Of course, given 
David's ability to work with VCR cameras, it may have been a completely 
contrived, multi-take scene.
 

 L

[FairfieldLife] $1,500 instead of $16,500 to become a TM teacher via grants and forgivable loans

Conference call TODAY: The TM organization will offer up to $10,000 scholarship 
and another $5,000 forgivable loan to qualifying people to become a TM teacher 
and agree to teach TM full-time for 2 years -
 

 http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html 
http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld discussing TM in a roadside cafe. It feels pretty unrehearsed.

You are correct. It's cut footage from: 

 
http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/howard-stern-the-last-days-of-howard-stern
 
http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/howard-stern-the-last-days-of-howard-stern

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 
 I'm afraid your feeling is irrelevant. Like I said this is a series of 
interviews Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee made by Jerry Seinfeld. David 
Lynch had nothing to do with it.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMjoCluDFb4 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMjoCluDFb4

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

[FairfieldLife] Re: If the siddhis were real, here's a typical day in the life of a MSAE kid.

Fred Travis found enough people to perform physiological and psychological 
studies on people reporting CC for at least one year. 

 That study was published years ago. As my brain gets unfogged from 18 years of 
daily prozac, I'm finding that I'm having brief CC episodes whenever I'm 
regular with TM for more than a day or two, so it can't be all that uncommon 
with people who have been doing TM for several decades.
 

 

 L
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 We were promised CC in 5 - 8 years.  And then, we were LIED TO REPEATEDLY 
ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT FOR RESULTS from program after program after course after 
arjur this and arjur that.   Anyone who claimed enlightenment turned out to be 
jokes. Even poor Rick has a hard time finding someone with plain ordinary 
charisma let alone obvious spiritual radiance.  

So many lies, that, what, now, isn't questionable?  All the research is pretty 
much shitty work that can be debunked by a high school kid.

And face it, a couple billion spent by true believers, and all we end up with 
is ZILCH for proofs of almost any sort.  But we got a psychopath Girish 
slurping the money like DRACULA.  And we have our movement's trail of 
scoundrels who bilked anyone with a mantra, or the bastard who drugged and 
raped his patients, or heck with the drugs, how about the guy who just plain 
ol' raped 20 of them and is in prison now, or of course there's the guy with 
the pen in his eye -- he might have had a fleeting last thought about Hey, the 
technique didn't solve this crazy guy's problems.  

And on and on and on.  

And on.

And the funny part is that the technique has its virtues and should be studied.

In truth, the movement blew it.  We had something great, and we turned it into 
a money machine run by the most ridiculous popinjays.  

Edg



 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

 I am exceedingly certain that the TM-Sidhis ARE real, at least with respect to 
how they are supposed to affect the state of consciousness of the person who 
does them. 

 Now, obviously, I can't prove that the floating stage of Yogic Flying is real, 
nor can I prove that TM + TM-Sidhis is beneficial to anyone, let alone everyone 
who practices them, but the EEG results of long-term practice of TM + TM-SIdhis 
look to be obviously different than simply doing TM for the same amount of time.
 

 So... if you trust that the EEG changes are in the direction of some state 
that is of value, then doing TM + TM-sidhis regularly is of value.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 http://imgur.com/gallery/eQ5NM http://imgur.com/gallery/eQ5NM

Re: [FairfieldLife] $1,500 instead of $16,500 to become a TM teacher via grants and forgivable loans

There are places where teaching TM might not be attractive, such as remote 
Indian reservations, and these kinds of deals might be for that purpose. The US 
government forgives student loans for school teachers who agree to teach school 
on Indian reservations, for example, so its not unheard of. 

 Also, this may be testing the waters for recruiting people for overseas 
assignments. 
 

 The Brazilian government wants 48,000 TM teachers, one for each public school 
in Brazil, so this may be a way of recruiting people who speak Portuguese in 
preparation for that.
 

 Also, estimates are that about 100,000,000 people in Africa suffer from PTSD 
and/or other stress-related anxiety disorders. They may also be targeting 
people who are able to speak languages commonly  spoken in Africa, such as 
French, Portuguese, Arabic, Spanish, etc. If smoeone actually spoke a tribal 
African language, that would be a REAL plus, in that scenario.
 

 The deal is for 2 years teaching in the USA, but if you are young, and have 
the opportunity to work with UN relief agencies in Africa, wouldn't that be 
attractive as well?
 

