[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Jeez. Here's Curtis the atheist, threatening Judy, also an atheist by most standards, with divine retribution if she continues to call attention to his dishonesty. Now, *that's* weird. Sorry if it was unclear. The Pulp Fiction quote is what your you are a liar routine sounds like to me. I don't want to fight with you Judy. I hope all your desires, TM and otherwise get fulfilled. Just to help out, I thinnk the only thing that explains Judy's comment below (stupidity doesn't seem to explain it) is that she has never seen the film Pulp Fiction. That's correct, I never have. The speech quoted by Curtis is delivered by Jules, a professional hit man, just before he kills someone. Therefore the content of the speech, claiming to be the righteous hand of God, becomes a wry commentary on his real actions. Get it now? You'd really have to see the film to get how clever ther reference is. It's clever to compare me to a Scripture-quoting murderer? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The speech quoted by Curtis is delivered by Jules, a professional hit man, just before he kills someone. Therefore the content of the speech, claiming to be the righteous hand of God, becomes a wry commentary on his real actions. Get it now? Say, Barry, I could have sworn you delivered one of your long rants just a few days ago about how TMers allegedly react to personal criticism by labeling the critic an extremist. You'd really have to see the film to get how clever ther reference is. Yet you seem to *approve* of it when Curtis does exactly what you were complaining about. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Sorry if it was unclear. The Pulp Fiction quote is what your you are a liar routine sounds like to me. One more point here: I haven't called you a liar. What I've said is that you are *dishonest*. There's a lot of ways to be dishonest without actually lying. But objecting to You are a liar, complete with quotes as though that is what I'd actually said, sounds so much more impressive, doesn't it? I have explained in some detail how your participation in this current exchange has been dishonest. Interestingly, instead of responding, you've compared me to a Scripture-quoting murderer. Oddly enough, that kind of behavior--reacting to criticism of personal behavior by labeling the critic an extremist--is just what Barry was attributing to TMers and loudly decrying in a long rant a few days ago. And here you are, doing just exactly that. Think Barry will object? Nope. IOKIYAAT. I don't want to fight with you Judy. You sure don't, because you don't want to have your dishonest charades exposed. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
dis·hon·estPronunciation Key (ds-nst) adj. 1. Disposed to lie, cheat, defraud, or deceive. 2. Resulting from or marked by a lack of honesty. You are going to want to correct those silly folks over at dictionary.com about this. You are trying to make this distinction so you can imply that I am lying without any proof. It is a predictable move that you have pulled too often in our discussions. I accept that you hold a different view of flying than I do. I don't need to resort to this unfriendly tactic. You are still missing the point of my Pulp Fiction quote. You have positioned yourself as a person on this group who is specially qualified to determine what is true. It makes discussions with you so unpleasant, that most people can only weather a few rounds with your constant barrage, and then they give up frustrated. You are not superior to the other posters here. You are just offering your own opinion about these topics. If you would learn to treat people with respect and kindness you would not end up in these contentions, unpleasant debates. But you are choosing this view and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. I believe that you enjoy feeling self-righteous and angry in your communications on this group. It is a choice. So if you treat people this way, don't be surprised if they don't want to discuss topics with you. The weird thing is that I think you enjoy these discussions, but you kill them off with your unpleasantness. I don't think you can help it. For the record, as you like to say, my communications with you have been my sincere opinions about the topics we have discussed. I am not right about all sorts of things in this world. I have been wrong plenty of times in my life. I may be wrong about the opinions expressed here. But they are my honest opinions and I will discuss them with anyone who treats me respectfully. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip Sorry if it was unclear. The Pulp Fiction quote is what your you are a liar routine sounds like to me. One more point here: I haven't called you a liar. What I've said is that you are *dishonest*. There's a lot of ways to be dishonest without actually lying. But objecting to You are a liar, complete with quotes as though that is what I'd actually said, sounds so much more impressive, doesn't it? I have explained in some detail how your participation in this current exchange has been dishonest. Interestingly, instead of responding, you've compared me to a Scripture-quoting murderer. Oddly enough, that kind of behavior--reacting to criticism of personal behavior by labeling the critic an extremist--is just what Barry was attributing to TMers and loudly decrying in a long rant a few days ago. And here you are, doing just exactly that. Think Barry will object? Nope. IOKIYAAT. I don't want to fight with you Judy. You sure don't, because you don't want to have your dishonest charades exposed. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Thanks for trying Turq! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Jeez. Here's Curtis the atheist, threatening Judy, also an atheist by most standards, with divine retribution if she continues to call attention to his dishonesty. Now, *that's* weird. Sorry if it was unclear. The Pulp Fiction quote is what your you are a liar routine sounds like to me. I don't want to fight with you Judy. I hope all your desires, TM and otherwise get fulfilled. Just to help out, I thinnk the only thing that explains Judy's comment below (stupidity doesn't seem to explain it) is that she has never seen the film Pulp Fiction. The speech quoted by Curtis is delivered by Jules, a professional hit man, just before he kills someone. Therefore the content of the speech, claiming to be the righteous hand of God, becomes a wry commentary on his real actions. Get it now? You'd really have to see the film to get how clever ther reference is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Judy: You have it exactly backward. I'm trying to help others see that dishonesty is intolerable, ESPECIALLY on a so-called spiritual forum. JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. Not tolerating dishonesty is equivalent to self-regard?? How does that work, exactly? Come to think of it, what on *earth* leads you to believe quoting the Bible at me is likely to inspire me to change my ways? Jeez. Here's Curtis the atheist, threatening Judy, also an atheist by most standards, with divine retribution if she continues to call attention to his dishonesty. Now, *that's* weird. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dis·hon·estPronunciation Key (ds-nst) adj. 1. Disposed to lie, cheat, defraud, or deceive. 2. Resulting from or marked by a lack of honesty. You are going to want to correct those silly folks over at dictionary.com about this. Um, no, those definitions will do just fine for what I'm talking about. What exactly did you think I'd have to correct? You are trying to make this distinction so you can imply that I am lying without any proof. No, I'm making the distinction because there *is* such a distinction. I'd have no hesitation about saying you were lying if you had lied (and I never do that without documenting it). It is a predictable move that you have pulled too often in our discussions. I accept that you hold a different view of flying than I do. I don't need to resort to this unfriendly tactic. Has nothing *whatsoever* to do with our different views of flying. It has to do with your sleazy (i.e., dishonest) debating tactics (and I've clearly specified what they are). You are still missing the point of my Pulp Fiction quote. You have positioned yourself as a person on this group who is specially qualified to determine what is true. No, I have done no such thing. I suspect you have that idea because you expect to get away with your dishonesty and are astonished to find that you can't. It makes discussions with you so unpleasant, that most people can only weather a few rounds with your constant barrage, and then they give up frustrated. You are not superior to the other posters here. Certainly not, nor did I ever suggest I was. You are just offering your own opinion about these topics. If you would learn to treat people with respect and kindness you would not end up in these contentions, unpleasant debates. Dishonesty is neither respectful nor kind. What makes you think you deserve to be treated with respect and kindness in return for your dishonesty? But you are choosing this view and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. I believe that you enjoy feeling self-righteous and angry in your communications on this group. You can believe whatever makes you feel better. The *fact*, however, is that I prefer respectful, honest discussions--such as the one I had with you about the Schroedinger quote. You seem to have erased that one from your memory, since it doesn't jibe with what you'd like to believe about me. It is a choice. So if you treat people this way, don't be surprised if they don't want to discuss topics with you. Anybody is free to discuss or not discuss anything with me. That they don't want to have a discussion with me, however, doesn't mean I'm going to stop commenting, especially when they've posted something dishonest. The weird thing is that I think you enjoy these discussions, but you kill them off with your unpleasantness. I don't think you can help it. Think what you like. It could also be that certain people are afraid to engage in discussions with me because they've learned they can't get away with the dishonest tactics they've come to depend on. For the record, as you like to say, my communications with you have been my sincere opinions about the topics we have discussed. I am not right about all sorts of things in this world. I have been wrong plenty of times in my life. I may be wrong about the opinions expressed here. But they are my honest opinions and I will discuss them with anyone who treats me respectfully. Again: It has nothing to do with your opinions, it has to do with your dishonest manner of debating them. And I've never accused you of being insincere in your opinions. It may make you more comfortable to think that I accuse you of dishonesty simply because I disagree with you, but you're just being dishonest with yourself. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Judy: You have it exactly backward. I'm trying to help others see that dishonesty is intolerable, ESPECIALLY on a so-called spiritual forum. JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] quoted: JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. LOL. :-) Either that or have an epiphany similar to Jules' and give it all up in favor of walking the earth, like Caine in Kung Fu. :-) Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. Here's an interesting quote from another of them: Indeed it is all too difficult to get the heretics to reveal themselves when they hide their errors, instead of frankly confessing them, or when reliable and adequate testimony against them is lacking. In such a case all kinds of problems confront the Inquisitor... Laymen of staunch faith find it a scandalous matter if an inquisitorial trial, once begun, is abandoned for some kind of lack of method. When they see the learned thus deceived by common and vile persons, the faith of the Faithful is to some degree weakened; for they believe that we have at our disposal luminous and certain arguments that cannot be refuted, and that they expect us to be able to vanquish [the heretics] in such a way that even a layman can clearly follow the arguments. It is therefore inexpedient in the presence of laymen to debate matters of faith with heretics who are so astute. Practica Inquisitionis Heretice Pravitatis Bernardo Gui, 1323. trans. Peter Amann. 1967 He goes on in the Practica Inquisitionis to outline the method that should be used instead -- vilify them such that the 'Faithful' discredit anything that the people being declared heretics have to say. Bernardo Gui was clear in his instructions to the young Inquisitors he was trying to train that *any* method they chose to use to vilify and discredit the heretics was not only legal, but blessed by God, because they were protecting the Faithful. Distorting the truth was permissible. Distracting onlookers by focusing on nitpicks was permissible. Basically *anything* was permissible, because they were doing God's work. Doesn't his phrase luminous and certain arguments that cannot be refuted have a familiar ring to it? Those who consider themselves God's Mind Police feel that they have such arguments at their disposal, and that these arguments are supposed to be able to vanquish any critics or those who deviate from the dogma. When those with the mindset of an Inquisitor speak these luminous and certain arguments that they have been taught to parrot, they tend to *assume* that the matter is settled, and that they have vanquished the heretic in question. So when, against expectation, the heretics refuse to be vanquished (meaning, both for Gui and for certain people on this forum, that they don't *confess* to their sins publicly), then there is only one alternative left to the godly -- vilify them, and attempt to get the Faithful to ignore anything they say in the future before they even say it, for their own protection. The impression is to be given to the onlookers (the Faithful) that listening to anything these heretics say is *dangerous* for them, and could put their immortal souls in peril. The instructions in Gui's manual for Inquisitors go on to state that the moment the Inquistors realize in a trial they have a heretic on their hands who is *not* going to confess, or who shows intelligence and convic- tion in his beliefs, or who dares to talk back to them as if they are not the Ultimate Authority, what they should do is to stop talking directly to the heretic, and instead *start* preaching to the Faithful. The goal is to cover the fact that they have been unable to get the heretic to confess, and to concentrate instead on convincng the bystanders of the heretic's supposed sins. Sound familiar? Of course, for the Inquisitors, the next step would be to rush the heretics out of the room and torture them until their minds were broken and they finally *were* willing to confess in public. If the heretic died before confessing, the young Inquisitors were instructed to tell the 'Faithful' who had seen them defy the Inquisition that the heretics *had* confessed and re-embraced the Church, just before dying. Just be thankful that the TM fanatics don't have torture available to them as a debating tactic, because I don't think I'm alone here in
