Re: [MlMt] How to set the IMAP Path Prefix? (Goal: flat folder structure)
On 2022-01-25 at 17:34:30 UTC-0500 (Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:34:30 -0600)
Quinn Comendant
is rumored to have said:
Hello,
How do I set the IMAP Path Prefix in MailMate?
MailMate should figure out the prefix on its own, but you can set it
explicitly with the "Hidden Preference" namespaceResponse in
~Library/ApplicationSupport/MailMate/Sources.plist file. Documented on
the Hidden Preferences page of the help and in this bug report:
https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/267-imap-server-directory
The format of that setting requires an understanding of how IMAP works
with namespaces.
I'm connecting to a Courier IMAP server. In other email clients, I
have had to set the IMAP Path Prefix to `INBOX` for my folders to
display correctly.
This attribute added to the relevant source stanza in Sources.plist MAY
work for you:
namespaceResponse = '(("INBOX" "/")) NIL NIL';
--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [MlMt] Excluding an account Source from global search and Mailboxes
On 2022-01-04 at 02:45:41 UTC-0500 (Tue, 04 Jan 2022 08:45:41 +0100) Alexandre Takacs is rumored to have said: > They do > > But there are lots of situations when MM functionalities rely on the global > search as the default source. It would be useful to the able to better > specify what goes into that “pot” :) > > On 4 Jan 2022, at 8:37, John Doherty via mailmate wrote: > >> Anyway, just a thought. Smart mailboxes are a pretty great feature of >> MailMate and seem like they could help with your situation. If you want the search box to search a subset of messages, you can set the 'Default Mailbox' to a Smart Mailbox which excludes whatever source or whatever you want to exclude. Click the pull-down in the search box to select one. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] CPU around 60% with r5852
On 2021-12-09 at 10:43:18 UTC-0500 (Thu, 09 Dec 2021 16:43:18 +0100) Florian Heidenreich is rumored to have said: I'm observing high CPU usage of around ~60% CPU on a MacBook Air M1 under Big Sur 11.6.1 when doing nothing with MailMate r5852. My observations so far: - does not happen when starting MailMate - starts after sending an email or reading a couple of messages from my inbox - stops and goes to 0% when hiding MailMate via Cmd+H, reappears on unhide - something related to updating the view when it's actually not always needed? Would be interesting to know if it's only happening for me or if it's a more common problem. I run into MM chewing up CPU occasionally after moving a message into Trash or Junk. When this happens, the Activity Viewer shows one IMAP session trapped in a very fast loop of FETCH and NOOP commands. I have not tried hide/unhide, but offline/online of the source breaks the loop. I've had a ticket open on this for quite a long time. When you have this problem, have you checked the Activity Viewer? -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Exchange: How to add another account with same credentials as the main account
On 2021-11-12 at 11:55:04 UTC-0500 (Fri, 12 Nov 2021 17:55:04 +0100) Mike Brasch is rumored to have said: Moin, On 7 Nov 2021, at 20:00, Mike Brasch wrote: Access another user mailbox: Either set base IMAP path in client settings to /users/otheru...@company.com or use the following username: domain\user\otheru...@company.com where otheru...@company.com it target mailbox name. The username way does not work. I only get a "wrong passwod". Where can I set the base IMAP path for the other variant? Where I can specify the base IMAP path. Is there a file I can edit? Not in MM. I don't think MM supports specifying a base path for a source account. This may be something you must do in DavMail? PLEASE HELP!!! Outlook is driving my crazy. :) It tends to do that... -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Markdown formatting
On 2021-11-10 at 18:08:27 UTC-0500 (Wed, 10 Nov 2021 15:08:27 -0800) Randall Gellens is rumored to have said: I believe 1.13.2 is the latest for 10.anything. Nope. The test versions through the current r5844 have all run on Mojave (10.14.) No major issues and Benny cheerfully accepts bug reports for them on Mojave. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Looking for error cause/name
On 2021-10-30 at 14:17:10 UTC-0400 (Sat, 30 Oct 2021 11:17:10 -0700) Tracy Valleau is rumored to have said: Hello. My host is trying to chase down a synchronization error. Recent, I got a spate of error boxes upon launch of MM, pointing to something (IN ALL CAPS) that apparently changed on the host and caused MM to re-sync or re-load all the messages. The ALL CAPS was (I believe) some kind UID. The message would let me resync once; resync always or (one other thing I can't recall either.) Problem is, I didn't screenshot the error message, and I cannot remember the actual "UID" mentioned. If anyone can tell me what I'm thinking of, I'll pass it along to my host as a possible solution. Anyone know what I'm talking about and what that particular "UID" was actually named? Most likely "UIDVALIDITY" That is an IMAP parameter that essentially acts as a version number for a mailbox. As long as the UIDVALIDITY does not change, a client can trust that message unique IDs in that mailbox have not changed, although messages with new UIDs may have been added or past messages expunged. UIDVALIDITY lifetime is often measured in years. It makes sense for MM to alert on a UIDVALIDITY change because it indicates that a significant event on the IMAP server has occurred, such as a restoration from backup or migration to a new system, which will require a full re-synch of the mailbox. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] How can I create a Smart Mailbox with all emails I have sent?
On 2021-10-14 at 21:20:47 UTC-0400 (Fri, 15 Oct 2021 12:20:47 +1100) leo is rumored to have said: Hi all, I would like to create a Smart Mailbox containing all emails I have sent. By default, MM has a "Sent Messages" mailbox which aggregates the mailboxes in all accounts which are marked as "Sent" type. It should do what you want. If you've somehow deleted it, you can recreate it by adding a smart mailbox which covers those source mailboxes and has no conditions or rules. I have tried a condition like `“From -> Address“ contains ““`: But with this the Smart Mailbox contains spam which pretends to be sent from my address as well. If for some reason you don't have "Sent" source mailboxes and really need to find messages you have sent in source mailboxes that also have mail you didn't send, the condition "Received" "Does Not Exist" should do the trick. Note that this will skip copies of your own messages sent back to you by mailing lists like this one. Is there a mail header which says „_This message was really sent from this particular SMTP server_“ or similar? If a reliable header like that existed, the character of the Internet would be unrecognizable. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] alert sounds
On 2021-10-15 at 10:15:13 UTC-0400 (Fri, 15 Oct 2021 10:15:13 -0400) Shoshanna Green is rumored to have said: I'm running MailMate v5820 under High Sierra, and even though I have disabled "Play sound for notification" under System Preferences > Notifications > MailMate, my system BINGs every time a message arrives. (As well as presenting the banner alert I do want.) I have been completely unable to figure out where this sound is coming from, so that I can turn it off. Any ideas? Please? Have you looked at all 4 "corners" in the dreaded Counters pane of MM's Preferences? -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] smart mailbox
On 2021-09-23 at 16:25:34 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:25:34 -0400)
Bill Cole
is rumored to have said:
On 2021-09-23 at 14:28:22 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:28:22 -0400)
Bill Cole
is rumored to have said:
On 2021-09-23 at 14:05:13 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:05:13 -0700)
Jo
is rumored to have said:
On 23 Sep 2021, at 8:47, Bill Cole wrote:
On 2021-09-23 at 10:31:58 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:31:58
+0200)
aisrael
is rumored to have said:
How did you change the attribution line??
The above was achieved with this command:
defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmReplyWroteString '"On %F at
%X UTC%z (${date})\n${from.name}
<${reply-to.address:${from.address}}>\nis rumored to have said: "'
Unpleasant misfeature in r5826: MM interpreted that line(!) and
displayed something very wrong. (see attachment)
It even does it in quotes. And in partial quotations (select+reply) but
not full-message replies. See attachment for what that line REALLY is...
--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [MlMt] smart mailbox
On 2021-09-23 at 14:28:22 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:28:22 -0400)
Bill Cole
is rumored to have said:
On 2021-09-23 at 14:05:13 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:05:13 -0700)
Jo
is rumored to have said:
On 23 Sep 2021, at 8:47, Bill Cole wrote:
On 2021-09-23 at 10:31:58 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:31:58 +0200)
aisrael
is rumored to have said:
How did you change the attribution line??
The above was achieved with this command:
defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmReplyWroteString '"On %F at
%X UTC%z (${date})\n${from.name}
<${reply-to.address:${from.address}}>\nis rumored to have said: "'
Unpleasant misfeature in r5826: MM interpreted that line(!) and
displayed something very wrong. (see attachment)
--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [MlMt] smart mailbox
On 2021-09-23 at 14:05:13 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:05:13 -0700)
Jo
is rumored to have said:
> On 23 Sep 2021, at 8:47, Bill Cole wrote:
>
>> On 2021-09-23 at 10:31:58 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:31:58 +0200)
>> aisrael
>> is rumored to have said:
>
> How did you change the attribution line??
The above was achieved with this command:
defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmReplyWroteString '"On %F at %X UTC%z
(${date})\n${from.name} <${reply-to.address:${from.address}}>\nis rumored to
have said: "'
See Also:
https://manual.mailmate-app.com/hidden_preferences#composing
https://www.mail-archive.com/mailmate@lists.freron.com/msg14006.html
--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [MlMt] smart mailbox
On 2021-09-23 at 10:31:58 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:31:58 +0200) aisrael is rumored to have said: Regarding smart mailboxes, my understanding has always been that it is impossible to maintain them between 2 computers (running Mailmate). Does any workaround exist? It is theoretically possible to keep 2 MailMate instances' mailboxes in synch by synchronizing ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Mailboxes.plist between the 2 Macs. Unfortunately, to do this *safely* you must only do the sync when both instances are not running, because that's the only way you can be sure that the file is current and self-consistent and that MM will load a newly-synched file. It also contains definitions for all of the subscribed "source" mailboxes and all the rules associated with all mailboxes, so you can't easily only synch a subset like 'smart mailboxes.' This also implies the same collection of source accounts on both machines, so it is prudent to also sync the Sources.plist file whenever you sync Mailboxes.plist. So, in practice it is not something that is simply automated to get 'live' synchronization. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] What controls physical deletion of mails from MailMate?
