Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Remko Popma]

Updated the Wikipedia page for Log4j some more. The Log Levels and
Configuration sections are now up to date for Log4j 2, and show a Log4j 2
configuration example.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:09 PM, Mikael Ståldal 
wrote:

> > I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> > I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j
> 1 site.
>
> Should we do the same for "Apache log4j 1 extras"?
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Remko Popma  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms
>>> of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>>> even how many Apache projects?
>>>
>>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>>
>>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>>  page is even
>>> worse.
>>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>>
>> I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>
>>
>>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>>  mentions that the project is
>>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>>> notification on every page.
>>>
>> I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j 1
>> site.
>>
>>
>>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Remko
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> [image: MagineTV]
>
> *Mikael Ståldal*
> Senior software developer
>
> *Magine TV*
> mikael.stal...@magine.com
> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>
> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not
> copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
> email.
>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Mikael Ståldal]

> I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j 1
site.

Should we do the same for "Apache log4j 1 extras"?

On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Remko Popma  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma 
> wrote:
>
>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
>> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>> even how many Apache projects?
>>
>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>
>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>  page is even
>> worse.
>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>
> I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>
>
>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>  mentions that the project is
>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>> notification on every page.
>>
> I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j 1
> site.
>
>
>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Remko
>>
>
>


-- 
[image: MagineTV]

*Mikael Ståldal*
Senior software developer

*Magine TV*
mikael.stal...@magine.com
Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com

Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
(or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not
copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
email.

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Ole Ersoy]

On 07/05/2016 02:04 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:

Oh, I like this idea of a more useful homepage.

Great.  Most of the time all I hear is crickets :)

However, I don't think we can track download statistics all that well as most 
people download it straight from Maven Central.

There's some data here:
https://mvnrepository.com/search?q=log4j2
https://mvnrepository.com/artifact/org.apache.logging.log4j

Also the stats should be available per this:
http://blog.sonatype.com/2010/12/now-available-central-download-statistics-for-oss-projects/

Not sure if access is limited to contributors only ...

Cheers,
Ole




On 5 July 2016 at 12:50, Ole Ersoy > wrote:

It may help if the performance chart for multiple threads were moved to the 
index page, followed by simple code use and integration steps for other 
libraries.  The front page could be less verbose and more informative / 
executive summary'ish.

When looking for packages on NPM the first thing I look at is downloads 
followed by API use cases.

Here's a superagent example:
https://www.npmjs.com/package/superagent

For log4j2 replace the superagent ferret with the performance chart

Ferret: 50K downloads in the last day (Good)
Log4J2: ?

Ferret: Simple all encompassing API (Good)
Log4J2: ?

Ferret: installation (Very easy)
Log4J2: This is the biggest hangup for people

If it's easy to switch out SLF4J, etc. then that's a big plus.  Maybe just 
one example (Play framework, Spring Boot), followed by links for other 
scenarios.

Ferret: Plugin support - excellent
Log4J2: ?

The current index page sort of has this stuff, but with superagent I get it 
all with a quick glance.

Cheers,
Ole


On 07/04/2016 03:47 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:

We have benchmarks pretty prominently displayed:

https://logging.apache.org/log4j/2.x/performance.html

Also, SLF4J is comparable to log4j-api; both need a logging library to 
actually work such as log4j-core, logback, log4j 1.x, or java.util.logging.

Personally, I've found async logging to be a killer reason to switch due to 
all the performance issues other logging libraries cause.

On 4 July 2016 at 15:33, Ole Ersoy > wrote:

I personally like log4j 2 a lot (Because of Java 8 lambda support, cleaner 
architecture, etc.) and switching for me was really easy because I use lombok annotations 
to generate the logger.  But what would be the "Killer" reason to upgrade if 
say someone is using SLF4J?  For example HikariCP has this JMH Benchmarking chart on 
their front page that makes a pretty convincing case:
https://github.com/brettwooldridge/HikariCP

Happy 4th,
Ole






On 07/04/2016 02:37 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:

So what sites are best to get syndicated on for this? I get a lot of my 
programming news from various subreddits for instance (r/programming, r/java, 
r/coding) along with Twitter. Otherwise, I learn about new things usually from 
java user groups or online presentations before digging into detailed tutorials 
and books.

On 3 July 2016 at 10:11, Gary Gregory > wrote:


On Jul 2, 2016 4:34 PM, "Remko Popma" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2016/07/03, at 5:01, Ralph Goers > wrote:
>
>> Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are 
great, but IMO the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to use 
Log4j.
>
> +1

+1

Gary

>
>> Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to 
learn about Log4j.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker > wrote:
>>>
>>> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that 
might help adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from 
non-Oracle people (if any).
>>>
>>> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma > wrote:



 On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma > wrote:
>
> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story 
in terms of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite slow. I 
could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or even how many Apache 
projects?
>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

I've made a ticket to track the homepage improvements:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-1456

On 5 July 2016 at 12:50, Ole Ersoy  wrote:

> It may help if the performance chart for multiple threads were moved to
> the index page, followed by simple code use and integration steps for other
> libraries.  The front page could be less verbose and more informative /
> executive summary'ish.
>
> When looking for packages on NPM the first thing I look at is downloads
> followed by API use cases.
>
> Here's a superagent example:
> https://www.npmjs.com/package/superagent
>
> For log4j2 replace the superagent ferret with the performance chart
>
> Ferret: 50K downloads in the last day (Good)
> Log4J2: ?
>
> Ferret: Simple all encompassing API (Good)
> Log4J2: ?
>
> Ferret: installation (Very easy)
> Log4J2: This is the biggest hangup for people
>
> If it's easy to switch out SLF4J, etc. then that's a big plus.  Maybe just
> one example (Play framework, Spring Boot), followed by links for other
> scenarios.
>
> Ferret: Plugin support - excellent
> Log4J2: ?
>
> The current index page sort of has this stuff, but with superagent I get
> it all with a quick glance.
>
> Cheers,
> Ole
>
>
> On 07/04/2016 03:47 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:
>
> We have benchmarks pretty prominently displayed:
>
> https://logging.apache.org/log4j/2.x/performance.html
>
> Also, SLF4J is comparable to log4j-api; both need a logging library to
> actually work such as log4j-core, logback, log4j 1.x, or java.util.logging.
>
> Personally, I've found async logging to be a killer reason to switch due
> to all the performance issues other logging libraries cause.
>
> On 4 July 2016 at 15:33, Ole Ersoy  wrote:
>
>> I personally like log4j 2 a lot (Because of Java 8 lambda support,
>> cleaner architecture, etc.) and switching for me was really easy because I
>> use lombok annotations to generate the logger.  But what would be the
>> "Killer" reason to upgrade if say someone is using SLF4J?  For example
>> HikariCP has this JMH Benchmarking chart on their front page that makes a
>> pretty convincing case:
>> https://github.com/brettwooldridge/HikariCP
>>
>> Happy 4th,
>> Ole
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/04/2016 02:37 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:
>>
>> So what sites are best to get syndicated on for this? I get a lot of my
>> programming news from various subreddits for instance (r/programming,
>> r/java, r/coding) along with Twitter. Otherwise, I learn about new things
>> usually from java user groups or online presentations before digging into
>> detailed tutorials and books.
>>
>> On 3 July 2016 at 10:11, Gary Gregory < 
>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2016 4:34 PM, "Remko Popma" < 
>>> remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > On 2016/07/03, at 5:01, Ralph Goers 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are great,
>>> but IMO the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to
>>> use Log4j.
>>> >
>>> > +1
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> >
>>> >> Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to learn
>>> about Log4j.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ralph
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker < 
>>> boa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might
>>> help adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from
>>> non-Oracle people (if any).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma < 
>>> remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma <
>>> remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in
>>> terms of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is
>>> quite slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j
>>> 2? Or even how many Apache projects?
>>> >
>>> > I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to
>>> increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>> >
>>> > * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j. It's mostly about Log4j 1.2
>>> and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the
>>> other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework page
>>> is even worse.
>>> > * The Apache Logging site has no explicit mention that Log4j 1 is
>>> EOL.
>>> 
>>>  I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>> 
>>> >
>>> > * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site mentions that the project
>>> is EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick
>>> out and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a
>>> mention of the EOL and a link to 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

