Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Scott Granados]

Well the good news is if you forget you can just attach your disk and wait a 
while and everything will be caught up to the point just before you start your 
upgrade.  YOu’d want to do this anyway.  You can leave it attached and back up 
hourly as well.

I would do the same thing.  Pick up a disk for $100 and problem solved.

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 3:02 PM, christopher hallsworth  
> wrote:
> 
> Thank you. I like the automated backup idea so will look into it. I mean, I 
> am known to forget to backup until it’s necessary such as updating from El 
> Capitan to Sierra.
>> On 21 Sep 2016, at 19:32, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> No excuse needed, great question.
>> 
>> It all depends on what you want to accomplish and the value of your data.  
>> If you just have a few flat files with important data or pictures, things 
>> like that, maybe tax returns or what ever your method works just fine with 
>> the idea if you ever do lose a disk you’ll have to reinstall the OS and all 
>> your software by hand.
>> 
>> If you want something more automated and a little more fire and forget then 
>> maybe Time Machine makes sense.  You can back up on your external disk and 
>> if needed use multiple disks and take one off site if you’re really 
>> concerned about your data and there’s a lot to protect.
>>  If you’ve got real concerns about off site and you need your data 
>> backed up quickly you might want to go with a backup service that downloads 
>> your data and stores in the cloud.
>>  If you have more than one machine to back up then a network attached 
>> storage makes sense.  Say you have 3 computers in your home, instead of a 
>> disk for each you can get one larger network attached drive and backup your 
>> machines there all at the same time, no swapping of disks.
>> 
>> All depends on how much your data is worth by that i mean someone securing 
>> family pics might spend less effort than someone say securing backups of 
>> reversed engineered UFO drawings at Roswell.  (that’s for ET)  The more 
>> valuable the data the more effort you want to expend.
>> 
>> If you’re not concerned about rebuilding by hand your method should do just 
>> fine.  If you want something more automatic go Time Machine.
>> 
>> Hopefully that didn’t confuse the issue m ore but do ask if you have any 
>> further questions.  Backup is an important topic.  Especially in this age of 
>> ransom ware and malware.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Scott
>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 2:25 PM, christopher hallsworth 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all
>>> 
>>> So currently, I just use the copy and paste of all my personal files. So is 
>>> it better to do time machine backups then? Never explored this area so 
>>> please excuse any ignorance. Cheers!
 On 21 Sep 2016, at 18:05, John JD Denning  wrote:
 
 It appears there's been a lot of discussion on this subject. And I'm kind 
 of surprise. Because I was just pointed out backing up the Mac is 
 incredibly simple and straightforward. Go get a USB or thunderbolt hard 
 drive plugged in and use Time Machine. That's the simplest way.
 
 I do to back ups when using super Duper to a thunderbolt raid drive. That 
 is incredibly fast. And I do a time machine back up to a USB three drive.
 
 I love the clones, it's great to just be able to change your start up disk 
 and be right where you were when you did the back up. Everyone should have 
 a back up. It's just the cost of a external drive. Save yourself lots of 
 aggravation and go out and get an external drive. If you ever need it 
 you'll be glad you did
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 21, 2016, at 13:01, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
> No again you’re wrong.  You do not need an airport or time capsule for 
> time machine.  That’s just nonsense.  Any hard disk will work.  You can 
> connect directly via USB, you can connect via network to some drives, you 
> can use a time capsule if you want, you can use an airport router with a 
> hard drive attached to provide backups to a whole network but these are 
> not requirements.  A single external pluggable hard disk is all you need. 
>  Also, it totally restores on a blank disk, no reinstallation of programs 
> or operating system, it’s just a full backup which you can fully restore 
> from.  None of the rest matters a hill of beans.
> 
>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Singing Sparrow  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back 
>> up and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and 
>> the like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back 
>> up would be more of the slutation then time machine.
>> 
>> On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Thanks Joseph, I totally agree.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joseph Hudson 
  To: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 2:38 PM
  Subject: Fwd: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
before updating to Sierra


  Mark, I believe the below message, for mac visionaries is going to Bring this 
thread out-of-control. So I would like to kindly ask you if you can close it 
please?



Begin forwarded message:


From: Scott Granados 

Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
computer before updating to Sierra

Date: September 21, 2016 at 12:38:01 PM CDT

To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com



macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your 



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Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Either way, it's essentially doing the same thing, as far as I know.  Only 
diffedrence is, it's basically doing the dirtcy work for you automatically. 
I could be wrong on this, but that's at least how I understand it.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "christopher hallsworth" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
before updating to Sierra



Hi all

So currently, I just use the copy and paste of all my personal files. So is 
it better to do time machine backups then? Never explored this area so 
please excuse any ignorance. Cheers!

On 21 Sep 2016, at 18:05, John JD Denning  wrote:

It appears there's been a lot of discussion on this subject. And I'm kind 
of surprise. Because I was just pointed out backing up the Mac is 
incredibly simple and straightforward. Go get a USB or thunderbolt hard 
drive plugged in and use Time Machine. That's the simplest way.


I do to back ups when using super Duper to a thunderbolt raid drive. That 
is incredibly fast. And I do a time machine back up to a USB three drive.


I love the clones, it's great to just be able to change your start up disk 
and be right where you were when you did the back up. Everyone should have 
a back up. It's just the cost of a external drive. Save yourself lots of 
aggravation and go out and get an external drive. If you ever need it 
you'll be glad you did


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 13:01, Scott Granados  wrote:

No again you’re wrong.  You do not need an airport or time capsule for 
time machine.  That’s just nonsense.  Any hard disk will work.  You can 
connect directly via USB, you can connect via network to some drives, you 
can use a time capsule if you want, you can use an airport router with a 
hard drive attached to provide backups to a whole network but these are 
not requirements.  A single external pluggable hard disk is all you need. 
Also, it totally restores on a blank disk, no reinstallation of programs 
or operating system, it’s just a full backup which you can fully restore 
from.  None of the rest matters a hill of beans.


On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Singing Sparrow  
wrote:


I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back 
up and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and 
the like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back 
up would be more of the slutation then time machine.


On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self 
talk.


Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot 
off the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup 
solutions aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a 
database or in an on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s 
not a full backup.  If you restore from time machine you’ll get back to 
exactly where you were when that snapshot was taken.  IF I used a 
terabyte tape library would that make my backup less valid because you 
don’t boot from tape?  I don’t get it.


Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
school data just fine.



On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your 
drive.  It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, 
files, and settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's 
not, at the end of the day, a true OS backup regardless what anyone 
says.  For instance, show me how to boot from a time machine backup. 
You can't.  Point I hope taken.  At least, if you *can!* literally 
boot from a  drive soly created by TM, then I'm totally unaware of how 
to do so.


This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to 
buy and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire 
on you, but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those 
features by no means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a 
pro musician as a lot of you know.