On 2021-08-25 at 12:29:08 UTC-0400 (Wed, 25 Aug 2021 17:29:08 +0100) Raza Rizvi is rumored to have said: [details snipped] Anyone else got any clue what is going on! Check MmAutomaticExpungeBehavior Another possibility is that your IMAP server is doing some sort of auto-expunge. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 2021-08-20 at 10:38:14 UTC-0400 (Fri, 20 Aug 2021 14:38:14 +) Randy H. Tjahjono is rumored to have said: I'm running the Monterey beta, and when launching MailMate I will occasionally get this warning  Clicking on the *Learn More* link takes me to https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/ I'm not sure if this is an issue with Monterey, MailMate, Python, all three, or no issue at all. All 3. MM includes a couple of Python scripts (emate and html2text) that are written in Python and specify Python 2.7. Python 2 is an obsolete version of the Python language. The effort to get everyone using Python to convert to Python 3 was a 14-year project that did not go well. There have been no improvements, security patches, or bug tracking for Python 2.7 since 2019. There are still a lot of Python 2 scripts embedded in other programs like MM and in production as freestanding software like the GNU Mailman v2 instance running this mailing list. In the cases where 2->3 conversion is not trivial, it has often led developers to completely rewrite programs (e.g Mailman v3) from scratch. Operating systems have finally started to remove Python 2.x packages from their official distributions and Apple is one of the last to do so. They are apparently including a mechanism for warning users in the Monterey beta, which is a good thing. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Junk folder gets messages when Sieve unchecked
On 2021-07-26 at 11:00:45 UTC-0400 (Mon, 26 Jul 2021 08:00:45 -0700) Ralph Alvy is rumored to have said: I forgot to mention that the Junk folder is not on the Fastmail server. It is only a local folder created by MailMate. That seems to suggest the only way it got there is via MailMate itself. There's no such thing as a local *real* folder created by MailMate, so that must be a "Smart Folder" whose contents are defined by some logical definition, drawing messages from some set of source folders that exist on the IMAP server. MailMate does include by default a "Junk" Smart Folder that includes all messages from whatever server-side folders you've labeled (or MM has labeled by default) as having a "Mailbox Type" of "Junk" across all accounts. If there's not a top-level folder named "Junk" on the server side, I expect that MM would see one named "Spam" as the right folder to include in the "Junk" Smart Folder. So my *revised* theory is that your Spam folder on the Fastmail server is set in MM as the Junk-type folder for that account, that they in fact did put the message in Spam, and you moved it elsewhere before noticing that it had been in Spam (which is down in the Sources section of the mailbox list where you might not see it.) On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, at 7:13 AM, Ralph Alvy wrote: But Fastmail has its own folder for that. It's called Spam. And it did not put it in that folder. On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, at 7:51 PM, Bill Cole wrote: On 2021-07-25 at 20:15:31 UTC-0400 (Sun, 25 Jul 2021 17:15:31 -0700) Ralph Alvy is rumored to have said: I have no Inbox rules at all. Here are the Sieve relevant lines in the raw message: X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 3.0 X-Spam-known-sender: no X-Spam-sender-reputation: 500 (none) X-Spam-score: 7.2 X-Spam-hits: HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS 0.248, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST 0.001, HTML_MESSAGE 0.001, ME_HAS_VSSU 0.001, ME_SENDERREP_NEUTRAL 0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE -0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001, SPF_PASS -0.001, URIBL_DBL_ABUSE_SPAM 7, LANGUAGES en, BAYES_USED none, SA_VERSION 3.4.2 That's a SpamAssassin header, added by the server. Your mail provider put that message in Junk, not MailMate. The total score of 7.2 is significantly above the default SA threshold score for spam (5.0) but the 'X-Spam-hits' itemization shows that almost entirely due to one issue: the "URIBL_DBL_ABUSE_SPAM" hit scored at 7. That hit indicates that there was a link in the message body whose domain is listed in the Spamhaus DBL list: https://www.spamhaus.org/dbl. It is rare for the DBL to list domains that are not exclusively used in spam, but it does happen. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Junk folder gets messages when Sieve unchecked
On 2021-07-25 at 20:15:31 UTC-0400 (Sun, 25 Jul 2021 17:15:31 -0700) Ralph Alvy is rumored to have said: I have no Inbox rules at all. Here are the Sieve relevant lines in the raw message: X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 3.0 X-Spam-known-sender: no X-Spam-sender-reputation: 500 (none) X-Spam-score: 7.2 X-Spam-hits: HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS 0.248, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST 0.001, HTML_MESSAGE 0.001, ME_HAS_VSSU 0.001, ME_SENDERREP_NEUTRAL 0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE -0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001, SPF_PASS -0.001, URIBL_DBL_ABUSE_SPAM 7, LANGUAGES en, BAYES_USED none, SA_VERSION 3.4.2 That's a SpamAssassin header, added by the server. Your mail provider put that message in Junk, not MailMate. The total score of 7.2 is significantly above the default SA threshold score for spam (5.0) but the 'X-Spam-hits' itemization shows that almost entirely due to one issue: the "URIBL_DBL_ABUSE_SPAM" hit scored at 7. That hit indicates that there was a link in the message body whose domain is listed in the Spamhaus DBL list: https://www.spamhaus.org/dbl. It is rare for the DBL to list domains that are not exclusively used in spam, but it does happen. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Selecting default SMTP server
On 2021-07-25 at 01:31:23 UTC-0400 (Sun, 25 Jul 2021 05:31:23 +) Antonio Leding is rumored to have said: Correct - but I presumed he meant the SMTP server - if not, then I’m wondering if he might have been referring to how the SMTP server will be selected based on the From account… Without the experimental hidden preference that gives an independent SMTP menu, I have the pull-down shown in the attached images. It is automatically set based on context but if pulled down I can select any of the explicitly configured addresses for any account, or use the "Customize..." option to use any address I like, which MM will match to an account using their "Address Pattern" settings. Because each IMAP account has its own SMTP server setting, setting the From address determines the SMTP server. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Selecting default SMTP server
On 2021-07-24 at 23:58:59 UTC-0400 (Sat, 24 Jul 2021 20:58:59 -0700) Ralph Alvy is rumored to have said: Bill, I really don't understand what you mean here. When I send an email with Mailmate, it grabs the SMTP server from my old Tuffmail account, even if it's offline. But all my mail is coming to my Fastmail account. What would be wrong with putting my Fastmail SMTP server in my Tuffmail account setup? I never CHOOSE an act to send from. I just tell Mailmate to do a New Message. Do you not have a pull-down menu in your Composer windows that lets you pick the From address? Ralph On 24 Jul 2021, at 19:47, Bill Cole wrote: On 2021-07-24 at 21:15:55 UTC-0400 (Sat, 24 Jul 2021 18:15:55 -0700) Ralph Alvy is rumored to have said: If I have more than one Source Acct, how do I tell Mailmate with SMTP server to use for outgoing mail? Each account has its own exclusive SMTP Server settings. This is good because on the modern Internet, it is not feasible to send mail claiming to be from a particular address through any arbitrarily chosen mail server. It might work, but more likely your mail would be rejected or worse: dropped silently. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Selecting default SMTP server
On 2021-07-24 at 23:03:04 UTC-0400 (Sun, 25 Jul 2021 03:03:04 +) Antonio Leding is rumored to have said: “…not feasible to send mail claiming to be from a particular address through any arbitrarily chosen mail server…” Mostly true but there’s ways around such hindrances… https://www.wpoven.com/blog/free-smtp-servers-sending-emails/ All of those require you to set up accounts with the providers in question. For example, you cannot simply decide to route your mail through Google's mail servers without having a Google account and configuring it to allow you to send mail using that account with sender addresses that are not hosted at Google. So: not quite "arbitrarily chosen." I haven’t used any of my “assigned” SMTP servers since 2000. And since 2013, been using a combo of Amazon’s SES or my own Postfix…the latter is especially nice if one wants to use a non-standard port... Sure, but you are almost surely using mail submission (port 587 or 465, with mandatory TLS encryption and authentication and DKIM signatures added with "d=amazonses.com") and you have published a SPF record in DNS for leding.net which explicitly declares that your mail may legitimately be coming out of SES. Back before spam was a problem, it was possible to submit mail without authentication through nearly all SMTP servers, using whatever envelope sender and/or From address you felt like using with any server. This has evolved over time to the current situation where authentication (and hence server-specific account setup) is almost universally required along with TLS encryption. Some mail clients (including, at least in the past, Apple Mail) have configured submission (i.e. SMTP-like) servers independently of IMAP accounts and allowed users to arbitrarily select which outbound path to use with each message, regardless of which sender address is used. That is not generally safe today, but it was once entirely reasonable. - - - On 24 Jul 2021, at 19:47, Bill Cole wrote: On 2021-07-24 at 21:15:55 UTC-0400 (Sat, 24 Jul 2021 18:15:55 -0700) Ralph Alvy is rumored to have said: If I have more than one Source Acct, how do I tell Mailmate with SMTP server to use for outgoing mail? Each account has its own exclusive SMTP Server settings. This is good because on the modern Internet, it is not feasible to send mail claiming to be from a particular address through any arbitrarily chosen mail server. It might work, but more likely your mail would be rejected or worse: dropped silently. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Selecting default SMTP server
On 2021-07-24 at 21:15:55 UTC-0400 (Sat, 24 Jul 2021 18:15:55 -0700) Ralph Alvy is rumored to have said: If I have more than one Source Acct, how do I tell Mailmate with SMTP server to use for outgoing mail? Each account has its own exclusive SMTP Server settings. This is good because on the modern Internet, it is not feasible to send mail claiming to be from a particular address through any arbitrarily chosen mail server. It might work, but more likely your mail would be rejected or worse: dropped silently. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Deleting an account
On 2021-07-24 at 20:04:23 UTC-0400 (Sat, 24 Jul 2021 17:04:23 -0700) Ralph Alvy is rumored to have said: When I delete a source account in Mailmate, can I safely assume that all of the mail messages data have been purged from my hard drive under that account? Yes. You can confirm this by checking for the cache of the account in a subdirectory of ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages/IMAP/ which has the form '[%40mail.domain]@' It will be there before you delete the account and gone after. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Where is the list of fields? e.g. ${#source.path} (to customize Downloads Sub folder)
On 2021-07-21 at 12:41:39 UTC-0400 (Wed, 21 Jul 2021 16:41:39 +)
Christian Bailey via mailmate
is rumored to have said:
> Wow, another amazing power feature discovered today. I noticed in
> Settings-General that there is an option for Downloads to be saved in a Sub
> folder. The default path is: ${#source.#name}/${#source.path}
>
> I would like the path to be the domain of the sender’s email address. (Or if
> not possible, the entire email address.)
I think ${from.domain} will give you that. If not, try ${from}
> I searched everywhere and can’t find a list of the other field names for
> MailMate. Can you help?
I don't believe there can be a definitive list because MM can use any header
field that exists in any message. You can see all of those in
~/Library/ApplicationSupport/MailMate/Database.noindex/Headers, where each
indexed header has 3 files.
--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
___
mailmate mailing list
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https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Where is message flag color information kept?
