RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Simon Fogarty]

Bloody crazy, Sydney is the last place I’d go again.

Melbourne however is a totally different story.



From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Sunday, 26 June 2016 2:53 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hi again Simon.

My nephew, Ewan qualified as a Constructural Engineer, some two  years before 
the Christ-Church disaster and told me he was thinking of going to Sidney 
Austraillia to work.

I advised him as strongly as I could to consider Christ-Church as a volunteer, 
just after the disaster, adding that this would set him up to no end, if later 
he required Citizenship.

Very surprisingly, he told me that he was going to Sidney because this was 
where the money was.

Despite my attempts to convey to him the value of Brownie Points, especially 
during a natural disaster episode, he stuck to his guns and is now working 
happily in Sydney.

Now, if that was me, I'd have offered my assistance to the authorities at the 
time and you know what, I'd be well tucked in by now.  Foolish him eh?

Andy.
- Original Message -
From: Simon Fogarty<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hi Andy, glad you could take the joke,

Yeah Christchurch isn’t much to look at these days and yeah it like Dunedin is 
approx. 2500 Km away from the prison islands east coast  Sydney / Melbourne.
Brisbain is a bit further cause it is up hill.
Dunedin is approx. 400 Km south of Christchurch,
And currently full of foreigners either welsh or outside of Dunedin, we’ve  got 
the wales rugby team and all blacks playing tonight here in town,

As for austrailia
 It’s a prison island sitting in the sun baking away.
Can’t say lot more as it’s not worth talking about really.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 8:33 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hoy partner.

I was just the other day talking with a friend from the South Island of New 
Zeland.  Of course we think of you but I'm as guilty as my european friends to 
attach you to Austrailia, despite knowing that Christchurch is hundreds of 
miles away.

Many people think I'm English but I'm not.  I just live close by.

And I never had a kilt in my life.  Too cold here around the trosucks!

Andy.


- Original Message -
From: Simon Fogarty<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 10:26 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.
What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,

Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.

Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hi all.

I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists , 
concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in Britain 
America, Canada and Australia.
Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
Europe!

In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as they 
are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my American 
friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a vicctory for my 
little country..

However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that almost 
every one else voted to leave.

I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud Euro 
pean.

Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..

To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back on 
Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it and 
have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to work 
voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out to help 
us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to welcome all 
workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scotti

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Andrew Lamanche]

ve lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to
>> work voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out
>> to help us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to
>> welcome all workers and visitors from all over the world to make the
>> Scottish Experience a reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and
>> valuable experience for them.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that
>> the UK has voted to leave the EU.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with
>> the result of last nights vote.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Does he have no P. A. staff:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the
>> beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning
>> her back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most
>> powerful man in the world.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends,
>> I’m very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that
>> there is nothing wrong with that!
>> 
>> No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind
>> community and I’m proud of that also.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of
>> turmoile.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's
>> a promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special
>> relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be
>> tossed aside by the likes of Trump!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Very best wishes as always.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.
>> 
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Kawal Gucukoglu
>>  To: Macvisionaries
>>  Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM
>>  Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>> 
>> 
>>  So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland
>> so where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?
>> 
>> 
>>  I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks
>> to our livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was
>> worth people losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and
>> upset because of some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I
>> said and on TV at the moment there are those who are still arguing as to
>> what happens next and the rest of the EU saying that there will be
>> consequences.  How can the world heal, come together and be more tolerant?
>> Then Mr Trump changing his tune to fit the circumstances.  American are also
>> in some difficulty as the Democrats had a sitting in congress to get gun
>> laws but the republicans say no so there is no unity in the world and at
>> present I am worried about how things will pan out for the world.  Sorry
>> this is pessimistic but I live for the long term and not the short.  I am a
>> deep person and take seriously the world’s problems to heart.
>> 
>> 
>>  Kawal.
>> 
>> 
>>On 24 Jun 2016, at 13:05, CHUCK REICHEL
>> <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>Hi Scott,
>>Sorry to hear about your loss. :(
>>As for England I also will raise a frosty mug of Sam adams and celebrate
>> and wait till "november" here in the USA for the same!
>>GOD Bless America!
>>Home of Apple! :)
>>Talk soon
>>Chuck
>> 
>>On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:58 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>  Well I’ve been riveted watching this all day, I’m going on 24 hours
>> here, it’s also a welcome distraction to some really really bad stuff
>> happening on my family level right now so forgive me if I use your country’s
>> politics as a distraction.:)  My grandmother oddly enough who is the
>> connection to Britain for me passed after 96 years on this rock and it’s all
>> closing in on me now that I am only one of 3 left in our family and the
>> other 2 are on the shorter end of th

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Kawal, you’re being influenced by that propaganda again.

 

If trump wins or if Hillary wins we’re screwed.  Each in individually unique 
and horrible ways but nobody wins either way.  At least trump isn’t on the 
payroll of the rest of the world’s Governments.  I’d rather Trump in the white 
house than the Saudi royal family.  But that’s like saying I’d rather be shot 
than drowned.  The result is the same.

 

As for the press, it’s in the bag for Hillary just as Google is in the bag for 
Hillary and manipulating search results to support her.  The media in the US 
especially is a mouth piece for the administration so you can’t take what they 
say with much value unless you watch and read a lot of sources and try to sort 
through it.

 

 

 

From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kawal Gucukoglu 
<kgli...@icloud.com>
Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, June 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM
To: Macvisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

Don’t forget, if Donald Trump gets elected, how will the world handle that as 
thus far he has not had a good press!

On 24 Jun 2016, at 22:26, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:

 

Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.

What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,

 

Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.

 

Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

Hi all.

 

I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists , 
concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in Britain 
America, Canada and Australia.

Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
Europe!

 

In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as they 
are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my American 
friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a vicctory for my 
little country..

 

However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that almost 
every one else voted to leave.

  

I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud Euro 
pean.

 

Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..  

 

To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back on 
Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it and 
have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to work 
voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out to help 
us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to welcome all 
workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scottish Experience a 
reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for 
them.

 

Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that 
the UK has voted to leave the EU.

 

He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with the 
result of last nights vote.

 

Does he have no P. A. staff:

 

Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the 
beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.

 

But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning her 
back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most powerful 
man in the world.

 

As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends, I’m 
very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that there 
is nothing wrong with that!

No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind 
community and I’m proud of that also.

 

So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of turmoile.

 

We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's a 
promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special 
relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be 
tossed aside by the likes of Trump!

 

 

 

Very best wishes as always.

 

Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.

- Original Message -

From: Kawal Gucukoglu

To: Macvisionaries

Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM

Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?  

 

Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Whoa man I should have read this first.

I don’t think it’s ugly though, nobody should be afraid of ugly.  If it’s to 
off topic that’s fine but ugly shouldn’t scare anyone and btw I think this has 
been very level headed and everyone has conducted themselves very well.  I’m 
surprised for example I haven’t made one pipe reference.:)

You and Kara are way way way way to sensitive and that’s not just from me.

Nobody lives in a rated G world and nobody wants to.  That’s like being spoon 
fed childrens PBS programming until you puke and then being expected to like 
it.:)

But if it’s to off topic I’m happy to continue with anyone off list or on my 
own list if there’s interest.  I’ve found the topic very interesting, learned a 
fair bit, argued a fair bit and enjoyed it greatly.

And for what it’s worth, I do thank you both for letting it go as far as it did 
even if I think your filters are set a little finely reasonable people have 
different views and it’s your house as it were.:)


On 6/24/16, 8:30 PM, "M. Taylor" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com on behalf of 
mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I would like to see this thread closed before it turns, well, ugly, so to 
speak.  

Thank you,

Mark

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:42 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

God help the world if he does.

I think I’ll move to mars, surely they have a hotel up there by now.

Wonder if they’ll have wifi though!?


But after some of his recent comments surely someone will  do something first.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 9:34 AM
To: Macvisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Don’t forget, if Donald Trump gets elected, how will the world handle that as 
thus far he has not had a good press!
On 24 Jun 2016, at 22:26, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:

Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.
What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,
 
Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.
 
Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
 
Hi all.
 
I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists , 
concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in Britain 
America, Canada and Australia.
Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
Europe!
 
In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as they 
are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my American 
friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a vicctory for my 
little country..
 
However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that almost 
every one else voted to leave.
  
I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud Euro 
pean.
 
Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..  
 
To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back on 
Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it and 
have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to work 
voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out to help 
us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to welcome all 
workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scottish Experience a 
reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for 
them.
 
Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that 
the UK has voted to leave the EU.
 
He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with the 
result of last nights vote.
 
Does he have no P. A. staff:
 
Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the 
beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.
 
But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning her 
back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most powerful 
man in the world.
 
As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends, I’m 
very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that there 
is nothing wrong with that!
No matter the future, I 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Oh I disagree somewhat.  At least he’s not a criminal.

That’s not saying much but it’s something.

And DT won’t move in to the white house, that’s to much of a step down.  His 
house in West Palm is so much nicer. Not to mention his 747 is much nicer than 
airforce 1.  No he won’t need public housing assistance.:)


On 6/24/16, 5:43 PM, "E.T." <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com on behalf of 
ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:

If DT should have the luck to move into the White House "God Bless 
America" will be changed to oh I cannot say it on a public list.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 2:34 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> Don’t forget, if Donald Trump gets elected, how will the world handle
> that as thus far he has not had a good press!
>> On 24 Jun 2016, at 22:26, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com
>> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.
>> What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,
>>
>> Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.
>>
>> Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!
>>
>> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>  *On
>> Behalf Of *Andy
>> *Sent:* Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other
>> lists , concerned with the blind community , which include all of my
>> friends in Britain America, Canada and Australia.
>> Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to
>> leave Europe!
>>
>> In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to
>> remain with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep
>> things as they are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so
>> pleas, to my American friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish,
>> the result was a vicctory for my little country..
>>
>> However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems
>> that almost every one else voted to leave.
>>
>> I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally
>> proud Euro pean.
>>
>> Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,
>> to be European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my
>> English naibours and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once
>> more..
>>
>> To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my
>> back on Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and
>> proud of it and have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend
>> to volunteer to work voluntary with the Scottish National Party and
>> intend to work flat out to help us make our country remain as a part
>> of Europe, and continue to welcome all workers and visitors from all
>> over the world to make the Scottish Experience a reality for them, and
>> above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for them.
>>
>> Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his
>> delight that the UK has voted to leave the EU.
>>
>> He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated
>> with the result of last nights vote.
>>
>> Does he have no P. A. staff:
>>
>> Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked
>> the beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.
>>
>> But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into
>> turning her back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump
>> as the most powerful man in the world.
>>
>> As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian
>> friends, I’m very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you
>> will agree, that there is nothing wrong with that!
>> No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special
>> blind community and I’m proud of that also.
>>
>> So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of
>> turmoile.
>>
>> We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and
>> that's a promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our
>> special relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable
>> and not to be tossed aside by the likes of Trump!
&g

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Don’t get me started on how the NFL has been emasculated.

Rugby is where it’s at.  No weak protective equipment, that’s for the pansies.  
And beer, lots of beer.


On 6/24/16, 5:23 PM, "Simon Fogarty" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com on behalf 
of si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:

I'll apologise to any welsh on the list,

 Not only have you been dragged out of the EU, but your butts will be kicked 
again this evening by the all blacks, but hey, not everyone can be the best in 
the world.
And our sports teams don't ware pads like those wimpy NFL American football 
players!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 4:23 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Correction on the US stock market. The app did not refresh when I first 
looked. Its in negative territory over 500 points down.

Now I will head out and get some coffee. Too early to hoist a pint.

Perhaps the weekend will find some sort of rebound for many of us.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 7:08 AM, E.T. wrote:
>Normally I would say its way off topic but this is something that 
> can have a huge impact on us all. It was predicted the stock markets 
> would feel pain but here in the US there is no sign of that.
>
>Come November though, that could be a different story. I can wait, 
> though just like pulling a tooth, lets get it over with and move on.
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 6/24/2016 6:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> We could learn something from your secular example!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I would also like to thank the Moderators for allowing this thread 
>> which is terribly off topic to continue.  We probably should wrap it 
>> up but I do thank Mark and Kara for allowing it go this far.  I think 
>> it was important and I also think it was important to say that a lot 
>> of us here didn’t agree with the meddling in your affairs either.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you Moderators and thanks everyone for the spirited discussion.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
>> <a...@anarchie.org.uk>
>> *Reply-To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> *Date: *Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:41 AM
>> *To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Sabahattin,
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:55, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com
>> <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of
>> need for a kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so
>> efficient and socially competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my
>> taste.  My own experience with the NHS (but not for a transplant)
>> has been truly wonderful, so your story makes me sad.  Now we’re
>> out, presumably we won’t see any more of that wonderful efficiency
>> from across the channel.
>>
>> I was actually refused dialysis even though I was suffering horribly 
>> with so much fluid retention that moisture was seeping through my skin.
>> A very compassionate doctor eventually got me onto a dialysis machine 
>> and saved my life.
>>
>>
>>
>> The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like 
>> visible signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state 
>> is officially secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims 
>> in France which is almost a tenth of the population. Of course, 
>> France has its share of bigots of all kinds, just like everywhere else.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Anne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archiv

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Andy, that was pretty even handed of an explaination, well done.

I would just say we have a similar immigration issue here and it is not 
heartless to expect people to immigrate with some sort of process.  These same 
open borders nut jobs want us in the US to let anyone in with out examination.  
They want to dictate to us how we should run our country.  And while it looks 
great on paper to be all open and free love and all that, it’s extremely 
unsafe.  These middle eastern migrants you speak of have Daesh members 
sprinkled in.  You’d think with recent events Brussels would get that but they 
don’t.  You can set off a bomb right under a progressives house and they still 
won’t acknowledge it’s an external terrorist threat.
Also to be fair, I feel my country is more responsible for the mess in 
the middle east than yours.  W. Bush got us in to unwanted and unneeded 
entanglements just to settle the score for  Daddy and then Obama proceeded to 
walk away from the real justified war and let what happened in Libia and Siria 
grow out of control.  Not to mention we just don’t deal with the real threat 
which is the Saudis and their funding of all this madness.  Not to mention my 
own country funding both sides at times and just involving itself where it 
shouldn’t.  You British did what you do, you sided with us, just like I hope we 
would side with you if you asked for help.  Sure Tony Blayer bought Bushes 
story hook, line and sinker but you were sold a bill of goods by us.



On 6/24/16, 4:22 PM, "Andy" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com on behalf of 
meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:

hi Vaughn.

It really sounds crazy, but last nights vote has taken all of the UK's four 
nations, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, out of Europe without 
Scotland having it's say.

Hardly anyone in the UK  would have put money on Brittan leaving the 
European Community last night, so to be honest, we did not see it coming,, 
until we woke this morning.

To be fair on England, they have had more than their shair of refugees and 
this is causing terrible problems in a local sense, regarding, housing, 
medical care, education and so on.  The English therefor, are too some 
extent justifyed in expressing their concerns with this diminished lack of 
local provision, but in doing so makes them look heartless and uncaring, as 
many of these refugees are coming from the middle east.  A problem I may add 
of our Governments own making.


This represents very poor forward planning from our polititions, who will 
enter into conflict and not give a thought to the future commitments or 
responsibilities of their actions


On the opposing side  however, my First Minister, Miss Nicola Sturgen, is 
welcoming all new comers to Scotland as do I as we need professional young 
staff to run this country, after we are gone, so all are welcome.
Very best wishes.
Andy.



- Original Message - 
From: "Vaughn Brown" <jazzdress...@gmail.com>
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
Andy,

This conversation has been fascinating to me from a historical pointof 
view -- and it sounds like the Scottish are not pleased with
Britain politically speaking. Who cares about the golf course? That
trip of his made me upset. But American ignorance aside, educate us on
how Scottish is impacted. It seems to me that Scotland is still part
of Europe but that Britain has left the union. I understand the world
financial influence. When I think of the UK, or Great Britain, I think
of England, Wales, and Scotland. With Scotland's not wanting to
divorce from the EU, what does this mean? And what about Wales?
It sounds like England was the one to dodge out.
Thank you for the education and clarification.

Vaughn

On 6/24/16, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Hi all.
>
>
>
> I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other 
> lists
> , concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in
> Britain America, Canada and Australia.
>
> Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave
> Europe!
>
>
>
> In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to 
> remain
> with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as
> they are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my
> American friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a
> vicctory for my little country..
>
>
>
> However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that
> almost every one else voted to leave.
>
>
>
> I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud
> Euro pean.
>
>
>
> Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be
> European

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

What I heard was proposed and correct me if I’m wrong is removing the border 
between north and south and having Ireland break away as a unit and rejoin the 
EU.  The problem from what I understand is the unionists will not support that. 
 Ireland is an issue I do not know much about.  I know there was a lot of 
unrest there and a lot of that was resolved in recent years.  I also know that 
I have worked with companies in Ireland and you have some very good engineers 
there.  You also have very good tax rates.  Isn’t Northern Ireland considered 
the silicon valley of Europe or am I wrong there?  I think Apple and Google 
have large presence there.

 


On 6/24/16, 5:37 PM, "Simon Fogarty" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com on behalf 
of si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:

Hi Andy,

 Ireleand are still in the EU, northern Ireland were the effected forth state 
of the UK,

 But I heard something lastnight about and excuse the spelling, shin fain being 
a bit concerned about how this may effect the current peace between those in  
northern Ireland.

We've just gotta hope that unrest doesn't start up again.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 8:22 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

hi Vaughn.

It really sounds crazy, but last nights vote has taken all of the UK's four 
nations, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, out of Europe without Scotland 
having it's say.

Hardly anyone in the UK  would have put money on Brittan leaving the European 
Community last night, so to be honest, we did not see it coming,, until we woke 
this morning.