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy: You have it exactly backward. I'm trying to help others see that dishonesty is intolerable, ESPECIALLY on a so-called spiritual forum. JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. Not tolerating dishonesty is equivalent to self-regard?? How does that work, exactly? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. But it's not at all mind-blowing when someone whose modus operandi (operandum?) is dishonesty finds his mind blown that anyone would *object* to that dishonesty. Such a person feels entitled to be as dishonest as he wants; the ends of pushing his agenda justify the dishonest means. The person who objects is actually infringing on his rights. What an outrage! (It's fine, BTW, for dishonest people to accuse those who object to their dishonesty of being dishonest; and they aren't even required to provide any specifics of the accusations.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. But it's not at all mind-blowing when someone whose modus operandi (operandum?) is dishonesty finds his mind blown that anyone would *object* to that dishonesty. Such a person feels entitled to be as dishonest as he wants; the ends of pushing his agenda justify the dishonest means. The person who objects is actually infringing on his rights. What an outrage! (It's fine, BTW, for dishonest people to accuse those who object to their dishonesty of being dishonest; and they aren't even required to provide any specifics of the accusations.) I quote from the post being replied to, since she did not: The instructions in Gui's manual for Inquisitors go on to state that the moment the Inquistors realize in a trial they have a heretic on their hands who is *not* going to confess, or who shows intelligence and convic- tion in his beliefs, or who dares to talk back to them as if they are not the Ultimate Authority, what they should do is to stop talking directly to the heretic, and instead *start* preaching to the Faithful. Point made. Stepping out of the fray now... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
I was definitely thinking that you would dig that quote! Your inquisition quotes are very interesting. Funny, sad, scary, and fucked up all at once! Good find. I need to look into some of that material. It is a fascinating study. I think it applies very well to the usual movement style of discrediting critics. I was accused of never meditating correctly by some MIU officials when I spoke out against TM years ago. Here I think we are dealing with something different, something more personal. Sometimes the most vitriolic people are really the most fragile. It would be unkind to say more, but I suspect you already know everything I could say about this! Thanks for your post and I'm glad you got a chuckle out of our man Jules! Did you see that Samuel Jackson will be the voice of God in an audio Bible? http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/jackson%20voices%20god_1002655 I can' t remember if I got this item on this group or somewhere else. It sounds like something a couple of stoners would come up with in between bong hits doesn't it! Dde, you know what would be totally col. Make an audio Bible and have Samuel Jackson play the voice of God! That could never happen! Thanks again for the great quotes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ quoted: JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. LOL. :-) Either that or have an epiphany similar to Jules' and give it all up in favor of walking the earth, like Caine in Kung Fu. :-) Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. Here's an interesting quote from another of them: Indeed it is all too difficult to get the heretics to reveal themselves when they hide their errors, instead of frankly confessing them, or when reliable and adequate testimony against them is lacking. In such a case all kinds of problems confront the Inquisitor... Laymen of staunch faith find it a scandalous matter if an inquisitorial trial, once begun, is abandoned for some kind of lack of method. When they see the learned thus deceived by common and vile persons, the faith of the Faithful is to some degree weakened; for they believe that we have at our disposal luminous and certain arguments that cannot be refuted, and that they expect us to be able to vanquish [the heretics] in such a way that even a layman can clearly follow the arguments. It is therefore inexpedient in the presence of laymen to debate matters of faith with heretics who are so astute. Practica Inquisitionis Heretice Pravitatis Bernardo Gui, 1323. trans. Peter Amann. 1967 He goes on in the Practica Inquisitionis to outline the method that should be used instead -- vilify them such that the 'Faithful' discredit anything that the people being declared heretics have to say. Bernardo Gui was clear in his instructions to the young Inquisitors he was trying to train that *any* method they chose to use to vilify and discredit the heretics was not only legal, but blessed by God, because they were protecting the Faithful. Distorting the truth was permissible. Distracting onlookers by focusing on nitpicks was permissible. Basically *anything* was permissible, because they were doing God's work. Doesn't his phrase luminous and certain arguments that cannot be refuted have a familiar ring to it? Those who consider themselves God's Mind Police feel that they have such arguments at their disposal, and that these arguments are supposed to be able to vanquish any critics or those who deviate from the dogma. When those with the mindset of an Inquisitor speak these luminous and certain arguments that they have been taught to parrot, they tend to *assume* that the matter is settled, and that they have vanquished the heretic in question. So when, against expectation, the heretics refuse to be vanquished (meaning, both for Gui and for certain people on this forum, that they don't *confess* to their sins publicly), then there is only one alternative left to the godly -- vilify them, and attempt to get the Faithful to ignore anything they say in the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. But it's not at all mind-blowing when someone whose modus operandi (operandum?) is dishonesty finds his mind blown that anyone would *object* to that dishonesty. Such a person feels entitled to be as dishonest as he wants; the ends of pushing his agenda justify the dishonest means. The person who objects is actually infringing on his rights. What an outrage! (It's fine, BTW, for dishonest people to accuse those who object to their dishonesty of being dishonest; and they aren't even required to provide any specifics of the accusations.) I quote from the post being replied to, since she did not: The instructions in Gui's manual for Inquisitors go on to state that the moment the Inquistors realize in a trial they have a heretic on their hands who is *not* going to confess, or who shows intelligence and convic- tion in his beliefs, or who dares to talk back to them as if they are not the Ultimate Authority, what they should do is to stop talking directly to the heretic, and instead *start* preaching to the Faithful. You mean, just like you were doing in the post I was replying to, and are doing again now? What did the Inquisition have to say about hypocrisy, Barry, anything? Point made. No, 'fraid not. Or rather, you've made *my* point about your dishonesty, and your sense of entitlement to be dishonest, in spades. You almost always make my points better than I ever could. Stepping out of the fray now... Uh-huh. Won't hold my breath. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was definitely thinking that you would dig that quote! Your inquisition quotes are very interesting. Funny, sad, scary, and fucked up all at once! Good find. I need to look into some of that material. It is a fascinating study. I think it applies very well to the usual movement style of discrediting critics. I was accused of never meditating correctly by some MIU officials when I spoke out against TM years ago. Here I think we are dealing with something different, something more personal. Yes, we're dealing with--or rather, I'm dealing with, and you're assiduously avoiding--dishonesty on the part of individuals. Think about this for just a minute: Of those on this forum, *most* are frequently sharply critical of TM. But I don't call those critics dishonest or attempt to discredit them. What do you think the difference could possibly be between you and Barry and Vaj, and all the other critics here? Sometimes the most vitriolic people are really the most fragile. It would be unkind to say more, but I suspect you already know everything I could say about this! ROTFL! Yes, Barry has had long experience with my fragility. Just ask him. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: think we are dealing with something different, something more personal. Sometimes the most vitriolic people are really the most fragile. It would be unkind to say more, but I suspect you already know everything I could say about this! Thanks for your post and I'm glad you got a chuckle out of our man Jules! Did you see that Samuel Jackson will be the voice of God in an audio Bible? I simply cannot wait to hear him read Arabica 4:13, as God describes his morning coffee: Mmmm! Goddamn, Jimmie! This is some serious gourmet shit! Usually, me and the heavenly host would be happy with some freeze-dried Taster's Choice, but you spring this serious GOURMET shit on us! What flavor is this? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Brilliant! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: think we are dealing with something different, something more personal. Sometimes the most vitriolic people are really the most fragile. It would be unkind to say more, but I suspect you already know everything I could say about this! Thanks for your post and I'm glad you got a chuckle out of our man Jules! Did you see that Samuel Jackson will be the voice of God in an audio Bible? I simply cannot wait to hear him read Arabica 4:13, as God describes his morning coffee: Mmmm! Goddamn, Jimmie! This is some serious gourmet shit! Usually, me and the heavenly host would be happy with some freeze-dried Taster's Choice, but you spring this serious GOURMET shit on us! What flavor is this? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
I can't help help thinking that Jackson's famous Bible quote (actually it's not a direct quote of the Bible but a compilation) from "Pulp Fiction" helped get him the part of God: JACKSON VOICES GOD Also see: SAMUEL L JACKSON Movie superstar SAMUEL L JACKSON will voice God in a new audio version of the Bible. The taped recording of the New Testament will feature many famous other black actors and musicians. Jackson was given the lead role because producers felt his deep, authorative voice was perfect for the role of God. A source tells British newspaper The Daily Telegraph, "Samuel's just finished recording a CD set of the New Testament. The recording is due to be released in September (06), with a box set of the Old Testament to follow next year (07). "Scores of other black actors, musicians and athletes will also figure, but Samuel was deemed to be the perfect person to play God."16/07/2006 23:41 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was definitely thinking that you would dig that quote! Your inquisition quotes are very interesting. Funny, sad, scary, and fucked up all at once! Good find. I need to look into some of that material. It is a fascinating study. I think it applies very well to the usual movement style of discrediting critics. I was accused of "never meditating correctly" by some MIU officials when I spoke out against TM years ago. Here I think we are dealing with something different, something more personal. Sometimes the most vitriolic people are really the most fragile. It would be unkind to say more, but I suspect you already know everything I could say about this! Thanks for your post and I'm glad you got a chuckle out of our man Jules! Did you see that Samuel Jackson will be the voice of God in an audio Bible? http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/jackson%20voices%20god_1002655 I can' t remember if I got this item on this group or somewhere else. It sounds like something a couple of stoners would come up with in between bong hits doesn't it! "Dde, you know what would be totally col. Make an audio Bible and have Samuel Jackson play the voice of God! That could never happen!" Thanks again for the great quotes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" curtisdeltablues@ quoted: JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a biton your self-regard.LOL. :-)Either that or have an epiphany similar to Jules' and give it all up in favor of walking the earth, like Caine in Kung Fu. :-)Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. Here's an interesting quote from another of them:"Indeed it is all too difficult to get the heretics to reveal themselves when they hide their errors, instead of frankly confessing them, or when reliable and adequate testimony against them is lacking. In such a case all kinds of problems confront the Inquisitor... Laymen of staunch faith find it a scandalous matter if an inquisitorial trial, once begun, is abandoned for some kind of lack of method. When they see the learned thus deceived by common and vile persons, the faith of the Faithful is to some degree weakened; for they believe that we have at our disposal luminous and certain arguments that cannot be refuted, and that they expect us to be able to vanquish [the heretics] in such a way that even a layman can clearly follow the arguments. It is therefore inexpedient in the presence of laymen to debate matters of faith with heretics who are so astute."Practica Inquisitionis Heretice Pravitatis Bernardo Gui, 1323. trans. Peter Amann. 1967He goes on in the Practica Inquisitionis to outline the method that should be used instead -- vilify them such that the 'Faithful' discredit anything that the people being declared heretics have to say. Bernardo Gui was clear in his instructions to the young Inquisitors he was trying to train that *any* method they chose to use to vilify and discredit the "heretics" was not only legal, but blessed by God, because they were "protecting the Faithful."Distorting the truth was permissible. Distracting onlookers by
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
