Re: [Flightgear-devel] AIEntity.hxx:49: error: `ssgBranch' has not been declared

[Jason Cox]

Fred,
thanks for the reply but i am still having problems.
I have cvs up -PAd in both SimGear and FlightGear but i still have the
compiler error. i also can not find any mention of a new branch in
Simgear to take advantage of the OSG.
what is the cvs command to get the new branch ?
Jason



On Tue, 2006-11-07 at 08:58 +0100, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
> Selon Jason Cox :
> 
> > Hi all,
> > i have just done an update via cvs today and have the following
> > problem,
> >
> > make[2]: Entering directory `/DATA/src/Flightgear/Flightgear/src/ATC'
> > if g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../src/Include -I../.. -I../../src
> > -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include  -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT -MT
> > atis.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/atis.Tpo" -c -o atis.o atis.cxx; \
> > then mv -f ".deps/atis.Tpo" ".deps/atis.Po"; else rm -f
> > ".deps/atis.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
> > In file included from AIPlane.hxx:27,
> >  from tower.hxx:37,
> >  from ATCmgr.hxx:34,
> >  from atis.cxx:50:
> > AIEntity.hxx:49: error: `ssgBranch' has not been declared
> > AIEntity.hxx:49: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `model' with no
> > type
> > AIEntity.hxx:70: error: `ssgBranch' was not declared in this scope
> > AIEntity.hxx:70: error: template argument 1 is invalid
> > AIEntity.hxx:70: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `_model' with no
> > type
> > make[2]: *** [atis.o] Error 1
> >
> >
> > Build system is Gentoo Linux on ADM64 with lattest plib,simgear and
> > flightgear
> > i have also downloaded,built and install OSG
> >
> > has anyone seen or know of this problem ?
> 
> It looks like your version of AIEntity.hxx is not up-to-date. There is no
> ssgBranch reference currently in that file.
> 
> Maybe you mixed the plib branch with the OSG branch. Make sure you 'make
> install'ed the proper SimGear.
> 
> -Fred
> 
> --
> Frédéric Bouvier
> http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
> http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
> http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer
> 
> -
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> ___
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
> 


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] MSVC Linking trouble

[Thomas Biwer]

> This symbol should have a virtual, for instance.
>
> Where are your plib header from? I would recomend
> http://www.oflebbe.de/oflebbe/FlightGear/plib.zip
> or recompile it yourself.
>
> Olaf
>


Well, that was what I didn't understand... I checked all header files
and couldn't find a mistake in them.
The problem was: I linked against the wrong FlightGearLib.lib ...
There was a previous version of it in my directory that I didn't
notice. Once I deleted it and linked against the right build
FlightGear-Lib it all worked fine.

It now works and I got a much better performance than with the version
compiled with Cygwin. Starting time has shortened significantly and
Framerates are much higher (Cygwin 11-20fps, MSVC 30-50fps).

Thank you for your help.

Best,
Thomas

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] XML Property synonym mechanism?

[Erik Hofman]

Rémi Lafage wrote:

> Thus I would like to specify the 
> /instrumentation/attitude-indicator/indicated-roll-deg property
> to be a synonym of the /orientation/roll-deg property.

This can be done using aliases:

  

   

  


Erik


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Again: VATSIM and FlightGear?

[Martin Spott]

Hi Holger,

Holger Wirtz wrote:

> But what about a "black-box" outside of FlightGear which acts as a
> gateway to VATSIM? This program may be not open source but it is quite
> not necessary because it can use the flexible protocol architecture of
> FlightGear to communicate with VATSIM.
> 
> How about this for the FlighGear community? If this is acceptable I
> would suggest that I try to contact VATSIM and will hear what they mean
> about this.

It depends on the result you expect from this approach  :-)
Do you think such a solution would work on every platform that
FlightGear currently supports ?

Cheers,
Martin.
-- 
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AIEntity.hxx:49: error: `ssgBranch' has not been declared

[Frederic Bouvier]

Quoting Jason Cox :

> Fred,
>   thanks for the reply but i am still having problems.
> I have cvs up -PAd in both SimGear and FlightGear but i still have the
> compiler error. i also can not find any mention of a new branch in
> Simgear to take advantage of the OSG.
> what is the cvs command to get the new branch ?
> Jason

the OSG "branch" :

cvs up -PdA

the plib branch :

cvs up -Pd -r PRE_OSG_PLIB_20061029

You should make sure that the old plib SimGear is not in /usr/local/include and
/usr/local/lib

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AIEntity.hxx:49: error: `ssgBranch' has not been declared

[Jason Cox]

Fred,
thats odd. this is exactly what i do via a script (change to SimGear
dir, cvs up -PAd, autogen.sh,confingure ...) so i dont know why i get
the error.
I have done a make uninstall and gone from there with no luck. is there
a configure switch in FlightGear that i am ment to use to set it to
osg ?
Jason


On Tue, 2006-11-07 at 10:14 +0100, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
> Quoting Jason Cox :
> 
> > Fred,
> > thanks for the reply but i am still having problems.
> > I have cvs up -PAd in both SimGear and FlightGear but i still have the
> > compiler error. i also can not find any mention of a new branch in
> > Simgear to take advantage of the OSG.
> > what is the cvs command to get the new branch ?
> > Jason
> 
> the OSG "branch" :
> 
> cvs up -PdA
> 
> the plib branch :
> 
> cvs up -Pd -r PRE_OSG_PLIB_20061029
> 
> You should make sure that the old plib SimGear is not in /usr/local/include 
> and
> /usr/local/lib
> 
> -Fred
> 
> --
> Frédéric Bouvier
> http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
> http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
> http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer
> 
> -
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> ___
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
> 


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AIEntity.hxx:49: error: `ssgBranch' has not been declared

[Frederic Bouvier]

I repeat :
 You should make sure that the old plib SimGear is not in /usr/local/include
 and /usr/local/lib. Or in another directory.

-Fred


Quoting Jason Cox :

> Fred,
>   thats odd. this is exactly what i do via a script (change to SimGear
> dir, cvs up -PAd, autogen.sh,confingure ...) so i dont know why i get
> the error.
> I have done a make uninstall and gone from there with no luck. is there
> a configure switch in FlightGear that i am ment to use to set it to
> osg ?
> Jason
>
>
> On Tue, 2006-11-07 at 10:14 +0100, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
> > Quoting Jason Cox :
> >
> > > Fred,
> > >   thanks for the reply but i am still having problems.
> > > I have cvs up -PAd in both SimGear and FlightGear but i still have the
> > > compiler error. i also can not find any mention of a new branch in
> > > Simgear to take advantage of the OSG.
> > > what is the cvs command to get the new branch ?
> > > Jason
> >
> > the OSG "branch" :
> >
> > cvs up -PdA
> >
> > the plib branch :
> >
> > cvs up -Pd -r PRE_OSG_PLIB_20061029
> >
> > You should make sure that the old plib SimGear is not in /usr/local/include
> and
> > /usr/local/lib
> >
> > -Fred
> >
> > --
> > Frédéric Bouvier
> > http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
> > http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
> > http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer
> >
> > -
> > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job
> easier
> > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> > ___
> > Flightgear-devel mailing list
> > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
> >
>
>
> -
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> ___
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>


--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG Performance on WIndows

[Martin Spott]

Olaf Flebbe wrote:

> Can somebody confirm that the framerate with OSG is better compared to 
> plib on Linux? Default c172 at KSFO, please.

I'd suggest to narrow the environment conditions to something
reproducable, because different features that people activate via
properties might have different frame rate penalties on different
setups. So I'd suggest the following if you like to compare numbers:

(Re)move _any_ hand-optimized $HOME/.fgfsrc or other preferences file,
start 'fgfs' just with:

  --timeofday=noon --prop:/sim/rendering/fps-display=true

and nothing else. This should give you a 800x600 window on Unix, wait
until the AI aircraft on 28L has just taken off the runway and now read
the fps number. This gives me approx 58/59 fps with pre-OSG and 48/49
fps with OSG on Debian AMD64 with everything compiled as 64 bit
binaries.

Regards,
Martin.
-- 
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Antonov AN-2 ready for download

[AJ MacLeod]

Hi Yurik,

Thank you very much for making this available under the GPL for flightgear.  
It's a very nice model, with some innovative touches.

The instrument textures are great... they'd look even better on 3d 
instruments ;-)

The main problem with the 2d panel is the way it disappears if one looks 
around - this problem was recently fixed in the pc7 and it would be a big 
improvement if it was done in the an2.

I hope that one of our "data" committers will add this to CVS soon, it'll be a 
fantastic addition to the hangar.

The only concern I have is about the flight manual - we have to be very 
careful about copyright here.  If the manual is still in copyright then 
perhaps it would be better if you kept it available for download (for 
example) on your website and provided a link within the an2 documentation.  
That way, the project avoids any potential copyright problems and Russian 
speakers can still get to read the manual.  I wish I could!

> ftp://ftp.megasignal.com/pub/FlightGear/an2.tar.gz
> Warning! Total size: 18 Mb!
We don't mind quantity at all so long as it's of good quality :-)

Cheers,

AJ

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] New Release of fgfs-builder

[Ralf Gerlich]

Hello all,

I have just released a new version of fgfs-builder at
ftp://ftp.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Misc_rag/fgfs-builder-current.tar.gz

The new version includes the setup for the new OSG-based version. I
modularised the structure of the build system. It still includes
automatic checkout from CVS and source-downloads where possible.

Cheers,
Ralf

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] OpenGL issue; what's the cause?

[Roberto Inzerillo]

Hi,
 I've got a question about OpenGL shadows. In the picture 
http://www.laubfrosch.it/public/tmp/squared_shadow.jpg you can see the 
shadow is sqaured.

Does this depend on my graphic card, on the OpenGL interface, on Plib, 
or is FlightGear not capable of rendering smooth shadows on rounded 
surfaces (of course, I know those surfaces are not really rounded, since 
they are made of many plane polygons).