On 2021-07-15 at 08:25:41 UTC-0400 (Thu, 15 Jul 2021 05:25:41 -0700) Greg Earle is rumored to have said: tl;dr: Where do MailMate/Apple Mail store the flag color info for each message? All on the server, in IMAP flags/keywords: \Flagged, $MailFlagBit0, $MailFlagBit1, and $MailFlagBit2 Standard IMAP flags in a Maildir mailbox are stored as a string of characters sorted in ASCII order (all capitals before lowercase) at the end of the filename, delimited by a comma. Both Courier and Dovecot use the capital letters DFRST for the \Draft, \Flagged, \Answered (i.e. Replied), \Seen, and \Deleted (i.e. Trashed) flags. The original Maildir spec also defines a Courier stores arbitrary additional keywords (non-standard flags) in a subdirectory named courierimapkeywords with a master list of keywords and a file for each message that has any keywords set. Dovecot maintains a dovecot-keywords file in each Maildir mapping any additional keywords to lowercase letters (perversely by numbering them in the file so that keyword '0' is indicated by 'a' in the filename tail.) If you use more than 26 unique keywords in a single mailbox in Dovecot, it falls back to storing the 27th and later ones in its binary index files in the Maildir. So to convert a Courier Maildir to a Dovecot Maildir while preserving flags, you would need to do more than rsync them. You would also need something that translates the contents of courierimapkeywords into additional characters at the end of message files and a dovecot-keywords file. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] which mailbox
On 2021-07-15 at 13:24:49 UTC-0400 (Thu, 15 Jul 2021 10:24:49 -0700) Randy Bush is rumored to have said: if i select the pseudo-mailbox of the account itself, i.e. not one of its mailboxes, i see an unread message. but none of the mailboxes has that message. how can i find out which mailbox has the message? it is marked as junk, but the mailbox with the type junk does not contain it. In addition to the method already offered: 1. Right-click the header of the message list pane, select the "Source Mailbox" column to be shown. 2. Use the "Go to Source" command in the Message menu (or by right-clicking the message in the message list.) -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Follow Up to Email Concerns
On 2021-07-08 at 11:53:26 UTC-0400 (Thu, 8 Jul 2021 11:53:26 -0400) Dan Pritts is rumored to have said: This is veering WAY off topic, but I’m curious that for only 2k users you find it effective to run your own email. That mail system is not a standalone service. It's a legacy service that isn't marketed at all, but we will continue to run it as long as we have customers (all small and medium-sized businesses) who don't want to leave. It used to be much larger but there has been a lot of customer migration to MS (and to Google but then also to MS.) Keeping it operational is not a huge amount of work and the customers who've stuck around have done so because they appreciate the level of service that the giant providers cannot offer. We also fill the mail admin role for some of those migrated customers, so I'm speaking of that capability difference from direct experience. Microsoft can't do what we do. Having done it myself for years I can’t imagine diving back in unless it was a full time thing. My primary employer does much more than email, so I have no difficulty staying busy. Of course, I should add that I also run my own personal mail system for myself and my family: 5 people who pay me not a penny for my work. That's all about being extremely picky about my own personal email and professionally needing a system with a live mail stream including substantial would-be spam (if spam is never accepted, was it ever really spam?) where I can test anti-spam tooling with minimal risk and no legal issues. On Jun 29, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Bill Cole wrote: I help manage email systems that see unceasing attempts to break into accounts, often using username+password combinations leaked by other systems. At any point in time, one smallish mail system I work with (~2k users) will have dozens of attack sources temporarily blocked at the network level by automated tools that can detect some careless authentication attacks. The simple fact that the Bad Guys find this sort of attack to be worth mounting is enough for me to know that it is worth mitigating, even if I were not aware of how exactly they use compromised accounts. Unfortunately, due to users ignoring vehement advice about password re-use, I have seen the impact that email compromise can have on both businesses and on individual lives. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] How to get the "URL" to a message?
On 2021-07-08 at 08:37:40 UTC-0400 (Thu, 08 Jul 2021 22:37:40 +1000) leo is rumored to have said: Hi there MailMate support the `message://` protocol to open a message from the outside of MailMate. Yes. An important element of this feature is that MM must already have a copy of the message in its local cache. But how do I get the full URL like `message://%3cWNTT.AvO4CwpyDv8Q~fovGnwC~yDAwakqVhb~yoshWDj~PP~o.1625618369.5i3ci...@webph04.int.wightpowtech.com%3e` to a given message? The part after the // is the content of the Message-ID header line of the message, with the enclosing '<>' URL-encoded (and any other characters that require it.) Note that technically that is not an 'URL' because it has no location information, hence it is an 'URI' because it merely identifies the message, rather than locating it. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Follow Up to Email Concerns
nal tools like DKIM and DMARC that put authentication into the application layer, embedding server signatures in headers and publishing domain policies in DNS. SMTP/submission sessions are typically single-transaction and last for seconds. IMAP sessions are mostly short, but they are almost always multi-transaction and mostly last on the order of a minute, with some being kept open idling for days. I’m surprised that the level of flexibility for gating access to email services seems so limited today. The crux for these matters is the directory service that validates end user credentials. It seems like we could implement some flexible and fairly sophisticated authentication protocols (between the directory and the IMAP/SMTP server) that would not require any direct tweaks to email clients. This might allow, for example, a user to authenticate once via 2FA, and then maintain IMAP access (using standard IMAP authentication) for some number of days before having to authenticate again. That's basically what OAuth2 does. It requires IMAP client support because the client needs to know when and how to make the user go through the out-of-band authentication procedure again. As with all new open security schemes, it takes time for everyone to reach interoperability. It’s been a while since I worked on the software for such services, so maybe there’s a lot I need to catch up on, but I basically feel that “ultra-hardened” email is a poor idea. It sucks. The alternatives are worse. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Follow Up to Email Concerns
On 2021-06-24 at 20:35:55 UTC-0400 (Thu, 24 Jun 2021 17:35:55 -0700) Harvey Leff is rumored to have said: I had written earlier that my email provider (the university from which I retired) stopped using IMAP, which would rule out use of MailMate. They also stopped having a "Forward all mail" option so I cannot move my mail to an IMAP-enabled site. I've complained, and the response is below. I switched (with great difficulty) to gmail, which of course uses IMAP and allows me to continue my love affair with MailMate. It seems that a prime alleged reason for their change is that IMAP does not support 2-Factor authentication. Do any of you experts have knowledge whether that claim is true and really limits security? IMAP has no direct support for any form of 2FA because the way IMAP is used typically involves multiple short-term authenticated sessions with no persistent shared state across them. If you did 2FA directly in IMAP with something like a code sent by SMS or generated by a TOTP device or app (e.g. Google Authenticator or Duo,) you'd be re-authenticating every few minutes, because IMAP does not have any equivalent to HTTP cookies. Some IMAP servers and clients (including MailMate) support an authentication protocol called OAuth2, which delegates the authentication to an external web-based protocol which generates renewable access tokens that a client like MailMate can use for authentication. OAuth2 token providers typically require 2FA. MailMate uses OAuth2 to access GMail accounts via IMAP. They are now implementing 2FA using a seemingly complicated system called Duo. Anybody know about that type of 2FA? Duo is a brand name for a proprietary 2FA system sold by Cisco Systems. It does not directly support OAuth2 and as a proprietary system there is no open standard for integrating it into IMAP (or POP or SMTP.) It does work with Office365, and Office365 supposedly can be an OAuth2 provider. I can't confirm that. The university's reply is below if you are interested and willing to read the claims. What I **DO** know is that the university replaced its standard IMAP/SMTP server with Microsoft's proprietary ActiveSync. Cisco and Microsoft share an interest in selling proprietary software that shuts out 3rd-party tools. Beware, this might be an indicator of the future… Yikes! I've heard that about Microsoft and email software before. I don't think there's really anything to worry about in a universal sense, just a substantial number of unwisely run organizations drinking vendor Kool-Aid. I can neither confirm or refute your university's assertions about what Microsoft's Office365 IMAP service can support. I can say what MM sees when it connects: 02:44:43 Trying to connect to outlook.office365.com on port 993 (CFNetwork) without STARTTLS (required) 02:44:43 Resolved hostname (outlook.office365.com). 02:44:43 Prepare secure connection... 02:44:43 Successful connection. 02:44:43 Initiating secure connection... 02:44:43 Returned (4)... 02:44:43 Protocol version: kTLSProtocol12 02:44:43 S: * OK The Microsoft Exchange IMAP4 service is ready. [QwBIADIAUABSADEANQBDAEEAMAAwADEAMwAuAG4AYQBtAHAAcgBkADEANQAuAHAAcgBvAGQALgBvAHUAdABsAG8AbwBrAC4AYwBvAG0A] 02:44:43 C: A0 CAPABILITY 02:44:43 S: * CAPABILITY IMAP4 IMAP4rev1 AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=XOAUTH2 SASL-IR UIDPLUS ID UNSELECT CHILDREN IDLE NAMESPACE LITERAL+ 02:44:43 S: A0 OK CAPABILITY completed. The "AUTH=XOAUTH2" bit there in the server's response to the IMAP CAPABILITY command indicates support for the standard mechanism by which IMAP can support OAuth2, potentially backed by 2FA of some flavor. Whether that works, I can't say. Whether it can be made to work with Duo as the specific 2FA solution, I cannot say. It is interesting that MailMate does not use OAuth2 with Microsoft or Yahoo accounts, even though both advertise support in their CAPABILITY replies. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Blacklist question
On 2021-06-21 at 13:56:04 UTC-0400 (Mon, 21 Jun 2021 11:56:04 -0600) Randall Meadows is rumored to have said: Do I gather correctly from the list archives that this is just a way to prevent an address from participating in address auto-completion? Yes. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Deleting messages once and for all?; 2FA
On 2021-06-21 at 08:37:13 UTC-0400 (Mon, 21 Jun 2021 08:37:13 -0400) Ken Pope is rumored to have said: Thanks for the info. When you click “empty junk,” does that permanently delete the messages in the junk folder from the server? I assume so, but because I retain all of my spam (professional interest...) I can't say for sure. It may just move the messages to the Trash/Deleted Items folder. On 20 Jun 2021, at 21:23, Bill Cole wrote: On 2021-06-20 at 20:31:58 UTC-0400 (Sun, 20 Jun 2021 17:31:58 -0700) Roger Bohn via mailmate is rumored to have said: Short version: Is there a secret preference or other mechanism to “Delete” a message so that it immediately gets deleted from the server? Option+Backspace -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Deleting messages once and for all?; 2FA
On 2021-06-20 at 20:31:58 UTC-0400 (Sun, 20 Jun 2021 17:31:58 -0700) Roger Bohn via mailmate is rumored to have said: Short version: Is there a secret preference or other mechanism to “Delete” a message so that it immediately gets deleted from the server? Option+Backspace -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Microsoft's AdaptiveCards
On 2021-06-17 at 15:12:49 UTC-0400 (Thu, 17 Jun 2021 12:12:49 -0700) Kee Hinckley is rumored to have said: So what I'm wondering is whether it would be possible to write a generic bit of Javascript that finds that script, interprets the body, and then replaces the HTML section with the rendered results. Or, maybe safer in the face of parsing errors, inserts it at the top and leaves the old HTML at the bottom. And then we could take that and insert it into MailMate's HTML template. MailMate, like every MUA not designed or written by lobotomized chimps on meth, does not ever execute JavaScript in mail or in response to magic data received in mail. Outlook for macOS is available from Microsoft. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] no longer able to send Yahoo! IMAP emails
On 2021-06-15 at 15:10:26 UTC-0400 (Tue, 15 Jun 2021 14:10:26 -0500) Edward Thome is rumored to have said: Yahoo has Pop accounts for free but the IMAP will only work temporarily on the same address before failing. You have to pay Yahoo for their IMAP accounts. This is untrue. I have never paid a dime top Yahoo but have 2 fully functional YAHOO IMAP accounts. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Conditional (per account/per sender/recipient) behavior - PGP and images
On 2021-05-30 at 01:53:46 UTC-0400 (Sun, 30 May 2021 07:53:46 +0200) Patrik Fältström via mailmate is rumored to have said: As MM is already doing some guessing/decision making on what are downloads and what are trackers, Where do you see "guessing" happening? The only distinctions I see MM making are very standardized and deterministic. Images included in messages are handled depending on their Content-Disposition headers (inline or attachment) and images referenced in HTML which are not included in messages are not loaded unless they pass the criteria in the Security->Image Blocking preferences pane. I do not know of any circumstances where it makes any more nuanced decision about the handling of non-text objects. 1x1 trackers are often detectable because in email, remote loading is widely disabled and it can ruin layout to not know the size of a missing image. However, people using images for tracking have also figured out that if they are using images as images, there's no reason that they need to have a special 1x1 tracking image. Every image in a HTML email can carry an identifying tag in its URL and hence be used as a tracker. If an image URL includes 5 arbitrary characters, it can be a tracker. Obviously it CAN be a tracker with a smaller target-ID, but ~30 bits is a scale adequate for almost all purposes. It's not really feasible for client software like MM to make an accurate complete judgment of whether a particular external reference is a tracker or not. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] How can I tell MM to NOT retrieve mail?