Oh, I like this idea of a more useful homepage. However, I don't think we
can track download statistics all that well as most people download it
straight from Maven Central.

On 5 July 2016 at 12:50, Ole Ersoy  wrote:

> It may help if the performance chart for multiple threads were moved to
> the index page, followed by simple code use and integration steps for other
> libraries.  The front page could be less verbose and more informative /
> executive summary'ish.
>
> When looking for packages on NPM the first thing I look at is downloads
> followed by API use cases.
>
> Here's a superagent example:
> https://www.npmjs.com/package/superagent
>
> For log4j2 replace the superagent ferret with the performance chart
>
> Ferret: 50K downloads in the last day (Good)
> Log4J2: ?
>
> Ferret: Simple all encompassing API (Good)
> Log4J2: ?
>
> Ferret: installation (Very easy)
> Log4J2: This is the biggest hangup for people
>
> If it's easy to switch out SLF4J, etc. then that's a big plus.  Maybe just
> one example (Play framework, Spring Boot), followed by links for other
> scenarios.
>
> Ferret: Plugin support - excellent
> Log4J2: ?
>
> The current index page sort of has this stuff, but with superagent I get
> it all with a quick glance.
>
> Cheers,
> Ole
>
>
> On 07/04/2016 03:47 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:
>
> We have benchmarks pretty prominently displayed:
>
> https://logging.apache.org/log4j/2.x/performance.html
>
> Also, SLF4J is comparable to log4j-api; both need a logging library to
> actually work such as log4j-core, logback, log4j 1.x, or java.util.logging.
>
> Personally, I've found async logging to be a killer reason to switch due
> to all the performance issues other logging libraries cause.
>
> On 4 July 2016 at 15:33, Ole Ersoy  wrote:
>
>> I personally like log4j 2 a lot (Because of Java 8 lambda support,
>> cleaner architecture, etc.) and switching for me was really easy because I
>> use lombok annotations to generate the logger.  But what would be the
>> "Killer" reason to upgrade if say someone is using SLF4J?  For example
>> HikariCP has this JMH Benchmarking chart on their front page that makes a
>> pretty convincing case:
>> https://github.com/brettwooldridge/HikariCP
>>
>> Happy 4th,
>> Ole
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/04/2016 02:37 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:
>>
>> So what sites are best to get syndicated on for this? I get a lot of my
>> programming news from various subreddits for instance (r/programming,
>> r/java, r/coding) along with Twitter. Otherwise, I learn about new things
>> usually from java user groups or online presentations before digging into
>> detailed tutorials and books.
>>
>> On 3 July 2016 at 10:11, Gary Gregory < 
>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2016 4:34 PM, "Remko Popma" < 
>>> remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > On 2016/07/03, at 5:01, Ralph Goers 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are great,
>>> but IMO the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to
>>> use Log4j.
>>> >
>>> > +1
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> >
>>> >> Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to learn
>>> about Log4j.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ralph
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker < 
>>> boa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might
>>> help adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from
>>> non-Oracle people (if any).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma < 
>>> remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma <
>>> remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in
>>> terms of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is
>>> quite slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j
>>> 2? Or even how many Apache projects?
>>> >
>>> > I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to
>>> increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>> >
>>> > * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j. It's mostly about Log4j 1.2
>>> and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the
>>> other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework page
>>> is even worse.
>>> > * The Apache Logging site has no explicit mention that Log4j 1 is
>>> EOL.
>>> 
>>>  I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>> 
>>> >
>>> > * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site mentions that the project
>>> is EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick
>>> out and are easily ignored. At the very 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Ole Ersoy]

It may help if the performance chart for multiple threads were moved to the 
index page, followed by simple code use and integration steps for other 
libraries.  The front page could be less verbose and more informative / 
executive summary'ish.

When looking for packages on NPM the first thing I look at is downloads 
followed by API use cases.

Here's a superagent example:
https://www.npmjs.com/package/superagent

For log4j2 replace the superagent ferret with the performance chart

Ferret: 50K downloads in the last day (Good)
Log4J2: ?

Ferret: Simple all encompassing API (Good)
Log4J2: ?

Ferret: installation (Very easy)
Log4J2: This is the biggest hangup for people

If it's easy to switch out SLF4J, etc. then that's a big plus. Maybe just one 
example (Play framework, Spring Boot), followed by links for other scenarios.

Ferret: Plugin support - excellent
Log4J2: ?

The current index page sort of has this stuff, but with superagent I get it all 
with a quick glance.

Cheers,
Ole

On 07/04/2016 03:47 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:

We have benchmarks pretty prominently displayed:

https://logging.apache.org/log4j/2.x/performance.html

Also, SLF4J is comparable to log4j-api; both need a logging library to actually 
work such as log4j-core, logback, log4j 1.x, or java.util.logging.

Personally, I've found async logging to be a killer reason to switch due to all 
the performance issues other logging libraries cause.

On 4 July 2016 at 15:33, Ole Ersoy > wrote:

I personally like log4j 2 a lot (Because of Java 8 lambda support, cleaner 
architecture, etc.) and switching for me was really easy because I use lombok annotations 
to generate the logger. But what would be the "Killer" reason to upgrade if say 
someone is using SLF4J?  For example HikariCP has this JMH Benchmarking chart on their 
front page that makes a pretty convincing case:
https://github.com/brettwooldridge/HikariCP

Happy 4th,
Ole






On 07/04/2016 02:37 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:

So what sites are best to get syndicated on for this? I get a lot of my 
programming news from various subreddits for instance (r/programming, r/java, 
r/coding) along with Twitter. Otherwise, I learn about new things usually from 
java user groups or online presentations before digging into detailed tutorials 
and books.