 

 L
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 What the hell is this for? There aren't enough TM teachers already to serve 
those wanting to learn TM? This is yet another scam on the part of King Tony 
and all Marshy sycophants. They are wanting to create unneeded teachers so they 
can get MORE money in their hands. These grants and scholarships have to 
come from somewhere. The Lynch Foundation of Hucksters no doubt. The more they 
sign up, the more the Lynch boys can beg for donations and the more the TMO 
makes. 
 
 Or maybe since TM is getting kicked out of San Francisco schools, the Lynch 
Hucksters have surplus funds (doubt it). 
 
 I would strongly caution those contemplating such an inadvisable move to be 
extremely cautious with making agreements with the TM Movement - they are 
famous for not keeping their word, especially when it comes to making business 
deals.
 
 On Wed, 4/16/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... 
mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] $1,500 instead of $16,500 to become a TM teacher via 
grants and forgivable loans
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 3:23 PM

 Conference call TODAY: The TM organization will
 offer up to $10,000 scholarship and another $5,000
 forgivable loan to qualifying people to become a TM teacher
 and agree to teach TM full-time for 2 years -
 
 http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html 
http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html

Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!


 Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if studies like the effects of 
TM on PTSD in African war refugees are at least partially confirmed by 
dis-interested parties?
 

 What about if I'm right that Dietrich Lehmann and friends will soon publish 
research on TM that shows that TM has very much the opposite effect on the 
brain than they found in this study?
 

 http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf 
http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf
 

 

 To my ears, you are sounding progressively more shrill as evidence mounts that 
TM practice isn't as stupid as you say it is and that the TM organization isn't 
as single-mindedly evil as you say it is.
 

 L

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :

 Jesus Buck! Of all the exhortations you might give for me to come back to TM 
the idea of examining the research is the worst! The science is a joke, it is a 
bunch of people who feed off the Movement saying here is our finding - believe 
it cuz we say its true and don't pay attention to anything else. I finally had 
sense enough to conduct my own research into consciousness and into practical 
reality on the ground with the TMO and discovered that once I stopped thinking 
that all the crappy stuff that happens in life is something good cuz the 
Movement says it is, once I stopped turning a blind eye to the abuse the 
Movement visits on people everyday (you have been on the receiving end of that 
I see from the excerpt of Joe Webber's book I've been reading) and looked 
clearly at the results of TM in people's lives, saw the number of men and women 
who were quitting for various reasons I got the hell out and I am gonna stay 
out. I won't support an organization
 that lies, cheats, steals and ruins peoples' lives with no shame. You would do 
well to take a leaf from my book, cause even tho you have already experienced 
this, you don't seem to have gotten the memo that if you fool around with the 
TMO, you are gonna get treated like garbage.

Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!


 I ahve Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Unc. Of COURSE I worry about such 
things. I worry about them constantly, even/especially while meditating. It's 
the center of my life, to worry about things.
 

 So, I've got a pretty good idea of what would happen if I became certain that 
I was wrong about something:
 

 I'd worry about THAT, too.
 

 BUT...
 

 what if I was wrong about being wrong?
 

 Have you ever considered THAT scenario?
 

 

 I have.
 

 

 L

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :

 From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
   

 Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if studies like the effects of 
TM on PTSD in African war refugees are at least partially confirmed by 
dis-interested parties?
 

 What about if I'm right that Dietrich Lehmann and friends will soon publish 
research on TM that shows that TM has very much the opposite effect on the 
brain than they found in this study?
 

 http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf 
http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf
 

 To my ears, you are sounding progressively more shrill as evidence mounts that 
TM practice isn't as stupid as you say it is and that the TM organization isn't 
as single-mindedly evil as you say it is.
 







As much as I hate to say it, Lawson, to my ears you are sounding more and more 
like a religious fanatic, growing progressively more desperate to prove that 
what he has been taught to believe is true. Have you ever contemplated how you 
would feel if it weren't? Have you ever even considered the possibility?

Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!

TM is taught differently than Benson's Relaxation Response, at least. As to how 
differently it is taught from other forms of mantra meditation, that would 
depend on the teacher of that other form of mantra meditation.
 

 Samatha (spelling) is described as simple, effortless concentrative 
meditation. But it is taught AS focused attention, explained in terms of 
focused attention, and the theory that explains any and all effects is in terms 
of focussed attention.
 

