Re: [VOTE] Release Candidate JMeter 2.3 RC1 - abandoned
From looking at Struts SVN, I'm guessing that they're built and then tagged from a revision of trunk and then that tag is voted on for quality. Maybe one of the Struts/Tomcat committers can explain how they do it? Ted, Don? On 7/9/07, sebb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09/07/07, Dion Gillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sebb, one of the things I find useful about the build process that httpd, Struts, Tomcat etc use is that it means anyone can do a build and then call for a vote on it's quality. If this process is streamlined enough, it means feedback can be extracted from people more often and issues discovered earlier. I know this isn't how things are done ATM with jakarta, but it's worth thinking about. I have been making regular nightly builds available, however it was only when I created a formal build and called for a vote that various issues surfaced. So yes, it could be useful in future. Do these quality check builds have to be tagged in SVN? Or can they just be built from the current code line? On 7/9/07, sebb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 04/07/07, sebb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've created JMeter 2.3 RC1 in the directory: http://people.apache.org/~sebb/jmeter-2.3/dist Site/Docs are here: http://people.apache.org/~sebb/jmeter-2.3/site All feedback welcome. [ ]+1 - the release candidate looks OK, proceed with full release [ ]-1 - there is a problem (please indicate what it is) Various problems have been found in the release, so I won't be proceeding with it. Thanks for all the feedback so far, which has been very useful. I have been able to fix most of the reported problems, but there are still some outstanding. sebb AT apache DOT org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- dIon Gillard Rule #131 of Acquisition: Information is Profit. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- dIon Gillard Rule #131 of Acquisition: Information is Profit.
Re: [VOTE] Release Candidate JMeter 2.3 RC1 - abandoned
sebb, one of the things I find useful about the build process that httpd, Struts, Tomcat etc use is that it means anyone can do a build and then call for a vote on it's quality. If this process is streamlined enough, it means feedback can be extracted from people more often and issues discovered earlier. I know this isn't how things are done ATM with jakarta, but it's worth thinking about. On 7/9/07, sebb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 04/07/07, sebb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've created JMeter 2.3 RC1 in the directory: http://people.apache.org/~sebb/jmeter-2.3/dist Site/Docs are here: http://people.apache.org/~sebb/jmeter-2.3/site All feedback welcome. [ ]+1 - the release candidate looks OK, proceed with full release [ ]-1 - there is a problem (please indicate what it is) Various problems have been found in the release, so I won't be proceeding with it. Thanks for all the feedback so far, which has been very useful. I have been able to fix most of the reported problems, but there are still some outstanding. sebb AT apache DOT org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- dIon Gillard Rule #131 of Acquisition: Information is Profit.
Re: Announce: Commons-IO 1.3.2
Woohoo! Thanks for all the hard work Jochen. On 7/4/07, Jochen Wiedmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, the Jakarta Commons Team (or Apache Commons Team, nowadays) is glad to announce the release of Commons IO 1.3.2. Commons IO is a library of low-level utilities to assist with developing IO functionality. This is a bug fix release with the following changes: - Some tests, which are implicitly assuming a Unix-like file system, are now skipped on Windows. Fixes IO-115. - Created the FileCleaningTracker, basically a non-static version of the FileCleaner, which can be controlled by the user. Fixes IO-116. - EndianUtils - both readSwappedUnsignedInteger(...) methods could return negative numbers due to int/long casting. Fixes IO-117. Thanks to Hiroshi Ikeda. Commons-IO 1.3.2 is available from http://jakarta.apache.org/site/downloads/downloads_commons-io.cgi Jochen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- dIon Gillard Rule #131 of Acquisition: Information is Profit.
Re: [VOTE] Release Candidate JMeter 2.3 RC1
Sebb, Just checking is this a vote to release 2.3RC1 from this location or to release 2.3 from this bundle? On 7/4/07, sebb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've created JMeter 2.3 RC1 in the directory: http://people.apache.org/~sebb/jmeter-2.3/dist Site/Docs are here: http://people.apache.org/~sebb/jmeter-2.3/site All feedback welcome. [ ]+1 - the release candidate looks OK, proceed with full release [ ]-1 - there is a problem (please indicate what it is) sebb AT apache DOT org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- dIon Gillard Rule #131 of Acquisition: Information is Profit.
Re: [VOTE] Commons moving to TLP
I think there's another issue here. Many of those who voted +1, aren't on the initial list of committers in the proposal. Also, many current commons committers aren't on the proposed list. It seems that we're not voting on that specific proposal, rather just the idea to move, and that a lot of people are being disenfranchised by not being listed. Wouldn't it be better if the initial list came from the svn acl? On 5/23/07, Niall Pemberton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/8/07, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sadly a bit too late to make the next board meeting I suspect. However, here's a vote for Commons to officially request that it move to TLP. http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-commons/TLPResolution Please add your name if you're a Commons developer and haven't added your name yet. [ ] +1 I support the proposal [ ] +0 I don't care [ ] -1 I'm opposed to the proposal because... Voting will close in one week. Quick summary of this thread 28 Votes for (23 binding), 4 against (3 binding). Seems to me that those objecting don't seem to have pursuaded people to change their vote. At what point do we decide on a result? Votes +1 (* indicates binding) 1. Henri Yandell(*) 2. Dennis Lundberg(*) 3. Mladen Turk(*) 4. Torsten Curdt(*) 5. Oliver Heger(*) 6. Robert Burrell Donkin(*) 7. Stephen Colebourne(*) 8. Daniel F. Savarese(*) 9. Martin Cooper(*) 10. Mark Thomas(*) 11. Niall Pemberton(*) 12. Stefan Bodewig(*) 13. Phil Steitz(*) 14. Jörg Schaible(*) 15. Jean-Frederic(*) 16. Henning Schmiedehausen(*) (conditional on The TLP proposal matching the template) 17. Nick Burch 18. Davanum Srinivas(*) 19. Thomas Vandahl 20. Oliver Zeigermann(*) 21. Rony G. Flatscher(*) 22. Scott Eade(*) 23. Yegor Kozlov 24. Luc Maisonobe 25. Mario Ivankovits(*) 26. Roland Weber(*) 27. Andrew Oliver(*) (think this was a vote for, voted -1 to Commons=Jakarta) 28. Jesse Kuhnert Added themselves to the TLP Proposal but didn't vote(?) 1. Jochen Wiedmann 2. Martin van den Bemt(*) 3. Matt Benson 4. Rory Winston(*) 5. Joerg Pietschmann Objections / Votes -1 = 1. Petar Tahchiev - sees no direct benfits for Commons 2. Ted Husted(*) - Strike Java from resolution or don't hijack Commons Name 3. Simon Kitching(*) - Will erect walls we took down - like Ted doesn't want java to monopolise commons name 4. Danny Angus(*) - preserve the Jakarta brand - Wants Jkarata==Jakarta Commons - thinks Commons should sort out Jakarta problems Bile Nonsense === Jean Carlo Salas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- dIon Gillard Rule #131 of Acquisition: Information is Profit. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Commons moving to TLP
On 5/23/07, Niall Pemberton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/23/07, Dion Gillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think there's another issue here. Many of those who voted +1, aren't on the initial list of committers in the proposal. Also, many current commons committers aren't on the proposed list. Yup thats disappointing. Maybe not all of them follow general@ - I'm crossposting. It seems that we're not voting on that specific proposal, rather just the idea to move, and that a lot of people are being disenfranchised by not being listed. Its down to people to add themselves to the TLP resolution (they were invited to do so) - if people are disenfranchised then its their own choice. I don't know about that. It seems that a discussion and proposal taking place on a different list isn't being as inclusive as we should be. Wouldn't it be better if the initial list came from the svn acl? Would seem wrong to put people on the list without their consent. It would also seem wrong to 'remove' someone's commit access to the code by moving it to a TLP without at least keeping the dev list informed. Niall On 5/23/07, Niall Pemberton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/8/07, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sadly a bit too late to make the next board meeting I suspect. However, here's a vote for Commons to officially request that it move to TLP. http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-commons/TLPResolution Please add your name if you're a Commons developer and haven't added your name yet. [ ] +1 I support the proposal [ ] +0 I don't care [ ] -1 I'm opposed to the proposal because... Voting will close in one week. Quick summary of this thread 28 Votes for (23 binding), 4 against (3 binding). Seems to me that those objecting don't seem to have pursuaded people to change their vote. At what point do we decide on a result? Votes +1 (* indicates binding) 1. Henri Yandell(*) 2. Dennis Lundberg(*) 3. Mladen Turk(*) 4. Torsten Curdt(*) 5. Oliver Heger(*) 6. Robert Burrell Donkin(*) 7. Stephen Colebourne(*) 8. Daniel F. Savarese(*) 9. Martin Cooper(*) 10. Mark Thomas(*) 11. Niall Pemberton(*) 12. Stefan Bodewig(*) 13. Phil Steitz(*) 14. Jörg Schaible(*) 15. Jean-Frederic(*) 16. Henning Schmiedehausen(*) (conditional on The TLP proposal matching the template) 17. Nick Burch 18. Davanum Srinivas(*) 19. Thomas Vandahl 20. Oliver Zeigermann(*) 21. Rony G. Flatscher(*) 22. Scott Eade(*) 23. Yegor Kozlov 24. Luc Maisonobe 25. Mario Ivankovits(*) 26. Roland Weber(*) 27. Andrew Oliver(*) (think this was a vote for, voted -1 to Commons=Jakarta) 28. Jesse Kuhnert Added themselves to the TLP Proposal but didn't vote(?) 1. Jochen Wiedmann 2. Martin van den Bemt(*) 3. Matt Benson 4. Rory Winston(*) 5. Joerg Pietschmann Objections / Votes -1 = 1. Petar Tahchiev - sees no direct benfits for Commons 2. Ted Husted(*) - Strike Java from resolution or don't hijack Commons Name 3. Simon Kitching(*) - Will erect walls we took down - like Ted doesn't want java to monopolise commons name 4. Danny Angus(*) - preserve the Jakarta brand - Wants Jkarata==Jakarta Commons - thinks Commons should sort out Jakarta problems Bile Nonsense === Jean Carlo Salas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- dIon Gillard Rule #131 of Acquisition: Information is Profit. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Commons moving to TLP
Stephen, I think Sebb does have a valid point. Using CLI as an example, I'm not sure that there is a shared sense of responsibility for it. CLI 1.x has had an issue open against it since 2006-03 with only recent activity on it, and Henri's comment in that issue from 2007-03 (CLI is still pretty much a dead commons component. No one's actively working on it.) is damning evidence. On 5/23/07, Stephen Colebourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message From: sebb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do all the Commons sub-projects have sufficient numbers ot committers to justify them remaining in Commons? For example CLI has not even had a formal release yet and has been far less active than JMeter, but is still protected by being in Commons. Commons components are not the equivalent of Jakarta sub-projects. That is a key factor as to why commons can continue to function, when Jakarta has died. The difference is that everyone is responsible for everything in Commons, whereas in Jakarta people only take responsibility for their own area. Now, thats not to say that every Commons developer cares equally about every Commons component, but there is a strong sense of shared responsibility. Anyone can review/support/oppose a commit/idea/release. Thus, your original question re CLI doesn't really apply in the same way. Stephen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- dIon Gillard Rule #131 of Acquisition: Information is Profit. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Move Turbine to TLP
On 4/29/07, Scott Eade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Turbine project has been discussing a proposal to the board that the Turbine projects leave the Jakarta umbrella and become their own top level project. We are now at the point in the process that calls for a vote to take place. The proposal is available at: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-turbine/TLPTurbine For the interested, most of the discussion took place in the following thread: http://www.nabble.com/-DISCUSS--TLP--tf3574436.html Here are the vote options: [ ] +1 I support the proposal [ ] +0 I don't care [ ] -1 I'm opposed to the proposal because... Voting will close in one week. +1 From me. Thanks, Scott - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- dIon Gillard Rule #131 of Acquisition: Information is Profit. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Move Jakarta Cactus/JMeter to new Testing TLP
+1. It could also be a home to latka, which is out of place here in jakarta-commons. On 4/21/06, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The options are: [X] +1 I am favorable to the move and would like to contribute to the new TLP [ ] +1 I am favorable to the move but would not be participating in the new TLP [ ] +0 it does not matter to me [ ] -1 I am against it because Same motivation as Yoav and Rahul.. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.multitask.com.au/people/dion/ Chuck Norris sleeps with a night light. Not because Chuck Norris is afraid of the dark, but because the dark is afraid of Chuck Norris
Re: Jakarta embracing the JCP?
Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 20/03/2004 08:52:35 AM: [snip] We already effectively have Expert Groups, we call them the PMC. Project Leads, aka active-voice on the project/component. I'm not sure it hurts for us to have a project-lead on things, in fact I think it's something Apache should have. Defined responsibility. I've seen this 'defined responsibility' drive people away from projects. I've also seen projects with a strong leader wallow as their leader has gone off and started something new and more fun. Bugs lie unfixed and the software stagnates. Having multiple people share the load is a far better model, IMHO. People view this as anti-community, but I think it's pro-community. Who is responsible to the community for Tomcat 3 at the moment? The community? That seems like we're kidding ourselves. The ASF-way merely means that it's easy to fill a project-lead gap, or to join in. Not that the project-leads don't exist. [snip] -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Re: [ANN] Tapestry 3.0 rc1 released
Was there a vote for it? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Harish Krishnaswamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 17/03/2004 11:55:38 PM: Tapestry 3.0 Release Candidate 1 has been released. -Harish - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] HiveMind as a Jakarta sub-project
Geir Magnusson Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/03/2004 01:58:41 AM: [X] +1 I support this proposal [ ] -1 I don't support this proposal [ ] 0 I abstain from voting for or against this proposal -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
RE: Proposal: Jakarta HiveMind Project
Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 03/03/2004 10:50:44 AM: Howard, To be clear, this is a proposal to move HiveMind out of Commons Sandbox into Jakarta proper? Correct? Just to address some of the infrastructure questions that will come up if this is approved: HiveMind represents a generous donation of code to the ASF by WebCT (3) Identify any Jakarta resources to be created (3.1) mailing lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pretty standard fare. We'll need some additional information, such as moderators, etc. See http://www.apache.org/dev/project-creation-form.txt. (3.2) CVS repositories The package shall use a root branch of the jakarta-hivemind CVS repository. Not Subversion? Is there a pressing reason to go subversion? Are we svn 1.0 capable at this point? From what I can tell the IDE tools (e.g. subclipse) haven't been updated for the 1.0 release yet. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Re: Apache License 2.0 came into effect
If all licenses must be updated by March 1st 2004, you'd better get us some using instructions really quickly, e.g. what goes in Copyright [] [name of copyright owner] for all our existing code? Will someone need to look up the original author and all updaters in CVS? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/ Tetsuya Kitahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 24/01/2004 12:01:01 PM: Hello, Jakarta-Folks, Just a note (but very important) ++ brief summary ++ The Board has approved the new Apache License 2.0. For a copy of that license, please see http://www.apache.org/licenses/. The Board has also mandated that all ASF software must be switched to the new license by March 1st, 2004. Please watch this space for further instructions on how to use the new license. - ++ description ++ The 2.0 version of the Apache License was approved by the ASF (The Board has approved the new Apache License 2.0) in 2004. The goals of this license revision have been to reduce the number of frequently asked questions, to allow the license to be reusable without modification by any project (including non-ASF projects), to allow the license to be included by reference instead of listed in every file, to clarify the license on submission of contributions, to require a patent license on contributions that necessarily infringe the contributor's own patents, and to move comments regarding Apache and other inherited attribution notices to a location outside the license terms (the NOTICE file [1]). The result is a license that is compatible with other open source licenses, such as the GPL, and yet still remains true to the original goals of the Apache Group and supportive of collaborative development across both nonprofit and commercial organizations. All packages produced by the ASF will be implicitly licensed under the Apache License, version 2.0, unless otherwise explicitly stated. For more information, see Apache Licenses Page [2] [1] - http://www.apache.org/licenses/example-NOTICE.txt [2] - http://www.apache.org/licenses/ - You can also read this above from here: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/elsewhere.html#20040121.1 Sincerely, - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache License 2.0 came into effect
Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 29/01/2004 02:02:05 AM: The ASF is the copyright holder.. Not exclusively. The original author also retains copyright to any works as well, AFAIK. Btw just moved a codehaus project to use v 2.0 :) Mvgr, Martin -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Release of Commons HttpClient 2.0 Beta 1
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Congratulations, Mike and all of HttpClient team. When will it be relected to ibiblio? It's now up there... And (IMHO) it is better to rewrite http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/httpclient/downloads.html dependency idcommons-httpclient/id version2.0-alpha3/version urlhttp://jakarta.apache.org/commons/httpclient//url /dependency to dependency idcommons-httpclient/id version2.0-beta1/version urlhttp://jakarta.apache.org/commons/httpclient//url /dependency dIon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta-site access PMC membership for howard lewis ship
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 30/05/2003 12:01:15 AM: I'd like to propose that Howard Lewis Ship be given jakarta-site access and +1 I hereby nominate him for the Jakarta PMC. +1 -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
.htaccess and Redirect's
The redirect in the /turbine directory for Maven's move to top level seems to be failing. The .htaccess file contains this line: Redirect permanent /turbine/maven/ http://maven.apache.org/ But requests to http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/ result in a 404. Does anyone have any ideas?? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
redirect for /turbine/maven to maven.apache.org/
Does anyone know how/where this redirect can be set up? I'm assuming it's in the httpd.conf of the web server on daedalus. Is this even remotely close? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: turbine cvs and mailing lists?
Maven has now moved out of Turbine and Jakarta. See http://maven.apache.org. The cvs module is 'maven'. The user lists are [EMAIL PROTECTED] All this and more on the web site. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 26/03/2003 08:04:44 AM: Hello, I'm sorry to bug you all about this but I can't seem to check out any of the turbine modules (maven was the one I was originaly after) from apache cvs server. I checked out lucene and ojb and tomcat just to be sure it wasn't just me. What's up? The mailing list seems broken too. I keep getting this when I try to subscribe : Return-Path: Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 71814 invoked by uid 85); 25 Mar 2003 20:47:38 - Received: from daedalus.apache.org (HELO apache.org) (208.185.179.12) by mail.cegep-ra.qc.ca with SMTP; 25 Mar 2003 20:47:37 - Received: (qmail 39453 invoked for bounce); 25 Mar 2003 20:41:59 - Date: 25 Mar 2003 20:41:59 - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: failure notice X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-10 Hi. This is the qmail-send program at apache.org. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 39414 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2003 20:41:59 - Received: from mail.cegep-ra.qc.ca (206.167.23.164) by daedalus.apache.org with SMTP; 25 Mar 2003 20:41:59 - Received: (qmail 71791 invoked by uid 85); 25 Mar 2003 20:47:26 - Received: from nat178-001.cegep-ra.qc.ca (HELO TGLMB) (206.167.178.1) by mail.cegep-ra.qc.ca with SMTP; 25 Mar 2003 20:47:25 - Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: David Salib [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: David Salib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:41:32 -0600 Organization: Coll|ege de la region de l'Amiante MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-10 X-Spam-Rating: daedalus.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N Does anybody know what's wrong? -- David Salib - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/03/2003 01:51:36 AM: I nominate Sam Ruby whom I sometimes, often would be too strong of a word, disagree with but always respect his integrity and belief in community-based software development. I too would like to see some changes, but Sam has outlined, several times, most of the changes that I'd actually like to see. The remainder of which, I'm not certain that the Jakarta community of the whole has control over. One change I do not wish to see are projects which specifically exclude Apache/Jakarta members due to the cult of personality of one of its participants, even its prinicipal participant. Personally, I mark my graduation from pre-pubescence not on any biological definition rather the day that I learned to work in close quarters with those whom my personality or personal philosophy disagreed with or to extract myself from the situation rather than the other way around. Could you please elaborate on how these projects have achieved these aims under the current PMC? I'm very interested in where Apache/Jakarta members have been/are currently excluded, and how the new PMC will stop this from happening. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/03/2003 10:24:53 AM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/03/2003 01:51:36 AM: I nominate Sam Ruby whom I sometimes, often would be too strong of a word, disagree with but always respect his integrity and belief in community-based software development. I too would like to see some changes, but Sam has outlined, several times, most of the changes that I'd actually like to see. The remainder of which, I'm not certain that the Jakarta community of the whole has control over. One change I do not wish to see are projects which specifically exclude Apache/Jakarta members due to the cult of personality of one of its participants, even its prinicipal participant. Personally, I mark my graduation from pre-pubescence not on any biological definition rather the day that I learned to work in close quarters with those whom my personality or personal philosophy disagreed with or to extract myself from the situation rather than the other way around. Could you please elaborate on how these projects have achieved these aims under the current PMC? I'm very interested in where Apache/Jakarta members have been/are currently excluded, and how the new PMC will stop this from happening. Given the context, I can only presume that Andy was referring to emails such as this one [1]. If I am incorrect, I expect Andy will correct me. Given [2] and [3], I would have thought it reasonably obvious that this was not intended for public review, and that Jason was unusually stressed by family events. This is the second time that particular email has been referenced without context, which I find a little inconsiderate to both Nicola and Jason, given the cirumstances. But anyways, Jason is not a project (James is :) ), and, as on most other jakarta projects, one person doesn't make the decisions. Personality conflicts and that one person doesn't 'get along' with another is something that we all learn to deal with in real life. That it happens @ Apache should be of no great surprise. I don't expect the Jakarta Project, or the ASF, to be perfect, and will work around the issues that crop up. Other people will do what they see as right. How will the new PMC stop this from happening? I have not specified a timetable for this change to occur (I am being very careful and deliberate in the evolotion of the current structure of Jakarta to conform to the wishes of the ASF board), but the direction Jakarta is heading is to make the release votes of any software from Jakarta to be the purvue of the PMC. In other words, only PMC members can issue binding votes on such matters. Note that such votes are by design majority votes, so are not subject to veto. What does this mean, exactly? That if the Jakarta PMC doesn't like the behaviour of one person on a project, they will veto the release of software that the person was involved in creating? I'm hoping I misunderstand you on this. [2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=104448423329090w=2 [3] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=104448469829716w=2 -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another unused import statement report is out...