On 2021-05-27 at 04:37:18 UTC-0400 (Thu, 27 May 2021 10:37:18 +0200) Benny Kjær Nielsen is rumored to have said: On 26 May 2021, at 22:25, Jo wrote: My husband is a contractor, and I'm the one who does the QuickBooks stuff for him, which includes emailing invoices and estimates. I use his email for this. But I don't want to RECEIVE his email. That's a bit unusual, but read on below. I have his account set to synchronize manually, but it still seems to snag them. Is it because I occasionally click on my general 'inbox' folder? Yes, manually just means that MailMate won't fetch emails unless you somehow interact with the mailbox (selecting it, moving emails to it, etc.). How can I fix it such that it won't receive? You can take the INBOX of the account specifically offline using “Mailbox ▸ Take Offline”. Or you can take the entire account offline, but then your sent emails won't be uploaded to the “Sent Messages” mailbox of the account. But note that it can be a bit hard to see what's going on if some mailboxes are offline, e.g., if you move something from/to an offline mailbox within the account then MailMate cannot synchronize this move with the server, but it'll still look like it was moved in MailMate. Another solution is to unsubscribe from everything except the "Sent" mailbox. MM supports a client-side subscription list so you don't interfere with what the server says is subscribed. Edit IMAP Account->Edit Subscriptions... Check "Ignore server subscription state for private namespaces" and uncheck everything in the "Client" column that you don't ever want to see. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Memory usage
I'll jump in here, since Benny said he would be gone for the weekend. As always, only he is a definitive source of info... On 2021-05-14 at 15:53:52 UTC-0400 (Fri, 14 May 2021 21:53:52 +0200) Patrik Fältström via mailmate is rumored to have said: On 14 May 2021, at 20:05, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: Any strategies for using less memory? [too many virtual mailboxes] I might regret this if there turns out to be unintended side effects, but you could possibly delete some of the database index files such as those for the “received” header. Some are more important than others for the internal workings of MailMate while others are only needed if searched explicitly. This is a disconcerting suggestion. Like an aircraft designer suggesting that maybe the tail rudder and flaps are not really needed and can be ditched to save weight. Maybe... Aha, ok, I have not looked at the size of the database files. [...] -rw--- 1 paf staff 724M May 14 21:42 #quoted#lc.cache -rw--- 1 paf staff 724M May 14 21:42 #quoted.cache -rw--- 1 paf staff 2.1G May 14 21:42 #unquoted#lc.cache -rw--- 1 paf staff 2.1G May 14 21:42 #unquoted.cache -rw--- 1 paf staff 2.1G May 14 21:42 received.cache The received is indeed a large file. Is any search based on that? To the best of my knowledge, that file will only be needed if you try a search (or have a smart mailbox) that uses the Received header(s) of a message. The Received headers form an audit trail of the transit of a message from the author to final delivery, with an additional Received header added each time the message is handed off from one server (or process) to another. If you don't do mail forensics on a regular basis, you are likely to never miss its index files. Because virtually all messages except Sent or Drafts will have 2 Received headers, deleting the 3 files that make up the Received index (.cache, .plist, and .offsets) will only delete them temporarily, because any new message will cause the creation of new files for what MM considers a previously unknown header. Note that the "#quoted" and "#unquoted" files are for tokens in the quoted and unquoted text of messages, with the "#lc" versions being for the lower-cased versions of those tokens. That's why they are huge, and also why you really should not experiment with deleting them to save disk and/or RAM space. Despite Benny's suggestion, I would be extremely averse to removing any of the index files with '#' in them, as those are for logical constructs of MM, not actual headers. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Choosing fonts and sizes
On 2021-05-14 at 10:32:29 UTC-0400 (Fri, 14 May 2021 07:32:29 -0700) Dave C is rumored to have said: Here is what my mailboxes look like. I’ve exaggerated the width of the Date column by dragging its border very far left. Columns cannot be resized on the left, but must instead be reisized on the right. Your "Date Received" column is still too narrow for a more verbose date, and the column divider circled in the attached image must be dragged to the right to widen it.  -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?
On 2021-05-14 at 09:12:23 UTC-0400 (Fri, 14 May 2021 15:12:23 +0200) Benny Kjær Nielsen is rumored to have said: On 6 May 2021, at 0:24, Randall Gellens wrote: The mailboxes do show up in an LSUB command. But I just realized why MM wasn't seeing them. In a case of brain fade, I forgot that the hierarchy separator character in this IMAP server isn't slash and I wasn't noticing that in the LIST and LSUB output all the other hierarchical mailboxes had a different delimiter character. Manually TELNETting in and renaming them to use the correct hierarchy delimiter caused MM to see them. I'm not sure if it's a bug that MM ignores a mailbox whose name contains a slash on a server where slash isn't the hierarchy delimiter. Sounds like it could be a bug. Most servers use a slash as a hierarchy delimiter. I'm actually unsure what MailMate does in this case, but based on memory I think this could actually be hard to fix given how MailMate works internally. I'm a bit surprised it hasn't come up before. Incidentally, I have seen no problems from years of using MM with a server that does not use '/' as a hierarchy delimiter. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Custom sounds?
On 2021-05-14 at 13:32:48 UTC-0400 (Fri, 14 May 2021 11:32:48 -0600) Randall Meadows is rumored to have said: Is there a way to configure Mailmate to use custom sounds (instead of only the stock system sounds) in the Counters prefpane? (I really don't like the new sounds in Big Sur.) Hidden preference/defaults? Does dropping a AIFF sound file in ~Library/Sounds/ make it available on the Sound menu of the Counters preferences pane? That (which is how MacOS custom alert sounds have been added since forever) works on Mojave. If they've broken it in Big Sur, that would be yet another reason to delay "upgrading." -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Big Sur problem
On 2021-05-13 at 21:51:19 UTC-0400 (Thu, 13 May 2021 19:51:19 -0600) Randall Meadows is rumored to have said: I just received a new machine; downloaded a new copy of MailMate (5673), but copied two items: • ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate • ~/Library/Preferences/com.freron.MailMate.plist from my old computer (running Catalina) to this new one. I'm now getting the message: "Software Update Disabled MailMate is running on a read-only filesystem and can therefore not be updated." I don't believe this to be true (although this is my first experience with Big Sur so who knows) since the application itself lives in a folder in my home directory (~/Applications/, where I put *all* non-Apple applications, and I've not experienced any issues with those [yet]). Any suggestions? Fix the symlink at ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages to point to either: 1. ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages.noindex if you have not set a "Custom Location" for your Messages folder. 2. Wherever your Messages folder actually lives, after copying them there from the old system. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Memory usage
On 2021-05-11 at 07:17:25 UTC-0400 (Tue, 11 May 2021 13:17:25 +0200) Charlie Clark is rumored to have said: On 11 May 2021, at 9:10, Patrik Fältström via mailmate wrote: Question, have anyone of you like myself had issues with memory and looked into what might causing it? It's almost bound to be indexes. There will be indexes for the headers and presumably a full-text one as well. I would not be surprised with a 1:10 relation from index to total mail size, for the text parts (you'll see similar on a DB). MM's indices are much less efficient, due to their comprehensive coverage and the nature of email. 1:3.2 is the ratio on my primary machine. One reason for that is that MM indexes every email header it ever sees and many headers are very rare, but it is more significant that it maintains both case-preserving and case-squashed indices for body text and the most common headers, doubling the size of the largest index files. Not sure if you can do anything about that but Benny's probably the only person in a position to know. Benny has actually made substantial improvements in how MM manages memory over the past few years. It is much better about how much of the full index it loads at startup and while it does tend to load more over time, it doesn't behave as greedily as it used to, preventing OS memory compression and seemingly never using "purgeable" memory. If he has some user-accessible trick for reducing memory usage, he has kept it a secret despite multiple threads here on the issue. I suspect that the bottom-line summary is that high memory use is the unavoidable price of MailMate's ridiculously fast and flexible searching and smart mailbox functionality. There is no magical way around the fact that big data is big. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Migrating to Big Sur
On 2021-05-11 at 12:27:29 UTC-0400 (Tue, 11 May 2021 09:27:29 -0700) davecc is rumored to have said: MM now launches and doesn’t quit immediately. When I am asked for accounts passwords, immediately after entering one I get an alert: “MailMate failed to save a file to disk. (/Users/macmini//Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages/IMAP/[myemail address%40gmail@imap.gmail.con/State.plist_backup). Error: no such file or directory.” I copied the files (see below) from my previous daily-functioning MM install on my Sierra boot disk to the new Big Sur drive (the entire MM folder, not by opening the folder and selecting all files and dragging those). Any idea why I’m getting this error? Most likely because ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages is (usually?) a symbolic link which points to the absolute full pathname of your actual message store and that path does not exist on the new system. If you had a "Custom Location" set for the Messages folder (in Preferences->General) you may be able to fix the problem by switching it off, restarting MM, and switching it back on. If you didn't have that set, you can recreate the default symlink with: ln -sfn ~/Library/Application\ Support/MailMate/Messages.noindex ~/Library/Application\ Support/MailMate/Messages Thanks, Dave macOS 11.3.1 Big Sur MailMate 1.14 - - - To migrate MailMate from Sierra to Big Sur, I moved these folders to identical locations on the new hard boot drive by dragging and dropping in Finder: ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate (folder) ~/Library/Preferences/com.freron.MailMate.plist All copied. I then downloaded the latest daily MM beta and copied it to the Applications folder. After booting into Big Sur and launching MailMate, MM quit immediately and Terminal opened and spit out some errors errors. (Terminal purges previous output on Quit so those are gone for now. I’ll post what I see when I next boot BS and run MM.) Is my process correct? If you had a "Custom Location" set for the Messages folder on the old system, that copy missed all of your messages. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Benny - no posts since March
On 2021-05-06 at 17:30:16 UTC-0400 (Thu, 6 May 2021 21:30:16 +) Antonio Leding is rumored to have said: Hey everyone - has anyone else noticed that Benny hasn’t posted any messages since March? Fingers crossed they are OK… Benny has resolved multiple tickets in April and May. https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672-mailmate/tickets/bins/193302 -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Junk and Not Junk
On 2021-05-06 at 12:36:31 UTC-0400 (Thu, 06 May 2021 17:36:31 +0100) Martin S Taylor is rumored to have said: Well it *is* on my mail server, obviously. But isn't 'Junk' and 'Not Junk' just two sides of the same flag? Nope. Related but independent flags, generally. See https://www.iana.org/assignments/imap-jmap-keywords/notjunk/notjunk-template and https://www.iana.org/assignments/imap-jmap-keywords/junk/junk-template How can both be ticked at the same time? There can be multiple entities (server-side filters, client-side filters, & user) that can in principle set the IMAP $Junk and/or $NotJunk flags and anything that sets one of them SHOULD make sure the other is unset. Also of note: no one SHOULD send spam and no spam filter SHOULD ever misjudge the spamminess of a message... In other words: you probably have 2 different things capable of marking messages as Junk or NotJunk, and they disagreed. Whichever tool acted last arguably is a broken implementation because it should either treat the prior determination (by something/someone else) as dispositive and not set a conflicting flag OR consider itself authoritative (i.e. if you tell MM or another client to mark a message "Not Junk") and clear the conflicting flag OR consider the conflict to be a sign of uncertainty and clear both. The registered definitions of the flags (see above) states that mail with "$Junk AND $NotJunk" set should be treated as having neither flag set. Conceptually, Note that some IMAP-like mail systems (e.g. GMail) partially conflate flags and mailboxes, confusing the issue further. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?