To be fair on England, they have had more than their shair of refugees and this 
is causing terrible problems in a local sense, regarding, housing, medical 
care, education and so on.  The English therefor, are too some extent justifyed 
in expressing their concerns with this diminished lack of local provision, but 
in doing so makes them look heartless and uncaring, as many of these refugees 
are coming from the middle east.  A problem I may add of our Governments own 
making.


This represents very poor forward planning from our polititions, who will enter 
into conflict and not give a thought to the future commitments or 
responsibilities of their actions


On the opposing side  however, my First Minister, Miss Nicola Sturgen, is 
welcoming all new comers to Scotland as do I as we need professional young 
staff to run this country, after we are gone, so all are welcome.
Very best wishes.
Andy.



- Original Message -
From: "Vaughn Brown" <jazzdress...@gmail.com>
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well Andy,

This conversation has been fascinating to me from a historical pointof view -- 
and it sounds like the Scottish are not pleased with Britain politically 
speaking. Who cares about the golf course? That trip of his made me upset. But 
American ignorance aside, educate us on how Scottish is impacted. It seems to 
me that Scotland is still part of Europe but that Britain has left the union. I 
understand the world financial influence. When I think of the UK, or Great 
Britain, I think of England, Wales, and Scotland. With Scotland's not wanting 
to divorce from the EU, what does this mean? And what about Wales?
It sounds like England was the one to dodge out.
Thank you for the education and clarification.

Vaughn

On 6/24/16, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Hi all.
>
>
>
> I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other 
> lists , concerned with the blind community , which include all of my 
> friends in Britain America, Canada and Australia.
>
> Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to 
> leave Europe!
>
>
>
> In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to 
> remain with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep 
> things as they are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so 
> pleas, to my American friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, 
> the result was a vicctory for my little country..
>
>
>
> However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems 
> that almost every one else voted to leave.
>
>
>
> I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally 
> proud Euro pean.
>
>
>
> Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  
> to be European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my 
> English naibours and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..
>
>
>
> To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my 
> back on Britta

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

So I finally found your flaw.  I knew you were to perfect.:)  A progressive, so 
I definitely an 180 degrees opposed to you and I think if you want to be real 
about it your (not you personally) but the progressive movement and what I 
think your beliefs are would be what caused this situation.  That regulation 
you speak of is absolutely excessive.  This is what progressives do they don’t 
build anything or contribute they control and break down and regulate out of 
existence.  Do you really need someone unelected to tell you that a fruit is 
not a banana if it’s curve does not match the specified degrees?  Your EU has 
this rule.  Progressives want to tell me what I can drink, what type of 
television I can have, what color car?  Progressives in California tried to ban 
Black car paint because it theoretically absorbed more heat and required more 
airconditioning thus more fossil fuel to cool.  Regardless of the fact you 
might have tint installed which greatly reduces the need for AC.  Nut jobs in 
Berkeley California and Philledelphia PA dictate from on high what kind of 
fluid you can drink.
Progressives do not believe in freedom or self rule.  Progressive 
systems always decentralize the regulation from the governing process so that 
you’re dictated to on high by agencies and alliances that you did not elect.  
We’re rejecting this now strongly in our country.  With in the last week our 
courts smacked Obama in the face for his heavy handed executive actions on 
immigration and your people rebuked him and the rest of the establishment on 
the world stage. 
Progressives need to realize that you can’t force your will on everyone 
else.  It only alienates people from your cause.  Nobody wants to have 
regulation from afar shoved down their throat like a Sasha Grey porno flick!

And regardless of your political beliefs, you’re still the man.:)


On 6/24/16, 4:02 PM, "Sabahattin Gucukoglu"  wrote:

Andy,

Well, on behalf of all of the progressives in the UK who chose to stay in 
unity, I say, good for you!

It looks like the SNP will declare another referendum.  You should be on board 
when that happens to decide whether you want to be in union with the 
Westminster establishment and the isolationist majority of this dank little 
island, or not.  I for one will be happy for you if you decide you want out.  
You can leave us, and stay in the EU.  Ms Sturgeon will sit at table with Sadiq 
Khan (London mayor) in order to negotiate Britain’s position with the EU; 
London (which is where I am) was also hit very hard by a majority Remain vote.

What saddens me most are some of the reasons people have given for leaving.  
Many of the working poor wanted to leave not because they have any great beef 
with the institutions of Europe, but because they want to undercut the rich who 
benefit from free movement of EU citizens.  Of all the things you need to 
justify tearing up the foundations of this country, this one has to be among 
the most bitter and desperate imaginable, because the people who will be hit 
the hardest are—you guessed it—the working poor.  Immigration will simply be 
from other non-EU countries, and the labour rights drawn up by the EU to 
protect these poor little Englanders won’t be there to protect them any more.

I am hoping for a miracle just now.

Ahem.  Right, I’ll try and stay quiet on this issue now. Although I’m sure you 
understand if I find it very hard. :)

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The archives for this list can be searched at:

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

To E.T. first, you don’t look at the markets with that narrow of a lens.

There’s a good expression that I like to quote in these conditions.

“When there’s blood in the streets it’s time to buy real estate”

I’m personally loving this even though I’m losing money in the short term I 
have cash which is increasing in value which I’ll use to buy these depressed 
securities.  I suggest everyone else do the same.  When it’s really bad in the 
market it’s time to buy.  I know that feels wrong and counter intuitive but 
there’s no place for emotion in money.  You can’t act emotionally you have to 
try as hard as hell to stay rational and that can be hard when you see the 
numbers ticking down.  But they will tick back up and stronger, it always does 
given enough time. 

I’ll also remind E.T. and others frightened of the market that it was worse in 
February of this year.  We had liquidity issues as well as all sorts of 
international issues including Chinese revaluation and the swings were more 
profound.  We also stayed above key support levels today including the 200 day 
moving average.
As for the crash in the pound, that means one thing to me, might be 
time to buy a Flat in London.  The UK housing market was completely out of 
whack, bubble like and some deflation would be good to reduce the pressure.  
Put more of that real estate with in the reach of the middle class instead of 
the Russian billionaires and over sexed and over paid US movie stars.

Another thing, nothing really changes for a long time.  It’s not like they left 
the EU today.  There’s that whole matter of article 50 and then years of wrap 
up and renegotiation.  Anyone who thinks the EU will be excessively punitive is 
drinking to much of the government koolade.  Germany is not going to stop 
selling Britain Minni Coopers and BMWs and the UK is not going to stop selling 
Germany the high end components they use in the Minni and BMWs not to mention 
the vacuums.:)  In other words trade will persist.  Europe needs the UK more 
than the UK needs Europe economically speaking.

As for the impact on the US, long term the action in the UK will have less than 
25 or 50 basis points impact on our GDP, so really next to nothing.  

And BTW, you folks in Wales built the engine in my car and you did a damn good 
job.:)  I will continue to be a customer along with all the other Americans.  
You put an engine in one of our ford trucks every 17 seconds on average.  That 
will not change.

As Simon said, be calm it will work out for the best.


Simon Says relax.:)

On 6/24/16, 5:17 PM, "Simon Fogarty" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com on behalf 
of si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:

You might want to check that out again,

 A number of stock markets have taken a dive, but I personally believe that 
will be the better or the world economy.

 There are a number of countries within the EU that are really struggling, be 
that due to their incompetence or the EU's I can't really say myself but I 
think this has been coming for some time and lets face it, it's not just 
effecting the UK and the EU, this will impact on the globle scale doe totrade 
and currancys 
The Pound yesterday was worth something around the $1.50 against the NZ dollar, 
it hasn't been that good for a bloody long time,

 Lets just see where it goes and with any luck it will make things stronger for 
the UK overall, oh and carefull selecting a new PM between now and October.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 2:08 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Normally I would say its way off topic but this is something that can have 
a huge impact on us all. It was predicted the stock markets would feel pain but 
here in the US there is no sign of that.

Come November though, that could be a different story. I can wait, though 
just like pulling a tooth, lets get it over with and move on.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 6:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> We could learn something from your secular example!
>
>
>
>
>
> I would also like to thank the Moderators for allowing this thread 
> which is terribly off topic to continue.  We probably should wrap it 
> up but I do thank Mark and Kara for allowing it go this far.  I think 
> it was important and I also think it was important to say that a lot 
> of us here didn’t agree with the meddling in your affairs either.
>
>
>
> Thank you Moderators and thanks everyone for the spirited discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
> <a...@anarchie.org.uk>
> *Reply-To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> *Date: *Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:41 AM
&

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

A little poliannish but ok I see where  you’re coming from.

As for the US not covering properly I would totally disagree.  I’ll give you a 
few options so there’s not just one political bent represented.

Stewart Varney had excellent coverage on The Fox News Network as well as Fox 
business.  Really expressed the shock of the decision well and as a Britt who 
recently obtained US citizenship he had an interesting viewpoint on the subject.
CNBC, the NBC owned finance network had excellent coverage especially 
as it  related to the global financial markets.  There were both stay and leave 
sides represented and the coverage was very interesting.  Was amazing to see 
the prognosticators and trading professionals try to justify their value after 
getting the mood of the nation so wrong.
Local and national news by the networks was pitiful or out right 
ignored.  Since the official government position was stay you will not get 
unbiased reporting from the major networks who are in the bag for the 
government.
Bloomberg even though I think Michael Bloomberg is a complete ass had 
good covrage and continues to.  Again it’s market oriented but the political 
side is covered very well.
CNN was unwatchable mainly because they were so far behind the 8ball.
BBC was good getting the news uncut as it were but remember that’s the 
Government mouth piece.
Sky News coverage was also very very good.  I personally liked watching 
them pounding on Borris Johnson’s door trying to rouse him out of bed.:)


That’s a few I was watching, was also looking at some twitter feeds.  I try to 
mix it up since everyone has an agenda you have to try to sort through it all.

You might try some of these sources if you’re interested in the topic.  
Possibly others would have suggestions so again I don’t steer you towards one 
political view or another, that’s the decision you need to make for your self.


On 6/24/16, 4:43 PM, "Vaughn Brown" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com on behalf 
of jazzdress...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Andy,

Thank you for explaining all of this. I did not realize the "refugee
crisis" played such a big role in the choices made. I sincerely
appreciate the explaination and will follow the proceedings more
carefully. The news reporters in the U.S did not explain the entire
matter well enough -- most likely because they, themselves, do not
understand how the UK's politics works or the huge impact. All the
reporters seem to be obsess about is the global market. Not once did I
hear the refugee matter being discussed in detail.

I'm glad Scotland has open borders. And yes, I agree that nations
should act together to help other nations prevent wars and refugee
fleeings.

Kindly,
Vaughn

On 6/24/16, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> hi Vaughn.
>
> It really sounds crazy, but last nights vote has taken all of the UK's four
>
> nations, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, out of Europe without
> Scotland having it's say.
>
> Hardly anyone in the UK  would have put money on Brittan leaving the
> European Community last night, so to be honest, we did not see it coming,,
> until we woke this morning.
>
> To be fair on England, they have had more than their shair of refugees and
> this is causing terrible problems in a local sense, regarding, housing,
> medical care, education and so on.  The English therefor, are too some
> extent justifyed in expressing their concerns with this diminished lack of
> local provision, but in doing so makes them look heartless and uncaring, as
>
> many of these refugees are coming from the middle east.  A problem I may add
>
> of our Governments own making.
>
>
> This represents very poor forward planning from our polititions, who will
> enter into conflict and not give a thought to the future commitments or
> responsibilities of their actions
>
>
> On the opposing side  however, my First Minister, Miss Nicola Sturgen, is
> welcoming all new comers to Scotland as do I as we need professional young
> staff to run this country, after we are gone, so all are welcome.
> Very best wishes.
> Andy.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: "Vaughn Brown" <jazzdress...@gmail.com>
> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 8:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
> Andy,
>
> This conversation has been fascinating to me from a historical pointof
> view -- and it sounds like the Scottish are not pleased with
> Britain politically speaking. Who cares about the golf course? That
> trip of his made me upset. But American ignorance aside, educate us on
> how Scottish is impacted. It seems to me that Scotland is still part
> of Europe but that Britain has left the union. I understand the world
> 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

 future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind
> community and I’m proud of that also.
>
>
>
> So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of
> turmoile.
>
>
>
> We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's
> a promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special
> relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be
> tossed aside by the likes of Trump!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Very best wishes as always.
>
>
>
> Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.
>
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Kawal Gucukoglu
>   To: Macvisionaries
>   Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM
>   Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>
>
>   So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?
>
>
>
>   Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland
> so where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?
>
>
>   I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks
> to our livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was
> worth people losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and
> upset because of some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I
> said and on TV at the moment there are those who are still arguing as to
> what happens next and the rest of the EU saying that there will be
> consequences.  How can the world heal, come together and be more tolerant?
> Then Mr Trump changing his tune to fit the circumstances.  American are also
> in some difficulty as the Democrats had a sitting in congress to get gun
> laws but the republicans say no so there is no unity in the world and at
> present I am worried about how things will pan out for the world.  Sorry
> this is pessimistic but I live for the long term and not the short.  I am a
> deep person and take seriously the world’s problems to heart.
>
>
>   Kawal.
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2016, at 13:05, CHUCK REICHEL
> <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Scott,
> Sorry to hear about your loss. :(
> As for England I also will raise a frosty mug of Sam adams and celebrate
> and wait till "november" here in the USA for the same!
> GOD Bless America!
> Home of Apple! :)
> Talk soon
> Chuck
>
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:58 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>
>
>   Well I’ve been riveted watching this all day, I’m going on 24 hours
> here, it’s also a welcome distraction to some really really bad stuff
> happening on my family level right now so forgive me if I use your country’s
> politics as a distraction.:)  My grandmother oddly enough who is the
> connection to Britain for me passed after 96 years on this rock and it’s all
> closing in on me now that I am only one of 3 left in our family and the
> other 2 are on the shorter end of their lives than longer so I’m feeling a
> bit freaked out and my numbers are dwindling down to 0 so if I get in the
> weeds you get it.
>   To give you an idea why I feel such a connection with your country my
> family on my mother’s side came to this country fairly recently.  My grand
> mother and grand father came over to this country on boats I believe before
> world war 2 and settled on the east coast as well as Detroit.  My great
> Grand father, mother’s grand father actually worked on your crown jewels.  I
> have jewelers drawings hand made by him used to create some of the items in
> your tower of London today.  I’ve frequently thought about giving them to
> one of your museums if you’d have them but I have no idea their value or if
> they represent any thing special to the British people or even what or who
> should have them.  It’s this man’s daughter, my grand mother who passed this
> morning.  She taught me so much about your part of the world from your money
> to telling me stories about my cousins who I don’t know but sell fruit in
> fruit stands somewhere in London or another husband and wife relation of
> ours who I met once years ago and don’t know exactly how they fit but they
> own a sweater company in Scotland.  I remember these people coming to visit
> us and my Grand Father who is from Whales loved taking them to sites around
> the north east US where we americans beat back the British during the
> Revolution.:)  He loved giving the English side of our family a real ribbing
> about the revolution when they would come to visit. In the same breath
> though, my grandfather served during World War II and I know always talked
> about the Brits he served proudly with.
>   I say all this because I’m not the only one.  So many of us hav

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Andy]

Hi again Simon.

My nephew, Ewan qualified as a Constructural Engineer, some two  years before 
the Christ-Church disaster and told me he was thinking of going to Sidney 
Austraillia to work.

I advised him as strongly as I could to consider Christ-Church as a volunteer, 
just after the disaster, adding that this would set him up to no end, if later 
he required Citizenship.

Very surprisingly, he told me that he was going to Sidney because this was 
where the money was.

Despite my attempts to convey to him the value of Brownie Points, especially 
during a natural disaster episode, he stuck to his guns and is now working 
happily in Sydney.

Now, if that was me, I'd have offered my assistance to the authorities at the 
time and you know what, I'd be well tucked in by now.  Foolish him eh?

Andy.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Simon Fogarty 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 12:46 PM
  Subject: RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well


  Hi Andy, glad you could take the joke,

   

  Yeah Christchurch isn’t much to look at these days and yeah it like Dunedin 
is approx. 2500 Km away from the prison islands east coast  Sydney / Melbourne.

  Brisbain is a bit further cause it is up hill.

  Dunedin is approx. 400 Km south of Christchurch,  

  And currently full of foreigners either welsh or outside of Dunedin, we’ve  
got the wales rugby team and all blacks playing tonight here in town,

   

  As for austrailia 

   It’s a prison island sitting in the sun baking away.

  Can’t say lot more as it’s not worth talking about really.

   

  From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
  Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 8:33 PM
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

   

  Hoy partner.

   

  I was just the other day talking with a friend from the South Island of New 
Zeland.  Of course we think of you but I'm as guilty as my european friends to 
attach you to Austrailia, despite knowing that Christchurch is hundreds of 
miles away.

   

  Many people think I'm English but I'm not.  I just live close by.

   

  And I never had a kilt in my life.  Too cold here around the trosucks! 

   

  Andy.

   

   

- Original Message - 

From: Simon Fogarty 

To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 10:26 PM

Subject: RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.

What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that, 

 

Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.

 

Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

Hi all.

 

I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other 
lists , concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in 
Britain America, Canada and Australia.

Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
Europe!

 

In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as they 
are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my American 
friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a vicctory for my 
little country..

 

However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that 
almost every one else voted to leave.

  

I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud 
Euro pean.

 

Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..  

 

To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back 
on Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it and 
have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to work 
voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out to help 
us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to welcome all 
workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scottish Experience a 
reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for 
them.

 

Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight 
that the UK has voted to leave the EU.

 

He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with 
the result of last nights vote.