So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million 
dollar question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At 
first, usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This 
being said, I don't use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll 
instead fire up Super Dooper, take an exact bootable, mind you, 
snapshot image of my drive's current state, then, I'll update, and if 
something goes disastrous, it's no big deal.  I just roll back from 
that image I made, and within an hour or two, I'm downgraded and right 
back in perfect working order as if I'd never 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[christopher hallsworth]

Thank you. I like the automated backup idea so will look into it. I mean, I am 
known to forget to backup until it’s necessary such as updating from El Capitan 
to Sierra.
> On 21 Sep 2016, at 19:32, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> No excuse needed, great question.
> 
> It all depends on what you want to accomplish and the value of your data.  If 
> you just have a few flat files with important data or pictures, things like 
> that, maybe tax returns or what ever your method works just fine with the 
> idea if you ever do lose a disk you’ll have to reinstall the OS and all your 
> software by hand.
> 
> If you want something more automated and a little more fire and forget then 
> maybe Time Machine makes sense.  You can back up on your external disk and if 
> needed use multiple disks and take one off site if you’re really concerned 
> about your data and there’s a lot to protect.
>   If you’ve got real concerns about off site and you need your data 
> backed up quickly you might want to go with a backup service that downloads 
> your data and stores in the cloud.
>   If you have more than one machine to back up then a network attached 
> storage makes sense.  Say you have 3 computers in your home, instead of a 
> disk for each you can get one larger network attached drive and backup your 
> machines there all at the same time, no swapping of disks.
> 
> All depends on how much your data is worth by that i mean someone securing 
> family pics might spend less effort than someone say securing backups of 
> reversed engineered UFO drawings at Roswell.  (that’s for ET)  The more 
> valuable the data the more effort you want to expend.
> 
> If you’re not concerned about rebuilding by hand your method should do just 
> fine.  If you want something more automatic go Time Machine.
> 
> Hopefully that didn’t confuse the issue m ore but do ask if you have any 
> further questions.  Backup is an important topic.  Especially in this age of 
> ransom ware and malware.
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 
>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 2:25 PM, christopher hallsworth 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> So currently, I just use the copy and paste of all my personal files. So is 
>> it better to do time machine backups then? Never explored this area so 
>> please excuse any ignorance. Cheers!
>>> On 21 Sep 2016, at 18:05, John JD Denning  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It appears there's been a lot of discussion on this subject. And I'm kind 
>>> of surprise. Because I was just pointed out backing up the Mac is 
>>> incredibly simple and straightforward. Go get a USB or thunderbolt hard 
>>> drive plugged in and use Time Machine. That's the simplest way.
>>> 
>>> I do to back ups when using super Duper to a thunderbolt raid drive. That 
>>> is incredibly fast. And I do a time machine back up to a USB three drive.
>>> 
>>> I love the clones, it's great to just be able to change your start up disk 
>>> and be right where you were when you did the back up. Everyone should have 
>>> a back up. It's just the cost of a external drive. Save yourself lots of 
>>> aggravation and go out and get an external drive. If you ever need it 
>>> you'll be glad you did
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 13:01, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
 No again you’re wrong.  You do not need an airport or time capsule for 
 time machine.  That’s just nonsense.  Any hard disk will work.  You can 
 connect directly via USB, you can connect via network to some drives, you 
 can use a time capsule if you want, you can use an airport router with a 
 hard drive attached to provide backups to a whole network but these are 
 not requirements.  A single external pluggable hard disk is all you need.  
 Also, it totally restores on a blank disk, no reinstallation of programs 
 or operating system, it’s just a full backup which you can fully restore 
 from.  None of the rest matters a hill of beans.
 
> On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Singing Sparrow  
> wrote:
> 
> I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back 
> up and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and 
> the like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back 
> up would be more of the slutation then time machine.
> 
> On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self 
>> talk.
>> 
>> Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot 
>> off the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup 
>> solutions aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a 
>> database or in an on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s 
>> not a full backup.  If you restore from time machine you’ll get back to 
>> exactly 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[E.T.]

Chris,
   Sugarcode? What is that, a new code in Sierra? (smiles)

   You are right, there is too much drama on this group. But you are 
the one most dramatic of all the members. You best go down to the local 
gym and work off that excess energy of yours.


   And again you are right, this is not the right place for those 
personal back and forths so again take it to the local gym and piut on 
some boxing gloves.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/21/2016 10:51 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

OK, sir, I won't give your real name publicly here on list, as you've
asked me kindly not to do so, and I'll respect that wish.  You know I
know who you are though, and that we just were talking on Twitter.

You asked me over Twitter DM what I think.  OK. Do you want the truth,
or do you want me to sugarcode it?

If sugarcode please, then, I'd say, I have simply no comments.  But if
you want the bold frank truth, then here it is, like it or not:

I think both you and Scott need to take the drama off list and sease
immediately from the name calling publicly.  It's not benefiting the
group, and, regardless sir, if I agree with your assessment of Scott's
comments or not, that isn't rellavent.  The point is, take it off list.
This isn't publicly where these type comments belong.  Though I
appreciate you sticking up for me, don't misinterpret what I'm saying, I
don't think this list publicly is where these type debates need to occur.

Scott's e-mail is:

sc...@qualityip.net 

If you have something personal like this to say to Scott, any of you, do
it off list.  I'm not a mod, but I think both Mark, and Cara would
concur.  I'm not trying to play mod, though it may sound that way.  I'm
simply just sayin, and after all, you did! ask my opinion, did you not?

Chris.

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<>

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Scott Granados]

No excuse needed, great question.

It all depends on what you want to accomplish and the value of your data.  If 
you just have a few flat files with important data or pictures, things like 
that, maybe tax returns or what ever your method works just fine with the idea 
if you ever do lose a disk you’ll have to reinstall the OS and all your 
software by hand.

If you want something more automated and a little more fire and forget then 
maybe Time Machine makes sense.  You can back up on your external disk and if 
needed use multiple disks and take one off site if you’re really concerned 
about your data and there’s a lot to protect.
If you’ve got real concerns about off site and you need your data 
backed up quickly you might want to go with a backup service that downloads 
your data and stores in the cloud.
If you have more than one machine to back up then a network attached 
storage makes sense.  Say you have 3 computers in your home, instead of a disk 
for each you can get one larger network attached drive and backup your machines 
there all at the same time, no swapping of disks.

All depends on how much your data is worth by that i mean someone securing 
family pics might spend less effort than someone say securing backups of 
reversed engineered UFO drawings at Roswell.  (that’s for ET)  The more 
valuable the data the more effort you want to expend.

If you’re not concerned about rebuilding by hand your method should do just 
fine.  If you want something more automatic go Time Machine.

Hopefully that didn’t confuse the issue m ore but do ask if you have any 
further questions.  Backup is an important topic.  Especially in this age of 
ransom ware and malware.

Thanks
Scott

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 2:25 PM, christopher hallsworth  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> So currently, I just use the copy and paste of all my personal files. So is 
> it better to do time machine backups then? Never explored this area so please 
> excuse any ignorance. Cheers!
>> On 21 Sep 2016, at 18:05, John JD Denning  wrote:
>> 
>> It appears there's been a lot of discussion on this subject. And I'm kind of 
>> surprise. Because I was just pointed out backing up the Mac is incredibly 
>> simple and straightforward. Go get a USB or thunderbolt hard drive plugged 
>> in and use Time Machine. That's the simplest way.
>> 
>> I do to back ups when using super Duper to a thunderbolt raid drive. That is 
>> incredibly fast. And I do a time machine back up to a USB three drive.
>> 
>> I love the clones, it's great to just be able to change your start up disk 
>> and be right where you were when you did the back up. Everyone should have a 
>> back up. It's just the cost of a external drive. Save yourself lots of 
>> aggravation and go out and get an external drive. If you ever need it you'll 
>> be glad you did
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 13:01, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>>> No again you’re wrong.  You do not need an airport or time capsule for time 
>>> machine.  That’s just nonsense.  Any hard disk will work.  You can connect 
>>> directly via USB, you can connect via network to some drives, you can use a 
>>> time capsule if you want, you can use an airport router with a hard drive 
>>> attached to provide backups to a whole network but these are not 
>>> requirements.  A single external pluggable hard disk is all you need.  
>>> Also, it totally restores on a blank disk, no reinstallation of programs or 
>>> operating system, it’s just a full backup which you can fully restore from. 
>>>  None of the rest matters a hill of beans.
>>> 
 On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Singing Sparrow  
 wrote:
 
 I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back up 
 and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and the 
 like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back up 
 would be more of the slutation then time machine.
 