On 2021-05-05 at 12:14:13 UTC-0400 (Wed, 05 May 2021 09:14:13 -0700) Randall Gellens is rumored to have said: The mailbox subscription pane stopped working at all, now it opens blank and just spins, never completing. That's a real problem. Subscriptions are a basic IMAP feature and it should never be slow to get a response to a LSUB command. Unfortunately, MM doesn't log that pane's activity. I now think the subscription list is immaterial, because checking the sources.plist file, I don't see any source that has a subscription list instead, each source has an unsubscribed list, which is empty for all sources except one. All sources except that one contain: clientUnsubscribedMailboxNames = ( ); I believe that is a red herring. That array seems to just be a way of maintaining exclusions from the server-side subscription list. Every time I take an account offline and back online, MM connects as many sessions as it is set to for that source (3 by default) and on one of them it issues a NAMESPACE command followed by a LSUB command for each namespace. That provides what it needs to build its active source list, which is stored NOT in Sources.plist, but in Mailboxes.plist. I see no wildcard LIST commands used for sources using Dovecot, GMail, or CGP IMAP servers. I suppose I could manually add the missing mailboxes to the mailboxes.plist file, but that seems fraught with potential errors. I don't see much risk, since all you would want to manually add for a new source mailbox is a dictionary at the right level with the 'previousUUID' and 'uuid' keys in MM's pseudo-URL format, being sure to fix the 'previousUUID' key of the relevant existing one if you want to insert above the end of the list. The only potential errors I see are typos or getting the 'previousUUID' linkage wrong. --Randall On 4 May 2021, at 10:08, Randall Gellens wrote: The mailboxes are there and show up in a standard IMAP LIST command. I just can't seem to get MM to do that. I haven't been able to see anything odd in the Activity Viewer, but I don't see MM ever issuing a LIST command. --Randall On 4 May 2021, at 7:16, Bill Cole wrote: On 2021-05-03 at 10:34:12 UTC-0400 (Mon, 03 May 2021 07:34:12 -0700) Randall Gellens is rumored to have said: On 2 May 2021, at 18:43, Bill Cole wrote: On 2 May 2021, at 20:01, Randall Gellens wrote: Thanks, I'd forgotten about subscriptions. But where do I set it? The Edit IMAP Account setting is only one pane, with no mention of subscriptions. I've hunted through the menus. You don't see an "Edit Subscriptions" button in the center section under the other IMAP Server settings? Ah, thank you, it's there but I missed it. However, the new mailboxes aren't in the list. That's where I would start examining the IMAP sessions in MM's Activity Viewer and/or running manual IMAP sessions with something like the OpenSSL s_client tool. Maybe also check the IMAP server to make sure that it is recognizing the manually-created mailboxes. E.g. for Dovecot & Courier (and maybe all Maildir++ implementations?) there must be a zero-length file named maildirfolder and cur/new/tmp subdirectories in every maildir. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Option to change "reply sentence"
On 2021-05-04 at 12:39:32 UTC-0400 (Tue, 04 May 2021 18:39:32 +0200) Stefan Dorscht is rumored to have said: Hi Bill, Thank you, you stubbed me in the right direction. As you can see, I tried to change the MmReplyWroteString. But, %A (= The full weekday name according to the current locale.) and %B (= The full month name according to the current locale.) is in english. I assume that is because MailMates curent locale is english? I would think so. You need to set the primary language in the "Languages and Regions" panel of the System Preferences and restart MailMate to get the right locale settings active. You can confirm the currently active locale environment variables by opening a new window in Terminal and entering "locale" which will give you something like this: LANG="en_US.UTF-8" LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MONETARY="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NUMERIC="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TIME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ALL= OR: LANG="de_CH.UTF-8" LC_COLLATE="de_CH.UTF-8" LC_CTYPE="de_CH.UTF-8" LC_MESSAGES="de_CH.UTF-8" LC_MONETARY="de_CH.UTF-8" LC_NUMERIC="de_CH.UTF-8" LC_TIME="de_CH.UTF-8" LC_ALL= If only want to use a particular locale with a single program like MailMate, you can start it in a Terminal session with an environment override: LC_ALL=de_CH.UTF-8 /Applications/MailMate.app/Contents/MacOS/MailMate -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?
On 2021-05-03 at 10:34:12 UTC-0400 (Mon, 03 May 2021 07:34:12 -0700) Randall Gellens is rumored to have said: On 2 May 2021, at 18:43, Bill Cole wrote: On 2 May 2021, at 20:01, Randall Gellens wrote: Thanks, I'd forgotten about subscriptions. But where do I set it? The Edit IMAP Account setting is only one pane, with no mention of subscriptions. I've hunted through the menus. You don't see an "Edit Subscriptions" button in the center section under the other IMAP Server settings? Ah, thank you, it's there but I missed it. However, the new mailboxes aren't in the list. That's where I would start examining the IMAP sessions in MM's Activity Viewer and/or running manual IMAP sessions with something like the OpenSSL s_client tool. Maybe also check the IMAP server to make sure that it is recognizing the manually-created mailboxes. E.g. for Dovecot & Courier (and maybe all Maildir++ implementations?) there must be a zero-length file named maildirfolder and cur/new/tmp subdirectories in every maildir. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Changing the default headers displayed?
On 2021-05-03 at 14:48:55 UTC-0400 (Mon, 03 May 2021 11:48:55 -0700) Greg Earle is rumored to have said: Is there a way, perhaps via "defaults write", to change the list of displayed headers? From a cursory glance it looks to me like the defaults are Resent-From: From: Subject: Date: To: I don't see an obvious way to change that. The file /Applications/MailMate.app/Contents/Resources/Layouts/headersFormatting.plist defines the long and short header display formats. You can override it by putting a modified version in ~/Library/ApplicationSupport/MailMate/Resources/Layouts/ The format is not very forgiving or well documented. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Option to change "reply sentence"
On 3 May 2021, at 2:55, Stefan Dorscht wrote:
Hi there,
as non english native speaker I`d like to change the „reply
sentence“:
„On 3 May 2021, at 8:00, John Appleseed wrote:“
to a sentence written in German:
„Am 3. Mai 2021 um 8:00 Uhr schrieb John Appleseed:“
Any hints how to change that?
See the "Hidden Preferences" page in the MailMate Help. It documents the
MmReplyWroteString setting with this example:
defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmReplyWroteString -string 'On %e %b
%Y, at %k:%M, ${from.name:${from.address}} wrote:'
The '%' tokens are standard date/time strings, documented on the man
page for strftime(3).
--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
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Re: [MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?
On 2 May 2021, at 20:01, Randall Gellens wrote: Thanks, I'd forgotten about subscriptions. But where do I set it? The Edit IMAP Account setting is only one pane, with no mention of subscriptions. I've hunted through the menus. You don't see an "Edit Subscriptions" button in the center section under the other IMAP Server settings? -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?
On 2 May 2021, at 15:44, Randall Gellens wrote: I'm using Mailmate version 1.13.2 (5673) on High Sierra 10.13.6. I tried to organize some messages by creating a new IMAP mailbox and moving messages from a virtual mailbox into it, but Mailmate kept reporting IMAP errors. So I quit Mailmate and used Telnet to manually create two mailboxes under a new mailbox and copy the messages it them. No matter what I try, I can't get Mailmate to see these new mailboxes. You need to edit the IMAP subscriptions list via the 'Mailbox->Edit IMAP Account...' command. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Horcrux email backup or something like it--good idea?
