[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: The building was closed for some maintenance work a few days before the attack. A whole floor was closed off for months and all sorts of construction going on and no-one knew what, but dust all over the lobby for weeks before hand. I'm just sayin'. I'm not convinced that you could close off a floor and do unsupervised work on a building of world importance like this. It aint like putting a new bathroom in your apartment, there would have to be plans and consultations with all levels of management. They would have to check anything major too, probably notice all the connecting wires if it was a demo job. That is when people think the explosives were laid and some beams severed to create the demolition collapse. I know some people who probably watch too much TV want to believe that Al-Qaeda was sophisticated enough to pull this off but I strongly have my doubts about that. Buildings don't collapse like that because of fire. Usually they are put out but the WTC centre fires couldn't be reached effectively. What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? It wasn't the Muslim world just a bunch of hardcore nutters in Afghanistan. I'm sure they knew what the likely outcome was when they started, but as Bin Laden said We love death more than you love life They think being martyred is the best thing that can happen to them. It brought down the US military on their heads. If they wanted to upset Americans they would have done small suicide attacks on shopping malls. That's never happened. And after 9-11 to create more economic disorder they could have knocked out corporate jets but that's never happened either. Hey, don't put ideas in their heads. One of my first thoughts on 11/9 was that they chose the best target, not just the biggest building but one of huge symbolic importance to the west. I really don't understand people who can't except the jury is still out on 9-11 and so quickly want to believe it was Muslim terrorists. They are afraid to think about it. I am afraid to think about it. It is fear that turns people in sheep and unable to think through things for themselves. I think it's an inability to ac cept the simple truth that inspires the imagination to create these theories. And it don't say much about peoples trust in government, if I was them I'd be almost as worried about that as in terrorism. I am not saying that the government did it like some people say, but more likely an actual huge bank robbery (apparently there were reports of a lot of gold in the vaults underground - maybe federal reserve gold. During the excavation of the site, no-one was allowed in and all the debris was put on trucks and shipped off before anyone could inspect it. Easy way to cart of gold if there was any there.) Bank robbers often do not care what they have to do to get the gold. They just plan it out and do it. OffWorld I'm equally certain they would want to keep the gold away from bystanders but was that the reason? Flying planes into buildings has a rather uncertain outcome, anything could have happened they might have fallen over like trees for all anyone could have predicted. I think that the fact it *looked* like a demolition job is *why* that rumour started.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: The building was closed for some maintenance work a few days before the attack. A whole floor was closed off for months and all sorts of construction going on and no-one knew what, but dust all over the lobby for weeks before hand. I'm just sayin'. I'm not convinced that you could close off a floor and do unsupervised work on a building of world importance like this. It aint like putting a new bathroom in your apartment, there would have to be plans and consultations with all levels of management. So you are saying the owner of the building was involved (Bernstien, whatever his name is) , and other top people were either kept in the dark about what was going on, or paid off? Oh come on now, that's a bit much. Usually they are put out but the WTC centre fires couldn't be reached effectively. So you are saying that unlike any other steel frame building that was not put out by firemen and did not collapse at all, the World Trade centers collapsed in some magical way, and all three of them collapsed perfectly into their footprint. Oh come on now, that's a bit much. On the day of 9/11, I assumed that everyone would be saying that whoever the terrorists were, that somehow they got in ahead of time and planted demolotion squibs all over . I remember saying to someone on the morning of the televised collapse on 9/11, that they were demolished, in a addition to being hit by planes. Somebody got in ahead of time and did a controlled demolition I said, but I thought that was obvious to everyone. Apparently not. OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
off_world_beings wrote: - I really don't understand people who can't except the jury is still out on 9-11 and so quickly want to believe it was Muslim terrorists. They are afraid to think about it. I am afraid to think about it. It is fear that turns people in sheep and unable to think through things for themselves. I am not saying that the government did it like some people say, but more likely an actual huge bank robbery (apparently there were reports of a lot of gold in the vaults underground - maybe federal reserve gold. During the excavation of the site, no-one was allowed in and all the debris was put on trucks and shipped off before anyone could inspect it. Easy way to cart of gold if there was any there.) Bank robbers often do not care what they have to do to get the gold. They just plan it out and do it. OffWorld Just imagine if indisputable proof like actual government documents were uncovered about the operation what a stir that would cause in the sheeple. We could even imagine a scenario where a Senator comes across the information and is going to disclose it to the public but decides that revealing the documents might cause more damage than the original attacks and decides not to disclose the information. It's sort of like the think tank document that the government had commissioned back at the start of the space era. They asked what should the government do if they came across evidence of alien civilizations (like an outpost on the moon) and they were told not to disclose those because of upheavals it would create in society mainly due to damaging religious beliefs.