Tom, how are you working out the LOC for Maven? I count approx 280 .java files in the source tree and at 4066 loc, that makes approx 15 loc per file. Either we're really efficient, or there's something being missed. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Tom Copeland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 27/02/2003 06:57:50 AM: unused imports are down 40% since last November, crikey! http://cvs.apache.org/~tcopeland/jakarta_bad_imports.htm Past reports can be found here - http://cvs.apache.org/~tcopeland/, and mad props to the xml-xalan project, who went from 1421 unused imports to 2 in the last month. Yours, Tom Copeland InfoEther 703-486-4543 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RESULT] Release 2.3
Howard M. Lewis Ship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 24/02/2003 12:46:21 AM: I'd love to do it this way, but its not clear to me how. Things have NOT been happening in terms of incubation. Bug list has not been set up. The procedures for being a Jakarta project aren't written down ... it seems to be e-oral tradition. I'll agree there's not a lot written down and documented. But there are lots of people who've been 'Release Manager' recently who are contactable via email and lists. There's also this: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/guides.html Maybe we should start with a list of things to do from the incubation-not-happening angle. A bugzilla or Scarab admin is needed, yes? From http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?TapestryToDo, there appear to be quite a few issues to be resolved before a release, including the distribution of mckoi gpl jars from CVS ( http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-tapestry/lib/ext/mckoidb-0.94h.jar ) I'm also waiting to find out about Maven; we may want to reorganize our directory structure to support Maven in the short term and Forrest (for Tapestry site documentation) in the medium term. with Maven we'd have nightly builds, and there would be no reason to create so many alpha builds. Gump is also on the todo list, for nightly build processing. I can help with Maven reorg. I'm not sure what happened with incubation, but lets get this back on track. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 7:33 AM To: Tapestry development Subject: Re: [RESULT] Release 2.3 It's my understanding that the primary distribution site for all Jakarta project releases is to be Jakarta, not sourceforge. Give tapestry.sf.net now redirects to Jakarta, shouldn't the release be done 'the apache way'? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Licensing again.
Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 06/02/2003 03:53:47 AM: [snip] Code under the ASF License is clearly OK. As is the IBM Public License (the pre-Jakarta BSF, for example) and the MPL (Rhino). The following public domain components are also approved: Antlr and Doug Lea's concurrency package. Licenses clearly not conforming to the ASF's policies for distribution: LGPL, GPL, Sun's Binary Code License. Could you please explain why ibiblio cannot distribute L/GPL and other opensource binaries as long as the license conditions are met? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Maven as a top-level apache project]
Costin, what's a 'maven-only' repository? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au news [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 07/02/2003 04:53:05 AM: Sam Ruby wrote: Those that care to participate, please indicate your interest by posting to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list. It's up to the board members to decide - but as with Nicola's proposal, I'll strongly opose ( by not participating :-) a repository/CJAN/etc project that is not open to all apache committers ( like gump for example ). Maven is a nice tool - and I wish it good luck wherever it goes. But if Maven charter will include the creation of a maven-only repository - I hope at least some board members will vote -1. Costin Original Message Subject: Maven as a top-level apache project Date: 06 Feb 2003 12:20:32 -0500 From: Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Turbine Maven Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Zenplex Newsgroups: gmane.comp.jakarta.turbine.maven.devel Hi, As I've just gone through the process of getting db.apache.org of the ground I would now like to attempt to do the same for Maven. A top-level project could house Maven and ancillary tools like Continuum and an SCM package and various IDE integration that are popping up. I can easily mock up a site as I'll just borrow the tools I made for db.apache.org. There is a board meeting in two weeks so if the developers are in agreement we'll try and go straight to the top. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ForwardSourceID:NT000ADF56 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Maven as a top-level apache project]
news [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 07/02/2003 06:00:32 AM: I am talking about this in the context of the other discussions on having an apache repository ( and use the apache mirroring system, etc). Also in the context of having a common policy on how releases will be distributed and structured - to fit well in such a repository. And the set of tools and conventions that are needed to access the repository. The 'apache repository' and the ones maven can use (note that maven can have multiple repositories) are not necessarily one and the same thing. We have a 'repository' at a customer site I work on, as well as one at the office. Apache hosting its own (of whatever format is agreed) would be a good idea, IMHO. Having it mirrored would also be good. I agree moving maven to a top level ( apache or jakarta ) is the best step, but the common repository must be common to apache, and not maven specific. ( I know that everyone can use maven repository already ) BTW, given the license discussions it seems unlikely a solution that includes all the jars in the same place will work. So the repository will be not only a storage for jars, but a set of tools to deal with downloading from different locations with different methods ( and mirror lists, etc ). Again - I think this part can only be apache-wide. Sure, but let's not lose focus of what this is for. Distribution? Building? A company/individual can set up their own repository of jars (we all do) that they've accepted licenses for. The 'tools' should be able to work with that set up, similar to how Maven does today. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Maven as a top-level apache project]
Steve Downey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 07/02/2003 01:13:24 PM: One thing that has annoyed me is that Maven will download jars from the ibiblio repository with no regard to the license of them. It's an easy way for jars to come into a build without formal review and acceptance of the license. My company's policy is to use only BSD, ASF, or similar licenses. No GPL. And based on recent discussions here, we may prohibit LGPL. We do also use commercially licensed software, and review carefully the redistribution clauses. It's particularly troubling that the jars show up without supporting documentation. This would better belong on the Maven list. We are attempting to work out a way of specifying acceptable license usage. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Illegal distribution of binaries by Gump
I've noticed that Gump distributes (via gump.covalent.net) several jar files which appear to violate the license agreements found in the projects. - xmlunit: The license requires: * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. - Various xdoclet jars: Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. - Werkz: 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. I'm sure there are many more. Can someone please comment? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Proposal] Jakarta Ruper
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 06/02/2003 08:53:20 AM: Costin Manolache wrote, On 05/02/2003 22.14: I am not very happy with the maven layout - which includes only jars. This is not correct. The maven repository structure includes many deliverable types, not just jars. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DRAFT1] Jakarta Newsletter - January 2003
Rob, do you want updates emailed to you, posted to the list, entered in the wiki?? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Jeffrey Dever [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 03/02/2003 11:24:27 AM: Commons HttpClient Release 2.0 Alpha 2! After many months and a great resurgence of developers, the new build of /HttpClient/ is finally here. The new group of developers has done extensive refactoring to move the project along the new vision. The code base has reached a significant level of maturity and we expect that another released build (possibly a beta) will be ready near the end of February Also check out the new /HttpClient/ logo on the website created by Jeff Dever with the Gimp! http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/httpclient/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Discussion] (Fake)Forrest for Jakarta!
Content of the site is far more important to me than the skin. I'd much rather we had all projects/sites listing a common, agreed upon set of information that is useful. For example, the set of reports maven produces under the heading Project Info (see http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/project-info.html ), along with source cross reference and javadocs, cvs activity reporting, unit test and 'style conformance'. Skins are secondary for me. If we could get consistent content across Jakarta, having a consistent look and feel would be the next step. But having everything look pretty but be incomplete is not much of a step up. So, how about getting some consistency in our navigation and content as part of the process? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Glen Stampoultzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 31/01/2003 12:44:53 PM: Hi. I think this is important and I would love to see some unification of skins on Apache. While we may choose to use different tools to build our sites but I think we should push to make the look of the project consistent. The current mess of different skins makes the site look sloppy. Agree/disagree? Lets hear your opinion. Regards, Glen Stampoultzis At 08:42 AM 30/01/2003 +0100, you wrote: Hi all! I saw the Tapestry discussion, and this remindet me, that I wanted to carry FakeForrest to Jakarta! So what is it? Simple: It's a set of 2 Velocity/Anakia template-files and some images. The Velocity templates are build upon the Jakarta-ones and follow the Jakarta-Anakia-DTD! What does it? It renders Anakia-build websites with the (current - with some small modifications - see below) Forrest skin. Where can I find it? We currently use this to build the http://ant.apache.org website so you can preview the result there and the sources are in the Ant-cvs http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-ant/xdocs/stylesheets/. Why should we use it? IMHO it is the FASTEST way to provide a nice, functional and consistent look of the entire xxx.apache.org website! Are there any limitations? Yes: Currently there are no multiple tabs for menues on the left side, but this can easyly be solved by allowing multiple menu-sections in the proect.xml Additionally: We (Conor ;)) recently fixed some incompatibilities with the HTML 4.01 standard so it now generates validatable HTML 4.01 code! It's proved, it works, it's nice ;). Remark: I do not see Fake-Forrest as the final solution, but its a nice and fast way in moving to a nice new, consisten etc. look of the Apache website, as I said before! Thoughts? Christoph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ForwardSourceID:NT000AB40A - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Jakarta Site Was: [Discussion] (Fake)Forrest for Jakarta!
Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 31/01/2003 02:28:59 PM: [snip] However, a consistent skin might actually be the best way to get a consistently labelled and functional site together. Now I get to disagree with Dion :) His list of important things, the ones Maven produce, are by and large not important. The important things are the ones the user cares about: They're important to me as a developer. As a user, yeah it's a different list. How about we give these items some names: 1) Where do I download? Downloads 2) Has their been a release? Release Notes 3) Where are the tutorials/documentation? Documentation 4) How do I complain about a bug? Bugs 5) Where do I ask a question? Mailing Lists and then more minor questions like: 6) So who is behind Project X? Team Members 7) What Apache community does Project X belong to? What's an Apache community? Do you mean 'top-level project'? [snippage] Those who can't do, complain. But I'm happy to be a member of both sets. I believe the first step is to actually try to cross-manage the site. Tbh, I What's cross-management? Once a site-wide contract for labelling and minimum functionality is ironed out, each particular look and feel, project and generational tool are free to enhance it as much as they want, as long as they: eg) Provide a link called 'Download nightly build' or whatever. Cool. Let's take a stab at it then. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Forum Software.
Ick, I don't want a forum unless it also is a mailing list -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/01/2003 03:41:27 AM: So the suggestion is: All Users lists become forums. Developer lists stay. Only problem I see there is that Developers won't check the forums as much as they should, unless the Users forum has a mail list interface. Hen On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Robert Simmons wrote: Well, once again I would like to bring up the concept of forum software for Jakarta. The reason I am bringing it up again is that mailing lists are intrusive and spammy. Daily I get flooded with a ton of email that I have absolutely no interest in reading. However if I unsubscribe to the lists than when there is something that I would like to know about or answer, I will miss it. In addition, if I unsubscribe I'm not able to post my own issues. With a mailing list, the communication mechanism is just too intrusive. On a forum I can pick and choose what I want to read and reply to. As for them being used, its a simple matter of retiring mailing lists for forum software. When we consider that at least 90% of Jakarta users are not Jakarta developers but will often have a question or an important insight, than the folly of communicating only in mailing lists becomes clear. -- Robert Simmons -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ForwardSourceID:NT000A6782 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 05/01/2003 10:47:30 PM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 05/01/2003 09:00:24 PM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin. Look at this version, which is a modified forrest skin, if it's better: http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/ I took all the suggestions from users like this one and made that skin from the Forrest one. We will evaluate what users prefer from this one for the next CSS-only Forrest skin version coming out soon. I can't tell from that page if the left menu will grow to the right forever or not if there are some long names. That's my main beef with the previous one. Look at this them: http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/manual/howTo-startProject/module.html Better, but I'd prefer they were wrapped rather than concatenated. Long ones are truncated. Smaller fonts + truncation looks like a solution for me, no? As above. Smaller fonts + truncation would be my second choice. Like Jon has said, that left nav bar chewing 30+% of the page is a killer from a usability angle. Exactly why I made this other version. So, is it better? Yep, definitely better. Still not 'good', but it's acceptable. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 05/01/2003 09:00:24 PM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin. Look at this version, which is a modified forrest skin, if it's better: http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/ I took all the suggestions from users like this one and made that skin from the Forrest one. We will evaluate what users prefer from this one for the next CSS-only Forrest skin version coming out soon. I can't tell from that page if the left menu will grow to the right forever or not if there are some long names. That's my main beef with the previous one. Like Jon has said, that left nav bar chewing 30+% of the page is a killer from a usability angle. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Incubator home page (was Tapestry)
This is one of my least favourite features of this forrest skin. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 05/01/2003 10:57:21 AM: on 2003/1/4 2:54 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no-connotation requestedaction=subscribe, ignore Please subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you are interested in participating in the Tapestry incubation process. Thank you, Andy /no-connotation What is up with the left hand side of the layout taking up ~45% of the page? http://studioz.tv/huge-margin.pdf -jon -- StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment 314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco http://studioz.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ForwardSourceID:NT0009E8F6 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IDE Developers' guide
Brian Ewins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 25/11/2002 11:03:32 PM: Andrew C. Oliver wrote: One of the things I find most frustrating is dealing with IDE Developers, meaning those developers who cut their teeth on Microsoft tools and never learned how to even set their PATH let alone their classpath. And why the heck should they? Any decent software worth it's salt doesn't make the user touch their classpath :) Actually using Ant (or Maven) from an IDE is easy enough. The tricky bit is getting the IDE to see the same classpath that the build script uses, for code completion and the like. I noticed the Maven to Eclipse integration for example tries to work by allowing you to generate a file containing the classpath - seems like a decent approach; if all IDEs supported something like this - and Ant scripts were written to support it - life would be easy. Have you seen the Maven eclipse integration that adds all the maven goals into the IDE and runs them background, rather than modally? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IDE Developers' guide
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 26/11/2002 02:12:07 AM: I'm not familiar enough with Maven's recent developments to write on this. Perhaps you could contribute? I'm also not sure how many projects there are that are currently using Maven, however, since this seems to be expanding I suspect it would be worthwhile. Ok, I'll try to get something down in the next couple of days - I've got a release today. I'm afraid I've been using Maven as an excuse to switch back to Emacs from NetBeans - they play together well - but I am actually meant to be writing up something like this anyway, for folk in my company; we're trying a few small, new projects with Maven. Wouldn't stuff like this be better in the Ant/Maven docs though? Perhaps it would. What do you think? I'm happy to put the documentation into Maven. Just pop it into turbine-maven-user, or into the bug tracking system, or email me, or... :) -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cvs commit: jakarta-site/docs/site idedev-rdtomcat.html
Shouldn't this be in the tomcat docs, rather than in site?? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 25/11/2002 07:26:31 AM: acoliver2002/11/24 12:26:31 Added: xdocs/site idedev-rdtomcat.xml docs/site idedev-rdtomcat.html Log: instructions for making tomcat remote debuggable Revision ChangesPath 1.1 jakarta-site/xdocs/site/idedev-rdtomcat.xml Index: idedev-rdtomcat.xml === ?xml version=1.0? document properties author email=[EMAIL PROTECTED]Andrew C. Oliver/author titleIDE Developer's Guide - Setting up Tomcat for Remote Debugging/title /properties body section name=Setting up Tomcat for Remote Debugging p So you're ready to take the leap? You're going to edit a batch file! Take a deep breath, now go to a href=http://vim.sourceforge.net VIM Online/a and download vi for windows so that you have a decent editor to use... I'm only kidding. (You should know this guide is written using vim but your computer, your choice ;-)). We'll step you through the basics and what to stick in the file (its really simple) and you just use your favorite editor to edit the file. Just ensure that your editor saves the file back in text format and doesn't adorn it with markup or special characters, etc. /p /section section name=Disabling tomcat as a service p Make sure Tomcat isn't running as a service. I don't think you can remote debug a service, and running it this way isn't too useful for development. Goto Start-Settings-Control Panel-Administrative Tools-Services (in each version of Windows these move around so you may have to look for them). Look for Apache Tomcat or Tomcat or something to that effect and stop it. Open its properties and switch it to Manual if it is currently loading Automatically. Once your done, close all that stuff. /p /section section name=Editing the tomcat batch file p Make sure that Tomcat isn't running already. Presumably, you've shut it down as a service, and know how to shut it down as a shell script if you started it that way. /p p Open the Windows Explorer (not Internet Explorer. Open the thing you use to move files and folders around). Navigate to where you installed Tomcat. (Probably C:\Program files\Apache Tomcat...) Now navigate under it to the bin subdirectory and edit a file called catalina. bat in your favorite editor. Scroll down to the line that says: rem Guess CATALINA_HOME if not defined and just before it add this line via cut and paste (don't worry, you don't need to know what most of this means...I sure as heck don't!): SET CATALINA_OPTS=-server -Xdebug -Xnoagent -Djava. compiler=NONE -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n, address=8000 minus the quotes of course. Save and exit. /p p So what did that do for you? Well later on in the script the contents of CATALINA_OPTS are passed to the java command. You could also enable remote debugging for other programs by making sure the contents of this after the equal sign were passed to the java command. These options tell the java command not to run the a href=http://java.sun. com/products/hotspot/HotSpot compiler/a, enable the remote debugging, and most importantly to communicate with your IDE on port 8000 (that last part is the thing you're most likely to change so note that!). If something else is already running on port 8000, change this to something a little higher or lower (but not 8080 because thats probably where tomcat is running you know). /p /section section name=Environment Variables and Starting Tomcat p So now you're ready to start tomcat as a shell script. Provided you have TOMCAT_HOME and JAVA_HOME defined already you can probably double click the startup.bat (which later runs catalina.bat), if not then you should probably define those by right clicking on My Computer (from the desktop) and clicking properties then the advanced tab and environment variables. /p p If you want to set tomcat up for all users of your station then click new under System otherwise do it under User environment variables. If you're the only user, its probably safe to do it under System in case your id ever changes. Define TOMCAT_HOME to point to the directory you installed TOMCAT in, define JAVA_HOME to wherever
Re: Mozilla mail filters
This is cool Pier, thanks! Let me/us know when it does move over. This is a *load* better than futzing with email -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 15/11/2002 01:02:20 PM: On 15/11/02 0:50 Stéphane MOR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we could link to the file from the Mailing Lists section of jakarta-site2. Any thoughts ? Yes, start using news.betaversion.org (which will move to news.apache.org once I'm over my friggin deadline), which works with mozilla and filters messages for you (and expires them after one month so that you won't clog up your local cache)... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org ForwardSourceID:NT0008ED4A -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: New Jakarta logo to push live
Is there a version with a transparent background? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 07/11/2002 12:24:22 AM: To make the Jakarta Logo more evident in the affiliation to Apache, and to make it nicer, we've made a new version of it, similar to the one on www.apache.org. There have been comments on the general list about it, and I've committed the results, which it seems we all agree on, in the jakarta-site2 CVS module. There is a normal version (gifsvg), a special blue-background version for Maven sites (gifsvg), and png version with trasparent background. http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/jakarta- site2/xdocs/images/jakarta-logo.gif?rev=HEADcontent-type=image/gif http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/jakarta- site2/xdocs/images/jakarta-logo-blue.gif?rev=HEADcontent-type=image/gif Can someone please push it live? -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org ForwardSourceID:NT0008B2AA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Adding Lists to EyeBrowse - how?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 30/10/2002 06:32:31 PM: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah... Like POI... sniff... I heard you the first time (of course I just read it a few minutes ago). ;) I will do it when I have time. If there's anything I can do, just let me know. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: EyeBrowse is a great facility - how do we add other Apache mailing lists to it? It would be one hell of a lot easier if all the mailing lists were actually hosted on nagoya. Addition of lists and indexes is a manual process, handled via commandline programs. A while back, I sent mail to Jason van Zyl outlining the steps for inclusion into the infrastructure documentation for nagoya, but I'm not certain whether it ever made it (can't remember where that page is in CVS). Adoption of a SourceCast-based infrastructure would automate all of this. If you dig this up and just want a command line slave, I'm happy to volunteer. *sigh* I'm actually working on updating nagoya to the latest Eyebrowse code and schema, which contains some bug fixes and drastically increases the performance of the ViewLists servlet. Cool. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Apache Jakarta BSF
I believe BSF has been approved for inclusion as part of the Jakarta Project. Is there anything I can do to help this happen? February is a long time in the past, and as a past user of BSF, and a Jakarta committer I'd be happy to help where I can. Also, have mailing lists etc been setup? I haven't seen them anywhere...? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers - Forwarded by dIon Gillard/Multitask Consulting/AU on 30/10/2002 07:16 PM - Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 30/10/2002 06:52:44 PM: Dion, For BSF? IBM originally raised the subject on the BSF mailing list in June of 2001, and it was officially approved by the ASF during the Feb 27, 2002 Board Meeting. ref: http://www-124.ibm.com/pipermail/bsf-discussion/2001-June/000271.html http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2002/board_minutes_2002_02_ 27.txt I been talking with Chuck Murcko, who is doing the repository setup. He told me today that he expects to be good to go within the next couple of days. --- Noel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:dion;multitask.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 2:35 Noel, do you know when/where the Jakarta nominations have taken place? I'm fairly involved there and haven't seen it.. Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 30/10/2002 08:41:09 AM: Robert, Tomcat is the primary hosting engine (behind apache), although we still have sites that need to migrate from GNUJSP. I haven't tried putting up any EJB (e.g., EJBoss) support. On the other hand, we'll be running Tomcat 5 as soon as it looks stable. I want JSP v2 support. Python is installed (not mod_python, yet) but no one is using it, unlike perl. FWIW, I also came across something called Spyce, which is essentially an attempt to clone JSP using Python as the language. Reading his project rationale, it occured to me what a widespread myth it is that Java is THE programming language for JSP pages. More engines really ought to pickup BSF and deploy multiple scripting languages. Hopefully that will happen after BSF appears as a Jakarta project. It is supposed to happen by Nov 1. Of course, they first talked about moving it in Jun 2001 ... Meanwhile incredible hours are wasted on deadend projects that could be invested in integrating a new language into JSP. --- Noel Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get 128 Bit SSL Encryption! http://us.click.yahoo.com/JjlUgA/vN2EAA/kG8FAA/saFolB/TM -~- http://www.bobrow.net/kimberly/JavaSummit for info on subscribing/unsubscribing Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ForwardSourceID:NT0008862A -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Adding Lists to EyeBrowse - how?
Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 31/10/2002 10:10:35 AM: When you got some time... Andy managed without Eyebrowse for ever, he can manage another few days! :-) As a sidenote, guys, when you have problems with infrastructure and mail, please, keep posted also the infrastructure@apache or apmail@apache mailing lists... There are a lot of more people having a clue over there and not just me... (And I'm talking about _real_ unix admins! :-) Will do, and thanks again for your time and effort Pier. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
It'd be a piece of cake to add a velocity tag to Jelly -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/10/2002 05:22:30 AM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 10/10/2002 03:40:35 AM: Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Java is not the fastest technology to develop in, however, it produces the best code for the long term. PHP is the fastest technology to develop in, however, it produces the crappiest code for the long term. mod_python is looking more and more attractive to me all the time, a clever balance between the two. XML IS NOT A PROGAMMING LANGUAGE. For certain! This is one of my biggest issues with Ant and Jelly/Maven -- working with them is just ... icky. So use the script tag in Ant/Jelly. Don't I then have to rely on an external scripting system -- Jython, for instance? -- Daniel Rall [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Dear incubator
Since the discussion was initiated here on general@jakarta, I'd prefer we kept it here until there is a way forward via incubator, rather than move it off to yet another list. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 27/10/2002 11:30:10 AM: Dear incubator, I feel like I'm speaking to the wizard of Oz posting to a list I can't see ;-) Tapestry (tapestry.sourceforge.net) is a web app framework similar in use and scope to Velocity/turbine and JSP/Struts, but certainly very different in approach. dIon Gillard and I have both agreed to help with the transition. However we both feel the first step is for the tapestry community (to whom's mail list I am now subscribed) to adopt apache voting rules ( http://httpd.apache.org/dev/guidelines.html) before joining. once they've demonstrated this transition and identified 3 core committers, we should identify whether they go through some new process or identify the new incubator process. Whatever the case they should not be unduely lubricated through the guidelines, nor unduely inhibited by the transition. I think we're all up to this challenge and this could (hopefully) set a very nice precident. To this end and to the ends of providing more interaction between the various elements here at apache, I would like to suggest Ken Coar whom I have approached as the member sponsor and advisor of the project and has stated his interest. His experience and abillities will be an asset to this transition as well as provide greater insight to the rest of the Apache community on the goings on of a Java/Jakarta project. I'd like to start a conversation on what the process/guidelines for accepting Tapestry should be at the same time and what its path for acceptance as either a Jakarta project or top level apache project should be. I would suggest that this discussion happen on the community at apache list and move to the general at jakarta list if deemed appropriate as dion and I cannot participate in the pmc@incubator list nor can the project principals. Thanks for your support, Andrew C. Oliver committer POI, Lucene contributer Cocoon, JAMES -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org ForwardSourceID:NT0008711E -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Adding Lists to EyeBrowse - how?
EyeBrowse is a great facility - how do we add other Apache mailing lists to it? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Apache reorganization.... make all XML projects top level... future ofXML.apache.org unknown
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 25/10/2002 11:04:45 PM: u seen eyebrowse: http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ViewLists It holds all the xml lists. It has a format for a list like this: http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SummarizeList?listId=47 though. No it doesn't. It says 0 for POI there have certainly been more than 0 posts :-( So let's get it fixed -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [Fwd: Re: [eclipse-dev] Java compiler defaults changed]
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 24/10/2002 09:21:02 AM: on 2002/10/23 2:24 PM, Tom Copeland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of mass source code analysis, here's some of the Sourceforge projects and their unused code stats (unused locals, unused fields, etc): http://pmd.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/webpmd.pl I thought about doing a similar page for Jakarta projects - just use the anonymous CVS access for each Jakarta project, run PMD on it, pipe the output to a file, and link it all together - but perhaps that would be annoying Yours, Tom Maven uses various plugins to essentially produce this same data (and more). Just in case you didn't know, Jon, PMD is available as a Maven plugin. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Naming issues
Therefor I still think Jakarta Commons should fix their naming scheme. But that will have to be brought up there, not here. It's completely impractical, and will hurt Jakarta immensely. Oh, well, now that I think of it, this is only for projects that have already been released... Other opinions? Has everyone forgotten that it's not just commons that uses org.apache.projectName as their java package name within Jakarta. Ant is org.apache.tools.ant Turbine is org.apache.turbine Velocity is org.apache.velocity Struts is org.apache.struts etc. I don't see a realistic proposal being made that renames all of the Jakarta Project source code. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
John McNally [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 20/10/2002 04:29:17 AM: [snip] As much as I hate it, JSP is the recognized standard for webapp development. Jakarta's development of a general purpose java templating technology, Velocity, is a valid alternative and is not even in direct conflict with JSP. But it is a simple, powerful alternative to JSP as well. Does tapestry give us another alternate template system that is only usable within the framework? No, and that's where tapestry is different. Tapestry is a component framework, not a template engine. Think Swing components as an example. Granted I could try to investigate Tapestry in depth to answer all my reservations, but I'm busy and on the surface the project seems to overlap several existing projects. My -1 is not a statement that Turbine (or Struts, Velocity, Avalon) should not have any competitors within Jakarta. I would prefer that Tapestry make the case that it offers something that these projects do not and I don't think the original proposal makes the case forcefully enough. I've looked @ Tapestry in quite a bit of detail, and it does offer something different to Struts and Turbine, in that it focusses squarely on components and reuse. There is a dearth of reusable components for Struts, simply because the JSP model doesn't lend itself to components very well, hence JSPTL and JSFaces. Turbine has good component support for non-GUI components, but the template engine again doesn't lend itself to component embedding and reuse. My 2c Aus -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta
Vic, I'm acutely aware of Tiles and they are inscrutable to the average user. There are also lots of issues with Tiles fitting in with Struts 1.1 beta from memory. It's telling that the documentation you give is from outside of the struts doc news [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/10/2002 11:00:48 AM: Struts 1.1 has something called tiles that are can be used for re-use, and at run time a tile can be bound to different beans, and more advanced capabilities. http://www.lifl.fr/~dumoulin/tiles/doc/tutorialBody.html and an advanced PDF (in doco of basicPortal which uses tiles and else where). .V -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 10/10/2002 03:40:35 AM: Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Java is not the fastest technology to develop in, however, it produces the best code for the long term. PHP is the fastest technology to develop in, however, it produces the crappiest code for the long term. mod_python is looking more and more attractive to me all the time, a clever balance between the two. XML IS NOT A PROGAMMING LANGUAGE. For certain! This is one of my biggest issues with Ant and Jelly/Maven -- working with them is just ... icky. So use the script tag in Ant/Jelly. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
And to resurface the old issue, this is so much worse than
#if (..)
#end
in Velocity...?
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 08/10/2002 09:50:15 AM:
Right...my problem with JSP isn't its dogged speed its the conceptual
nastiness of it.
%
if (you.have(this).in.your(html)) {
out.println(Andy doesn't think its good);
}
%
-Andy
On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 19:45, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
On 8/10/02 0:18, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Looks like kind of a mickey mouse version of JSP to me... ;-) (I
just
couldn't resist...I just couldn't!)
It is, actually, but more than Mickey Mouse, it's the Speedy
Gonzales
version of JSP, given that per equivalent template (and rewriting tag
libraries in Tea Applications), we kinda get a 3x performance boost!
:-)
Plus it has its own editor, Kettle, (kinda Goofy, but far from being a
cheap
Scrooge version of an IDE), and it's BSD (thanks to our Brian Donald
Behlendorf who lured them into believing that Open Source is a good
thing).
Quack
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--
http://www.superlinksoftware.com - software solutions for business
http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document in
Java
http://krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede - the best build/project
structure
a guy/gal could have! - Make Ant simple on complex Projects!
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote.
-Ambassador Kosh
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Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
Scott Eade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 08/10/2002 10:12:33 AM:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
#if (..)
#end
in Velocity...?
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 08/10/2002 09:50:15
AM:
%
if (you.have(this).in.your(html)) {
out.println(Andy doesn't think its good);
}
%
But the Velocity is much easier to teach to a web designer
(non-programmer)
than the JSP.
http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/ymtd/ymtd.html
I really shouldn't have replied before, but since i did
we've been over this a million times before, and the ymtd document has
some glaring inconsistencies I've pointed out years ago wrt the struts
version of things. Using it as a prop in these arguments is a major
woftam.
--
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Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
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Jakarta.apache.org and Spam or junk mail threshold
Today I started getting email bouncing (from my [EMAIL PROTECTED] address) from jakarta.apache.org with the following message: - SMTP Protocol Returned a Permanent Error 553 Spam or junk mail threshold exceeded. See http://www.flame.org/qmail/spamjunk.html (#5.7.1) - Searching their database results in a 500 http response :-( I checked MAPS RBL and we're not listed there. I successfully emailed @ 1:30pm my time, and the messages started bouncing @3:24 my time. Any suggestions? __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta.apache.org and Spam or junk mail threshold
Thanks Pier, --- Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 29/9/02 10:49 am, Mr Dion Gillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - SMTP Protocol Returned a Permanent Error 553 Spam or junk mail threshold exceeded. See http://www.flame.org/qmail/spamjunk.html (#5.7.1) - Searching their database results in a 500 http response :-( (quoting) [snip flame.org quoting] Yep, read it all, and checked my mail logs. Nothing funny happening AFAICT. Any suggestions? Write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for those kind of stuff, and it'll be better to see also a message with full headers Will send one ASAP. Thanks again. __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
More documentation tools
And now for another tool producing documentation @ Apache... -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers - Forwarded by dIon Gillard/Multitask Consulting/AU on 06/20/02 05:24 AM - Andy Clark andyc@apache. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] org cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Announce] CyberNeko Tools for XNI 2002.06.18 Available 06/18/02 10:15 PM Please respond to general When I made the announcement a few days ago about the first version of the CyberNeko Tools for XNI, I was busy working on another tool. At the time, it wasn't quite ready for release so I pushed out the first collection of tools without it. But now it's ready! :) I am pleased to announce the 2002.06.18 release of NekoXNI! This release adds a new tool to the lineup: the CyberNeko Style Processor, version 0.1. NekoStyle is an XML batch processing framework that is similar to the StyleBook tool we've been using for several years to generate documentation of XML projects here at Apache. Why have I chosen to create yet another XML batch processing framework? Because I wasn't happy with the other ones. Because I like doing things *my* way. Because I could. Because we just don't have enough of them. ;) Because of a million reasons... Take your pick. But before you decide whether it was worthwhile to write in the first place, check out the web page[1], download the code[2], and try it out for yourself. You may find that you like it! Or not. Either way, it works extremely well for what I need to do. :) NekoStyle offers the following features: * simple, flexible, and extensible framework for automating XML processing * JAXP/TrAX compliant * parses HTML documents (using NekoHTML) as well as XML documents * dynamic pipelines * an Ant task for executing within build scripts * small size (the Jar is only 25K!) and perhaps the most important is: * DOCUMENTATION! :) One of the primary reasons I delayed the initial release was so that I could write more documentation about how it works. I hate writing docs as much as the next person but I knew it was important for people to understand the framework. In fact, the HTML documentation included with NekoStyle is actually generated *by* the NekoStyle processor at build time. So this is a good way to learn how the system works in practice. aside Most of the content is written in DocBook and then transformed to the HTML output. However, there are some files that are written using custom DTDs so that they can keep the semantic meaning behind the data. These files (e.g. the change log) are first converted to DocBook and then to HTML. (This is one of my first attempts at using DocBook so you'll have to excuse me if I used it incorrectly in certain places. That grammar is HUGE! ;) /aside The real reason that I wrote NekoStyle was that I needed specific features for other things that I'm working on. So that's what I designed it for. There are a few limitations and things I want to improve but I think it's a nice little system for performing XML processing. And I already have plans for features to add in subsequent versions. The most important feature I want to add is a template processor that people can use to write the output HTML. This would allow them to change the design of the output without needing to edit XSLT stylesheets. *And*, using NekoHTML, these templates can be written in standard, dirty HTML much like the templating functionality in other systems (e.g. PostNuke, etc). This would alleviate a lot of the trouble in maintaining documentation and adapting the old docs to fit new requirements. Anyway, if you need a small library to automate batch XML processing, then NekoStyle may be what you need. So check it out and let me know what you think. You can also download all of the NekoXNI tools in a single package[3
Re: Jakarta Newsletter - May 2002
Cool Great effort...thanks. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new volunteer