In my haste to respond to your reproduction of the Pulp Fiction quote I didn't notice that you, too, had read that he was going to play the voice of God. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was definitely thinking that you would dig that quote! Your inquisition quotes are very interesting. Funny, sad, scary, and fucked up all at once! Good find. I need to look into some of that material. It is a fascinating study. I think it applies very well to the usual movement style of discrediting critics. I was accused of never meditating correctly by some MIU officials when I spoke out against TM years ago. Here I think we are dealing with something different, something more personal. Sometimes the most vitriolic people are really the most fragile. It would be unkind to say more, but I suspect you already know everything I could say about this! Thanks for your post and I'm glad you got a chuckle out of our man Jules! Did you see that Samuel Jackson will be the voice of God in an audio Bible? http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/jackson%20voices% 20god_1002655 I can' t remember if I got this item on this group or somewhere else. It sounds like something a couple of stoners would come up with in between bong hits doesn't it! Dde, you know what would be totally col. Make an audio Bible and have Samuel Jackson play the voice of God! That could never happen! Thanks again for the great quotes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ quoted: JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. LOL. :-) Either that or have an epiphany similar to Jules' and give it all up in favor of walking the earth, like Caine in Kung Fu. :-) Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. Here's an interesting quote from another of them: Indeed it is all too difficult to get the heretics to reveal themselves when they hide their errors, instead of frankly confessing them, or when reliable and adequate testimony against them is lacking. In such a case all kinds of problems confront the Inquisitor... Laymen of staunch faith find it a scandalous matter if an inquisitorial trial, once begun, is abandoned for some kind of lack of method. When they see the learned thus deceived by common and vile persons, the faith of the Faithful is to some degree weakened; for they believe that we have at our disposal luminous and certain arguments that cannot be refuted, and that they expect us to be able to vanquish [the heretics] in such a way that even a layman can clearly follow the arguments. It is therefore inexpedient in the presence of laymen to debate matters of faith with heretics who are so astute. Practica Inquisitionis Heretice Pravitatis Bernardo Gui, 1323. trans. Peter Amann. 1967 He goes on in the Practica Inquisitionis to outline the method that should be used instead -- vilify them such that the 'Faithful' discredit anything that the people being declared heretics have to say. Bernardo Gui was clear in his instructions to the young Inquisitors he was trying to train that *any* method they chose to use to vilify and discredit the heretics was not only legal, but blessed by God, because they were protecting the Faithful. Distorting the truth was permissible. Distracting onlookers by focusing on nitpicks was permissible. Basically *anything* was permissible, because they were doing God's work. Doesn't his phrase luminous and certain arguments that cannot be refuted have a familiar ring to it? Those who consider themselves God's Mind Police feel that they have such arguments at their disposal, and that these arguments are supposed to be able to vanquish any critics or those who deviate from the dogma. When those with the mindset of an Inquisitor speak these luminous and certain arguments that they have been taught to parrot, they tend to *assume* that the matter is settled, and that they have vanquished the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't help help thinking that Jackson's famous Bible quote (actually it's not a direct quote of the Bible but a compilation) from Pulp Fiction helped get him the part of God: Makes me wonder, however, how many actual lines he could have. Admittedly, it has been decades since I read the full Bible, but I don't remember very many verses that started, God said..., followed by his actual words. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: I can't help help thinking that Jackson's famous Bible quote (actually it's not a direct quote of the Bible but a compilation) from Pulp Fiction helped get him the part of God: Makes me wonder, however, how many actual lines he could have. Admittedly, it has been decades since I read the full Bible, but I don't remember very many verses that started, God said..., followed by his actual words. Lots, actually, at least in the Hebrew Scriptures. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Go here and type in God said in the word/phrase search. http://www.blueletterbible.org/ There is a lot more work for him than you would think! Reading it in his voice makes me want to re-read the whole thing! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: I can't help help thinking that Jackson's famous Bible quote (actually it's not a direct quote of the Bible but a compilation) from Pulp Fiction helped get him the part of God: Makes me wonder, however, how many actual lines he could have. Admittedly, it has been decades since I read the full Bible, but I don't remember very many verses that started, God said..., followed by his actual words. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my haste to respond to your reproduction of the Pulp Fiction quote I didn't notice that you, too, had read that he was going to play the voice of God. I don't think it can be posted too often! It makes me laugh out loud every time I see it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I was definitely thinking that you would dig that quote! Your inquisition quotes are very interesting. Funny, sad, scary, and fucked up all at once! Good find. I need to look into some of that material. It is a fascinating study. I think it applies very well to the usual movement style of discrediting critics. I was accused of never meditating correctly by some MIU officials when I spoke out against TM years ago. Here I think we are dealing with something different, something more personal. Sometimes the most vitriolic people are really the most fragile. It would be unkind to say more, but I suspect you already know everything I could say about this! Thanks for your post and I'm glad you got a chuckle out of our man Jules! Did you see that Samuel Jackson will be the voice of God in an audio Bible? http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/jackson%20voices% 20god_1002655 I can' t remember if I got this item on this group or somewhere else. It sounds like something a couple of stoners would come up with in between bong hits doesn't it! Dde, you know what would be totally col. Make an audio Bible and have Samuel Jackson play the voice of God! That could never happen! Thanks again for the great quotes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ quoted: JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. LOL. :-) Either that or have an epiphany similar to Jules' and give it all up in favor of walking the earth, like Caine in Kung Fu. :-) Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. Here's an interesting quote from another of them: Indeed it is all too difficult to get the heretics to reveal themselves when they hide their errors, instead of frankly confessing them, or when reliable and adequate testimony against them is lacking. In such a case all kinds of problems confront the Inquisitor... Laymen of staunch faith find it a scandalous matter if an inquisitorial trial, once begun, is abandoned for some kind of lack of method. When they see the learned thus deceived by common and vile persons, the faith of the Faithful is to some degree weakened; for they believe that we have at our disposal luminous and certain arguments that cannot be refuted, and that they expect us to be able to vanquish [the heretics] in such a way that even a layman can clearly follow the arguments. It is therefore inexpedient in the presence of laymen to debate matters of faith with heretics who are so astute. Practica Inquisitionis Heretice Pravitatis Bernardo Gui, 1323. trans. Peter Amann. 1967 He goes on in the Practica Inquisitionis to outline the method that should be used instead -- vilify them such that the 'Faithful' discredit anything that the people being declared heretics have to say. Bernardo Gui was clear in his instructions to the young Inquisitors he was trying to train that *any* method they chose to use to vilify and discredit the heretics was not only legal, but blessed by God, because they were protecting the Faithful. Distorting the truth was permissible. Distracting onlookers by focusing on nitpicks was permissible. Basically *anything* was permissible, because they were doing God's work. Doesn't his phrase luminous and certain arguments that cannot be refuted have a familiar ring to it? Those who consider themselves God's Mind Police feel that they have such arguments at their disposal, and that these arguments are supposed to
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. But it's not at all mind-blowing when someone whose modus operandi (operandum?) is modus is subjective case. Operandi is genative: Operation's method. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. But it's not at all mind-blowing when someone whose modus operandi (operandum?) is modus is subjective case. Operandi is genative: Operation's method. Thank you. ;-) Never took Latin; wish I had. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Judy: You have it exactly backward. I'm trying to help others see that dishonesty is intolerable, ESPECIALLY on a so-called spiritual forum. JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. Not tolerating dishonesty is equivalent to self-regard?? How does that work, exactly? Come to think of it, what on *earth* leads you to believe quoting the Bible at me is likely to inspire me to change my ways? Jeez. Here's Curtis the atheist, threatening Judy, also an atheist by most standards, with divine retribution if she continues to call attention to his dishonesty. Now, *that's* weird. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. But it's not at all mind-blowing when someone whose modus operandi (operandum?) is modus is subjective case. Operandi is genative: Operation's method. Thank you. ;-) Never took Latin; wish I had. It's the only way to understand our psuedo-grammer. Split infinities are forbidden in English because they're impossible in Latin and our grammer is based on Latin, not Old German or whatever. This explains a lot, doesn't it? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. But it's not at all mind-blowing when someone whose modus operandi (operandum?) is modus is subjective case. Operandi is genative: Operation's method. Thank you. ;-) Never took Latin; wish I had. It's the only way to understand our psuedo-grammer. Split infinities are forbidden in English because they're impossible in Latin and our grammer is based on Latin, not Old German or whatever. This explains a lot, doesn't it? I'm not sure split infinities are possible in *any* language. I mean, when you split an infinity, don't you just get two infinities? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Jeez. Here's Curtis the atheist, threatening Judy, also an atheist by most standards, with divine retribution if she continues to call attention to his dishonesty. Now, *that's* weird. Sorry if it was unclear. The Pulp Fiction quote is what your you are a liar routine sounds like to me. I don't want to fight with you Judy. I hope all your desires, TM and otherwise get fulfilled. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Judy: You have it exactly backward. I'm trying to help others see that dishonesty is intolerable, ESPECIALLY on a so-called spiritual forum. JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. Not tolerating dishonesty is equivalent to self-regard?? How does that work, exactly? Come to think of it, what on *earth* leads you to believe quoting the Bible at me is likely to inspire me to change my ways? Jeez. Here's Curtis the atheist, threatening Judy, also an atheist by most standards, with divine retribution if she continues to call attention to his dishonesty. Now, *that's* weird. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Really, the mentality of those who consider them- selves the moral mind police of the world is mind- blowing sometimes. But it's not at all mind-blowing when someone whose modus operandi (operandum?) is modus is subjective case. Operandi is genative: Operation's method. Thank you. ;-) Never took Latin; wish I had. It's the only way to understand our psuedo-grammer. Split infinities are forbidden in English because they're impossible in Latin and our grammer is based on Latin, not Old German or whatever. This explains a lot, doesn't it? I'm not sure split infinities are possible in *any* language. I mean, when you split an infinity, don't you just get two infinities? Doh. I meant split infinitive. And not necessarily: you can have 1 and all the rest -- that's only one infinite set there. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [I wrote:] Jeez. Here's Curtis the atheist, threatening Judy, also an atheist by most standards, with divine retribution if she continues to call attention to his dishonesty. Now, *that's* weird. Sorry if it was unclear. The Pulp Fiction quote is what your you are a liar routine sounds like to me. If I sound to you like the Voice of God, you've got problems even worse than dishonesty, Curtis. I don't want to fight with you Judy. I hope all your desires, TM and otherwise get fulfilled. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Judy: You have it exactly backward. I'm trying to help others see that dishonesty is intolerable, ESPECIALLY on a so-called spiritual forum. JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. Not tolerating dishonesty is equivalent to self-regard?? How does that work, exactly? Come to think of it, what on *earth* leads you to believe quoting the Bible at me is likely to inspire me to change my ways? Jeez. Here's Curtis the atheist, threatening Judy, also an atheist by most standards, with divine retribution if she continues to call attention to his dishonesty. Now, *that's* weird. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeez. Here's Curtis the atheist, threatening Judy, also an atheist by most standards, with divine retribution if she continues to call attention to his dishonesty. Now, *that's* weird. Sorry if it was unclear. The Pulp Fiction quote is what your you are a liar routine sounds like to me. I don't want to fight with you Judy. I hope all your desires, TM and otherwise get fulfilled. Just to help out, I thinnk the only thing that explains Judy's comment below (stupidity doesn't seem to explain it) is that she has never seen the film Pulp Fiction. The speech quoted by Curtis is delivered by Jules, a professional hit man, just before he kills someone. Therefore the content of the speech, claiming to be the righteous hand of God, becomes a wry commentary on his real actions. Get it now? You'd really have to see the film to get how clever ther reference is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Judy: You have it exactly backward. I'm trying to help others see that dishonesty is intolerable, ESPECIALLY on a so-called spiritual forum. JULES (Pulp Fiction) There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Just a thought Judy...you might want to dial back a bit on your self-regard. Not tolerating dishonesty is equivalent to self-regard?? How does that work, exactly? Come to think of it, what on *earth* leads you to believe quoting the Bible at me is likely to inspire me to change my ways? Jeez. Here's Curtis the atheist, threatening Judy, also an atheist by most standards, with divine retribution if she continues to call attention to his dishonesty. Now, *that's* weird. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