 

Does he have no P. A. staff:

 

Surely, before

RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Andy, glad you could take the joke,

Yeah Christchurch isn’t much to look at these days and yeah it like Dunedin is 
approx. 2500 Km away from the prison islands east coast  Sydney / Melbourne.
Brisbain is a bit further cause it is up hill.
Dunedin is approx. 400 Km south of Christchurch,
And currently full of foreigners either welsh or outside of Dunedin, we’ve  got 
the wales rugby team and all blacks playing tonight here in town,

As for austrailia
 It’s a prison island sitting in the sun baking away.
Can’t say lot more as it’s not worth talking about really.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 8:33 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hoy partner.

I was just the other day talking with a friend from the South Island of New 
Zeland.  Of course we think of you but I'm as guilty as my european friends to 
attach you to Austrailia, despite knowing that Christchurch is hundreds of 
miles away.

Many people think I'm English but I'm not.  I just live close by.

And I never had a kilt in my life.  Too cold here around the trosucks!

Andy.


- Original Message -
From: Simon Fogarty<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 10:26 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.
What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,

Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.

Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hi all.

I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists , 
concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in Britain 
America, Canada and Australia.
Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
Europe!

In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as they 
are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my American 
friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a vicctory for my 
little country..

However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that almost 
every one else voted to leave.

I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud Euro 
pean.

Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..

To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back on 
Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it and 
have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to work 
voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out to help 
us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to welcome all 
workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scottish Experience a 
reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for 
them.

Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that 
the UK has voted to leave the EU.

He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with the 
result of last nights vote.

Does he have no P. A. staff:

Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the 
beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.

But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning her 
back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most powerful 
man in the world.

As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends, I’m 
very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that there 
is nothing wrong with that!
No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind 
community and I’m proud of that also.

So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of turmoile.

We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's a 
promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special 
relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be 
tossed aside by the likes of Trump!



Very best wishes as always.

Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.
- Original Message -
From: Kawal Gucukoglu<mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
To: Macvisionaries<m

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Andy]

Hoy partner.

I was just the other day talking with a friend from the South Island of New 
Zeland.  Of course we think of you but I'm as guilty as my european friends to 
attach you to Austrailia, despite knowing that Christchurch is hundreds of 
miles away.

Many people think I'm English but I'm not.  I just live close by.

And I never had a kilt in my life.  Too cold here around the trosucks! 

Andy.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Simon Fogarty 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 10:26 PM
  Subject: RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well


  Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.

  What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that, 

   

  Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.

   

  Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!

   

  From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
  Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

   

  Hi all.

   

  I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists 
, concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in 
Britain America, Canada and Australia.

  Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
Europe!

   

  In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as they 
are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my American 
friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a vicctory for my 
little country..

   

  However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that 
almost every one else voted to leave.



  I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud 
Euro pean.

   

  Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..  

   

  To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back 
on Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it and 
have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to work 
voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out to help 
us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to welcome all 
workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scottish Experience a 
reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for 
them.

   

  Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that 
the UK has voted to leave the EU.

   

  He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with 
the result of last nights vote.

   

  Does he have no P. A. staff:

   

  Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the 
beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.

   

  But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning her 
back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most powerful 
man in the world.

   

  As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends, 
I’m very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that 
there is nothing wrong with that!

  No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind 
community and I’m proud of that also.

   

  So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of 
turmoile.

   

  We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's a 
promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special 
relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be 
tossed aside by the likes of Trump!

   

   

   

  Very best wishes as always.

   

  Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.

- Original Message - 

From: Kawal Gucukoglu 

To: Macvisionaries 

Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM

    Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?   

 

Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales? 

 

I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks to 
our livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was worth 
people losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and upset because 
of some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I said and on TV at 
the moment there are those who are still arguing as to what happens next and 
the rest of the EU saying that there will be consequences

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Andy]

This is absolute rubbish!

Scotland has a population of 5 mil and England has a population of 60 mil.  
Just how much influence do you credit us for.

As far as turn out, 62% of Scots able to vote supported our Governments wish to 
remain within Europe.  62% is quite a good result and to finish, I don't tell 
lies so your opening line was offensive to me.

Andy and as far as I'm concerned this subject is dead
  - Original Message - 
  From: Scott Granados 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:24 AM
  Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well


  Andy, your not telling the truth though.

   

  While you’re absolutely correct, Scotland most definitely voted to stay, your 
turn out was pitiful in comparison to the other regions.  You alone could have 
changed the course of the election if your people didn’t stay home.  The 
percentages were something like 62% in favor in Scotland of remain but in terms 
of raw numbers only a smaller segment of your population turned out.  If there 
was a larger turn out, even in the similar ratios you might have narrowed 
things even further or even reversed the decision.  Keep in mind I’ll be the 
first to tell you I’m getting my news through the American propaganda machine 
and while I get some direct from the continent it’s mostly US media that I’ve 
followed.  I have read interesting things about the distribution of stay verses 
leave votes.

  The other thing that I think is important to say though is if you and your 
countrymen feel that strongly then you to should leave and rule your country as 
you wish.  I no more support London forcing their views on you if you don’t 
want them then Brussels forcing their views and being a proxy for Germany to 
subvert the electorate in your united kingdom as well.  As a member of the 
former colonies who broke awayJ I could never take another position and be 
honest.  We did it so I wouldn’t tell you or anyone else to stay against your 
will.  If you can convince the majority to join you then what’s fair is fair.  
Same with Ireland.  I personally think you’re better off together but then it 
doesn’t matter a hill of beans what I think because I have no skin in the game.


   

   

   

  From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Andy 
<meikle.ai...@btinternet.com>
  Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
  Date: Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:36 PM
  To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
  Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

   


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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Andy, your not telling the truth though.

 

While you’re absolutely correct, Scotland most definitely voted to stay, your 
turn out was pitiful in comparison to the other regions.  You alone could have 
changed the course of the election if your people didn’t stay home.  The 
percentages were something like 62% in favor in Scotland of remain but in terms 
of raw numbers only a smaller segment of your population turned out.  If there 
was a larger turn out, even in the similar ratios you might have narrowed 
things even further or even reversed the decision.  Keep in mind I’ll be the 
first to tell you I’m getting my news through the American propaganda machine 
and while I get some direct from the continent it’s mostly US media that I’ve 
followed.  I have read interesting things about the distribution of stay verses 
leave votes.

The other thing that I think is important to say though is if you and your 
countrymen feel that strongly then you to should leave and rule your country as 
you wish.  I no more support London forcing their views on you if you don’t 
want them then Brussels forcing their views and being a proxy for Germany to 
subvert the electorate in your united kingdom as well.  As a member of the 
former colonies who broke awayJ I could never take another position and be 
honest.  We did it so I wouldn’t tell you or anyone else to stay against your 
will.  If you can convince the majority to join you then what’s fair is fair.  
Same with Ireland.  I personally think you’re better off together but then it 
doesn’t matter a hill of beans what I think because I have no skin in the game.

 

 

 

 

From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Andy 
<meikle.ai...@btinternet.com>
Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:36 PM
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

That’s interesting.  We here in America are more in support of leaving than 
remaining.  I think it’s our rebellious history and our natural distrust of 
government at work.  I personally am pulling for leaving because I think your 
great country stands apart from many of your European counterparts.  You have a 
free market, you’re leaner on regulations, very strong economy, well regulated 
and managed currency and just all in all lots to be proud British citizens 
over.  The idea of someone ordering around your markets with out being elected 
makes my skin crawl as a free market man.

 

And you make amazing vacuums.:)

 

 

From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kawal Gucukoglu 
<kgli...@icloud.com>
Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 12:22 PM
To: Macvisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

I really don’t blame you Anne and I hope the remain win to put those who lied 
in this campaign in their places as they deserve to lose.

On 23 Jun 2016, at 17:12, Anne Robertson <a...@anarchie.org.uk> wrote:

 

I’m desperately hoping for the Remain vote to win. I no longer have a vote in 
Britain as I’ve lived in France for 33 years, but if the Leave side wins, I’ll 
be applying for French citizenship.

 

The MP who was murdered was from my home area and had been headgirl at the 
grammar school I attended after opting out of the special education system. She 
was much younger than me, so I never knew her, but I felt a certain connection 
to her and was horrified by what happened.

 

Cheers,

 

Anne

 

 

 

On 23 Jun 2016, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote:

 

Hi Scott and whoever is interested.

 

I cast my vote earlier today.  using a tactile Braille template.  I am now just 
anxious about the outcome.  There is enough violence and discord in the world 
and whatever the result if it’s for in my opinion to stay in, then I hope it 
brings the country together as I believe the death of a Member of Parliament 
which happened last week on the Streets of Britain was politically motivated as 
this person said when he appeared in Court to give his name, and I quote: 
‘death to traitors freedom to Britain’.  That was disgusting and I don’t want 
to live in a world where people can not say how they feel and then for a bullet 
or knife to come their way.  The campaign here has been divisive and disgusting 
and poisoners and many people will vote No just to try and get rid of the 
Government of the day.

 

If there is a No vote, then the country will be messed up.  I just hope people 
will vote for the right reasons.

 

Sorry to write this but I am a person of strong views and I would have not 
written if I did not see this post from Scott which encouraged me to write.

 

Please delete if no one is interested, but do not flame me as I know how nasty 
some people can be on this list if the mood takes them.

 

Thanks.

 

Kawal.

On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:45, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net> wrote:

 

Totally off topic so if you’re not interested stop here and delete.

 

I just wanted to wish our British friends well in their big decision today.  A 
lot of really unfortunate things have been said by our president and other 
leaders in the US and as a citizen I think they should have just left well 
enough alone and not meddle in the affairs of your country.  A lot has been 
said about Britain moving to the back of the line and other such hysterics and 
I just want you to know that it’s BS and don’t be pressured by the suits in 
this country who don’t have the support of the people anyway.  Even though our 
two countries had a rocky start and there was that little matter of a tea party 
and some revolutionary acts here and their.:) it’s totally clear to me and 
everyone here that we have been, we presently are and hopefully always will be 
the closest of friends now.  I’m personally able to claim more than half of my 
ancestry as British and other than my own country I hold yours in highest 
regard.  Do what’s in your heart to do, don’t let the bullies in Washington 
here or number ten Downing or Brussels make the decision for you. Know that on 
the ground, if you decide to leave, 8 out of 10 Americans support you whole 
heartedly and if you decide to stay then we back you there as well.  It makes 
no difference to me or anyone who really counts (the man or woman on the 
street) what you do, we support you, we love you and we know you’ll do what’s 
right for Britain.  We’ll still come and spend our money in your country, buy 
your great products and enjoy your fantastic culture and people no matter what 
you do so don’t let anyone scare you in to making a decision based on rhetoric. 
 Just don’t screw up my ability to buy your fantastic single malts.:)  (I’m 
kidding, do what you need to do or don’t depending on what you and you al

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Kawal, you are letting the propaganda get to you.

 

We in the US have a much more optimistic view of what will happen to you.  Our 
financial channels have been wall to wall covering your exit.  The doom and 
gloom being stated by the elitists before is being replaced with things like 
great buying opportunities and way to push back regulation.  All the folks who 
try to keep us down have egg on their face this morning and it’s fun to watch.

 

Our democrats are nuts, they want to disarm us and make us helpless.  This is 
combined with an equal and opposite attack by the right on our rights to do 
process.  The establishment does not have our interests at heart no matter the 
side of the isle.  The  right and left in my country compliment in such a way 
that only we the citizens get screwed because our rights are under attack from 
all angles.  One side sticks up for the rights they support but equally try to 
disrupt the ones they do not.  Nobody supports our bill of rights equally the 
way they should any more in power.

    Trump is just a symbol for our frustration.  We want someone 
who can’t be bought off and trump can’t he’s already got the money.:)  Hillary 
is beholdent to everyone who paid her and her husbands foundation.  She shows 
more loyalty to the Saudi royal family than she does her own constituents.  I 
am no trump fan and equally I am no Hillary fan.  I am one who wishes we had 
more parties that had real power instead of just on paper.  Personally, I’d 
love to see Gary Johnson (former Governor of New Mexico and a Libertarian) win 
the office but I’m realistic to know that to many in my country are afraid of 
real freedom and it will never happen.

 

Do not put any weight on the manufactured gun issue.  That’s a total media 
fabrication designed to attack our second amendment.  Half the mass shootings 
you hear about are staged or influenced by nefarious elements with in our 
country that wish to see the population disarmed.  We have strong rights to 
self defense and guns but all weapons really in this country as a direct result 
of our split from Britain and the revolution of 1776.  There are forces working 
to undermine everything that our forefathers saught to create.

 

Just like they are doing the same or rather they tried to do the same to you.  
In America the majority feel you showed real backbone.

 

Come on Texas Exit!

 

 

would that be a Texit? 

 

From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kawal Gucukoglu 
<kgli...@icloud.com>
Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:04 AM
To: Macvisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?  

 

Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?

 

I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks to our 
livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was worth people 
losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and upset because of 
some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I said and on TV at the 
moment there are those who are still arguing as to what happens next and the 
rest of the EU saying that there will be consequences.  How can the world heal, 
come together and be more tolerant?  Then Mr Trump changing his tune to fit the 
circumstances.  American are also in some difficulty as the Democrats had a 
sitting in congress to get gun laws but the republicans say no so there is no 
unity in the world and at present I am worried about how things will pan out 
for the world.  Sorry this is pessimistic but I live for the long term and not 
the short.  I am a deep person and take seriously the world’s problems to heart.

 

Kawal.

 

On 24 Jun 2016, at 13:05, CHUCK REICHEL <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Hi Scott,
Sorry to hear about your loss. :(
As for England I also will raise a frosty mug of Sam adams and celebrate and 
wait till "november" here in the USA for the same!
GOD Bless America!
Home of Apple! :)
Talk soon
Chuck

On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:58 PM, Scott Granados wrote:



Well I’ve been riveted watching this all day, I’m going on 24 hours here, it’s 
also a welcome distraction to some really really bad stuff happening on my 
family level right now so forgive me if I use your country’s politics as a 
distraction.:)  My grandmother oddly enough who is the connection to Britain 
for me passed after 96 years on this rock and it’s all closing in on me now 
that I am only one of 3 left in our family and the other 2 are on the shorter 
end of their lives than longer so I’m feeling a bit freaked out and my numbers 
are dwindling down to 0 so if I get in the weeds you get it.
    To give you an idea why I feel such a conne

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Actually, someone on another list made an excellent point to bring this back 
somewhat more on topic.

 

Look at what the EU was doing to Apple and Google.  Look at the goofie 
regulations that were being forced on companies and people external to the 
region.  Google was under attack in the EU.  Britain can be a place of free 
markets and less regulation where the googles and apples can flourish.  That’s 
good for us all.  The EU may have threatened innovation by some of our favorite 
companies.:)

 

I think the mods have already demonstrated a lot of tolerance here on this 
topic, as soon as they want it to stop I for one will be ok, they showed some 
good flexability here in my opinion.

 

 

From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kawal Gucukoglu 
<kgli...@icloud.com>
Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:49 AM
To: Macvisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

I just hope that the moderators of this list will let this topic be an 
exception for once as in a way people travel the world especially to 
exhibitions of access technology and for once we have had a discussion of how 
the world is.  If the moderators feel that we have done something wrong in 
discussing this matter then the spirit of this list will be diminished.  This 
was a historical decision so if the moderators wish to comment then they can do 
so and if they wish to take our rights away by putting those of us on 
notification that our membership is to be taken away then this list will be 
poorer.

 

The moderators can get in touch with me privately if they wish to do this so as 
not to have this discussion on this list as I know people won’t like it and 
they will complain.

 

Those of you who do not like what is said, then by all means press the delete 
key and move on.

 

Kawal. 

On 24 Jun 2016, at 14:35, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net> wrote:

 

We could learn something from your secular example!

 

 

I would also like to thank the Moderators for allowing this thread which is 
terribly off topic to continue.  We probably should wrap it up but I do thank 
Mark and Kara for allowing it go this far.  I think it was important and I also 
think it was important to say that a lot of us here didn’t agree with the 
meddling in your affairs either.

 

Thank you Moderators and thanks everyone for the spirited discussion.

 

 

From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
<a...@anarchie.org.uk>
Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:41 AM
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

Hello Sabahattin,

 

On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:55, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:

 

Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of need for a 
kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so efficient and socially 
competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my taste.  My own experience with 
the NHS (but not for a transplant) has been truly wonderful, so your story 
makes me sad.  Now we’re out, presumably we won’t see any more of that 
wonderful efficiency from across the channel.

I was actually refused dialysis even though I was suffering horribly with so 
much fluid retention that moisture was seeping through my skin. A very 
compassionate doctor eventually got me onto a dialysis machine and saved my 
life.

 

The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like visible 
signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state is officially 
secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims in France which is 
almost a tenth of the population. Of course, France has its share of bigots of 
all kinds, just like everywhere else.

 

Cheers,

 

Anne

 

 

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RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,

I would like to see this thread closed before it turns, well, ugly, so to 
speak.  

Thank you,

Mark

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:42 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

God help the world if he does.

I think I’ll move to mars, surely they have a hotel up there by now.

Wonder if they’ll have wifi though!?


But after some of his recent comments surely someone will  do something first.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 9:34 AM
To: Macvisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Don’t forget, if Donald Trump gets elected, how will the world handle that as 
thus far he has not had a good press!
On 24 Jun 2016, at 22:26, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:

Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.
What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,
 
Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.
 
Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
 
Hi all.
 
I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists , 
concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in Britain 
America, Canada and Australia.
Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
Europe!
 
In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as they 
are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my American 
friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a vicctory for my 
little country..
 
However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that almost 
every one else voted to leave.
  
I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud Euro 
pean.
 
Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..  
 
To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back on 
Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it and 
have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to work 
voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out to help 
us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to welcome all 
workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scottish Experience a 
reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for 
them.
 
Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that 
the UK has voted to leave the EU.
 
He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with the 
result of last nights vote.
 
Does he have no P. A. staff:
 
Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the 
beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.
 
But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning her 
back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most powerful 
man in the world.
 