I'm not specifically familiar with Horcrux, but whether you need a distinct tool for email backup is dependent on your own specific circumstances. If you use TimeMachine on a Mac running MailMate, you have backups of all your email in the MailMate message cache: ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages/IMAP, which has subdirectories for each account with directory trees mimicking your server-side IMAP folder structure. If you need to restore email, you can restore whatever messages you need from there in TimeMachine to a different folder and then use MM's File->Import Messages... command to restore them and upload them to your IMAP server. If you have a very large number of messages and use TimeMachine over a network, backing up that cache with TimeMachine can be painfully slow and one may decide not to bother backing it up, since it is a replica of what is on your IMAP server. Because MM deems the IMAP server as always the authoritative source of truth about your email, so in the event of some catastrophic deletion event on the server, MM would dutifully delete the messages in its cache. So not having any backup is a bad idea. If TimeMachine is too slow for you or if you need a different retention pattern, maybe something like Horcrux will work better. Other people here have said good things about EagleFiler (https://c-command.com/eaglefiler/) but I also can't speak to that tool specifically. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Return-Path when sending message using an alias
On 30 Mar 2021, at 1:57, Tom Kerswill wrote: When I use mailmate to 'send as' one of these addresses, Gmail rejects it. When I look at the headers of that sent mail, they are different from messages sent by other mail clients or Gmail itself. The messages from mailmate do have the correct from address, but my actual Gmail address also appears to be there as a Return-Path header. That is NOT being done by MailMate. I have confirmed by testing just now that when MailMate sends mail from an address that is not the main one for an account, it uses the secondary address as the SMTP envelope sender, which is normally where the Return-Path header on delivered mail comes from. GMail is apparently using your authentication address instead, which is perverse. I am curious about what is actually happening with your mail, since if GMail is rejecting it outright I would expect you to have nothing to look at with a 'wrong' Return-Path. Are they accepting it initially and then generating a bounce message? it also is odd that other clients don't have this issue. Are you looking at messages with exactly the same alternative address but different clients? Is it possible to use mailmate with Gmail, to send as a different email address, similar to what I do with other mail clients? What are the steps to do this? I can't answer this directly, as I have no GMail account set up for sending from non-GMail addresses. I can say that unless MM is sending via GMail differently than it does for other SMTP servers (which would be a surprise) it is doing the best that it can and the problem is with GMail's quirks or an external issue like SPF. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Return-Path when sending message using an alias
On 30 Mar 2021, at 8:13, Glenn Parker wrote: I think the answer is yes, but MailMate can't ask Gmail to do it on MailMate's behalf. MailMate needs to do what Gmail does, which is to contact the "alternate" SMTP servers directly to transmit the mail from a different account. You will need to configure MailMate to have a full account for each sender address. There is also a possibility that this is a domain-level problem with an anti-spoofing tactic called 'SPF'. SPF is an acronym for 'Sender Permitted From' and is a means for domain owners to publish via DNS which IP addresses they know to be legitimate sources of mail with envelope senders in their domains (the "MAIL FROM" address, which gets put in the "Return-Path" header at final delivery.) GMail may be set up to override their internal acceptance of a sender in a domain they don't control that has a SPF record forbidding them from sending such email. This makes sense for them to do because there is a strong likelihood that any mail they send which conflicts with SPF will end up being rejected, delivered to a 'spam' folder, or simply dropped. I apologize for the readability of that paragraph... Put more simply: Even if GMail has verified an alternative sender to their own satisfaction, it is possible that they are enforcing the policy of a domain owner which would otherwise interfere with your deliverability. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Utterly baffled by Mailing Lists
On 26 Mar 2021, at 5:28, Paul Atlan wrote:
I’m trying to sort my mailing lists into something halfway
manageable and readable.
If I use the “out of the box” Mailing List mailbox, with the
following settings:
Sort for unique values of List-id > description
And name mailboxes as:
${list-id.description:${subject.blob:?${subject.blob:/capitalize}:${list-id.identifier.final-level}}}
I get a baffling array of names such as:
* 420a598457b46e0aa26a7a673mc list
* 15marches.substack.com
* 245.44880.info.alternatives-economiques.fr
* 245.44922.info.alternatives-economiques.fr
It seems some people use the list-id to name their lists, others an
identifier, others yet a url ….
And basically, whatever item I choose to sort by, or rename by, I’m
never going to get a proper list of names.
I’ve tried to rename some of the lists, which would work except …
some list managers seem to change list-id’s every few mails, so I
have mailing lists spread over many separate mailboxes …
Yes, this is a problem. It's not so bad for discussion lists like this
one that use mature list managers designed for discussion lists and
generally following both standards and traditions. (e.g. GNU MailMan,
EzMLM, majordomo, etc.) but it is a mess for the the horde of bespoke
tools used by "email marketing" firms, a few score different WordPress
plugins, and random bits of desktop software. You cannot count on any
organizational strategy using solely generalized principles doing the
whole job for the whole universe of mail from sources that are called
"mailing lists."
You need at least some special casing...
I’ve started building rules to identify and tag each and every
newsletter, but this is brittle (the ux being what it is, it’s
difficult to have rules with more than 4 or 5 conditions, so I’ve
spread out the newsletters over multiple rules), any new newsletter
needs to go through a process….
That's the best one can do. Blame senders.
I can’t imagine, with the number of power users using MailMate, that
there aren’t some interesting solutions around …
"Interesting" is a complicated term...
I use an embarrassing mix of server-side and MailMate tactics,
including:
0. I run my own mail server and have been doing so for decades. This has
allowed for a sort of genetic/organic development over years.
1. Unique email addresses for every sort of sign-up I do. The only time
I use a simple address for anything is for friends and family.
2. My spam filtering on the server is good enough that I don't get spam
delivered anywhere most weeks, so most of the stuff which would look
like "mailing list" traffic that would be hard to sort out is just not
arriving.
3. I am ashamed to say that I still use procmail to deliver mail from
various mailing lists their own IMAP mailboxes, based on a mix of target
address (see (1) above) and other attributes, including List-ID. I also
have a general catchall mailbox for all of my "tagged" addresses that
lack their own unique mailboxes.
4. In some cases, without any particular pattern other than the age of
my subscription, I have MM rules that watch that catchall of tagged
addresses for particular list traffic and move those messages to their
own IMAP mailboxes.
If there is any pattern to all of that which is relevant to other MM
users, it is that I use the filing of mail into distinct IMAP mailboxes
rather than relying entirely on MM Smart Mailboxes. Maybe I'm too much
of a cynic, but I don't believe that email is or will ever be as
conformant to formal specs and/or informal norms as it would need to be
in order to rely on sweeping logical generalities to sort how email is
presented.
--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
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Re: [MlMt] Keychain weirdness
On 27 Mar 2021, at 17:14, Andrew Buc wrote: On Mar 27, 2021, at 12:56 PM, Bill Cole wrote: You should make sure that it is there and that in the "Access Control" pane of the license key's window it allows access by MailMate. If it does not, you can add MailMate there manually or you could just delete that license key from the keychain and re-enter your license in MailMate. (MailMate->Registration->Add License…) I decided to go the latter route—delete the license key and re-enter my license in MM. I got this: [Keychain error -25293 dialog] There is something wrong with your login keychain, not specific to MailMate. Sometimes this can be fixed by explicitly locking and unlocking it in Keychain Access. It can also occur if you managed somehow to change your login password and the keychain password independently of each other, which you can fix by running the command-line 'passwd' utility. In one case where I had this sort of error, nothing I tried fixed it and I had to create a new login keychain and copy all the old items from the original to the new one. In older systems, Keychain Access had a "First Aid" function, but it has disappeared from the menus. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Keychain weirdness
On 27 Mar 2021, at 15:03, Andrew Buc wrote: Last night and this morning MM started refusing to sync with the IMAP server. I got various messages suggesting Keychain issues. I did some fooling around with the Keychain (don’t remember the exact steps), and MM started to sync with the server again. But I get the “keychain failure” dialog every time I open (cmd-O) an individual message, although I can open the message. I rebooted and re-downloaded MM (now om r 5673) earlier in this process. If I accidentally denied access for this application, how do I fix that? Am I right, MM wants the 16-character app p/w, not the p/w I use to log onto FastMail thru a web browser? Thank you. As the error message says, this is a problem with the MailMate *license* which is stored in your keychain. You can find it in Keychain Access by searching for "MailMate License" You should make sure that it is there and that in the "Access Control" pane of the license key's window it allows access by MailMate. If it does not, you can add MailMate there manually or you could just delete that license key from the keychain and re-enter your license in MailMate. (MailMate->Registration->Add License...) -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Restoring from backup
On 18 Mar 2021, at 18:41, Martin S Taylor wrote: I've corrupted something in my IMAP file structure on my local fileserver. What files do I need to restore from Time Machine to get it back to the state it was in this morning? The MailMate message store is in ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages/ and the index of those messages which allows MM to do fast searches is in ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Database.noindex/ so if you restore those, you should get everything you need. The risk of that is if you had MM open at backup time and open files were not flushed to disk, you could have inconsistencies between the messages and the index files or amongst the index files themselves. If you do a restore from TM (or any other backup) you should probably do a database rebuild as well, as described in the MailMate Help documentation. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] one pixel tracker images
On 18 Mar 2021, at 11:31, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: It can't tell if it's a 1x1 image until after it's downloaded, by which time the damage has been done. It can tell if the IMG tag includes width & height attributes, which it almost always will in HTML mail, as it is critical for doing partial rendering if the image isn't available. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Question on IMAP mailboxes and rules from a MailMate newbie
On 13 Mar 2021, at 13:43, Andrew Buc wrote: [...] The Friends and Lists mailboxes are directly under the “Andrew Buc (FastMail)” account. Is that where they should be? If that is where you want them, that is where they should be. Some older IMAP servers required mailboxes to all be under INBOX, but that was an artifact of server-side implementation details. As long as your IMAP server does not refuse to create top-level mailboxes, it's perfectly fine for you to do that. I’ve created a rule to move emails from the MailMate listserv to the MailMate folder, and it seems it’s working so far. I think I’m on the right track, but please confirm. Thank you! Seems fine to me. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Downloading only a portion of a mailbox?
On 8 Mar 2021, at 20:46, Jim Fenton wrote: I would like to use Mailmate to access the IETF mail archive that is made available via IMAP. That failed miserably for me when I tried it with MM, a few releases ago. MM isn't happy with a read-only server. Some of the mailing lists (folders) there are enormous. Is there a way to add this server and subscribe to folders with Mailmate only accessing the latest, say, 5000 messages per folder? No. People have asked about this repeatedly, but I do not recall Benny ever providing such a hidden feature, although I think he has engaged on the topic... I think Thunderbird is the only general-purpose mail client that tries to manage a partial cache intelligently. When last I checked, it did so poorly, but that was years ago. On a related topic, how much of the mail do I end up storing locally? All of it, in a file-per-message directory tree, plus an index that is about 30% as large as the message store itself. That's the price of searching multiple gigabytes and hundreds of thousands of message on arbitrary headers and content in a handful of seconds. Is it just the headers, plus message bodies for messages I read, or does it pull everything down for me to read potentially offline? In this situation, I’m happy to sacrifice the offline capability to save time and space. Storage is cheap. The time spent to download messages is a one-time cost, traded for the time you would otherwise spend looking for mail based on a limited subset of headers That means that MM isn't ideal for how everyone works with email. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Rather basic but I'm stumped
On 6 Mar 2021, at 16:29, Randy Bush wrote: Maybe we need to compare setups? i do not think MM has a `show conf > saved.conf` or whatever so we can do a diff. i hope i am wrong. Well, there is "defaults read com.freron.MailMate" but that has a huge amount of cruft and a fair bit of private-ish info. ~25k lines and over a megabytes of data. However, 'defaults read com.freron.MailMate |grep "^ *Mm"' reduces that to just the first lines of MM-specific attribute keys, which is a potentially safe-to-share and much smaller pile of info, in my case 137 lines for a total of 8.5KB -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] No notifications of new mail
On 26 Feb 2021, at 16:11, Randall Meadows wrote: Not seeing anything in MM prefs that might affect this. MM's infamously obscure Counters prefs pane is where you need to look. The 4 radio buttons at the corners of the icon select the 4 sets of attention-getting mechanism settings. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Dealing with MailMate disk usage
On 24 Feb 2021, at 11:05, Raza Rizvi wrote: Hi, One of the nice things about MailMate is the great search options and instant response, but that comes at the price of having a local copy of your email, and no doubt many of you have multiple mailboxes, as I do. So on my 250GB SSD root volume I have just about 50GB now used by MailMate and I am fast running out of disk space. So I thought since “/Users/xxx/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages” is an alias pointing at the mail store of “/Users/xxx/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages.noindex” this would not be a problem. I could just copy the mail store to a different external SSD and have a new alias to it (called Messages). Some hours later, having made the copy (and deleted the original because of the afore mentioned lack of space), I restarted MailMate. It bombed. Copy the files back to the “Users/xxx/Library/Application Support/MailMate folder, recreate the original alias, no problems and MailMate starts up. I believe that you need to make that change within MailMate rather than try to construct the linkage yourself. See Preferences->General->Messages Folder. Anyone have any suggestions why this did not work? That has to be answered by Benny to get the definitive truth. However, one possibility is that you created the "alias" in a manner that MM does not expect. MacOS supports a complex "alias" which is robust enough to survive moving both the alias and its target because it contains low-level file ID information. There is also a cross-platform (i.e. POSIX-defined) file type called a "symbolic link" or "symlink" which MacOS supports *and which the Finder displays just like a MacOS alias.* By definition, symlinks are less robust, simply being a pathname (absolute or relative) in a file labeled by the filesystem as a symlink. MailMate's ~Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages object is a symlink with an absolute pathname, NOT a MacOS alias, but the Finder cannot show you that difference and it also cannot create a symlink, only an alias. Because MailMate expects a symlink there, it probably uses the POSIX-standard readlink() function to get the real pathname to the real Messages directory, and because MM creates that symlink it probably does not handle the case of readlink() failing because it is called on a regular file (that MacOS knows is an alias) instead of on a symlink. BUT: that is just a theory. You could test it by creating a symlink to the physical location of the Messages directory (instead of an alias) in a Terminal session: ln -sf '/Volumes/OtherDisk/path/to/real/Messages' '/Users//Library/Application Support/MailMate/Messages' -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Messages marked as “read” in Version 1.14 (5757)
On 18 Feb 2021, at 9:34, Rob McBroom wrote: I’ll also add that I’m definitely hiding the Message View with ⌃⌥⌘H and not just dragging the edge to make it small (but possibly still enabled). Have you tried just switching to the "Two Panes" layout instead of the "Three Panes" layout? -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Any catastrophic issues with 2.0 Beta on Big Sur?
On 17 Feb 2021, at 11:26, Robert Wall wrote: I'm still having the "rules don't work" problem I posted about, and I'm considering just trying the 2.0 release. I really need rules to be functioning, and I don't want to switch mail clients. Is there any reason to *not* try 2.0 on Big Sur? See https://lists.freron.com/mailmate/2020-December/013478.html for Benny's statement on this. In summary: Despite the versioning, the "2.0 BETA" version is actually substantially behind the 1.x release series, particularly for BigSur, and will not be getting any more updates. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] have the headers stay on top when scrolling?
On 16 Feb 2021, at 14:56, Verdon Vaillancourt wrote: > My headers also scroll with the message like Max and Michael. > > Vanilla MM Version 1.14 (5757), up to date Big Sur OS Well, I am a bit different: 2.0BETA (6151) on Mojave. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] have the headers stay on top when scrolling?
On 16 Feb 2021, at 12:01, Robert Wall wrote: On 16 Feb 2021, at 10:53, Bill Cole wrote: On 16 Feb 2021, at 5:35, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote: Hi, Have I forgotten something or wasn't there a time when the headers (from/to/subject) *stayed* in place when scrolling ? ...any way to get that feature back or added ? :) If you have a custom layout for messages, that may be the root cause. If we're talking about the From/To/Subject scrolling off the top of the screen when a message is long, that's how my MailMate behaves too - and I don't think I've ever done a custom layout for messages. This is a pretty recent reinstall, and I haven't tweaked much. :) That's odd... Because this is what I see: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sn7m483tqlbc2p4/Screen%20Recording%202021-02-16%20at%2012.09.54%20PM.mov?dl=0 -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] have the headers stay on top when scrolling?
On 16 Feb 2021, at 5:35, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote: Hi, Have I forgotten something or wasn't there a time when the headers (from/to/subject) *stayed* in place when scrolling ? Yeah: Today :) That's how it works for me, at least. Just noticed that when reading a bunch of messages longer than screen I now have to scroll backup to see who the author is... that wasn't always the case was it ? The only way I can reproduce that behavior is to select multiple messages, triggering MM to display them all in a continuous scroll with embedded header blocks. ...any way to get that feature back or added ? :) If you have a custom layout for messages, that may be the root cause. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] 2nd IT Service Notice: Campus Email Protocols IMAP/SMTP/POP Disabled - 2/1
On 4 Feb 2021, at 16:12, Antonio Leding wrote: This may be the wrong forum for my question but I’m feeling adventurous…so here goes… Is there any technical reason, such as infosec, to remove IMAP\SMTP from one’s network? Generally? No. If you're already committed to an Exchange/Office365 environment, maybe. I am by no means an IMAP\SMTP guru but I have used them at various levels for the better part of 15+ years and my experience has been that when used properly, both protocols are perfectly secure. Nothing is ever perfectly secure. One of the ideas often used in security is the "attack surface," which is the whole collection of exposed services and devices which might be vulnerable and could be attacked. "Reducing the attack surface" is a mostly universal security goal. The Microsoft mail environment MUST include Exchange ActiveSync (EAS) to support mobile clients and Exchange Web Services (EWS) to support everything else that can use Exchange other than Windows Outlook. Those are a mandatory part of the attack surface. EAS and EWS are much more modern and narrowly-defined protocols than the open standards, and there are no beloved antique clients that can only do some quirky old version of EWS/EAS with reduced security, as there are for the open standard protocols. It is not mandatory to support IMAP and SMTP, as long as you are willing to disappoint users who are fond of their non-MS mail clients. IMAP and SMTP are *potentially* less secure than EAS/EWS simply because they are open standards with long histories and have been evolved in a model that worships backward compatibility. They are reducible parts of the attack surface. Eliminating them removes not only a piece of the server-side attack surface, it eliminates an unknowable universe of client-side issues originating from the entire menagerie of supporting mail clients. There is also the uglier issue of Microsoft having a history of insecure and/or simply dysfunctional SMTP and IMAP implementations. They are simply lousy at design and implementation of open-standard mail software. Running a server with optional protocols that the developer doesn't really want to exist and hasn't implemented well is a security risk. The MS implementations of open standards is a particularly soft part of the attack surface. The other side of this is that homogeneity (a.k.a. monoculture) is itself a risk concentrator. It isn't possible to quantitatively balance the risk of making the whole environment vulnerable to Microsoft's mistakes vs. the difficulty of supporting and monitoring the safety of a larger attack surface. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Is there a way to not store email locally?
On 2 Feb 2021, at 21:50, Brandon Schneider wrote: Hello all, While cleaning up my drive, I noticed my MailMate folder has kept every single message that is in my Archive folder in IMAP. Which is about 9 gigs. Is there an option to tell MailMate to *not* download any messages locally like this? Just keep them all in the IMAP server and look them up when needed? Nope. There's not a good way for a mail client to support the search & Smart Mailbox features of MailMate without keeping the whole mailstore locally. It's a reasonable choice to exclude /Users/dad/Library/ApplicationSupport/MailMate/Messages from backups, especially for backups like TimeMachine that scan whole directories if one item changes. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Syncing settings between machines?