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: Yes but can they rule out that such materials would not normally be present in either the building itself or spontaneously produced by the extreme conditions of the collapse? No, and I've never actually been convinced that they were destroyed by explosives. Not least because there was no explosion like you get when a building is deliberately brought down. And when would they have rigged up the explosives? In the normal course of the job you have to dismantle the walls of whole floors to tie them together so they don't fall outwards. I remain a sceptic. For now ;-) Isn't it reasonable that such materials might be stored somewhere in those huge building by some contractor or some legitimate enterprise? All this will do is further fuel the conspiracy theories on the WTC collapse. I'm sure it will ignite the flames of conspiracy severely. On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Hugo wrote: Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubble Stephen C. Webster Published: Saturday April 4, 2009 A team of scientists claim to have unearthed startling data from dust and debris gathered in the days and weeks after the World Trade Center towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001. In a study published by the Open Chemical Physics Journal -- a peer- reviewed, scientific publication -- Steven E. Jones and Niels Harrit level a stark allegation: that within the dust and rubble of the World Trade Center towers lays evidence of a highly engineered explosive, contrary to all federal studies of the collapses. We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center, reads the paper's abstract. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The study, however, shows that the dust was collected from four different sites, three of which were not in the immediate area surrounding the fallen towers. Most of the samples are collections of dust taken from blocks away. They claim their analysis has uncovered active thermitic material: a combination of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in a form of thermite known as nanostructured super-thermite. Thermite, used in steel welding, fireworks shows, hand grenades and demolition, can produce a chemical reaction known for extremely high temperatures focused in a very small area for a short period of time. According to the Navy's Small Business Innovation Research, super- thermite is restricted under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), which controls the export and import of defense- related material and services. This finding really goes beyond anything that has previously been shown, said Jones in a media advisory. We had to use sophisticated tools to analyze the dust because this isn't just a typical explosive, RDX or CD4 or something -- this is a highly engineered material not readily available to just anyone.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
The building was closed for some maintenance work a few days before the attack. That is when people think the explosives were laid and some beams severed to create the demolition collapse. I know some people who probably watch too much TV want to believe that Al-Qaeda was sophisticated enough to pull this off but I strongly have my doubts about that. What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? It brought down the US military on their heads. If they wanted to upset Americans they would have done small suicide attacks on shopping malls. That's never happened. And after 9-11 to create more economic disorder they could have knocked out corporate jets but that's never happened either. I really don't understand people who can't except the jury is still out on 9-11 and so quickly want to believe it was Muslim terrorists. I believe it is just posturing to appear normal. And what the fuck is normal? Hugo wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: Yes but can they rule out that such materials would not normally be present in either the building itself or spontaneously produced by the extreme conditions of the collapse? No, and I've never actually been convinced that they were destroyed by explosives. Not least because there was no explosion like you get when a building is deliberately brought down. And when would they have rigged up the explosives? In the normal course of the job you have to dismantle the walls of whole floors to tie them together so they don't fall outwards. I remain a sceptic. For now ;-) Isn't it reasonable that such materials might be stored somewhere in those huge building by some contractor or some legitimate enterprise? All this will do is further fuel the conspiracy theories on the WTC collapse. I'm sure it will ignite the flames of conspiracy severely. On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Hugo wrote: Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubble Stephen C. Webster Published: Saturday April 4, 2009 A team of scientists claim to have unearthed startling data from dust and debris gathered in the days and weeks after the World Trade Center towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001. In a study published by the Open Chemical Physics Journal -- a peer- reviewed, scientific publication -- Steven E. Jones and Niels Harrit level a stark allegation: that within the dust and rubble of the World Trade Center towers lays evidence of a highly engineered explosive, contrary to all federal studies of the collapses. We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center, reads the paper's abstract. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The study, however, shows that the dust was collected from four different sites, three of which were not in the immediate area surrounding the fallen towers. Most of the samples are collections of dust taken from blocks away. They claim their analysis has uncovered active thermitic material: a combination of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in a form of thermite known as nanostructured super-thermite. Thermite, used in steel welding, fireworks shows, hand grenades and demolition, can produce a chemical reaction known for extremely high temperatures focused in a very small area for a short period of time. According to the Navy's Small Business Innovation Research, super- thermite is restricted under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), which controls the export and import of defense- related material and services. This finding really goes beyond anything that has previously been shown, said Jones in a media advisory. We had to use sophisticated tools to analyze the dust because this isn't just a typical explosive, RDX or CD4 or something -- this is a highly engineered material not readily available to just anyone.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: I really don't understand people who can't except the jury is still out on 9-11 and so quickly want to believe it was Muslim terrorists. I believe it is just posturing to appear normal. And what the fuck is normal? Strikes across the frontier and strikes for higher wage Planet lurches to the right as ideologies engage Suddenly it's repression, moratorium on rights What did they think the politics of panic would invite? Person in the street shrugs -- Security comes first But the trouble with normal is it always gets worse Callous men in business costume speak computerese Play pinball with the Third World trying to keep it on its knees Their single crop starvation plans put sugar in your tea And the local Third World's kept on reservations you don't see It'll all go back to normal if we put our nation first But the trouble with normal is it always gets worse Fashionable fascism dominates the scene When ends don't meet it's easier to justify the means Tenants get the dregs and landlords get the cream As the grinding devolution of the democratic dream Brings us men in gas masks dancing while the shells burst The trouble with normal is it always gets worse -- Bruce Cockburn, 1981