I just want to point out one more instance of Curtis's sleazy avoidance tactics: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip The authority based belief systems all have this flaw. If you had been given the flying sutra blind, without all the hype, would you conclude that you were about to stay in the air? I didn't conclude that even *with* the hype, Curtis. However, if I'd had no idea what was supposed to happen, but had the same subjective experiences, there would have come a point when I suddenly recognized what was supposed to happen, because at times, at the apex of a hop, I have the sense for a split-second that I'm not going to come down again. This is a *visceral* sense, not any kind of intellectual notion. It's something my body knows. snip I would never challenge your right to practice something that gives you pleasure or benefit. I'm glad you have found something that you value. My comments are directed to MMY's organization that promotes the idea that people can fly but have shown no proof that even remotely suggests that someday people will fly. Hopping is not the first stage of flying, it is the last stage of hopping around. It also hurts your back so I hope you are careful. What you may feel during the experience has nothing to do with the reality of it. When I practiced flying I would have described it the way you have. I think you have a pretty grounded view of its place in your life and a healthy let's see attitude about the more extravagant claims. I would love to be proved wrong about people flying but there are more obvious things to test right now, especially in medical areas. Curtis asked, rhetorically, whether without the hype about flying, I would have known what was supposed to happen as a result of practicing the flying sutra. The implied answer to his question, of course, was No, and this was supposed to demonstrate that the idea that people could fly was solely a function of the hype, not of any experience of the sutra itself. My response was that, yes, I would have known after some period of practice, based only on my experience of the sutra. At least in my case, Curtis's assumption about the role of the hype is in error. Does Curtis acknowledge this? Of course not. He even claims my experience has nothing to do with it--despite the fact that this is what he was asking about in the first place. He also says he would describe his experience the same way. If so, even his *own* experience shows that the assumption in his rhetorical question is in error. If this isn't an example of irrationality and serious deficiency in critical thinking, I don't know what is. More likely, it's an example of Curtis's lack of integrity when debating TM issues, something I had occasion to draw attention to many times in my previous discussions with him on alt.m.t years ago. It is also, in my observation, typical of those I label anti-TMers and is one of the main aspects of how I define them. While they routinely claim it's TMers who are irrational, illogical, deficient in critical thinking, or even deliberately deceptive, these characteristics are far more prominent in their own criticisms of all things TM. Why can't they make their case honestly? What is it that drives them to distort and fudge and twist and say things they know aren't true? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
My response was that, yes, I would have known after some period of practice, based only on my experience of the sutra. At least in my case, Curtis's assumption about the role of the hype is in error. Does Curtis acknowledge this? Of course not. He even claims my experience has nothing to do with it--despite the fact that this is what he was asking about in the first place. He also says he would describe his experience the same way. If so, even his *own* experience shows that the assumption in his rhetorical question is in error. None of us has experienced flying without the hype so your point is meaningless. You are making a claim without any basis in fact. You don't know what you would experience without the hype. I acknowledged that there are moments in flying that feel like you might stay up. But it NEVER happens does it? It is just a feeling. It was a rhetorical question. So why did you try to answer it? (Definition: A question to which no answer is expected, often used for rhetorical effect.) Judy I will never understand you personally. My post was very carefully written not to be rude to you personally. You seem like you enjoy discussing things with people who see the world completely differently, and then you get all pissed off. If you are right about flying it will be my loss. So give me a break with the personal attacks. I don't think anyone will fly. So what? Your attack on my personal integrity is just proof that you cannot tolerate people with other points of view. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just want to point out one more instance of Curtis's sleazy avoidance tactics: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip The authority based belief systems all have this flaw. If you had been given the flying sutra blind, without all the hype, would you conclude that you were about to stay in the air? I didn't conclude that even *with* the hype, Curtis. However, if I'd had no idea what was supposed to happen, but had the same subjective experiences, there would have come a point when I suddenly recognized what was supposed to happen, because at times, at the apex of a hop, I have the sense for a split-second that I'm not going to come down again. This is a *visceral* sense, not any kind of intellectual notion. It's something my body knows. snip I would never challenge your right to practice something that gives you pleasure or benefit. I'm glad you have found something that you value. My comments are directed to MMY's organization that promotes the idea that people can fly but have shown no proof that even remotely suggests that someday people will fly. Hopping is not the first stage of flying, it is the last stage of hopping around. It also hurts your back so I hope you are careful. What you may feel during the experience has nothing to do with the reality of it. When I practiced flying I would have described it the way you have. I think you have a pretty grounded view of its place in your life and a healthy let's see attitude about the more extravagant claims. I would love to be proved wrong about people flying but there are more obvious things to test right now, especially in medical areas. Curtis asked, rhetorically, whether without the hype about flying, I would have known what was supposed to happen as a result of practicing the flying sutra. The implied answer to his question, of course, was No, and this was supposed to demonstrate that the idea that people could fly was solely a function of the hype, not of any experience of the sutra itself. My response was that, yes, I would have known after some period of practice, based only on my experience of the sutra. At least in my case, Curtis's assumption about the role of the hype is in error. Does Curtis acknowledge this? Of course not. He even claims my experience has nothing to do with it--despite the fact that this is what he was asking about in the first place. He also says he would describe his experience the same way. If so, even his *own* experience shows that the assumption in his rhetorical question is in error. If this isn't an example of irrationality and serious deficiency in critical thinking, I don't know what is. More likely, it's an example of Curtis's lack of integrity when debating TM issues, something I had occasion to draw attention to many times in my previous discussions with him on alt.m.t years ago. It is also, in my observation, typical of those I label anti-TMers and is one of the main aspects of how I define them. While they routinely claim it's TMers who are irrational, illogical,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My response was that, yes, I would have known after some period of practice, based only on my experience of the sutra. At least in my case, Curtis's assumption about the role of the hype is in error. Does Curtis acknowledge this? Of course not. He even claims my experience has nothing to do with it--despite the fact that this is what he was asking about in the first place. He also says he would describe his experience the same way. If so, even his *own* experience shows that the assumption in his rhetorical question is in error. None of us has experienced flying without the hype so your point is meaningless. If that's the case, your question was meaningless as well. You are making a claim without any basis in fact. You were asking a question that could not be answered on the basis of fact (scare quotes because you don't accept that subjective experiences are facts). You don't know what you would experience without the hype. So why did you ask what I would have experienced without the hype?? I acknowledged that there are moments in flying that feel like you might stay up. But it NEVER happens does it? I don't know, and neither do you. It hasn't happened *so far*, to me, as I said. Whether it NEVER happens is something neither of us cay say. It is just a feeling. It was a rhetorical question. So why did you try to answer it? Why did you ask it in the first place? (Definition: A question to which no answer is expected, often used for rhetorical effect.) I don't think you can possibly be suggesting that one therefore must refrain from pointing out that the assumption on which the rhetorical question is based is flawed--can you? Judy I will never understand you personally. My post was very carefully written not to be rude to you personally. Note that I did not complain about rudeness. I complained about your lack of integrity in debating TM issues, which is exhibited in what you just said, as well as the rest of your response to my post. Or perhaps you're chiding me for being so rude as to call your integrity into question. So sorry you're offended. Get over it. Or try to observe higher standards of integrity. You seem like you enjoy discussing things with people who see the world completely differently, and then you get all pissed off. I get pissed off when people don't engage in honest discussion. If you are right about flying it will be my loss. If I'm right about *what* about flying? All I've said, all along, is that I don't rule it out. So give me a break with the personal attacks. Give *me* a break with your dishonest debating tactics. I don't think anyone will fly. So what? So what indeed? It *could* be interesting to discuss the pros and cons of what degree of disbelief is appropriate for a scientifically minded person. But you can't engage in that kind of discussion *honestly*. Your attack on my personal integrity is just proof that you cannot tolerate people with other points of view. ROTFL!! Speaking of illogic and dishonest debating tactics... And this is from a guy who claims to employ the scientific approach. What my attack on your personal integrity proves is that I perceive you to have very low standards of integrity when you're discussing TM issues. It has *nothing* to do with my ability to tolerate people with other points of view (unless the difference in points of view has to do with whether it's OK to use sleazy debating tactics, a perspective I most certainly do not tolerate). I have NO PROBLEM with somebody having a different point of view as long as they present and argue it HONESTLY. I didn't have any problem with your having a different point of view in our earlier discussion of the Schroedinger quote; I didn't perceive you to use dishonest tactics there. Why is there such a change for the worse with you whenever TM is the topic of discussion? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Or perhaps you're chiding me for being so rude as to call your integrity into question. Yes that is it. You have made this move once too often with too many people Judy. It is so unnecessary. I have done the best I can answering your points. I have said my piece. I remember when you were so offended that numerous posters called you out on this very tactic. You went completely ballistic and didn't take any of the good advise offered to you about how to conduct a civil discussion. You fought off everyone trying to help you. Some posts, like Rick's were so eloquent and kind to you trying to get you to see this point. You are painting yourself into a corner Judy. Rather than treat me unkindly you should appreciate that I take the time to answer your detailed points and not turn it into a personal bashing session. We are discussing these points on your home team Judy. More people on this group probably agree with your optimism concerning flying and some say they have had experiences of it. This is your most sympathetic forum to discuss this topic. Of the people who disagree with me, most ignore me and some find areas where we do agree or can hold a simple exchange of ideas without getting all bent out of shape. How many times does a poster have to remind you that personal attacks are not necessary to make your point? You should have learned not to throw sand while playing in the sandbox in kindergarten Judy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or perhaps you're chiding me for being so rude as to call your integrity into question. Yes that is it. You have made this move once too often with too many people Judy. It is so unnecessary. I have done the best I can answering your points. I have said my piece. I remember when you were so offended that numerous posters called you out on this very tactic. You went completely ballistic and didn't take any of the good advise offered to you about how to conduct a civil discussion. You're damn right I did, if the good advise was to keep quiet about the dishonesty of certain people on this forum. I sincerely hope I'll continue to resist good advise to that effect to my dying breath. You fought off everyone trying to help you. Trying to help me tolerate dishonesty?? You have it exactly backward. I'm trying to help others see that dishonesty is intolerable, ESPECIALLY on a so-called spiritual forum. I can understand why people who are dishonest would want me to tolerate it; it's no surprise you're touting that advise as helpful. I DO not understand why honest people--which is most of the people on this forum, thankfully--tolerate it in a few bad apples. Some posts, like Rick's were so eloquent and kind to you trying to get you to see this point. Don't get me started on Rick's disgusting moral cowardice in that discussion. Or your silence, for that matter, when you were well aware of the lies being told on your behalf and did nothing to correct them. You are painting yourself into a corner Judy. Rather than treat me unkindly you should appreciate that I take the time to answer your detailed points and not turn it into a personal bashing session. I should be grateful that you remain *polite* when you're being dishonest? We are discussing these points on your home team Judy. More people on this group probably agree with your optimism concerning flying and some say they have had experiences of it. What does that have to do with your dishonesty in discussing what point of view one should hold on it? This is your most sympathetic forum to discuss this topic. Of the people who disagree with me, most ignore me and some find areas where we do agree or can hold a simple exchange of ideas without getting all bent out of shape. If one party is consistently dishonest, it isn't a simple exchange of ideas. This exchange started when you asked, How could otherwise bright people believe something so patently absurd? You went on to refer to crazy and irrational beliefs and compared those who believe flying is possible to those who believe they're entitled to murder others who encroach on what they think is their God-given land. Do you really think all that was *polite*, Curtis? Was that the basis for a simple exchange of ideas? You should have been grateful to me for not taking your head off right at the start. The liberal blogs have an acronym, IOKIYAR. It stands for It's OK if you're a Republican, referring to the hypocrisy of criticizing Democrats for doing something Republicans do all the time without a second thought. Apparently we need one here, IOKIYAAT, It's OK if you're an anti-TMer. Anti-TMers get to be dishonest and use the nastiest sort of ad hominem against TMers, but God forbid a TMer should be so impolite as to call an anti-TMer on his tactics; the anti-TMers rise up in the most blatantly hypocritical wrath. How many times does a poster have to remind you that personal attacks are not necessary to make your point? How many times do I have to point out that if you *have* a point, you shouldn't need to use dishonesty to make it? And if you do use dishonesty, you should expect to be called on it. You should have learned not to throw sand while playing in the sandbox in kindergarten Judy. I never did that. My mother had to teach me to stand up for myself when some other kid did it to me-- not by throwing sand back but by telling them it was unacceptable. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