As part of Latka, I did stylesheets to convert from DocBook to Anakia. If they'd help, just let me know. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Ian Atkin ianatkin@blueyon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] der.co.uk cc: Subject: new volunteer 05/17/02 10:24 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List i'd like to volunteer a sizeable chunk of my time to apache i've 3 years java, xml, etc most of which was spent benefitting from apache code without the time to contribute (or was it willingness?) i'd like to improve my technical writing (partly as an employment move) so I thought apache could do with my labour - which, what, when, where? I'm committed to DocBook and XSLT so how could this fit with Anakia? would an apache DocBook customisation (doctype or scripts) be of use? has one been done? Ian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
If the point of this page is to stop posting of project specific products, e.g. Struts IDE, Ant editors, Maven plugins to the project lists, I think it's misguided. Why? From a project perspective, you will subscribe only to those lists you are interested in. If someone updates vendor.html, noone on the mailing lists will notice, so there will still be a need to post to the mailing list to ensure the project users know. If it's a list of vendors using jakarta or selling services, fine. But let's be clear about what it is. Up until now, I think Struts is the only project that lists external resources/consultants/companies that support the product. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers costinm@coval ent.net To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: 05/15/02 06:49 Subject: Re: [Actual Action Taken] Re: Advertisement using Apache AMlists Please respond to Jakarta General List Is this for any vendor who wants free ads, or only for companies that support Apache projects ( and pay the salary for apache commiters ) ? I think it would be fair and nice if projects would include such a page in the releases, maybe next to the list of commiters who wrote the code. Costin On 14 May 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Please see: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html If this is acceptable (this is the best I could do on my lunch break ;-) ) -- I'll go ahead and update the site and I'll supply a patch for mail.html that asks that folks don't post commercial ads to the mail lists rather supply a patch for the vendor page to be applied at jakarta-site2 committer discretion. If you have minor suggestions for this, please supply them in the form of commits or patches that correct any minor errors or improve things. I'm not interested in creating the vendor superpage. Thanks, -Andy PS I realize www.superlinksoftware.com is down at the moment. Its undergoing upgrades. It'll be back up at the end of the week. On Mon, 2002-05-13 at 09:32, Henri Yandell wrote: +1 from me. While it's nice to see committers who are able to commercially work with the experience they gain/use here, it would be very demeaning to the list for every company who are using jsp/servlets/other to post their consultant services to the general list. Hen On 13 May 2002, Leo Simons wrote: +1 to all of that. - Leo Sun Micro, has a page of here are Java companies -- lets innovate it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here are companies and folks who support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer. Secondly, lets Make a rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they are there for. This does a few things: 1. Provides a good rationale to companies to use Apache Jakarta Software (not a specific goal of the group but a personal goal of several people here including myself as I like working with GOOD software) 2. Gives those companies a place to post thats relevant to Jakarta, won't annoy people who might otherwise use them. 3. Give those companies a high visability web page to advertise on. 4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter entries will one day reach the limit on the number of strings I can match on. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
| | In these days I've seen messages from [EMAIL PROTECTED] advertising | commercial support for Apache software on this list | (http://www.multitask.com.au/default.html?page=mtSOS) and on individual | project lists | http://sos.multitask.com.au/QuickPlace/sos/main.nsf/h_Toc/07633801fb8c6459ca | 256bb3001722b1/?OpenDocument . | | I think that this is a very nice thing, since IMHO commercial support is | vital for Apache software. | | I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support | Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I've just been taking the tack that I'd place any announcements where there most appropriate - e.g. tomcat stuff on the tomcat lists etc. | Are there any special guidelines on this? | | Are there any suggestions on this topic? I'd love to know more too... -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Jeff, AFAIK announce@ is for Jakarta announcements, not external projects. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Jeff Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Jeff Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/13/02 10:13 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Advertisement using Apache lists On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and other OSS software. I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support. I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. --Jeff I'm not a committer on any projects so can anyone else try to get this going? It shouldn't be too hard. Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project Activity
Many commits without description and many cosmetic changes. Hey now, my commits are coming through with no message because of a bug in NetBeans. It's got nothing to do with the stats. Some of those 'cosmetic' changes like checkstyle issues are LONG overdue. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/13/02 10:00 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Project Activity From: Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 13 May 2002 20:17, Danny Angus wrote: Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress. Agreed - even worse. Sometimes after these activity meters turn up you get committers breaking up one commit into many commits, presumably to push their activity level up. You also get the many typographic changes for much the same reason. This is exactly what has happened to turbine-maven just after the statistics were made. Many commits without description and many cosmetic changes. Measuring how well a project is doing with these stats is nonsense. There is no semantics in numbers. Say you are having tons of letters from angry users that claim that your product sucks. Is the number of posts still a health indicator? Maybe of the mailing list software ;-) -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EGO] Re: Project Activity
FWIW, there is no 'ranking' in the cvs activity report, unless you consider alphabetical order ranking. But I'm not going to complain about people who would otherwise do nothing doing some of the 'cosmetic' stuff like documentation/javadoc etc. And everyone seems to have ignored the file activity report - which helps to find code that is unstable. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/14/02 01:33 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Project Activity On Mon, 13 May 2002, Peter Donald wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2002 20:17, Danny Angus wrote: Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress. Agreed - even worse. Sometimes after these activity meters turn up you get committers breaking up one commit into many commits, presumably to push their activity level up. You also get the many typographic changes for much the same reason. Breaking one big commit into many commits is not bad. It makes things easier to review, the commit comment can describe much better what has been done in the file. Putting a 'ranking' on commiter's activity is however very bad. Some are working full time ( as part of their job ), some are using the little free time they find ( or sleep less ). I think the second category deserves a lot of apreciation, even if they may have fewer commits. Costin I have found that higher healthy activity is actually indicated by small localized changes. This is not going to be captured in a simple count the commits and note the committer style approach. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Project Activity
Back in mid March there was a discussion around the jakarta overview ( http://jakarta.apache.org/site/overview.html ) and what / wasn't a good measure of project activity. My comment back then was commits on a project are a good indicator. So anyway, I've added this reporting into the cvs head of maven. For a sample, see: http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/maven-reports.html In particular the change log, developer activity and file activity. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ANN] in-house mail archive...
I'm sure someone else will manage it but some of the lists have zero entries, e.g. turbine-maven-dev -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/04/02 04:34 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:[ANN] in-house mail archive... Thank to Daniel Rall, we finally have an in-house mail archive for JAKARTA.APACHE.ORG, with all our history so far. The baby is running on Tigris' EyeBrowse and can be accessed here: http://nagoya.apache.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Maven is growing
C'mon guys personal attacks aren't worth our time. Communities have a diverse range of people. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Sale, Doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/04/02 05:12 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: 'Jakarta General List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Maven is growing agreed. the swearing (http://www.mail-archive.com/general@jakarta.apache.org/msg05130.html), self-congratulating web page (http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon.html), and general attitude is disheartening. most of us don't need others to step in and defend our 'nice-guy' status. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 1:18 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Maven is growing On Fri, 3 May 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote: well, just yesterday we had: [daedalus] 10:56am ~ grep -c /maven/ 02 7546 Looks like the *entire* life of your project has been around 9500... OhhA My english vocabulary is too limited to express what I feel reading this... Maybe ashamed to be in the same 'community' with this kind of person. Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You guys are so funny.
I think I've been saying this long enough. . MERGE MERGE MERGE! How about we all stop the windbagging and start the code. If you've got an itch scratch it - lets take this dicsussion to Krysalis-dev, as it's completely OT here. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You guys are so funny.
Berin Writes: | Craig R. McClanahan wrote: | | It seems to me that authors of a build environment that they want | everyone to use would think about going and asking the potential users | (i.e. committers on various other projects) what their requirements are, | before any attempt (by those authors, or by anyone else as was the case | that started this particular flamefest) to shove it down everyone's | throats. | | Which gets back to one of my first points. | | General build improvement issues should be discussed on General so that | we know what we want. Talk is cheap and almost useless, as we've all heard the last two days. Code/Docs are far more valuable. I believe the usual way is to start with a cohesive proposal. As for people shoving Maven down other people's throats, I'd like to know where the Maven developers have been doing that. From what I can see the Maven developers have been fairly balanced. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You guys are so funny.
So much so that there have been no replies to my post on krysalis-developers. If you guys are so serious, how about continuing the discussion where it's appropriate. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers smirk/ Oddly the centipede side supports collaboration On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 19:53, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: On Fri, 3 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I've been saying this long enough. . MERGE MERGE MERGE! smiling I can't help sitting here thinking about how the committers on projects being told to MERGE MERGE MERGE must feel like two young adults whose parents want them to get married (and have kids), but they don't even know if they like each other yet ... /smiling Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You guys are so funny.
Sam, His experience suggests that the Krysalis, Centipede, and Forrest have been very accommodating, so the ideal situation would be for an active developer on Maven to step forward. Sam, I asked yesterday or the day before on this list what needs to be done. I'm waiting on you for a reply. I'm an active developer on maven. Yesterday we added the nag tags in that were requested. Again, what is needed? I don't see how we can be more accomodating other than downloading, installing and running our own Gump. From talking to Vincent on that, it's not a simple process, hence we are relying on the Gump developers to tell us where we're going wrong. We've chosen to generate a descriptor rather than use namespaces, but other than that, I can't tell why you're complaining - throw us a bone -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers [snip] His experience suggests that the Krysalis, Centipede, and Forrest have been very accommodating, so the ideal situation would be for an active developer on Maven to step forward. It goes without saying that this definition should neither presume nor preclude any technology beyond an XML parser. = = = = = = So, who wants to be the next contestant? - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Namespaces and Transforms
Off Topic warning Sam, I hear you. I understand where you're coming from. I can also see that there are diverging ideas on project descriptors which have been solved in two ways: 1) Augment with namespace definitions, and 2) Generate from different document. The bottom line is that as long as they both work, who cares how the end result is achieved. I'd imagine most people who've written code generators have never written a java compiler. I'd hope from these exchanges it's clear that we're simply not ignoring the work. We're working with Gump. If it turns out one descriptor is a simple transformation of the other, then it'll be easy to adopt Gumps descriptor, if not, we can propose the changes back to Gump/Alexandria. It may be that Gump and Maven don't have the same need for the project information, since they do different things with a 'project', e.g. look @ Ant's 'project descriptor'. At the moment, we've not gone the extend with namespaces way, but it really shouldn't matter. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] com cc: Subject: Re: You guys are so funny. 05/03/02 12:42 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List dIon Gillard wrote: I don't see how we can be more accomodating other than downloading, installing and running our own Gump. From talking to Vincent on that, it's not a simple process, hence we are relying on the Gump developers to tell us where we're going wrong. Look at it from my perspective for a moment. I took initiative. I build a working system. I provided some documentation. I've responded when people have asked for features like the ability to control their own descriptors. I've asked for feedback. I've quickly given commit access to anybody who even expresses the slightest interest and has even some minimal competency. What feedback do I get? We've chosen to generate a descriptor rather than use namespaces, but other than that, I can't tell why you're complaining - throw us a bone Imagine somebody writing a code generator, never having installed a compiler. Let's be clear - I am not asking anybody sully their hands by actually running Gump, but there must have been a reason why a different DTD was chosen than Gump's. I made an effort to document the Gump data definitions and there certainly is plenty of instance data to look at. Tell me what to change, tell me what's wrong, or simply tell me they suck. All I ask is that you don't continue to ignore this work. Let me be clear: I don't give a rat's behind whether the project definitions are processed using XSLT, DVSL, or C#. But is it too much to ask that somebody showing at least some token interest in converging on the data definitions? - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You guys are so funny.