 From MY perspective, the proof is in the measurable physiological effects of 
meditation practice, both during practice, and outside of practice. The 
difference between TM and focussed attention practices become more and more 
clear with respect to EEG, the longer someone has been practicing them. TM is a 
form of mind-wandering. The EEG induced by TM is the EEG found in 
mind-wandering, though a bit slower.
 

 Frontal EEG coherence in the alpha frequency band becomes much higher during 
TM, and higher still during pure consciousness. Focussed attention practices 
don't show this pattern but a different pattern.
 

 As to what this means, good or bad, that's another question, but EEG analysis 
of TM compared to EEG analysis of focussed attention practices shows some 
pretty obvious differences, especially in very long-term practitioners.
 

 You can see obvious differences by looking at the EEG here: 
http://www.samadhieeg.org.uk/page4.html http://www.samadhieeg.org.uk/page4.html
 

 and here: http://kenchawkin.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/eeg-graph.jpg 
http://kenchawkin.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/eeg-graph.jpg
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 So why would TM be any different from any other mantra meditation as far as 
effects?
 
 On 04/16/2014 09:53 AM, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   

 Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if studies like the effects of 
TM on PTSD in African war refugees are at least partially confirmed by 
dis-interested parties?
 

 What about if I'm right that Dietrich Lehmann and friends will soon publish 
research on TM that shows that TM has very much the opposite effect on the 
brain than they found in this study?
 

 http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf 
http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf
 

 

 To my ears, you are sounding progressively more shrill as evidence mounts that 
TM practice isn't as stupid as you say it is and that the TM organization isn't 
as single-mindedly evil as you say it is.
 

 L
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote :
 
 Jesus Buck! Of all the exhortations you might give for me to come back to TM 
the idea of examining the research is the worst! The science is a joke, it is a 
bunch of people who feed off the Movement saying here is our finding - believe 
it cuz we say its true and don't pay attention to anything else. I finally had 
sense enough to conduct my own research into consciousness and into practical 
reality on the ground with the TMO and discovered that once I stopped thinking 
that all the crappy stuff that happens in life is something good cuz the 
Movement says it is, once I stopped turning a blind eye to the abuse the 
Movement visits on people everyday (you have been on the receiving end of that 
I see from the excerpt of Joe Webber's book I've been reading) and looked 
clearly at the results of TM in people's lives, saw the number of men and women 
who were quitting for various reasons I got the hell out and I am gonna stay 
out. I won't support an organization
 that lies, cheats, steals and ruins peoples' lives with no shame. You would do 
well to take a leaf from my book, cause even tho you have already experienced 
this, you don't seem to have gotten the memo that if you fool around with the 
TMO, you are gonna get treated like garbage.

Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!

The long-term outcome of all mantras is that they lead to samadhi. Some work 
faster than others, which, ironically, is the point of advanced techniques: the 
dive is more shallow, so the progression to samadhi takes longer. 

 So that doesn't explain the striking difference between TM and other 
mantra-based methods. It's not the fact that a simple, fast-working mantra was 
being used. If that was the case, then other practices would show the simplest 
state of awareness slower, but instead, they show it LESS, the longer people 
have been practicing.
 

 L

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

IN some ways,MEG is teh klukiest looking of them all. It's super-conducting 
magnets next the  scalp (like EEG but with magnets instead of electrodes). 

 The crazy looking thing on top is the liquid-nitrogen refrigerator that keeps 
the magnets cold. Machines like that are super expensive, but can detect tiny 
magnetic fluctuations of the brain that last about 1/1000 of a second. In some 
ways they're more accurate than EEG, but they can only deal with magnetic 
fields towards the surface of the brain, so you can't even get a fuzzy idea of 
what is going on further in, like you can sorta get with the electric currents 
that EEG detects.
 

 I'd love to see MUM get one, but the initial cost is about $3 million, plus 
another $100K/year upkeep, at least, and you need a specialized magnetically 
shielded room + extremely stable power source. In other words, you'd need to 
spend as much as the entire MUM Student Center cost to install one.
 

 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/NIMH_MEG.jpg 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/NIMH_MEG.jpg
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 thanks for the info, Lawson. I've never heard of MEG before. And I admit, all 
these machines seem kind of clunky but if they help us see the brain better, 
great.

How best can the knower know itself?
 

 On Monday, April 14, 2014 4:13 AM, LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   Ny money is on sophisticated analysis of high resolution EEG and MEG. fMRI 
is pretty low-resolution, time-wise, and the interesting stuff can happen in 
way under a second, which is the ilmitation of all the popular direct brain 
imaging stuff.
 