On Jul 18, 2006, at 1:25 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:"Or perhaps you're chiding me for being so rude as to call your integrity into question." Yes that is it. You have made this move once too often with too many people Judy. It is so unnecessary. I have done the best I can answering your points. I have said my piece. I remember when you were so offended that numerous posters called you out on this very tactic. You went completely ballistic and didn't take any of the good advise offered to you about how to conduct a civil discussion. You fought off everyone trying to help you. Some posts, like Rick's were so eloquent and kind to you trying to get you to see this point. So why do you keep falling for it? Lucy will still pull out the football at the last moment Charlie Brown :-) __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Here's the point: Photographs aside, a critical thinker will ask if there is any evidence that anyone has ever levitated. There is not. No one is going to levitate either, I'm asserting. It's all more BS from the TMO. Those who believe that levitation is happening or will happen are probably those who accept everything that MMY says, without any critical examination. I, for one, think it's all crap ... VooDoo TM, was was referenced earlier. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild- ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest publicizing photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping parabola... Think it through, Shemp. Start by explaining the deception involved: 1. What would someone assume *incorrectly* if they saw a photo taken at the apex of the parabola rather than at a lower point? Gee, I dunno, Judy, that the person was LEVITATING and FLOATING in the air maybe? BT. Why would they NOT think that if the photo were taken at a lower point of the parabola? Try again, please. 2. What would their *correct* assumption be if the hop were shown at a lower point? Think it through, Judy, and ask yourself who should be doing the assuming: Non sequitur. those promoting and distributing photos of alleged levitationor...those reading their papers over their morning coffee. Do you think that the TMO acted morally and honestly back in the '70s when they released those photos? I'll address that once you've addressed the point on the parabola issue. Every time you can't answer a question or you are befuddled, you always do the same thing: you say I'll answer that once you've addressed my question. Translation: Shemp realizes his bit about the point on the parabola was REELY dumb. He can't admit that, of course, so he tries to change the subject. That doesn't work, so now he thinks he'll try projecting *his* befuddlement and inability to answer *my* questions onto *me*. I guess he thinks at least some folks here are dumb enough to fall for it. do me a favor: ignore my posts and don't comment on them anymore, please. Sorry, but I'll continue to comment exactly as I see fit. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
The fact that you are even discussing the impossibility of flying is the result of a very successful marketing campaign isn't it? Based on people hopping around, MMY asserted that people would soon fly. Now, so many years later, for a dwindling group, the hope remains. This is one of the most fascinating lenses to view people's beliefs. The question for me is how could otherwise bright people believe something so patently absurd? The answer to that question goes right to the heart of how humans develop beliefs. It goes to the heart of what makes us human, and may be the thing that ends up destroying us. Right now different groups in the Middle East believe that God gave them a piece of land. Based on that belief they are killing each other. How can people believe that hopping is the first stage of flying, or that God gave their group a piece of land? We all have to find our own answers don't we? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's the point: Photographs aside, a critical thinker will ask if there is any evidence that anyone has ever levitated. There is not. No one is going to levitate either, I'm asserting. It's all more BS from the TMO. Those who believe that levitation is happening or will happen are probably those who accept everything that MMY says, without any critical examination. I, for one, think it's all crap ... VooDoo TM, was was referenced earlier. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild- ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest publicizing photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping parabola... Think it through, Shemp. Start by explaining the deception involved: 1. What would someone assume *incorrectly* if they saw a photo taken at the apex of the parabola rather than at a lower point? Gee, I dunno, Judy, that the person was LEVITATING and FLOATING in the air maybe? BT. Why would they NOT think that if the photo were taken at a lower point of the parabola? Try again, please. 2. What would their *correct* assumption be if the hop were shown at a lower point? Think it through, Judy, and ask yourself who should be doing the assuming: Non sequitur. those promoting and distributing photos of alleged levitationor...those reading their papers over their morning coffee. Do you think that the TMO acted morally and honestly back in the '70s when they released those photos? I'll address that once you've addressed the point on the parabola issue. Every time you can't answer a question or you are befuddled, you always do the same thing: you say I'll answer that once you've addressed my question. Translation: Shemp realizes his bit about the point on the parabola was REELY dumb. He can't admit that, of course, so he tries to change the subject. That doesn't work, so now he thinks he'll try projecting *his* befuddlement and inability to answer *my* questions onto *me*. I guess he thinks at least some folks here are dumb enough to fall for it. do me a favor: ignore my posts and don't comment on them anymore, please. Sorry, but I'll continue to comment exactly as I see
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Very well said. Have you read Sam Harris' book, End of Faith, or something like that? He says pretty much the same thing. And, normally, I don't care if people want to belief preposterous stuff, but lately with people strapping on bombs and blowing themselves up in coffee houses because they believe that 70 virgins will greet them in paradise, it hits a lot closer to home. And that's much worse than a bunch of lemmings who have the delusion that people can fly, but certainly cut from the same non-critical thinking cloth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fact that you are even discussing the impossibility of flying is the result of a very successful marketing campaign isn't it? Based on people hopping around, MMY asserted that people would soon fly. Now, so many years later, for a dwindling group, the hope remains. This is one of the most fascinating lenses to view people's beliefs. The question for me is how could otherwise bright people believe something so patently absurd? The answer to that question goes right to the heart of how humans develop beliefs. It goes to the heart of what makes us human, and may be the thing that ends up destroying us. Right now different groups in the Middle East believe that God gave them a piece of land. Based on that belief they are killing each other. How can people believe that hopping is the first stage of flying, or that God gave their group a piece of land? We all have to find our own answers don't we? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave bikemaster@ wrote: Here's the point: Photographs aside, a critical thinker will ask if there is any evidence that anyone has ever levitated. There is not. No one is going to levitate either, I'm asserting. It's all more BS from the TMO. Those who believe that levitation is happening or will happen are probably those who accept everything that MMY says, without any critical examination. I, for one, think it's all crap ... VooDoo TM, was was referenced earlier. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild- ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest publicizing photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping parabola... Think it through, Shemp. Start by explaining the deception involved: 1. What would someone assume *incorrectly* if they saw a photo taken at the apex of the parabola rather than at a lower point? Gee, I dunno, Judy, that the person was LEVITATING and FLOATING in the air maybe? BT. Why would they NOT think that if the photo were taken at a lower point of the parabola? Try again, please. 2. What would their *correct* assumption be if the hop were shown at a lower point? Think it through, Judy, and ask yourself who should be doing the assuming: Non sequitur. those promoting and distributing photos of alleged levitationor...those reading their papers over their morning coffee. Do you think that the TMO acted morally and honestly back in the '70s when they released those photos?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Yes that was right out of Sam Harris' perspective! He is one of my favorite thinkers. I must add that I was a full believer in all things TM at one time so my critique of this kind of belief is also a critique of my own former beliefs. Taking on and then shedding the beliefs of TM was an important experience for me. I am fascinated by people with more spiritual beliefs than I myself hold. This Yahoo group seems especially tolerant of different views and the rights of people expressing them. I agree with your point that blending crazy beliefs and explosives takes the whole discussion out of the theoretical and into the world of holy shit! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very well said. Have you read Sam Harris' book, End of Faith, or something like that? He says pretty much the same thing. And, normally, I don't care if people want to belief preposterous stuff, but lately with people strapping on bombs and blowing themselves up in coffee houses because they believe that 70 virgins will greet them in paradise, it hits a lot closer to home. And that's much worse than a bunch of lemmings who have the delusion that people can fly, but certainly cut from the same non-critical thinking cloth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: The fact that you are even discussing the impossibility of flying is the result of a very successful marketing campaign isn't it? Based on people hopping around, MMY asserted that people would soon fly. Now, so many years later, for a dwindling group, the hope remains. This is one of the most fascinating lenses to view people's beliefs. The question for me is how could otherwise bright people believe something so patently absurd? The answer to that question goes right to the heart of how humans develop beliefs. It goes to the heart of what makes us human, and may be the thing that ends up destroying us. Right now different groups in the Middle East believe that God gave them a piece of land. Based on that belief they are killing each other. How can people believe that hopping is the first stage of flying, or that God gave their group a piece of land? We all have to find our own answers don't we? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave bikemaster@ wrote: Here's the point: Photographs aside, a critical thinker will ask if there is any evidence that anyone has ever levitated. There is not. No one is going to levitate either, I'm asserting. It's all more BS from the TMO. Those who believe that levitation is happening or will happen are probably those who accept everything that MMY says, without any critical examination. I, for one, think it's all crap ... VooDoo TM, was was referenced earlier. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild- ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest publicizing photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping parabola... Think it through, Shemp. Start by explaining the deception involved: 1. What would someone assume
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fact that you are even discussing the impossibility of flying is the result of a very successful marketing campaign isn't it? Based on people hopping around, MMY asserted that people would soon fly. It was based on more than that, from what I understand. Remember that the flying sutra was not the only one being practiced. Now, so many years later, for a dwindling group, the hope remains. This is one of the most fascinating lenses to view people's beliefs. The question for me is how could otherwise bright people believe something so patently absurd? And the question for me is, How could otherwise bright people believe such a belief is patently absurd? Vanishingly unlikely, I could understand. But to be utterly, unequivocally convinced that it's absurd seems to me, well, absurd. The answer to that question goes right to the heart of how humans develop beliefs. It goes to the heart of what makes us human, and may be the thing that ends up destroying us. Right now different groups in the Middle East believe that God gave them a piece of land. Based on that belief they are killing each other. How can people believe that hopping is the first stage of flying, or that God gave their group a piece of land? Those are sorta kinda very different types of beliefs, Curtis. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very well said. Have you read Sam Harris' book, End of Faith, or something like that? He says pretty much the same thing. Not quite. From the recent interview with Harris in Salon.com: S: One thing I find so fascinating about your book is that you're out there as an atheist. And yet you also say life has a sacred dimension. You talk about the value of spirituality and mystical experiences. It's interesting that you put all that in the same pot. H: Yeah, many atheists felt it should not have been in the same pot. But I think it's necessary to just be honest. These are some of the most beautiful and most profound experiences that human beings can have. And therefore we're right to want to understand them and to explore that landscape. S: But it does raise the question, what do you mean by spiritual? And what do you mean by mystical? H: By spiritual and mystical -- I use them interchangeably -- I mean any effort to understand and explore happiness and well-being itself through deliberate uses of attention. Specifically, to break the spell of discursive thought. We wake up each morning, and we're chased out of bed by our thoughts, and then we think, think, think, think all day long. And very few of us spend any significant amount of time breaking that train of thought. Meditation is one technique by which to do that. The sense that you are an ego, busy thinking, disappears. And its disappearance is quite a relief. S: Well, it's interesting to hear this description of mysticism because I don't think that's how most people would see it. I mean, most people would play up the more irrational side. Yes, you're losing yourself, but you're plunged into some larger sea of oneness, of perhaps transcendent presence. Obviously, you're staying away from that whole supernatural way of thinking. H: Well, it's very Buddhist of me to do that. The Buddhists tend to talk in terms of what it's not. They talk about it being no self, they talk in terms of emptiness. But the theistic traditions talk in terms of what the experience is like. There, you get descriptions of fullness and rapture and love and oneness. And to some degree, I've had experiences that can be characterized that way. But there are pitfalls in using that language. People tend to reify these states and make metaphysics out of it. It's not like you learn about physics by being a mystic. S: I want to ask you about one sentence from your book The End of Faith. You say, Whatever is true now should be discoverable now. It sounds like you're putting inordinate faith in science. Are you willing to acknowledge that there might be plenty of things we still don't understand scientifically that could very well be true? H: There's no scientist who would hesitate to acknowledge that. This is one of the ironies of religious discourse. Religious people talk in terms of their own humility and talk of the intellectual arrogance of science, whereas the situation is totally reversed. Every scientist worth his Ph.D. will admit that we have no idea how the universe, or why the universe, came into existence. We have no idea why there is everything rather than nothing. And most of what is there to be discovered has not been discovered. S: Let me mention one case in point. There is a wealth of anthropological literature about sorcery in Africa and Latin America, and there are plenty of personal testimonies about the power of witchcraft. From the scientific world view, this looks like sheer nonsense. Yet I'm wondering if it might be possible that science some day will be able to explain what now seems supernatural. H: Oh yeah, I think the only way to explain it is with a scientific frame of mind. Now, scientists tend to be dogmatically opposed to looking at this kind of phenomenon -- at telepathy, for instance, because there's been so much fraud and wishful thinking. Science generally has been eager to divest itself of the spookiness of this area. But I think that kind of phenomenon is fascinating and worth looking into. And it may be that minds have some effect upon the physical world that we currently can't explain. But the way we will explain it is scientifically. http://www.salon.com/books/int/2006/07/07/harris/index.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Since you turned me on to this article I know you understand his point which is made in the rest of the article. In his book Sam Harris points out that irrational beliefs are different only in content. They are based on ancient scriptures dictating to modern people things that cannot or have not been proved. The authority based belief systems all have this flaw. If you had been given the flying sutra blind, without all the hype, would you conclude that you were about to stay in the air? But Nature Speaking English (Domash's term for MMY) proclaimed that is shall be so, despite such a dismal track record of anyone actually doing it. He even uses yogic scriptures to back up his claim. So there is no reason to believe, other than his word that it is so, that you will someday float in the air. As far as Sam's other point that amazing claims can and should be tested...MMY has had how many years to put up or shut up with flying? When do we celebrate the 30th year of no one flying? Now, scientists tend to be dogmatically opposed to looking at this kind of phenomenon -- at telepathy, for instance, because there's been so much fraud and wishful thinking. Take your pick. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave bikemaster@ wrote: Very well said. Have you read Sam Harris' book, End of Faith, or something like that? He says pretty much the same thing. Not quite. From the recent interview with Harris in Salon.com: S: One thing I find so fascinating about your book is that you're out there as an atheist. And yet you also say life has a sacred dimension. You talk about the value of spirituality and mystical experiences. It's interesting that you put all that in the same pot. H: Yeah, many atheists felt it should not have been in the same pot. But I think it's necessary to just be honest. These are some of the most beautiful and most profound experiences that human beings can have. And therefore we're right to want to understand them and to explore that landscape. S: But it does raise the question, what do you mean by spiritual? And what do you mean by mystical? H: By spiritual and mystical -- I use them interchangeably -- I mean any effort to understand and explore happiness and well-being itself through deliberate uses of attention. Specifically, to break the spell of discursive thought. We wake up each morning, and we're chased out of bed by our thoughts, and then we think, think, think, think all day long. And very few of us spend any significant amount of time breaking that train of thought. Meditation is one technique by which to do that. The sense that you are an ego, busy thinking, disappears. And its disappearance is quite a relief. S: Well, it's interesting to hear this description of mysticism because I don't think that's how most people would see it. I mean, most people would play up the more irrational side. Yes, you're losing yourself, but you're plunged into some larger sea of oneness, of perhaps transcendent presence. Obviously, you're staying away from that whole supernatural way of thinking. H: Well, it's very Buddhist of me to do that. The Buddhists tend to talk in terms of what it's not. They talk about it being no self, they talk in terms of emptiness. But the theistic traditions talk in terms of what the experience is like. There, you get descriptions of fullness and rapture and love and oneness. And to some degree, I've had experiences that can be characterized that way. But there are pitfalls in using that language. People tend to reify these states and make metaphysics out of it. It's not like you learn about physics by being a mystic. S: I want to ask you about one sentence from your book The End of Faith. You say, Whatever is true now should be discoverable now. It sounds like you're putting inordinate faith in science. Are you willing to acknowledge that there might be plenty of things we still don't understand scientifically that could very well be true? H: There's no scientist who would hesitate to acknowledge that. This is one of the ironies of religious discourse. Religious people talk in terms of their own humility and talk of the intellectual arrogance of science, whereas the situation is totally reversed. Every scientist worth his Ph.D. will admit that we have no idea how the universe, or why the universe, came into existence. We have no idea why there is everything rather than nothing. And most of what is there to be discovered has not been discovered. S: Let me mention one case in point. There is a wealth of anthropological literature about sorcery in Africa and Latin America, and there are plenty of personal testimonies about the power of witchcraft. From the scientific world view, this looks like sheer nonsense. Yet I'm wondering if it might be
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since you turned me on to this article I know you understand his point which is made in the rest of the article. In his book Sam Harris points out that irrational beliefs are different only in content. They are based on ancient scriptures dictating to modern people things that cannot or have not been proved. Define irrational. Note that Harris very explicitly does *not* rule out the idea that the mind can have an effect on the physical world. Is it irrational for him not to rule it out, given that it hasn't been proved? He doesn't seem at all inclined to assert that it's patently absurd. The authority based belief systems all have this flaw. If you had been given the flying sutra blind, without all the hype, would you conclude that you were about to stay in the air? I didn't conclude that even *with* the hype, Curtis. However, if I'd had no idea what was supposed to happen, but had the same subjective experiences, there would have come a point when I suddenly recognized what was supposed to happen, because at times, at the apex of a hop, I have the sense for a split-second that I'm not going to come down again. This is a *visceral* sense, not any kind of intellectual notion. It's something my body knows. That split-second is only a split-second; it doesn't last. But it's an instant in which the potential becomes not just crystal clear but self-evident: If I were able to maintain the exact state I'm in at that moment, I'd stay in the air. (Note that even *with* this experience, hoping to fly is not why I practice the levitation sutra and the rest of the TM-Sidhis techniques. I practice them because they're enjoyable and have beneficial effects in activity that are well worth the time spent.) But Nature Speaking English (Domash's term for MMY) proclaimed that is shall be so, despite such a dismal track record of anyone actually doing it. He even uses yogic scriptures to back up his claim. So there is no reason to believe, other than his word that it is so, that you will someday float in the air. Plus all the (admittedly anecdotal) accounts of people levitating, throughout history and across cultures. Just for the record, Patanjali's Yoga Sutras are scriptures only in a generic sense. They're actually a practical instruction manual for development of consciousness. As far as Sam's other point that amazing claims can and should be tested...MMY has had how many years to put up or shut up with flying? Harris is talking about testing claims that something *has* occurred, not that it *will* occur at some point. Obviously, you can't test a claim with an open-ended time frame. You know better than that, Curtis. When do we celebrate the 30th year of no one flying? Now, scientists tend to be dogmatically opposed to looking at this kind of phenomenon -- at telepathy, for instance, because there's been so much fraud and wishful thinking. Take your pick. How, um, clever of you to leave out the rest of the paragraph, not to mention the following question and answer: H: Science generally has been eager to divest itself of the spookiness of this area. But I think that kind of phenomenon is fascinating and worth looking into. And it may be that minds have some effect upon the physical world that we currently can't explain. But the way we will explain it is scientifically. S: It sounds like you're open-minded to the possibility of telepathy - - things that we might classify as psychic. You're saying it's entirely possible that they might be true and science at some point will be able to prove them. H: Yeah, and there's a lot of data out there that's treated in most circles like intellectual pornography that attests to there being a real phenomenon here. I just don't know. But I've had the kinds of experiences that everyone has had that seem to confirm telepathy or the fact that minds can influence other minds. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Since you turned me on to this article I know you understand his point which is made in the rest of the article. In his book Sam Harris points out that irrational beliefs are different only in content. They are based on ancient scriptures dictating to modern people things that cannot or have not been proved. Define irrational. 1. 1. Not endowed with reason. 2. Affected by loss of usual or normal mental clarity; incoherent, as from shock. 3. Marked by a lack of accord with reason or sound judgment: an irrational dislike. 2. 1. Being a syllable in Greek and Latin prosody whose length does not fit the metric pattern. 2. Being a metric foot containing such a syllable. 3. Mathematics. Of or relating to an irrational number. So it is not rational to believe things for which there is no proof. You may think something is worth testing, but if there is no proof, reasonable people don't assert its truth. People who believe things that have already been proved false are afflicted with a loss of usual or normal mental clarity. Note that Harris very explicitly does *not* rule out the idea that the mind can have an effect on the physical world. Is it irrational for him not to rule it out, given that it hasn't been proved? He doesn't seem at all inclined to assert that it's patently absurd. He may or may not assert that hovering in the air is patently absurd. He does not address this phenomenon. But he would see that there is no evidence of it happening yet. So the belief in flying is not based on anyone's experience, so it is not rational. He is referring to things that people experience, not things they hope to experience. He is talking about things that can be tested, not things that cannot be tested because they have not happened yet. His open mindedness is a nice reminder to skeptics that we need to keep pushing the limits of testing claims. MMY's claims have been tested and he has failed. Now all that is left is a belief with no evidence. I agree with Sam that we don't know if the mind can effect the physical world yet. But Uri Geller and MMY have not advanced our understanding with their claims of miracles. The authority based belief systems all have this flaw. If you had been given the flying sutra blind, without all the hype, would you conclude that you were about to stay in the air? I didn't conclude that even *with* the hype, Curtis. However, if I'd had no idea what was supposed to happen, but had the same subjective experiences, there would have come a point when I suddenly recognized what was supposed to happen, because at times, at the apex of a hop, I have the sense for a split-second that I'm not going to come down again. This is a *visceral* sense, not any kind of intellectual notion. It's something my body knows. That split-second is only a split-second; it doesn't last. But it's an instant in which the potential becomes not just crystal clear but self-evident: If I were able to maintain the exact state I'm in at that moment, I'd stay in the air. (Note that even *with* this experience, hoping to fly is not why I practice the levitation sutra and the rest of the TM-Sidhis techniques. I practice them because they're enjoyable and have beneficial effects in activity that are well worth the time spent.) I would never challenge your right to practice something that gives you pleasure or benefit. I'm glad you have found something that you value. My comments are directed to MMY's organization that promotes the idea that people can fly but have shown no proof that even remotely suggests that someday people will fly. Hopping is not the first stage of flying, it is the last stage of hopping around. It also hurts your back so I hope you are careful. What you may feel during the experience has nothing to do with the reality of it. When I practiced flying I would have described it the way you have. I think you have a pretty grounded view of its place in your life and a healthy let's see attitude about the more extravagant claims. I would love to be proved wrong about people flying but there are more obvious things to test right now, especially in medical areas. But Nature Speaking English (Domash's term for MMY) proclaimed that is shall be so, despite such a dismal track record of anyone actually doing it. He even uses yogic scriptures to back up his claim. So there is no reason to believe, other than his word that it is so, that you will someday float in the air. Plus all the (admittedly anecdotal) accounts of people levitating, throughout history and across cultures. Most of them are in advocacy pieces whose purpose is to make a person seem more special. The Christian tradition has a few of them. When you read