Gee thanks Costin. How to alienate a group of people in one easy lesson. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers costinm@coval ent.net To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: 05/03/02 10:55 Subject: Re: You guys are so funny. AM Please respond to Jakarta General List On Thu, 2 May 2002, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: As I tried to point out in my parenthetical remark -- it wasn't the Maven committers who started this whole thing ... it was our favorite iconoclast himself (Jon), who seems to believe that anything that makes him happy should make everybody happy, and anyone with contrary opinions is just not with it enough to be worthy of being listened to. And, to give Jon credit where it deserves, he manages to build communities and get people involved. Many times I (seriously) considered Jon is playing some sophisticated psychological games - by beeing so 'inpolite' ( to say the least ) and unreasonable he can get people who wouldn't give a damn about the whole issue to become involved and symphatise with Jon's target. So Centipede people should thank him - he built awarness and support for them, while discrediting Maven and making maven commiters look bad, by association. Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects tomaven!)
So quick question. If I don't like the documentation quality of say oh..this project: http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/index.html -- should I start my own project to compete with it and then create FUD messages saying how much it sucks while I tout my project as more mature even if its not quite kicked off yet? (at least everyone I've talked to You can do what you like, I'm not holding you back. If you're inferring this is what I did, you're living on another planet. says they haven't quite gotten maven working yet -- haven't tried it myself...centipede suits my needs so no real motivation) Ditto in reverse. Or would you rather me contribute patches to the documentation of the project. Quoting you to me on 2002-03-22 on this list: Your message to me suggests that you think I care whether you use centipede or not. You are mistaken. It works for me. If it works for you, cool. If not, use whatever. Be free. [snip] Marketing campaign? It's just the developer community being excited and sharing with their friends. Well tone it down to information instead of FUD+ and maybe I'll even do more than admire the documentation. (nice work on the doco btw -- its a quality I like a lot). FUD? Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt about CentipedeI don't see how. Jon posted the Quick! message. There are things I like about Centipede, too, e.g. the cents, and I think there could be a lot of synergy between maven and centipede, e.g. the skins side of things is something I'd like to see with maven, but looking @ POI's site under Linux, the stylesheets need some work :) -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!
Does that mean you're volunteering :)
Seriously though, what do I need to do to make this happen? There's nothing
on the web page you listed giving any details.
I'm reading http://jakarta.apache.org/gump/project.html now...
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
Sam Ruby
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Subject: Re: Quick! convert all your
projects to maven!
05/01/02 10:50
AM
Please respond
to Jakarta
General List
Jon Stevens wrote:
I have yet to be able to build Maven.
echo maven.home=${user.home}/maven ~/build.properties
cvs co jakarta-turbine-maven
cd jakarta-turbine-maven
ant -f build-bootstrap.xml
Seems pretty easy to me.
I'll believe it when I see it here...
http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/
- Sam Ruby
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Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!
Dude...you seriously need to get in line with GUMP. You want to make I'm in line, I've had enough hassles with Gump over the last 3 weeks to grow new grey hairs. But hey, someone breaks Xerces, and it's *my* job to fix it? Things are still a bit skewiff there. sure Maven works and works with other Jakarta stuff, well GUMP + Junit is The Answer. Trust me. I don't feel its sam's job to fix everyone's bugs for them. Sam's pretty good, but I don't think he's that good, I think the rumors of him being omnipresent are exaggerated. Though its rumored that he can be in Redmond, NC and Apache all at once ;-) (not a small feat). (so Sam is that worth those slides you promised?) -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: GUMP RULEZ WAS: Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!
Andy writes: [snip] I think I'd be resistant to trying an Apache project that wasn't committed to working on GUMP. Previous to GUMP most projects were known Ok, now who's spreading the 'D' in FUDMaven can generate a basic gump descriptor. to be painfully tied to particular versions of particular libraries. This has gotten a lot better since GUMP came on line. [snip] So while I wish centipede and Maven would work together to create a better project (like I said, I'm but a pebble in the avalanche), I don't care which build a project uses. But I do care if Maven has decided not to build through GUMP as sooner or later I'm going to want to use a See previous comment. I've volunteered to get it working. I haven't yet had a reply from Sam though. project that uses Maven (assuming its successful) and boy I'll be ticked if Maven causes dependancy problems that would have been self-resolving had GUMP been properly used to test it. Am I volunteering, well no (I can't as continuous integration has to be an active commitment by a community, and I'm not a part of that community...partly because builds bore me), but I think I'll change my position into actively dissuading Maven's use if it isn't integrated with GUMP as it could have a cascading effect on creating dependency problems for the projects that use it. Gee thankswhat was that word again...FUDis this the 'F' or 'U'. And thats all I have to say about that, PS these points are more elegantly stated here: http://www.martinfowler.com/articles/continuousIntegration.html Which funnily enough never mentions gump from memory James Taylor wrote: -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects tomaven!)
The 'Source Code' link leads to a page that is butt ugly. The javadoc page is also yeachh -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/02 11:58 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!) POI's site under Linux, the stylesheets need some work :) Now I'm intrigued. What browser do you use? Mozilla 1.0 RC1 on Mandrake 8.2 under Gnome 1.4 Interesting. We're using the same browser on roughly the same operating system... Can you give me some more specifics, I'd like to know exactly what is appearing incorrectly for you? I don't seem to be experiencing any problems. Thanks for your help. Andy= RHL 7.2, Ximian Gnome, Mozilla (whatever the latest release is), kernel 2.4.17. (though my laptop is still windoze because Linux isn't supported on laptops at work) -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/02 12:08 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dude...you seriously need to get in line with GUMP. You want to make I'm in line, I've had enough hassles with Gump over the last 3 weeks to grow new grey hairs. But hey, someone breaks Xerces, and it's *my* job to fix it? Things are still a bit skewiff there. But dude, thats good that it failed! Valuable information was provided It'd be better if it didn't break, but then again, that's what it's early detection is for. I'd much prefer to have not wasted my time having flame wars with Nicola about how Latka's gump build has nothing to do with Maven, and have Gump list my dependency as xml-xerces, when it's actually using Xerces-J 2 through the failure. It may not be your job to fix Xerces, but next time it may be a dependency on Xerces that breaks (due to say a changed interface), in such case wouldn't you want to know so you could fix it before it hits you in the nose when everyone says gee this project sucks it won't even work with the version of Xerces that ships with Tomcat 4.0.5 etc. You REALLY need to read the fowler article. Maybe I don't know why you don't think I haven't read the fowler article. I've used CruiseControl before, and understand where Gump is coming from. I'm just not fond of the process of a project I depend on breaking their code and I get to debug it you should put some heat on the Xerces folks hey you're breaking the build suckers if it bothers you. That's next, though. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects tomaven!)
You mean it doesn't suck on Mozilla in your browser? The fonts are tiny and squished beyond readability in mine, is that clearer for you? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/02 12:46 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!) Gee thanks. thats really constructive. I'd like to have heard something more like X page has X on the wrong line or something useful. Or even more precise aesthetic criticisms. And I like the javadoc page... *shrugs* (of course I think the feather on the maven page hurts my eyes against that background but *shrug* taste is subjective...) this discussion is stupid. Basically your disinterested in my needs which are: 1. Centaven 2. with GUMP And I think continued partcipation in this discussion is a waste of my time. I was hoping to see collaboration, but I think there is some stupid partisanship between XML and Jakarta that is frustrating. I have my foot firmly set on BOTH and plan to keep it that way. Having choice is good, but sometimes the egotistical gee we don't like your effort lets not work with you stuff gets kind of old. I look forward to seeing your alternative to POI. It should be amusing. I'm done now. -Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 'Source Code' link leads to a page that is butt ugly. The javadoc page is also yeachh -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/02 11:58 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!) POI's site under Linux, the stylesheets need some work :) Now I'm intrigued. What browser do you use? Mozilla 1.0 RC1 on Mandrake 8.2 under Gnome 1.4 Interesting. We're using the same browser on roughly the same operating system... Can you give me some more specifics, I'd like to know exactly what is appearing incorrectly for you? I don't seem to be experiencing any problems. Thanks for your help. Andy= RHL 7.2, Ximian Gnome, Mozilla (whatever the latest release is), kernel 2.4.17. (though my laptop is still windoze because Linux isn't supported on laptops at work) -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reality Check (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)
Excellent post. The issue I have is that it is not giving that information for projects which have chosen to adopt Maven. This issue is addressible. Sure is...we're working on it, right? I'd love some help, and a reply to my email from before. Meanwhile, if a working Gump project descriptor - as generated by Maven - for projects which convert to Maven could be considered as a part of the virtual checklist for projects considering converting to Maven, then I would be happy. You mean, like Latka has? There we've kept the original build.xml simply because of gump. It's not too hard to do in the meantime for projects 'converting'. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: xml Jakarta mail list WAS: Re: cross-project communications
| Call me silly but I don't think votes are necessary. Basically it gets | set up and everyone who wants to get xml-jakarta communications | going...joins. | What I'm most interested in is *would you join*. | How bout it Jon, Dion... Pier, Sam...Sylvain...Scottgang? Can't we just join general@xml anyway, esp. since someone said it was reasonably low traffic. That'd be my preferred option. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects tomaven!)