   Roberto


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Didier Fabert]

hy,

a reason to use OSG is a perf improvement with SMP. but i see nothing about it 
here.
my processor (amd 4200 double core) occupation is always 50-55%. perhaps is it 
not done yet? 

on the other hand, my processor let me use Atlas without reduce fgfs perf.
ps: fgfs is compiled with the "--with-threads" option

-- 
Didier Fabert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
KFreeFlight project : A FlightGear GUI-Frontend designed for KDE users
http://kfreeflight.sourceforge.net

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear and VATSIM

[Didier Fabert]

Le lundi 6 novembre 2006 13:07, Holger Wirtz a écrit :
> Hehe, I know what an open source project is because I use Linux and GNU
> utils since more than ten years. ;-)
>
> What I try to adept is the following:
> - When I take plenty of my free time and get trouble with my wife and my
>   children, than I won't write (open) code for the trash.
> - I think it would make lots of fun for me to write something like an
>   radio/atc addon for FlightGear - but only if this work will not end up
>   in /dev/null.
> - If there are plans for connecting FlightGear to VATSIM or integrate
>   VATSIM into FlightGear, I need to know this (see above).
>
> All I want wo avoid is to write code for something that will never be
> used because there are plans for connecting to other well known
> available services - if they are open source or not.
>
> And what I also wrote in further email:
> Maybe there is much interest in third party software for FlightGear that
> implements the NDA-Code... why not? For my personal sight of the things
> it might be simpler to include VATSIM via a gateway and use lots of
> already written software for ATC.
>
> But it seems that that this is more a political problem than a technical.
> That's not a problem for me but I wan't to know what I should do.
>
> Regards, Holger

i see i cannot be clear in english :-(

i just want to say to you : it's impossible to include it in flightgear 
because of license issues. but as said curt you can make a "gateway between 
flightgear and vatsim.

but one thing to try : if a lot of people write an email to vatsim for 
including flightgear, perhaps they write themself the gateway.

-- 
Didier Fabert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
KFreeFlight project : A FlightGear GUI-Frontend designed for KDE users
http://kfreeflight.sourceforge.net

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] [offtopic] Metar plugin for site

[Ioan Suciu]

Does any one know from a weather site what provides plugins with metar to inplement in my site? or rss feeds with metar data?thanksIS
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OpenGL issue; what's the cause?

[Frederic Bouvier]

Quoting Roberto Inzerillo :

> Hi,
>  I've got a question about OpenGL shadows. In the picture
> http://www.laubfrosch.it/public/tmp/squared_shadow.jpg you can see the
> shadow is sqaured.
>
> Does this depend on my graphic card, on the OpenGL interface, on Plib,
> or is FlightGear not capable of rendering smooth shadows on rounded
> surfaces (of course, I know those surfaces are not really rounded, since
> they are made of many plane polygons).

It just depends on the number of facets you used to model your aircraft. You
already know that a model is made of triangles and quads and if it looks
rounded, it's only because colors are interpolated between vertices, depending
on normals. If you remove the 'smooth' attributes, you'll see that a quad is
fully lit or fully shaded because its normal point toward the sun or not.

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Frederic Bouvier]

Quoting Didier Fabert :

> hy,
>
> a reason to use OSG is a perf improvement with SMP. but i see nothing about
> it
> here.
> my processor (amd 4200 double core) occupation is always 50-55%. perhaps is
> it
> not done yet?
>
> on the other hand, my processor let me use Atlas without reduce fgfs perf.
> ps: fgfs is compiled with the "--with-threads" option

FGFS doesn't use threading much at that time. Only for the scenery loader and
metar. One can thing of putting the FDM or AI in other threads, or maybe even
divide the viewport into small areas that could be rendered in parallel. I
don't know if its doable, but for now, you will only see an improvement running
multiple programs in parallel. As you already see, Atlas or Terrasync can run on
their own core and not disturb FG.

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Release of fgfs-builder

[Ralf Gerlich]

Hi,

and here we go: The first update. ;-)

ftp://ftp.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Misc_rag/fgfs-builder-current.tar.gz
(alias
ftp://ftp.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Misc_rag/fgfs-builder-20061107-2.tar.gz)

Fixes an issue with the automatic downloading and with OpenThreads
dependencies in OpenProducer. Thanks to Douglas Campos for the bug report.

Cheers,
Ralf

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Curtis Olson]

On 11/7/06, Frederic Bouvier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
FGFS doesn't use threading much at that time. Only for the scenery loader andmetar. One can thing of putting the FDM or AI in other threads, or maybe evendivide the viewport into small areas that could be rendered in parallel. I
don't know if its doable, but for now, you will only see an improvement runningmultiple programs in parallel. As you already see, Atlas or Terrasync can run ontheir own core and not disturb FG.
In FlightGear we intentionally minimize the use of threading to places where there is a huge need.Adding a thread significantly increases the complexity of the code and can hide a large variety of execution order and timing problems which can be incredibly difficult to debug and fix.
If we are ever add additional threads, it will be only because we are forced to by clear and overwhelming performance considerations (and not for design or preference reasons.) Regards,
Curt.-- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Projecthttp://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
  http://www.flightgear.orgUnique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OpenGL issue; what's the cause?

[Roberto Inzerillo]

> It just depends on the number of facets you used to model your aircraft. You
> already know that a model is made of triangles and quads and if it looks
> rounded, it's only because colors are interpolated between vertices, depending
> on normals. If you remove the 'smooth' attributes, you'll see that a quad is
> fully lit or fully shaded because its normal point toward the sun or not.
>
> -Fred
>   
Thanks Fred, I already know all that stuff about facets, normal 
smoothing and so on :-)
The question regards the possibility (or impossibility) of FlightGear 
(or the OpenGL interface) to proper render smoothed shadows. Those faces 
in the image are already normal-smoothed, hence pixel colors are 
interpolated between contiguous edges; you can clearly see how the grey 
color of the rounded surfaces is smooth shaded. But the shadows are not. 
Is this a FlightGear related issue or other graphic cards do smooth 
those shadows too?

Image http://www.laubfrosch.it/public/tmp/tie-005.jpg shows a rounded 
surface which is not normal-smoothed either. Look at the difference. 
That does pertain to surface colour interpolation only. My question 
instead is about the shadows.

  Roberto


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Douglas Campos]

IMHO, full threaded fgfs would be nice at 2.0beta release ;)


On 11/7/06, Curtis Olson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 11/7/06, Frederic Bouvier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > FGFS doesn't use threading much at that time. Only for the scenery loader
> and
> > metar. One can thing of putting the FDM or AI in other threads, or maybe
> even
> > divide the viewport into small areas that could be rendered in parallel. I
> > don't know if its doable, but for now, you will only see an improvement
> running
> > multiple programs in parallel. As you already see, Atlas or Terrasync can
> run on
> > their own core and not disturb FG.
>
>
> In FlightGear we intentionally minimize the use of threading to places where
> there is a huge need.
>
> Adding a thread significantly increases the complexity of the code and can
> hide a large variety of execution order and timing problems which can be
> incredibly difficult to debug and fix.
>
> If we are ever add additional threads, it will be only because we are forced
> to by clear and overwhelming performance considerations (and not for design
> or preference reasons.)
>
> Regards,
>
>  Curt.
> --
> Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project
> http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/
> http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/   http://www.flightgear.org
> Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
> -
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job
> easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
>
> ___
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>
>
>

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Release of fgfs-builder

[Douglas Campos]

another but, sorry for bothering :)

We need openal / alut from svn

i think that would be nice if we add it to build system

g++  -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT
-L/home/qmx/build/fgfs-builder-20061107/install/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib
-o openal_test1  openal_test1.o ../../simgear/debug/libsgdebug.a
-lopenal -lm
openal_test1.o: In function `main':
/home/qmx/build/fgfs-builder-20061107/src/SimGear/simgear/sound/openal_test1.cxx:120:
referência indefinida para `alutCreateBufferFromFile'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[7]: ** [openal_test1] Erro 1
make[7]: Saindo do diretório
`/home/qmx/build/fgfs-builder-20061107/build/SimGear/simgear/sound'
make[6]: ** [all-recursive] Erro 1
make[6]: Saindo do diretório
`/home/qmx/build/fgfs-builder-20061107/build/SimGear/simgear'
make[5]: ** [all] Erro 2
make[5]: Saindo do diretório
`/home/qmx/build/fgfs-builder-20061107/build/SimGear/simgear'
make[4]: ** [all-recursive] Erro 1
make[4]: Saindo do diretório
`/home/qmx/build/fgfs-builder-20061107/build/SimGear'

On 11/7/06, Ralf Gerlich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> and here we go: The first update. ;-)
>
> ftp://ftp.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Misc_rag/fgfs-builder-current.tar.gz
> (alias
> ftp://ftp.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Misc_rag/fgfs-builder-20061107-2.tar.gz)
>
> Fixes an issue with the automatic downloading and with OpenThreads
> dependencies in OpenProducer. Thanks to Douglas Campos for the bug report.
>
> Cheers,
> Ralf
>
> -
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> ___
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Frederic Bouvier]

Quoting Curtis Olson:

> On 11/7/06, Frederic Bouvier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > FGFS doesn't use threading much at that time. Only for the scenery loader
> > and
> > metar. One can thing of putting the FDM or AI in other threads, or maybe
> > even
> > divide the viewport into small areas that could be rendered in parallel. I
> > don't know if its doable, but for now, you will only see an improvement
> > running
> > multiple programs in parallel. As you already see, Atlas or Terrasync can
> > run on
> > their own core and not disturb FG.
>
>
>
> In FlightGear we intentionally minimize the use of threading to places where
> there is a huge need.
>
> Adding a thread significantly increases the complexity of the code and can
> hide a large variety of execution order and timing problems which can be
> incredibly difficult to debug and fix.
>
> If we are ever add additional threads, it will be only because we are forced
> to by clear and overwhelming performance considerations (and not for design
> or preference reasons.)

Ok, but you have to acknowledge that the trend is to multiply the number of
cores that are possibly less porwerful on their own. Look the frequencies : 2
years ago, you had one core clocked over 3Ghz, now 2 cores are clocked at about
2.4 / 2.6 Ghz, and both Intel and AMD are announcing/releasing Quad core these
days.

So, if we don't want FG not using more than 50% CPU, and perhaps not more than
25% further in time, we will have to go to that direction.