 On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self 
> talk.
> 
> Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot 
> off the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup 
> solutions aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a 
> database or in an on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s 
> not a full backup.  If you restore from time machine you’ll get back to 
> exactly where you were when that snapshot was taken.  IF I used a 
> terabyte tape library would that make my backup less valid because you 
> don’t boot from tape?  I don’t get it. 
> 
> Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
> school data just fine.
> 
> 
>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[christopher hallsworth]

Hi all

So currently, I just use the copy and paste of all my personal files. So is it 
better to do time machine backups then? Never explored this area so please 
excuse any ignorance. Cheers!
> On 21 Sep 2016, at 18:05, John JD Denning  wrote:
> 
> It appears there's been a lot of discussion on this subject. And I'm kind of 
> surprise. Because I was just pointed out backing up the Mac is incredibly 
> simple and straightforward. Go get a USB or thunderbolt hard drive plugged in 
> and use Time Machine. That's the simplest way.
> 
> I do to back ups when using super Duper to a thunderbolt raid drive. That is 
> incredibly fast. And I do a time machine back up to a USB three drive.
> 
> I love the clones, it's great to just be able to change your start up disk 
> and be right where you were when you did the back up. Everyone should have a 
> back up. It's just the cost of a external drive. Save yourself lots of 
> aggravation and go out and get an external drive. If you ever need it you'll 
> be glad you did
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 21, 2016, at 13:01, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
>> No again you’re wrong.  You do not need an airport or time capsule for time 
>> machine.  That’s just nonsense.  Any hard disk will work.  You can connect 
>> directly via USB, you can connect via network to some drives, you can use a 
>> time capsule if you want, you can use an airport router with a hard drive 
>> attached to provide backups to a whole network but these are not 
>> requirements.  A single external pluggable hard disk is all you need.  Also, 
>> it totally restores on a blank disk, no reinstallation of programs or 
>> operating system, it’s just a full backup which you can fully restore from.  
>> None of the rest matters a hill of beans.
>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Singing Sparrow  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back up 
>>> and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and the 
>>> like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back up 
>>> would be more of the slutation then time machine.
>>> 
>>> On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self talk.
 
 Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot 
 off the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup 
 solutions aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a 
 database or in an on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s not 
 a full backup.  If you restore from time machine you’ll get back to 
 exactly where you were when that snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte 
 tape library would that make my backup less valid because you don’t boot 
 from tape?  I don’t get it. 
 
 Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
 school data just fine.
 
 
> On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>  wrote:
> 
> The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  
> It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and 
> settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end 
> of the day, a true OS backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, 
> show me how to boot from a time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope 
> taken.  At least, if you *can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created 
> by TM, then I'm totally unaware of how to do so.
>  
> This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to 
> buy and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on 
> you, but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those 
> features by no means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro 
> musician as a lot of you know.
>  
> So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million 
> dollar question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At 
> first, usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being 
> said, I don't use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire 
> up Super Dooper, take an exact bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my 
> drive's current state, then, I'll update, and if something goes 
> disastrous, it's no big deal.  I just roll back from that image I made, 
> and within an hour or two, I'm downgraded and right back in perfect 
> working order as if I'd never updated to start with.
>  
> So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time 
> Machine, but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full 
> backup sollution.  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you 
> catch my jidst.  

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

OK, sir, I won't give your real name publicly here on list, as you've asked me 
kindly not to do so, and I'll respect that wish.  You know I know who you are 
though, and that we just were talking on Twitter.

You asked me over Twitter DM what I think.  OK. Do you want the truth, or do 
you want me to sugarcode it?

If sugarcode please, then, I'd say, I have simply no comments.  But if you want 
the bold frank truth, then here it is, like it or not:

I think both you and Scott need to take the drama off list and sease 
immediately from the name calling publicly.  It's not benefiting the group, 
and, regardless sir, if I agree with your assessment of Scott's comments or 
not, that isn't rellavent.  The point is, take it off list.  This isn't 
publicly where these type comments belong.  Though I appreciate you sticking up 
for me, don't misinterpret what I'm saying, I don't think this list publicly is 
where these type debates need to occur.

Scott's e-mail is:

sc...@qualityip.net

If you have something personal like this to say to Scott, any of you, do it off 
list.  I'm not a mod, but I think both Mark, and Cara would concur.  I'm not 
trying to play mod, though it may sound that way.  I'm simply just sayin, and 
after all, you did! ask my opinion, did you not?

Chris.

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Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Scott Granados]

I am a network engineer of 25 years.  I started using Apple products in 1982 
and have continuously.  I hold patents in the network transmission space and 
have built key parts of the Verizon Wireless networks including the Voice over 
LTE environment as well as key design efforts in network interconnection 
including optimization of the Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) configuration and 
migration of peers from the CRS to MX960 platform.  
I have also been key in the development of high bandwidth video 
conferencing applications used in the financial industry with an all native SIP 
back end capable of rescaling video and audio to any environment from Dial up 
to HD (4K) video.
I have been involved with Premier Retail Network in the development and 
deployment of the largest out of home IP TV network in the world.  You would 
see my handy work in every Walmart, Costco, Sam’s, Stop and Shop, BJs Whole 
sale clubs, Dell’s lemonade stores, CVS and more for the purposes of delivering 
real time sensitive video marketing materials and tracking impact on sales.
I have developed transport systems for ESPN, General Dynamics, and the 
Defense Department.  I hold several certifications and have also successfully 
started, run and sold two internet carrier business including one which was 
wrapped in to RCN.  

That a good start or would you like the whole resume pasted?  I have over 25 
years of technical experience over all.  Also qualified in several operating 
systems Including Solaris, Aix, various Linux variants and Mac OS.

Shal I continue?

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
> 
> Ok, scott, where do you have your crendencals, to be able to give advise? I 
> know chris, is certified to be able to give the advise he does give so can 
> you show us the proof you know what you are talking about? mister smarty 
> pants!
> 
> On 9/21/2016 12:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> Chris, nobody cares and you have absolutely 0 room to speak.  The one time I 
>> made the mistake of helping you, you went psycho and besides, I’m not 
>> interested in the moral comments from a rapist.
>> 
>> So pipe down inmate.
>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 1:28 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> And I do not appreciate Scott's comment at all!  I was trying to help for 
>>> God given sake!  Tim is correct in that it's not required to boot to a 
>>> backup.  In that sense, yes, it's a full backup.  I agree, but that wasn't 
>>> my initial point, and I think I made it very clear as such.  I never said 
>>> TM wasn't doable.  I only said it won't make a full bootable backup, which 
>>> I, along with some others, might more prefer.  Don't say I speak crap, or 
>>> whatever word you choose until you get your facts straight of what I 
>>> actually said, not of what I didn't say nor imply.
>>>  
>>> Enough said.  I'm not participating in this thread anymore.  I've stated my 
>>> personal preference, for what it's worth, which apparently is nothing 
>>> valued, so who cares! I'm done with it!  Figure the backup process out 
>>> yourself.
>>> ---
>>> Christopher Gilland
>>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>>> Training Instructor.
>>>  
>>> i...@gillandmarketing.com 
>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
 - Original Message -
 From: Singing Sparrow 
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:37 PM
 Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
 computer before updating to Sierra
 
 I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back up 
 and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and the 
 like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back up 
 would be more of the slutation then time machine.
 