[snip] I think both projects have nice advantages and features. Maven has good documentation. Centipede is easier to setup and is a bit more advanced in the way it generates documentation. Its a bit alpha but I think the I've had the opposite experience. The whole reason I got involved with Maven was that Centipede was assuming a set of knowledge and not providing any documentation. So why I applaud the effort. I really think the marketing campaign could be a bit more low key and pragmatic. Just my opinion...maybe I should read my tagline again before expressing it. Flame away. Marketing campaign? It's just the developer community being excited and sharing with their friends. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Subproject proposal Config4J
Yes, just expensive. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Endre Stølsvik [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/30/02 02:12 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: New Subproject proposal Config4J On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Danny Angus wrote: | did anyone else get this sponsored link on the google jakarta results | page? | |Jakarta - Are your business web sites and J2EE applications Unbreakable? |www.oracle.com |FREE Oracle High Availability Middleware Strategy Guide! | | | Looks like someone is trying to poach our clients, perhaps we should | sponsor one back.. | |Oracle - Are your business web sites and J2EE applications Cost Effective? |http://jakarta.apache.org |FREE Java and J2EE Server Software from the Organisation that brought you | the Apache webserver | | | ;-) That would be just so _fantastically_ cool! ;-DDD Would it be legal?? ;) -- Mvh, Endre -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/04/2002 03:59:43 PM: Actually Jon, Torque and crossdb are quite a bit different. Torque is pre generated and requires some preliminary setup and doesn't deal with SQL statements directly. Whereas crossdb is on the fly and is an object oriented way of creating SQL statements that are database independent. Torque row insert example after generation (taken from tutorial): Publisher addison = new Publisher(); addison.setName(Addison Wesley Professional); addison.save(); Author bloch = new Author(); bloch.setFirstName(Joshua); bloch.setLastName(Bloch); bloch.save(); crossdb row insert example: InsertQuery iq = factory.getInsertQuery(); iq.setTable(Employees); iq.addAutoIncrementColumn(emp_id); And for databases without an auto-increment feature?? iq.addColumn(emp_name, Travis Reeder); iq.addColumn(emp_department, Development); iq.execute(conn); Quite a bit different don't you think? Tim: I did read that page and thought I covered the more important points. Is there a formal way of doing these proposals? Travis [snip] -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/04/2002 07:35:40 AM: on 4/22/02 2:27 PM, Ellis Teer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had considered using Torque before I was ready to give Turbine a try. Because it's subproject I had the impression that it was dependent on Turbine. This delayed me using it by a number of months. It's placement as a subproject in my case hurt its adoption. -Ellis Teer www.sitepen.com Never assume anything. All you had to do was take the extra effort to ask a simple question. Don't blame us for your being lazy or confused. tongue-in-cheekLazy, as in too lazy to make Torque a top level project/tongue-in-cheek Also, at the top of the Torque page, it says: Torque was developed as part of the Turbine Framework. It is now decoupled and can be used by itself. Which you'll never know if you don't find it. On a serious note, being a top level project means that more people will find the project. -jon -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/04/2002 09:05:56 AM: on 4/22/02 4:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On a serious note, being a top level project means that more people will find the project. However, it seems that the problem isn't finding the project. Torque is listed on the Jakarta homepage. It is the realization that Torque is not coupled to Turbine that is the problem. I'll buy that. I know that when I first saw the *URL*, I tnhought it was tied to Turbine. -jon -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Managing versions of Apache Jakarta software
Even less valuable opinions inline :) Danny Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 29/03/2002 10:08:45 PM: I don't know how this helps to clarify the situation, but I expect a Jakarta registry is probably required, and the ability for sub-projects to define their classpaths as part of their installation procedure. In which case a manifest reading ant task could ensure dependancies are satisfied without sub-projects having to bundle them. See Maven's update-jars target. This raises a couple of issues though.. a) it implies that there be an ant based installer for each application participating in the scheme Maven creates an 'install-jar' as part of it's build process. b) it also implies that dependacy information and version compatibilities can be written and read in a useful way See the project descriptors for Gump Maven. c) it may also require a seperate jakarta_lib to store common(shared not popular) jars, to remove them from individual project directory trees. lib.repo, as defined in maven's properties. d) smooth operation may also need a coherent jar version naming scheme, and download directory structure to be adopted by all participating sub-projects, so that ant can find the ones it needs to download. I wish. I think I'm going down the road of a kind of binary GUMP, where dependancies are satisfied not by building from cvs, but by downloading binaries. See maven's update-jars target. If I lose my job I know what to do.. I know I've mentioned maven a lot here lately, but after checking out other stuff, and coming across it, it solves a ton of these problems, and is being developed here as well. The guys developing it are also open to feedback/criticism/junk. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: subproject layout conventions
Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 29/03/2002 12:53:36 AM: On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 09:53, Berin Loritsch wrote: The only thing I would want to customize are: 1) Project Logo 2) Project color-scheme No problem :-) The only other thing I've found handy is if there's no project Logo to replace it with the project name in a suitable font. [snip] -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: subproject layout conventions
Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 28/03/2002 08:15:53 AM: On Wed, 2002-03-27 at 17:13, Leo Simons wrote: It has been brought up by many people that there is no common way of organising subproject websites. I propose we draft a set of guidelines (_not_ rules) on a general structure. http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/ There's a sample structure there, with lots of documentation and the printable pages issue is dealt with. Hey Jason, don't undersell Maven :) It's a godsend for projects. Not only does Maven provide docs, pages but it also helps with jar file downloading, dependencies, mailing lists, build file reuse, metrics, code cross reference and more. Bring it on! -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tambora.zenplex.org -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Printable pages
Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 25/03/2002 07:59:47 AM: Berin: In that case, the entire Jakarta site needs to be redesigned. It makes use of embedded tables and font elements. It does not use CSS at all. Jon: Correct. Me: I don't know much about anakia, but I know more about xhtml and css than I do about java (sadly so =). I'll volunteer. http://www.leosimons.com/scratchpad (note I tried to put this in CVS but have no karma so...) Here's a design I've had lying around adapted to Jakarta. Two screen shots using IE 5.5, one is normal the other is print preview. I should be able to make this work (more or less, at least) in everything from NS2.x upwards. HTML also available for browsing. These look good. The main problem is the code sections. If the line is too long to fit on screen or page, it causes the entire page to break out, which is ugly. The only thing I can think of is to use a css float: left directive with @print, which cuts of a bit of the code. That, and adapting the pages manually to keep the line length at bay. Suggestions? Of course, colors are adaptable to current ones if desired... thoughts? Is this wanted? I'm willing to trial this with Latka, since it uses it's own copy of site.xsl (I've been playing this week). Feel like helping on the stylesheet? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://www.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)
Philipp K. Janert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/03/2002 09:47:31 AM: [snip] I don't think documentation is marketing - and what I tried to provide is simply documentation, not different in principle than Javadoc, only at a higher level. Except it also contained words such as immature, which border on the emotional. [snip] - Users vs Developers I sense a certain ambivalence towards making Jakarta projects easier to use - Ted, for instance, points out that more users lead I'll take personal exception to that comment. My first patches to a Jakarta project included documentation, and it's one of the main things I've done on Latka at this point. I think we'd all like the projects to be easier to use and understand, but I'll wager not everyone is comfortable that they can do it themselves. [snip] [snip] That's great! The News section has also disappeared - I consider that a bit sad: I think some measure for the activity of the project would be helpful, but there may be better ways to determine it. I would have thought that the date of the most recent release would not be considered a subjective judgement. 'News' as a measure of activity on a project is effectively useless. Commits/month would be a lot better. Given most jakarta projects have a nightly build, releases by themselves aren't as much of a milestone as people would think from the commercial point of view. Take Struts for example. I happily built production systems off pre-1.0 code for many months. There were no new betas, just updated nightly builds. The code was actively being developed, but why waste time on a release if there's no particular purpose? The question is: Now what? Should we: - collect suggestions to improve the initial draft so that the majority here considers it a good thing to have and develop it further along those line? - leave it as is? - drop it altogether? - replace it with something altogether different? Well, it's already being improved by being changed in CVS, and could easily be replaced with something altogether different over time. I'd much rather see the commons stuff removed and a pointer in place to the existing page, and some form of 'activity' in place of what was news. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://www.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 24/03/2002 12:39:09 AM: 'News' as a measure of activity on a project is effectively useless. Commits/month would be a lot better. Hummm...I'll put that comment in the pile of the most important activity in software development is programming pile of things I disagree with. Fine, but since commits aren't just programming, they're also docs, proposals etc, i feel it's a far more valid measure of activity than writing a news article. Given most jakarta projects have a nightly build, releases by themselves aren't as much of a milestone as people would think from the commercial point of view. Take Struts for example. I happily built production systems off pre-1.0 code for many months. There were no new betas, just updated nightly builds. The code was actively being developed, but why waste time on a release if there's no particular purpose? Whoa...dude.. The release is the point when all the edges are smoothed and things are tied off. Release often. There is a difference between a build and a release. Its the point when an effort is made to make sure the documentation matches up and everything is *ready*. It a tracking point in the software lifecycle. If you never stop the bus then when can you paint it? I agree, but you need a purpose for a release. Releasing just so it happens often is pointless. There should be a consistent amount of change/bug fixing/docs etc for a release to be made. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://www.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: Printable pages
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/03/2002 07:28:46 PM: On 3/21/02 7:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please tell me you committed them back to site.vsl? No... The .xsl was derived from Jon's .vsl (for Anakia) but missed a few small things.Since DVSL uses a declarative matching style like XSL, the .dvsl was cribbed from the .xsl (simple replacement of some of the pointy stuff...). The .xsl didn't produce the same output as the .vsl, so I fixed that in the .dvsl. Ok, can you point me to the dvsl file so that I can check it and integrate the differences back into the site.xsl? I'd much rather be using the same style/functionality for Latka as the rest of commons. Thanks, geir -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://www.multitask.com.au/developers Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/03/2002 09:51:46 AM: On 3/21/02 5:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/03/2002 08:13:31 AM: -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Printable pages on 3/21/02 12:57 PM, Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In that case, the entire Jakarta site needs to be redesigned. It makes use of embedded tables and font elements. It does not use CSS at all. Correct. My long time goal has been to convert the Jakarta site over to use Scarab's stylesheets since it has been created by a CSS expert (who works for CollabNet) and it also looks better visually...it works extremely well in all browsers. I also want to switch from Anakia to DVSL so that all you XSLT weenies can stop crying about Anakia's inability to be declarative. :-) Being one of the XSLT weenies, could we use the site.xsl as the basis for site.dvsl? Last I checked, they were in sync. Not that I know squat about vsl : Actually, I took site.xsl as the basis for the site.dvsl that is in the dvsl project. It was so easy to do. Also it fixed a few things that craig left out via copy() :) geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Age and treachery will always triumph over youth and talent -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://www.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: Krysalis, Centipede, Generating docs with Cocoon?
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/03/2002 11:58:20 PM: Perhaps you should contribute to the project. [snip] No point really. Your message to me suggests that you think I care whether you use centipede or not. You are mistaken. It works for me. If it works for you, cool. If not, use whatever. Be free. singingChorusEnd title=Born Free/ Done. I'll spend my time making site2 a better vehicle for docs. -Andy [snip] -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://www.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: [site] proposed changes to site.vsl template
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/03/2002 12:00:53 AM: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've made a change to the template I use to generate the Latka docs, as I've always been unhappy with the amount of whitespace in the left hand navbar that site.vsl and site.xsl generate. To see the 'compact' style, see: http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/~checkout~/jakarta-commons/docs/latka/index.ht ml?rev=1.7 My proposal is to make these same changes to site.vsl and site.xsl. Since LF is a major thing, what do others think? How about http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/ ? See also http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/overview.html . I like these better. Does it come as a stylesheet to transform 'standard' site docs, or is it only workable via Cocoon? And is there the 'vsl' version? -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://www.multitask.com.au/developers
Re: [site] proposed changes to site.vsl template
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/03/2002 07:52:22 AM: on 3/21/02 5:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've made a change to the template I use to generate the Latka docs, as I've always been unhappy with the amount of whitespace in the left hand navbar that site.vsl and site.xsl generate. To see the 'compact' style, see: http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/~checkout~/jakarta-commons/docs/latka/index.html ?rev=1.7 My proposal is to make these same changes to site.vsl and site.xsl. Since LF is a major thing, what do others think? I think that is TOOO compact. It makes things hard to read. -jon Cool, feedback :) Where do u think it needs more whitespace - between 'menus' or 'items'? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://www.multitask.com.au/developers
RE: Printable pages
Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/03/2002 08:13:31 AM: -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Printable pages on 3/21/02 12:57 PM, Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In that case, the entire Jakarta site needs to be redesigned. It makes use of embedded tables and font elements. It does not use CSS at all. Correct. My long time goal has been to convert the Jakarta site over to use Scarab's stylesheets since it has been created by a CSS expert (who works for CollabNet) and it also looks better visually...it works extremely well in all browsers. I also want to switch from Anakia to DVSL so that all you XSLT weenies can stop crying about Anakia's inability to be declarative. :-) Being one of the XSLT weenies, could we use the site.xsl as the basis for site.dvsl? Last I checked, they were in sync. Not that I know squat about vsl :) Then here is my +20, let's get this going! I'm keen. Where do we start? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://www.multitask.com.au/developers