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
I apologize for not reading the earlier posts where you quoted extensively from Harris. You're right about him. He reflects my thinking as well. Esentially, it comes down to this. Claims made require testing. MMY's claims with regard to yogic flying have been found seriously wanting and those desiring to believe those claims in the face of no supporting evidence are deluding themselves. The TMO is real good about advancing delusion. Jyotish falls into that area as well. And while we're at it, let's test yagyas too! I think I know what the results will show. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes that was right out of Sam Harris' perspective! He is one of my favorite thinkers. I must add that I was a full believer in all things TM at one time so my critique of this kind of belief is also a critique of my own former beliefs. Taking on and then shedding the beliefs of TM was an important experience for me. I am fascinated by people with more spiritual beliefs than I myself hold. This Yahoo group seems especially tolerant of different views and the rights of people expressing them. I agree with your point that blending crazy beliefs and explosives takes the whole discussion out of the theoretical and into the world of holy shit! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave bikemaster@ wrote: Very well said. Have you read Sam Harris' book, End of Faith, or something like that? He says pretty much the same thing. And, normally, I don't care if people want to belief preposterous stuff, but lately with people strapping on bombs and blowing themselves up in coffee houses because they believe that 70 virgins will greet them in paradise, it hits a lot closer to home. And that's much worse than a bunch of lemmings who have the delusion that people can fly, but certainly cut from the same non- critical thinking cloth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: The fact that you are even discussing the impossibility of flying is the result of a very successful marketing campaign isn't it? Based on people hopping around, MMY asserted that people would soon fly. Now, so many years later, for a dwindling group, the hope remains. This is one of the most fascinating lenses to view people's beliefs. The question for me is how could otherwise bright people believe something so patently absurd? The answer to that question goes right to the heart of how humans develop beliefs. It goes to the heart of what makes us human, and may be the thing that ends up destroying us. Right now different groups in the Middle East believe that God gave them a piece of land. Based on that belief they are killing each other. How can people believe that hopping is the first stage of flying, or that God gave their group a piece of land? We all have to find our own answers don't we? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave bikemaster@ wrote: Here's the point: Photographs aside, a critical thinker will ask if there is any evidence that anyone has ever levitated. There is not. No one is going to levitate either, I'm asserting. It's all more BS from the TMO. Those who believe that levitation is happening or will happen are probably those who accept everything that MMY says, without any critical examination. I, for one, think it's all crap ... VooDoo TM, was was referenced earlier. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed- up, wild- ass
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
Esentially, it comes down to this. Claims made require testing. MMY's claims with regard to yogic flying have been found seriously wanting and those desiring to believe those claims in the face of no supporting evidence are deluding themselves. The TMO is real good about advancing delusion. Jyotish falls into that area as well. And while we're at it, let's test yagyas too! I think I know what the results will show. Good points. I think MMY has had his day. The early tests on meditation were really interesting and probably encouraged a lot of interest in mind-body studies outside the movement. But all the silly stuff that came later has had plenty of time to pass muster and it has not. The Yagya and Joitish stuff are usually put in a non-falsifiable form. I know some people who have spent thousands on Yagyas. Guess who they blame when they don't work? Themselves! This stuff has torn the movement apart as people grow older and get sick of the wild claims and never-ending money schemes. It still is facinating isn't it? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I apologize for not reading the earlier posts where you quoted extensively from Harris. You're right about him. He reflects my thinking as well. Esentially, it comes down to this. Claims made require testing. MMY's claims with regard to yogic flying have been found seriously wanting and those desiring to believe those claims in the face of no supporting evidence are deluding themselves. The TMO is real good about advancing delusion. Jyotish falls into that area as well. And while we're at it, let's test yagyas too! I think I know what the results will show. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Yes that was right out of Sam Harris' perspective! He is one of my favorite thinkers. I must add that I was a full believer in all things TM at one time so my critique of this kind of belief is also a critique of my own former beliefs. Taking on and then shedding the beliefs of TM was an important experience for me. I am fascinated by people with more spiritual beliefs than I myself hold. This Yahoo group seems especially tolerant of different views and the rights of people expressing them. I agree with your point that blending crazy beliefs and explosives takes the whole discussion out of the theoretical and into the world of holy shit! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave bikemaster@ wrote: Very well said. Have you read Sam Harris' book, End of Faith, or something like that? He says pretty much the same thing. And, normally, I don't care if people want to belief preposterous stuff, but lately with people strapping on bombs and blowing themselves up in coffee houses because they believe that 70 virgins will greet them in paradise, it hits a lot closer to home. And that's much worse than a bunch of lemmings who have the delusion that people can fly, but certainly cut from the same non- critical thinking cloth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: The fact that you are even discussing the impossibility of flying is the result of a very successful marketing campaign isn't it? Based on people hopping around, MMY asserted that people would soon fly. Now, so many years later, for a dwindling group, the hope remains. This is one of the most fascinating lenses to view people's beliefs. The question for me is how could otherwise bright people believe something so patently absurd? The answer to that question goes right to the heart of how humans develop beliefs. It goes to the heart of what makes us human, and may be the thing that ends up destroying us. Right now different groups in the Middle East believe that God gave them a piece of land. Based on that belief they are killing each other. How can people believe that hopping is the first stage of flying, or that God gave their group a piece of land? We all have to find our own answers don't we? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave bikemaster@ wrote: Here's the point: Photographs aside, a critical thinker will ask if there is any evidence that anyone has ever levitated. There is not. No one is going to levitate either, I'm asserting. It's all more BS from the TMO. Those who believe that levitation is happening or will happen are probably those who accept everything that MMY says, without any critical examination. I, for one, think it's all crap ... VooDoo TM, was was referenced earlier. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Since you turned me on to this article I know you understand his point which is made in the rest of the article. In his book Sam Harris points out that irrational beliefs are different only in content. They are based on ancient scriptures dictating to modern people things that cannot or have not been proved. Define irrational. 1. 1. Not endowed with reason. 2. Affected by loss of usual or normal mental clarity; incoherent, as from shock. 3. Marked by a lack of accord with reason or sound judgment: an irrational dislike. So it is not rational to believe things for which there is no proof. In the first place, these are all circular definitions. In the second place, your conclusion doesn't follow from the definitions. You may think something is worth testing, but if there is no proof, reasonable people don't assert its truth. duh People who believe things that have already been proved false are afflicted with a loss of usual or normal mental clarity. duh However, proof can be a slippery term. Note that Harris very explicitly does *not* rule out the idea that the mind can have an effect on the physical world. Is it irrational for him not to rule it out, given that it hasn't been proved? He doesn't seem at all inclined to assert that it's patently absurd. He may or may not assert that hovering in the air is patently absurd. He does not address this phenomenon. But he would see that there is no evidence of it happening yet. So the belief in flying is not based on anyone's experience, so it is not rational. It's not based on anyone's experience *that you know about*. You seem to believe, without a shred of proof, that nobody has ever hovered. By your own definition, that's irrational. As to evidence, in the first place, again, there's no evidence *that you know about*. And in the second place, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And you carefully avoided responding to my question. Finally, you seem able to cope with only two possibilities, believing in something and disbelieving in it. Throughout, I've been talking about a third possibility, not ruling something out. He is referring to things that people experience, not things they hope to experience. He is talking about things that can be tested, not things that cannot be tested because they have not happened yet. This makes no sense in the context of what I wrote above. His open mindedness is a nice reminder to skeptics that we need to keep pushing the limits of testing claims. MMY's claims have been tested and he has failed. No, they have *not* been tested. As I pointed out, you can't test a claim with an open-ended time frame. Now all that is left is a belief with no evidence. That you know of. I agree with Sam that we don't know if the mind can effect the physical world yet. But Uri Geller and MMY have not advanced our understanding with their claims of miracles. Don't know about Geller, but MMY doesn't think of what he claims as miracles. He thinks they're all perfectly natural. Miracles is a weasel word you're using to load your argument. The authority based belief systems all have this flaw. If you had been given the flying sutra blind, without all the hype, would you conclude that you were about to stay in the air? I didn't conclude that even *with* the hype, Curtis. However, if I'd had no idea what was supposed to happen, but had the same subjective experiences, there would have come a point when I suddenly recognized what was supposed to happen, because at times, at the apex of a hop, I have the sense for a split-second that I'm not going to come down again. This is a *visceral* sense, not any kind of intellectual notion. It's something my body knows. That split-second is only a split-second; it doesn't last. But it's an instant in which the potential becomes not just crystal clear but self-evident: If I were able to maintain the exact state I'm in at that moment, I'd stay in the air. (Note that even *with* this experience, hoping to fly is not why I practice the levitation sutra and the rest of the TM-Sidhis techniques. I practice them because they're enjoyable and have beneficial effects in activity that are well worth the time spent.) I would never challenge your right to practice something that gives you pleasure or benefit. Gosh, that's darned pink of you, Curtis. I'm glad you have found something that you value. My comments are directed to MMY's organization that promotes the idea that people can fly but have shown no proof that even remotely suggests that someday people will fly. The only kind of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I apologize for not reading the earlier posts where you quoted extensively from Harris. snicker That was me, not Curtis. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip And the daily activity of those who practise Voodoo TM is, specifically, a Guru-dictated, Bhakti-based blind belief system performed within the orbit of a cult. I agree except for the Bhakti-based observation. The TMO and its TB's are about as opposite from bhakti as one could get. Blind faith is not bhakti. Obedience to a mad guru is not bhakti, its fanaticism. Obidience to Satan is bhakti, so what's up with this anti-mad-guru shit? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild-ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. What, didn't you know that Movement photographers have mastered the sidhi of instantaneous photography? BTW, if its so deceptive to snap pictures of someone at the apex (assuming that were even possible), why did LIFE Magazine publish the most spectacular photo of Yogic Flying I've ever seen? I mean, they must have sorted through dozens of photos to find the one they used and LIFE wasn't trying to sell sutras, just magazines. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild-ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest publicizing photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping parabola... Think it through, Shemp. Start by explaining the deception involved: 1. What would someone assume *incorrectly* if they saw a photo taken at the apex of the parabola rather than at a lower point? 2. What would their *correct* assumption be if the hop were shown at a lower point? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip And the daily activity of those who practise Voodoo TM is, specifically, a Guru-dictated, Bhakti-based blind belief system performed within the orbit of a cult. I agree except for the Bhakti-based observation. The TMO and its TB's are about as opposite from bhakti as one could get. Blind faith is not bhakti. Obedience to a mad guru is not bhakti, its fanaticism. Obidience to Satan is bhakti, so what's up with this anti-mad-guru shit? Mad-student shit? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild-ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest publicizing photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping parabola... Think it through, Shemp. Start by explaining the deception involved: 1. What would someone assume *incorrectly* if they saw a photo taken at the apex of the parabola rather than at a lower point? Gee, I dunno, Judy, that the person was LEVITATING and FLOATING in the air maybe? 