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Didier Fabert]

Le mardi 7 novembre 2006 15:24, Frederic Bouvier a écrit :
> Ok, but you have to acknowledge that the trend is to multiply the number of
> cores that are possibly less porwerful on their own. Look the frequencies :
> 2 years ago, you had one core clocked over 3Ghz, now 2 cores are clocked at
> about 2.4 / 2.6 Ghz, and both Intel and AMD are announcing/releasing Quad
> core these days.
>
> So, if we don't want FG not using more than 50% CPU, and perhaps not more
> than 25% further in time, we will have to go to that direction.
>
> -Fred

it's brand new that two-core processor are cheap. and quad-core is not for 
tomorrow (even they exists, they will be too expensive when they will be 
available). then it's not urgent. but it's the future.

i saw a pentium4 which have two years old, running at 3 GHz, but it was 
nitrogen liquid cooling :-)
-- 
Didier Fabert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
KFreeFlight project : A FlightGear GUI-Frontend designed for KDE users
http://kfreeflight.sourceforge.net

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Peter Gervais]

I've used the ACE programming framework to 
implement threaded applications in the past. There are considerable advantages 
to using such as a framework to do threading. As well, it also supports message 
queues which work very well with threads. It has all the paradigm required to 
support threading, locking etc ... 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Curtis 
  Olson 
  To: FlightGear developers 
  discussions 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 9:01 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and 
  multicore processor
  On 11/7/06, Frederic Bouvier 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  FGFS 
doesn't use threading much at that time. Only for the scenery loader 
andmetar. One can thing of putting the FDM or AI in other threads, or 
maybe evendivide the viewport into small areas that could be rendered in 
parallel. I don't know if its doable, but for now, you will only see an 
improvement runningmultiple programs in parallel. As you already see, 
Atlas or Terrasync can run ontheir own core and not disturb 
  FG.
  In FlightGear we intentionally minimize the use of threading to 
  places where there is a huge need.Adding a thread significantly 
  increases the complexity of the code and can hide a large variety of execution 
  order and timing problems which can be incredibly difficult to debug and fix. 
  If we are ever add additional threads, it will be only 
  because we are forced to by clear and overwhelming performance considerations 
  (and not for design or preference reasons.) 
  Regards,Curt.-- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota 
  - FlightGear Projecthttp://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ 
    http://www.flightgear.orgUnique text: 
  2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d 
  
  

  -Using 
  Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?Get 
  stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job 
  easierDownload IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache 
  Geronimohttp://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
  
  

  ___Flightgear-devel 
  mailing 
  listFlightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Frederic Bouvier]

Quoting Peter Gervais :

> I've used the ACE programming framework to implement threaded applications in
> the past. There are considerable advantages to using such as a framework to
> do threading. As well, it also supports message queues which work very well
> with threads. It has all the paradigm required to support threading, locking
> etc ...

Beware : ACE is bigger than FGFS. OpenSceneGraph comes already with its
threading library : OpenThreads, and FG already use threads with a simpler one
: pthreads. I don't think we need to jump on another tool. We should first
think about the architecture.

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Curtis Olson]

On 11/7/06, Frederic Bouvier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ok, but you have to acknowledge that the trend is to multiply the number ofcores that are possibly less porwerful on their own. Look the frequencies : 2years ago, you had one core clocked over 3Ghz, now 2 cores are clocked at about
2.4 / 2.6 Ghz, and both Intel and AMD are announcing/releasing Quad core thesedays.So, if we don't want FG not using more than 50% CPU, and perhaps not more than25% further in time, we will have to go to that direction.
I'm not saying we should not ever do threading in flightgear, indeed we have two sub threads along with the main program already.My only point is we shouldn't thread something that takes 
0.5% of the processor time of the main thread just because we think threads are cool.Threads impose a huge penalty in terms of complicating the code, hiding really subtle bugs, and maintaining threaded code over time just complicates this matter because new people come in and make changes when they don't fully understand all the subtle interrelationships (timing, functionality, etc) of the code.
So sure, we can add more threads, but there needs to be some really substantial justification for doing it, and if there isn't a significant performance based justification as part of that, then I will be very sceptical.
Regards,Curt.-- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Projecthttp://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/  
http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/  http://www.flightgear.orgUnique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Didier Fabert]

Le mardi 7 novembre 2006 16:39, Frederic Bouvier a écrit :
> Beware : ACE is bigger than FGFS. OpenSceneGraph comes already with its
> threading library : OpenThreads, and FG already use threads with a simpler
> one
>
> : pthreads. I don't think we need to jump on another tool. We should first
>
> think about the architecture.
>
> -Fred

don't forget:
- two years ago, we didn't sure that 64bits will be alive today.
- today we're not sure that multi-core are the future

the processor manufacturers explore many ways, it's not sure the multi-core is 
the future. perhaps, it exist just because of technology problem which can be 
solved after.

then we can thinking about but just thinking.
-- 
Didier Fabert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
KFreeFlight project : A FlightGear GUI-Frontend designed for KDE users
http://kfreeflight.sourceforge.net

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] Master thesis

[Tobias Nielsen]

Hi,

Within the next year im supposed to start up on writing a thesis in
Software engineering with focus on artificual intelligence. I wanna
start quite early in getting to know the area that im supposed to work
in so therefore im allready sending this quite early request to the
community.

But basicly my motivation (besides doing AI offcourse) is that i want
to learn a bit about developing systems under open source - it seems a
lot different than managing a normal software project which we have
been educated in.

Second i have a private pilot license (for some years now) and i have
always been rather facinated by the idea of "putting the plane in the
pc". but i often find that simulations have tried to implement air
trafic controls with varying results - this is something i would be
very happy to help with - if i can.

Right now im faced with a large codebase that i have no or little
insight in. So a smaller learning project that is maybe simple in
nature (and perhaps even unrealistic) but good at showing the
internals of the present AI system, would probally be good to start up
from - the project would only be for my own amusement and newer have
any relations with the releases. In that way i could be quite a bit
more prepared when im starting the actual thesis.

But i have no idea where to start such a small project and therefore i
ask for some guidence from the community.

Yours kindly
Tobias Nielsen

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Launcher source code location.

[Leidson Campos A. Ferreira]

Frederic Thanks again,After your help, all is compiling and running fine.The real reason to  compile this module (fgrun) is because the  my last implementation, enabling jpg-httpd option, doesn't work using the fgrun launcher because it put a wrong parameter name, jpg_httpd instead correct jpg-httpd, then the jpg-httpd implementation works only in command line mode.
I fixed this parameter option in fgrun module and I'm sending to you the complete fgfsrc.cxx file modified (in tar.gz compressed format).Now this option works in fgrun too, just clicking the jpg-httpd checkbox in advanced -> Network  configuration option.
LeidsonPlanetaMessenger.orgOn 11/6/06, Frederic Bouvier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Selon "Leidson Campos A. Ferreira" :> >> > If you write about fgrun, go to 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/fgrun> >> >> Yes, That right !>> You'll be able to get the latest development sources via SVN or download the
> > released tarball.> >>> I've downloaded the released tarball and now I'm trying to compile it, but> GCC compiler generate 3 unresolved linker errors. See below:>> 1)
> run_posix.o(.text+0x17d):/home/leidson/Downloads/FlightGear/fgrun-0.4.8> /fgrun-0.4.8/src/run_posix.cxx:87: undefined reference to `Fl::unlock()'>> 2)>/home/leidson/Downloads/FlightGear/fgrun-
0.4.8/fgrun-0.4.8/src/run_posix.cxx:87:> undefined reference to `Fl::unlock()'You need to configure and compile fltk with --enable-threads :
http://fgrun.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/*checkout*/fgrun/trunk/fgrun/README?revision=350-Fred--Frédéric Bouvierhttp://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo galleryhttp://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer
-Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimohttp://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___Flightgear-devel mailing listFlightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


fgfsrc.cxx.tar.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] Linking 'fgfs' on FreeBSD

[Martin Spott]

I had to make the following change in order to get the 'fgfs' binary
linked on FreeBSD. 'libosgSim' apparently references some functions
like "osgText::readFontFile" which areimplemented in 'libosgText' - so
put the latter into the linker command as well:

--- src/Main/Makefile.am~   Tue Nov  7 18:53:34 2006
+++ src/Main/Makefile.amTue Nov  7 18:53:34 2006
@@ -99,7 +99,7 @@
-lsgstructure -lsgenvironment \
-lplibpuaux -lplibpu -lplibfnt -lplibjs -lplibnet \
-lplibsg -lplibul \
-   -losgUtil -losgDB -losgSim -losg -lOpenThreads \
+   -losgUtil -losgDB -losgSim -losgText -losg -lOpenThreads \
$(THREAD_LIBS) \
$(network_LIBS) \
-lz \


Martin.
-- 
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linking 'fgfs' on FreeBSD

[Andy Ross]

Martin Spott wrote:
 > I had to make the following change in order to get the 'fgfs' binary
 > linked on FreeBSD. 'libosgSim' apparently references some functions
 > like "osgText::readFontFile" which areimplemented in 'libosgText'

Which begs the question: why on earth does OSG insist on installing
twelve (12!) distinct, inter-dependent shared libraries instead of
just one?  That's a huge waste of runtime linker cycles, and a big
pain for developers.

Andy



-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linking 'fgfs' on FreeBSD

[Martin Spott]

Martin Spott wrote:
> I had to make the following change in order to get the 'fgfs' binary
> linked on FreeBSD. 'libosgSim' apparently references some functions
> like "osgText::readFontFile" which areimplemented in 'libosgText' - so
> put the latter into the linker command as well:

Did I tell you that FlightGear-OSG works on FreeBSD ? It does  :-)
BTW, I noticed some debug messages on the console that are totally new
to me, like these ones:

raw->sizeX = 32
raw->sizeY = 32
raw->sizeZ = 3
raw->bpc = 1


Do they stem from some OSG routines or are they unrelated ?

Martin.
-- 
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linking 'fgfs' on FreeBSD

[Martin Spott]

Andy Ross wrote:
> Martin Spott wrote:
>  > I had to make the following change in order to get the 'fgfs' binary
>  > linked on FreeBSD. 'libosgSim' apparently references some functions
>  > like "osgText::readFontFile" which areimplemented in 'libosgText'

> Which begs the question: why on earth does OSG insist on installing
> twelve (12!) distinct, inter-dependent shared libraries instead of
> just one?  That's a huge waste of runtime linker cycles, and a big
> pain for developers.

I guess the intention is to allow developers to link only the libraries
whose functions they actually call. Think of some application that
needs - just as a stupid example - only functions from libosgText but
none from libosgSim ?

Cheers,
Martin.
-- 
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Airport - facilities

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:14:03 +0100, Darko wrote in message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I dont know. Do you have an example xml?

..I stretched "halfbaked" waaay to far, no, and no, I don't know xml.  

..maybe slap it and all other text on as a billboard?  I saw a recent
discussion on airliner liveries here, mentioning setting text such as
airplane registration at runtime.  

> Where do you put this "  height 2000 mm, font width 500mm, font depth -200mm, text sr_YU:
> AERODROM BEOGRAD +logo +en_GB: BELGRADE AIRPORT> "?

..the xml would go with your model so it can be picked by FG's property
machinery, and I've been away from this much too long to tell you how
I feel it should be done, but my idea is make use of fonts and text to
generate the "AERODROM BEOGRAD+logo+BELGRADE AIRPORT" text 
and slap it onto your terminal model, rather than have you and everyone
else draw any and all letters in Blender or another 3D CAD modeller,
makes it easier to reuse models. (Can Gimp do 3D fonts???)

> Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 16:53:41 +0100, Darko wrote in message 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >   
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I've started to add airport facilities on some airports. I've
> >finished > almost everything but the airport name
> >>
> >(http://www.airport-belgrade.co.yu/upload/images/galerije/eksterijer/
> velike/t2zgrukoso.JPG,
> >>
> >http://www.airport-belgrade.co.yu/upload/images/galerije/eksterijer/
> >velike/Aerodrom%20Beograd.jpg) > This name is 3d text which is able
> >to beacon at the night. I was > thinking to create each letter in
> >separate *.ac file, > 
> >
> > ..delurking;  Shouldn't these letters be generated from fonts in 3D
> > space, say with  > 2000 mm, font width 500mm, font depth -200mm, text sr_YU: AERODROM
> > BEOGRAD +logo +en_GB: BELGRADE AIRPORT> or some such, but more xml
> > than my halfbaked attempt?
> >

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] SimGear compile error: glXGetProcAddress((const

[Durk Talsma]

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 08:57, Martin Spott wrote:
> Mhhh, could you make sure your CVS tree is up to date and clean ? I did
> a build from yesterday evening's CVS on Linux with GCC-3.4 (Debian
> Sarge on AMD64; GCC-3.3 throws an ICE with current PLIB SVN) plus one
> this morning after Mathias' recent updates (rebuilding FlightGear on a
> dual-Opteron is not that much an issue ;-)  - and in both cases I get a
> working binary.
>

Hi Martin,

Looks like the problem is gone: I did another CVS up, and now everything's 
fine.

On to FlightGear compilation. :-)

Cheers,
Durk

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] XML Property synonym mechanism?

[leee]

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 08:57, Erik Hofman wrote:
> Rémi Lafage wrote:
> > Thus I would like to specify the
> > /instrumentation/attitude-indicator/indicated-roll-deg property
> > to be a synonym of the /orientation/roll-deg property.
>
> This can be done using aliases:
> 
>   
>
>
>
>   
> 
>
> Erik

That's interesting - is it possible to re-define it while FG is running?

LeeE


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linking 'fgfs' on FreeBSD

[Andy Ross]

Martin Spott wrote:
 > I guess the intention is to allow developers to link only the libraries
 > whose functions they actually call. Think of some application that
 > needs - just as a stupid example - only functions from libosgText but
 > none from libosgSim ?

What would be the benefit of that if libosgText requires libosgSim
anyway?  It's just dumb, no one else does it, and it implies to me
that the OSG developers don't know much about how to write shared
libraries.

Andy

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linking 'fgfs' on FreeBSD

[Andy Ross]

Martin Spott wrote:
 > Think of some application that needs - just as a stupid example -
 > only functions from libosgText but none from libosgSim ?

Actually, here's a better explanation: let's call that application
"FlightGear" and say that it requires functions from osgUtil, osgSim
and osgDB, but not osgText.  It should be able to link successfully
without referencing osgText, right?

Except that, as you discovered, it doesn't.  That OSG insists on
shipping C++ shared libraries is dumb enough.  That they broke it down
into 12 inter-dependent parts is just ridiculous.

Andy

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Release of fgfs-builder

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:19:52 -0200, Douglas wrote in message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
 
> On 11/7/06, Ralf Gerlich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > and here we go: The first update. ;-)
> >
> > ftp://ftp.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Misc_rag/fgfs-builder-current.tar.gz
> > (alias
> > ftp://ftp.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Misc_rag/fgfs-builder-20061107-2.tar.gz)
> >
> > Fixes an issue with the automatic downloading and with OpenThreads
> > dependencies in OpenProducer. Thanks to Douglas Campos for the bug
> > report.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ralf
> 
> another but, sorry for bothering :)
> 
> We need openal / alut from svn
> 
> i think that would be nice if we add it to build system


..I agree all deps should be part of the build system, but we 
should not build all deps in the build system, especially when 
we start building backport binaries for Debian, Red Hat, Fedora etc.


..can I build both plib-FG and osg-FG etc outta the same trees, 
or will I need to set up separate plib-SG 'n plib-FG etc trees, to 
benchmark the plib FG against the osg FG?


..excellent clean-up job, Ralf  :o)  
exept you forgot my brlcad patch.  ;o)


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Durk Talsma]

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 16:50, Curtis Olson wrote:
> Threads impose a huge penalty in terms of complicating the code, hiding
> really subtle bugs, and maintaining threaded code over time just
> complicates this matter because new people come in and make changes when
> they don't fully understand all the subtle interrelationships (timing,
> functionality, etc) of the code.
>
> So sure, we can add more threads, but there needs to be some really
> substantial justification for doing it, and if there isn't a significant
> performance based justification as part of that, then I will be very
> sceptical.
>

With the advent of multicore CPU's I have actually been considering the 
possibilities of moving parts of the AI code to a separate thread. The 
problem with AI isn't so much that it uses huge amounts of CPU time, but that 
it needs it (at least in the current implementation) in spikes. Currently 
this results in quite considerable pauses (which can actually last up to a 
few seconds, or more). The two main offenders are:
- AI model loading, due to disk access.
- The AI network route tracing algorithm, which just needs to do a lot of 
searching. 

It would possibly be possible to keep the trace algorithm in a single thread. 
By limiting the number of computations per frame,  but I don't really see a 
clean way to implement that right away (especially not for the trace 
algorithm.

Cheers,
Durk

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Release of fgfs-builder

[Douglas Campos]

to all that interests
preliminary and very ugly patches to build openal and alut from svn

I'm sure that this autoconf hack is specific for ubuntu edgy (and yes,
it is ugly)

can someone help-me with dependencies patch?

apply all patches with -p1


On 11/7/06, Arnt Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:19:52 -0200, Douglas wrote in message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On 11/7/06, Ralf Gerlich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > and here we go: The first update. ;-)
> >
> > ftp://ftp.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Misc_rag/fgfs-builder-current.tar.gz
> > (alias
> > 
ftp://ftp.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/Misc_rag/fgfs-builder-20061107-2.tar.gz)
> >
> > Fixes an issue with the automatic downloading and with OpenThreads
> > dependencies in OpenProducer. Thanks to Douglas Campos for the bug
> > report.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ralf
>
> another but, sorry for bothering :)
>
> We need openal / alut from svn
>
> i think that would be nice if we add it to build system


..I agree all deps should be part of the build system, but we
should not build all deps in the build system, especially when
we start building backport binaries for Debian, Red Hat, Fedora etc.


..can I build both plib-FG and osg-FG etc outta the same trees,
or will I need to set up separate plib-SG 'n plib-FG etc trees, to
benchmark the plib FG against the osg FG?


..excellent clean-up job, Ralf  :o)
exept you forgot my brlcad patch.  ;o)


--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel



product-alut.patch
Description: Binary data


product-openal.patch
Description: Binary data


ubuntu-autoconf-hack.patch
Description: Binary data


dependencies.patch
Description: Binary data
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linking 'fgfs' on FreeBSD

[Norman Vine]

Andy Ross writes:
> 
> Martin Spott wrote:
>  > Think of some application that needs - just as a stupid 
> example -  > only functions from libosgText but none from libosgSim ?
> 
> Actually, here's a better explanation: let's call that 
> application "FlightGear" and say that it requires functions 
> from osgUtil, osgSim and osgDB, but not osgText.  It should 
> be able to link successfully without referencing osgText, right?

Except that you don't need osgSim if you are just using osgText

Now as to why ScalarBar is part of osgSim is perhaps a better question :-)

Cheers

Norman


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[leee]

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 15:39, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
> Quoting Peter Gervais :
> > I've used the ACE programming framework to implement threaded
> > applications in the past. There are considerable advantages to using such
> > as a framework to do threading. As well, it also supports message queues
> > which work very well with threads. It has all the paradigm required to
> > support threading, locking etc ...
>
> Beware : ACE is bigger than FGFS. OpenSceneGraph comes already with its
> threading library : OpenThreads, and FG already use threads with a simpler
> one
>
> : pthreads. I don't think we need to jump on another tool. We should first
>
> think about the architecture.
>
> -Fred
>
> --
> Frédéric Bouvier
> http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
> http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
> http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

In the long term I believe that FG will need to become capable of exploiting 
MPP systems and in this respect I am not just thinking in terms of a few 
multiple cores on simple smp systems but also of loosely coupled clusters, or 
even just networks of hetrogenous systems.

Simply making FG more 'threaded' wouldn't adress this and instead FG itself 
would need to be broken down into a number of discrete inter-communicating 
applications that could be run either on a single host system or across many.

As Fred says, we need to think about the architecture but at the same time we 
also need to consider how much data we need to shift about and how much 
bandwidth is likely to be available to ensure that the architecture is 
viable.

It sounds like an impossible task but in some respects we already have some 
parts of FG working this way e.g. terrasynch and Atlas.  I'd guess that some 
parts of FG could probably split out with very little trouble but there will 
be other functions that would need a lot of thought and work to be able to 
operate asynchronously.

I suspect that the graphics will prove to be the trickiest problem - it's by 
far the greatest resource user - but I wonder if we haven't already solved 
some of the problems in the multi-screen stuff, which is similar in some 
respects to box-rendering.  I dunno how much time is required for assembling 
and ordering the objects to be rendered compared with the final rendering of 
the entire scene - this would be pretty crucial.

...just stuff I've been thinking about for quite a while.

LeeE


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Curtis Olson]

On 11/7/06, leee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I suspect that the graphics will prove to be the trickiest problem - it's byfar the greatest resource user - Right, in all this we need to remember that in all our past benchmarking, the graphics themselves account for 90-95% of the workload.  OSG provides some opportunities to thread the graphics rendering itself, but beyond that, the remaining 5-10% of computational effort is pretty small in comparison.  Further dividing that up into additional threads may not be such a huge win, unless as Durk says there are tasks that are "bursty" like metar fetching which has to block on network IO ... that makes a lot of sense to put into a separate thread, but does anyone realize the pain we wen through to debug that simple task?  And then does anyone recall that a subsequent patch broke it all again and we had to wind all the way through the process and figure it all out again.  Lot's of pain was endured by at least a couple developers to make that work.
So yes, threading does indeed make sense in certain specific contexts, but we need to be really careful about what we do, exactly why we do, and what specific peformance benefits we *know* we will get by threading some new task.
Curt.-- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Projecthttp://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/  
http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/  http://www.flightgear.orgUnique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] What does control gear/gear[0]/position-norm property in A-10?

[Roberto Inzerillo]

Hi,
 I'm new to aircraft model animating, I'm trying to understand what does 
control the gear/gear[0]/position-norm property in the A-10 aircraft ... 
I really don't get it :-(Any help?