As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends, I’m 
very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that there 
is nothing wrong with that!
No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind 
community and I’m proud of that also.
 
So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of turmoile.
 
We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's a 
promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special 
relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be 
tossed aside by the likes of Trump!
 
 
 
Very best wishes as always.
 
Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.
- Original Message -
From: Kawal Gucukoglu
To: Macvisionaries
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
 
So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?  
 
Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?
 
I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks to our 
livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was worth people 
losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[E.T.]

   You might want to read all of your emails. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 2:17 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

You might want to check that out again,

 A number of stock markets have taken a dive, but I personally believe that 
will be the better or the world economy.

 There are a number of countries within the EU that are really struggling, be 
that due to their incompetence or the EU's I can't really say myself but I 
think this has been coming for some time and lets face it, it's not just 
effecting the UK and the EU, this will impact on the globle scale doe totrade 
and currancys
The Pound yesterday was worth something around the $1.50 against the NZ dollar, 
it hasn't been that good for a bloody long time,

 Lets just see where it goes and with any luck it will make things stronger for 
the UK overall, oh and carefull selecting a new PM between now and October.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 2:08 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Normally I would say its way off topic but this is something that can have 
a huge impact on us all. It was predicted the stock markets would feel pain but 
here in the US there is no sign of that.

Come November though, that could be a different story. I can wait, though 
just like pulling a tooth, lets get it over with and move on.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 6:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

We could learn something from your secular example!





I would also like to thank the Moderators for allowing this thread
which is terribly off topic to continue.  We probably should wrap it
up but I do thank Mark and Kara for allowing it go this far.  I think
it was important and I also think it was important to say that a lot
of us here didn’t agree with the meddling in your affairs either.



Thank you Moderators and thanks everyone for the spirited discussion.





*From: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson
<a...@anarchie.org.uk>
*Reply-To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Date: *Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:41 AM
*To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Subject: *Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well



Hello Sabahattin,



On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:55, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com
<mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:



Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of
need for a kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so
efficient and socially competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my
taste.  My own experience with the NHS (but not for a transplant)
has been truly wonderful, so your story makes me sad.  Now we’re
out, presumably we won’t see any more of that wonderful efficiency
from across the channel.

I was actually refused dialysis even though I was suffering horribly
with so much fluid retention that moisture was seeping through my skin.
A very compassionate doctor eventually got me onto a dialysis machine
and saved my life.



The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like
visible signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state is
officially secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims in
France which is almost a tenth of the population. Of course, France
has its share of bigots of all kinds, just like everywhere else.



Cheers,



Anne





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the owners or 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[E.T.]

   If DT should have the luck to move into the White House "God Bless 
America" will be changed to oh I cannot say it on a public list.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 2:34 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:

Don’t forget, if Donald Trump gets elected, how will the world handle
that as thus far he has not had a good press!

On 24 Jun 2016, at 22:26, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com
<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.
What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,

Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.

Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!

*From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
 *On
Behalf Of *Andy
*Sent:* Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
*To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Subject:* Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hi all.

I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other
lists , concerned with the blind community , which include all of my
friends in Britain America, Canada and Australia.
Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to
leave Europe!

In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to
remain with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep
things as they are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so
pleas, to my American friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish,
the result was a vicctory for my little country..

However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems
that almost every one else voted to leave.

I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally
proud Euro pean.

Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,
to be European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my
English naibours and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once
more..

To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my
back on Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and
proud of it and have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend
to volunteer to work voluntary with the Scottish National Party and
intend to work flat out to help us make our country remain as a part
of Europe, and continue to welcome all workers and visitors from all
over the world to make the Scottish Experience a reality for them, and
above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for them.

Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his
delight that the UK has voted to leave the EU.

He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated
with the result of last nights vote.

Does he have no P. A. staff:

Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked
the beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.

But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into
turning her back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump
as the most powerful man in the world.

As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian
friends, I’m very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you
will agree, that there is nothing wrong with that!
No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special
blind community and I’m proud of that also.

So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of
turmoile.

We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and
that's a promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our
special relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable
and not to be tossed aside by the likes of Trump!



Very best wishes as always.

Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.

- Original Message -
*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
    *Sent:* Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM
    *Subject:* Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain
next?

Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for
Ireland so where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and
Wales?

I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present
risks to our livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that
this vote was worth people losing their jobs.  I have been feeling
very emotional and upset because of some selfish people in
society.  I voted to remain like I said and on TV at the moment
there are those who are still arguing as to what happens next and
the rest of the EU saying that there will be consequences.  How
can the world heal, come together and be more tolerant?  Then Mr
Trump changing his tune to fit the 

RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Simon Fogarty]

God help the world if he does.

I think I’ll move to mars, surely they have a hotel up there by now.

Wonder if they’ll have wifi though!?


But after some of his recent comments surely someone will  do something first.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 9:34 AM
To: Macvisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Don’t forget, if Donald Trump gets elected, how will the world handle that as 
thus far he has not had a good press!
On 24 Jun 2016, at 22:26, Simon Fogarty 
<si...@blinky-net.com<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.
What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,

Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.

Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!

From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
 On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hi all.

I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists , 
concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in Britain 
America, Canada and Australia.
Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
Europe!

In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as they 
are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my American 
friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a vicctory for my 
little country..

However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that almost 
every one else voted to leave.

I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud Euro 
pean.

Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..

To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back on 
Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it and 
have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to work 
voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out to help 
us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to welcome all 
workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scottish Experience a 
reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for 
them.

Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that 
the UK has voted to leave the EU.

He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with the 
result of last nights vote.

Does he have no P. A. staff:

Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the 
beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.

But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning her 
back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most powerful 
man in the world.

As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends, I’m 
very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that there 
is nothing wrong with that!
No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind 
community and I’m proud of that also.

So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of turmoile.

We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's a 
promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special 
relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be 
tossed aside by the likes of Trump!



Very best wishes as always.

Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.
- Original Message -
From: Kawal Gucukoglu<mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
To: Macvisionaries<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?

Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?

I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks to our 
livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was worth people 
losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and upset because of 
some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I said and on TV at the 
moment there are those who are still arguing as to what happens next and the 
rest of the

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Phil Halton]

Is leadership based in "good press"?


Sent from my IPhone


> On Jun 24, 2016, at 5:34 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Don’t forget, if Donald Trump gets elected, how will the world handle that as 
> thus far he has not had a good press!
>> On 24 Jun 2016, at 22:26, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.
>> What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,
>>  
>> Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.
>>  
>> Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!
>>  
>> From: 
>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Andy
>> Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>>  
>> Hi all.
>>  
>> I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists 
>> , concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in 
>> Britain America, Canada and Australia.
>> Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
>> Europe!
>>  
>> In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
>> with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as 
>> they are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my 
>> American friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a 
>> vicctory for my little country..
>>  
>> However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that 
>> almost every one else voted to leave.
>>   
>> I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud 
>> Euro pean.
>>  
>> Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
>> European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English 
>> naibours and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..  
>>  
>> To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back 
>> on Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it 
>> and have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to 
>> work voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out 
>> to help us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to 
>> welcome all workers and visitors from all over the world to make the 
>> Scottish Experience a reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and 
>> valuable experience for them.
>>  
>> Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that 
>> the UK has voted to leave the EU.
>>  
>> He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with 
>> the result of last nights vote.
>>  
>> Does he have no P. A. staff:
>>  
>> Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the 
>> beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.
>>  
>> But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning 
>> her back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most 
>> powerful man in the world.
>>  
>> As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends, 
>> I’m very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that 
>> there is nothing wrong with that!
>> No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind 
>> community and I’m proud of that also.
>>  
>> So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of 
>> turmoile.
>>  
>> We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's 
>> a promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special 
>> relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be 
>> tossed aside by the likes of Trump!
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Very best wishes as always.
>>  
>> Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Kawal Gucukoglu
>> To: Macvisionaries
>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>>  
>> So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?  
>>  
>> Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
>> where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?
>>  
>> I just hope inflation and interest rates wil

RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Andy,

 Ireleand are still in the EU, northern Ireland were the effected forth state 
of the UK,

 But I heard something lastnight about and excuse the spelling, shin fain being 
a bit concerned about how this may effect the current peace between those in  
northern Ireland.

We've just gotta hope that unrest doesn't start up again.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 8:22 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

hi Vaughn.

It really sounds crazy, but last nights vote has taken all of the UK's four 
nations, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, out of Europe without Scotland 
having it's say.

Hardly anyone in the UK  would have put money on Brittan leaving the European 
Community last night, so to be honest, we did not see it coming,, until we woke 
this morning.

To be fair on England, they have had more than their shair of refugees and this 
is causing terrible problems in a local sense, regarding, housing, medical 
care, education and so on.  The English therefor, are too some extent justifyed 
in expressing their concerns with this diminished lack of local provision, but 
in doing so makes them look heartless and uncaring, as many of these refugees 
are coming from the middle east.  A problem I may add of our Governments own 
making.


This represents very poor forward planning from our polititions, who will enter 
into conflict and not give a thought to the future commitments or 
responsibilities of their actions


On the opposing side  however, my First Minister, Miss Nicola Sturgen, is 
welcoming all new comers to Scotland as do I as we need professional young 
staff to run this country, after we are gone, so all are welcome.
Very best wishes.
Andy.



- Original Message -
From: "Vaughn Brown" <jazzdress...@gmail.com>
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well Andy,

This conversation has been fascinating to me from a historical pointof view -- 
and it sounds like the Scottish are not pleased with Britain politically 
speaking. Who cares about the golf course? That trip of his made me upset. But 
American ignorance aside, educate us on how Scottish is impacted. It seems to 
me that Scotland is still part of Europe but that Britain has left the union. I 
understand the world financial influence. When I think of the UK, or Great 
Britain, I think of England, Wales, and Scotland. With Scotland's not wanting 
to divorce from the EU, what does this mean? And what about Wales?
It sounds like England was the one to dodge out.
Thank you for the education and clarification.

Vaughn

On 6/24/16, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Hi all.
>
>
>
> I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other 
> lists , concerned with the blind community , which include all of my 
> friends in Britain America, Canada and Australia.
>
> Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to 
> leave Europe!
>
>
>
> In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to 
> remain with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep 
> things as they are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so 
> pleas, to my American friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, 
> the result was a vicctory for my little country..
>
>
>
> However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems 
> that almost every one else voted to leave.
>
>
>
> I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally 
> proud Euro pean.
>
>
>
> Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  
> to be European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my 
> English naibours and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..
>
>
>
> To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my 
> back on Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and 
> proud of it and have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend 
> to volunteer to work voluntary with the Scottish National Party and 
> intend to work flat out to help us make our country remain as a part 
> of Europe, and continue to welcome all workers and visitors from all 
> over the world to make the Scottish Experience a reality for them, and 
> above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for them.
>
>
>
> Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his 
> delight that the UK has voted to leave the EU.
>
>
>
> He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with
> the result of last nights vote.
>
>
>
> Does

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Don’t forget, if Donald Trump gets elected, how will the world handle that as 
thus far he has not had a good press!
> On 24 Jun 2016, at 22:26, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.
> What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,
>  
> Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.
>  
> Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Andy
> Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>  
> Hi all.
>  
> I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists 
> , concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in 
> Britain America, Canada and Australia.
> Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
> Europe!
>  
> In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
> with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as 
> they are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my 
> American friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a 
> vicctory for my little country..
>  
> However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that 
> almost every one else voted to leave.
>   
> I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud 
> Euro pean.
>  
> Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
> European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
> and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..  
>  
> To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back 
> on Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it 
> and have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to 
> work voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out 
> to help us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to 
> welcome all workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scottish 
> Experience a reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and valuable 
> experience for them.
>  
> Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that 
> the UK has voted to leave the EU.
>  
> He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with 
> the result of last nights vote.
>  
> Does he have no P. A. staff:
>  
> Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the 
> beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.
>  
> But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning her 
> back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most powerful 
> man in the world.
>  
> As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends, 
> I’m very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that 
> there is nothing wrong with that!
> No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind 
> community and I’m proud of that also.
>  
> So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of 
> turmoile.
>  
> We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's a 
> promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special 
> relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be 
> tossed aside by the likes of Trump!
>  
>  
>  
> Very best wishes as always.
>  
> Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.
> - Original Message -
> From: Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
> To: Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>  
> So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?  
>  
> Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
> where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?
>  
> I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks to 
> our livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was worth 
> people losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and upset 
> because of some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I said and 
> on TV at the moment there are those who are still 

RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Simon Fogarty]

Hey you skirt wearing crazy man, we live here to.
What about New Zealand, I’m hert by that,

Just because no one knows we’re down here doesn’t mean we don’t exist.

Hmmmp. Off I go in a huff!

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 5:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Hi all.

I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists , 
concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in Britain 
America, Canada and Australia.
Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
Europe!

In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as they 
are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my American 
friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a vicctory for my 
little country..

However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that almost 
every one else voted to leave.

I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud Euro 
pean.

Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..

To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back on 
Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it and 
have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to work 
voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out to help 
us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to welcome all 
workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scottish Experience a 
reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for 
them.

Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that 
the UK has voted to leave the EU.

He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with the 
result of last nights vote.

Does he have no P. A. staff:

Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the 
beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.

But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning her 
back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most powerful 
man in the world.

As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends, I’m 
very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that there 
is nothing wrong with that!
No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind 
community and I’m proud of that also.

So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of turmoile.

We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's a 
promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special 
relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be 
tossed aside by the likes of Trump!



Very best wishes as always.

Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.
- Original Message -
From: Kawal Gucukoglu<mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
To: Macvisionaries<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?

Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?

I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks to our 
livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was worth people 
losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and upset because of 
some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I said and on TV at the 
moment there are those who are still arguing as to what happens next and the 
rest of the EU saying that there will be consequences.  How can the world heal, 
come together and be more tolerant?  Then Mr Trump changing his tune to fit the 
circumstances.  American are also in some difficulty as the Democrats had a 
sitting in congress to get gun laws but the republicans say no so there is no 
unity in the world and at present I am worried about how things will pan out 
for the world.  Sorry this is pessimistic but I live for the long term and not 
the short.  I am a deep person and take seriously the world’s problems to heart.

Kawal.

On 24 Jun 2016, at 13:05, CHUCK REICHEL 
<soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com<mailto:soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Scott,
Sorry to hear about your loss. :(
As for England I also will raise a frosty mug of Sam adams and celebr

RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Simon Fogarty]

I'll apologise to any welsh on the list,

 Not only have you been dragged out of the EU, but your butts will be kicked 
again this evening by the all blacks, but hey, not everyone can be the best in 
the world.
And our sports teams don't ware pads like those wimpy NFL American football 
players!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 4:23 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Correction on the US stock market. The app did not refresh when I first 
looked. Its in negative territory over 500 points down.

Now I will head out and get some coffee. Too early to hoist a pint.

Perhaps the weekend will find some sort of rebound for many of us.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 7:08 AM, E.T. wrote:
>Normally I would say its way off topic but this is something that 
> can have a huge impact on us all. It was predicted the stock markets 
> would feel pain but here in the US there is no sign of that.
>
>Come November though, that could be a different story. I can wait, 
> though just like pulling a tooth, lets get it over with and move on.
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 6/24/2016 6:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> We could learn something from your secular example!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I would also like to thank the Moderators for allowing this thread 
>> which is terribly off topic to continue.  We probably should wrap it 
>> up but I do thank Mark and Kara for allowing it go this far.  I think 
>> it was important and I also think it was important to say that a lot 
>> of us here didn’t agree with the meddling in your affairs either.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you Moderators and thanks everyone for the spirited discussion.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
>> <a...@anarchie.org.uk>
>> *Reply-To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> *Date: *Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:41 AM
>> *To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Sabahattin,
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:55, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com
>> <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of
>> need for a kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so
>> efficient and socially competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my
>> taste.  My own experience with the NHS (but not for a transplant)
>> has been truly wonderful, so your story makes me sad.  Now we’re
>> out, presumably we won’t see any more of that wonderful efficiency
>> from across the channel.
>>
>> I was actually refused dialysis even though I was suffering horribly 
>> with so much fluid retention that moisture was seeping through my skin.
>> A very compassionate doctor eventually got me onto a dialysis machine 
>> and saved my life.
>>
>>
>>
>> The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like 
>> visible signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state 
>> is officially secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims 
>> in France which is almost a tenth of the population. Of course, 
>> France has its share of bigots of all kinds, just like everywhere else.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Anne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to macvisionaries

RE: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Simon Fogarty]

You might want to check that out again,

 A number of stock markets have taken a dive, but I personally believe that 
will be the better or the world economy.

 There are a number of countries within the EU that are really struggling, be 
that due to their incompetence or the EU's I can't really say myself but I 
think this has been coming for some time and lets face it, it's not just 
effecting the UK and the EU, this will impact on the globle scale doe totrade 
and currancys 
The Pound yesterday was worth something around the $1.50 against the NZ dollar, 
it hasn't been that good for a bloody long time,

 Lets just see where it goes and with any luck it will make things stronger for 
the UK overall, oh and carefull selecting a new PM between now and October.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 2:08 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

Normally I would say its way off topic but this is something that can have 
a huge impact on us all. It was predicted the stock markets would feel pain but 
here in the US there is no sign of that.