On 3 July 2016 at 10:11, Gary Gregory > wrote:


On Jul 2, 2016 4:34 PM, "Remko Popma" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2016/07/03, at 5:01, Ralph Goers > wrote:
>
>> Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are 
great, but IMO the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to use 
Log4j.
>
> +1

+1

Gary

>
>> Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to 
learn about Log4j.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker > wrote:
>>>
>>> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might 
help adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from non-Oracle 
people (if any).
>>>
>>> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma > wrote:



 On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma > wrote:
>
> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in 
terms of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite slow. I 
could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or even how many Apache 
projects?
>
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to 
increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j. It's mostly about Log4j 
1.2 and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other way around in 
my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework page is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site has no explicit mention that Log4j 1 is 
EOL.

 I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.

>
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site mentions that the project 
is EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and are easily 
ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of the EOL and a link to the 
Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a notification on every page.

 I 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

We have benchmarks pretty prominently displayed:

https://logging.apache.org/log4j/2.x/performance.html

Also, SLF4J is comparable to log4j-api; both need a logging library to
actually work such as log4j-core, logback, log4j 1.x, or java.util.logging.

Personally, I've found async logging to be a killer reason to switch due to
all the performance issues other logging libraries cause.

On 4 July 2016 at 15:33, Ole Ersoy  wrote:

> I personally like log4j 2 a lot (Because of Java 8 lambda support, cleaner
> architecture, etc.) and switching for me was really easy because I use
> lombok annotations to generate the logger.  But what would be the "Killer"
> reason to upgrade if say someone is using SLF4J?  For example HikariCP has
> this JMH Benchmarking chart on their front page that makes a pretty
> convincing case:
> https://github.com/brettwooldridge/HikariCP
>
> Happy 4th,
> Ole
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 07/04/2016 02:37 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:
>
> So what sites are best to get syndicated on for this? I get a lot of my
> programming news from various subreddits for instance (r/programming,
> r/java, r/coding) along with Twitter. Otherwise, I learn about new things
> usually from java user groups or online presentations before digging into
> detailed tutorials and books.
>
> On 3 July 2016 at 10:11, Gary Gregory  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 2, 2016 4:34 PM, "Remko Popma" < 
>> remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On 2016/07/03, at 5:01, Ralph Goers < 
>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are great,
>> but IMO the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to
>> use Log4j.
>> >
>> > +1
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> >
>> >> Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to learn
>> about Log4j.
>> >>
>> >> Ralph
>> >>
>> >>> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might
>> help adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from
>> non-Oracle people (if any).
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma < 
>> remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in
>> terms of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is
>> quite slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j
>> 2? Or even how many Apache projects?
>> >
>> > I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to
>> increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>> >
>> > * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j. It's mostly about Log4j 1.2
>> and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the
>> other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework page
>> is even worse.
>> > * The Apache Logging site has no explicit mention that Log4j 1 is
>> EOL.
>> 
>>  I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>> 
>> >
>> > * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site mentions that the project
>> is EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick
>> out and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a
>> mention of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to
>> have a notification on every page.
>> 
>>  I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the
>> Log4j 1 site.
>> 
>> >
>> > * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It
>> would be great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog
>> posts or tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>> > * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j
>> 2? Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did
>> the conversion by name? Or some other way?
>> >
>> > Thoughts?
>> >
>> > Remko
>> 
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Matt Sicker 
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker 
>
>
>


-- 
Matt Sicker 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Ole Ersoy]

I personally like log4j 2 a lot (Because of Java 8 lambda support, cleaner architecture, 
etc.) and switching for me was really easy because I use lombok annotations to generate 
the logger.  But what would be the "Killer" reason to upgrade if say someone is 
using SLF4J?  For example HikariCP has this JMH Benchmarking chart on their front page 
that makes a pretty convincing case:
https://github.com/brettwooldridge/HikariCP

Happy 4th,
Ole





On 07/04/2016 02:37 PM, Matt Sicker wrote:

So what sites are best to get syndicated on for this? I get a lot of my 
programming news from various subreddits for instance (r/programming, r/java, 
r/coding) along with Twitter. Otherwise, I learn about new things usually from 
java user groups or online presentations before digging into detailed tutorials 
and books.

On 3 July 2016 at 10:11, Gary Gregory > wrote:


On Jul 2, 2016 4:34 PM, "Remko Popma" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2016/07/03, at 5:01, Ralph Goers > wrote:
>
>> Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are great, 
but IMO the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to use Log4j.
>
> +1

+1

Gary

>
>> Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to learn 
about Log4j.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker > wrote:
>>>
>>> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might 
help adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from non-Oracle 
people (if any).
>>>
>>> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma > wrote:



 On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma > wrote:
>
> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in 
terms of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite slow. I 
could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or even how many Apache 
projects?
>
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to 
increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j. It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 
and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other way around in my 
opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework page is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site has no explicit mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.

 I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.

>
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site mentions that the project is 
EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and are easily 
ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of the EOL and a link to the 
Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a notification on every page.

 I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j 
1 site.

>
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would 
be great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or tutorials etc 
about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? 
Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the conversion by 
name? Or some other way?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Remko


>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker >
>>
>>




--
Matt Sicker >

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

So what sites are best to get syndicated on for this? I get a lot of my
programming news from various subreddits for instance (r/programming,
r/java, r/coding) along with Twitter. Otherwise, I learn about new things
usually from java user groups or online presentations before digging into
detailed tutorials and books.

On 3 July 2016 at 10:11, Gary Gregory  wrote:

>
> On Jul 2, 2016 4:34 PM, "Remko Popma"  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On 2016/07/03, at 5:01, Ralph Goers  wrote:
> >
> >> Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are great,
> but IMO the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to
> use Log4j.
> >
> > +1
>
> +1
>
> Gary
>
> >
> >> Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to learn
> about Log4j.
> >>
> >> Ralph
> >>
> >>> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might
> help adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from
> non-Oracle people (if any).
> >>>
> >>> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma 
> wrote:
> >
> > In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in
> terms of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is
> quite slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j
> 2? Or even how many Apache projects?
> >
> > I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to
> increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
> >
> > * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j. It's mostly about Log4j 1.2
> and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the
> other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework page
> is even worse.
> > * The Apache Logging site has no explicit mention that Log4j 1 is
> EOL.
> 
>  I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> 
> >
> > * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site mentions that the project is
> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
> notification on every page.
> 
>  I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the
> Log4j 1 site.
> 
> >
> > * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would
> be great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts
> or tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
> > * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Remko
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Matt Sicker 
> >>
> >>
>



-- 
Matt Sicker 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Gary Gregory]

On Jul 2, 2016 4:34 PM, "Remko Popma"  wrote:
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2016/07/03, at 5:01, Ralph Goers  wrote:
>
>> Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are great,
but IMO the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to
use Log4j.
>
> +1

+1

Gary

>
>> Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to learn
about Log4j.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker  wrote:
>>>
>>> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might
help adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from
non-Oracle people (if any).
>>>
>>> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma  wrote:



 On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma 
wrote:
>
> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in
terms of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is
quite slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j
2? Or even how many Apache projects?
>
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to
increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j. It's mostly about Log4j 1.2
and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the
other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework page
is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site has no explicit mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.

 I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.

>
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site mentions that the project is
EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
notification on every page.