 On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self 
> talk.
> 
> Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot 
> off the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup 
> solutions aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a 
> database or in an on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s 
> not a full backup.  If you restore from time machine you’ll get back to 
> exactly where you were when that snapshot was taken.  IF I used a 
> terabyte tape library would that make my backup less valid because you 
> don’t boot from tape?  I don’t get it. 
> 
> Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
> school data just fine.
> 
> 
>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>> 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Singing Sparrow]

Ok, scott, where do you have your crendencals, to be able to give 
advise? I know chris, is certified to be able to give the advise he does 
give so can you show us the proof you know what you are talking about? 
mister smarty pants!



On 9/21/2016 12:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
Chris, nobody cares and you have absolutely 0 room to speak.  The one 
time I made the mistake of helping you, you went psycho and besides, 
I’m not interested in the moral comments from a rapist.


So pipe down inmate.

On Sep 21, 2016, at 1:28 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
> wrote:


And I do not appreciate Scott's comment at all!  I was trying to help 
for God given sake!  Tim is correct in that it's not required to boot 
to a backup.  In that sense, yes, it's a full backup.  I agree, but 
that wasn't my initial point, and I think I made it very clear as 
such.  I never said TM wasn't doable.  I only said it won't make a 
full bootable backup, which I, along with some others, might more 
prefer.  Don't say I speak crap, or whatever word you choose until 
you get your facts straight of what I actually said, not of what I 
didn't say nor imply.
Enough said.  I'm not participating in this thread anymore.  I've 
stated my personal preference, for what it's worth, which apparently 
is nothing valued, so who cares! I'm done with it!  Figure the backup 
process out yourself.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.
i...@gillandmarketing.com 
Phone: (704) 256-8010.

- Original Message -
*From:*Singing Sparrow 
*To:*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 


*Sent:*Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:37 PM
*Subject:*Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
computer before updating to Sierra


I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true 
back up and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express 
router and the like for time machine to work the way chris stated to 
do a true back up would be more of the slutation then time machine.


On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your 
self talk.


Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to 
boot off the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the 
mass backup solutions aren’t a backup either.  Just because the 
data is stored in a database or in an on-tap file system or time 
machine doesn’t mean it’s not a full backup.  If you restore from 
time machine you’ll get back to exactly where you were when that 
snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape library would that 
make my backup less valid because you don’t boot from tape?  I 
don’t get it.


Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure 
that school data just fine.



On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
> wrote:


The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your 
drive.  It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, 
files, and settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's 
not, at the end of the day, a true OS backup regardless what 
anyone says.  For instance, show me how to boot from a time 
machine backup. You can't.  Point I hope taken.  At least, if you 
*can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created by TM, then I'm 
totally unaware of how to do so.
This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage 
you to buy and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never 
will expire on you, but there are just some features that won't be 
enabled. Those features by no means are door stoppers though.  For 
instance.  I'm a pro musician as a lot of you know.
So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the 
million dollar question, will ProTools work with this OS with no 
problems?  At first, usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try 
anyway.  This being said, I don't use Time Machine for those 
situations.  I'll instead fire up Super Dooper, take an exact 
bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my drive's current state, 
then, I'll update, and if something goes disastrous, it's no big 
deal.  I just roll back from that image I made, and within an hour 
or two, I'm downgraded and right back in perfect working order as 
if I'd never updated to start with.
So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with 
Time Machine, but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's 
a full backup sollution.  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of 
isn't, if you catch my jidst.  If all you want is to back up your 
files, settings, and apps, then OK, whatever, go for it, but if 
you're really wanting to be the most optimally safe as possible, 
then look into a full backup sollution like Super Duper, or Carbon 
Copy Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Scott Granados]

Chris, nobody cares and you have absolutely 0 room to speak.  The one time I 
made the mistake of helping you, you went psycho and besides, I’m not 
interested in the moral comments from a rapist.

So pipe down inmate.

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 1:28 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> And I do not appreciate Scott's comment at all!  I was trying to help for God 
> given sake!  Tim is correct in that it's not required to boot to a backup.  
> In that sense, yes, it's a full backup.  I agree, but that wasn't my initial 
> point, and I think I made it very clear as such.  I never said TM wasn't 
> doable.  I only said it won't make a full bootable backup, which I, along 
> with some others, might more prefer.  Don't say I speak crap, or whatever 
> word you choose until you get your facts straight of what I actually said, 
> not of what I didn't say nor imply.
>  
> Enough said.  I'm not participating in this thread anymore.  I've stated my 
> personal preference, for what it's worth, which apparently is nothing valued, 
> so who cares! I'm done with it!  Figure the backup process out yourself.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>  
> i...@gillandmarketing.com 
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Singing Sparrow 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
>> before updating to Sierra
>> 
>> I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back up 
>> and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and the 
>> like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back up 
>> would be more of the slutation then time machine.
>> 
>> On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self talk.
>>> 
>>> Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot off 
>>> the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup 
>>> solutions aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a 
>>> database or in an on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s not 
>>> a full backup.  If you restore from time machine you’ll get back to exactly 
>>> where you were when that snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape 
>>> library would that make my backup less valid because you don’t boot from 
>>> tape?  I don’t get it. 
>>> 
>>> Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
>>> school data just fine.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 > wrote:
 
 The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  
 It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and 
 settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end of 
 the day, a true OS backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, show 
 me how to boot from a time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope 
 taken.  At least, if you *can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created 
 by TM, then I'm totally unaware of how to do so.
  
 This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to buy 
 and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on you, 
 but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those features by 
 no means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro musician as a 
 lot of you know.
  
 So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million 
 dollar question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At 
 first, usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being 
 said, I don't use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire up 
 Super Dooper, take an exact bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my 
 drive's current state, then, I'll update, and if something goes 
 disastrous, it's no big deal.  I just roll back from that image I made, 
 and within an hour or two, I'm downgraded and right back in perfect 
 working order as if I'd never updated to start with.
  
 So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time 
 Machine, but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full 
 backup sollution.  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you 
 catch my jidst.  If all you want is to back up your files, settings, and 
 apps, then OK, whatever, go for it, but if you're really wanting to be the 
 most optimally safe as possible, then look  into a full backup sollution 
 like Super Duper, or Carbon Copy Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long run, 
 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

And I do not appreciate Scott's comment at all!  I was trying to help for God 
given sake!  Tim is correct in that it's not required to boot to a backup.  In 
that sense, yes, it's a full backup.  I agree, but that wasn't my initial 
point, and I think I made it very clear as such.  I never said TM wasn't 
doable.  I only said it won't make a full bootable backup, which I, along with 
some others, might more prefer.  Don't say I speak crap, or whatever word you 
choose until you get your facts straight of what I actually said, not of what I 
didn't say nor imply.

Enough said.  I'm not participating in this thread anymore.  I've stated my 
personal preference, for what it's worth, which apparently is nothing valued, 
so who cares! I'm done with it!  Figure the backup process out yourself.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Singing Sparrow 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:37 PM
  Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
before updating to Sierra


  I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back up 
and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and the like 
for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back up would be 
more of the slutation then time machine.




  On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self talk. 


Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot off 
the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup solutions 
aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a database or in an 
on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s not a full backup.  If you 
restore from time machine you’ll get back to exactly where you were when that 
snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape library would that make my 
backup less valid because you don’t boot from tape?  I don’t get it. 


Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
school data just fine.




  On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


  The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  
It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and settings, 
but if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end of the day, a 
true OS backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, show me how to boot 
from a time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope taken.  At least, if you 
*can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created by TM, then I'm totally 
unaware of how to do so.