 

 Lawson

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Thanks, Lawson. I think it'll be so much fun when we can see all these 
abstract states, such as absolute faith, right there in the fMRI.
 

 On Saturday, April 12, 2014 4:07 PM, LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   

 IF you have absolute faith in samadhi, that is, if your samadhi is unshakable, 
regardless of circumstances, then the ability to float might manifest.
 

 And placebo might be related to that in some way as there are overlaps in 
which brain circuits are activated during placebo effects and during the 
practice of the TM-Sidhis..
 

 

 There are also overlaps in the brain circuits that activate during pure 
consciousness and during mind-wandering, so placebo being related to siddhis 
practice is like saying that pure consciousness is related to  mind wandering.
 

 

 

 Or something.
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Lawson, thanks for the additional definitions of shraddha. Could you say more 
about your last two sentences? I'm missing your main point somehow.

 On Saturday, April 12, 2014 5:12 AM, LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   If you had the faith of a mustard seed, you could move mountains.
 

 shraddhaa is translated as Faith which can mean trust, or belief without 
proof. The Hebrew word translated as faith means something along the lines of 
strong [in God] and the Greed word means something like intuitive knowledge.
 

 Grok in the original sense of the Martian word for drink seems to contain 
a bit of the same feel.
 

 

 In the context of the siddhis, how about absolute stability of samadhi?
 

 The placebo effect might be related to that, in the same way that 
mind-wandering is related to pure consciousness.
 

 

 

 L
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister@... wrote :

 They might be called to be based on placebo, because, IMU, faith (shraddhaa) 
is the conditio
sine qua non of  samaadhi.

As an analogy, I'll try to explain in English, how I seem to recall to have 
learned to bike (at about 7 years of age).
It might have been the very first time I ever tried to ride a bike. It was a 
women's bike,
the one of the mother of a friend of mine. I just started to ride and kept on, 
believing,
that a couple of other boys were keeping the bike upright. As a stopped, I 
noticed
they were about 30 yards behind me! So I learned to bike because I, falsely,
believed  I couldn't fall (because I believed the other boys were running behind
me keeping the bike upright)! 

So, in a sense my belief was the placebo that instantaneosly
helped me to learn to ride a bike??

Wikipedia:

 Placebo effect and the brain Functional imaging 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_imaging upon placebo analgesia 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analgesia shows that it links to the activation, 
and increased functional correlation between this activation, in the anterior 
cingulate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate, prefrontal 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex, orbitofrontal 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbitofrontal_cortex and insular 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex cortices, nucleus accumbens 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleus_accumbens, amygdala 
http

[FairfieldLife] Re: If the siddhis were real, here's a typical day in the life of a MSAE kid.

I am exceedingly certain that the TM-Sidhis ARE real, at least with respect to 
how they are supposed to affect the state of consciousness of the person who 
does them. 

 Now, obviously, I can't prove that the floating stage of Yogic Flying is real, 
nor can I prove that TM + TM-Sidhis is beneficial to anyone, let alone everyone 
who practices them, but the EEG results of long-term practice of TM + TM-SIdhis 
look to be obviously different than simply doing TM for the same amount of time.
 

 So... if you trust that the EEG changes are in the direction of some state 
that is of value, then doing TM + TM-sidhis regularly is of value.
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 http://imgur.com/gallery/eQ5NM http://imgur.com/gallery/eQ5NM

[FairfieldLife] Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld discussing TM in a roadside cafe. It feels pretty unrehearsed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VvNJiFI-E 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VvNJiFI-E
 

 If feels like David Lynch or one of his people just asked them to set there 
and discuss TM as though it were a casual conversation. Of course, given 
David's ability to work with VCR cameras, it may have been a completely 
contrived, multi-take scene.
 

 L

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Three Categories of Meditation

Yes, but even so, that break between thoughts can still be there. The ultimate 
meditation is when you have no thoughts, no mantra for the entire period and 
never leave the PC again. 