 I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j
1 site.

>
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would
be great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts
or tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
conversion by name? Or some other way?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Remko


>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker 
>>
>>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Remko Popma]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma  wrote:

> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
> even how many Apache projects?
>
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
> way around in my opinion.
>
I updated the Wikipedia page on Log4j. Feedback welcome. Still more work
needed to show Log4j 2 configurations and code examples...


> The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>  page is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>  mentions that the project is EOL,
> but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and
> are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of
> the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
> notification on every page.
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe
> start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Remko
>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Remko Popma]

Actually I wanted to +1 the "let's get other OSS projects to use Log4j 2"
part. I still think many people aren't even aware that Log4j 2 exists or
when they do they dismiss it as too new, can't be stable yet.
Talks and articles _will_ help.

Remko

On Sunday, 3 July 2016, Remko Popma  wrote:

>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2016/07/03, at 5:01, Ralph Goers  > wrote:
>
> Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are great, but
> IMO the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to use
> Log4j.
>
> +1
>
> Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to learn
> about Log4j.
>
> Ralph
>
> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker  > wrote:
>
> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might help
> adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from
> non-Oracle people (if any).
>
> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma  > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma > > wrote:
>>
>>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms
>>> of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>>> even how many Apache projects?
>>>
>>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>>
>>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>>  page is even
>>> worse.
>>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>>
>> I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>
>>
>>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>>  mentions that the project is
>>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>>> notification on every page.
>>>
>> I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j 1
>> site.
>>
>>
>>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Remko
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker  >
>
>
>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Remko Popma]

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2016/07/03, at 5:01, Ralph Goers  wrote:
> 
> Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are great, but IMO 
> the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to use Log4j.  
+1

> Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to learn about 
> Log4j.
> 
> Ralph
> 
>> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker  wrote:
>> 
>> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might help 
>> adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from 
>> non-Oracle people (if any).
>> 
>> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma  
 wrote:
 In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of 
 feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite 
 slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or 
 even how many Apache projects?
 
 I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase 
 our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
 
 * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j. It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and 
 mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other 
 way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework page is 
 even worse.
 * The Apache Logging site has no explicit mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>> 
>>> I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>>  
 * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site mentions that the project is EOL, 
 but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and 
 are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of 
 the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a 
 notification on every page.  
>>> 
>>> I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j 1 
>>> site.
>>>  
 * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be 
 great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or 
 tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
 * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe 
 start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the 
 conversion by name? Or some other way?
 
 Thoughts?
 
 Remko
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Matt Sicker 
> 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Ralph Goers]

Personally, I don’t think talks do all that much. Articles are great, but IMO 
the best route is in trying to get other open source projects to use Log4j.  
Then people who start to use those other projects are forced to learn about 
Log4j.

Ralph

> On Jul 2, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Matt Sicker  wrote:
> 
> If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might help 
> adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from 
> non-Oracle people (if any).
> 
> On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma  > wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma  > wrote:
> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of 
> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite 
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or 
> even how many Apache projects?
> 
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase our 
> uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
> 
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j . 
> It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. 
> That needs to be the other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java 
> logging framework  page 
> is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit 
> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>  
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site 
>  mentions that the project is EOL, but 
> it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and are 
> easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of the 
> EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a 
> notification on every page.  
> I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j 1 site.
>  
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be great 
> if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or tutorials 
> etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe 
> start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the 
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Remko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Matt Sicker >

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

If we could get a talk in to something big like JavaOne, that might help
adoption, though I have no idea what kind of talks they accept from
non-Oracle people (if any).

On 2 July 2016 at 08:57, Remko Popma  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma 
> wrote:
>
>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
>> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>> even how many Apache projects?
>>
>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>
>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>  page is even
>> worse.
>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>
> I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>
>
>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>  mentions that the project is
>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>> notification on every page.
>>
> I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j 1
> site.
>
>
>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Remko
>>
>
>


-- 
Matt Sicker 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Remko Popma]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Remko Popma  wrote:

> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
> even how many Apache projects?
>
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>  page is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>
I updated the Apache Logging page to mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.


> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>  mentions that the project is EOL,
> but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and
> are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of
> the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
> notification on every page.
>
I added the EOL announcement to the top of all main pages in the Log4j 1
site.


> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe
> start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Remko
>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Remko Popma]

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2016/06/23, at 3:55, Ralph Goers  wrote:
> 
> Please let me know if http://wiki.apache.org/logging/ManagingTheWebSite 
> doesn’t have the answers you are looking for.
> 
> Ralph
> 
>> On Jun 22, 2016, at 8:15 AM, Gary Gregory  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Remko Popma  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 9:30 PM, Remko Popma  wrote:
 
 
> On Monday, 13 June 2016, Remko Popma  wrote:
> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of 
> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite 
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or 
> even how many Apache projects?
> 
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase 
> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
> 
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j. It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and 
> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other 
> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework page is 
> even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site has no explicit mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site mentions that the project is EOL, 
> but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and 
> are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention 
> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have 
> a notification on every page.  
  
 How can I update the Log4j 1 site and the Apache Logging site?
>>> 
>>> Seriously, is there a release procedure to follow here or should I just ssh 
>>> into the logging.apache.org server and modify the HTML?
>> 
>> I thought all sites where done through SVN these days and a CMS, like Apache 
>> Commons does: https://commons.apache.org/site-publish.html
>> 
>> Gary
>>  
>>>  
 
  
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be 
> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or 
> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? 
> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did 
> the conversion by name? Or some other way?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Remko
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org 
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>> Spring Batch in Action
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com 
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Ralph Goers]

Please let me know if http://wiki.apache.org/logging/ManagingTheWebSite 
 doesn’t have the answers 
you are looking for.

Ralph

> On Jun 22, 2016, at 8:15 AM, Gary Gregory  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Remko Popma  > wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 9:30 PM, Remko Popma  > wrote:
> 
> 
> On Monday, 13 June 2016, Remko Popma  > wrote:
> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of 
> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite 
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or 
> even how many Apache projects?
> 
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase our 
> uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
> 
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j . 
> It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. 
> That needs to be the other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java 
> logging framework  page 
> is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit 
> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site 
>  mentions that the project is EOL, but 
> it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and are 
> easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of the 
> EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a 
> notification on every page.  
>  
> How can I update the Log4j 1 site and the Apache Logging site?
> Seriously, is there a release procedure to follow here or should I just ssh 
> into the logging.apache.org  server and modify 
> the HTML?
> 
> I thought all sites where done through SVN these days and a CMS, like Apache 
> Commons does: https://commons.apache.org/site-publish.html 
> 
> 
> Gary
>  
>  
> 
>  
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be great 
> if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or tutorials 
> etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe 
> start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the 
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Remko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com  | 
> ggreg...@apache.org  
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition 
> 
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition 
> Spring Batch in Action 
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com  
> Home: http://garygregory.com/ 
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Gary Gregory]

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Remko Popma  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 9:30 PM, Remko Popma 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 13 June 2016, Remko Popma  wrote:
>>
>>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms
>>> of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>>> even how many Apache projects?
>>>
>>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>>
>>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>>  page is even
>>> worse.
>>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>>  mentions that the project is
>>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>>> notification on every page.
>>>
>>
>> How can I update the Log4j 1 site and the Apache Logging site?
>>
> Seriously, is there a release procedure to follow here or should I just
> ssh into the logging.apache.org server and modify the HTML?
>

I thought all sites where done through SVN these days and a CMS, like
Apache Commons does: https://commons.apache.org/site-publish.html

Gary


>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Remko
>>>
>>
>


-- 
E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition

JUnit in Action, Second Edition 
Spring Batch in Action 
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Remko Popma]

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 9:30 PM, Remko Popma  wrote:

>
>
> On Monday, 13 June 2016, Remko Popma  wrote:
>
>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
>> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>> even how many Apache projects?
>>
>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>
>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>  page is even
>> worse.
>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>  mentions that the project is
>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>> notification on every page.
>>
>
> How can I update the Log4j 1 site and the Apache Logging site?
>
Seriously, is there a release procedure to follow here or should I just ssh
into the logging.apache.org server and modify the HTML?


>
>
>
>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Remko
>>
>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Remko Popma]

On Monday, 13 June 2016, Remko Popma  wrote:

> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
> even how many Apache projects?
>
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>  page is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>  mentions that the project is EOL,
> but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and
> are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of
> the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
> notification on every page.
>

How can I update the Log4j 1 site and the Apache Logging site?



> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe
> start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Remko
>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

It would be 12:00 Central Time which would be midnight for you. In your
case, though, doing a presentation on vJUG24 <
http://www.meetup.com/virtualJUG/events/230866327/> might work rather well
as it's international at all times of the day and night.

On 18 June 2016 at 18:11, Remko Popma  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:18 AM, Matt Sicker  wrote:
>
>> I've already asked Ralph and now Gary, but let me pose the question
>> openly instead. Would any of you be interested in doing an online
>> presentation for Illinois JUG? Here's our meetup group: <
>> http://www.meetup.com/illinoisJUGvirtual/>.
>>
> I did a lightning talk about async logging (and a little bit on
>> garbage-free logging), and people seemed very interested. I'm thinking of
>> doing my own full presentation eventually on other features I'm more
>> familiar with, too, but I might just do those in-person instead of online.
>>
>> Presentations normally take place at noon central time and go for an hour.
>>
> Would love to but 12:00 Eastern Time (ET) is 1:00 AM Japan Standard Time
> (JST) so maybe not realistic. I should start working on a presentation
> though.
>
>
>>
>> On 13 June 2016 at 10:08, Gary Gregory  wrote:
>>
>>> I've done an in person preso at two JUG in Southern California that were
>>> well received. I did not think of recording them for YouTube though.
>>>
>>> Promoting within Apache and especially new projects would help IMO.
>>>
>>> I've also seen that folks do not know that Log4j 2 has a new modern
>>> architecture with an API. Better text on various sites like wikipedia and
>>> our own logging landing site might help.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> On Jun 13, 2016 7:56 AM, "Matt Sicker"  wrote:
>>>
 Oh, another thing that would help is doing presentations on log4j.
 Myself and a few others run a virtual java user group (and an in-person
 one) in Illinois that accepts presenters from around the world for
 instance. Then there's the London VirtualJUG as well which is super
 popular. Plus any local JUGs.

 On 13 June 2016 at 09:54, Matt Sicker  wrote:

> I've noticed a big problem is that people don't realize you can use
> log4j-api the same way you would normally use slf4j-api. Plus it doesn't
> help that tons of Apache projects are using SLF4J which makes it a sort of
> tacit endorsement of it over log4j-api.
>
> Some attention on sites like Reddit or StackOverflow might help.
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 09:52, Remko Popma  wrote:
>
>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in
>> terms of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption 
>> is
>> quite slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j
>> 2? Or even how many Apache projects?
>>
>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to
>> increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>
>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2
>> and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the
>> other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>  page is even
>> worse.
>> * The Apache Logging site  has no
>> explicit mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>  mentions that the project is
>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a 
>> mention
>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have 
>> a
>> notification on every page.
>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would
>> be great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts
>> or tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did 
>> the
>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Remko
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker 
>



 --
 Matt Sicker 

>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker 
>>
>
>


-- 
Matt Sicker 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

Great! Let me know when you'd be available to do one and I can start
arranging this with IJUG.

On 16 June 2016 at 00:08, Gary Gregory  wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Matt Sicker  wrote:
>
>> I've already asked Ralph and now Gary, but let me pose the question
>> openly instead. Would any of you be interested in doing an online
>> presentation for Illinois JUG?
>>
>
> I can do that sure.
>
> Gary
>
> Here's our meetup group: . I
>> did a lightning talk about async logging (and a little bit on garbage-free
>> logging), and people seemed very interested. I'm thinking of doing my own
>> full presentation eventually on other features I'm more familiar with, too,
>> but I might just do those in-person instead of online.
>>
>> Presentations normally take place at noon central time and go for an hour.
>>
>> On 13 June 2016 at 10:08, Gary Gregory  wrote:
>>
>>> I've done an in person preso at two JUG in Southern California that were
>>> well received. I did not think of recording them for YouTube though.
>>>
>>> Promoting within Apache and especially new projects would help IMO.
>>>
>>> I've also seen that folks do not know that Log4j 2 has a new modern
>>> architecture with an API. Better text on various sites like wikipedia and
>>> our own logging landing site might help.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> On Jun 13, 2016 7:56 AM, "Matt Sicker"  wrote:
>>>
 Oh, another thing that would help is doing presentations on log4j.
 Myself and a few others run a virtual java user group (and an in-person
 one) in Illinois that accepts presenters from around the world for
 instance. Then there's the London VirtualJUG as well which is super
 popular. Plus any local JUGs.

 On 13 June 2016 at 09:54, Matt Sicker  wrote:

> I've noticed a big problem is that people don't realize you can use
> log4j-api the same way you would normally use slf4j-api. Plus it doesn't
> help that tons of Apache projects are using SLF4J which makes it a sort of
> tacit endorsement of it over log4j-api.
>
> Some attention on sites like Reddit or StackOverflow might help.
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 09:52, Remko Popma  wrote:
>
>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in
>> terms of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption 
>> is
>> quite slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j
>> 2? Or even how many Apache projects?
>>
>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to
>> increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>
>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2
>> and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the
>> other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>  page is even
>> worse.
>> * The Apache Logging site  has no
>> explicit mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>  mentions that the project is
>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a 
>> mention
>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have 
>> a
>> notification on every page.
>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would
>> be great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts
>> or tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did 
>> the
>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Remko
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker 
>



 --
 Matt Sicker 

>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> 
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition 
> Spring Batch in Action 
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>



-- 
Matt Sicker 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Gary Gregory]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Matt Sicker  wrote:

> I've already asked Ralph and now Gary, but let me pose the question openly
> instead. Would any of you be interested in doing an online presentation for
> Illinois JUG?
>

I can do that sure.

Gary

Here's our meetup group: . I did
> a lightning talk about async logging (and a little bit on garbage-free
> logging), and people seemed very interested. I'm thinking of doing my own
> full presentation eventually on other features I'm more familiar with, too,
> but I might just do those in-person instead of online.
>
> Presentations normally take place at noon central time and go for an hour.
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 10:08, Gary Gregory  wrote:
>
>> I've done an in person preso at two JUG in Southern California that were
>> well received. I did not think of recording them for YouTube though.
>>
>> Promoting within Apache and especially new projects would help IMO.
>>
>> I've also seen that folks do not know that Log4j 2 has a new modern
>> architecture with an API. Better text on various sites like wikipedia and
>> our own logging landing site might help.
>>
>> Gary
>> On Jun 13, 2016 7:56 AM, "Matt Sicker"  wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, another thing that would help is doing presentations on log4j.
>>> Myself and a few others run a virtual java user group (and an in-person
>>> one) in Illinois that accepts presenters from around the world for
>>> instance. Then there's the London VirtualJUG as well which is super
>>> popular. Plus any local JUGs.
>>>
>>> On 13 June 2016 at 09:54, Matt Sicker  wrote:
>>>
 I've noticed a big problem is that people don't realize you can use
 log4j-api the same way you would normally use slf4j-api. Plus it doesn't
 help that tons of Apache projects are using SLF4J which makes it a sort of
 tacit endorsement of it over log4j-api.

 Some attention on sites like Reddit or StackOverflow might help.

 On 13 June 2016 at 09:52, Remko Popma  wrote:

> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms
> of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is 
> quite
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
> even how many Apache projects?
>
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to
> increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2
> and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the
> other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>  page is even
> worse.
> * The Apache Logging site  has no
> explicit mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>  mentions that the project is
> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a 
> mention
> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
> notification on every page.
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would
> be great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts
> or tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did 
> the
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Remko
>



 --
 Matt Sicker 

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker 
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker 
>



-- 
E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition

JUnit in Action, Second Edition 
Spring Batch in Action 
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Remko Popma]

On Tuesday, 14 June 2016, Ralph Goers  wrote:

> The biggest complaints we seem to be getting are about the effort in
> transitioning from Log4j 1.x to 2.  To be fair, they would have the same
> amount of effort to transition to anything.  I believe someone created a
> tool to help convert Log4j 1.x configuration to Log4j 2 format.  At the
> very least we should link to that. If possible, we should consider
> incorporating it into our web site.
>
> What has been encouraging to me is the activity on Stack Overflow.  As of
> right now I get 3,162 Log4j 2 questions vs 12,425 SLF4J questions and 6,581
> Logback questions.  Both SLF4J and Logback have been around far longer.  I
> think our participation there has really helped.
>
> OTOH, the discussion on the Commons Dev list was rather disappointing.
>

It bugs me when bloggers still write about Log4j-1.2, like this recent
one:  http://goo.gl/fb/MD4Pe5

I've added a constructive comment (currently still under moderation) in the
hope he'll focus future efforts on Log4j 2...


> Ralph
>
>
> On Jun 13, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Remko Popma  > wrote:
>
> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
> even how many Apache projects?
>
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>  page is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>  mentions that the project is EOL,
> but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and
> are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of
> the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
> notification on every page.
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe
> start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Remko
>
>
>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Remko Popma]

On Tuesday, 14 June 2016, Matt Sicker  wrote:

> Shall we add links to those on our site?
>
We should check that they actually work :-) but yes, that's a good idea.
Maybe also add Logback Migration and JUL Migration pages.

>
> On 13 June 2016 at 12:57, Ralph Goers  > wrote:
>
>> http://log4j-props2xml.appspot.com/
>> https://github.com/jroyals/log4j-properties-converter/
>>
>> https://github.com/mulesoft-labs/log4j2-migrator
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Matt Sicker > > wrote:
>>
>> What would be neat would be a tool like this one:
>> http://logback.qos.ch/translator/
>>
>> On 13 June 2016 at 12:08, Gary Gregory > > wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Ralph Goers <
>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
 The biggest complaints we seem to be getting are about the effort in
 transitioning from Log4j 1.x to 2.  To be fair, they would have the same
 amount of effort to transition to anything.  I believe someone created a
 tool to help convert Log4j 1.x configuration to Log4j 2 format.

>>>
>>> Note that I started an effort to read Log4j 1 configuration files,
>>> please see org.apache.log4j.config.Log4j1ConfigurationFactory. It is
>>> minimal but it is a start. My longer term plan is to use that to help
>>> migrate my work app server from Log4j 1 to 2 with less friction from our
>>> tools group and users.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>
 At the very least we should link to that. If possible, we should
 consider incorporating it into our web site.

 What has been encouraging to me is the activity on Stack Overflow.  As
 of right now I get 3,162 Log4j 2 questions vs 12,425 SLF4J questions and
 6,581 Logback questions.  Both SLF4J and Logback have been around far
 longer.  I think our participation there has really helped.

 OTOH, the discussion on the Commons Dev list was rather disappointing.

 Ralph


 On Jun 13, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Remko Popma > wrote:

 In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms
 of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
 slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
 even how many Apache projects?

 I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to
 increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:

 * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
 . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
 mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
 way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
  page is even
 worse.
 * The Apache Logging site  has no
 explicit mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
 * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
  mentions that the project is
 EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
 and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
 of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
 notification on every page.
 * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
 great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
 tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
 * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
 Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
 conversion by name? Or some other way?

 Thoughts?

 Remko



>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com
>>>  | 
>>> ggreg...@apache.org
>>> 
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> 
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition 
>>> Spring Batch in Action 
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker > >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker  >
>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

Shall we add links to those on our site?

On 13 June 2016 at 12:57, Ralph Goers  wrote:

> http://log4j-props2xml.appspot.com/
> https://github.com/jroyals/log4j-properties-converter/
>
> https://github.com/mulesoft-labs/log4j2-migrator
>
> Ralph
>
>
> On Jun 13, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Matt Sicker  wrote:
>
> What would be neat would be a tool like this one:
> http://logback.qos.ch/translator/
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 12:08, Gary Gregory  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Ralph Goers > > wrote:
>>
>>> The biggest complaints we seem to be getting are about the effort in
>>> transitioning from Log4j 1.x to 2.  To be fair, they would have the same
>>> amount of effort to transition to anything.  I believe someone created a
>>> tool to help convert Log4j 1.x configuration to Log4j 2 format.
>>>
>>
>> Note that I started an effort to read Log4j 1 configuration files, please
>> see org.apache.log4j.config.Log4j1ConfigurationFactory. It is minimal but
>> it is a start. My longer term plan is to use that to help migrate my work
>> app server from Log4j 1 to 2 with less friction from our tools group and
>> users.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>> At the very least we should link to that. If possible, we should
>>> consider incorporating it into our web site.
>>>
>>> What has been encouraging to me is the activity on Stack Overflow.  As
>>> of right now I get 3,162 Log4j 2 questions vs 12,425 SLF4J questions and
>>> 6,581 Logback questions.  Both SLF4J and Logback have been around far
>>> longer.  I think our participation there has really helped.
>>>
>>> OTOH, the discussion on the Commons Dev list was rather disappointing.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Remko Popma  wrote:
>>>
>>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms
>>> of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>>> even how many Apache projects?
>>>
>>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>>
>>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>>  page is even
>>> worse.
>>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>>  mentions that the project is
>>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>>> notification on every page.
>>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Remko
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> 
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition 
>> Spring Batch in Action 
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker 
>
>
>