  This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to 
buy and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on you, 
but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those features by no 
means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro musician as a lot of 
you know.

  So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million 
dollar question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At first, 
usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being said, I don't 
use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire up Super Dooper, take 
an exact bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my drive's current state, then, 
I'll update, and if something goes disastrous, it's no big deal.  I just roll 
back from that image I made, and within an hour or two, I'm downgraded and 
right back in perfect working order as if I'd never updated to start with.

  So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time 
Machine, but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full backup 
sollution.  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you catch my 
jidst.  If all you want is to back up your files, settings, and apps, then OK, 
whatever, go for it, but if you're really wanting to be the most optimally safe 
as possible, then look  into a full backup sollution like Super Duper, or 
Carbon Copy Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long run, it just may save you a day 
or more of hard hard work.
  ---
  Christopher Gilland
  JAWS Certified, 2016.
  Training Instructor.

  i...@gillandmarketing.com
  Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message -
From: lscrivani
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
computer before updating to Sierra


  Time machine is extremely easy to use,  almost as soon as you connect 
your back up drive to the computer it will come up and start the backup.  If it 
does not for any reason either open finder and look under 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

You're incorrect on one factor here.  For the most part, you're dead spot on, 
but you don't need a time capsle to do a Time Machine backup.  Just beware.  
It'll work just by plugging an external drive into the system.  Time Capsles 
are really cool, don't get me wrong, but they're really not necessary in this 
case.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Singing Sparrow 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:37 PM
  Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
before updating to Sierra


  I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back up 
and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and the like 
for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back up would be 
more of the slutation then time machine.




  On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self talk. 


Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot off 
the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup solutions 
aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a database or in an 
on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s not a full backup.  If you 
restore from time machine you’ll get back to exactly where you were when that 
snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape library would that make my 
backup less valid because you don’t boot from tape?  I don’t get it. 


Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
school data just fine.




  On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


  The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  
It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and settings, 
but if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end of the day, a 
true OS backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, show me how to boot 
from a time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope taken.  At least, if you 
*can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created by TM, then I'm totally 
unaware of how to do so.

  This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to 
buy and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on you, 
but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those features by no 
means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro musician as a lot of 
you know.

  So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million 
dollar question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At first, 
usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being said, I don't 
use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire up Super Dooper, take 
an exact bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my drive's current state, then, 
I'll update, and if something goes disastrous, it's no big deal.  I just roll 
back from that image I made, and within an hour or two, I'm downgraded and 
right back in perfect working order as if I'd never updated to start with.

  So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time 
Machine, but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full backup 
sollution.  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you catch my 
jidst.  If all you want is to back up your files, settings, and apps, then OK, 
whatever, go for it, but if you're really wanting to be the most optimally safe 
as possible, then look  into a full backup sollution like Super Duper, or 
Carbon Copy Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long run, it just may save you a day 
or more of hard hard work.
  ---
  Christopher Gilland
  JAWS Certified, 2016.
  Training Instructor.

  i...@gillandmarketing.com
  Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message -
From: lscrivani
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
computer before updating to Sierra


  Time machine is extremely easy to use,  almost as soon as you connect 
your back up drive to the computer it will come up and start the backup.  If it 
does not for any reason either open finder and look under apps and choose time 
machine.If you need to  you can choose the backup drive  and click to show 
it  the time machine app that is.
Louis


From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 2:29 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
computer before updating to Sierra

Hi all! How are you all? So I want to back up my mac before updating to 
Sierra 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Donna Goodin]

Yep.  I've used a portable drive for Time Machine backups since getting my 
first Mac in 2009.  Works like a charm, no need for a router or anything else.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> What on earth gave you the idea that you need an airport express router or a 
> time  capsule to do a back up? I have a hard drive that I've had for too long 
> frankly, and it houses my time machine back up with no time capsule and no 
> router. Just connect a hard drive and do the back up.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:37 AM, Singing Sparrow  > wrote:
> 
>> I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back up 
>> and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and the 
>> like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back up 
>> would be more of the slutation then time machine.
>> 
>> On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self talk.
>>> 
>>> Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot off 
>>> the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup 
>>> solutions aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a 
>>> database or in an on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s not 
>>> a full backup.  If you restore from time machine you’ll get back to exactly 
>>> where you were when that snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape 
>>> library would that make my backup less valid because you don’t boot from 
>>> tape?  I don’t get it. 
>>> 
>>> Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
>>> school data just fine.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 > wrote:
 
 The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  
 It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and 
 settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end of 
 the day, a true OS backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, show 
 me how to boot from a time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope 
 taken.  At least, if you *can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created 
 by TM, then I'm totally unaware of how to do so.
  
 This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to buy 
 and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on you, 
 but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those features by 
 no means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro musician as a 
 lot of you know.
  
 So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million 
 dollar question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At 
 first, usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being 
 said, I don't use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire up 
 Super Dooper, take an exact bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my 
 drive's current state, then, I'll update, and if something goes 
 disastrous, it's no big deal.  I just roll back from that image I made, 
 and within an hour or two, I'm downgraded and right back in perfect 
 working order as if I'd never updated to start with.
  
 So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time 
 Machine, but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full 
 backup sollution.  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you 
 catch my jidst.  If all you want is to back up your files, settings, and 
 apps, then OK, whatever, go for it, but if you're really wanting to be the 
 most optimally safe as possible, then look  into a full backup sollution 
 like Super Duper, or Carbon Copy Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long run, 
 it just may save you a day or more of hard hard work.
 ---
 Christopher Gilland
 JAWS Certified, 2016.
 Training Instructor.
  
 i...@gillandmarketing.com 
 Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> - Original Message -
> From: lscrivani 
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
> computer before updating to Sierra
> 
>   Time machine is extremely easy to use,  almost as soon as you connect 
> your back up drive to the computer it will come up and start the backup.  
> If it does not for any reason either open finder and look under apps and 
> choose time machine.If you need to  you can choose the backup drive  
> and click to show it  

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[John JD Denning]

It appears there's been a lot of discussion on this subject. And I'm kind of 
surprise. Because I was just pointed out backing up the Mac is incredibly 
simple and straightforward. Go get a USB or thunderbolt hard drive plugged in 
and use Time Machine. That's the simplest way.

I do to back ups when using super Duper to a thunderbolt raid drive. That is 
incredibly fast. And I do a time machine back up to a USB three drive.

I love the clones, it's great to just be able to change your start up disk and 
be right where you were when you did the back up. Everyone should have a back 
up. It's just the cost of a external drive. Save yourself lots of aggravation 
and go out and get an external drive. If you ever need it you'll be glad you did

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 13:01, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> No again you’re wrong.  You do not need an airport or time capsule for time 
> machine.  That’s just nonsense.  Any hard disk will work.  You can connect 
> directly via USB, you can connect via network to some drives, you can use a 
> time capsule if you want, you can use an airport router with a hard drive 
> attached to provide backups to a whole network but these are not 
> requirements.  A single external pluggable hard disk is all you need.  Also, 
> it totally restores on a blank disk, no reinstallation of programs or 
> operating system, it’s just a full backup which you can fully restore from.  
> None of the rest matters a hill of beans.
> 
>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
>> 
>> I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back up 
>> and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and the 
>> like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back up 
>> would be more of the slutation then time machine.
>> 
>>> On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self talk.
>>> 
>>> Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot off 
>>> the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup 
>>> solutions aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a 
>>> database or in an on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s not 
>>> a full backup.  If you restore from time machine you’ll get back to exactly 
>>> where you were when that snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape 
>>> library would that make my backup less valid because you don’t boot from 
>>> tape?  I don’t get it. 
>>> 
>>> Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
>>> school data just fine.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
  wrote:
 
 The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  
 It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and 
 settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end of 
 the day, a true OS backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, show 
 me how to boot from a time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope 
 taken.  At least, if you *can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created 
 by TM, then I'm totally unaware of how to do so.
  