2. What would their *correct* assumption be if the hop were shown at a lower point? Think it through, Judy, and ask yourself who should be doing the assuming: those promoting and distributing photos of alleged levitationor...those reading their papers over their morning coffee. Do you think that the TMO acted morally and honestly back in the '70s when they released those photos? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild-ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest publicizing photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping parabola... Think it through, Shemp. Start by explaining the deception involved: 1. What would someone assume *incorrectly* if they saw a photo taken at the apex of the parabola rather than at a lower point? Gee, I dunno, Judy, that the person was LEVITATING and FLOATING in the air maybe? BT. Why would they NOT think that if the photo were taken at a lower point of the parabola? Try again, please. 2. What would their *correct* assumption be if the hop were shown at a lower point? Think it through, Judy, and ask yourself who should be doing the assuming: Non sequitur. those promoting and distributing photos of alleged levitationor...those reading their papers over their morning coffee. Do you think that the TMO acted morally and honestly back in the '70s when they released those photos? I'll address that once you've addressed the point on the parabola issue. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild-ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest publicizing photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping parabola... Think it through, Shemp. Start by explaining the deception involved: 1. What would someone assume *incorrectly* if they saw a photo taken at the apex of the parabola rather than at a lower point? Gee, I dunno, Judy, that the person was LEVITATING and FLOATING in the air maybe? BT. Why would they NOT think that if the photo were taken at a lower point of the parabola? Try again, please. 2. What would their *correct* assumption be if the hop were shown at a lower point? Think it through, Judy, and ask yourself who should be doing the assuming: Non sequitur. those promoting and distributing photos of alleged levitationor...those reading their papers over their morning coffee. Do you think that the TMO acted morally and honestly back in the '70s when they released those photos? I'll address that once you've addressed the point on the parabola issue. Every time you can't answer a question or you are befuddled, you always do the same thing: you say I'll answer that once you've addressed my question. do me a favor: ignore my posts and don't comment on them anymore, please. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild- ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest publicizing photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping parabola... Think it through, Shemp. Start by explaining the deception involved: 1. What would someone assume *incorrectly* if they saw a photo taken at the apex of the parabola rather than at a lower point? Gee, I dunno, Judy, that the person was LEVITATING and FLOATING in the air maybe? BT. Why would they NOT think that if the photo were taken at a lower point of the parabola? Try again, please. 2. What would their *correct* assumption be if the hop were shown at a lower point? Think it through, Judy, and ask yourself who should be doing the assuming: Non sequitur. those promoting and distributing photos of alleged levitationor...those reading their papers over their morning coffee. Do you think that the TMO acted morally and honestly back in the '70s when they released those photos? I'll address that once you've addressed the point on the parabola issue. Every time you can't answer a question or you are befuddled, you always do the same thing: you say I'll answer that once you've addressed my question. Translation: Shemp realizes his bit about the point on the parabola was REELY dumb. He can't admit that, of course, so he tries to change the subject. That doesn't work, so now he thinks he'll try projecting *his* befuddlement and inability to answer *my* questions onto *me*. I guess he thinks at least some folks here are dumb enough to fall for it. do me a favor: ignore my posts and don't comment on them anymore, please. Sorry, but I'll continue to comment exactly as I see fit. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
I once practiced the original, non-VooDoo TM, that is, until the movement started to make claims of levitation, invisibility, etc. At that moment, I began to question what I was involved with, and for the first time, think critically about it. I retreated as hastily as I could. In the decades since then, the TMO has paraded out wealthy rajas in gold crowns, advanced astrology as legitimate science, charged huge bucks for pandits to chant yagyas to avert the danger that has not come, dictated that home and office must have east or north entrances, claims of lowering crime rates,and much more hoo-hah, while all the time claiming that practioners are flying. Where are the critical thinkers? Certainly not in the TM movement. The meditation was nice, but we were sold a bill of goods, and I'm so glad that I did not buy into the program. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I practise the TM Program. That is the practise of the TM Technique as taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for 15-20 minutes twice a day balanced by activity during the rest of the waking state. And the instructions for this activity is very specific: action according to the TM Program is acting according to your own tradition, your own culture, your own way of life, with everything that you want to do, using your own common sense. Voodoo TM is something else entirely. It is what I suspect over 90% of those involved fulltime with the TMO practise. Voodoo TM is the practise of the TM Technique as taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for 15-20 minutes twice a day balanced by a very separate and distinctive activity during the rest of the waking state from the activity performed by those who practise the TM Program. And the daily activity of those who practise Voodoo TM is, specifically, a Guru-dictated, Bhakti-based blind belief system performed within the orbit of a cult. What to eat, how to dress, what kind of home to live in, what kind of candy bars and honey to eat, what political views to hold. This is a cult-based activity. It is in direct opposition to and completely different from the instructions for the TM Program. Which path are YOU on? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
I once practiced the original, non-VooDoo TM, that is, until the movement started to make claims of levitation, invisibility, etc. At that moment, I began to question what I was involved with, and for the first time, think critically about it. I retreated as hastily as I could. In the decades since then, the TMO has paraded out wealthy rajas in gold crowns, advanced astrology as legitimate science, charged huge bucks for pandits to chant yagyas to avert the danger that has not come, dictated that home and office must have east or north entrances, claims of lowering crime rates,and much more hoo-hah, while all the time claiming that practioners are flying. Where are the critical thinkers? Certainly not in the TM movement. The meditation was nice, but we were sold a bill of goods, and I'm so glad that I did not buy into the program. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I practise the TM Program. That is the practise of the TM Technique as taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for 15-20 minutes twice a day balanced by activity during the rest of the waking state. And the instructions for this activity is very specific: action according to the TM Program is acting according to your own tradition, your own culture, your own way of life, with everything that you want to do, using your own common sense. Voodoo TM is something else entirely. It is what I suspect over 90% of those involved fulltime with the TMO practise. Voodoo TM is the practise of the TM Technique as taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for 15-20 minutes twice a day balanced by a very separate and distinctive activity during the rest of the waking state from the activity performed by those who practise the TM Program. And the daily activity of those who practise Voodoo TM is, specifically, a Guru-dictated, Bhakti-based blind belief system performed within the orbit of a cult. What to eat, how to dress, what kind of home to live in, what kind of candy bars and honey to eat, what political views to hold. This is a cult-based activity. It is in direct opposition to and completely different from the instructions for the TM Program. Which path are YOU on? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I once practiced the original, non-VooDoo TM, that is, until the movement started to make claims of levitation, invisibility, etc. At that moment, I began to question what I was involved with, and for the first time, think critically about it. I retreated as hastily as I could. What exactly was your involvement, other than practicing the TM technique? Did you benefit from the practice? In the decades since then, the TMO has paraded out wealthy rajas in gold crowns, advanced astrology as legitimate science, charged huge bucks for pandits to chant yagyas to avert the danger that has not come, dictated that home and office must have east or north entrances, claims of lowering crime rates,and much more hoo-hah, while all the time claiming that practioners are flying. Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Also for the record, many of us who practice the TM-Sidhis techniques, including Yogic Flying, do so because we benefit from the practice in our daily lives, not because we're hoping to be able to perform supernormal feats. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I once practiced the original, non-VooDoo TM, that is, until the movement started to make claims of levitation, invisibility, etc. At that moment, I began to question what I was involved with, and for the first time, think critically about it. I retreated as hastily as I could. In the decades since then, the TMO has paraded out wealthy rajas in gold crowns, advanced astrology as legitimate science, charged huge bucks for pandits to chant yagyas to avert the danger that has not come, dictated that home and office must have east or north entrances, claims of lowering crime rates,and much more hoo-hah, while all the time claiming that practioners are flying. Where are the critical thinkers? Certainly not in the TM movement. The meditation was nice, but we were sold a bill of goods, and I'm so glad that I did not buy into the program. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: I practise the TM Program. That is the practise of the TM Technique as taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for 15-20 minutes twice a day balanced by activity during the rest of the waking state. And the instructions for this activity is very specific: action according to the TM Program is acting according to your own tradition, your own culture, your own way of life, with everything that you want to do, using your own common sense. Voodoo TM is something else entirely. It is what I suspect over 90% of those involved fulltime with the TMO practise. Voodoo TM is the practise of the TM Technique as taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for 15-20 minutes twice a day balanced by a very separate and distinctive activity during the rest of the waking state from the activity performed by those who practise the TM Program. And the daily activity of those who practise Voodoo TM is, specifically, a Guru-dictated, Bhakti-based blind belief system performed within the orbit of a cult. What to eat, how to dress, what kind of home to live in, what kind of candy bars and honey to eat, what political views to hold. This is a cult-based activity. It is in direct opposition to and completely different from the instructions for the TM Program. Which path are YOU on? Hey Dave, I understand your sentiment but don't throw the baby with the water , the non-VooDoo still working well and it would be a pity to lose. As for the VooDoo stuff, it's too bad that they TMO started the whole thing as it causes more damage to the practice itself. I think TMO couldn't resist the greed. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave bikemaster@ wrote: I once practiced the original, non-VooDoo TM, that is, until the movement started to make claims of levitation, invisibility, etc. At that moment, I began to question what I was involved with, and for the first time, think critically about it. I retreated as hastily as I could. What exactly was your involvement, other than practicing the TM technique? Did you benefit from the practice? In the decades since then, the TMO has paraded out wealthy rajas in gold crowns, advanced astrology as legitimate science, charged huge bucks for pandits to chant yagyas to avert the danger that has not come, dictated that home and office must have east or north entrances, claims of lowering crime rates,and much more hoo-hah, while all the time claiming that practioners are flying. Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild-ass years. :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave bikemaster@ wrote: I once practiced the original, non-VooDoo TM, that is, until the movement started to make claims of levitation, invisibility, etc. At that moment, I began to question what I was involved with, and for the first time, think critically about it. I retreated as hastily as I could. What exactly was your involvement, other than practicing the TM technique? Did you benefit from the practice? In the decades since then, the TMO has paraded out wealthy rajas in gold crowns, advanced astrology as legitimate science, charged huge bucks for pandits to chant yagyas to avert the danger that has not come, dictated that home and office must have east or north entrances, claims of lowering crime rates,and much more hoo- hah, while all the time claiming that practioners are flying. Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild-ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? People stopped coming to TM because it became a dishonest organisation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild-ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Voodoo TM or TM Program...which do YOU practise?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Just for the record, since about 1984, the TMO has been quite clear that actual flying has not yet been achieved, and that all practitioners are doing is hopping. Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed-up, wild-ass years. :) ...add dishonesty to the mix. Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost apex of the hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful and that's exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ possible points in the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one at the apex to publicize? Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a *teensy* bit more thought. Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest publicizing photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping parabola... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