-- 
Matt Sicker 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Ralph Goers]

http://log4j-props2xml.appspot.com/  
https://github.com/jroyals/log4j-properties-converter/ 


https://github.com/mulesoft-labs/log4j2-migrator 


Ralph


> On Jun 13, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Matt Sicker  wrote:
> 
> What would be neat would be a tool like this one: 
> http://logback.qos.ch/translator/ 
> 
> On 13 June 2016 at 12:08, Gary Gregory  > wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Ralph Goers  > wrote:
> The biggest complaints we seem to be getting are about the effort in 
> transitioning from Log4j 1.x to 2.  To be fair, they would have the same 
> amount of effort to transition to anything.  I believe someone created a tool 
> to help convert Log4j 1.x configuration to Log4j 2 format.  
> 
> Note that I started an effort to read Log4j 1 configuration files, please see 
> org.apache.log4j.config.Log4j1ConfigurationFactory. It is minimal but it is a 
> start. My longer term plan is to use that to help migrate my work app server 
> from Log4j 1 to 2 with less friction from our tools group and users.
> 
> Gary
>  
> At the very least we should link to that. If possible, we should consider 
> incorporating it into our web site.
> 
> What has been encouraging to me is the activity on Stack Overflow.  As of 
> right now I get 3,162 Log4j 2 questions vs 12,425 SLF4J questions and 6,581 
> Logback questions.  Both SLF4J and Logback have been around far longer.  I 
> think our participation there has really helped.
> 
> OTOH, the discussion on the Commons Dev list was rather disappointing.  
> 
> Ralph
> 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Remko Popma > > wrote:
>> 
>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of 
>> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite 
>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or 
>> even how many Apache projects?
>> 
>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase our 
>> uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>> 
>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j . 
>> It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a 
>> footnote. That needs to be the other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia 
>> Java logging framework 
>>  page is even worse.
>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit 
>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site 
>>  mentions that the project is EOL, 
>> but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and are 
>> easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of the 
>> EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a 
>> notification on every page.  
>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be 
>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or 
>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe 
>> start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the 
>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> Remko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com  | 
> ggreg...@apache.org  
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition 
> 
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition 
> Spring Batch in Action 
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com  
> Home: http://garygregory.com/ 
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Matt Sicker >

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

What would be neat would be a tool like this one:
http://logback.qos.ch/translator/

On 13 June 2016 at 12:08, Gary Gregory  wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Ralph Goers 
> wrote:
>
>> The biggest complaints we seem to be getting are about the effort in
>> transitioning from Log4j 1.x to 2.  To be fair, they would have the same
>> amount of effort to transition to anything.  I believe someone created a
>> tool to help convert Log4j 1.x configuration to Log4j 2 format.
>>
>
> Note that I started an effort to read Log4j 1 configuration files, please
> see org.apache.log4j.config.Log4j1ConfigurationFactory. It is minimal but
> it is a start. My longer term plan is to use that to help migrate my work
> app server from Log4j 1 to 2 with less friction from our tools group and
> users.
>
> Gary
>
>
>> At the very least we should link to that. If possible, we should consider
>> incorporating it into our web site.
>>
>> What has been encouraging to me is the activity on Stack Overflow.  As of
>> right now I get 3,162 Log4j 2 questions vs 12,425 SLF4J questions and 6,581
>> Logback questions.  Both SLF4J and Logback have been around far longer.  I
>> think our participation there has really helped.
>>
>> OTOH, the discussion on the Commons Dev list was rather disappointing.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Remko Popma  wrote:
>>
>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
>> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>> even how many Apache projects?
>>
>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>
>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>  page is even
>> worse.
>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>  mentions that the project is
>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>> notification on every page.
>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Remko
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> 
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition 
> Spring Batch in Action 
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>



-- 
Matt Sicker 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Gary Gregory]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Ralph Goers 
wrote:

> The biggest complaints we seem to be getting are about the effort in
> transitioning from Log4j 1.x to 2.  To be fair, they would have the same
> amount of effort to transition to anything.  I believe someone created a
> tool to help convert Log4j 1.x configuration to Log4j 2 format.
>

Note that I started an effort to read Log4j 1 configuration files, please
see org.apache.log4j.config.Log4j1ConfigurationFactory. It is minimal but
it is a start. My longer term plan is to use that to help migrate my work
app server from Log4j 1 to 2 with less friction from our tools group and
users.

Gary


> At the very least we should link to that. If possible, we should consider
> incorporating it into our web site.
>
> What has been encouraging to me is the activity on Stack Overflow.  As of
> right now I get 3,162 Log4j 2 questions vs 12,425 SLF4J questions and 6,581
> Logback questions.  Both SLF4J and Logback have been around far longer.  I
> think our participation there has really helped.
>
> OTOH, the discussion on the Commons Dev list was rather disappointing.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> On Jun 13, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Remko Popma  wrote:
>
> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
> even how many Apache projects?
>
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>  page is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>  mentions that the project is EOL,
> but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and
> are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of
> the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
> notification on every page.
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe
> start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Remko
>
>
>


-- 
E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition

JUnit in Action, Second Edition 
Spring Batch in Action 
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Ralph Goers]

The biggest complaints we seem to be getting are about the effort in 
transitioning from Log4j 1.x to 2.  To be fair, they would have the same amount 
of effort to transition to anything.  I believe someone created a tool to help 
convert Log4j 1.x configuration to Log4j 2 format.  At the very least we should 
link to that. If possible, we should consider incorporating it into our web 
site.

What has been encouraging to me is the activity on Stack Overflow.  As of right 
now I get 3,162 Log4j 2 questions vs 12,425 SLF4J questions and 6,581 Logback 
questions.  Both SLF4J and Logback have been around far longer.  I think our 
participation there has really helped.

OTOH, the discussion on the Commons Dev list was rather disappointing.  

Ralph


> On Jun 13, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Remko Popma  wrote:
> 
> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of 
> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite 
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or 
> even how many Apache projects?
> 
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase our 
> uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
> 
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j . 
> It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. 
> That needs to be the other way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java 
> logging framework  page 
> is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit 
> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site 
>  mentions that the project is EOL, but 
> it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and are 
> easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of the 
> EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a 
> notification on every page.  
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be great 
> if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or tutorials 
> etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe 
> start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the 
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Remko

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Mikael Ståldal]

And to make things worse, some Apache projects (in particular Zookeeper)
even uses SLF4J with a specific binding (Log4j 1 in this case) as a
dependency, which makes it a P.I.T.A. to use it with Log4j 2 (or with any
other logging framework such as Logback for that matter).