 This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to buy 
 and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on you, 
 but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those features by 
 no means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro musician as a 
 lot of you know.
  
 So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million 
 dollar question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At 
 first, usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being 
 said, I don't use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire up 
 Super Dooper, take an exact bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my 
 drive's current state, then, I'll update, and if something goes 
 disastrous, it's no big deal.  I just roll back from that image I made, 
 and within an hour or two, I'm downgraded and right back in perfect 
 working order as if I'd never updated to start with.
  
 So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time 
 Machine, but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full 
 backup sollution.  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you 
 catch my jidst.  If all you want is to back up your files, settings, and 
 apps, then OK, whatever, go for it, but if you're really wanting to be the 
 most optimally safe as possible, then look  into a full backup sollution 
 like Super Duper, or Carbon Copy Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long run, 
 it just may save you a day or more of hard hard work.
 ---
 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Mary Otten]

What on earth gave you the idea that you need an airport express router or a 
time  capsule to do a back up? I have a hard drive that I've had for too long 
frankly, and it houses my time machine back up with no time capsule and no 
router. Just connect a hard drive and do the back up.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:37 AM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
> 
> I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back up 
> and also since you need a time capsel, or airport   express router and 
> the like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back up 
> would be more of the slutation then   time machine.
> 
>> On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self talk.
>> 
>> Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot off 
>> the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup solutions 
>> aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a database or in 
>> an on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s not a full backup.  
>> If you restore from time machine you’ll get back to exactly where you were 
>> when that snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape library would that 
>> make my backup less valid because you don’t boot from tape?  I don’t get it. 
>> 
>> Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
>> school data just fine.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  
>>> It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and 
>>> settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end of 
>>> the day, a true OS backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, show 
>>> me how to boot from a time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope taken. 
>>>  At least, if you *can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created by TM, 
>>> then I'm totally unaware of how to do so.
>>>  
>>> This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to buy 
>>> and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on you, 
>>> but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those features by 
>>> no means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro musician as a 
>>> lot of you know.
>>>  
>>> So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million dollar 
>>> question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At first, 
>>> usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being said, I 
>>> don't use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire up Super 
>>> Dooper, take an exact bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my drive's 
>>> current state, then, I'll update, and if something goes disastrous, it's no 
>>> big deal.  I just roll back from that image I made, and within an hour or 
>>> two, I'm downgraded and right back in perfect working order as if I'd never 
>>> updated to start with.
>>>  
>>> So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time 
>>> Machine, but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full backup 
>>> sollution.  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you catch my 
>>> jidst.  If all you want is to back up your files, settings, and apps, then 
>>> OK, whatever, go for it, but if you're really wanting to be the most 
>>> optimally safe as possible, then look  into a full backup sollution like 
>>> Super Duper, or Carbon Copy Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long run, it 
>>> just may save you a day or more of hard hard work.
>>> ---
>>> Christopher Gilland
>>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>>> Training Instructor.
>>>  
>>> i...@gillandmarketing.com
>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
 - Original Message -
 From: lscrivani
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:34 AM
 Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
 computer before updating to Sierra
 
   Time machine is extremely easy to use,  almost as soon as you connect 
 your back up drive to the computer it will come up and start the backup.  
 If it does not for any reason either open finder and look under apps and 
 choose time machine.If you need to  you can choose the backup drive  
 and click to show it  the time machine app that is.
 Louis
  
  
 From: Helga Schreiber
 Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 2:29 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
 before updating to Sierra
  
 Hi all! How are you all? So I want to back up my mac before updating to 
 Sierra guys. I heard of time machine, but will that back up all my 
 information  I  have  and so on.  If so, I don't know how to 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Scott Granados]

No again you’re wrong.  You do not need an airport or time capsule for time 
machine.  That’s just nonsense.  Any hard disk will work.  You can connect 
directly via USB, you can connect via network to some drives, you can use a 
time capsule if you want, you can use an airport router with a hard drive 
attached to provide backups to a whole network but these are not requirements.  
A single external pluggable hard disk is all you need.  Also, it totally 
restores on a blank disk, no reinstallation of programs or operating system, 
it’s just a full backup which you can fully restore from.  None of the rest 
matters a hill of beans.

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
> 
> I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back up 
> and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and the like 
> for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back up would be 
> more of the slutation then time machine.
> 
> On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self talk.
>> 
>> Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot off 
>> the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup solutions 
>> aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a database or in 
>> an on-tap file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s not a full backup.  
>> If you restore from time machine you’ll get back to exactly where you were 
>> when that snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape library would that 
>> make my backup less valid because you don’t boot from tape?  I don’t get it. 
>> 
>> Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that 
>> school data just fine.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  
>>> It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and 
>>> settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end of 
>>> the day, a true OS backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, show 
>>> me how to boot from a time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope taken. 
>>>  At least, if you *can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created by TM, 
>>> then I'm totally unaware of how to do so.
>>>  
>>> This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to buy 
>>> and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on you, 
>>> but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those features by 
>>> no means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro musician as a 
>>> lot of you know.
>>>  
>>> So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million dollar 
>>> question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At first, 
>>> usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being said, I 
>>> don't use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire up Super 
>>> Dooper, take an exact bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my drive's 
>>> current state, then, I'll update, and if something goes disastrous, it's no 
>>> big deal.  I just roll back from that image I made, and within an hour or 
>>> two, I'm downgraded and right back in perfect working order as if I'd never 
>>> updated to start with.
>>>  
>>> So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time 
>>> Machine, but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full backup 
>>> sollution.  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you catch my 
>>> jidst.  If all you want is to back up your files, settings, and apps, then 
>>> OK, whatever, go for it, but if you're really wanting to be the most 
>>> optimally safe as possible, then look  into a full backup sollution like 
>>> Super Duper, or Carbon Copy Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long run, it 
>>> just may save you a day or more of hard hard work.
>>> ---
>>> Christopher Gilland
>>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>>> Training Instructor.
>>>  
>>> i...@gillandmarketing.com 
>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
 - Original Message -
 From: lscrivani 
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:34 AM
 Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
 computer before updating to Sierra
 
   Time machine is extremely easy to use,  almost as soon as you connect 
 your back up drive to the computer it will come up and start the backup.  
 If it does not for any reason either open finder and look under apps and 
 choose time machine.If you need to  you can choose the backup drive  
 and click to show it  the time machine app that is.
 Louis
  

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Singing Sparrow]

I can see chris's points because time machine is really not a true back 
up and also since you need a time capsel, or airport express router and 
the like for time machine to work the way chris stated to do a true back 
up would be more of the slutation then time machine.



On 9/21/2016 8:30 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self 
talk.


Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to 
boot off the backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass 
backup solutions aren’t a backup either.  Just because the data is 
stored in a database or in an on-tap file system or time machine 
doesn’t mean it’s not a full backup.  If you restore from time machine 
you’ll get back to exactly where you were when that snapshot was 
taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape library would that make my backup 
less valid because you don’t boot from tape?  I don’t get it.


Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure 
that school data just fine.