I'm in the process of learning how to make parts of the aircraft move 
under certain circumstances. By now I'm reading the .xml files regarding 
the landing gears movement, so I came to that position-norm property 
which seems to control the rotate animation.

   Roberto

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Release of fgfs-builder

[Ralf Gerlich]

Hi,

Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> ..I agree all deps should be part of the build system, but we 
> should not build all deps in the build system, especially when 
> we start building backport binaries for Debian, Red Hat, Fedora etc.

As I say in the README.txt, I included all packages which cannot be
typically expected to be available in a distribution or as applicable
binaries or need additional patches. However, I already made an
exception by including OpenProducer and OpenThreads.

> ..can I build both plib-FG and osg-FG etc outta the same trees, 
> or will I need to set up separate plib-SG 'n plib-FG etc trees, to 
> benchmark the plib FG against the osg FG?

Currently the builder builds only the OSG-version, but I intend to
provide products for the plib-version. These should be usable in the
same sourcetree.

> ..excellent clean-up job, Ralf  :o)  

Thanx! :-)

> exept you forgot my brlcad patch.  ;o)

I know. I just wanted to get this out ASAP as I'll be away a few days
from now on without net connectivity and it already took to long
counting from the day where Mathias released the OSG updates. ;-)

I'll be back on Friday.

Cheers,
Ralf

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Release of fgfs-builder

[Ralf Gerlich]

Hi,

Douglas Campos wrote:
> to all that interests
> preliminary and very ugly patches to build openal and alut from svn

Looks good.

> I'm sure that this autoconf hack is specific for ubuntu edgy (and yes,
> it is ugly)

What exactly does autoupdate do on ubuntu? Is it an alternative for
autogen.sh and autoreconf? I'd say that the autogen.sh - if provided -
should get precedence over any other regeneration mechanism.

> can someone help-me with dependencies patch?

Doesn't look as if you need any help there. Looks good as well.

Thanks for sending these.

Cheers,
Ralf

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Norman Vine]

Curtis Olson writes:
> 
> Right, in all this we need to remember that in all our past 
> benchmarking, the graphics themselves account for 90-95% of 
> the workload.  

I haven't profiled FGFS in a long time  however I guess that 
is true if you consider ground intersection and database 
paging part of the GFX code

Cheers

Norman


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] XML Property synonym mechanism?

[Erik Hofman]

leee wrote:
> On Tuesday 07 November 2006 08:57, Erik Hofman wrote:
>> This can be done using aliases:
>> 
>>   
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>> 
> 
> That's interesting - is it possible to re-define it while FG is running?

I'm afraid not.

Erik

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] pc7 panel patch

[Stuart Buchanan]

Hi All,

Panel update for the pc7, making it match some photos of pc7 panels I
found in the web. Now has radios, VOR etc, making it quite fun as a fast
single-engined IFR trainer, provided your joystick is up to it!

-Stuart

Index: pc7-panel.xml
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/pc7/Panels/pc7-panel.xml,v
retrieving revision 1.1
diff -u -r1.1 pc7-panel.xml
--- pc7-panel.xml   29 Apr 2004 19:47:56 -  1.1
+++ pc7-panel.xml   7 Nov 2006 20:28:12 -
@@ -17,6 +17,67 @@

  

+  
+   Turn and Bank
+   200
+   80
+   90
+   90
+  
+
+  
+   Backup AI
+   300
+   150
+   75
+   75
+  
+
+  
+   NAV2 VOR
+
+ /instrumentation/nav[1]/to-flag
+ /instrumentation/nav[1]/from-flag
+
/instrumentation/nav[1]/radials/selected-deg
+
/instrumentation/nav[1]/gs-needle-deflection
+
/instrumentation/nav[1]/heading-needle-defl
ection
+ 
/sim/instrument-options/nav[1]/has-gs-needle
+ 
/sim/instrument-options/nav[1]/needles-pivot
+
+   300
+   60
+   75
+   75
+  
+
+  
+   NavCom 2 Radio
+   
+   
/instrumentation/comm[1]/frequencies/selected-mhz<
/comm-freq-selected-prop>
+   
/instrumentation/comm[1]/frequencies/standby-mhz
+   
/instrumentation/nav[1]/frequencies/selected-mhz
+   
/instrumentation/nav[1]/frequencies/standby-mhz
+   
/instrumentation/nav[1]/volume
+   
/instrumentation/nav[1]/ident
+   
+   300
+   -165
+  
+
+  
+   Radio1
+   300
+   -100
+  
+
+  
+   Airspeed Indicator
+   389
+   55
+   90
+   90
+  
+
   
Airspeed Indicator
389
@@ -24,7 +85,20 @@
90
90
   
+
+  
+   Marker Beacon Indicator
+   389
+   260
+  

+
+  
+   DME
+   502
+   -100
+  
+
   
Horizontal Situation Indicator
502
@@ -59,31 +133,31 @@

   
Engine 1 %RPM
-   684
+   700
175
-   51
-   51
+   65
+   65
   

   
Engine 1 EGT
-   684
-   126
-   51
-   51
+   700
+   100
+   65
+   65
   

   
Engine 1 Fuel Flow
-   684
+   700
28
-   51
-   51
+   65
+   65
   

   
G Indicator
-   790
+   770
146
55
55
@@ -91,26 +165,26 @@

   
Engine 1 Oil Pressure
-   788
+   770
77
-   51
-   51
+   65
+   65
   

   
Fuel Tank 0 Quantity
-   788
-   28
-   51
-   51
+   770
+   0
+   65
+   65
   

   
Fuel Tank 1 Quantity
840
-   28
-   51
-   51
+   0
+   65
+   65
   
 

Re: [Flightgear-devel] pc7 panel patch

[Stuart Buchanan]

--- Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Panel update for the pc7, making it match some photos of pc7 panels I
> found in the web. Now has radios, VOR etc, making it quite fun as a fast
> single-engined IFR trainer, provided your joystick is up to it!
> 
> -Stuart


... and as my mail client has wrapped the lines badly, the patch is also
available from

http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/panel.patch

-Stuart



Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Release of fgfs-builder

[Douglas Campos]

last minute patch

Fixes building of Simgear with installed libalut

thanx to pigeon (#flightgear) for pointing it out

On 11/7/06, Ralf Gerlich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi,

Douglas Campos wrote:
> to all that interests
> preliminary and very ugly patches to build openal and alut from svn

Looks good.

> I'm sure that this autoconf hack is specific for ubuntu edgy (and yes,
> it is ugly)

What exactly does autoupdate do on ubuntu? Is it an alternative for
autogen.sh and autoreconf? I'd say that the autogen.sh - if provided -
should get precedence over any other regeneration mechanism.

> can someone help-me with dependencies patch?

Doesn't look as if you need any help there. Looks good as well.

Thanks for sending these.

Cheers,
Ralf

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel



SimGear-lalut-patch.patch
Description: Binary data
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] What does control gear/gear[0]/position-norm property in A-10?

[alexis bory]

Roberto Inzerillo a écrit :
>  Hi, I'm new to aircraft model animating, I'm trying to understand
>  what does control the gear/gear[0]/position-norm property in the A-10
>  aircraft ... I really don't get it :-(Any help?

It's the position of the nose strut: 0=close 1=open

>  I'm in the process of learning how to make parts of the aircraft move
>  under certain circumstances. By now I'm reading the .xml files
>  regarding the landing gears movement, so I came to that position-norm
>  property which seems to control the rotate animation.

Yes and no, controls.gearToggle() (/Nasal/controls.nas) does control the 
property.
The objects animations are based on this property value.

The gear doors, and the gear level are also animated upon this property.

good luck Roberto :)



-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] pc7 panel patch

[Frederic Bouvier]

Selon Stuart Buchanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>
> --- Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Panel update for the pc7, making it match some photos of pc7 panels I
> > found in the web. Now has radios, VOR etc, making it quite fun as a fast
> > single-engined IFR trainer, provided your joystick is up to it!
> >
> > -Stuart
> 
>
> ... and as my mail client has wrapped the lines badly, the patch is also
> available from
>
> http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/panel.patch

It's in CVS now ( both branches )

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] MSVC Linking trouble

[Olaf Flebbe]

Hi,

> 
> It now works and I got a much better performance than with the version
> compiled with Cygwin. Starting time has shortened significantly and
> Framerates are much higher (Cygwin 11-20fps, MSVC 30-50fps).
> 
> Thank you for your help.

Thanks for your report. Do you have a suggestions on how to improve the 
instructions?

Olaf



-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Olaf Flebbe]

Norman Vine schrieb:
> Curtis Olson writes:
>> Right, in all this we need to remember that in all our past 
>> benchmarking, the graphics themselves account for 90-95% of 
>> the workload.  
> 
> I haven't profiled FGFS in a long time  however I guess that 
> is true if you consider ground intersection and database 
> paging part of the GFX code

I just did a profile. OpenGL related stuff is about 20%, groundcache 
about 60%.

Olaf

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] shortlist of non-segfaulting aircrafts

[alexis bory]

Martin Spott a écrit :
>  alexis bory wrote:
>  CVS version will segfault with many aicraft due to the switch to
> > Would you mind creating a short list of aircraft that you know to
> > be 'compatible' ?

Not that short, we would better count the non-compatible ones.

Segfaulting aircrafts at FGFS startup: A-10 (latest home version),
b1900d, Concorde,  OV10_CDF,  OV10_NASA, SenecaII-jsbsim. (F4U
allready fixed, OV10_USAFE is OK)

See the complete list at:

http://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/index.php?title=List_of_%27compatible%27_aircrafts#List_of_.27compatible.27_aicrafts

Note: I didn't focused on glitchs like transparency issues or engine
start malfunctions.

Alexis

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] What does control gear/gear[0]/position-norm property in A-10?

[Andy Ross]

 > I'm new to aircraft model animating, I'm trying to understand what does
 > control the gear/gear[0]/position-norm property in the A-10 aircraft ...

This is a property output from the YASim FDM.  In the A-10-yasim.xml
file you will find the following line in the nose gear tag:

   

This instructs YASim to place the result/output value of the "EXTEND"
axis of the gear object (not the same as the axis input -- it can be
scaled or offset, and interpolated through a transition-time period)
into the specified proprty.

Andy

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Simgear-cvslogs] CVS: SimGear/simgear/math SGQuat.hxx, 1.11, 1.12

[Olaf Flebbe]

Frederic,

However "compiler.h" isn't included into SGQuat.hxx, so I didn't 
realized that you had a patch in "compiler.h".

I am not to sure which headers should be included. So I prefered a local 
patch, here. Please feel free to fix it properly.