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Matt Sicker  wrote:

> I've noticed a big problem is that people don't realize you can use
> log4j-api the same way you would normally use slf4j-api. Plus it doesn't
> help that tons of Apache projects are using SLF4J which makes it a sort of
> tacit endorsement of it over log4j-api.
>
> Some attention on sites like Reddit or StackOverflow might help.
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 09:52, Remko Popma  wrote:
>
>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
>> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>> even how many Apache projects?
>>
>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>
>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>  page is even
>> worse.
>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>  mentions that the project is
>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>> notification on every page.
>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Remko
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker 
>



-- 
[image: MagineTV]

*Mikael Ståldal*
Senior software developer

*Magine TV*
mikael.stal...@magine.com
Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com

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Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

I've already asked Ralph and now Gary, but let me pose the question openly
instead. Would any of you be interested in doing an online presentation for
Illinois JUG? Here's our meetup group: <
http://www.meetup.com/illinoisJUGvirtual/>. I did a lightning talk about
async logging (and a little bit on garbage-free logging), and people seemed
very interested. I'm thinking of doing my own full presentation eventually
on other features I'm more familiar with, too, but I might just do those
in-person instead of online.

Presentations normally take place at noon central time and go for an hour.

On 13 June 2016 at 10:08, Gary Gregory  wrote:

> I've done an in person preso at two JUG in Southern California that were
> well received. I did not think of recording them for YouTube though.
>
> Promoting within Apache and especially new projects would help IMO.
>
> I've also seen that folks do not know that Log4j 2 has a new modern
> architecture with an API. Better text on various sites like wikipedia and
> our own logging landing site might help.
>
> Gary
> On Jun 13, 2016 7:56 AM, "Matt Sicker"  wrote:
>
>> Oh, another thing that would help is doing presentations on log4j. Myself
>> and a few others run a virtual java user group (and an in-person one) in
>> Illinois that accepts presenters from around the world for instance. Then
>> there's the London VirtualJUG as well which is super popular. Plus any
>> local JUGs.
>>
>> On 13 June 2016 at 09:54, Matt Sicker  wrote:
>>
>>> I've noticed a big problem is that people don't realize you can use
>>> log4j-api the same way you would normally use slf4j-api. Plus it doesn't
>>> help that tons of Apache projects are using SLF4J which makes it a sort of
>>> tacit endorsement of it over log4j-api.
>>>
>>> Some attention on sites like Reddit or StackOverflow might help.
>>>
>>> On 13 June 2016 at 09:52, Remko Popma  wrote:
>>>
 In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms
 of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
 slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
 even how many Apache projects?

 I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to
 increase our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:

 * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
 . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
 mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
 way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
  page is even
 worse.
 * The Apache Logging site  has no
 explicit mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
 * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
  mentions that the project is
 EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
 and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
 of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
 notification on every page.
 * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
 great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
 tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
 * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
 Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
 conversion by name? Or some other way?

 Thoughts?

 Remko

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker 
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker 
>>
>


-- 
Matt Sicker 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Gary Gregory]

I've done an in person preso at two JUG in Southern California that were
well received. I did not think of recording them for YouTube though.

Promoting within Apache and especially new projects would help IMO.

I've also seen that folks do not know that Log4j 2 has a new modern
architecture with an API. Better text on various sites like wikipedia and
our own logging landing site might help.

Gary
On Jun 13, 2016 7:56 AM, "Matt Sicker"  wrote:

> Oh, another thing that would help is doing presentations on log4j. Myself
> and a few others run a virtual java user group (and an in-person one) in
> Illinois that accepts presenters from around the world for instance. Then
> there's the London VirtualJUG as well which is super popular. Plus any
> local JUGs.
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 09:54, Matt Sicker  wrote:
>
>> I've noticed a big problem is that people don't realize you can use
>> log4j-api the same way you would normally use slf4j-api. Plus it doesn't
>> help that tons of Apache projects are using SLF4J which makes it a sort of
>> tacit endorsement of it over log4j-api.
>>
>> Some attention on sites like Reddit or StackOverflow might help.
>>
>> On 13 June 2016 at 09:52, Remko Popma  wrote:
>>
>>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms
>>> of feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>>> even how many Apache projects?
>>>
>>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>>
>>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>>  page is even
>>> worse.
>>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>>  mentions that the project is
>>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>>> notification on every page.
>>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Remko
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker 
>

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

Oh, another thing that would help is doing presentations on log4j. Myself
and a few others run a virtual java user group (and an in-person one) in
Illinois that accepts presenters from around the world for instance. Then
there's the London VirtualJUG as well which is super popular. Plus any
local JUGs.

On 13 June 2016 at 09:54, Matt Sicker  wrote:

> I've noticed a big problem is that people don't realize you can use
> log4j-api the same way you would normally use slf4j-api. Plus it doesn't
> help that tons of Apache projects are using SLF4J which makes it a sort of
> tacit endorsement of it over log4j-api.
>
> Some attention on sites like Reddit or StackOverflow might help.
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 09:52, Remko Popma  wrote:
>
>> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
>> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
>> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
>> even how many Apache projects?
>>
>> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
>> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>>
>> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
>> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
>> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
>> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>>  page is even
>> worse.
>> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
>> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
>> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>>  mentions that the project is
>> EOL, but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out
>> and are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention
>> of the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
>> notification on every page.
>> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
>> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
>> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
>> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2?
>> Maybe start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
>> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Remko
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker 
>



-- 
Matt Sicker 

Re: log4j2 evangelism

[Matt Sicker]

I've noticed a big problem is that people don't realize you can use
log4j-api the same way you would normally use slf4j-api. Plus it doesn't
help that tons of Apache projects are using SLF4J which makes it a sort of
tacit endorsement of it over log4j-api.

Some attention on sites like Reddit or StackOverflow might help.

On 13 June 2016 at 09:52, Remko Popma  wrote:

> In spite of the fact that Log4j 2 has a very compelling story in terms of
> feature set and performance, I get the impression that adoption is quite
> slow. I could be wrong, but how many open source projects use Log4j 2? Or
> even how many Apache projects?
>
> I propose we try to generate some ideas about what we can do to increase
> our uptake. Some things I've been thinking about:
>
> * Rewrite the Wikipedia page on Log4j
> . It's mostly about Log4j 1.2 and
> mentions Log4j 2 at the bottom in a footnote. That needs to be the other
> way around in my opinion. The Wikipedia Java logging framework
>  page is even worse.
> * The Apache Logging site  has no explicit
> mention that Log4j 1 is EOL.
> * Only the top page on the Log4j 1 site
>  mentions that the project is EOL,
> but it does so in two modest sentences that don't visually stick out and
> are easily ignored. At the very least the download page needs a mention of
> the EOL and a link to the Log4j 2 project, but it may be good to have a
> notification on every page.
> * Can we get other people involved in evangelizing log4j 2? It would be
> great if we can make more people enthusiastic so they write blog posts or
> tutorials etc about Log4j 2.
> * How can we incentivise people to convert their project to Log4j 2? Maybe
> start a page on Projects Using Log4j 2 and mention people who did the
> conversion by name? Or some other way?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Remko
>



-- 
Matt Sicker