Come November though, that could be a different story. I can wait, though 
just like pulling a tooth, lets get it over with and move on.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 6:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> We could learn something from your secular example!
>
>
>
>
>
> I would also like to thank the Moderators for allowing this thread 
> which is terribly off topic to continue.  We probably should wrap it 
> up but I do thank Mark and Kara for allowing it go this far.  I think 
> it was important and I also think it was important to say that a lot 
> of us here didn’t agree with the meddling in your affairs either.
>
>
>
> Thank you Moderators and thanks everyone for the spirited discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
> <a...@anarchie.org.uk>
> *Reply-To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> *Date: *Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:41 AM
> *To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject: *Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>
>
>
> Hello Sabahattin,
>
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:55, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com
> <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of
> need for a kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so
> efficient and socially competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my
> taste.  My own experience with the NHS (but not for a transplant)
> has been truly wonderful, so your story makes me sad.  Now we’re
> out, presumably we won’t see any more of that wonderful efficiency
> from across the channel.
>
> I was actually refused dialysis even though I was suffering horribly 
> with so much fluid retention that moisture was seeping through my skin.
> A very compassionate doctor eventually got me onto a dialysis machine 
> and saved my life.
>
>
>
> The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like 
> visible signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state is 
> officially secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims in 
> France which is almost a tenth of the population. Of course, France 
> has its share of bigots of all kinds, just like everywhere else.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Anne
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://group

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Vaughn Brown]

Hi Andy,

Thank you for explaining all of this. I did not realize the "refugee
crisis" played such a big role in the choices made. I sincerely
appreciate the explaination and will follow the proceedings more
carefully. The news reporters in the U.S did not explain the entire
matter well enough -- most likely because they, themselves, do not
understand how the UK's politics works or the huge impact. All the
reporters seem to be obsess about is the global market. Not once did I
hear the refugee matter being discussed in detail.

I'm glad Scotland has open borders. And yes, I agree that nations
should act together to help other nations prevent wars and refugee
fleeings.

Kindly,
Vaughn

On 6/24/16, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> hi Vaughn.
>
> It really sounds crazy, but last nights vote has taken all of the UK's four
>
> nations, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, out of Europe without
> Scotland having it's say.
>
> Hardly anyone in the UK  would have put money on Brittan leaving the
> European Community last night, so to be honest, we did not see it coming,,
> until we woke this morning.
>
> To be fair on England, they have had more than their shair of refugees and
> this is causing terrible problems in a local sense, regarding, housing,
> medical care, education and so on.  The English therefor, are too some
> extent justifyed in expressing their concerns with this diminished lack of
> local provision, but in doing so makes them look heartless and uncaring, as
>
> many of these refugees are coming from the middle east.  A problem I may add
>
> of our Governments own making.
>
>
> This represents very poor forward planning from our polititions, who will
> enter into conflict and not give a thought to the future commitments or
> responsibilities of their actions
>
>
> On the opposing side  however, my First Minister, Miss Nicola Sturgen, is
> welcoming all new comers to Scotland as do I as we need professional young
> staff to run this country, after we are gone, so all are welcome.
> Very best wishes.
> Andy.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Vaughn Brown" <jazzdress...@gmail.com>
> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 8:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
> Andy,
>
> This conversation has been fascinating to me from a historical pointof
> view -- and it sounds like the Scottish are not pleased with
> Britain politically speaking. Who cares about the golf course? That
> trip of his made me upset. But American ignorance aside, educate us on
> how Scottish is impacted. It seems to me that Scotland is still part
> of Europe but that Britain has left the union. I understand the world
> financial influence. When I think of the UK, or Great Britain, I think
> of England, Wales, and Scotland. With Scotland's not wanting to
> divorce from the EU, what does this mean? And what about Wales?
> It sounds like England was the one to dodge out.
> Thank you for the education and clarification.
>
> Vaughn
>
> On 6/24/16, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Hi all.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other
>> lists
>> , concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in
>> Britain America, Canada and Australia.
>>
>> Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to
>> leave
>> Europe!
>>
>>
>>
>> In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to
>> remain
>> with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as
>> they are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my
>> American friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a
>> vicctory for my little country..
>>
>>
>>
>> However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that
>> almost every one else voted to leave.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud
>> Euro pean.
>>
>>
>>
>> Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to
>> be
>> European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English
>> naibours and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..
>>
>>
>>
>> To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my
>> back
>> on Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of
>> it
>> and have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer
>> to
>> work volunt

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Andy]

hi Vaughn.

It really sounds crazy, but last nights vote has taken all of the UK's four 
nations, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, out of Europe without 
Scotland having it's say.


Hardly anyone in the UK  would have put money on Brittan leaving the 
European Community last night, so to be honest, we did not see it coming,, 
until we woke this morning.


To be fair on England, they have had more than their shair of refugees and 
this is causing terrible problems in a local sense, regarding, housing, 
medical care, education and so on.  The English therefor, are too some 
extent justifyed in expressing their concerns with this diminished lack of 
local provision, but in doing so makes them look heartless and uncaring, as 
many of these refugees are coming from the middle east.  A problem I may add 
of our Governments own making.



This represents very poor forward planning from our polititions, who will 
enter into conflict and not give a thought to the future commitments or 
responsibilities of their actions



On the opposing side  however, my First Minister, Miss Nicola Sturgen, is 
welcoming all new comers to Scotland as do I as we need professional young 
staff to run this country, after we are gone, so all are welcome.

Very best wishes.
Andy.



- Original Message - 
From: "Vaughn Brown" <jazzdress...@gmail.com>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
Andy,

This conversation has been fascinating to me from a historical pointof 
view -- and it sounds like the Scottish are not pleased with

Britain politically speaking. Who cares about the golf course? That
trip of his made me upset. But American ignorance aside, educate us on
how Scottish is impacted. It seems to me that Scotland is still part
of Europe but that Britain has left the union. I understand the world
financial influence. When I think of the UK, or Great Britain, I think
of England, Wales, and Scotland. With Scotland's not wanting to
divorce from the EU, what does this mean? And what about Wales?
It sounds like England was the one to dodge out.
Thank you for the education and clarification.

Vaughn

On 6/24/16, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:

Hi all.



I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other 
lists

, concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in
Britain America, Canada and Australia.

Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave
Europe!



In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to 
remain

with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as
they are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my
American friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a
vicctory for my little country..



However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that
almost every one else voted to leave.



I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud
Euro pean.



Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English
naibours and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..



To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my 
back

on Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it
and have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to
work voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat 
out

to help us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to
welcome all workers and visitors from all over the world to make the
Scottish Experience a reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and
valuable experience for them.



Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight 
that

the UK has voted to leave the EU.



He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with
the result of last nights vote.



Does he have no P. A. staff:



Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the
beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.



But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning
her back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most
powerful man in the world.



As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian 
friends,
I’m very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, 
that

there is nothing wrong with that!

No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special 
blind

community and I’m proud of that also.



So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of
turmoile.



We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and 
that's

a promise, so please fink of us 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Andy,

Well, on behalf of all of the progressives in the UK who chose to stay in 
unity, I say, good for you!

It looks like the SNP will declare another referendum.  You should be on board 
when that happens to decide whether you want to be in union with the 
Westminster establishment and the isolationist majority of this dank little 
island, or not.  I for one will be happy for you if you decide you want out.  
You can leave us, and stay in the EU.  Ms Sturgeon will sit at table with Sadiq 
Khan (London mayor) in order to negotiate Britain’s position with the EU; 
London (which is where I am) was also hit very hard by a majority Remain vote.

What saddens me most are some of the reasons people have given for leaving.  
Many of the working poor wanted to leave not because they have any great beef 
with the institutions of Europe, but because they want to undercut the rich who 
benefit from free movement of EU citizens.  Of all the things you need to 
justify tearing up the foundations of this country, this one has to be among 
the most bitter and desperate imaginable, because the people who will be hit 
the hardest are—you guessed it—the working poor.  Immigration will simply be 
from other non-EU countries, and the labour rights drawn up by the EU to 
protect these poor little Englanders won’t be there to protect them any more.

I am hoping for a miracle just now.

Ahem.  Right, I’ll try and stay quiet on this issue now. Although I’m sure you 
understand if I find it very hard. :)

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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Vaughn Brown]

Andy,

This conversation has been fascinating to me from a historical point
of view -- and it sounds like the Scottish are not pleased with
Britain politically speaking. Who cares about the golf course? That
trip of his made me upset. But American ignorance aside, educate us on
how Scottish is impacted. It seems to me that Scotland is still part
of Europe but that Britain has left the union. I understand the world
financial influence. When I think of the UK, or Great Britain, I think
of England, Wales, and Scotland. With Scotland's not wanting to
divorce from the EU, what does this mean? And what about Wales?
It sounds like England was the one to dodge out.
Thank you for the education and clarification.

Vaughn

On 6/24/16, Andy <meikle.ai...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Hi all.
>
>
>
> I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists
> , concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in
> Britain America, Canada and Australia.
>
> Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave
> Europe!
>
>
>
> In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain
> with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as
> they are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my
> American friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a
> vicctory for my little country..
>
>
>
> However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that
> almost every one else voted to leave.
>
>
>
> I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud
> Euro pean.
>
>
>
> Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be
> European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English
> naibours and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..
>
>
>
> To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back
> on Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it
> and have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to
> work voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out
> to help us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to
> welcome all workers and visitors from all over the world to make the
> Scottish Experience a reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and
> valuable experience for them.
>
>
>
> Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that
> the UK has voted to leave the EU.
>
>
>
> He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with
> the result of last nights vote.
>
>
>
> Does he have no P. A. staff:
>
>
>
> Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the
> beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.
>
>
>
> But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning
> her back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most
> powerful man in the world.
>
>
>
> As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends,
> I’m very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that
> there is nothing wrong with that!
>
> No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind
> community and I’m proud of that also.
>
>
>
> So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of
> turmoile.
>
>
>
> We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's
> a promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special
> relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be
> tossed aside by the likes of Trump!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Very best wishes as always.
>
>
>
> Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.
>
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Kawal Gucukoglu
>   To: Macvisionaries
>   Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM
>   Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>
>
>   So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?
>
>
>
>   Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland
> so where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?
>
>
>   I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks
> to our livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was
> worth people losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and
> upset because of some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I
> said and on TV at the moment there are those who are

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Andy]

Hi all.



I'm Scottish and a proud European and a proud member of this and other lists , 
concerned with the blind community , which include all of my friends in Britain 
America, Canada and Australia.

Can I please assure you all that Scotland did not vote last night to leave 
Europe!



In Scotland we have 32 Local Authorities and each returned a vote to remain 
with in Europe.  That's Leave 0 votes, Remain 32 votes, to keep things as they 
are, which represents 62 % of our voting community, so pleas, to my American 
friends, don't be Trumpted with this rubbish, the result was a vicctory for my 
little country..

 

However, little Scotland is only  a quarter of the UK and it seems that almost 
every one else voted to leave.

  

I'm a proud Scot, a British resident and until yesterday, a equally proud Euro 
pean.



Today, Well I’m gutted.  I'm no longer considered, against my will,  to be 
European as I've been dragged out of this relationship by my English naibours 
and I find myself Scottish and Brittish only once more..  



To be honest because of the treachery from Westminster, I've turned my back on 
Brittan and declare that I'm Scottish and only Scottish and proud of it and 
have lifted the flag for Independence again.  I intend to volunteer to work 
voluntary with the Scottish National Party and intend to work flat out to help 
us make our country remain as a part of Europe, and continue to welcome all 
workers and visitors from all over the world to make the Scottish Experience a 
reality for them, and above all, an enlightened and valuable experience for 
them.



Donald Trump has today, on the shores of Scotland expressed his delight that 
the UK has voted to leave the EU.



He's daft.  He expressed his feelings in a country that is devastated with the 
result of last nights vote.



Does he have no P. A. staff:



Surely, before opening his big fat mouth "again" he would have checked the 
beach to make sure there was a safe landing for him and his cronies.

 

But this is Donald.  This is the future with Scotland forced into turning her 
back on friends and collegues in Europ with Donald Trump as the most powerful 
man in the world.

 

As for me, I’m Scottish and like many of my American and Canaidian friends, I’m 
very proud of my country and heritage and I'm sure you will agree, that there 
is nothing wrong with that!

No matter the future, I will remain very much part of our very special blind 
community and I’m proud of that also.

 

So thanks guys and thanks for thinking of little Scotland at a time of turmoile.

 

We will always be friends in this small blind community of ours, and that's a 
promise, so please fink of us in your thoughts tonight.  Our special 
relationship goes back to the war of independanse and valuable and not to be 
tossed aside by the likes of Trump!





 

Very best wishes as always.

 

Andy Logue from Kilcreggan Scotland.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kawal Gucukoglu 
  To: Macvisionaries 
  Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well


  So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?  


  Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?


  I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks to 
our livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was worth 
people losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and upset because 
of some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I said and on TV at 
the moment there are those who are still arguing as to what happens next and 
the rest of the EU saying that there will be consequences.  How can the world 
heal, come together and be more tolerant?  Then Mr Trump changing his tune to 
fit the circumstances.  American are also in some difficulty as the Democrats 
had a sitting in congress to get gun laws but the republicans say no so there 
is no unity in the world and at present I am worried about how things will pan 
out for the world.  Sorry this is pessimistic but I live for the long term and 
not the short.  I am a deep person and take seriously the world’s problems to 
heart.


  Kawal.


On 24 Jun 2016, at 13:05, CHUCK REICHEL <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


Hi Scott,
Sorry to hear about your loss. :(
As for England I also will raise a frosty mug of Sam adams and celebrate 
and wait till "november" here in the USA for the same!
GOD Bless America!
Home of Apple! :)
Talk soon
Chuck

On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:58 PM, Scott Granados wrote:


  Well I’ve been riveted watching this all day, I’m going on 24 hours here, 
it’s also a welcome distraction to some really really bad stuff happening on my 
family level right now so forgive me if I use your country’s politics as a 
distraction.:)  My gr

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[E.T.]

   Correction on the US stock market. The app did not refresh when I 
first looked. Its in negative territory over 500 points down.


   Now I will head out and get some coffee. Too early to hoist a pint.

   Perhaps the weekend will find some sort of rebound for many of us.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 7:08 AM, E.T. wrote:

   Normally I would say its way off topic but this is something that can
have a huge impact on us all. It was predicted the stock markets would
feel pain but here in the US there is no sign of that.

   Come November though, that could be a different story. I can wait,
though just like pulling a tooth, lets get it over with and move on.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 6:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

We could learn something from your secular example!





I would also like to thank the Moderators for allowing this thread which
is terribly off topic to continue.  We probably should wrap it up but I
do thank Mark and Kara for allowing it go this far.  I think it was
important and I also think it was important to say that a lot of us here
didn’t agree with the meddling in your affairs either.



Thank you Moderators and thanks everyone for the spirited discussion.





*From: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson
<a...@anarchie.org.uk>
*Reply-To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Date: *Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:41 AM
*To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Subject: *Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well



Hello Sabahattin,



On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:55, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com
<mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:



Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of
need for a kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so
efficient and socially competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my
taste.  My own experience with the NHS (but not for a transplant)
has been truly wonderful, so your story makes me sad.  Now we’re
out, presumably we won’t see any more of that wonderful efficiency
from across the channel.

I was actually refused dialysis even though I was suffering horribly
with so much fluid retention that moisture was seeping through my skin.
A very compassionate doctor eventually got me onto a dialysis machine
and saved my life.



The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like
visible signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state is
officially secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims in
France which is almost a tenth of the population. Of course, France has
its share of bigots of all kinds, just like everywhere else.



Cheers,



Anne





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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:41, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like visible 
> signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state is officially 
> secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims in France which is 
> almost a tenth of the population. Of course, France has its share of bigots 
> of all kinds, just like everywhere else.

Secularism is fine by me (I’m Agnostic personally, and Turkey is a near-entire 
Muslim state, but recognises secularism officially) but the nationalist 
sentiments against Islam in France do seem to be at an all-time high, probably 
owing to the Paris attacks.  Of course I realise there are bigots everywhere, 
but it’s still alarming to see such an upstanding socialist country garner so 
much hate, almost as government policy.  And I do disagree that, for example, 
miqabs should be forbidden outside clearly secular venues, even if I personally 
find the ideas that they represent objectionable; it is after all the belief 
that some Muslim women hold.

This would be a very interesting discussion, but not on this list, I fancy, and 
especially not on this topic, so I probably shouldn’t have brought it up. :) 
But feel free to follow up if you like.

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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[E.T.]

   Normally I would say its way off topic but this is something that 
can have a huge impact on us all. It was predicted the stock markets 
would feel pain but here in the US there is no sign of that.


   Come November though, that could be a different story. I can wait, 
though just like pulling a tooth, lets get it over with and move on.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/24/2016 6:35 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

We could learn something from your secular example!





I would also like to thank the Moderators for allowing this thread which
is terribly off topic to continue.  We probably should wrap it up but I
do thank Mark and Kara for allowing it go this far.  I think it was
important and I also think it was important to say that a lot of us here
didn’t agree with the meddling in your affairs either.



Thank you Moderators and thanks everyone for the spirited discussion.





*From: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson
<a...@anarchie.org.uk>
*Reply-To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Date: *Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:41 AM
*To: *<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Subject: *Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well



Hello Sabahattin,



On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:55, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com
<mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:



Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of
need for a kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so
efficient and socially competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my
taste.  My own experience with the NHS (but not for a transplant)
has been truly wonderful, so your story makes me sad.  Now we’re
out, presumably we won’t see any more of that wonderful efficiency
from across the channel.

I was actually refused dialysis even though I was suffering horribly
with so much fluid retention that moisture was seeping through my skin.
A very compassionate doctor eventually got me onto a dialysis machine
and saved my life.



The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like
visible signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state is
officially secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims in
France which is almost a tenth of the population. Of course, France has
its share of bigots of all kinds, just like everywhere else.



Cheers,



Anne





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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I just hope that the moderators of this list will let this topic be an 
exception for once as in a way people travel the world especially to 
exhibitions of access technology and for once we have had a discussion of how 
the world is.  If the moderators feel that we have done something wrong in 
discussing this matter then the spirit of this list will be diminished.  This 
was a historical decision so if the moderators wish to comment then they can do 
so and if they wish to take our rights away by putting those of us on 
notification that our membership is to be taken away then this list will be 
poorer.