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Bhairitu wrote: What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? Cause a hawkish US President of questionable intelligence to, as a knee-jerk reaction, go into a war which drains the nation, forcing it's economy into a tailspin AND gain support for recruiting worldwide? The RADICAL Muslim world would have a lot to gain. The moderate and progressive Muslim world would have a lot to lose.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: Vaj wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Bhairitu wrote: What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? Cause a hawkish US President of questionable intelligence to, as a knee-jerk reaction, go into a war which drains the nation, forcing it's economy into a tailspin AND gain support for recruiting worldwide? The RADICAL Muslim world would have a lot to gain. The moderate and progressive Muslim world would have a lot to lose. That's a rather superficial point of view. It is entirely possible the whole thing was a false flag operation but I wouldn't be surprised if Dubya was out of the loop. False flag operations have been used throughout history to cause wars or make money for the war profiteers. They are pretty much standard operating procedure. The military industrial complex was hurting after the Cold War ended. They needed a new war to bolster their sagging profits. There were corporations and banks under scrutiny too (and those records conveniently got destroyed during 9-11). I think they all co-conspired with rogue right leaning military to create 9-11 and use the Arabs as patsies. It just makes too much sense that way and the official story does not. The whole think looks like it was cooked up by a think tank (complete with plan B, C, and Ds) and not by a bunch of Arabs in caves. As for Muslims, just like any other religion 85% of them pay lip service to it. Some I have known were only born Muslim and never practiced it. Muhammad invented Islam to rid the area of war lords back them. Now we find ourselves once again saddled with war lords and need to get rid of them. In this time the big war lords are the military industrial complex. We don't need a religion to do this, just the truth. Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
Vaj wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Bhairitu wrote: What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? Cause a hawkish US President of questionable intelligence to, as a knee-jerk reaction, go into a war which drains the nation, forcing it's economy into a tailspin AND gain support for recruiting worldwide? The RADICAL Muslim world would have a lot to gain. The moderate and progressive Muslim world would have a lot to lose. Vaj, I say, follow the money. Who made more money off of the towers? 1. Seems to me that BushCo and the military industrial complex made the money. 2. The Arabs already had the oil, so maybe they thought that a 9/11 would raise the cost of oil almost to $150/barrel, which it did, but that wouldn't be a certainty in 2001 nearly as much as guaranteed profit from stealing Iraq's oil and having the American Army guarding 1/3 of the world's oil for the eventual use of BushCo. 3. It is well known that Saddam was going to start using the Euro instead of the dollar, and that would have massively devalued the dollar in the short term. 4. The owner of Building 7 had some insurance scam to profit from. The towers had a lot of records -- the destruction of which could have gotten some profit for certain parties. 5. Building 7 had a ton of secrets too that the CIA, FBI et al might have wanted destroyed. I think that the explosive chemical found in the dust was way too sophisticated to have been anything but a military grade, nano-particle concoction that simply couldn't happen by chance in an explosion that may or may not have had material in the towers to combine. We'll see if Obama or others pick up on these particles of explosive or not. What with Obama slowing down the inquiry into the Bush torture memos etc., it seems to me that Obama's of the mind that says: Better that our precious American not have yet another black mark upon it. Let the Bush years fade a bit, and then I'll consider if we can take the impact of such a revelation. Or, Obama's been bought and paid for long ago. Or, once he got elected, the powers that be finally told him some of the secrets that, if they but were known, would entirely set our country into a neverending roiling. For instance, what would happen to America if any of the below was authoritatively announced? 1. That the towers' attack was entirely CIA or BushCo planned and executed. 2. Area 51 stuff like: Aliens are negotiating with the Chinese and won't talk to us anymore. Hee hee...what a concept, eh? 3. The 100 MPG carburetor, 4. The cheap way to make hydrogen, 5. The fact that our antibiotics are about to be so useless that half the world will die of disease in the next few years, etc. Or, he's got the burden of Lincoln and struggles mightily to get what can be gotten done for sure, and to hope that the future will give him opportunity to smack at some of the bigger targets. Edg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