 Plenty of people have self-during-meditation at all times in meditation 
practices. That's no big deal. 
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote :

 M said on my Age of Enlightenmnet course that no mantra , no thoughts 
transcending was just in the *beginning days* of meditation. That as one 
developes, one would experience a combination of silence or stillness 
underlying thoughts and mantra indicating the developement of CC, transcendence 
and activity(mental) at the same time. Transendental awareness can be 
experienced as *flat* or with that bubbling laughter like bliss
 On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:30 PM, wgm4u no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
   

 People who think they are transcending to pure consciousness during TM are 
merely parroting the TM movement jargon! No mantra, no thoughts? Pure 
Consciousness?? doubtful! like MMY used to say in the beginning 7 steps, 
you know it's a house, not a tree, that typifies most people's 
experience, it's just a distant glimpse, if you're lucky, which is good, but 
not pure Sat-Chit-Ananda.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 Depends on the individual, Billy.  We have folks here who claim they never got 
a buzz off performing the puja.  It makes me wonder if they even got a buzz 
off doing TM.  Maybe they were just there for the party.
 
 I certainly got a buzz off the puja and also some good meditations with TM. 
But I also had kundalini rise the first time I tried to meditate from 
instructions in a book some 3 years prior to learning TM.
 
 Bliss consciousness is shakti and very nice.  Thick and creamy is the best 
kind.  Comes in the tantra bottle. ;-) 
 
 On 04/15/2014 10:04 AM, wgm4u wrote:
 
   

 All that would all be true IF TM'ers actually *transcended to pure 
consciousness* which most don't, IMHO. Pure consciousness is a state of pure 
**bliss** consciousness;  no thought, no mantra and no bliss?,  equals NO pure 
consciousness! Most transcend a little and that's good, but let's not over 
exaggerate here, like MMY did over and over again!
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
 
 Back to the basics:
 http://www.mum.edu/three-categories-of-meditation 
http://www.mum.edu/three-categories-of-meditation

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Three Categories of Meditation

Thanks, I'll give you all the due consideration you are due, dude. 
L
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :

 I think Lawson, you need to get a little beyond MMY's *Yoga-lite for 
modernity* and start studying Yoga per se, I think you'll understand even MMY 
better IMO. MMY never taught TM in the context of Yoga, except marginally and 
most of what he taught he never bothered to reconcile with contemporary 
understandings of classical Yoga.
 The Self IS BLISS, in Yoga it's called the Ananda-Maya-Kosha, or bliss 
covering, it IS the jiva that has yet to be  expanded into the ONE, or God 
immanent in all creation; beyond that is Brahman, and the Unity of the two is 
what I believe MMY called Brahm, or the conjoining of Silence and Dynamism.
 

 If you haven't experienced Bliss you haven't even transcended to experience 
your own soul, much less God's, or Brahman! Ha

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :

 Yes, but even so, that break between thoughts can still be there. The ultimate 
meditation is when you have no thoughts, no mantra for the entire period and 
never leave the PC again. 

 Plenty of people have self-during-meditation at all times in meditation 
practices. That's no big deal. 
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote :

 M said on my Age of Enlightenmnet course that no mantra , no thoughts 
transcending was just in the *beginning days* of meditation. That as one 
developes, one would experience a combination of silence or stillness 
underlying thoughts and mantra indicating the developement of CC, transcendence 
and activity(mental) at the same time. Transendental awareness can be 
experienced as *flat* or with that bubbling laughter like bliss
 On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:30 PM, wgm4u no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
   

 People who think they are transcending to pure consciousness during TM are 
merely parroting the TM movement jargon! No mantra, no thoughts? Pure 
Consciousness?? doubtful! like MMY used to say in the beginning 7 steps, 
you know it's a house, not a tree, that typifies most people's 
experience, it's just a distant glimpse, if you're lucky, which is good, but 
not pure Sat-Chit-Ananda.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 Depends on the individual, Billy.  We have folks here who claim they never got 
a buzz off performing the puja.  It makes me wonder if they even got a buzz 
off doing TM.  Maybe they were just there for the party.
 
 I certainly got a buzz off the puja and also some good meditations with TM. 
But I also had kundalini rise the first time I tried to meditate from 
instructions in a book some 3 years prior to learning TM.
 
 Bliss consciousness is shakti and very nice.  Thick and creamy is the best 
kind.  Comes in the tantra bottle. ;-) 
 
 On 04/15/2014 10:04 AM, wgm4u wrote:
 
   

 All that would all be true IF TM'ers actually *transcended to pure 
consciousness* which most don't, IMHO. Pure consciousness is a state of pure 
**bliss** consciousness;  no thought, no mantra and no bliss?,  equals NO pure 
consciousness! Most transcend a little and that's good, but let's not over 
exaggerate here, like MMY did over and over again!
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
 
 Back to the basics:
 http://www.mum.edu/three-categories-of-meditation 
http://www.mum.edu/three-categories-of-meditation

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

2014-04-14 Thread LEnglish5

Ny money is on sophisticated analysis of high resolution EEG and MEG. fMRI is 
pretty low-resolution, time-wise, and the interesting stuff can happen in way 
under a second, which is the ilmitation of all the popular direct brain imaging 
stuff. 

 

 Lawson

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Thanks, Lawson. I think it'll be so much fun when we can see all these 
abstract states, such as absolute faith, right there in the fMRI.
 

 On Saturday, April 12, 2014 4:07 PM, LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   

 IF you have absolute faith in samadhi, that is, if your samadhi is unshakable, 
regardless of circumstances, then the ability to float might manifest.
 

 And placebo might be related to that in some way as there are overlaps in 
which brain circuits are activated during placebo effects and during the 
practice of the TM-Sidhis..
 

 

 There are also overlaps in the brain circuits that activate during pure 
consciousness and during mind-wandering, so placebo being related to siddhis 
practice is like saying that pure consciousness is related to  mind wandering.
 

 

 

 Or something.
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Lawson, thanks for the additional definitions of shraddha. Could you say more 
about your last two sentences? I'm missing your main point somehow.

 On Saturday, April 12, 2014 5:12 AM, LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   If you had the faith of a mustard seed, you could move mountains.
 

 shraddhaa is translated as Faith which can mean trust, or belief without 
proof. The Hebrew word translated as faith means something along the lines of 
strong [in God] and the Greed word means something like intuitive knowledge.
 

 Grok in the original sense of the Martian word for drink seems to contain 
a bit of the same feel.
 

 

 In the context of the siddhis, how about absolute stability of samadhi?
 

 The placebo effect might be related to that, in the same way that 
mind-wandering is related to pure consciousness.
 

 

 

 L
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister@... wrote :

 They might be called to be based on placebo, because, IMU, faith (shraddhaa) 
is the conditio
sine qua non of  samaadhi.

As an analogy, I'll try to explain in English, how I seem to recall to have 
learned to bike (at about 7 years of age).
It might have been the very first time I ever tried to ride a bike. It was a 
women's bike,
the one of the mother of a friend of mine. I just started to ride and kept on, 
believing,
that a couple of other boys were keeping the bike upright. As a stopped, I 
noticed
they were about 30 yards behind me! So I learned to bike because I, falsely,
believed  I couldn't fall (because I believed the other boys were running behind
me keeping the bike upright)! 

So, in a sense my belief was the placebo that instantaneosly
helped me to learn to ride a bike??

Wikipedia:

 Placebo effect and the brain Functional imaging 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_imaging upon placebo analgesia 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analgesia shows that it links to the activation, 
and increased functional correlation between this activation, in the anterior 
cingulate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate, prefrontal 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex, orbitofrontal 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbitofrontal_cortex and insular 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex cortices, nucleus accumbens 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleus_accumbens, amygdala 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala, the brainstem periaqueductal gray matter 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periaqueductal_gray_matter,[84] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-84[85] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-Scott-85[86] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-86 and the spinal cord 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_cord.[87] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-autogenerated2007-87[88] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-88[89] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-89[90] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-90

[FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

If you had the faith of a mustard seed, you could move mountains. 

 shraddhaa is translated as Faith which can mean trust, or belief without 
proof. The Hebrew word translated as faith means something along the lines of 
strong [in God] and the Greed word means something like intuitive knowledge.
 

 Grok in the original sense of the Martian word for drink seems to contain 
a bit of the same feel.
 

 

 In the context of the siddhis, how about absolute stability of samadhi?
 

 The placebo effect might be related to that, in the same way that 
mind-wandering is related to pure consciousness.
 

 

 

 L
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister@... wrote :

 They might be called to be based on placebo, because, IMU, faith (shraddhaa) 
is the conditio
sine qua non of  samaadhi.

As an analogy, I'll try to explain in English, how I seem to recall to have 
learned to bike (at about 7 years of age).
It might have been the very first time I ever tried to ride a bike. It was a 
women's bike,
the one of the mother of a friend of mine. I just started to ride and kept on, 
believing,
that a couple of other boys were keeping the bike upright. As a stopped, I 
noticed
they were about 30 yards behind me! So I learned to bike because I, falsely,
believed  I couldn't fall (because I believed the other boys were running behind
me keeping the bike upright)! 

So, in a sense my belief was the placebo that instantaneosly
helped me to learn to ride a bike??

Wikipedia:

 Placebo effect and the brain Functional imaging 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_imaging upon placebo analgesia 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analgesia shows that it links to the activation, 
and increased functional correlation between this activation, in the anterior 
cingulate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate, prefrontal 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex, orbitofrontal 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbitofrontal_cortex and insular 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex cortices, nucleus accumbens 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleus_accumbens, amygdala 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala, the brainstem periaqueductal gray matter 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periaqueductal_gray_matter,[84] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-84[85] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-Scott-85[86] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-86 and the spinal cord 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_cord.[87] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-autogenerated2007-87[88] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-88[89] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-89[90] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-90

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

I believe that Fred Travis' PhD thesis involved field effect studies on the TM 
Sidhis. That might be the research you're thinking of. 

 The problem is that up until now, all TM EEG research is on many-second 
averages of EEG coherence, and Yogic Flying and any field effects that might be 
associated with it, has been on 40-second averages.
 

 Microstate analysis looks at 1/10 to 1/50 of a second EEG, and sythesizes a 
kind of electrical field graph for the entire brain for each time-slice they 
analyze.
 

 Cool stuff, and has potential in all sorts of studies, like the EEG  of the 
brain as a PC episode  starts and ends, or even doing statistical analysis to 
see if short PC episodes increase in frequency in a nearby meditator when the 
hopping phase of Yogic Flying begins...
 

 http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/EEG_microstates#Event-related_microstates 
http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/EEG_microstates#Event-related_microstates

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 (I think you meant obviously not.)  I mentioned it because I thought 
Bhairitu might find it of interest; he'd been talking about shakti being 
generated, for him, in connection with the TM-Sidhis.. It was just an 
experience; you're welcome to make of it what you will. I wasn't making any 
claims for it except that for me, the tingle in the air the flying sutra 
seems to generate might not be a placebo effect, because at that point (at my 
friend's house) I had never heard any suggestions along those lines, and I had 
no idea what my friend's program involved in terms of timing, i.e., at what 
point she would be using the flying sutra. The tingle was completely 
unexpected, I didn't know what might have been responsible, and it occurred to 
me what it likely was only in retrospect. (BTW, it wasn't 45 minutes. That 
was how long I waited after she'd gone into the room and closed the door before 
I started to meditate. The tingles toward the end of my meditation lasted 
only a few minutes.)
 

 I'm all for testing for spooky stuff. You couldn't test this example using 
me as a subject, though, because I'm no longer innocent. But sure, it would 
be interesting to test for shakti-like effects. Not sure why you'd need a 
Faraday cage; seems to me it would be interesting either way. Maybe shakti is 
electromagnetic in nature (if it exists, of course).
 

 (BTW, I believe there was at least one study of the EEG of a person meditating 
(or not?) at MIU while a large group was doing the TM-Sidhi program at Amherst. 
It reported specific EEG changes in the test subject that were coordinated with 
what the folks were doing in Amherst. The test subject wasn't aware of the 
timing. Maybe Lawson remembers more details of the study. Don't think a Faraday 
cage was used.)
 

 I really can't understand why you'd question my reporting a personal 
experience possibly involving some kind of woo-woo, or what you thought I had 
given away by doing so. You've reported a few of your own such experiences, 
as I recall.
 

 Have you ever questioned Barry about his reports of Fred Lenz levitating? Or 
Bhairitu about his reports of shakti during TM-Sidhis practice, for that matter?
 

 

 

 

 

 Did you think I had suggested it was anything but an anecdote, Salyavin?
 

 Obviously, but you implied it was a spooky event. The 45 minute experience 
when you didn't know what she was doing next door and then realising it was the 
same when you did YF, is what gave it away. 

 

 Data about spooky events would be the most important scientific discovery  
ever, but no one wants to take it further. Things like this would be easy to 
test. We have a subject (you) a method by which it could be tested (comparisons 
between group YF and solo YF or just meditating). all you need is a Faraday 
cage and some positive results and you've rewritten human history. We don't 
take anecdotal data as evidence though, hence my remark.
 