Olaf


... left out  fix for copysign for Microsoft Compiler
> 
> This is redundant with a fix I already put in compiler.h
> 

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG Issues

[Olaf Flebbe]

Hi,

> Time to go to bed, I did test something like 30 aircrafts... there is 
> still 50 to be tested !
> http://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/index.php?title=List_of_%27compatible%27_aircrafts#List_of_.27compatible.27_aicrafts
> the longuest is writing the result in the wiki...

Thanks for this huge testing effort! Mathias gave me a prerelease of a 
new AC3D loader. That fixed all the aircrafts which SEGFAULTED before, 
but not the OV10-CDF.

The OV10-CDF gave me a stack overrun both on plib and OSG. (While 
reading the gps instrument). This aircraft problem seems not related to OSG.

Olaf



-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Olaf Flebbe]

Hi,

> 
> a reason to use OSG is a perf improvement with SMP. but i see nothing about 
> it 
> here.
> my processor (amd 4200 double core) occupation is always 50-55%. perhaps is 
> it 
> not done yet? 

No, it is not possible at this time.

Olaf

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Frederic Bouvier]

Selon Olaf Flebbe :

> Norman Vine schrieb:
> > Curtis Olson writes:
> >> Right, in all this we need to remember that in all our past
> >> benchmarking, the graphics themselves account for 90-95% of
> >> the workload.
> >
> > I haven't profiled FGFS in a long time  however I guess that
> > is true if you consider ground intersection and database
> > paging part of the GFX code
>
> I just did a profile. OpenGL related stuff is about 20%, groundcache
> about 60%.

How are you profiling ?

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Olaf Flebbe]

Hi,

> How are you profiling ?

I had a Intel VTune eval license in the past.

Olaf

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

[Flightgear-devel] shortlist of non-segfaulting aircrafts

[alexis bory]

Martin Spott a écrit :
>  alexis bory wrote:
> > CVS version will segfault with many aicraft due to the switch to
>  Would you mind creating a short list of aircraft that you know to be
>  'compatible' ?

Not that short, we would better count the non-compatible ones.

Segfaulting aircrafts at FGFS startup:
A-10 (latest home version), b1900d, Concorde,  OV10_CDF,  OV10_NASA, 
SenecaII-jsbsim.
(F4U allready fixed, OV10_USAFE is OK)

see the complete list at:
http://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/index.php?title=List_of_%27compatible%27_aircrafts#List_of_.27compatible.27_aicrafts

Note: I didn't focused on glitchs like transparency issues or engine 
start malfunctions.

Alexis

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Simgear-cvslogs] CVS: SimGear/simgear/math SGQuat.hxx, 1.11, 1.12

[Frederic Bouvier]

Selon Olaf Flebbe :

> Frederic,
>
> However "compiler.h" isn't included into SGQuat.hxx, so I didn't
> realized that you had a patch in "compiler.h".
>
> I am not to sure which headers should be included. So I prefered a local
> patch, here. Please feel free to fix it properly.
>
> Olaf
>
>
> ... left out  fix for copysign for Microsoft Compiler
> >
> > This is redundant with a fix I already put in compiler.h
> >

For me, including the define in compiler.h was all that was needed. I don't see
a problem without it in SGQuat.hxx. We are compiling the same files, aren't we
?

If it is a problem for you, please post the error. I would like to understand
the issue.

Thanks,

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG Issues

[Olaf Flebbe]

Hi,


>>From some other source I figured it might make sense to attach the
> graphic card manufacturer (and maybe the driver version) to the problem
> report. Olaf, does this count here too ?

The runway light flickers at the edge of the screen seem to be an ATI 
driver feature (both on Linux and Windows), since they are not visible 
on nVidia.

It may be a good idea to attach config (GPU, OS, driver version or 
something like that). Since we may focus more on core dumps this may be 
postponed a bit.

Olaf

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Simgear-cvslogs] CVS: SimGear/simgear/math SGQuat.hxx, 1.11, 1.12

[Frederic Bouvier]

Selon Frederic Bouvier :

> Selon Olaf Flebbe :
>
> > Frederic,
> >
> > However "compiler.h" isn't included into SGQuat.hxx, so I didn't
> > realized that you had a patch in "compiler.h".
> >
> > I am not to sure which headers should be included. So I prefered a local
> > patch, here. Please feel free to fix it properly.
> >
> > Olaf
> >
> >
> > ... left out  fix for copysign for Microsoft Compiler
> > >
> > > This is redundant with a fix I already put in compiler.h
> > >
>
> For me, including the define in compiler.h was all that was needed. I don't
> see
> a problem without it in SGQuat.hxx. We are compiling the same files, aren't
> we
> ?
>
> If it is a problem for you, please post the error. I would like to understand
> the issue.

Ok, maybe we are out of sync in this discussion. I already removed the copysign
definition in favor of a more centralized place: compiler.h that already has
definitions for isnan and vsnprintf. Tell me if it still work for you

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Simgear-cvslogs] CVS: SimGear/simgear/math SGQuat.hxx, 1.11, 1.12

[Olaf Flebbe]

Fred,


> If it is a problem for you, please post the error. I would like to understand
> the issue.

I doublechecked and looked at the CVS history, time stamps of emails...

I created a patch and forgot to send them immediatly to Mathias to be 
included into the release. In the meantime you fixed it at a different 
place in source. I did an update, everything worked o.k. so I asked 
Mathias to commit the diff.

I did a recompile, the _copysign is not needed any more in SGQuat.hxx. 
Please feel free to remove.

Olaf

BTW: Do you have an OSG build running?

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Antonov AN-2 ready for download

[Maik Justus]

Hi Yurik,

the plane looks really great, seems to be much time in this bird.
But I have a problem. I am not able to start the engine. I put on 
electric main-switch, magnetos to 1+2, fuel up, starter switch on, other 
starter switch short to the left and then to right (I hold it on the 
right), the propeller turns some seconds and then: silence...
Any one else with this problem?

And I found a minor bug. The help (engine start, space bar) only works 
on 1024x768.

But a big thank you for this plane. I hope I can fly it tomorrow.

Maik

AJ MacLeod schrieb:
> Hi Yurik,
>
> Thank you very much for making this available under the GPL for flightgear.  
> It's a very nice model, with some innovative touches.
>
> The instrument textures are great... they'd look even better on 3d 
> instruments ;-)
> ...
> I hope that one of our "data" committers will add this to CVS soon, it'll be 
> a 
> fantastic addition to the hangar.
>   
> ...
> Cheers,
>
> AJ
>
>   


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Lou Sanchez-Chopitea]

Hi,
Curtis Olson wrote:

> On 11/7/06, *leee* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> I suspect that the graphics will prove to be the trickiest problem
> - it's by
> far the greatest resource user - 
>
>
>
> Right, in all this we need to remember that in all our past 
> benchmarking, the graphics themselves account for 90-95% of the 
> workload.  OSG provides some opportunities to thread the graphics 
> rendering itself, but beyond that, the remaining 5-10% of 
> computational effort is pretty small in comparison.  Further dividing 
> that up into additional threads may not be such a huge win, unless as 
> Durk says there are tasks that are "bursty" like metar fetching which 
> has to block on network IO ... that makes a lot of sense to put into a 
> separate thread, but does anyone realize the pain we wen through to 
> debug that simple task?  And then does anyone recall that a subsequent 
> patch broke it all again and we had to wind all the way through the 
> process and figure it all out again.  Lot's of pain was endured by at 
> least a couple developers to make that work.

That's OK, I foresee (and am currently feeling) more pain, since FG 
won't run on my system (dual Athlon system running Core 5). Hasn't ever 
worked even in Plib days. Working on the FG threading is something that 
interests me since I am looking at such things at work right now.

> So yes, threading does indeed make sense in certain specific contexts, 
> but we need to be really careful about what we do, exactly why we do, 
> and what specific peformance benefits we *know* we will get by 
> threading some new task.
>
> Curt.
> -- 
> Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project
> http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ 
>    
> http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/  http://www.flightgear.org
> Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
>
>
>
>-
>Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
>Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
>Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
>http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
>
>
>
>___
>Flightgear-devel mailing list
>Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>  
>
Cheers

Lou



-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] shortlist of non-segfaulting aircrafts

[Frederic Bouvier]

OV10_CDF and OV10_NASA are now fixed. The issue had nothing to do with the OSG
port. Only a file name conflict because 2 files in the same directory had names
only differentiated by case. This is not good for windows that ignore case in
file names and one file was took for the other, creating an infinite loop in
xml inclusion.

-Fred


Selon alexis bory :

> Martin Spott a écrit :
> >  alexis bory wrote:
> > > CVS version will segfault with many aicraft due to the switch to
> >  Would you mind creating a short list of aircraft that you know to be
> >  'compatible' ?
>
> Not that short, we would better count the non-compatible ones.
>
> Segfaulting aircrafts at FGFS startup:
> A-10 (latest home version), b1900d, Concorde,  OV10_CDF,  OV10_NASA,
> SenecaII-jsbsim.
> (F4U allready fixed, OV10_USAFE is OK)
>
> see the complete list at:
>
http://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/index.php?title=List_of_%27compatible%27_aircrafts#List_of_.27compatible.27_aicrafts
>
> Note: I didn't focused on glitchs like transparency issues or engine
> start malfunctions.
>
> Alexis
>
> -
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> ___
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>


--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr  Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Antonov AN-2 ready for download

[Didier Fabert]

Le mardi 7 novembre 2006 23:38, Maik Justus a écrit :
> Hi Yurik,
>
> the plane looks really great, seems to be much time in this bird.
> But I have a problem. I am not able to start the engine. I put on
> electric main-switch, magnetos to 1+2, fuel up, starter switch on, other
> starter switch short to the left and then to right (I hold it on the
> right), the propeller turns some seconds and then: silence...
> Any one else with this problem?

same thing here, perhaps an explaination with some screenshots can help us.

aircraft engine looks like my engine car : ignition problem :-)
-- 
Didier Fabert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
KFreeFlight project : A FlightGear GUI-Frontend designed for KDE users
http://kfreeflight.sourceforge.net

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Release of fgfs-builder

[Pigeon]

> last minute patch
> Fixes building of Simgear with installed libalut
> thanx to pigeon (#flightgear) for pointing it out

I also want to make a note here to point out that I've got this
issue before, which is when you build SG it fails when building all the
SG test programs, and the cause is it's not linking with -lalut. But
then at some point I do not have this issue anymore.

My feeling is either there's some autotools weirdness, or somehow
libopenal should depend on libalut but it's not when it was built, etc.
Never got around to look into this deeply cause we're all
lazy^H^H^H^Hbusy :)

Thanks.


Pigeon.