Vaj wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Bhairitu wrote: What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? Cause a hawkish US President of questionable intelligence to, as a knee-jerk reaction, go into a war which drains the nation, forcing it's economy into a tailspin AND gain support for recruiting worldwide? The RADICAL Muslim world would have a lot to gain. The moderate and progressive Muslim world would have a lot to lose. That's a rather superficial point of view. It is entirely possible the whole thing was a false flag operation but I wouldn't be surprised if Dubya was out of the loop. False flag operations have been used throughout history to cause wars or make money for the war profiteers. They are pretty much standard operating procedure. The military industrial complex was hurting after the Cold War ended. They needed a new war to bolster their sagging profits. There were corporations and banks under scrutiny too (and those records conveniently got destroyed during 9-11). I think they all co-conspired with rogue right leaning military to create 9-11 and use the Arabs as patsies. It just makes too much sense that way and the official story does not. The whole think looks like it was cooked up by a think tank (complete with plan B, C, and Ds) and not by a bunch of Arabs in caves. As for Muslims, just like any other religion 85% of them pay lip service to it. Some I have known were only born Muslim and never practiced it. Muhammad invented Islam to rid the area of war lords back them. Now we find ourselves once again saddled with war lords and need to get rid of them. In this time the big war lords are the military industrial complex. We don't need a religion to do this, just the truth.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
menkemeyer menkeme...@... wrote: Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris Chris, H. Do you believe in any conspiracies? While the logic about 400 people being unable to police all their members enough to keep them all quiet is difficult to counter, I still cannot shake the intuition alarms that 100% start ringing whenever I attend to many of the various conspiracies. Not that I think there's a Bigfoot to be found or a UFO stored in Area 51, but that there can be no proof of a negative -- which leaves the conspiracy in a moot debate, and thus open to every manner of speculation. BTW, what part about follow the money didn't you get? What would be your bottom line price? What amount would bribe you? Given the hardness of the upbringing of some quite capable people, I have no trouble imagining a bought and paid for cabal of some sort. We know how hard it is to get prisoners to rat on each other or for our POWs to be tortured into making anti-USA statements -- certainly it's possible for some high IQ, black-ops, group to have made themselves into true believers that their drastic actions would better our country's homeland security, and, once done, they'd all have prison to face if they do come forward. We certainly have no trouble getting our troops to invade any country, so, why not a well rewarded group of true believers? Yeah, again, 400 is a lot of folks to keep handcuffed until they all die, and when they get older, they'll value their integrity more and their blind loyalties less, but that just means they have to be killed off too if they show any sign of being a whistle-blower. For the Y2K issue, we saw that virtually every single company refused to come forward and reveal the true state of their computers and what it would take to reprogram them. Somehow the nightmare never manifested, but, we can certainly learn that companies are paying their employees enough to keep them mum about such matters. That's pretty cheap as pay offs and bribes go, eh? Not that the electric companies were hiding anything, but that they showed the wherewithal to face the world with a blank stare and denial running at the redline. I attended a confrontation with the electric company during that time and shouted questions from the group -- the guy simply did what the TBs here do -- used every manner of obfuscation, weak answers, I don't know yet...I'll get back to you, diversions and outright lying. Yet, I'm sure he didn't get a bonus to cover his company's ass -- even though he was avoiding giving out complete truths. He knew if he told the true status that there'd be a much bigger chance at lawsuits etc. He was there to massage us until it was too late. Since nothing happened of note, it was all for naught, but some real life lines were drawn in the sand by some very underpaid folks. It doesn't take much to get someone to lie for someone else. Edg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
menkemeyer wrote: Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris There are many ways to cover the tracks of 400 people (it has been estimated that it might have been only 200 or less). One is compartmentalization. An example of that would be someone without the clearance would be kept from knowing what someone with higher clearance knows. Or it is not in their area so they are told they can't have access to that information. Also people may have been involved that had no idea that what they did contributed. There has been an accusation which should be entertained whether it is the truth or not that the remote planes were flown by military staff who believed they were flying a simulation for the war games going on that day. They didn't realize what they had done until they took a break to check sports scores and saw the news. Supposedly they were threatened with death or family member death if they spoke out (but who would believe them anyway). Now that may well be a work of fiction but a logical scenario that might have played out. You are aware there were war game exercises going on that day? You are aware that the traffic controllers were trying to verify if what they were seeing was real or part of the game? And if some people spoke out they would be discredited as being kooks anyway. But some with credibility who wanted to speak out are probably no longer with us. As much as 24 is a work of fiction (and often silly as to be a comedy) I think the current scenario is a good attempt to show that false flag and the interests of the military industrial complex can take precedent over the interests of the public. I have a relative, retired military, who spoke vehemently about the Clinton administration leaving the military weak. It is not that much of a stretch to believe that some of these folks would support an operation like 9-11 if they thought that it would regain military supremacy for the US. Right wingers are very hard core and very stubborn about these things. That makes them dangerous.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
One not being able to see and understand that said below, certainly means they are programmed with nonsense like the masses. menkemeyer wrote: Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris There are many ways to cover the tracks of 400 people (it has been estimated that it might have been only 200 or less). One is compartmentalizatio n. An example of that would be someone without the clearance would be kept from knowing what someone with higher clearance knows. Or it is not in their area so they are told they can't have access to that information. Also people may have been involved that had no idea that what they did contributed. There has been an accusation which should be entertained whether it is the truth or not that the remote planes were flown by military staff who believed they were flying a simulation for the war games going on that day. They didn't realize what they had done until they took a break to check sports scores and saw the news. Supposedly they were threatened with death or family member death if they spoke out (but who would believe them anyway). Now that may well be a work of fiction but a logical scenario that might have played out. You are aware there were war game exercises going on that day? You are aware that the traffic controllers were trying to verify if what they were seeing was real or part of the game? And if some people spoke out they would be discredited as being kooks anyway. But some with credibility who wanted to speak out are probably no longer with us. As much as 24 is a work of fiction (and often silly as to be a comedy) I think the current scenario is a good attempt to show that false flag and the interests of the military industrial complex can take precedent over the interests of the public. I have a relative, retired military, who spoke vehemently about the Clinton administration leaving the military weak. It is not that much of a stretch to believe that some of these folks would support an operation like 9-11 if they thought that it would regain military supremacy for the US. Right wingers are very hard core and very stubborn about these things. That makes them dangerous.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
Which post are you referring to? Arhata Osho wrote: One not being able to see and understand that said below, certainly means they are programmed with nonsense like the masses. menkemeyer wrote: Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris There are many ways to cover the tracks of 400 people (it has been estimated that it might have been only 200 or less). One is compartmentalizatio n. An example of that would be someone without the clearance would be kept from knowing what someone with higher clearance knows. Or it is not in their area so they are told they can't have access to that information. Also people may have been involved that had no idea that what they did contributed. There has been an accusation which should be entertained whether it is the truth or not that the remote planes were flown by military staff who believed they were flying a simulation for the war games going on that day. They didn't realize what they had done until they took a break to check sports scores and saw the news. Supposedly they were threatened with death or family member death if they spoke out (but who would believe them anyway). Now that may well be a work of fiction but a logical scenario that might have played out. You are aware there were war game exercises going on that day? You are aware that the traffic controllers were trying to verify if what they were seeing was real or part of the game? And if some people spoke out they would be discredited as being kooks anyway. But some with credibility who wanted to speak out are probably no longer with us. As much as 24 is a work of fiction (and often silly as to be a comedy) I think the current scenario is a good attempt to show that false flag and the interests of the military industrial complex can take precedent over the interests of the public. I have a relative, retired military, who spoke vehemently about the Clinton administration leaving the military weak. It is not that much of a stretch to believe that some of these folks would support an operation like 9-11 if they thought that it would regain military supremacy for the US. Right wingers are very hard core and very stubborn about these things. That makes them dangerous.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
The one explaining how 9-11 could have been an inside job and how people could keep quite. Which post are you referring to? Arhata Osho wrote: One not being able to see and understand that said below, certainly means they are programmed with nonsense like the masses. menkemeyer wrote: Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris There are many ways to cover the tracks of 400 people (it has been estimated that it might have been only 200 or less). One is compartmentalizatio n. An example of that would be someone without the clearance would be kept from knowing what someone with higher clearance knows. Or it is not in their area so they are told they can't have access to that information. Also people may have been involved that had no idea that what they did contributed. There has been an accusation which should be entertained whether it is the truth or not that the remote planes were flown by military staff who believed they were flying a simulation for the war games going on that day. They didn't realize what they had done until they took a break to check sports scores and saw the news. Supposedly they were threatened with death or family member death if they spoke out (but who would believe them anyway). Now that may well be a work of fiction but a logical scenario that might have played out. You are aware there were war game exercises going on that day? You are aware that the traffic controllers were trying to verify if what they were seeing was real or part of the game? And if some people spoke out they would be discredited as being kooks anyway. But some with credibility who wanted to speak out are probably no longer with us. As much as 24 is a work of fiction (and often silly as to be a comedy) I think the current scenario is a good attempt to show that false flag and the interests of the military industrial complex can take precedent over the interests of the public. I have a relative, retired military, who spoke vehemently about the Clinton administration leaving the military weak. It is not that much of a stretch to believe that some of these folks would support an operation like 9-11 if they thought that it would regain military supremacy for the US. Right wingers are very hard core and very stubborn about these things. That makes them dangerous.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Arhata Osho arhatafreespe...@... wrote: The one explaining how 9-11 could have been an inside job and how people could keep quite. They couldn't. This is one of those topics that pop up from time to time that drives anti-conspiracy posters nuts, and then it disappears. Government dweebs don't keep their mouthes shut and NOT rat out their friends and co-conspirators to save their asses. You nailed it brother. Which post are you referring to? Arhata Osho wrote: One not being able to see and understand that said below, certainly means they are programmed with nonsense like the masses. menkemeyer wrote: Here is the truth if you can handel it. we live in an age where the President of the United States can't even get a blow job in the White House with out the whole world finding out. you really think the 400 or so people it would take to pull of the lose change type conspiracy have never talked or anybody has found out anything about it. you all live in a paralell universe where people make up stories, then teach themselves how to believe them, then want other people to be as crazy as they are. Have another crazey day. Chris There are many ways to cover the tracks of 400 people (it has been estimated that it might have been only 200 or less). One is compartmentalizatio n. An example of that would be someone without the clearance would be kept from knowing what someone with higher clearance knows. Or it is not in their area so they are told they can't have access to that information. Also people may have been involved that had no idea that what they did contributed. There has been an accusation which should be entertained whether it is the truth or not that the remote planes were flown by military staff who believed they were flying a simulation for the war games going on that day. They didn't realize what they had done until they took a break to check sports scores and saw the news. Supposedly they were threatened with death or family member death if they spoke out (but who would believe them anyway). Now that may well be a work of fiction but a logical scenario that might have played out. You are aware there were war game exercises going on that day? You are aware that the traffic controllers were trying to verify if what they were seeing was real or part of the game? And if some people spoke out they would be discredited as being kooks anyway. But some with credibility who wanted to speak out are probably no longer with us. As much as 24 is a work of fiction (and often silly as to be a comedy) I think the current scenario is a good attempt to show that false flag and the interests of the military industrial complex can take precedent over the interests of the public. I have a relative, retired military, who spoke vehemently about the Clinton administration leaving the military weak. It is not that much of a stretch to believe that some of these folks would support an operation like 9-11 if they thought that it would regain military supremacy for the US. Right wingers are very hard core and very stubborn about these things. That makes them dangerous.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: Yes but can they rule out that such materials would not normally be present in either the building itself or spontaneously produced by the extreme conditions of the collapse? No, and I've never actually been convinced that they were destroyed by explosives. Not least because there was no explosion like you get when a building is deliberately brought down Eyewitness Accounts of WTC Explosions on 911 (Part One) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n593Hth8h9M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n593Hth8h9M OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: Yes but can they rule out that such materials would not normally be present in either the building itself or spontaneously produced by the extreme conditions of the collapse? Isn't it reasonable that such materials might be stored somewhere in those huge building by some contractor or some legitimate enterprise? I'm pretty sure thermite is not an explosive used unless you want to demolish something very big and cut through steel girders. YOu can see the melting from the thermite on these girders. No temperature from burning fuel or burning building could come even remotely close to cutting through this girder. Offworld
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: The building was closed for some maintenance work a few days before the attack. A whole floor was closed off for months and all sorts of construction going on and no-one knew what, but dust all over the lobby for weeks before hand. I'm just sayin'. That is when people think the explosives were laid and some beams severed to create the demolition collapse. I know some people who probably watch too much TV want to believe that Al-Qaeda was sophisticated enough to pull this off but I strongly have my doubts about that. Buildings don't collapse like that because of fire. What would the Muslim world have to gain from the attacks anyway? It brought down the US military on their heads. If they wanted to upset Americans they would have done small suicide attacks on shopping malls. That's never happened. And after 9-11 to create more economic disorder they could have knocked out corporate jets but that's never happened either. I really don't understand people who can't except the jury is still out on 9-11 and so quickly want to believe it was Muslim terrorists. They are afraid to think about it. I am afraid to think about it. It is fear that turns people in sheep and unable to think through things for themselves. I am not saying that the government did it like some people say, but more likely an actual huge bank robbery (apparently there were reports of a lot of gold in the vaults underground - maybe federal reserve gold. During the excavation of the site, no-one was allowed in and all the debris was put on trucks and shipped off before anyone could inspect it. Easy way to cart of gold if there was any there.) Bank robbers often do not care what they have to do to get the gold. They just plan it out and do it. OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Arhata Osho arhatafreespe...@... wrote: The one explaining how 9-11 could have been an inside job and how people could keep quite. They couldn't. This is one of those topics that pop up from time to time that drives anti-conspiracy posters nuts, and then it disappears. Government dweebs don't keep their mouthes shut and NOT rat out their friends and co-conspirators to save their asses. You nailed it brother. Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? Arhata was being a bit ambiguous in his reply but I think he means that people buying the official story are the ones programmed with nonsense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Arhata Osho arhatafreespeech@ wrote: The one explaining how 9-11 could have been an inside job and how people could keep quite. They couldn't. This is one of those topics that pop up from time to time that drives anti-conspiracy posters nuts, and then it disappears. Government dweebs don't keep their mouthes shut and NOT rat out their friends and co-conspirators to save their asses. You nailed it brother. Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? Arhata was being a bit ambiguous in his reply but I think he means that people buying the official story are the ones programmed with nonsense. And everyone forgets the 'suicide' of the government scientist who was going to be investigated for the anthrax, and several other fishy deaths and suicides that seem way too many coincidences since they were always people who may have given damning evidence if they lived -- but guess what, they conveniently died in plane crashes or 'committed suicide' OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote: Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? No, but I did business with enough of them to know that they aren't special in any way. And for a while there, after 9-11,the people involved would have had to have been James Bond to keep it all together. Arhata was being a bit ambiguous in his reply but I think he means that people buying the official story are the ones programmed with nonsense. You may be right. Arhata, pick a card...but before you answer, I hope you will read what Off has written below. He is on the conspiracy team. And everyone forgets the 'suicide' of the government scientist who was going to be investigated for the anthrax, and several other fishy deaths and suicides that seem way too many coincidences since they were always people who may have given damning evidence if they lived -- but guess what, they conveniently died in plane crashes or 'committed suicide' OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Arhata Osho arhatafreespeech@ wrote: The one explaining how 9-11 could have been an inside job and how people could keep quite. They couldn't. This is one of those topics that pop up from time to time that drives anti-conspiracy posters nuts, and then it disappears. Government dweebs don't keep their mouthes shut and NOT rat out their friends and co-conspirators to save their asses. You nailed it brother. Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? Arhata was being a bit ambiguous in his reply but I think he means that people buying the official story are the ones programmed with nonsense. And everyone forgets the 'suicide' of the government scientist who was going to be investigated for the anthrax, and several other fishy deaths and suicides that seem way too many coincidences since they were always people who may have given damning evidence if they lived -- but guess what, they conveniently died in plane crashes or 'committed suicide' OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
9-11 story obviously is different than the government line. The country, unfortunately would go topsy turvey if the real story came out, which it won't in our lifetime if ever. It's a 'follow the money' situation. Transparency - ha! Never happen with WTC's. WTC 7 of course is a key. My nephew was in military intelligence with a pretty inside understanding of 'intelligence' - he said, 'if the CIA is there, the building is 'set' to implode! You can bet no one would have rented in WTC 7 if they new that! I had been on every floor of all 3 buildings many times with many memories. --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, off_world_beings no_re...@.. . wrote: Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? No, but I did business with enough of them to know that they aren't special in any way. And for a while there, after 9-11,the people involved would have had to have been James Bond to keep it all together. Arhata was being a bit ambiguous in his reply but I think he means that people buying the official story are the ones programmed with nonsense. You may be right. Arhata, pick a card...but before you answer, I hope you will read what Off has written below. He is on the conspiracy team. And everyone forgets the 'suicide' of the government scientist who was going to be investigated for the anthrax, and several other fishy deaths and suicides that seem way too many coincidences since they were always people who may have given damning evidence if they lived -- but guess what, they conveniently died in plane crashes or 'committed suicide' OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com mailto:FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com , Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com mailto:FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com , Arhata Osho arhatafreespeech@ wrote: The one explaining how 9-11 could have been an inside job and how people could keep quite. They couldn't. This is one of those topics that pop up from time to time that drives anti-conspiracy posters nuts, and then it disappears. Government dweebs don't keep their mouthes shut and NOT rat out their friends and co-conspirators to save their asses. You nailed it brother. Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? Arhata was being a bit ambiguous in his reply but I think he means that people buying the official story are the ones programmed with nonsense. And everyone forgets the 'suicide' of the government scientist who was going to be investigated for the anthrax, and several other fishy deaths and suicides that seem way too many coincidences since they were always people who may have given damning evidence if they lived -- but guess what, they conveniently died in plane crashes or 'committed suicide' OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Arhata Osho arhatafreespe...@... wrote S Bhairitu, I was just wondering if anyone knew of something that goes well with crow? Something that makes the crow flavor linger a bit less? My sincere I was so wrong apologies. 9-11 story obviously is different than the government line. The country, unfortunately would go topsy turvey if the real story came out, which it won't in our lifetime if ever. It's a 'follow the money' situation. Transparency - ha! Never happen with WTC's. WTC 7 of course is a key.� My nephew was in military intelligence with a pretty inside understanding of 'intelligence' - he said, 'if the CIA is there, the building is 'set' to implode!� You can bet no one would have rented in WTC 7 if they new that!� I had been on every floor of all 3 buildings many times with many memories. --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, off_world_beings no_reply@ . wrote: Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? No, but I did business with enough of them to know that they aren't special in any way. And for a while there, after 9-11,the people involved would have had to have been James Bond to keep it all together. Arhata was being a bit ambiguous in his reply but I think he means that people buying the official story are the ones programmed with nonsense. You may be right. Arhata, pick a card...but before you answer, I hope you will read what Off has written below. He is on the conspiracy team. And everyone forgets the 'suicide' of the government scientist who was going to be investigated for the anthrax, and several other fishy deaths and suicides that seem way too many coincidences since they were always people who may have given damning evidence if they lived -- but guess what, they conveniently died in plane crashes or 'committed suicide' OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com mailto:FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com , Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com mailto:FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com , Arhata Osho arhatafreespeech@ wrote: The one explaining how 9-11 could have been an inside job and how people could keep quite. They couldn't. This is one of those topics that pop up from time to time that drives anti-conspiracy posters nuts, and then it disappears. Government dweebs don't keep their mouthes shut and NOT rat out their friends and co-conspirators to save their asses. You nailed it brother. Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? Arhata was being a bit ambiguous in his reply but I think he means that people buying the official story are the ones programmed with nonsense. And everyone forgets the 'suicide' of the government scientist who was going to be investigated for the anthrax, and several other fishy deaths and suicides that seem way too many coincidences since they were always people who may have given damning evidence if they lived -- but guess what, they conveniently died in plane crashes or 'committed suicide' OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: Yes but can they rule out that such materials would not normally be present in either the building itself or spontaneously produced by the extreme conditions of the collapse? Isn't it reasonable that such materials might be stored somewhere in those huge building by some contractor or some legitimate enterprise? I'm pretty sure thermite is not an explosive used unless you want to demolish something very big and cut through steel girders. YOu can see the melting from the thermite on these girders. No temperature from burning fuel or burning building could come even remotely close to cutting through this girder. Offworld That was the picture that came to mind on this. I believe those columns on the lower levels were sixteen by sixty inches with a four inch wall thickness. Being cut on such a relatively precise angle as in demolitions, saying it was caused by jet fuel is strictly BS.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Arhata Osho arhatafreespeech@ wrote: The one explaining how 9-11 could have been an inside job and how people could keep quite. They couldn't. This is one of those topics that pop up from time to time that drives anti-conspiracy posters nuts, and then it disappears. Government dweebs don't keep their mouthes shut and NOT rat out their friends and co-conspirators to save their asses. You nailed it brother. Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? Arhata was being a bit ambiguous in his reply but I think he means that people buying the official story are the ones programmed with nonsense. And everyone forgets the 'suicide' of the government scientist who was going to be investigated for the anthrax, and several other fishy deaths and suicides that seem way too many coincidences since they were always people who may have given damning evidence if they lived -- but guess what, they conveniently died in plane crashes or 'committed suicide' OffWorld suicide-- suicided, became a verb.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote: Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? No, but I did business with enough of them to know that they aren't special in any way. And for a while there, after 9-11,the people involved would have had to have been James Bond to keep it all together. Well, I have worked in the government as a temp for EDS. Most don't know what is going on so that is why you wouldn't have heard of anything. Things are compartmentalized. All those G levels. Military and intel officers (I knew some of the latter from my brother's business) won't talk if pressed. I would have loved to have dug deeper with my relative regarding 9-11 but it was not the time. I just replied to his comment on the military cutback and told him that I didn't believe the official story on 9-11 to see his reaction. Some other time I'll dig deeper if I get anything. Another relative worked in the Pentagon in the section that was hit but was working at home that day because that section was being remodeled (did the press ever mention that -- I think they did). I would love to press him but I think his wife (my relative) divorced him so I won't get the chance.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
Maybe some BBQ sauce? Collard greens? Actually can't blame you much due to the ambiguity of Arhata's post. curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Arhata Osho arhatafreespe...@... wrote S Bhairitu, I was just wondering if anyone knew of something that goes well with crow? Something that makes the crow flavor linger a bit less? My sincere I was so wrong apologies.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: Curtis, have you ever worked for the federal government? No, but I did business with enough of them to know that they aren't special in any way. And for a while there, after 9-11,the people involved would have had to have been James Bond to keep it all together. Well, I have worked in the government as a temp for EDS. Most don't know what is going on so that is why you wouldn't have heard of anything. Things are compartmentalized. All those G levels. Military and intel officers I know there are all sorts of monkey business deals in the government, I just don't buy the 9-11 conspiracy thing. But inprinciple I believe in the idea that we should always challenge what the government tells us so I'm with you in general, just not in this specific case. (I knew some of the latter from my brother's business) won't talk if pressed. I would have loved to have dug deeper with my relative regarding 9-11 but it was not the time. I just replied to his comment on the military cutback and told him that I didn't believe the official story on 9-11 to see his reaction. Some other time I'll dig deeper if I get anything. Another relative worked in the Pentagon in the section that was hit but was working at home that day because that section was being remodeled (did the press ever mention that -- I think they did). I would love to press him but I think his wife (my relative) divorced him so I won't get the chance.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WTC - New evidence for use of explosives--nuts
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: curtisdeltablues wrote: I know there are all sorts of monkey business deals in the government, I just don't buy the 9-11 conspiracy thing. But inprinciple I believe in the idea that we should always challenge what the government tells us so I'm with you in general, just not in this specific case. And the government should not be primarily telling us how it is -- we are the ones tasked to tell the government how it is. And how to do it. It may seem a naive point, but in my view its fundamental. A sort of foreground / background, frame and reference issue. If you give up on that -- then the government, or those who seek to manipulate and take power via it, have won. Then one has abdicated their power, their free thinking.