 And I'm sure I could think of a few alternatives to rule out first
 
 

 Ah, if only the plural of anecdote was data...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :

 Thank you. How about his second question, do you have any comments on that? 

 I mean, in theory, just about anything could be seen as potentially a siddhi, 
when the action is performed by a fully enlightened person. What activities 
would provide better stitches between relative and absolute, do you think?
 

 With regard to hopping and muscle power, I partly agree--my experience has 
been that I'm using my muscles, but they aren't being controlled by the usual 
brain pathways somehow. It's more like a sneeze or a knee-jerk reflex or a 
yawn. Like you, I'm no athlete, but hopping never tired me out. And it's 
definitely triggered by the sutra, which in my case fairly quickly became just 
an impulse of something like electricity, a little tingle, no discernible 
words. With a group that was actively hopping, that impulse seemed to be

Re: [FairfieldLife] Ah, mother India, home of all knowledge

Did they pass a law outlawign assisted suicide of widows who were expected to 
throw themselves into their husband's funeral pyre to show how devoted they 
were? 

 I'm guessing this guy wants to repeal those laws also...
 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote :

 This wouldn't surprise anyone who has been to India.  It isn't the 
Shangri-La that many western spiritual enthusiasts imagine.  Think Mexico.  
And now the pendulum is swing from the liberals to the conservatives nutcase 
BJP.
 
 
 On 04/12/2014 05:16 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
 
   It's good for Neo-Hindus to have a role model:
 
 
 'Women Who Have Sex Outside Marriage Should Be Hanged And Rape Is No Big Deal'

 
 
 
 
 'Women Who Have Sex Outside Marriage Should B... It seems that politicians in 
India's largest and most politically important state are currently trying to 
outdo each other by making the most shocking statement pos...


 
 View on www.huffingtonpost...
 Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?


 IF you have absolute faith in samadhi, that is, if your samadhi is unshakable, 
regardless of circumstances, then the ability to float might manifest.
 

 And placebo might be related to that in some way as there are overlaps in 
which brain circuits are activated during placebo effects and during the 
practice of the TM-Sidhis..
 

 

 There are also overlaps in the brain circuits that activate during pure 
consciousness and during mind-wandering, so placebo being related to siddhis 
practice is like saying that pure consciousness is related to  mind wandering.
 

 

 

 Or something.
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :

 Lawson, thanks for the additional definitions of shraddha. Could you say more 
about your last two sentences? I'm missing your main point somehow.

 On Saturday, April 12, 2014 5:12 AM, LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... wrote:
 
   If you had the faith of a mustard seed, you could move mountains.
 

 shraddhaa is translated as Faith which can mean trust, or belief without 
proof. The Hebrew word translated as faith means something along the lines of 
strong [in God] and the Greed word means something like intuitive knowledge.
 

 Grok in the original sense of the Martian word for drink seems to contain 
a bit of the same feel.
 

 

 In the context of the siddhis, how about absolute stability of samadhi?
 

 The placebo effect might be related to that, in the same way that 
mind-wandering is related to pure consciousness.
 

 

 

 L
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister@... wrote :

 They might be called to be based on placebo, because, IMU, faith (shraddhaa) 
is the conditio
sine qua non of  samaadhi.

As an analogy, I'll try to explain in English, how I seem to recall to have 
learned to bike (at about 7 years of age).
It might have been the very first time I ever tried to ride a bike. It was a 
women's bike,
the one of the mother of a friend of mine. I just started to ride and kept on, 
believing,
that a couple of other boys were keeping the bike upright. As a stopped, I 
noticed
they were about 30 yards behind me! So I learned to bike because I, falsely,
believed  I couldn't fall (because I believed the other boys were running behind
me keeping the bike upright)! 

So, in a sense my belief was the placebo that instantaneosly
helped me to learn to ride a bike??

Wikipedia:

 Placebo effect and the brain Functional imaging 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_imaging upon placebo analgesia 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analgesia shows that it links to the activation, 
and increased functional correlation between this activation, in the anterior 
cingulate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate, prefrontal 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex, orbitofrontal 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbitofrontal_cortex and insular 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex cortices, nucleus accumbens 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleus_accumbens, amygdala 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala, the brainstem periaqueductal gray matter 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periaqueductal_gray_matter,[84] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-84[85] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-Scott-85[86] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-86 and the spinal cord 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_cord.[87] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-autogenerated2007-87[88] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-88[89] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-89[90] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#cite_note-90

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?