The moderators can get in touch with me privately if they wish to do this so as 
not to have this discussion on this list as I know people won’t like it and 
they will complain.

Those of you who do not like what is said, then by all means press the delete 
key and move on.

Kawal. 
> On 24 Jun 2016, at 14:35, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net> wrote:
> 
> We could learn something from your secular example!
>  
>  
> I would also like to thank the Moderators for allowing this thread which is 
> terribly off topic to continue.  We probably should wrap it up but I do thank 
> Mark and Kara for allowing it go this far.  I think it was important and I 
> also think it was important to say that a lot of us here didn’t agree with 
> the meddling in your affairs either.
>  
> Thank you Moderators and thanks everyone for the spirited discussion.
>  
>  
> From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
> <a...@anarchie.org.uk <mailto:a...@anarchie.org.uk>>
> Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
> Date: Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:41 AM
> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>  
> Hello Sabahattin,
>  
>> On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:55, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com 
>> <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of need for a 
>> kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so efficient and socially 
>> competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my taste.  My own experience with 
>> the NHS (but not for a transplant) has been truly wonderful, so your story 
>> makes me sad.  Now we’re out, presumably we won’t see any more of that 
>> wonderful efficiency from across the channel.
> 
> I was actually refused dialysis even though I was suffering horribly with so 
> much fluid retention that moisture was seeping through my skin. A very 
> compassionate doctor eventually got me onto a dialysis machine and saved my 
> life.
>  
> The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like visible 
> signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state is officially 
> secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims in France which is 
> almost a tenth of the population. Of course, France has its share of bigots 
> of all kinds, just like everywhere else.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Anne
>  
>  
> -- 
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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

We could learn something from your secular example!

 

 

I would also like to thank the Moderators for allowing this thread which is 
terribly off topic to continue.  We probably should wrap it up but I do thank 
Mark and Kara for allowing it go this far.  I think it was important and I also 
think it was important to say that a lot of us here didn’t agree with the 
meddling in your affairs either.

 

Thank you Moderators and thanks everyone for the spirited discussion.

 

 

From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
<a...@anarchie.org.uk>
Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:41 AM
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

Hello Sabahattin,

 

On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:55, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:

 

Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of need for a 
kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so efficient and socially 
competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my taste.  My own experience with 
the NHS (but not for a transplant) has been truly wonderful, so your story 
makes me sad.  Now we’re out, presumably we won’t see any more of that 
wonderful efficiency from across the channel.

I was actually refused dialysis even though I was suffering horribly with so 
much fluid retention that moisture was seeping through my skin. A very 
compassionate doctor eventually got me onto a dialysis machine and saved my 
life.

 

The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like visible 
signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state is officially 
secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims in France which is 
almost a tenth of the population. Of course, France has its share of bigots of 
all kinds, just like everywhere else.

 

Cheers,

 

Anne

 

 

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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Antonio Guimaraes]

Off-topic? no doubt!!

All seventeen messages in this thread.










> On Jun 24, 2016, at 9:17 AM, Angie Nutt  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kawal
> 
> Like you I voted to remain, in part because of my concern for the economy. 
> While the campaign was going on a friend of mine said that if we leave we’d 
> be throwing the baby out with the bath water to which I wholeheartedly agree. 
> I hope the leave vote was worth it and that we do better than if we had 
> stayed or at least as well. Who knows?
> 
> All the best
> Angie
>> On 24 Jun 2016, at 14:04, Kawal Gucukoglu > > wrote:
>> 
>> So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?  
>> 
>> Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
>> where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?
>> 
>> I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks to 
>> our livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was worth 
>> people losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and upset 
>> because of some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I said 
>> and on TV at the moment there are those who are still arguing as to what 
>> happens next and the rest of the EU saying that there will be consequences.  
>> How can the world heal, come together and be more tolerant?  Then Mr Trump 
>> changing his tune to fit the circumstances.  American are also in some 
>> difficulty as the Democrats had a sitting in congress to get gun laws but 
>> the republicans say no so there is no unity in the world and at present I am 
>> worried about how things will pan out for the world.  Sorry this is 
>> pessimistic but I live for the long term and not the short.  I am a deep 
>> person and take seriously the world’s problems to heart.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>>> On 24 Jun 2016, at 13:05, CHUCK REICHEL >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> Sorry to hear about your loss. :(
>>> As for England I also will raise a frosty mug of Sam adams and celebrate 
>>> and wait till "november" here in the USA for the same!
>>> GOD Bless America!
>>> Home of Apple! :)
>>> Talk soon
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:58 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> 
 Well I’ve been riveted watching this all day, I’m going on 24 hours here, 
 it’s also a welcome distraction to some really really bad stuff happening 
 on my family level right now so forgive me if I use your country’s 
 politics as a distraction.:)  My grandmother oddly enough who is the 
 connection to Britain for me passed after 96 years on this rock and it’s 
 all closing in on me now that I am only one of 3 left in our family and 
 the other 2 are on the shorter end of their lives than longer so I’m 
 feeling a bit freaked out and my numbers are dwindling down to 0 so if I 
 get in the weeds you get it.
To give you an idea why I feel such a connection with your country my 
 family on my mother’s side came to this country fairly recently.  My grand 
 mother and grand father came over to this country on boats I believe 
 before world war 2 and settled on the east coast as well as Detroit.  My 
 great Grand father, mother’s grand father actually worked on your crown 
 jewels.  I have jewelers drawings hand made by him used to create some of 
 the items in your tower of London today.  I’ve frequently thought about 
 giving them to one of your museums if you’d have them but I have no idea 
 their value or if they represent any thing special to the British people 
 or even what or who should have them.  It’s this man’s daughter, my grand 
 mother who passed this morning.  She taught me so much about your part of 
 the world from your money to telling me stories about my cousins who I 
 don’t know but sell fruit in fruit stands somewhere in London or another 
 husband and wife relation of ours who I met once years ago and don’t know 
 exactly how they fit but they own a sweater company in Scotland.  I 
 remember these people coming to visit us and my Grand Father who is from 
 Whales loved taking them to sites around the north east US where we 
 americans beat back the British during the Revolution.:)  He loved giving 
 the English side of our family a real ribbing about the revolution when 
 they would come to visit. In the same breath though, my grandfather served 
 during World War II and I know always talked about the Brits he served 
 proudly with.  
I say all this because I’m not the only one.  So many of us have such 
 connections to your island.  So understand when you say all in together 
 and all that, I consider very much we folks on both sides of the pond on 
 the same team.
BTW, BBC and ITV just called it in favor of leaving  I’m 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Angie Nutt]

Hi Kawal

Like you I voted to remain, in part because of my concern for the economy. 
While the campaign was going on a friend of mine said that if we leave we’d be 
throwing the baby out with the bath water to which I wholeheartedly agree. I 
hope the leave vote was worth it and that we do better than if we had stayed or 
at least as well. Who knows?

All the best
Angie
> On 24 Jun 2016, at 14:04, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?  
> 
> Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
> where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?
> 
> I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks to 
> our livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was worth 
> people losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and upset 
> because of some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I said and 
> on TV at the moment there are those who are still arguing as to what happens 
> next and the rest of the EU saying that there will be consequences.  How can 
> the world heal, come together and be more tolerant?  Then Mr Trump changing 
> his tune to fit the circumstances.  American are also in some difficulty as 
> the Democrats had a sitting in congress to get gun laws but the republicans 
> say no so there is no unity in the world and at present I am worried about 
> how things will pan out for the world.  Sorry this is pessimistic but I live 
> for the long term and not the short.  I am a deep person and take seriously 
> the world’s problems to heart.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
>> On 24 Jun 2016, at 13:05, CHUCK REICHEL > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> Sorry to hear about your loss. :(
>> As for England I also will raise a frosty mug of Sam adams and celebrate and 
>> wait till "november" here in the USA for the same!
>> GOD Bless America!
>> Home of Apple! :)
>> Talk soon
>> Chuck
>> 
>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:58 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> 
>>> Well I’ve been riveted watching this all day, I’m going on 24 hours here, 
>>> it’s also a welcome distraction to some really really bad stuff happening 
>>> on my family level right now so forgive me if I use your country’s politics 
>>> as a distraction.:)  My grandmother oddly enough who is the connection to 
>>> Britain for me passed after 96 years on this rock and it’s all closing in 
>>> on me now that I am only one of 3 left in our family and the other 2 are on 
>>> the shorter end of their lives than longer so I’m feeling a bit freaked out 
>>> and my numbers are dwindling down to 0 so if I get in the weeds you get it.
>>> To give you an idea why I feel such a connection with your country my 
>>> family on my mother’s side came to this country fairly recently.  My grand 
>>> mother and grand father came over to this country on boats I believe before 
>>> world war 2 and settled on the east coast as well as Detroit.  My great 
>>> Grand father, mother’s grand father actually worked on your crown jewels.  
>>> I have jewelers drawings hand made by him used to create some of the items 
>>> in your tower of London today.  I’ve frequently thought about giving them 
>>> to one of your museums if you’d have them but I have no idea their value or 
>>> if they represent any thing special to the British people or even what or 
>>> who should have them.  It’s this man’s daughter, my grand mother who passed 
>>> this morning.  She taught me so much about your part of the world from your 
>>> money to telling me stories about my cousins who I don’t know but sell 
>>> fruit in fruit stands somewhere in London or another husband and wife 
>>> relation of ours who I met once years ago and don’t know exactly how they 
>>> fit but they own a sweater company in Scotland.  I remember these people 
>>> coming to visit us and my Grand Father who is from Whales loved taking them 
>>> to sites around the north east US where we americans beat back the British 
>>> during the Revolution.:)  He loved giving the English side of our family a 
>>> real ribbing about the revolution when they would come to visit. In the 
>>> same breath though, my grandfather served during World War II and I know 
>>> always talked about the Brits he served proudly with.  
>>> I say all this because I’m not the only one.  So many of us have such 
>>> connections to your island.  So understand when you say all in together and 
>>> all that, I consider very much we folks on both sides of the pond on the 
>>> same team.
>>> BTW, BBC and ITV just called it in favor of leaving  I’m shocked but 
>>> you’ve definitely made things interesting over here.  Your vaporizing my 
>>> financial holdings as I watch this, thanks guys☺, but I’m in, I wish we 
>>> could shake off our oppressive federal government like you all just did the 
>>> EU.  The rebel in me feels a 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

So today, I have very anxious feelings of what will be for Britain next?  

Scotland wishes to leave and may be we get the reunification for Ireland so 
where does this leave the rest of the UK, England and Wales?

I just hope inflation and interest rates will not rise and present risks to our 
livelihoods.  I deplore British citizens saying that this vote was worth people 
losing their jobs.  I have been feeling very emotional and upset because of 
some selfish people in society.  I voted to remain like I said and on TV at the 
moment there are those who are still arguing as to what happens next and the 
rest of the EU saying that there will be consequences.  How can the world heal, 
come together and be more tolerant?  Then Mr Trump changing his tune to fit the 
circumstances.  American are also in some difficulty as the Democrats had a 
sitting in congress to get gun laws but the republicans say no so there is no 
unity in the world and at present I am worried about how things will pan out 
for the world.  Sorry this is pessimistic but I live for the long term and not 
the short.  I am a deep person and take seriously the world’s problems to heart.

Kawal.

> On 24 Jun 2016, at 13:05, CHUCK REICHEL  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> Sorry to hear about your loss. :(
> As for England I also will raise a frosty mug of Sam adams and celebrate and 
> wait till "november" here in the USA for the same!
> GOD Bless America!
> Home of Apple! :)
> Talk soon
> Chuck
> 
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:58 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> 
>> Well I’ve been riveted watching this all day, I’m going on 24 hours here, 
>> it’s also a welcome distraction to some really really bad stuff happening on 
>> my family level right now so forgive me if I use your country’s politics as 
>> a distraction.:)  My grandmother oddly enough who is the connection to 
>> Britain for me passed after 96 years on this rock and it’s all closing in on 
>> me now that I am only one of 3 left in our family and the other 2 are on the 
>> shorter end of their lives than longer so I’m feeling a bit freaked out and 
>> my numbers are dwindling down to 0 so if I get in the weeds you get it.
>>  To give you an idea why I feel such a connection with your country my 
>> family on my mother’s side came to this country fairly recently.  My grand 
>> mother and grand father came over to this country on boats I believe before 
>> world war 2 and settled on the east coast as well as Detroit.  My great 
>> Grand father, mother’s grand father actually worked on your crown jewels.  I 
>> have jewelers drawings hand made by him used to create some of the items in 
>> your tower of London today.  I’ve frequently thought about giving them to 
>> one of your museums if you’d have them but I have no idea their value or if 
>> they represent any thing special to the British people or even what or who 
>> should have them.  It’s this man’s daughter, my grand mother who passed this 
>> morning.  She taught me so much about your part of the world from your money 
>> to telling me stories about my cousins who I don’t know but sell fruit in 
>> fruit stands somewhere in London or another husband and wife relation of 
>> ours who I met once years ago and don’t know exactly how they fit but they 
>> own a sweater company in Scotland.  I remember these people coming to visit 
>> us and my Grand Father who is from Whales loved taking them to sites around 
>> the north east US where we americans beat back the British during the 
>> Revolution.:)  He loved giving the English side of our family a real ribbing 
>> about the revolution when they would come to visit. In the same breath 
>> though, my grandfather served during World War II and I know always talked 
>> about the Brits he served proudly with.  
>>  I say all this because I’m not the only one.  So many of us have such 
>> connections to your island.  So understand when you say all in together and 
>> all that, I consider very much we folks on both sides of the pond on the 
>> same team.
>>  BTW, BBC and ITV just called it in favor of leaving  I’m shocked but 
>> you’ve definitely made things interesting over here.  Your vaporizing my 
>> financial holdings as I watch this, thanks guys☺, but I’m in, I wish we 
>> could shake off our oppressive federal government like you all just did the 
>> EU.  The rebel in me feels a real connection to your side right now.  Not 
>> for racial reasons, not for fear of any group but for self determination, 
>> self rule, beating back the huge corporate and global interests that do not 
>> have your country’s best interest at heart.  I know the economic arguments 
>> made against you leaving and I say bunk.  You’re a strong country, you do 
>> not need the approval of brussels to get through your day.  The UK alone is 
>> a massive economy, thankfully you never wrapped your self in the Euro so 
>> your pound will carry on.  I will buy many of your pounds 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Scott,
Sorry to hear about your loss. :(
As for England I also will raise a frosty mug of Sam adams and celebrate and 
wait till "november" here in the USA for the same!
GOD Bless America!
Home of Apple! :)
Talk soon
Chuck

On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:58 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

> Well I’ve been riveted watching this all day, I’m going on 24 hours here, 
> it’s also a welcome distraction to some really really bad stuff happening on 
> my family level right now so forgive me if I use your country’s politics as a 
> distraction.:)  My grandmother oddly enough who is the connection to Britain 
> for me passed after 96 years on this rock and it’s all closing in on me now 
> that I am only one of 3 left in our family and the other 2 are on the shorter 
> end of their lives than longer so I’m feeling a bit freaked out and my 
> numbers are dwindling down to 0 so if I get in the weeds you get it.
>   To give you an idea why I feel such a connection with your country my 
> family on my mother’s side came to this country fairly recently.  My grand 
> mother and grand father came over to this country on boats I believe before 
> world war 2 and settled on the east coast as well as Detroit.  My great Grand 
> father, mother’s grand father actually worked on your crown jewels.  I have 
> jewelers drawings hand made by him used to create some of the items in your 
> tower of London today.  I’ve frequently thought about giving them to one of 
> your museums if you’d have them but I have no idea their value or if they 
> represent any thing special to the British people or even what or who should 
> have them.  It’s this man’s daughter, my grand mother who passed this 
> morning.  She taught me so much about your part of the world from your money 
> to telling me stories about my cousins who I don’t know but sell fruit in 
> fruit stands somewhere in London or another husband and wife relation of ours 
> who I met once years ago and don’t know exactly how they fit but they own a 
> sweater company in Scotland.  I remember these people coming to visit us and 
> my Grand Father who is from Whales loved taking them to sites around the 
> north east US where we americans beat back the British during the 
> Revolution.:)  He loved giving the English side of our family a real ribbing 
> about the revolution when they would come to visit. In the same breath 
> though, my grandfather served during World War II and I know always talked 
> about the Brits he served proudly with.  
>   I say all this because I’m not the only one.  So many of us have such 
> connections to your island.  So understand when you say all in together and 
> all that, I consider very much we folks on both sides of the pond on the same 
> team.
>   BTW, BBC and ITV just called it in favor of leaving  I’m shocked but 
> you’ve definitely made things interesting over here.  Your vaporizing my 
> financial holdings as I watch this, thanks guys☺, but I’m in, I wish we could 
> shake off our oppressive federal government like you all just did the EU.  
> The rebel in me feels a real connection to your side right now.  Not for 
> racial reasons, not for fear of any group but for self determination, self 
> rule, beating back the huge corporate and global interests that do not have 
> your country’s best interest at heart.  I know the economic arguments made 
> against you leaving and I say bunk.  You’re a strong country, you do not need 
> the approval of brussels to get through your day.  The UK alone is a massive 
> economy, thankfully you never wrapped your self in the Euro so your pound 
> will carry on.  I will buy many of your pounds when they tank over the next 
> few days because the fears are irrational and I will do well as will you all 
> doubling down on yourselves.
>   So folks in Florida or Texas, if you wish to break away from the union 
> let me know, I’ll move down and join you.:)  I feel like blasting dixie and 
> blasting a few hundred rounds in the air in celebration of someone, finally, 
> beating back the powers of globalization and centralization of regulation 
> with out representation.  In stead so I don’t get labeled a racist or 
> arrested for making to much noise or being armed in the US I will hoist a 
> cold one in your country’s honor.
> 
> 
> To my Grand Mother Jean and to the fine people of Britain, stay or leave, way 
> to go!  Nicely done and all that on all counts. I drink a Sam Adams beer from 
> the Boston Brewing company in your honor.  The irony is not lost on me nor is 
> it lost o nme that I’m siding with the tories.:) 
> 
> 
> And the associated press just called it and someone is pounding on Borris 
> Johnson’s door trying to wake him up.  Great stuff!
> 
> CNBC just called it in favor of leave also.
> 
> Wow, I’m shocked!
> 
> On 6/23/16, 6:11 PM, "Sabahattin Gucukoglu"  on behalf of listse...@me.com> wrote:
> 
> Mmm, your president does seem to have quite a 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Sabahattin,

> On 24 Jun 2016, at 12:55, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of need for a 
> kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so efficient and socially 
> competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my taste.  My own experience with 
> the NHS (but not for a transplant) has been truly wonderful, so your story 
> makes me sad.  Now we’re out, presumably we won’t see any more of that 
> wonderful efficiency from across the channel.
I was actually refused dialysis even though I was suffering horribly with so 
much fluid retention that moisture was seeping through my skin. A very 
compassionate doctor eventually got me onto a dialysis machine and saved my 
life.