On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
> wrote:


The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your 
drive. It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, 
files, and settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's 
not, at the end of the day, a true OS backup regardless what anyone 
says.  For instance, show me how to boot from a time machine backup.  
You can't.  Point I hope taken.  At least, if you *can!* literally 
boot from a  drive soly created by TM, then I'm totally unaware of 
how to do so.
This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you 
to buy and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will 
expire on you, but there are just some features that won't be 
enabled.  Those features by no means are door stoppers though.  For 
instance.  I'm a pro musician as a lot of you know.
So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million 
dollar question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  
At first, usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This 
being said, I don't use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll 
instead fire up Super Dooper, take an exact bootable, mind you, 
snapshot image of my drive's current state, then, I'll update, and if 
something goes disastrous, it's no big deal.  I just roll back from 
that image I made, and within an hour or two, I'm downgraded and 
right back in perfect working order as if I'd never updated to start 
with.
So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time 
Machine, but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full 
backup sollution.  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if 
you catch my jidst.  If all you want is to back up your files, 
settings, and apps, then OK, whatever, go for it, but if you're 
really wanting to be the most optimally safe as possible, then look  
into a full backup sollution like Super Duper, or Carbon Copy Cloner, 
etc.  Trust me, in the long run, it just may save you a day or more 
of hard hard work.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.
i...@gillandmarketing.com 
Phone: (704) 256-8010.

- Original Message -
*From:*lscrivani 
*To:*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 


*Sent:*Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:34 AM
*Subject:*Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
computer before updating to Sierra


  Time machine is extremely easy to use,  almost as soon as you 
connect your back up drive to the computer it will come up and start 
the backup.  If it does not for any reason either open finder and 
look under apps and choose time machine.If you need to  you can 
choose the backup drive  and click to show it  the time machine app 
that is.

Louis
*From:*Helga Schreiber
*Sent:*Wednesday, September 21, 2016 2:29 AM
*To:*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 

*Subject:*Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac 
computer before updating to Sierra
Hi all! How are you all? So I want to back up my mac before updating 
to Sierra guys. I heard of time machine, but will that back up all 
my information  I  have  and so on.  If so, I don't know how to set 
time machine in order to use it with my mac. Or   Is there any other 
tools that you recommend  I can use in order   to back up my 
information of my mac computer better?  On my Mac computer I have 
VM  ware fusion running windows, and I hve my OS 10,and i use both 
of them for school assignments and so on. I'm just backing up my 
information just in case something  could occur with my computer. In 
regards of Virtual machines they can also be back up in order not to 
lose information of it right?  I wil really  appreciate it a lot if 
you guys can 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Scott is totally correct.  A Time Machine backup is indeed a full backup.  
Being able to boot from a backup is not a requirement of a full backup.  The 
only limitation you'll find with the Time Machine backup is that it will not 
backup any Bootcamp partitions.  If your Windows is run via a virtual Desktop 
like Parallels, then Time Machine will indeed still work.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 21, 2016, at 07:30, Scott Granados  wrote:

This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self talk.

Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot off the 
backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup solutions aren’t 
a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a database or in an on-tap 
file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s not a full backup.  If you 
restore from time machine you’ll get back to exactly where you were when that 
snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape library would that make my 
backup less valid because you don’t boot from tape?  I don’t get it. 

Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that school 
data just fine.


> On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  > wrote:
> 
> The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  
> It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and 
> settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end of 
> the day, a true OS backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, show me 
> how to boot from a time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope taken.  At 
> least, if you *can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created by TM, then 
> I'm totally unaware of how to do so.
>  
> This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to buy 
> and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on you, 
> but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those features by no 
> means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro musician as a lot 
> of you know.
>  
> So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million dollar 
> question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At first, 
> usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being said, I 
> don't use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire up Super 
> Dooper, take an exact bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my drive's 
> current state, then, I'll update, and if something goes disastrous, it's no 
> big deal.  I just roll back from that image I made, and within an hour or 
> two, I'm downgraded and right back in perfect working order as if I'd never 
> updated to start with.
>  
> So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time Machine, 
> but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full backup sollution. 
>  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you catch my jidst.  If 
> all you want is to back up your files, settings, and apps, then OK, whatever, 
> go for it, but if you're really wanting to be the most optimally safe as 
> possible, then look  into a full backup sollution like Super Duper, or Carbon 
> Copy Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long run, it just may save you a day or 
> more of hard hard work.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>  
> i...@gillandmarketing.com 
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: lscrivani 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
>> before updating to Sierra
>> 
>>   Time machine is extremely easy to use,  almost as soon as you connect your 
>> back up drive to the computer it will come up and start the backup.  If it 
>> does not for any reason either open finder and look under apps and choose 
>> time machine.If you need to  you can choose the backup drive  and click 
>> to show it  the time machine app that is.
>> Louis
>>  
>>  
>> From: Helga Schreiber <>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 2:29 AM
>> To:  <>macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> Subject: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
>> before updating to Sierra
>>  
>> Hi all! How are you all? So I want to back up my mac before updating to 
>> Sierra guys. I heard of time machine, but will that back up all my 
>> information  I  have  and so on.  If so, I don't know how to set time 
>> machine in order  to use it with my mac. Or   Is there any other tools that 
>> you recommend  I can use in  order   to back up my information of my mac 
>> computer better?  On my Mac computer I have VM  ware fusion 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Scott Granados]

This is such bunk, sometimes Chris I think you talk to hear your self talk.

Of course it’s a true backup, when the hell is it a requirement to boot off the 
backup.  By this logic Veritas and the rest of the mass backup solutions aren’t 
a backup either.  Just because the data is stored in a database or in an on-tap 
file system or time machine doesn’t mean it’s not a full backup.  If you 
restore from time machine you’ll get back to exactly where you were when that 
snapshot was taken.  IF I used a terabyte tape library would that make my 
backup less valid because you don’t boot from tape?  I don’t get it. 

Helga, Time Machine will do exactly what you want to do and secure that school 
data just fine.


> On Sep 21, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  
> It's great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and 
> settings, but if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end of 
> the day, a true OS backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, show me 
> how to boot from a time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope taken.  At 
> least, if you *can!* literally boot from a  drive soly created by TM, then 
> I'm totally unaware of how to do so.
>  
> This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to buy 
> and register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on you, 
> but there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those features by no 
> means are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro musician as a lot 
> of you know.
>  
> So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million dollar 
> question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At first, 
> usually, the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being said, I 
> don't use Time Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire up Super 
> Dooper, take an exact bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my drive's 
> current state, then, I'll update, and if something goes disastrous, it's no 
> big deal.  I just roll back from that image I made, and within an hour or 
> two, I'm downgraded and right back in perfect working order as if I'd never 
> updated to start with.
>  
> So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time Machine, 
> but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full backup sollution. 
>  It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you catch my jidst.  If 
> all you want is to back up your files, settings, and apps, then OK, whatever, 
> go for it, but if you're really wanting to be the most optimally safe as 
> possible, then look  into a full backup sollution like Super Duper, or Carbon 
> Copy Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long run, it just may save you a day or 
> more of hard hard work.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>  
> i...@gillandmarketing.com 
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: lscrivani 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
>> before updating to Sierra
>> 
>>   Time machine is extremely easy to use,  almost as soon as you connect your 
>> back up drive to the computer it will come up and start the backup.  If it 
>> does not for any reason either open finder and look under apps and choose 
>> time machine.If you need to  you can choose the backup drive  and click 
>> to show it  the time machine app that is.
>> Louis
>>  
>>  
>> From: Helga Schreiber <>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 2:29 AM
>> To:  <>macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> Subject: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
>> before updating to Sierra
>>  
>> Hi all! How are you all? So I want to back up my mac before updating to 
>> Sierra guys. I heard of time machine, but will that back up all my 
>> information  I  have  and so on.  If so, I don't know how to set time 
>> machine in order  to use it with my mac. Or   Is there any other tools that 
>> you recommend  I can use in  order   to back up my information of my mac 
>> computer better?  On my Mac computer I have VM  ware fusion running windows, 
>> and I hve my OS 10,and i use both of them for school assignments and so on. 
>> I'm just backing up my information just in case something  could occur with 
>> my computer. In regards of Virtual machines they can also be back up in 
>> order  not to lose information of it right?  I wil really  appreciate it a 
>> lot if you guys can give me any feedback about this. I look forward in 
>> hearing from you soon. Thanks and God bless! 
>> 
>>   Helga Schreiber  
>> Group Moderator   
>>   
>>   for the 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

The problem with Time Machine is, it's not an exact image of your drive.  It's 
great for basic things, and for backing up your apps, files, and settings, but 
if you want to really get technical, it's not, at the end of the day, a true OS 
backup regardless what anyone says.  For instance, show me how to boot from a 
time machine backup.  You can't.  Point I hope taken.  At least, if you *can!* 
literally boot from a  drive soly created by TM, then I'm totally unaware of 
how to do so.