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] patch for groundcache.cxx problem

[Georg Vollnhals]

Mathias Fröhlich schrieb:
> Hi Tim,
>
> On Monday 06 November 2006 10:59, Tim Moore wrote:
>   
>> I was seeing the problem of falling through the earth in w070n40.
>> With this patch I can run successfully starting with --airport=kpqi.
>> 
> That is applied.
> That area needs to be overhauled anyway, but until than this problem is fixed!
> Thanks!
>
>Greetings
>
> Mathias
>
>   
I want to confirm that with this patch the "stuck in earth" (or black
window) problem has gone. All "faulty" airports are now working the
right way. I added a little note in the wiki.
Regards
Georg EDDW

BTW: I made some very long flights this evening/night in the northern
area of Germany with different aircraft and the OSG version run very
stable over longer times even crossing some areas where I have placed
some more ground objects. Nice!

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG Performance on WIndows

[Andy Ross]

 > I would like to restrict that a bit.  For bugfixes and non
 > developers this might be a good idea. But please do not develop
 > new features on the branch. I know how many problems this will
 > give.  And to be honest, Olaf I believe You know what I am
 > talking about ...

No offense, but the proper way to prevent people from wanting to
use the Plib branch is to *fix* the OSG code.  Whining about it
is kinda bad form.  People want to use the plib branch because
it works better than the OSG branch, and they shouldn't be denied
features just because it makes developers' jobs harder.

This is a big, disruptive change, and I'm sympathetic to you,
really.  YASim and Nasal were big and disruptive too.  But so
far, OSG has produced literally zero benefit for anyone.
People's experience has been anywhere between "it seems to work
OK" to "everything is slow and ugly" to "I can't get it to
build!".

For myself:

+ I don't like the OSG build system at all.  Getting the
   equivalent of --prefix requires 5 non-standard environment
   variables to be set, and it doesn't support building
   out-of-tree.

+ It's freakin' huge!  Takes longer to compile than the rest of
   FlightGear put together.

+ C++ shared libraries (12 of them).  Enough said.  I tried
   the "make static" option, but it didn't install the libraries
   properly.

And the biggest complaint:

+ No released version of OSG works with FlightGear, nor does
   their CVS head.  Technically, we're porting onto a *fork* of
   OSG right now.  We never did this with plib: if we needed
   features from CVS plib, we'd still have compatibility code in
   place that work work with their releases.

Andy


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Douglas Campos]

i've found here (pentium D 805) :

okay, we lost 3d clouds and some shiny transparencies, but...

the frame rate, although lower, gave me a smoother play. no bigger
drops, like with the plib branch.

in general, it left the impression of a more robust fgfs

just my 3cents

(sorry for the bad english)

On 11/7/06, Lou Sanchez-Chopitea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> Curtis Olson wrote:
>
> > On 11/7/06, *leee* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > I suspect that the graphics will prove to be the trickiest problem
> > - it's by
> > far the greatest resource user -
> >
> >
> >
> > Right, in all this we need to remember that in all our past
> > benchmarking, the graphics themselves account for 90-95% of the
> > workload.  OSG provides some opportunities to thread the graphics
> > rendering itself, but beyond that, the remaining 5-10% of
> > computational effort is pretty small in comparison.  Further dividing
> > that up into additional threads may not be such a huge win, unless as
> > Durk says there are tasks that are "bursty" like metar fetching which
> > has to block on network IO ... that makes a lot of sense to put into a
> > separate thread, but does anyone realize the pain we wen through to
> > debug that simple task?  And then does anyone recall that a subsequent
> > patch broke it all again and we had to wind all the way through the
> > process and figure it all out again.  Lot's of pain was endured by at
> > least a couple developers to make that work.
>
> That's OK, I foresee (and am currently feeling) more pain, since FG
> won't run on my system (dual Athlon system running Core 5). Hasn't ever
> worked even in Plib days. Working on the FG threading is something that
> interests me since I am looking at such things at work right now.
>
> > So yes, threading does indeed make sense in certain specific contexts,
> > but we need to be really careful about what we do, exactly why we do,
> > and what specific peformance benefits we *know* we will get by
> > threading some new task.
> >
> > Curt.
> > --
> > Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project
> > http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/
> > 
> > http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/  http://www.flightgear.org
> > Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
> >
> >
> >
> >-
> >Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> >Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> >Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> >http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> >
> >
> >
> >___
> >Flightgear-devel mailing list
> >Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
> >
> >
> Cheers
>
> Lou
>
>
>
> -
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> ___
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[leee]

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 20:11, Curtis Olson wrote:
> On 11/7/06, leee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I suspect that the graphics will prove to be the trickiest problem - it's
> > by
> > far the greatest resource user -
>
> Right, in all this we need to remember that in all our past benchmarking,
> the graphics themselves account for 90-95% of the workload.  OSG provides
> some opportunities to thread the graphics rendering itself, but beyond
> that, the remaining 5-10% of computational effort is pretty small in
> comparison. Further dividing that up into additional threads may not be
> such a huge win, unless as Durk says there are tasks that are "bursty" like
> metar fetching which has to block on network IO ... that makes a lot of
> sense to put into a separate thread, but does anyone realize the pain we
> wen through to debug that simple task?  And then does anyone recall that a
> subsequent patch broke it all again and we had to wind all the way through
> the process and figure it all out again.  Lot's of pain was endured by at
> least a couple developers to make that work.
>
> So yes, threading does indeed make sense in certain specific contexts, but
> we need to be really careful about what we do, exactly why we do, and what
> specific peformance benefits we *know* we will get by threading some new
> task.
>
> Curt.

One thing to remember when saying that the graphics accounts for 90-95% of the 
utilisation is that it doesn't necessarily follow that all the other 
subsystems get the resources that they require.  For example, I'd like to be 
able to run the autopilot pid controllers at much higher and more consistent 
rates than is possible now and even though the FDM rates are supposed to be 
guaranteed, in practice, it doesn't always seem to be the case.

Personally, I'm not a fan of 'threading' as a parallel-processing solution, 
not only because of the problems you mention, but also because it doesn't 
scale.

LeeE


-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG Performance on WIndows

[Curtis Olson]

On 11/7/06, Andy Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is a big, disruptive change, and I'm sympathetic to you,really.  YASim and Nasal were big and disruptive too.  But sofar, OSG has produced literally zero benefit for anyone.People's experience has been anywhere between "it seems to work
OK" to "everything is slow and ugly" to "I can't get it tobuild!".For myself:+ I don't like the OSG build system at all.  + It's freakin' huge!  + C++ shared libraries (12 of them).  
And the biggest complaint:+ No released version of OSG works with FlightGear, nor does   their CVS head.  Hi Andy, all extremetly valid points that cannot be contested.
A couple points though in return.First, the scene graph landscape has always been less than ideal.  I remember going though the thought process the first time around of which scene graph library we would pick and at the time, plib had lots of limitations and was very new, but seemed like the least evil of the available options.
We can put forth some pretty strong complaints about OSG, but we can also do the same with Plib/ssg.Plib/ssg has never even had multi-texturing support.  Our attempts to submit patches to do that were rejected.  Has plib/ssg seen any real development or advancement in the last 5 years?  No shader support, no threading support, etc.  Do any other major well known projects use plib/ssg besides FlightGear?  Maybe a handful of smaller apps and home brew games?
Your last point that we require a branch of the OSG tree is probably the most problematic.  However, getting the required changes and patches and fixes into the next OSG release is the top item on Mathias's todo list.  I am led to believe that this is only a very short term problem for us.
We do have some friends highly placed in the OSG world, so I am confident that we will get our changes into the main OSG branch in due time.Curt.-- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project
http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/  http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Ampere K. Hardraade]

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 10:50, Curtis Olson wrote:
> I'm not saying we should not ever do threading in flightgear, indeed we
> have two sub threads along with the main program already.
Shouldn't there be three?  Or is FlightGear not getting inputs from the user 
when it hangs?

> My only point is we shouldn't thread something that takes 0.5% of the
> processor time of the main thread just because we think threads are cool.
I disagree.  Performance isn't everything.  More on this later.

> Threads impose a huge penalty in terms of complicating the code, hiding
> really subtle bugs, and maintaining threaded code over time just
> complicates this matter because new people come in and make changes when
> they don't fully understand all the subtle interrelationships (timing,
> functionality, etc) of the code.
My opinions on:
Subtle bugs -- these get hidden anyway without the "help" of multiple threads.

New people coming in who don't know what they are doing -- we get these with 
single thread application too.  People just "dive into the code" without any 
aid of documentation -- the documentation like those used by the mechanic who 
fixes your car -- the maintenance manuals.  And what do people who don't know 
what they are doing do?  They introduce subtle bugs.  And other people who 
don't know what they are doing create the so call "work-arounds" and hide 
these subtle bugs.  And the cycle goes on...

So, if the complexity of multithreading causes things to break constantly and 
whenever someone screws up, it isn't exactly a bad thing.

> So sure, we can add more threads, but there needs to be some really
> substantial justification for doing it, and if there isn't a significant
> performance based justification as part of that, then I will be very
> sceptical.
Some simulation require the stability of their update frequency.  With these, 
you can't have a process that interrupts and ocassionaly lengthens the length 
of one iteration.

Consider one end, you have a code that takes up 0.5% of the processor time 
updating the property tree, and on the other hand, you have an external 
application that is feeding off these properties to drive a hydraulic motion 
platform.  Now, suppose the user is in some maneuver that brings into view a 
very sophisicated scene, and due to the single thread, causes a momentary 
lockup of the renderer, and hence the lockup of the simulator.  The external 
application was used to seeing the property tree getting update once per 0.05 
second, but now, it sees ONE update of 1 seconds, and assumed that the 
acceleration as 100g instead of 5g.  So:

1) Should the hydraulic jacks try to simulate that 100g?
2) Should the safety system kicks in and shutdown the sim?

#1 is completely out of the question, as someone could be killed.  So, #2 is 
the only viable option.  Unfortunately, single thread and #2 don't mix, 
because alarms would be going up all the time.

As you can see, although putting that 0.5% in its own thread would make no 
performance gain, it would make a huge difference in terms of the realism of 
the simulation, and its impression on those engineers who are evaluating 
FlightGear.
>
> Regards,
>
> Curt.