The French are not particularly Islamaphobic, they just don’t like visible 
signs of belonging to a particular religion since the state is officially 
secular. There are, however, around six million Muslims in France which is 
almost a tenth of the population. Of course, France has its share of bigots of 
all kinds, just like everywhere else.

Cheers,

Anne


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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

I won’t be talking to anyone for the next week after this. :(

Yeah it’s amazing what propaganda is capable of.  Like that image of thousands 
of immigrants crossing a European border.  Now I will reconcile myself to the 
idea that we’re alone.  Maybe we’ll manage, maybe we won’t, but it is 
imperative that we get a more centre-left, liberal government in power at the 
earliest opportunity, because this is going to be one hell of a ride for all of 
us and it will not withstand the hard-right neoliberal orthodoxy.

I pity Scotland.  We betrayed them.  They chose to join us in solidarity when 
they had every reason to leave us, and then we tore them out of the EU.  We’re 
monsters!

Anne, that’s absolutely appalling.  You were refused at point of need for a 
kidney transplant by the NHS?  Damn those French, so efficient and socially 
competent—if a little too Islamaphobic for my taste.  My own experience with 
the NHS (but not for a transplant) has been truly wonderful, so your story 
makes me sad.  Now we’re out, presumably we won’t see any more of that 
wonderful efficiency from across the channel.

I realise this thread is off-topic so I fully intend not to contribute too much 
to it going forward … but thank you, moderators, for acceding to it on this one 
occasion.

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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Donna Goodin]

Wow!!!

I'm vacationing right now so wasn't watching this unfold yesterday.  I am 
really surprised - I felt sure that the remain camp would win.  That said, the 
concept of the EU has always seemed flawed to me in that there are some huge 
cultural differences in the countries involved, and those differences 
inevitably will impact each country's economic situation, which in turn impacts 
the rest of the EU.  It will be interesting to see if other countries decide to 
follow the UK's lead.

Good luck to all over there.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 24, 2016, at 12:12 AM, Anne Robertson <a...@anarchie.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hello Scott and everyone,
> 
> Well, the Leave camp has won and I shall now apply for French citizenship. 
> France has been good to me over the years. The French health care system 
> treats me like a valuable member of society, whereas the British health 
> service treated me as worthless and would happily have just let me die of 
> kidney failure because I’m blind. I’m alive and well today because 15 years 
> ago, I had a liver and kidney transplant here in France, so part of my body 
> is already French I suppose.
> 
> As for Britain liberating itself from the influence of multinational 
> corporations – that is certainly not the case. The Tory party is well and 
> truly in bed with big business and now they’ll be free to walk all over the 
> low-paid workers.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
>> On 24 Jun 2016, at 06:22, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net 
>> <mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Don’t be so quick to buy the official version of that MP being murdered.  It 
>> was a horrible thing but I’m not convinced it was entirely as sold on the 
>> news either.  I think in some cases the unhinged are pushd by some with in 
>> the power structure to do what they do.  There’s real indications of 
>> trickery in the mass shootings in the US being used to totally subvert our 
>> constitution, I suspect  something similar there.
>>  
>> That being said, if the French won’t have you we’d love to.  Granted there’s 
>> way to much paperwork to get in to our country but if you’re ready for a 5 
>> year slog we’d happily take you.:)
>> What ever country you decide, they will be lucky to have you.  Just don’t 
>> sell your British citizenship short but do what you must.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
>> <a...@anarchie.org.uk <mailto:a...@anarchie.org.uk>>
>> Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Date: Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 12:12 PM
>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>>  
>> I’m desperately hoping for the Remain vote to win. I no longer have a vote 
>> in Britain as I’ve lived in France for 33 years, but if the Leave side wins, 
>> I’ll be applying for French citizenship.
>>  
>> The MP who was murdered was from my home area and had been headgirl at the 
>> grammar school I attended after opting out of the special education system. 
>> She was much younger than me, so I never knew her, but I felt a certain 
>> connection to her and was horrified by what happened.
>>  
>> Cheers,
>>  
>> Anne
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>> On 23 Jun 2016, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com 
>>> <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Hi Scott and whoever is interested.
>>>  
>>> I cast my vote earlier today.  using a tactile Braille template.  I am now 
>>> just anxious about the outcome.  There is enough violence and discord in 
>>> the world and whatever the result if it’s for in my opinion to stay in, 
>>> then I hope it brings the country together as I believe the death of a 
>>> Member of Parliament which happened last week on the Streets of Britain was 
>>> politically motivated as this person said when he appeared in Court to give 
>>> his name, and I quote: ‘death to traitors freedom to Britain’.  That was 
>>> disgusting and I don’t want to live in a world where people can not say how 
>>> they feel and then for a bullet or knife to come their way.  The campaign 
>>> here has been divisive and disgusting and poisoners and many people will 
>>> vote No just to try and get rid of the Government of the day.
>>>  
>>> If there is a No vote, then the country will be messe

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Well, there are many in the French society who would disagree with you but I 
don’t blaim you at all for your position if that was your life experience.  
Wow, I’m not sure what to say about your healthcare comments other than I’m 
glad I can buy what I need and nobody says no.  Sounds like a ringing rebuke of 
socialized healthcare to me but that might be the rightwinger in me overstating 
the case.  Honestly from some of the comments I’ve heard privately lately I’m 
not sure the UK has a very strong ground to stand on when it comes to the 
treatment of it’s blind citizens but hey, does anyone?  Can we claim to be much 
better, I might think so but others will have valid points why not so I don’t 
know.

 

 

 

 

 

From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
<a...@anarchie.org.uk>
Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:12 AM
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

Hello Scott and everyone,

 

Well, the Leave camp has won and I shall now apply for French citizenship. 
France has been good to me over the years. The French health care system treats 
me like a valuable member of society, whereas the British health service 
treated me as worthless and would happily have just let me die of kidney 
failure because I’m blind. I’m alive and well today because 15 years ago, I had 
a liver and kidney transplant here in France, so part of my body is already 
French I suppose.

 

As for Britain liberating itself from the influence of multinational 
corporations – that is certainly not the case. The Tory party is well and truly 
in bed with big business and now they’ll be free to walk all over the low-paid 
workers.

 

Cheers,

 

Anne

 

 

 

On 24 Jun 2016, at 06:22, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net> wrote:

 

Don’t be so quick to buy the official version of that MP being murdered.  It 
was a horrible thing but I’m not convinced it was entirely as sold on the news 
either.  I think in some cases the unhinged are pushd by some with in the power 
structure to do what they do.  There’s real indications of trickery in the mass 
shootings in the US being used to totally subvert our constitution, I suspect  
something similar there.

 

That being said, if the French won’t have you we’d love to.  Granted there’s 
way to much paperwork to get in to our country but if you’re ready for a 5 year 
slog we’d happily take you.:)

What ever country you decide, they will be lucky to have you.  Just don’t sell 
your British citizenship short but do what you must.

 

 

 

From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
<a...@anarchie.org.uk>
Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 12:12 PM
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

I’m desperately hoping for the Remain vote to win. I no longer have a vote in 
Britain as I’ve lived in France for 33 years, but if the Leave side wins, I’ll 
be applying for French citizenship.

 

The MP who was murdered was from my home area and had been headgirl at the 
grammar school I attended after opting out of the special education system. She 
was much younger than me, so I never knew her, but I felt a certain connection 
to her and was horrified by what happened.

 

Cheers,

 

Anne

 

 

 

On 23 Jun 2016, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote:

 

Hi Scott and whoever is interested.

 

I cast my vote earlier today.  using a tactile Braille template.  I am now just 
anxious about the outcome.  There is enough violence and discord in the world 
and whatever the result if it’s for in my opinion to stay in, then I hope it 
brings the country together as I believe the death of a Member of Parliament 
which happened last week on the Streets of Britain was politically motivated as 
this person said when he appeared in Court to give his name, and I quote: 
‘death to traitors freedom to Britain’.  That was disgusting and I don’t want 
to live in a world where people can not say how they feel and then for a bullet 
or knife to come their way.  The campaign here has been divisive and disgusting 
and poisoners and many people will vote No just to try and get rid of the 
Government of the day.

 

If there is a No vote, then the country will be messed up.  I just hope people 
will vote for the right reasons.

 

Sorry to write this but I am a person of strong views and I would have not 
written if I did not see this post from Scott which encouraged me to write.

 

Please delete if no one is interested, but do not flame me as I know how nasty 
some people can be on this list if the mood takes them.

 

Thanks.

 

Kawal.

On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:45, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net> wrote:

 

Totally off topic so if you’re not interested stop here and delet

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Scott and everyone,

Well, the Leave camp has won and I shall now apply for French citizenship. 
France has been good to me over the years. The French health care system treats 
me like a valuable member of society, whereas the British health service 
treated me as worthless and would happily have just let me die of kidney 
failure because I’m blind. I’m alive and well today because 15 years ago, I had 
a liver and kidney transplant here in France, so part of my body is already 
French I suppose.

As for Britain liberating itself from the influence of multinational 
corporations – that is certainly not the case. The Tory party is well and truly 
in bed with big business and now they’ll be free to walk all over the low-paid 
workers.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 24 Jun 2016, at 06:22, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net> wrote:
> 
> Don’t be so quick to buy the official version of that MP being murdered.  It 
> was a horrible thing but I’m not convinced it was entirely as sold on the 
> news either.  I think in some cases the unhinged are pushd by some with in 
> the power structure to do what they do.  There’s real indications of trickery 
> in the mass shootings in the US being used to totally subvert our 
> constitution, I suspect  something similar there.
>  
> That being said, if the French won’t have you we’d love to.  Granted there’s 
> way to much paperwork to get in to our country but if you’re ready for a 5 
> year slog we’d happily take you.:)
> What ever country you decide, they will be lucky to have you.  Just don’t 
> sell your British citizenship short but do what you must.
>  
>  
>  
> From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
> <a...@anarchie.org.uk <mailto:a...@anarchie.org.uk>>
> Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
> Date: Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 12:12 PM
> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well
>  
> I’m desperately hoping for the Remain vote to win. I no longer have a vote in 
> Britain as I’ve lived in France for 33 years, but if the Leave side wins, 
> I’ll be applying for French citizenship.
>  
> The MP who was murdered was from my home area and had been headgirl at the 
> grammar school I attended after opting out of the special education system. 
> She was much younger than me, so I never knew her, but I felt a certain 
> connection to her and was horrified by what happened.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Anne
>  
>  
>  
>> On 23 Jun 2016, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com 
>> <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> Hi Scott and whoever is interested.
>>  
>> I cast my vote earlier today.  using a tactile Braille template.  I am now 
>> just anxious about the outcome.  There is enough violence and discord in the 
>> world and whatever the result if it’s for in my opinion to stay in, then I 
>> hope it brings the country together as I believe the death of a Member of 
>> Parliament which happened last week on the Streets of Britain was 
>> politically motivated as this person said when he appeared in Court to give 
>> his name, and I quote: ‘death to traitors freedom to Britain’.  That was 
>> disgusting and I don’t want to live in a world where people can not say how 
>> they feel and then for a bullet or knife to come their way.  The campaign 
>> here has been divisive and disgusting and poisoners and many people will 
>> vote No just to try and get rid of the Government of the day.
>>  
>> If there is a No vote, then the country will be messed up.  I just hope 
>> people will vote for the right reasons.
>>  
>> Sorry to write this but I am a person of strong views and I would have not 
>> written if I did not see this post from Scott which encouraged me to write.
>>  
>> Please delete if no one is interested, but do not flame me as I know how 
>> nasty some people can be on this list if the mood takes them.
>>  
>> Thanks.
>>  
>> Kawal.
>>> On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:45, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net 
>>> <mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Totally off topic so if you’re not interested stop here and delete.
>>>  
>>> I just wanted to wish our British friends well in their big decision today. 
>>>  A lot of really unfortunate things have been said by our president and 
>>> other leaders in the US and as a citizen I think they should have just left 
>>> well enough alone and not meddle 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Don’t be so quick to buy the official version of that MP being murdered.  It 
was a horrible thing but I’m not convinced it was entirely as sold on the news 
either.  I think in some cases the unhinged are pushd by some with in the power 
structure to do what they do.  There’s real indications of trickery in the mass 
shootings in the US being used to totally subvert our constitution, I suspect  
something similar there.

 

That being said, if the French won’t have you we’d love to.  Granted there’s 
way to much paperwork to get in to our country but if you’re ready for a 5 year 
slog we’d happily take you.:)

 

What ever country you decide, they will be lucky to have you.  Just don’t sell 
your British citizenship short but do what you must.

 

 

 

From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Anne Robertson 
<a...@anarchie.org.uk>
Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 12:12 PM
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

 

I’m desperately hoping for the Remain vote to win. I no longer have a vote in 
Britain as I’ve lived in France for 33 years, but if the Leave side wins, I’ll 
be applying for French citizenship.

 

The MP who was murdered was from my home area and had been headgirl at the 
grammar school I attended after opting out of the special education system. She 
was much younger than me, so I never knew her, but I felt a certain connection 
to her and was horrified by what happened.

 

Cheers,

 

Anne

 

 

 

On 23 Jun 2016, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote:

 

Hi Scott and whoever is interested.

 

I cast my vote earlier today.  using a tactile Braille template.  I am now just 
anxious about the outcome.  There is enough violence and discord in the world 
and whatever the result if it’s for in my opinion to stay in, then I hope it 
brings the country together as I believe the death of a Member of Parliament 
which happened last week on the Streets of Britain was politically motivated as 
this person said when he appeared in Court to give his name, and I quote: 
‘death to traitors freedom to Britain’.  That was disgusting and I don’t want 
to live in a world where people can not say how they feel and then for a bullet 
or knife to come their way.  The campaign here has been divisive and disgusting 
and poisoners and many people will vote No just to try and get rid of the 
Government of the day.

 

If there is a No vote, then the country will be messed up.  I just hope people 
will vote for the right reasons.

 

Sorry to write this but I am a person of strong views and I would have not 
written if I did not see this post from Scott which encouraged me to write.

 

Please delete if no one is interested, but do not flame me as I know how nasty 
some people can be on this list if the mood takes them.

 

Thanks.

 

Kawal.

On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:45, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net> wrote:

 

Totally off topic so if you’re not interested stop here and delete.

 

I just wanted to wish our British friends well in their big decision today.  A 
lot of really unfortunate things have been said by our president and other 
leaders in the US and as a citizen I think they should have just left well 
enough alone and not meddle in the affairs of your country.  A lot has been 
said about Britain moving to the back of the line and other such hysterics and 
I just want you to know that it’s BS and don’t be pressured by the suits in 
this country who don’t have the support of the people anyway.  Even though our 
two countries had a rocky start and there was that little matter of a tea party 
and some revolutionary acts here and their.:) it’s totally clear to me and 
everyone here that we have been, we presently are and hopefully always will be 
the closest of friends now.  I’m personally able to claim more than half of my 
ancestry as British and other than my own country I hold yours in highest 
regard.  Do what’s in your heart to do, don’t let the bullies in Washington 
here or number ten Downing or Brussels make the decision for you. Know that on 
the ground, if you decide to leave, 8 out of 10 Americans support you whole 
heartedly and if you decide to stay then we back you there as well.  It makes 
no difference to me or anyone who really counts (the man or woman on the 
street) what you do, we support you, we love you and we know you’ll do what’s 
right for Britain.  We’ll still come and spend our money in your country, buy 
your great products and enjoy your fantastic culture and people no matter what 
you do so don’t let anyone scare you in to making a decision based on rhetoric. 
 Just don’t screw up my ability to buy your fantastic single malts.:)  (I’m 
kidding, do what you need to do or don’t depending on what you and you alone 
feel)

 

Good luck and no matter how it slices I and we wish you nothing but the best.

 

Scott

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Scott Granados]

Well I’ve been riveted watching this all day, I’m going on 24 hours here, it’s 
also a welcome distraction to some really really bad stuff happening on my 
family level right now so forgive me if I use your country’s politics as a 
distraction.:)  My grandmother oddly enough who is the connection to Britain 
for me passed after 96 years on this rock and it’s all closing in on me now 
that I am only one of 3 left in our family and the other 2 are on the shorter 
end of their lives than longer so I’m feeling a bit freaked out and my numbers 
are dwindling down to 0 so if I get in the weeds you get it.
To give you an idea why I feel such a connection with your country my 
family on my mother’s side came to this country fairly recently.  My grand 
mother and grand father came over to this country on boats I believe before 
world war 2 and settled on the east coast as well as Detroit.  My great Grand 
father, mother’s grand father actually worked on your crown jewels.  I have 
jewelers drawings hand made by him used to create some of the items in your 
tower of London today.  I’ve frequently thought about giving them to one of 
your museums if you’d have them but I have no idea their value or if they 
represent any thing special to the British people or even what or who should 
have them.  It’s this man’s daughter, my grand mother who passed this morning.  
She taught me so much about your part of the world from your money to telling 
me stories about my cousins who I don’t know but sell fruit in fruit stands 
somewhere in London or another husband and wife relation of ours who I met once 
years ago and don’t know exactly how they fit but they own a sweater company in 
Scotland.  I remember these people coming to visit us and my Grand Father who 
is from Whales loved taking them to sites around the north east US where we 
americans beat back the British during the Revolution.:)  He loved giving the 
English side of our family a real ribbing about the revolution when they would 
come to visit. In the same breath though, my grandfather served during World 
War II and I know always talked about the Brits he served proudly with.  
I say all this because I’m not the only one.  So many of us have such 
connections to your island.  So understand when you say all in together and all 
that, I consider very much we folks on both sides of the pond on the same team.
BTW, BBC and ITV just called it in favor of leaving  I’m shocked but 
you’ve definitely made things interesting over here.  Your vaporizing my 
financial holdings as I watch this, thanks guys☺, but I’m in, I wish we could 
shake off our oppressive federal government like you all just did the EU.  The 
rebel in me feels a real connection to your side right now.  Not for racial 
reasons, not for fear of any group but for self determination, self rule, 
beating back the huge corporate and global interests that do not have your 
country’s best interest at heart.  I know the economic arguments made against 
you leaving and I say bunk.  You’re a strong country, you do not need the 
approval of brussels to get through your day.  The UK alone is a massive 
economy, thankfully you never wrapped your self in the Euro so your pound will 
carry on.  I will buy many of your pounds when they tank over the next few days 
because the fears are irrational and I will do well as will you all doubling 
down on yourselves.
So folks in Florida or Texas, if you wish to break away from the union 
let me know, I’ll move down and join you.:)  I feel like blasting dixie and 
blasting a few hundred rounds in the air in celebration of someone, finally, 
beating back the powers of globalization and centralization of regulation with 
out representation.  In stead so I don’t get labeled a racist or arrested for 
making to much noise or being armed in the US I will hoist a cold one in your 
country’s honor.


To my Grand Mother Jean and to the fine people of Britain, stay or leave, way 
to go!  Nicely done and all that on all counts. I drink a Sam Adams beer from 
the Boston Brewing company in your honor.  The irony is not lost on me nor is 
it lost o nme that I’m siding with the tories.:) 


And the associated press just called it and someone is pounding on Borris 
Johnson’s door trying to wake him up.  Great stuff!

CNBC just called it in favor of leave also.

Wow, I’m shocked!

On 6/23/16, 6:11 PM, "Sabahattin Gucukoglu"  wrote:

Mmm, your president does seem to have quite a fascination with teats, doesn’t 
he? :)

Regardless, I imagine his comments did more to inflame the Brexiters than to 
encourage the Bremainers.  But, as it happens, I too hope to remain.  The worst 
part about it is that it’s based more or less purely on pragmatism rather than 
principle: the far-right government now in power will only use Brexit to lurch 
even further to the right, without our delightful, if meddlesome, 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Mmm, your president does seem to have quite a fascination with teats, doesn’t 
he? :)

Regardless, I imagine his comments did more to inflame the Brexiters than to 
encourage the Bremainers.  But, as it happens, I too hope to remain.  The worst 
part about it is that it’s based more or less purely on pragmatism rather than 
principle: the far-right government now in power will only use Brexit to lurch 
even further to the right, without our delightful, if meddlesome, friends in 
Brussels to prevent them by (undemocratically, it’s true) arriving at sensible 
and socially just policy decisions on the merits.  The hypothetical independent 
state of Britain, in a climate of establishment neoliberalism and 
first-past-the-post voting, seems distantly unlikely.  And as a believer in 
more EU unification in any event (Turkish parents), I can’t say I feel too bad 
about that.  Better together, and all that jazz. :)

Still, I do wonder what that hypothetical Britain, under the rule of a 
democratically elected liberal government, would look like.  It’d be cosy, but 
would it make me happy?  Initially, probably.  Maybe we could make it work at 
the negotiating tables where decisions are made.  But I’d feel bad for the 
other EU member states, and the project.  We’d be turning away everything it, 
and all of the men, women and children in its member states, represent.  My 
individualistic side says it makes no difference as long as I’m living in the 
exact same country; my squidgy insides say otherwise.  No, the EU isn’t a 
utopia, but by remaining, at least we can fix its faults, which is something a 
lot of Brexiters seem completely reluctant to take any interest in doing.  And 
maybe we can one day look forward to a truly united Europe.

So maybe it is about principle, after all. :)

Well, we shan’t have long to find out, at any rate.  About eight hours, in fact.

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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I really don’t blame you Anne and I hope the remain win to put those who lied 
in this campaign in their places as they deserve to lose.
> On 23 Jun 2016, at 17:12, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> I’m desperately hoping for the Remain vote to win. I no longer have a vote in 
> Britain as I’ve lived in France for 33 years, but if the Leave side wins, 
> I’ll be applying for French citizenship.
> 
> The MP who was murdered was from my home area and had been headgirl at the 
> grammar school I attended after opting out of the special education system. 
> She was much younger than me, so I never knew her, but I felt a certain 
> connection to her and was horrified by what happened.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
>> On 23 Jun 2016, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott and whoever is interested.
>> 
>> I cast my vote earlier today.  using a tactile Braille template.  I am now 
>> just anxious about the outcome.  There is enough violence and discord in the 
>> world and whatever the result if it’s for in my opinion to stay in, then I 
>> hope it brings the country together as I believe the death of a Member of 
>> Parliament which happened last week on the Streets of Britain was 
>> politically motivated as this person said when he appeared in Court to give 
>> his name, and I quote: ‘death to traitors freedom to Britain’.  That was 
>> disgusting and I don’t want to live in a world where people can not say how 
>> they feel and then for a bullet or knife to come their way.  The campaign 
>> here has been divisive and disgusting and poisoners and many people will 
>> vote No just to try and get rid of the Government of the day.
>> 
>> If there is a No vote, then the country will be messed up.  I just hope 
>> people will vote for the right reasons.
>> 
>> Sorry to write this but I am a person of strong views and I would have not 
>> written if I did not see this post from Scott which encouraged me to write.
>> 
>> Please delete if no one is interested, but do not flame me as I know how 
>> nasty some people can be on this list if the mood takes them.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:45, Scott Granados >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Totally off topic so if you’re not interested stop here and delete.
>>>  
>>> I just wanted to wish our British friends well in their big decision today. 
>>>  A lot of really unfortunate things have been said by our president and 
>>> other leaders in the US and as a citizen I think they should have just left 
>>> well enough alone and not meddle in the affairs of your country.  A lot has 
>>> been said about Britain moving to the back of the line and other such 
>>> hysterics and I just want you to know that it’s BS and don’t be pressured 
>>> by the suits in this country who don’t have the support of the people 
>>> anyway.  Even though our two countries had a rocky start and there was that 
>>> little matter of a tea party and some revolutionary acts here and their.:) 
>>> it’s totally clear to me and everyone here that we have been, we presently 
>>> are and hopefully always will be the closest of friends now.  I’m 
>>> personally able to claim more than half of my ancestry as British and other 
>>> than my own country I hold yours in highest regard.  Do what’s in your 
>>> heart to do, don’t let the bullies in Washington here or number ten Downing 
>>> or Brussels make the decision for you. Know that on the ground, if you 
>>> decide to leave, 8 out of 10 Americans support you whole heartedly and if 
>>> you decide to stay then we back you there as well.  It makes no difference 
>>> to me or anyone who really counts (the man or woman on the street) what you 
>>> do, we support you, we love you and we know you’ll do what’s right for 
>>> Britain.  We’ll still come and spend our money in your country, buy your 
>>> great products and enjoy your fantastic culture and people no matter what 
>>> you do so don’t let anyone scare you in to making a decision based on 
>>> rhetoric.  Just don’t screw up my ability to buy your fantastic single 
>>> malts.:)  (I’m kidding, do what you need to do or don’t depending on what 
>>> you and you alone feel)
>>>  
>>> Good luck and no matter how it slices I and we wish you nothing but the 
>>> best.
>>>  
>>> Scott
>>>  
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> 

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Anne Robertson]

I’m desperately hoping for the Remain vote to win. I no longer have a vote in 
Britain as I’ve lived in France for 33 years, but if the Leave side wins, I’ll 
be applying for French citizenship.

The MP who was murdered was from my home area and had been headgirl at the 
grammar school I attended after opting out of the special education system. She 
was much younger than me, so I never knew her, but I felt a certain connection 
to her and was horrified by what happened.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 23 Jun 2016, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott and whoever is interested.
> 
> I cast my vote earlier today.  using a tactile Braille template.  I am now 
> just anxious about the outcome.  There is enough violence and discord in the 
> world and whatever the result if it’s for in my opinion to stay in, then I 
> hope it brings the country together as I believe the death of a Member of 
> Parliament which happened last week on the Streets of Britain was politically 
> motivated as this person said when he appeared in Court to give his name, and 
> I quote: ‘death to traitors freedom to Britain’.  That was disgusting and I 
> don’t want to live in a world where people can not say how they feel and then 
> for a bullet or knife to come their way.  The campaign here has been divisive 
> and disgusting and poisoners and many people will vote No just to try and get 
> rid of the Government of the day.
> 
> If there is a No vote, then the country will be messed up.  I just hope 
> people will vote for the right reasons.
> 
> Sorry to write this but I am a person of strong views and I would have not 
> written if I did not see this post from Scott which encouraged me to write.
> 
> Please delete if no one is interested, but do not flame me as I know how 
> nasty some people can be on this list if the mood takes them.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:45, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> Totally off topic so if you’re not interested stop here and delete.
>>  
>> I just wanted to wish our British friends well in their big decision today.  
>> A lot of really unfortunate things have been said by our president and other 
>> leaders in the US and as a citizen I think they should have just left well 
>> enough alone and not meddle in the affairs of your country.  A lot has been 
>> said about Britain moving to the back of the line and other such hysterics 
>> and I just want you to know that it’s BS and don’t be pressured by the suits 
>> in this country who don’t have the support of the people anyway.  Even 
>> though our two countries had a rocky start and there was that little matter 
>> of a tea party and some revolutionary acts here and their.:) it’s totally 
>> clear to me and everyone here that we have been, we presently are and 
>> hopefully always will be the closest of friends now.  I’m personally able to 
>> claim more than half of my ancestry as British and other than my own country 
>> I hold yours in highest regard.  Do what’s in your heart to do, don’t let 
>> the bullies in Washington here or number ten Downing or Brussels make the 
>> decision for you. Know that on the ground, if you decide to leave, 8 out of 
>> 10 Americans support you whole heartedly and if you decide to stay then we 
>> back you there as well.  It makes no difference to me or anyone who really 
>> counts (the man or woman on the street) what you do, we support you, we love 
>> you and we know you’ll do what’s right for Britain.  We’ll still come and 
>> spend our money in your country, buy your great products and enjoy your 
>> fantastic culture and people no matter what you do so don’t let anyone scare 
>> you in to making a decision based on rhetoric.  Just don’t screw up my 
>> ability to buy your fantastic single malts.:)  (I’m kidding, do what you 
>> need to do or don’t depending on what you and you alone feel)
>>  
>> Good luck and no matter how it slices I and we wish you nothing but the best.
>>  
>> Scott
>>  
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
>>  
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hi Scott and whoever is interested.

I cast my vote earlier today.  using a tactile Braille template.  I am now just 
anxious about the outcome.  There is enough violence and discord in the world 
and whatever the result if it’s for in my opinion to stay in, then I hope it 
brings the country together as I believe the death of a Member of Parliament 
which happened last week on the Streets of Britain was politically motivated as 
this person said when he appeared in Court to give his name, and I quote: 
‘death to traitors freedom to Britain’.  That was disgusting and I don’t want 
to live in a world where people can not say how they feel and then for a bullet 
or knife to come their way.  The campaign here has been divisive and disgusting 
and poisoners and many people will vote No just to try and get rid of the 
Government of the day.

If there is a No vote, then the country will be messed up.  I just hope people 
will vote for the right reasons.

Sorry to write this but I am a person of strong views and I would have not 
written if I did not see this post from Scott which encouraged me to write.

Please delete if no one is interested, but do not flame me as I know how nasty 
some people can be on this list if the mood takes them.

Thanks.

Kawal.
> On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:45, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Totally off topic so if you’re not interested stop here and delete.
>  
> I just wanted to wish our British friends well in their big decision today.  
> A lot of really unfortunate things have been said by our president and other 
> leaders in the US and as a citizen I think they should have just left well 
> enough alone and not meddle in the affairs of your country.  A lot has been 
> said about Britain moving to the back of the line and other such hysterics 
> and I just want you to know that it’s BS and don’t be pressured by the suits 
> in this country who don’t have the support of the people anyway.  Even though 
> our two countries had a rocky start and there was that little matter of a tea 
> party and some revolutionary acts here and their.:) it’s totally clear to me 
> and everyone here that we have been, we presently are and hopefully always 
> will be the closest of friends now.  I’m personally able to claim more than 
> half of my ancestry as British and other than my own country I hold yours in 
> highest regard.  Do what’s in your heart to do, don’t let the bullies in 
> Washington here or number ten Downing or Brussels make the decision for you. 
> Know that on the ground, if you decide to leave, 8 out of 10 Americans 
> support you whole heartedly and if you decide to stay then we back you there 
> as well.  It makes no difference to me or anyone who really counts (the man 
> or woman on the street) what you do, we support you, we love you and we know 
> you’ll do what’s right for Britain.  We’ll still come and spend our money in 
> your country, buy your great products and enjoy your fantastic culture and 
> people no matter what you do so don’t let anyone scare you in to making a 
> decision based on rhetoric.  Just don’t screw up my ability to buy your 
> fantastic single malts.:)  (I’m kidding, do what you need to do or don’t 
> depending on what you and you alone feel)
>  
> Good luck and no matter how it slices I and we wish you nothing but the best.
>  
> Scott
>  
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
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Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[E.T.]

   In years past there was noise about a New World Order. Now its 
global economy and a secret enclave that controls it all. We are fast 
losing individual identity.


   Lets go further back into the past and explore our ancestry. We all 
have common roots if you want to go back 200,000 years.


   Meantime, yes, we need our leaders to take care of their own right 
here at home.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/23/2016 7:45 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Totally off topic so if you’re not interested stop here and delete.



I just wanted to wish our British friends well in their big decision
today.  A lot of really unfortunate things have been said by our
president and other leaders in the US and as a citizen I think they
should have just left well enough alone and not meddle in the affairs of
your country.  A lot has been said about Britain moving to the back of
the line and other such hysterics and I just want you to know that it’s
BS and don’t be pressured by the suits in this country who don’t have
the support of the people anyway.  Even though our two countries had a
rocky start and there was that little matter of a tea party and some
revolutionary acts here and their.:) it’s totally clear to me and
everyone here that we have been, we presently are and hopefully always
will be the closest of friends now.  I’m personally able to claim more
than half of my ancestry as British and other than my own country I hold
yours in highest regard.  Do what’s in your heart to do, don’t let the
bullies in Washington here or number ten Downing or Brussels make the
decision for you. Know that on the ground, if you decide to leave, 8 out
of 10 Americans support you whole heartedly and if you decide to stay
then we back you there as well.  It makes no difference to me or anyone
who really counts (the man or woman on the street) what you do, we
support you, we love you and we know you’ll do what’s right for
Britain.  We’ll still come and spend our money in your country, buy your
great products and enjoy your fantastic culture and people no matter
what you do so don’t let anyone scare you in to making a decision based
on rhetoric.  Just don’t screw up my ability to buy your fantastic
single malts.:)  (I’m kidding, do what you need to do or don’t depending
on what you and you alone feel)



Good luck and no matter how it slices I and we wish you nothing but the
best.



Scott



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<>

Re: Brexit, wishing our friends across the pond well

[Donna Goodin]

I just want to second this.  Good luck, guys!
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Totally off topic so if you’re not interested stop here and delete.
>  
> I just wanted to wish our British friends well in their big decision today.  
> A lot of really unfortunate things have been said by our president and other 
> leaders in the US and as a citizen I think they should have just left well 
> enough alone and not meddle in the affairs of your country.  A lot has been 
> said about Britain moving to the back of the line and other such hysterics 
> and I just want you to know that it’s BS and don’t be pressured by the suits 
> in this country who don’t have the support of the people anyway.  Even though 
> our two countries had a rocky start and there was that little matter of a tea 
> party and some revolutionary acts here and their.:) it’s totally clear to me 
> and everyone here that we have been, we presently are and hopefully always 
> will be the closest of friends now.  I’m personally able to claim more than 
> half of my ancestry as British and other than my own country I hold yours in 
> highest regard.  Do what’s in your heart to do, don’t let the bullies in 
> Washington here or number ten Downing or Brussels make the decision for you. 
> Know that on the ground, if you decide to leave, 8 out of 10 Americans 
> support you whole heartedly and if you decide to stay then we back you there 
> as well.  It makes no difference to me or anyone who really counts (the man 
> or woman on the street) what you do, we support you, we love you and we know 
> you’ll do what’s right for Britain.  We’ll still come and spend our money in 
> your country, buy your great products and enjoy your fantastic culture and 
> people no matter what you do so don’t let anyone scare you in to making a 
> decision based on rhetoric.  Just don’t screw up my ability to buy your 
> fantastic single malts.:)  (I’m kidding, do what you need to do or don’t 
> depending on what you and you alone feel)
>  
> Good luck and no matter how it slices I and we wish you nothing but the best.
>  
> Scott
>  
> 
> -- 
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> 
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