This is exactly why I use Super Duper.  Though they'd encourage you to buy and 
register it, you don't actually have to.  It never will expire on you, but 
there are just some features that won't be enabled.  Those features by no means 
are door stoppers though.  For instance.  I'm a pro musician as a lot of you 
know.

So, when a new major OS like this comes out, it's always the million dollar 
question, will ProTools work with this OS with no problems?  At first, usually, 
the answer is no.  But, I always try anyway.  This being said, I don't use Time 
Machine for those situations.  I'll instead fire up Super Dooper, take an exact 
bootable, mind you, snapshot image of my drive's current state, then, I'll 
update, and if something goes disastrous, it's no big deal.  I just roll back 
from that image I made, and within an hour or two, I'm downgraded and right 
back in perfect working order as if I'd never updated to start with.

So yeah, call me weird.  I like the idea of what Apple did with Time Machine, 
but I just don't think it's fair to tell people it's a full backup sollution.  
It's not.  It sort of is, but it sort of isn't, if you catch my jidst.  If all 
you want is to back up your files, settings, and apps, then OK, whatever, go 
for it, but if you're really wanting to be the most optimally safe as possible, 
then look  into a full backup sollution like Super Duper, or Carbon Copy 
Cloner, etc.  Trust me, in the long run, it just may save you a day or more of 
hard hard work.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: lscrivani 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
before updating to Sierra


Time machine is extremely easy to use,  almost as soon as you connect your 
back up drive to the computer it will come up and start the backup.  If it does 
not for any reason either open finder and look under apps and choose time 
machine.If you need to  you can choose the backup drive  and click to show 
it  the time machine app that is.
  Louis


  From: Helga Schreiber 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 2:29 AM
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Subject: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer 
before updating to Sierra

  Hi all! How are you all? So I want to back up my mac before updating to 
Sierra guys. I heard of time machine, but will that back up all my information  
I  have  and so on.  If so, I don't know how to set time machine in order  to 
use it with my mac. Or   Is there any other tools that you recommend  I can use 
in  order   to back up my information of my mac computer better?  On my Mac 
computer I have VM  ware fusion running windows, and I hve my OS 10,and i use 
both of them for school assignments and so on. I'm just backing up my 
information just in case something  could occur with my computer. In regards of 
Virtual machines they can also be back up in order  not to lose information of 
it right?  I wil really  appreciate it a lot if you guys can give me any 
feedback about this. I look forward in hearing from you soon. Thanks and God 
bless! 

Helga Schreiber  
  Group Moderator   

for the IPad help for the blind 

  ipadhelpfortheblind+subscr...@groups.io  

  Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind 
Students.
  Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
  Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
  Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
  Email: helga.schreibe...@gmail.com 
  Skype: helga.schreiber26 
  4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
  INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

  "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever 
believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
  Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 10
  -- 
  The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.
   
  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
   
  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[Scott Granados]

Hi there, time machine is your best bet for backing up a Mac.  You’ll need a 
backup disk of some sort which you can either attach directly or make available 
over the network.  You could get something like a Western Digital external hard 
drive which you simply plug in to the Mac or you could get something like a 
Western Digital my cloud that plugs in to your network.  If you already use an 
Airport there’s a USB port you could plug an external drive in to and make it 
available over the network as well.  if you need more detail on the disk 
options let me know, I don’t know which way you want to go here but that’s a 
rough idea of your options.

Next, once you have your disk squared away you go in to time machine and turn 
it on, plug in your disk and select it under select disk and let it go.  The 
first time will be a full backup.  You can then have incremental automatic 
backups if the disk is connected or in future if you like you can attach the 
disk and a backup will start catching up what’s on the external disk with 
what’s in your Mac automatically.  The advantage of an external disk you plug 
in is you can take it elsewhere for off site backups but that depends on how 
much effort and how critical your data is.

I hope I  haven’t confused you.  Do ask any more questions if you have them.

Thanks
Scott

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 2:29 AM, Helga Schreiber  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all! How are you all? So I want to back up my mac before updating to 
> Sierra guys. I heard of time machine, but will that back up all my 
> information  I  have  and so on.  If so, I don't know how to set time machine 
> in order  to use it with my mac. Or   Is there any other tools that you 
> recommend  I can use in  order   to back up my information of my mac computer 
> better?  On my Mac computer I have VM  ware fusion running windows, and I hve 
> my OS 10,and i use both of them for school assignments and so on. I'm just 
> backing up my information just in case something  could occur with my 
> computer. In regards of Virtual machines they can also be back up in order  
> not to lose information of it right?  I wil really  appreciate it a lot if 
> you guys can give me any feedback about this. I look forward in hearing from 
> you soon. Thanks and God bless! 
> 
>   Helga Schreiber 
> Group Moderator  
>  
>   for the IPad help for the blind 
>  
> ipadhelpfortheblind+subscr...@groups.io 
>   
> 
> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind 
> Students.
> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
> Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
> Email: helga.schreibe...@gmail.com  
> Skype: helga.schreiber26 
> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.as 
> px 
> INT Website: http://int4life.com/  
> 
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever 
> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
> Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 10
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
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> .
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> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your 

Re: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before updating to Sierra

[lscrivani]

  Time machine is extremely easy to use,  almost as soon as you connect your 
back up drive to the computer it will come up and start the backup.  If it does 
not for any reason either open finder and look under apps and choose time 
machine.If you need to  you can choose the backup drive  and click to show 
it  the time machine app that is.
Louis


From: Helga Schreiber 
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 2:29 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Suggestions in how can I back up information of my Mac computer before 
updating to Sierra

Hi all! How are you all? So I want to back up my mac before updating to Sierra 
guys. I heard of time machine, but will that back up all my information  I  
have  and so on.  If so, I don't know how to set time machine in order  to use 
it with my mac. Or   Is there any other tools that you recommend  I can use in  
order   to back up my information of my mac computer better?  On my Mac 
computer I have VM  ware fusion running windows, and I hve my OS 10,and i use 
both of them for school assignments and so on. I'm just backing up my 
information just in case something  could occur with my computer. In regards of 
Virtual machines they can also be back up in order  not to lose information of 
it right?  I wil really  appreciate it a lot if you guys can give me any 
feedback about this. I look forward in hearing from you soon. Thanks and God 
bless! 

  Helga Schreiber  
Group Moderator   
  
  for the IPad help for the blind 

ipadhelpfortheblind+subscr...@groups.io  

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind 
Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Email: helga.schreibe...@gmail.com 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever 
believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 10
-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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The archives for this list can be searched at:
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