Ampere

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Ampere K. Hardraade]

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 14:50, Durk Talsma wrote:
> With the advent of multicore CPU's I have actually been considering the
> possibilities of moving parts of the AI code to a separate thread. The
> problem with AI isn't so much that it uses huge amounts of CPU time, but
> that it needs it (at least in the current implementation) in spikes.
> Currently this results in quite considerable pauses (which can actually
> last up to a few seconds, or more). The two main offenders are:
> - AI model loading, due to disk access.
> - The AI network route tracing algorithm, which just needs to do a lot of
> searching.
>
> It would possibly be possible to keep the trace algorithm in a single
> thread. By limiting the number of computations per frame,  but I don't
> really see a clean way to implement that right away (especially not for the
> trace algorithm.
>
> Cheers,
> Durk
Why not make it runs as a stand-alone application on a remote machine, and 
distribute the AI information to every user who is logged on?  This would 
allow everyone on the multiplayer to see the same AI instances; and for those 
who are running FG on multiple computers and monitors, the same instance of 
clouds across all their screens?

Ampere

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Curtis Olson]

On 11/7/06, Ampere K. Hardraade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Shouldn't there be three?  Or is FlightGear not getting inputs from the userwhen it hangs?Well by my count: 1. main thread, 2. scenery paging thread, 3. weather fetching thread. 
My opinions on:Subtle bugs -- these get hidden anyway without the "help" of multiple threads.Seriously, and believe me when I say this.  Threads open the door to a whole new level of even more subtle, difficult, and hard to trace bugs than you would have otherwise.  I suspect you won't buy that, but it's true.  Threading bugs are nasty because subtle timing issues can produce code that works fine for hours or perhaps only bomb once every couple days.  This can be incredibly difficult to debug because it is nearly impossible to reproduce and the debug/edit/compile/run cycle can be hours or days for one iteration.  The tendency is often that if it works most of the time, and it's hard to find the problem, let's not worry about it and move on.  Pretty soon you have an application that has trouble running more than an hour or two without crashing due to a number of different bugs that have crept in.  And if you get to that point, you need the resources of, oh, let's say microsoft, to dig yourself out of that hole.  Not that I would pick on microsoft in this context for any particular reason.
Seriously, threads are really cool in a simple text book example, but in a complex real world application, danger, danger, danger! 
Consider one end, you have a code that takes up 0.5% of the processor timeupdating the property tree, and on the other hand, you have an externalapplication that is feeding off these properties to drive a hydraulic motion
platform.  [snip]#1 is completely out of the question, as someone could be killed.  So, #2 isthe only viable option.  Unfortunately, single thread and #2 don't mix,because alarms would be going up all the time.
Clearly there are cases where you can't proceed with out threads.  Threaded scenery paging is one, threaded metar fetching is another.  Neither consume a huge amount of CPU time over the course of the application, but each has specific reasons why it makes sense to put those in a thread.
But threading even these "simple" things has been extremely painful.  I've been intimately involved in that pain several times for each of these threads.Really!  We should go out of our way to find a workable non-threaded solution before we add new threads to the code.
If there is an abolute requirement from an architecture standpoint, then ok, let's talk about it.But if we just want to make use of our fancy multi-core CPU's, well then, hold on a second, what chunk of cpu intensive stuff are we planning to move over and run on another thread on another core?
My whole point is not that we should never do threads because we already do in a couple special cases.  But we just need to be really smart, really thoughtful, and really actually require a thread before we put ourself through the pain and a new order of magnitude of subtle bugs again.
Curt.-- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Projecthttp://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/  
http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/  http://www.flightgear.orgUnique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG and multicore processor

[Ampere K. Hardraade]

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 23:20, Curtis Olson wrote:
> Really!  We should go out of our way to find a workable non-threaded
> solution before we add new threads to the code.
One could always break FlightGear into sub-applications and let them 
communicate via UDP ports.

Ampere

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] What does control gear/gear[0]/position-norm property in A-10?

[Ampere K. Hardraade]

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 15:10, Roberto Inzerillo wrote:
> Hi,
>  I'm new to aircraft model animating, I'm trying to understand what does
> control the gear/gear[0]/position-norm property in the A-10 aircraft ...
> I really don't get it :-(Any help?
>
> I'm in the process of learning how to make parts of the aircraft move
> under certain circumstances. By now I'm reading the .xml files regarding
> the landing gears movement, so I came to that position-norm property
> which seems to control the rotate animation.
>
>Roberto

Most likely the extension/retraction animation of the nose landing gear.

Ampere

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Antonov AN-2 ready for download

[Yurik V. Nikiforoff]

В сообщении от 8 Ноябрь 2006 05:42 Didier Fabert написал(a):
> > But I have a problem. I am not able to start the engine. I put on
> > electric main-switch, magnetos to 1+2, fuel up, starter switch on, other
> > starter switch short to the left and then to right (I hold it on the
> > right), the propeller turns some seconds and then: silence...
> > Any one else with this problem?
>
> same thing here, perhaps an explaination with some screenshots can help us.
>
> aircraft engine looks like my engine car : ignition problem :-)

Well, I suppose about this trouble. It's result of bad help...

Real AN-2 equipped inertial starter. It allow to start engine even main 
battery full discharged - there is handle for spinup wlywheel of starter 
manually, from cargo cabin. Usually, for start engine, flywheel of starter 
spinned of electric engine.

Main procedure of use inertial starter this:

1. Turn on electrical circuit for supply electrical engine of starter: main 
battery switch & starter switch. Red "generator failure" lamp will on, like a 
car;

2. Spinup of wlywheel of starter; for this, turn starter selector to left 
position and hold it _until wlywheel will spinned_. While wheel spinning, 
consumable current will decreasing from max value (see VA-3 instrument) to 
value around zero, when wlywheel will spin enough.  It take around 7 sec; you 
will hear sound of spinned wlywheel.
 
3. Apply spinned flywheel to engine crankshaft: set starter selector to right 
position and hold it _until engine started_. It take several second; see on 
tachometer instrument TE-48. When engine achieved above 550 rpm, release 
selector and turn off starter switch.

There is one problem around it. Power of starter not enough for spin engine 
shaft with big propeller - as I understand, this is JSBsim limitation. I read 
about it in devel list, but fix not ready yet. Cause this limitation, 
inertial starter may work unstable.

You may discard inertial started at all - go to an2-set.xml and comment 
binding of key 32:


 

 
comment here:


It allow you crank engine by press spacebar, as default.


-- 
Wbr, Yurik

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Antonov AN-2 ready for download

[Yurik V. Nikiforoff]

В сообщении от 8 Ноябрь 2006 04:38 Maik Justus написал(a):
> right), the propeller turns some seconds and then: silence...
> Any one else with this problem?

I answer to next letter.

>
> And I found a minor bug. The help (engine start, space bar) only works
> on 1024x768.

Yes, but parametrized help, for several screen sizes, take too many times for 
tune text position, cause I can't reload nasal script on runtime...

May be, I do it late...

> I hope I can fly it tomorrow.

I write additional manual to next letter. I hope, it will help you.

-- 
Wbr, Yurik

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG Issues

[Ampere K. Hardraade]

On Monday 06 November 2006 18:52, alexis bory wrote:
> Time to go to bed, I did test something like 30 aircrafts... there is
> still 50 to be tested !
> http://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/index.php?title=List_of_%27compa
Good to see my aircraft run okay so far. :)

>tible%27_aircrafts#List_of_.27compatible.27_aicrafts the longuest is writing
> the result in the wiki...
Ah yes, lab report is always the most dreadful part.

> good night all ;)

Ampere

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Antonov AN-2 ready for download

[Yurik V. Nikiforoff]

В сообщении от 7 Ноябрь 2006 17:04 AJ MacLeod написал(a):

> The main problem with the 2d panel is the way it disappears if one looks
> around - this problem was recently fixed in the pc7 and it would be a big
> improvement if it was done in the an2.

I bind nasal command "center wiew" to one of joystick button in my preferences 
file. Now, after I look around, I press this button and panel stay on screen.

> The only concern I have is about the flight manual - we have to be very
> careful about copyright here.  If the manual is still in copyright then
> perhaps it would be better if you kept it available for download (for
> example) on your website and provided a link within the an2 documentation.
> That way, the project avoids any potential copyright problems and Russian
> speakers can still get to read the manual.  I wish I could!

Ok, I write about it in forum of russian simmers, may be I found authors of 
manual...

-- 
Wbr, Yurik

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] OSG Performance on WIndows

[Martin Spott]

Andy Ross wrote:

>  > I would like to restrict that a bit.  For bugfixes and non
>  > developers this might be a good idea. But please do not develop
>  > new features on the branch. I know how many problems this will
>  > give.  And to be honest, Olaf I believe You know what I am
>  > talking about ...
> 
> No offense, but the proper way to prevent people from wanting to
> use the Plib branch is to *fix* the OSG code.

If you wold have monitored the progress then you would have discovered
that this process has already started. The patch to the RGB loader is
already in OSG CVS. BTW, If you remind the early days of your Nasal or
YASim BLOB's in FlightGear then you'll remember that people ran into
significant difficulties with these as well - I know this pretty good
because I _was_ concerned.
Well, problems got fixed after a while - same here, so _why_ are you
actually complaining !? This is simply "development taking place".

> This is a big, disruptive change, and I'm sympathetic to you,
> really.  YASim and Nasal were big and disruptive too.  But so
> far, OSG has produced literally zero benefit for anyone.

Maybe _you_ don't see the benefit, some people actually do, this sort
of benefit is just different from what you probably did expect.
Migrating FlightGear over to OSG is a move that, to flatten the path to
improved visual effects, was in fact unavoidable. Nobody even dared to
step onto the plate and actually _do_ it because everyone knows, that
replacing the whole scenegraph interface is at a different level than
adding another FDM or script interpreter to a flight simulation - that
also 'plays' nice without having these additions working.

As you'll have realized, I'm glad that Mathias took on this. I have two
different platforms where FlightGear/OSG doesn't run blazing fast but
at stable frame rates!
I have two additional platforms where I was able to build OSG right out
of the box - and where I expect to build FlightGear sooner or later. Do
you have at least the slightest idea how long it takes to get a patch
into the PLIB build system in order to fix obviously incorrect
assumptions for a certain platform ? Don't count in months, better
count in semesters. Do you prefer such a dependency over OSG, which
simply just works on the mentioned four platforms ?

> + I don't like the OSG build system at all.

Well every one of us should be allowed to have personal preferences,
don't we ?  ;-)

> + No released version of OSG works with FlightGear, nor does
>their CVS head.  Technically, we're porting onto a *fork* of
>OSG right now.  We never did this with plib:

This is plain wrong. Certain things in FlightGear simply don't work
with the latest PLIB release (which is now one and a half years old).
This counts for some features in FlightGear (especially the menu
system) as well as building PLIB on some platforms that FlightGear runs
on (you have to patch PLIB release in order to build on FreeBSD for
example).

I accept that you don't like the move to OSG maybe simply because it's
not your invention, but please don't start spreading 'misleading'
allegations,

Martin.
-- 
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--

-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel