Re: [Freedos-user] dev86
On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 03:32:17PM -0500, Jim Hall wrote: > Yes, and it's included as part of FreeDOS 1.3. You'll find the install > package on the BonusCD. Here's the report .. scroll down to > "Development" and you'll find the "bcc" package that Tom and I linked > to: > > https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.3/official/report.html > > > You can also get to this report from www.freedos.org -> Download -> > What's included. Thanks. It wasn't included in my installation, because I'm all the time using 1.0... ;) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dev86
On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 08:35:29PM +0200, tom ehlert wrote: > > Yes, I mean exactly that package, and if somebody already compiled it for > > DOS, I'll just save some of my time trying to do that compilation > > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/1.3/pkg-html/bcc.html Oh, so Jim meant it's part of compiler package? Somehow I misunderstood. Thank you! -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dev86
On Sun, May 29, 2022 at 11:34:18PM -0500, Jim Hall wrote: > But tkchia is listed as a contributor of dev86 tools, so maybe tkchia can > provide additional comments here. Yes, I mean exactly that package, and if somebody already compiled it for DOS, I'll just save some of my time trying to do that compilation -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] dev86
Anyone compiled dev86 tools for DOS? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing Freedos on a Opendos system
On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 08:31:33AM +, Rober To via Freedos-user wrote: > Hi everybody: > I would like to know if it is possible to install Freedos on a Opendos > system. I want to have both systems and choose one or the other. I believe it should be feasible using GRUB (but not tried to install two DOSes so far) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O
It was serial mouse used in Microsoft mode ("mouse /3"). Connected to Multi
I/O adapter inserted into slot of my trusty Soyo-SiS mobo. It's Fellowes
"Combo" mouse, which has PS/2 connector and PS/2 <-> RS-232 adapter
(currently in use).
As I wrote: I did a comparison, and no problem when using gmouse driver
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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O
Please, note: CuteMouse v2.1 beta4 probably is flawed. One day I was tried it with "Civilization", but when using this mouse driver the game always has been hung after relatively short period of time (like 30-40 moves) and then I wasn't able to do any more input (it was beeping at me like in case of keyboard buffer overflow). Used it as "mouse /3" (Microsoft mode). No such problem when I selected "keyboard only mode" (not loading CuteMouse driver at all). Also no problem while using gmouse driver -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS game compatibility mass testing results/questions
On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 10:54:50AM -0600, Jim Hall wrote: > I think that's a very narrow view. The reality is that a lot of the > "classic" (say, '486 or earlier) hardware is hard to find - at least in > working condition. The site: ebay.com The search phrase: motherboard 486 The result: more than 10 pages 50 positions each page I didn't try "386", "286", "Pentium"... what for? Of course it's NOT that difficult to find working 486. No problem to get graphics card, sound card etc. -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS game compatibility mass testing results/questions
On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 04:03:57PM -0600, Jim Hall wrote: > But like the report on BTTR, I can't run Wolfenstein 3D. I've tried a > number of different combinations: (I am running RC5 on QEMU on Linux) > > . With and without SLOWDOWN (attempted SLOWDOWN /MHz486:66 and /MHz486:133, > and SLOWDOWN /A) > . With and without JEMM > . With and without FDXMS > . With and without loading any drivers[see note] > > > The results are the same: the program flips into graphics mode, then sits > there. It's like it's frozen. Maybe I'm narrow minded, but I've got a strange feeling that you're fighting hardware-related problems. Not a problem with Wolf3D on my Soyo; that's why I recommended to use proper hardware, if anyone wants to test "FreeDOS compatibility". Just tested version 1wolf14.zip downloaded from https://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/wolfenstein-3d/ No problem whatsoever -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS game compatibility mass testing results/questions
On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 03:43:42PM +0100, Eric Auer wrote: > Hi! > > > 1. Any attempt to run any old game -- if you mean "testing FreeDOS > > compatibility" -- should be done on "legacy hardware". > > Not necessarily. It is exciting to check what can be done on modern PC. Necessarily if you mean "testing FreeDOS compatibility", and not "what can be done on modern PC". > But I wonder if people here remember for some of the games whether > they work with FreeDOS and whether and which trick that requires. During past years I tested several games -- in my experience one shouldn't expect more issues than in case of MS/PC-DOS. As the gamers surely remember from the past: in case of "original" DOSes sometimes there were problems to solve too -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS game compatibility mass testing results/questions
On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 11:13:45AM +0100, Eric Auer wrote: > Hi! There is a thread about freedos game compatibility on BTTR, > started by liljames2k: > > https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=18483 > > Zyzzle suggested making sure that all DOS extenders are in PATH > (not sure why Zyzzle said DPMI extenders) but in any case, I do > think Commander Keen 6 works in FreeDOS :-) So not sure what is > going wrong here. Note that 6 GB RAM is quite a lot and that half > of the errors are about not finding files. I have sorted the BTTR > table by type of error. Maybe some of you can share their experience > regarding the use of any of those games? Maybe you remember which > trick to use. I could imagine that some of them use DOS4GW and run > into some problem with too new hardware and work better with DOS32A? 1. Any attempt to run any old game -- if you mean "testing FreeDOS compatibility" -- should be done on "legacy hardware". For simplicity let's say "the motherboard should feature at least one ISA slot". If you mean testing sound: it should be done using ISA soundcard, inserted exactly in that (single?) ISA slot. If anyone is using newer hardware -- e.g. PCI-only -- you'll never 100% know "is it FreeDOS or hardware-related issue". 2. Not being that busy with playing computer games anymore, from what I see on the list there is "Comanche" listed as "non-working" (because of Jemmex). I tested Comanche as working on my Soyo mobo -- I don't recall this moment does is cooperate with Jemmex or I used any other memory manager. But this is the point: FreeDOS is one thing -- and its "ecosystem" is another thing. So there may be a problem related to Jemmex in particular, not being actually any FreeDOS-related issue -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Sound in (Free)DOS
On Sat, Oct 02, 2021 at 12:57:54PM +0200, Frantisek Rysanek wrote: Thank you for detailed explanation. So it doesn't look that good. :( Maybe I was a little bit too fast. Just one thing: > Note that the SandyBridge that you have purchased has been phased out > by Intel relatively recently - and is about 9 generations old by now. > The last 2-3 generations of Intel x86 CPU's come with UEFI without > the BIOS-legacy-compatible CSM - even in the industrial portfolio. > Technically these are not PC's anymore, in the sense that you cannot > boot DOS (or Windows up to XP for that matter) on their bare metal, > and Win7 only in theory. But I've found a manual to this mobo: https://www.ibase-europe.com/english/down.php?hFFile=en_downloada_caty01425982786.pdf It clearly shows "BIOS configuration" -- so my impression was it's able to cooperate with DOS? Or am I missing something? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Sound in (Free)DOS
>From time to time there is a question raised about "getting sound under the DOS control". Most probably the best solution is to use old ISA soundcard. But not everyone is willing to search for old -- now "obsolete" -- mobos and other peripherals; still there is other solution: to get _new_ modern mainboard featuring ISA slot, like this one, for example: https://www.ebay.de/itm/303579781248?hash=item46aec3d880:g:w64AAOSwmIlg9VZD No, it's not my auction; I placed an order for it today, I'll let you all know how does it work under FreeDOS' control, and what about sound -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Is it possible to have sound on SoundBlaster Live! CT4830 for PCI slot in FreeDOS?
On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:56:41AM +0200, Karol wrote: > Is it possible to have sound on SoundBlaster Live! CT4830 for PCI slot in > FreeDOS? > > I know there is no problem with old SoundBlaster sound cards with an ISA > slot. But what is SoundBlaster Live! to PCI slot? Is it possible to emulate > legacy SoundBlaster sound cards? https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=SoundBlaster+Live!+sound+in+DOS -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:15:04PM -0400, dmccunney wrote: > > completed lately my DOS machine with additional 1.2 MB 5,25" FDD for > > occasional use of my old diskettes. So I have 3,5" FDD as drive A: and > > 5,25" FDD as drive B: now. > > > > But there is a problem: I can only access the drive A: - never both drives > > on a whim. So to access 5,25" drive I have to "swap drives" in BIOS setup > > first, and only then I can read that bigger diskette. > > I'm willing to bet this is a motherboard/BIOS issue. Maybe someone from FreeDOS' community has any ASRock mobo for Athlon XP and could confirm the problem? I'm trying to persuade service of ASRock that yes, there is a problem with their mobos from that epoch -- but they have a nice excuse: "so far nobody else reported that" -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Wrap up of FreeDOS articles
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 10:15:47AM -0500, Jim Hall wrote: > I also get a lot of "I need help" emails, since my email address is on > the website. And a lot of people email me with questions about how to > use zip files. Having the whole Internet at their disposal -- along with tools like Google, Bing, Yandex etc.? Unbelievable. Even without this: PKZIP/PKUNZIP package contains fine docs. They can't read? But they write e-mail messages... Laziness and fecklessness taken to the extreme -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Wrap up of FreeDOS articles
On Sat, Jul 03, 2021 at 10:56:57AM -0500, Jim Hall wrote: > Hi everyone! > > I hope you enjoyed the month-long article series on Opensource.com, > about FreeDOS. Here are the articles that ran this week, as June > wrapped up: > > "How to archive files on FreeDOS" (Zip and Unzip) > https://opensource.com/article/21/6/archive-files-freedos So this is what now requires an article, after 40 years of DOS history? "What is ZIP and what is it for"? History has come full circle, it seems -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] DBCS question about dosbox-x
Whatever you decide if it means additional overhead on kernel (very likely) it would be good idea to separate "CJK-enabled" and "non-CJK" kernels, since this is very specific ability, not useful for everyone -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos Install Problem
Maybe let's start with this: how is your HDD partitioned and do you use any boot-loader utility to load FreeDOS? If so - how its FreeDOS section looks like? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos Install Problem
On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 08:40:25AM -0700, Andrew wrote: > Ive installed different operating systems on the two hdds I have, over 15 > times in total between them all. Every time DOS and 98 installs fine, > freedos always gives the same error. And if I boot from bios to cd to hdd, > freedos also works, but I cant do that on i486 computer because it doesnt > have cd or floppy drive working. So I know it isnt random/ hardware > problem, like faulty hard drive. The OSes work fine. You wrote in your initial post about "warnings" FreeDOS is giving you; so it's clear to me: you've got hardware-related problem. System reported it has trouble while trying to access your disk. Maybe something wrong with your LBA settings (Normal/Large/LBA in BIOS)? Anyway I would try a different drive/cable pair first -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos Install Problem
On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 07:37:30AM -0700, Andrew wrote: > 2) The error simply says disk read error in the pentium 2. Isn't it clear enough? You've got some sort of hardware problem. Try different cables, different HDD etc. -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Forwarding and commenting a FreeDOS 1.3rc3 critical review
On Sat, May 01, 2021 at 10:57:09PM +1000, Bryan Kilgallin wrote: > Our enemies bless us by telling us our weaknesses! It's not about supposed "weakness" of (Free)DOS; it's about weakness of that "tester", who doesn't want to "waste" time learning. He doesn't want DOS; he wants "kind of other Windows" rather, to "point and click". Following him one could say that any OS (or any installer) not featuring "user-friendly" GUI is trash and garbage. Maybe from his personal point of view indeed it is -- because he's not willing (or simply unable) to learn how to take advantage of command line. DOS surely has some weaker points -- but surely you can't include into that set command line use. It's feature, not bug/weakness. It's "just the way it is". If he dosn't like it -- he can try for example Kolibri, it's GUI-oriented from the very start. Allow DOS to stay DOS! -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Forwarding and commenting a FreeDOS 1.3rc3 critical review
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 05:18:11PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > Which better SYSINFO utilities could we bundle? HWINFO, NSSI > and VC probably are all closed source, what else is out there? Disk Navigator? But, actually, why are you so upset about this review? You won't please the Windows' user; he expects "user-friendly OS" -- and "user friendliness" he sees as the way Windows offer. So to sum up that review one can answer: "...and what did you expect? It's DOS -- you have to learn at least some basic skills to make any use out of it" -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why do you use DOS
On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 01:15:30PM +, Deposite Pirate wrote: > The mainstream is the domain of the followers, those who don't have a clue. The mainstream is a source of new hardware and software -- whether you like it, or you don't -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why do you use DOS
On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 06:17:15PM +, Deposite Pirate wrote: > Because there is no such thing as a "retro" or "ancient" computer. > That wording is programmed obsolescence propaganda. Yes, there is. When new software is created only by hobbyists -- no longer by companies -- and also new hardware is created only as hobby thing, not mass-manufactured by any company, not sold in the shops when there are no new device drivers created (again just as hobby) we have to admit such platform fell out of "mainstream" (from any "stream", actually, maybe with exception of "hobbystream"), becoming "retro" -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why do you use DOS
On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 08:59:05AM -0700, Johnpaul Humphrey wrote: > So my question is, why do YOU use FreeDOS? > Is it primarily nostalgia? Legacy program support? Speed? Visit sites like "vetusware" and you'll see that there's plenty of programs that can still be useful today, while being used on modest hardware. You don't need multicore CPU and 16-64 GB of RAM tu run spreadsheet or text processor, it seems (just one example). Or to play interesting game. DOS became the best "retro-computing" platform; while most of the software for Amiga or Atari ST, that can be seen as still interesting even today, is almost only gaming-related software, using DOS you are actually limited when it goes to Internet services; for most of other areas of your activity you can still use DOS software. And please note, that there's still plenty of DOS-compatible hardware around that can be bought on eBay etc. at rather decent prices, while e.g. Amiga-related hardware (or similar) became very expensive -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] DOS Audio
On Sat, Mar 06, 2021 at 05:01:15PM -0500, Jerome Shidel wrote: > If not, do you know of any good Sound Baster compatible PCI cards? The ones that use Yamaha YMF724/744 chips https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=48133 -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] num lock
On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 03:34:24AM +0100, Tomas By wrote: > On Wed, 03 Mar 2021 03:16:19 +0100, ZB wrote: > > > > http://home.mnet-online.de/willybilly/fdhelp-internet/en/hhstndrd/cnfigsys/numlock.htm > > > Thanks. Maybe this should be under freedos.org somewhere, and > available for search engine indexing... Did you try to google for "freedos numlock"? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] num lock
On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 03:05:19AM +0100, Tomas By wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a way to set num lock at start-up? Like this: > > http://www.easydos.com/numlock.html http://home.mnet-online.de/willybilly/fdhelp-internet/en/hhstndrd/cnfigsys/numlock.htm -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] CuteMouse v2.1 beta4
On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 04:38:52PM -0800, Ralf Quint wrote: > That is rather hazy, as in your initial post, you only mentioned you tried > "keyboard only", which is not the same as using another mouse (driver)... Just tried gmouse driver, and this one gave no problem. Yesterday I tried CuteMouse three times, with XMS, with EMS etc. It blocked the input sooner or later everytime -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] CuteMouse v2.1 beta4
On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 03:35:13PM -0800, Ralf Quint wrote: > And have you tried both another mouse and another mouse driver to determine > that the problem is indeed with Cutemouse? The problem indeed seems to be in the Cutemouse, since without Cutemouse I see no problem anymore. Only if Cutemouse is in use -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] CuteMouse v2.1 beta4
On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 11:54:33PM +0100, Eric Auer wrote: > Which hardware are you using My trusted Soyo-SiS mobo with Fellowes "Combo" mouse. > and which command line options have you tried? At the moment just "mouse /3" (Microsoft mode). > Have you compared to other > cutemouse versions, in particular in the 1.9 range? Not at the moment -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] CuteMouse v2.1 beta4
I've got a feeling there's something in a need for fix; I tried today to play Civilization, but using this mouse driver the game always has been hung after relatively short period of time (like 30-40 moves) and then I wasn't able to do any more input (it was beeping at me like in case of keyboard buffer overflow). No such problem when I selected "keyboard only mode" (not loading CuteMouse driver at all). Anynone noticed something like this? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] A different approach
On Thu, Feb 04, 2021 at 04:35:07PM -0600, Jim Hall wrote: > But I'm always on the lookout for an inexpensive Intel-based hobby system > that would run FreeDOS. I spoke with an embedded systems company a month or > two ago, and they are in development of an Intel embedded board with a BIOS > and VGA that will probably be around $100. I'd buy that if they finally > make it to market. Maybe they could "extend it beyond standard"? For example: VGA with sprites and raster-interrupts. It would be nice to have it available -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] A different approach
Build mini MSDOS gaming PC - NO EMULATION! PC104 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBsv-jRiIT8 (Using PC/104 components to build a mini 486 MSDOS gaming PC) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] program installation (files from floppies)
On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 12:31:13AM +0100, Tomas By wrote:
> I can see some other fairly ridiculous possibilities, like installing
> it somewhere else and copying the directory, but is there no way to do
> it directly in Freedos?
It's not FreeDOS' fault; it's programmers' fault. I mean the one, who
created the INSTALL.EXE program -- that instead of asking a question like
"Insert disk B into drive A: or type name of drive/subdirectory containing
that disk('s contents)" assumed that the user will use just single floppy
drive during installation.
It's actually pretty usual if you're trying to install some old software.
"Back in the day" the world without floppy drives was beyond comprehension,
it seems
--
regards,
Zbigniew
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Re: [Freedos-user] Any Gui?
On Sat, Jan 02, 2021 at 08:08:11PM +, Joao Silva wrote: > In DOS you have to type everything and Windows you have to click everything. > > DOS = No GUI. > > it's Better, Faster... Ditto. Aren't we fed up with these "GUIs" everywhere? Really a pity that since a longer time I cannot use Lynx, because no site presently has alternate pages for text-mode browser, that was keeping all that shiny "trendy-jazzy" trash away, passing through just pure information I was looking for -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] IDE <-> CF adapters
On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 02:00:31PM +0100, tom ehlert wrote: > this obviously doesn't depend on time, but on the way you use it, in > particular how much you write to it. BTW: professional photographers use their CF-cards much more intensively than I am using it as HDD replacement. Here's a whole thread about this: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3018717 -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] IDE <-> CF adapters
On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 02:00:31PM +0100, tom ehlert wrote: > > >> 1. This is bad idea - use flash cards for swap or more modern os (like all > >> windows). I had experience with 16 TF cards, which die after 1 year > >> (rewrite > >> limit). All 16 cards work in non-overloaded machines. > > > My CF card is used as "HDD" 3rd month - we'll see in 9 months will it > > survive. > > > I doubt it "must die" after a year of use - consider all that photocameras > > that use CF cards; their owners probably had to buy new CF cards each year. > > this obviously doesn't depend on time, but on the way you use it, in > particular how much you write to it. As you probably see I addressed the statement of "DosWorld" poster - it wasn't my idea, and I still doubt it. > also there is no such thing as 'CF card'. Maybe all these suppliers have no idea what they offer; who knows: https://www.amazon.com/CompactFlash-Memory-Cards/b?node=1197392 > that said, a modern CF card might survive a year as swap device. ...so we're back at this "one year" again, despite all these explanations :] -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] IDE <-> CF adapters
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 02:37:44PM +0100, DosWorld via Freedos-user wrote: > 1. This is bad idea - use flash cards for swap or more modern os (like all > windows). I had experience with 16 TF cards, which die after 1 year (rewrite > limit). All 16 cards work in non-overloaded machines. My CF card is used as "HDD" 3rd month - we'll see in 9 months will it survive. I doubt it "must die" after a year of use - consider all that photocameras that use CF cards; their owners probably had to buy new CF cards each year. > 2. Use last generation of motherboard for Pentium-1 (as minimum) with VIA > Apollo chipset (designed for Pentium and Amd K6/K6-2) - only this chipset > understand ATA100 native and allow connect CF via simple IDE-CF reductor I use that CF card with old 486 Soyo-SiS mobo (and the "simple reductor"). > (intel VX/HX - NO). As i understand, problem is - no support ATA100 in > older IDE-controllers. In other case, you need use PCI-IDE cards or special > modern ISA-IDE controllers (designed specially for use with CF). I use that CF card with old VLB IDE controller. Seems to be working just fine, the only problem is 2 GB limit; it can't "see" any larger partition. Anyway it's not related to CF card, but to controller rather -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Microsoft 8086 Assembler
On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 07:30:46PM -0500, Marv wrote: > I installed MASM before I realized there are a couple of assemblers listed > on the FreeDos software page. The Flat Assembler seems especially well > supported. Is anyone here familiar with FASM? MASM is probably overkill for > my purpose and like many other Microsoft products, their support for it is > mainly reference material for experienced programmers. You can try lightweight, freeware and simple NBASM: http://www.fysnet.net/newbasic.htm I bet it's more than enough -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] AMB, Ancient Machine Book format and FreeDOS Help
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 02:37:49PM +0100, Mateusz Viste wrote: > > Guys, I have no issues with AMB neither any other new invention - but... > > maybe simpler solution would be to copy solution offered by Tk's "text > > widget"? The "side advantage" would be ability to browse the texts prepared > > such way under every OS where Tk toolkit is available. > > That may be a good idea. Would you mind preparing an 8086-compatible > prototype so we can compare both options side by side? It's always nice to > have choice. > > > ...which will become "hyperlink", that after being clicked will move you > > to a later section of the same file having the header like this: > > > > 5. Settings / preferences > > > > means "link" > > means "bold> > > > > This is already done and easy to copy > > Indeed easy. I'm very interested to see what you can come up with. There's no need to wait for "8086 code" - if you're interested I can show you example of TCL/Tk solution. Of course similar way it'll work in DOS text mode (as Lynx does with HTML, for example). > On a semi-related note, following "DosWorld's" questions I have added a > rationale section in the AMB format spec file, so the thought process behind > each element of the format is clearer. I have also converted the format spec > itself to an AMB book (a txt version is available as well). The AMB version > can be read online here: > > http://amb.osdn.io/phpamb.php?fname=archiwum/format-20201215.amb On a second thought, however - actually why the need to create another non-standard format? You wrote: #v+ AMB [..] is a simple hyperlink format that makes it possible to create "books" that are easy to read even on very limited hardware. The "books" can be viewed with a tool named AMB. It is only a few kilobytes big and requires about 80K of available RAM. #v- I can see on the page: http://amb.osdn.io/phpamb.php?fname=archiwum/format-20201215.amb=ama.ama that there's mainly a difference in tags, say "%h" instead of "\" (I hope "escaped" triangle braces will show up). Actually that lightweight application could recognize \ as well as it presently recognizes "%h" - and then it could show that heading, say, centered and using "bold" attribute, right? Sticking to standards has its advantages - like, for example, that these help files may be browsed on any PC using any HTML browser, not just specialized tool. So IMHO the key isn't in new format, but in that lightweight application rather. It doesn't have to support full specification of HTML5 - it could, for instance, recognize just a few HTML tags to remain lightweight: - bold - underline - link - quote - code Can it be any less "lightweight" by using a few standard HTML tags, ignoring all the rest? All the other HTML tags can be simply ignored (not interpreted and of course not displayed), so help files could remain HTML, maybe just being prepared most simplistic way - while still being HTML, therefore any-browser-compatible. Maybe I'm wrong but I believe not the new format is "the key" -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] AMB, Ancient Machine Book format and FreeDOS Help
Guys, I have no issues with AMB neither any other new invention - but... maybe simpler solution would be to copy solution offered by Tk's "text widget"? The "side advantage" would be ability to browse the texts prepared such way under every OS where Tk toolkit is available. Some more details: https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/page/Text+Widget+Example https://www.python-course.eu/tkinter_text_widget.php https://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=667638 This can be done very easily, for example, in simplest case: Somewhere in supposed text file you can insert something like this: 5. Settings / preferences ...which will become "hyperlink", that after being clicked will move you to a later section of the same file having the header like this: 5. Settings / preferences means "link" means "bold> This is already done and easy to copy -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Package discussion
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 09:14:44AM +0100, Mateusz Viste wrote: > On 14/12/2020 01:22, ZB wrote: > > I think before taking such decision it would be worthy to browse the list > > again, but after doing "sort by size desc" first. Because the bigger the > > file the more closely it's worthy to look at it > > This leads to a situations where software is becoming less likely to be > included when its sources are big -- even though the software itself (once > compiled) might be tiny. I dare to estimate that more than 90% of DOS - or any other OS - users don't need any sources. Maybe even I should say: "more than 99%". Sources should be available separately - they are nothing but "placeholder" otherwise. What I meant was binary's size -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Package discussion
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 06:05:08PM -0600, Jim Hall wrote: > What do you think? I think before taking such decision it would be worthy to browse the list again, but after doing "sort by size desc" first. Because the bigger the file the more closely it's worthy to look at it "is there a common need for this, or probably not that much?". For example that Watcom programming tools are of course very valuable - but I believe they aren't in that common use among FreeDOS users. But their size is counted in megabytes - while Insight, considered to be dropped, has a little more than 200 KB of size -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Make sure your opinion is heard
On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 09:36:29PM +0100, Eric Auer wrote: > > Yes, but for starters the "modest" programming languages could be included: > > GW BASIC, 2-3 Forth compilers (they're tiny in size), C--, XPL0 etc. If I'm > > Nobody programs useful stuff with GW BASIC, C-- or XPL0. I meant LEARNING first of all. No need for Watcom line of "full blown" compilers for learning purposes. > Even with Forth, useful stuff is not written on DOS. So it's time to change it, isn't it? How it can be changed without even that few KB spent for humble Forth compiler? > If you want modest, try Ruxulo's tiny, working OpenWatcom C subset :-) I somehow don't believe it can be as modest as DX Forth or C--, for example. And no, I also don't believe when there will be Watcom C on CD the users immediately start coding "useful stuff for DOS". ;) When the need arises for such "big" compiler they surely will find it on ibiblio. > > correct also the ones "released" by Embarcadero (while not open-sourced) > > Turbo Pascal 3.02 and Turbo C 2.01 also could be included. > > Those could not legally be included and obviously FreeDOS should > show off the nice existing open source alternatives if you ask me. But Embarcadero can be contacted whether they allow it or not. They may even send back a written permit. Nice existing open source alternatives quite frequently have not-so-nice size; compare, for example, the size of mentioned Turbo Pascal 3.02 (less than one diskette 360 KB!) to size of Free Pascal. Or A86 to NASM. Yes, I'm aware Free Pascal and NASM offer "a bit more" - the question is: does someone who just wants to learn Pascal (or ML) need that "bit more" already at the very start? IMHO it may even bring confusion. > > I mean the ones that have modest space requirements, while at the same time > > offer immediate results for beginner programmer (and just fun). > > Which is why I have often voted small but nice things into FULL > and a few things even into BASE in the current poll, instead of > leaving those in EXTRA or ONLINE. Because it allows to show the > variety and maybe even fun which are possible in DOS to those > who "only" have downloaded the FULL CD which I think would be > a good compromise between size and features. Of course a 10 MB > FreeDOS would still outperform MS DOS 6.22 in various fields, > but it would be less fun and honestly, who worries about 10 MB > in times when people send 10 MB photos of their dinner by chat? > > > - let's consider what "average DOS user" may need... > > That is EXACTLY why the poll / survey is waiting for you :-) > There you can make a detailed selection and recommendation. > > ==> https://fd.lod.bz/survey :-) Of course I'll visit it. > > - when in a need for more - everything FreeDOS-related can be downloaded > > Not really, as many DOS users lack network connectivity even > if we include all available WIRED LAN drivers as part of BASE. So they may download it using their Android tablets and move to DOS using memory cards (that can be read as HDDs). > > - additionally DVD iso-images can be created that will contain all > > That would be a waste of bandwidth for those who do not need ALL. Actually it may be seen as this - but it's rather common nowadays (see Linux and xBSDs practice etc.). OK, it were just my 2c -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] What do you do with your FreeDos PC?
On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 03:17:52PM -0500, Marv wrote: > I'm wide open to any ideas. Just browse "Vetusware" and see; for many applications DOS is still relevant today. No particular need to fill your HDD up with 100 MB sized applications, when 100-200 KB ones do about the same thing. Just maybe they aren't represented by fancy "icons" you will click - typing their name instead. > So far I've got programs like Supercalc, Wordstar, GWBasic, DBase, etc > working. I transfer files back and forth to my Windows PC using FTP over my > local network. Indeed that's easiest way -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Make sure your opinion is heard
On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 08:59:03PM +0100, Eric Auer wrote: > > Maybe, but 90% of FreeDOS users don't need programming languages > > Well it is open source, so it is good to show users > what coding can mean ;-) Yes, but for starters the "modest" programming languages could be included: GW BASIC, 2-3 Forth compilers (they're tiny in size), C--, XPL0 etc. If I'm correct also the ones "released" by Embarcadero (while not open-sourced) Turbo Pascal 3.02 and Turbo C 2.01 also could be included. I mean the ones that have modest space requirements, while at the same time offer immediate results for beginner programmer (and just fun). And simply useful - they were used to create DOS applications, anyway. > A separate source code CD would be a nice idea indeed. My proposal is simple: - let's consider what "average DOS user" may need - surely not source code, neither Emacs nor Watcom C compiler - and let's pack "full featured" 650 MB CD. It still has menu that allows package selection, right? In the future, in case anything should be added there, then only at a "cost" of removing something first - when in a need for more - everything FreeDOS-related can be downloaded (maybe that online-installation tool by Mateusz Viste can be additional solution, if it's in "production ready" state) - additionally DVD iso-images can be created that will contain all these downloadable packages, to allow "offline installation", not relying on Internet Simple and straightforward, no "intermediate variants" -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Make sure your opinion is heard
On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 08:26:46PM +0100, Eric Auer wrote: > > "FreeDOS installation has to fit standard 650 MB CD" > > Even then I disagree. While you could fill entire DVD with > stuff for DOS, a FreeDOS CD could be a lot smaller That's why I meant 650 MB CD, not 4 GB DVD. > Just the 3 most common programming languages and RHIDE would > already be 72 MB (34 GCC, 15 G++, 6 RHIDE, 6 GAS, 4 GDB etc.). Maybe, but 90% of FreeDOS users don't need programming languages - and especially that "fat ones". Maybe GW BASIC etc. for "sentimental reasons". > Add EMACS with everything: 54 MB. Objective C: 22 MB. > GRX: 2 MB Allegro: Up to 19 MB Extra doc formats: 20 MB > Now you already are at 200 MB... Why are you willing to add on installation CD exactly these most space-demanding applications? How many FreeDOS users need exactly Emacs or Objective C? > Add the source code for everything: Voila, 423 MB purely > for DJGPP just some of their 3 GB kitchen sink of data: 90% (or more) of FreeDOS users don't need that source code. It should be placed on additional "source code CD", or available just for download -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Make sure your opinion is heard
On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 07:08:03PM +0100, tom ehlert wrote: > luckily for "FreeDOS", developement has stalled. > otherwise "FreeDOS" would be PetaBytes to download. Why petabytes? I believe there could be "sane boundary" established; for example: "FreeDOS installation has to fit standard 650 MB CD". I think such CD can comprise enough of DOS software tu suit everyone's taste. The rest can be available for download. So if willing to add another editor (or anything) to the contents of installation CD - consider which part of the set will be removed -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Multi-Boot with Windows 2000 and FreeDOS
On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 04:40:00PM +0100, Tomas By wrote: > Installing Linux last has always worked for me. I'm sure there is some > way to use only the boot loader (or whatever it is). Indeed - on one of my machines I use multi-boot DOS/OpenBSD/ForthOS/Windows/Kolibri - and I copied Grub 0.97 (for Linux) to OpenBSD partition. It can be copied anywhere provided it can recognize the partition where it'll be installed -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] PCI Express Network Adapter Board for FreeDos
On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 07:01:07PM -0500, Marv wrote: > I did order an external USB floppy to make it easier to trade small files > with my other computers. > > And the best news is my LAN came up first try! So won't it be more comfortable to share these files using network? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] PCI Express Network Adapter Board for FreeDos
Maybe "generic" NE2000 packet driver will do (I mean FreeDOS)? Something like this: https://dos.retro.software/downloads/download/300-ne2000-compatible-nic-drivers/1470-ne2000-packet-driver -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] PCI Express Network Adapter Board for FreeDos
On Sat, Nov 07, 2020 at 11:23:49AM -0500, Marv wrote: > You have a good point. I'm ready to give up on this motherboard and find an > older (and cheap) desktop with appropriate card slots. Too bad - this board > has some things I wanted like serial, parallel, PS2, VGA, plus HDMI, > USB2/USB3, and SATA3. But did you check it, for example, with "mem /c/p"? I bet that modern mobo won't leave you all of "conventional" 640 KB and most probably no free "upper memory" (for drivers etc.) at all. The "golden rule" is: "select motherboard that has at least one ISA slot" - and you can be 100% sure it will work under DOS control with no problem whatsoever -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] PCI Express Network Adapter Board for FreeDos
On Sat, Nov 07, 2020 at 10:45:31AM -0500, Jerome Shidel wrote: > Have you tried any of the drivers from > http://www.georgpotthast.de/sioux/packet.htm ? If I may suggest something: maybe instead of trying to "rape" obviously DOS-incompatible hardware it would be better idea to run FreeDOS on hardware that is compatible? It's no longer that expensive nowadays. So the other way around: rather "what I need to run FreeDOS with no problems" - instead of: "I bought PCI-express mobo - no ISA, not even PCI - now what?". Just my 2c -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Is there such a thing as an add-on SATA host controller that works with DOS?
On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 01:53:49PM +0200, tom ehlert wrote: > >> Considering how late FAT32 support came to the > >> DOS family of OSes I would understand why no manufacturer of SATA add-on > >> host controller bothered with DOS support. So I am wondering if there is > >> actually such a thing as an add-on SATA host controller that can be used > >> from DOS OSes. > > > You don't need any add-ons for SATA controllers to use them under DOS > > control. The only problem you may encounter is most probably you won't be > > able to use your DVD-ROM, if it's connected via SATA, but your HDD with DOS > > installed will work just fine > > that simply wrong. > the IBM Aptiva E30-2137 has only IDE/PATA onboard available and he > needs indeed a SATA controller with DOS/BIOS support. Maybe I misunderstood OP - he wrote about some "add-on", maybe having in mind just SATA controller. Such controller doesn't need any particular add-ons; just plug it in PCI slot and it'll work -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Is there such a thing as an add-on SATA host controller that works with DOS?
On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 08:14:44AM +, Deposite Pirate wrote: > Considering how late FAT32 support came to the > DOS family of OSes I would understand why no manufacturer of SATA add-on > host controller bothered with DOS support. So I am wondering if there is > actually such a thing as an add-on SATA host controller that can be used > from DOS OSes. You don't need any add-ons for SATA controllers to use them under DOS control. The only problem you may encounter is most probably you won't be able to use your DVD-ROM, if it's connected via SATA, but your HDD with DOS installed will work just fine -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Old BIOS issue
On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 07:20:32PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > It basically says there are many ways in which hardware or > software could fail to handle the year, but you do not say > WHICH of them affect YOU. In particular, you could give it > a try and change that "19" to "20" in your CMOS memory :-) > Maybe your BIOS just fails to store the changed values. > > write register number to port 0x70 > read or write contents via port 0x71 > > register number 0x32 contains the century in BCD, e.g. 0x20 > register number 0x09 contains the year, e.g. 0x20 now ;-) > > In some cases, the century might be in another register, > so you should first check what the current contents are. > > Note that OR-ing the register number with 0x80 blocks NMI > and that immediately after port 0x70 access you should > access port 0x71, but messing with year and century will > probably be quite harmless and not time critical. So I did the following using debug: mov al,32 out 70,al in al,71 --> AX=0020 mov al,09 out 70,al in al,71 --> AX=0094 And indeed: "date" immediately after boot says "Oct 19, 2094" -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Old BIOS issue
On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 08:47:35PM +, Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user wrote: > There's Y2KPatch which did the job on the dozen-or-so computers I had access > to at the time. Be warned, however, that I make absolutely no guarantees as > to how it will work on your system... I was a very young coder circa 1999, > and I haven't revised it since. > > You can find it here in the QBASIC Library: > http://mercurycoding.com/downloads.html Thanks, I'll use it carefully :) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Old BIOS issue
On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 07:31:02PM +0200, userbeit...@abwesend.de wrote: > Wow! Thanks for the link to Y2kure! This is the fix I absolutely prefer > for most of my older systems, since I deem any meddling with the BIOS > too dangerous... I just don't have the know-how to repair a possible > failure on that part. I believe your old motherboards similarly to mine properly keep track of all the "time parameters" but year alone. So it would be very easy to work the problem around by adding in AUTOEXEC.BAT the line like "date -y 2020" (if "date" utility had -y option - but it doesn't have it, so there's a need for parsing its output and creating proper date string which will be passed as parameter; or maybe for writing something directly to registers. Anyway I'll try to mess with that BIOS first -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Old BIOS issue
On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 01:39:41AM +0800, TK Chia wrote: > I guess it cannot hurt to ask a few questions: > > 1) What does the PC say that the "current date" is, at startup? It properly keeps hour:minutes, month and day - just changes the "year" always to "2094". I came up with workaround - since the year part changes just once a year, then I can make AUTOEXEC.BAT update just year alone. But I'd prefer to fix that BIOS, if possible. > 2) What version of DOS is it running? Very old BIOS from 1996, if I'm correct (it's VLB Soyo-SiS mobo). No, there's no update available. > I am wondering if the problem is that the old PC does not have a working > real-time clock at all, which would mean it cannot keep track of the > time once the power goes off. Its clock works OK - I'm going to follow Eric's suggestion as I end my work -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Old BIOS issue
On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 06:44:20PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > Hi! In which sense do you suffer from which bug exactly? > > Does int 1a function 4 return the wrong century? Wrong > year? Wrong other date fields and function 5 fails to > let you fix it? A simple TSR could override those calls. > > I fail to remember any other BIOS function handle years > and reprogramming the BIOS would be a lot more effort, > although it should be easy to find your int 1a handler > and tune it to return other centuries. It is uploading > the changed BIOS (with ok checksum!) that takes effort. I have to update current date each time I boot my DOS up, which is becoming somewhat irritating. I found some basic information here: https://www.daqarta.com/y2kure.htm (I mean "BACKGROUND" paragraph), but when possible I'd like simply to modify BIOS and resolve the problem "once for always" -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Old BIOS issue
Does there exist any DIY to fix "millennium bug" in old BIOS (no update available, unfortunately)? I mean "real fix, not workaround" - finding the proper cells in BIOS, modifying contents accordingly, burning... done -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] ssd on eeepc
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 11:48:25AM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > > I was just pondering whether it was possible to squeeze any sound out of > > that gear using the tool like this one http://www.georgpotthast.de/dossound/ > > or any other similar > > This is an AC97 driver which provides a special interface > to output sound. For sound with old games, you will instead > need something which provides a SoundBlaster simulation. > > Also, the EEE PC has ALC662 as sound chip, [..] Indeed - but I meant *just anything* that could be heard -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] ssd on eeepc
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 02:45:02AM +0200, Tomas By wrote: > > Did you have any Soundblaster-like sound on that gear? > > It just says "onboard audio" in the BIOS. > > Apparently the version I have is too old for copy to support the /S > switch, so was not able to test an old game I have. I was just pondering whether it was possible to squeeze any sound out of that gear using the tool like this one http://www.georgpotthast.de/dossound/ or any other similar -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] ssd on eeepc
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 02:05:58AM +0200, Tomas By wrote: > I did this a couple of years ago on an Eeepc 701, and I ended up with > only Freedos, after trying several Linux distributions. Cannot > remember details unfortunately. Did you have any Soundblaster-like sound on that gear? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] ssd on eeepc
On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 07:15:28PM -0400, dmccunney wrote: > > I was thinking of installing Linux Xubuntu for it's low resources. > > I did that on an ancient notebook that had a whopping *256MB* RAM. > Xubuntu would install, but performance left a lot to be desired. I recall the time when one could use Linux with Xwindow running on the gear equipped with 16 MB RAM... and even with KDE 1.0 it was swapping just sometimes. With IceWM or fvwm2 it was running smoothly -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] ssd on eeepc
On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:13:49PM +0100, Joao Silva wrote: > I have a eeepc laptop originally came with windows xp and i switched to > windows 10 N, but sadly is too slow... turtle mode. I was thinking of > installing Linux XUbuntu for it's low resources. > > A friend of my IT guy "is nagging" me a year now to get an ssd, so i was > thinking get one ssd 240, stick it to eeepc and install freedos. > > My issues are: > > 1 - Will freedos work well with atom cpu > 2 - Can freedos detect 2Gb of ram Yes and yes. > 3 - How to view the battery level and even if is possible to see or it's > more play until the battery is without of juice No idea. Maybe there does exist some kind of utility? Try to google for this. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140530070510AADqzXv=1_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLnBsLw_referrer_sig=AQAAABbcUSVdL4U_DvV8n3HeQgfCs8CcB2_L4cVFiL-1YKLKxZP9ck7e1sj4w4I66Y5CNI0JBoIVbmEw1YkGtGZlMu9lUt13QkyrlANodoczbfl026a4diYwn8PNuaFmfssjcmpCRV_ED7pz8E6tKzEjHh7Rs3iBMwo4xj4Ip714wZZr > Hoping that the laptop has a speaker... > > The idea is to carry the eeepc with me to play and to also to show my 7 > year old girlfriend nephew the games I played back in 1988 and forward. > > There is no need for big videos for intros or ends. It surely has a speaker (or at least socket for headphones), so the proper question is: "does it have a Soundblaster-compatible sound circuit inside?". And TBH I doubt this... -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] New to DOS - 486
On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 04:28:45PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > Of course there might be a few games which do use > acceleration features of the card, but for my first > PCI card, it was only the game which came bundled > with it :-) It actually depends on requirements; to me for most cases that (long gone) ISA Tseng would be "fast enough" - while I agree most probably I could have faster graphics using cheap Riva 128 on PCI/AGP (if I had such kind of slots in that 386 machine). Still for most "use cases" of DOS ISA will do. When having high requirements regarding efficiency of graphics system one has to use modern Windows-based system fitted with expensive NVidia accelerator, for instance. Which DOS system can beat it? When using DOS, I simply don't insist on having that many texels per second so much, you know. ;) Even more: it became kind of art to squeeze out of that old gear the things that seemed impossible "back in the day": https://trixter.oldskool.org/2014/06/20/8088-domination-post-mortem-conclusion/ -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] New to DOS - 486
On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 10:11:33AM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > Is that with EMM386 NOEMS option? I expect EMS 3.2 to > be rarely necessary and with NOEMS you can still use > EMS 4.0 which people often forget. With 64k extra UMB. I didn't write down the particular results and conditions - just noted the general rule: using more modern motherboards one gets 2-3 times less UMB (in the same conditions). > I would really recommend a PCI or PCIe graphics card > for DOS, at least AGP. Very few DOS applications know > how to use acceleration and ISA is REALLY slow in data > transfer. So the faster transfer of PCI etc. really > helps most DOS games. Also, VESA VBE BIOS is nice :-) Of course PCI bus is much faster, still even 16-bit ISA cards, if one uses good quality graphics adaptor, is "fast enough" for DOS applications. Recall that "landmark" in 3D gaming - "Ultima Underworld"? I remember that "back in the day" I was playing it on my 386DX40 fitted with that mentioned Tseng ET4000, and that graphics was smooth. "Wing Commander" on the same gear was unplayable, because it was... much too fast. In general if you mean these modern 3D games that indeed do require very fast graphics system, it is rather realm of Windows, not DOS. But for all these "Duke Nuke'm", "Doom", "Wolfenstein" etc. PCI-less machine will do. Of course combined ISA/PCI board won't hurt, since PCI/AGP graphics adaptors are not just faster, but (first of all) easier to get and much cheaper than ISA cards. > PS: Very interesting that your floppy controller from > the other thread DOES support two drives in Linux, but > not in DOS, as a possible BIOS issue. Yes, I filed a "bugreport" to ASRock a few days ago, but no response so far -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] New to DOS - 486
On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 12:45:46PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > Actually you can even find relatively modern quad core > computers with IDE :-) The problem is that when you want > DOS compatible sound hardware, you want something with > ISA slots and those went out of fashion 20 years ago. > > Also, while it is easy to use DOS on computers with SATA > (the BIOS will take care of disk I/O and there are drivers > for high-speed SATA I/O for DOS as well) it is very hard > to get non-ISA sound with games on DOS, unless PC Speaker > sound is okay for you and available on your hardware. I tested during last few days a few motherboards I had access to - and there's another possible issue: - the newer the mobo, the more likely it can use some part of "conventional memory" (first 640 KB) for its own purposes, like my ASRock mentioned in that other thread - the newer the motherboard, the more likely it'll offer less and less UMB, and I mean _really less_; my old VLB Soyo (SiS) mobo reports over 138 KB of UMB, while motherboard featuring Athlon64 offers only about 30 KB UMB So the best choice is old motherboard that still has at least one ISA slot present. > [..] > Regarding graphics, you can expect decent VGA compatibility > and even nice VESA BIOS until not so many years ago, but > there will often be mostly 4:3 resolutions, not 16:9 ones. > > But at least no worries about PCIe, AGP or PCI etc. bus :-) > I think RayeR put some tools online to speed up graphics RAM > access settings on PCI and PCIe in DOS. Try to avoid ISA VGA > cards, those are just too slow even for DOS gaming. If one uses 16-bit accelerated ISA cards (like TSENG ET4000) it doesn't have to be that bad. But they are difficult to find nowadays. > [..] > PS: Since I no longer use a mainboard which remembers ISA, > maybe *somebody else* would like to play with my collection > of special PCI soundcards which claim to support DOS games? Have a look at the thread "Using Yamaha the YMF744 under DOS without legacy/ISA addressing": https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=61256 The thing looks cumbersome and somewhat complicated, but still (in many cases, even if not always) feasible -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 07:36:04PM -0400, dmccunney wrote: > > http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/xt-cf-lite > > Not a solution for me. The XT clone is an *XT* clone. That's an IDE > CF Adaptor card, and the old XT clone doesn't have IDE slots. It > predates IDE. It's just its name - maybe not that accurate. According to creator it works with every XT -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 04:28:00PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > About your missing 10 kB: That might be extra driver > data, extra BIOS data, a virus, depends. Just telling > DOS to use them anyway will not be the solution. You > could use DEBUG to see what is in those 10 kB. I browsed memory using "debug" from 9000:d000 to 9000: - until 9000:d800 there is something that looks like FreeDOS' data, and higher than that zeros, a little bit (very seldom) "spoiled" by a few bytes here and there until 9000:dd20. Higher than that - only zeros. And no, it's not ROM; I was able to modify cells' contents. Maybe indeed something can be improved in memory management? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 07:19:46PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > > Hi again :-) > > >>> > >>> https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/1452/only-drive-a-detected-with-two-floppy-disk-drives > >> > >> It says controllers after 2003 tend to no longer support > >> more than one drive at the same time. From when is yours? > >> The computer mentioned on stackexchange is circa 2009. > > > > From what I see on the page > > http://www.asrock.com/mb/SiS/K7S8XE%20R3.0/?cat=Download=XP#BIOS > > the earliest BIOS update is from 2003/7/21, so around that "dangerous > > landmark", unfortunately > > ... > > >> So the menu actually DOES talk about TWO drives? > > > > Yes. > > Then there must be a way :-) > > > https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46=36942 > > Images are no longer available. > > > > https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/chinon-5-25-floppy-fz-506-jumpers.1942441/ > > > > https://nfggames.com/X68000/Documentation/Floppy%20Drives/Chinon/FZ06%20jumpers.pdf > > Thinking about the Drive Select jumpers: In 5.25inch > times, it was common to use cables which flipped a > few wires between both drives, so you had jumpered > BOTH drives to be "A:" but the one at the flipped > end of the cable would still get a different number. > > https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Njk0WDg5Mw==/z/AQoAAOSwYlRZLwkr/$_1.JPG?set_id=88500F > > https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41HYsKSB4ML.jpg > > Here is a schema what the flipping does: > > http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/images3/floppy_crossover_cable_wiring.jpg Yes, I understand that "flipping" cancels the need for different jumpering of two drives, but: - in my particular case "motor" is properly addressed; when I want to access drive selected as A:, its motor spins - and similarly trying to access B: - during my play with jumpers of course I was able to "spoil" the addressing to make both floppies spin (at the same time) during attempt to access drive A: - the problem is: it says "General failure" AFTER it spins B:drive's motor in supposed read attempt My conclusion is that drives are properly addressed, just data transfer from actual drive B: doesn't occur, probably -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 05:04:10PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > Any memory allocated BEFORE DOS starts will be shown as > "there is less than 640k of memory". For example extra > data used by BIOS extensions, a bootable MEMDISK, some > tools which load before DOS to provide LBA support on > computers with too old BIOS, certain viruses etc. > > If you want more UMB, just use EMM386 with the NOEMS > option to disable the 64k EMS 3.x page frame :-) You > will still be able to use EMS version 4 nevertheless. So I need to examine that part with debug. > DISPLAY needs more memory while loading than when > resident, so you could load it earlier when still > more UMB space is free. > > > > > https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/1452/only-drive-a-detected-with-two-floppy-disk-drives > > It says controllers after 2003 tend to no longer support > more than one drive at the same time. From when is yours? > The computer mentioned on stackexchange is circa 2009. >From what I see on the page >http://www.asrock.com/mb/SiS/K7S8XE%20R3.0/?cat=Download=XP#BIOS the earliest BIOS update is from 2003/7/21, so around that "dangerous landmark", unfortunately -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:15:04PM -0400, dmccunney wrote: > My old 32 bit desktop has a half height combo 3.5"/5.25" floppy drive. > It was originally seen as drives A: and B:, and which was seen as > which was controlled by a jumper setting on the drive. That went away > in an emergency motherboard replacement. The new mobo would see only > *one* of the drives as A:, and I had to pull the drive and change the > jumper setting if I wanted to access the 5.25" drive instead of the > 3.5" drive. Indeed it seems to be the same "feature". > The new machine doesn't have floppy slots on the mobo, so while I have > the drive I can't hook it up. I *do* have a USB 3.5" floppy drive > which is seen as A: when connected and works fine, but I have no > current way to access 5.25" diskettes. (I have some old stuff I'd > *like* to access) Yes, I had similar problem a few years ago... finally I just prepared long cables to connect big FDD as kind of "external drive". ;) > (For that matter, I still have my original XT clone on a shelf, with > two 20*MB* Seagate MFM hard drives where the drives do not have > onboard controllers and connect to a card on the mobo. I'd *love* the > get the contents of the drives copied to a USB flash drive, but > haven't found a way to do it.) A solution exists: http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/xt-cf-lite I also have two old XT mobos, going to fit them with this "modern HDD" :) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FDD issue
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 04:28:00PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > About your missing 10 kB: That might be extra driver > data, extra BIOS data, a virus, depends. Just telling > DOS to use them anyway will not be the solution. You > could use DEBUG to see what is in those 10 kB. You mean "extra driver data" not shown by "mem"? Or BIOS data within 640 KB? Also what I dislike in this mobo is modest amount of UMB. My old Soyo (ISA/VLB) offers about 140 KB of UMB, while this one just about 70 KB. Another thing is: that UMB area is somehow "mismanaged" here. For example: when I use EMS DISPLAY.SYS places his 12 KB into "conventional memory", although still almost 20 KB free in UMB is reported by "mem". Probably fragmented(?), or similar issue. > Your mainboard http://www.asrock.com/mb/SIS/K7S8XE/ > (AGP, AMD Socket 462) says "Floppy 1 connector" and > there are BIOS updates from 2004 for newer CPU and > some smaller fixes. > > https://download.asrock.com/Manual/K7S8XE.pdf > > does not show the submenu for floppy, so I wonder > whether you can configure the controller to use > two floppy disk drives at the same time there? Meanwhile I found description of probably the same issue: https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/1452/only-drive-a-detected-with-two-floppy-disk-drives So unfortunately it seems it's the "feature" and nothing can be done :( -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Where is my 10 KB?
And another riddle: "mem /c/p" on the motherboard I use (Asrock K7S8XE) shows just 630K of "Conventional memory"; of course it has consequence in "Largest available program size". Is it possible to somehow recover that "lost" 10 KB? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] FDD issue
Hello, completed lately my DOS machine with additional 1.2 MB 5,25" FDD for occasional use of my old diskettes. So I have 3,5" FDD as drive A: and 5,25" FDD as drive B: now. But there is a problem: I can only access the drive A: - never both drives on a whim. So to access 5,25" drive I have to "swap drives" in BIOS setup first, and only then I can read that bigger diskette. Every access attempt to diskette in actual drive B: - regardless whichever drive I selected as B: at the moment, that bigger or smaller one - results in "General failure reading drive B". So (momentary) drive A: = always OK, drive B: = always "general failure". Anyone met such strange problem and perhaps knows the solution? 5,25" floppy is a Chinon FR-506, verified its jumper settings, seems OK. Tried to play with these jumpers anyway, no desired effect -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] New to DOS - 486
On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 12:45:46PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote:
> Actually you can even find relatively modern quad core
> computers with IDE :-) The problem is that when you want
> DOS compatible sound hardware, you want something with
> ISA slots and those went out of fashion 20 years ago.
Yes, that's the best choice - but if not available, then more recent mobo
with chipset featuring DDMA ("Distributed DMA") also won't be that bad.
> There are a few PCI soundcards with limited DOS support:
> Some come with drivers which simulate a SoundBlaster, but
> those do not work with protected mode games, while others
> use hardware tricks which only work on mainboard chipsets
> which still have a bit of ISA style even while the boards
> have no have actual ISA slots.
That "bit of ISA style" is called DDMA.
Probably the best choice among a few PCI-soundcards working under DOS will
be Yamaha YMF-724/744.
More about this:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=48553
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46=48133#p497926
--
regards,
Zbigniew
___
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Re: [Freedos-user] Some networking present
On Mon, Sep 07, 2020 at 07:48:33PM +0200, Mateusz Viste wrote: > They are indeed - I've spent more nights than I can count debugging EtherDFS > and EthFlop while battling with random freezes, memory corruptions, suddenly > hanging games and such. TSRs are truly a toxic environment. But it's part of > the challenge, after all. ...provided that such programming work required for networking is appealing to the DOS hobbyist, of course ;) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Some networking present
On Sun, Sep 06, 2020 at 02:07:43PM -0400, dmccunney wrote: > See http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Networking_FreeDOS_-_NTCPDRV Thanks, I can see there confirmation it's free for personal use: #v+ Licensing issues on this site are kept short and simple: "These DOS applications are provided free without support." Thanks to the popularity of the trumpet software, it can be downloaded from various mirrors. A commercial version of the TCP driver is available from Peter Tattams new company "Tattam Software Enterprises #v- As "not free" are listed (on Tattam Software Enterprises' pages) the versions for various Windows versions -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Some networking present
On Sun, Sep 06, 2020 at 07:52:05PM +0200, Mateusz Viste wrote: > And the Trumpet TSR itself does not appear to be free: > http://www.trumpet.com.au/index.php/products/tcpip-driver.html >From what I see there it's paid only for >=10 units (so probably in case of "corporate use" or similar) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Some networking present
On Sun, Sep 06, 2020 at 06:43:34PM +0200, Mateusz Viste wrote: > Trumpet is a networking TSR, while Wattcp, Watt-32 and mTCP are libraries > embedded into the executable. Completely different approaches. Perhaps it could be feasible to improve the programs to make them follow such simple algorithm: 1. Let's find out, maybe Trumpet TSR offers its services? 2. If it's present, connect using Trumpet... 3. ...else use embedded libraries. Such way they could work either way -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Some networking present
On Sun, Sep 06, 2020 at 03:49:41PM +0200, Mateusz Viste wrote: > Sounds good indeed. Is FDNPKG or Gopherus working as well? They rely on > Watt-32 and Wattcp, respectively. The latter does not have DHCP support > IIRC. Now it sounds even better: after I downloaded newest versions of mTCP package from http://www.brutman.com/mTCP/mTCP.html it works as well. Gopherus works (although still it wants to configure network, that already has been configured using mTCP's DHCP; so it seems Gopherus doesn't do any detection "do I already have network acccessibler?" at all), FDNPKG seems to be working too. So both programs seem to dislike Trumpet TCP (different API?) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Some networking present
On Sun, Sep 06, 2020 at 03:49:41PM +0200, Mateusz Viste wrote: > Sounds good indeed. Is FDNPKG or Gopherus working as well? They rely on > Watt-32 and Wattcp, respectively. The latter does not have DHCP support > IIRC. No, they don't work with my configuration. Although I have network "up and running" - FDNPKG instead of detecting working TCP stack tries three ways of configuration: through BOOTP, then throught DHCP and finally through RARP - and then gives up. Gopherus insists on DHCP - and, of course, gives up also. Probably both programs aren't going to cooperate with Trumpet TCP - and "thinking" there's no network yet they try to configure it -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] No network
On Sat, Sep 05, 2020 at 11:53:42PM +, Deposite Pirate wrote: > September 6, 2020 1:40 AM, "ZB" wrote: > > - loads 3c5x9pd.com packet driver > > The latest/newer version of 3c5x9pd.com doesn't work. You have to get the > older one. Not sure is it the last - but it works (so maybe not that latest one anyway); the problem is from the two stacks I tried only Trumpet works; mTCP (the one by M. Brutman) doesn't seem to be willing to cooperate. Or maybe too old version - I'll try the newer ones -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Some networking present
Partial success - it turned out I was expecting too much. I still cannot rely on the tools shipped with FreeDOS (I mean the ones by M. Brutman) - but some of the utilities from that old Trumpet 2.01 package seem to work, just they are (compared to Linux tools) rather cumbersome, that's why I thought ping2 didn't work, while in fact it works - just quite differently. Anyway I was able to ping and to log into FTP server - so I can assume network is present -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] No network
Trying to do some networking from within FreeDOS - no luck so far. I'm using 3C509 ISA networking adaptor. It went just fine all the test using its testing utility, it autoconfigured with no complainings, and when I run batch file that loaded packet drivers the LED diode on my router went lit, so I assume there's no problem neither with adaptor nor with cable. I created a small batch file that: - loads 3c5x9pd.com packet driver - sets IP, GATEWAY, NETMASK, DOMAIN, DNS, MSS, RWIN for Trumpet (NTCPDRV.EXE) and runs it, of course ...and even added "just for reason" MTCPCFG into environment, poiting to a file containing the same set of addresses After I run that batch file all the messages on the screen seem promising, no errors reported. Unfortunately, unable to even PING anything. Although ping2.exe from Trumpet package seems to be trying to send packets, nothing returns. DHCP can't get a lease from router - that's why I created "static" configuration. No tools for diagnotics, no idea what may be wrong. Any suggestions? I tried even that older Trumpet - no difference. Using kernel dated for 07.02.2012 (kernel.sys has 45494 bytes) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Dosemu on its own - does it exist?
On Thu, Sep 03, 2020 at 12:52:32PM -0400, dmccunney wrote: > What you are talking about are full blown Virtual Machine setups. The > VM sits between the host machine's hardware and the OS to be > virtualized. Examples in the commercial software world include things > like VMWare Actually I was hoping it could be "thinner layer"... but, as I wrote, only know I'm trying to find out, how exactly "virtual x86 mode" works -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Dosemu on its own - does it exist?
On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 04:23:47PM +0200, Mateusz Viste wrote: > I wonder how far one could get with just an emulated 8086 core, 640K of > mapped memory and a simulated BIOS. At the moment I know next to nothing about that "virtual x86 mode" - and I was hoping that CPU can be made to switch to that mode and then to boot even different OS into each "instance" -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Dosemu on its own - does it exist?
On Wed, Sep 02, 2020 at 03:56:26PM +0200, Mateusz Viste wrote: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DESQview Indeed I recall that name - but somehow never used it before. Does it do exactly what I've described? Like - for example - I could "split" 486 into four x86 CPUs, then I can use one instance to boot FreeDOS there, the second one to boot DOS 6.22 (for comparison), the third one for, say, DR-DOS etc. -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Dosemu on its own - does it exist?
If I'm correct, Dosemu uses "virtual x86 mode" of 386 and later processors. But Dosemu of course needs "host OS". I wonder does there exist any utility that offers "virtual x86 mode" and acts as "host" by itself? Suppose we have (quite modest for today) computer with 386/486 and 4 MB RAM. Theoretically it should be possible to run quite comfortably four DOS "instances" each one having 1 MB just for itself - and, say, switching among them with - like among consoles in Linux. So concentrating on using DOS - because 486 is much too "weak" for Linux of today - I mean utility whose duty is just to switch CPU into "virtual x86 mode", split RAM among established "instances" and then just share hardware resources (keyboard, CD-ROM, video, sound... everything) among them. No idea - maybe it had been aleady created, just I didn't stumble upon it yet? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] A few suggestions to improve debug
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 09:16:54PM -0500, Jon Brase wrote: > Recall that FreeDOS isn't just about having a FOSS alternative to MS-DOS > for modern machines (where you're really better off just using Linux and > DOSBox), or for your early-90s 486 retrogaming machine, it's also meant > to be an alternative to MS-DOS for the very oldest PC hardware, all the > way back to the original IBM 5150. The core software might therefore be > expected to work in very little RAM. As I recall, the minimum configuration > for the 5150 had only 16k of RAM. Do you mean FreeDOS should be "alternative to PC-DOS V1.0"? And it should be kept in such (supposed) miserable state? I still have somewhere diskette with PC-DOS V2 - it wasn't interesting experience, compared to - say - DOS V3.34. No, I don't think FreeDOS should be "alternative to MS-DOS for the very oldest PC hardware, all the way back to the original IBM 5150". If it can be run on old XT with 256 KB RAM - then IMHO "it's compatible enough" -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] A few suggestions to improve debug
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 05:07:14PM -0400, dmccunney wrote: > One of the most popular was Chris Dunford's CED. The following from > the CED docs is relevant: Thanks, I'll try to examine it. Still my suggestion is to make all these tools of FreeDOS, that offer command line - better. There's really no valid reason _not_ to use these few keys present on every PC's keyboard. Neither there was any in the past as well - as I think about this today maybe "command history" had to be invented, but why MS$ didn't order their programmers to make use out of that keys too - no idea. Maybe simply "because those utilities were still usable with poor quality command-line". Not that convincing rationale considering rather modest overhead necessary -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] A few suggestions to improve debug
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 12:40:34PM -0700, Ralf Quint wrote: > If you are trying to keep 20 lines in the "history" and even assuming you > limit the length of an entry line to 40 characters, that's already 800 > bytes, just for the buffer space... ...IN RAM, not in program code. :) > But in any case, FreeDOS DEBUG is open source, so feel free to try and add > this and see how much work it is (and if it is worth the effort)... ;-) I'm still learning - that's why use debug. But even if you think it's not worthy - maybe the others think it is, anyway? It was my suggestion, not "an order" -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] A few suggestions to improve debug
One more I'm less interested in, but maybe it would be useful for the others? I mean assuming we have full control over cursor movement as already described - the "Ins" key could be a switch between default "insert" and alternative "overwrite" mode (if not too complicated to implement) -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] A few suggestions to improve debug
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 08:11:48PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > Mercury also suggests Ctrl-Arrow for word-wise cursor movements. Alternatively we could use PgUp/PgDn for this, which aren't used (and probably won't be used for anything) by debug. This could have advantage of "Control" not being involved at all -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] A few suggestions to improve debug
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 08:11:48PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > It can harm if you do batch processing. And WHY do you perform "r" > at the start? I always only look at "r" AFTER doing things which > will have sent interesting data to the registers, NOT before. Just realized it's an old habit :D if you were ever using C-64, perhaps you were also using "SMON" monitor ( https://www.c64-wiki.de/wiki/SMON ) it does that on automatic. And in my C-64 times (which actually still didn't find their definite end ;) it was a monitor I was using most of the time. I'm not sure, but probably a program can distinguish whether it's in "interactive mode" or used for batch processing? -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] A few suggestions to improve debug
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:10:56AM -0700, Ralf Quint wrote: > On 8/31/2020 10:44 AM, ZB wrote: > > 1. I believe it would be handy if it could immediately after its start > >perform 'r' (show registers' contents). Usually we're going to have > >a look at that first when using "debug". Even if we aren't - having > >these two lines on the screen immediately after start won't do any harm. > > > > 2. It could keep "history" for last, say. twenty-thirty command-line entries > >(available as usual with Up/Down keys). > > > > 3. Its command line should recognize "movement keys" just like command.com > >does, I mean Home/End should move cursor to beginning and end current > >entry, Left/Right also for movement (presently Right does just "latest > >entry" while Left is redundant "Backspace" copy) and Del should "eat" > >characters "right from the cursor" (the usual "Del way"). > > > > Just basic stuff. Actually I believe that EVERY utility that offers command > > line entry should act like I described in points 2 and 3. Why not use these > > keys we have present on every PC keyboard - for easier and faster editing? > > Well, I am not sure that this is such a good idea. A lot of those command > line tools are also capable of being used in an interactive mode, DEBUG for > example can be fed instructions to create small/tiny .COM programs via > assembler instructions. Indeed I'm talking exactly about its interactive mode. > A second issue is that a lot of those tools are created for low resource > environment, so adding all those editing features to it can increase the > size of their executables. Beside that you can easily get to the point where > it makes more sense to use a bigger, more "advanced" program with things > like full screen editing in the first place. My estimation is it'll "cost" from 200 to 500 bytes more - and, please note, we aren't talking about "adding bloat", but about making command line more useful and comfortable. Why these keys should stay "dead"? Let's use them! -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