On 2 Feb 2021, at 21:43, Nicholas Vahalik wrote: Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere. It has been discussed here before. Here are two of the times that it has come up: https://mailmate.freron.narkive.com/C29rlbuH/mlmt-sync-mailmate-settings https://mailmate.freron.narkive.com/14k120v0/mlmt-syncing-mailboxes#post4 There is also a long-standing ticket: https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/430 I’d really like to be able to sync up my Smart Mailbox configuration between machines. This is especially painful when the Smart Mailbox rules can take several minutes to build. Rules that take actions on messages are especially problematic to have on more than one machine. If both machines are on and watching the same IMAP account(s) with the same Smart Mailboxes using the same rules, you can get race conditions. I have a chronic problem of IMAP sessions going into an infinite loop which may be caused by this but which is quite hard to diagnose in depth because of the volume of logs produced. See https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672-mailmate/tickets/1491 for details. Is there a simple way to keep that configuration in sync between machines? Yes, although you may not like it and I don't recommend it. You must have the same IMAP accounts configured on both machines. 1. Quit MM on both machines 2. Copy all /Users/dad/Library/ApplicationSupport/MailMate/*.plist files from the machine whose config you want to keep to the other machine. 3. Repeat every time you want to switch machines. Simple, yes? A shell-script ssh/scp/rsync setup would be OK as well. The above steps should be fairly simple to turn into a shell script, given mutual trust between the 2 machines. If you do this, it is best to only ever have MM up on one of the machines. An alternative approach (which I use) is to do the above steps once, and then remove all rules from all mailboxes (including both "Smart" and "Source" mailboxes) on the machine that is more frequently offline. I did this to avoid races and so I can leave the desktop instance running all of the time, doing all of the automation (e.g. rules that move new messages to the appropriate mailbox as they arrive.) -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Skull emoji in the From header
On 30 Jan 2021, at 16:38, m...@rhp.tw wrote: Sometimes I will receive an email that have the skull emoji () in the **From** header. At first I thought this might be due to some autocorrect/auto-substitution that is enabled on my computer (like turning a smiley emoticon to an emoji), but that does not seem to be the case. I also looked at the raw message of the emails and didn't see anything unusual. Both these messages were downloaded from Gmail and when I look there the skull isn't present. How is this happening? As others have noted, this is an intentional *feature* of MailMate, indicating a '@' in a part of the From header commonly called the "display name" because many mail clients show only that part to users, hiding the actual email address. The reason to do this is that scammers have figured out that putting a trusted email address in the display name part of the From header is a great way to spoof identities without tripping up any of the common server-side strategies for identifying such fraud. This has lead to an epidemic of what is generally labeled "Business Email Compromise" in which the scammer poses as an executive requesting urgent assistance from a subordinate. Scammers have stolen billions of dollars this way. MailMate's approach to this is (as you noted) entirely in the presentation layer. The mail on the server (and in the client-side cache) retains its original data unchanged, so that tools like DKIM which authenticate messages including key headers are not broken by MailMate's presentation. Most other approaches to mitigate BEC are done by modifying one or both of the Subject or From headers, typically breaking any DKIM signature on the message as it is delivered and potentially confusing clients that group messages by those headers. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] GPG not found
On 14 Jan 2021, at 19:50, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: This worked but raises more questions. I verified that I could find gpg from the shell. In other words, it was in my $PATH. I then fired up MailMate from an iTerm2 window— and it still couldn't find gpg. However, the symlink in /usr/local/bin did work. This suggests that either MailMate or something about the application launch framework (I did 'open /Applications/MailMate.app') is resetting the path. If the latter, perhaps there needs to be a hidden preference for $PATH? The explanation is long and it's late, so here's a link to something I worked out some time back: https://lists.freron.com/mailmate/2015-April/004195.html As for the PATH environment variable, how that is set for launched applications in MacOS is also a long explanation, partly included/implied in that post. In a shell launched by Terminal or iTerm2, PATH is almost certainly tweaked in the shell initialization files (.profile and .shrc or their equivalents for whatever shell you use.) MacGPG adds its path to .profile, if I recall correctly. In any case, you don't get the same PATH in a GUI app launched via launchd (which 'open' does) as you get in an interactive login shell. On 14 Jan 2021, at 17:04, Dan Pritts wrote: Probably, whatever method you're using to set your path (shell startup files?) is not making it through to Mailmate. A couple minutes of searching doesn't show me how to set the environment on my actual login session. If I were in your shoes I'd symlink gpg into /usr/local/bin; Mailmate will probably find it there. On Jan 14, 2021, at 10:56 AM, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: When I receive signed messages, MailMate 5757 (on Big Sur) says "OpenPGP: Unable to locate the command (gpg) needed". However, it is there: $ which gpg /usr/local/MacGPG2/bin/gpg I installed the gpgtools (this is a fresh installation of it and MailMate on a new laptop, though I copied over the MailMate directories from the previous laptop), though of course without support for Mail.app. What am I missing? --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb <https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb> ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] A way to react on incoming messages?
On 5 Jan 2021, at 17:06, Alexandre Takacs wrote: On 3 Jan 2021, at 14:02, Robert M. Münch wrote: Such a plug-in could check for specific mails, and send a notification to some chat system, etc. With this, it would be possible to build-up pretty neat automation solutions which are triggered by email. I guess you can but is it really something that should be done in a mail client ? Or maybe you have an use case that I don’t imagine… Many email automation cases would be best implemented server-side, but not all can be or should be. One reason is simple practicality, in that the end user may have no access to email delivery mechanisms and no access post-delivery except via IMAP. Another is safety, because you may be using data that resides on the client machine and can't readily or safely be made available to a server-side process. Example: For many years, despite running my own mail server, I did some automation via Eudora for handling spam. Because the decision of whether a specific message was spam and some aspects of my reaction required skilled human oversight, my automation only did the "safe" parts (e.g. identifying targets for reporting and blocking) that could be done programmatically and left me with just triggers to pull for sending messages and manipulating my router and mail server access controls. A few times per month, I had to adjust or just toss out what my scripts prepped for me. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] A way to react on incoming messages?
On 3 Jan 2021, at 9:02, Robert M. Münch wrote: Hi, is it possible to react to incoming messages? Like a plug-in where all received messages are run through? Yes. One type of action that can be triggered by mailbox rules is "Run Command" which can run any command that exists in an add-on "Bundle" (listed in the Command menu, enabled via the Bundles pane in Preferences.) Typically those bundles are constructed to interface with other apps, but it should be possible to create one that hooks into anything you can run from a command line. Docs are at https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual/wiki/Bundles -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Group Smart folders
On 3 Dec 2020, at 17:16, N C wrote: Dear all, I would like to group a number of Smart Mailboxes under a single one for organisational purpose. Do you know any way to do so? The scenario is: I participate/follow in a large number of mailing lists across (at least) two different email addresses. In my current configuration, I created a smart mailboxes for each newsletter, but the number is quite large and I would like to group them somehow. Any ideas? It's too simple to be obvious... You can drag & drop any mailbox in the "Mailboxes" section of the mailbox list panel (i.e. NOT the Sources section) into any other mailbox there. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] How to forward without quoting?
On 26 Nov 2020, at 22:16, leo wrote: Hi there I sometimes want to forward an (HTML) email without quoting - how do I do this? Have you tried just using the "Message->Edit as New Message" command? That does create a new message with the same plaintext content as the current message. It will also have the problem of not preserving HTML if you try to do anything to it. which is unavoidable. There's no safe way for a mail client to modify an HTML message it did not create. Redirect would work, IF your mail provider allowed you to send mail with any arbitrary "From" header, but the error message you posted indicates that they do not. They may have some way for you to add addresses that you can use in From headers by verifying that they are yours, but if you want to redirect mail from arbitrary senders, that's probably not possible with that mail provider. It also is likely to have delivery problems beyond your own provider if the original sender is in an unrelated domain. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Email more than 2 days old being permanently deleted
On 27 Nov 2020, at 11:11, Charlie Clark wrote: This sounds suspiciously like Antonio's issue of e-mail being removed from trash after 7 days and, hence, a server setting. Probably because people never get around to emptying the trash. I help manage mid-sized (SMB/SOHO outsourcing) mail systems and can attest to the fact that some people seem to never empty their trash mailboxes. For support purposes, if I could, I would would eagerly auto-expunge all of our users' trash mailboxes on an aggressive schedule (7 days seems good) if users would modify their behavior and thinking to treat their trash mailboxes (and messages marked as "Deleted" in regular mailboxes) as a short-term safeguard against accidental deletion rather than as a permanent archive of mail that isn't worth their effort to categorize. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Finding rules
On 26 Nov 2020, at 11:19, Charlie Clark wrote: On 26 Nov 2020, at 15:58, m...@rhp.tw wrote: I have never found an explanation as to why Qualcomm purchased Eudora. It made little business sense as Qualcomm has always been a semiconductor They got it because the developer (Steve Dorner?) of it started working for them. In America, and possibly elsewhere, what employees work on, even in their spare time, is often considered company property… It's more than that. Qualcomm hired Steve and bought Eudora from UIUC because they used it internally and wanted to assure its continued development in ways they desired. During the 90's they seemed to actually view Eudora as a real product and even a brand, at various points running an email service (EudoraMail) and owning a proprietary mail server package (the erstwhile MailShare and Apple Internet Mail Server) written by Glenn Anderson, who continued to maintain EIMS 2001-2009 as his own product. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Finding rules
On 25 Nov 2020, at 13:14, Charlie Clark wrote: Yes, I worked that out. Looks like it's a form of JSON, so I can probably write something to work with it. It is the pre-XML ASCII text format NeXT Property List format. You can use the 'plutil' tool which is included in all modern MacOS versions to convert that to XML or proper JSON or even Apple's binary plist format. You can also pipe the XML output of plutil to the older 'pl' tool which will convert it back to the old ASCII text format. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Getting started with MailMate
On 22 Nov 2020, at 15:46, Andrew Buc wrote: Thanks for your response. The fact that we both use Fastmail puts us on the same page. On Nov 22, 2020, at 11:05 AM, Martin S Taylor wrote: The snag you're likely to hit is that MailMate doesn't support mailboxes held 'On My Mac' as Apple Mail names it. It can only access mailboxes held on an IMAP server such as FastMail. The FastMail server will have a fair amount of space set aside for you: the exact amount depends on which scheme you pay for. However, if you have masses of old mail archived 'On My Mac', you should check that there's room on the FastMail server. I think I’ll need to upgrade from my current 2GB plan to the 30GB plan. I noodled around with MailMate a few years ago, and ISTR that there was an option to import my entire Apple Mail database into MailMate, although I didn’t actually do it. I take it that that doesn’t address the issue you mention above, even if the database can be imported? Right. The imported mail has to be stored in an IMAP account. Some people set up a local IMAP server for this (Dovecot being the simplest choice of software.) It is also possible to import mail into a fake never-online account, as long as you're willing to accept that it will be an essentially static archive. Because MM considers the online (server) version of an account's mail to be the authoritative truth, any changes you try to make to the contents of mail imported into a fake account will actually be pending until you (never) connect to the (non-existent) server. What I did is a variation on the import into a fake account. I used Emailchemy (https://weirdkid.com/emailchemy/) to bring ~20 years worth of Eudora mail in to MM by using its limited IMAP server functionality. That's less justifiable with Apple Mail (which is less arcane about its stored mail than Eudora was) so it is probably not worth the $30 license cost. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Adding rule based on spam headers
On 11 Nov 2020, at 9:45, Charlie Clark wrote: Hiya, much as I like MailMate, I find its support for spam detection sub-par. I understand that there is a preference for SpamSieve but many mail servers already have spam filters like Spam Assassin, so why not make more us of them? Even Apple Mail does a good job with them. As a result, I'm currently running Apple Mail on accounts where I'm seeing a lot of spam and let it the filtering. I checked the rules that are used and they don't look bad: * sender in contacts I don't believe that is possible. * sender in exisiting recipients " * to contains full name I haven't tried it, but I would expect this to work: * trust spam headers Has anyone figured out conditions for rules like this? See above. I've got headers like this: X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST, HTML_MESSAGE,NORDNS_LOW_CONTRAST,RDNS_NONE,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS, URIBL_ABUSE_SURBL,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Job 0: get your mail provider to fix that URIBL_BLOCKED problem. It indicates that they are trying to use a free-for-most DNS-based URI blocking list (uribl.com) in a way that makes them seem like a large commercial email provider, for whom usage is NOT free. It may be as simple as a DNS config change on the machine running SA, if they are currently using a shared forwarder and don't actually have large volume. MM SHOULD parse that X-Spam-Status and put it in the "Spam Score" pseudo-header for display and in X-Spam-Status->Score for conditions. Unfortunately, it does not recognize the value as a number for conditions, so you don't get 'greater than' and 'less than' operators. Where I'd like to be able to set the threshold a bit lower but I can't think of an easy way of doing this at the moment with the score not being available as a separate header. What are you all doing? Filtering on the server side and seeing so little spam that it's not worth dealing with in MM. (Yes, I know that's not a broadly useful strategy.) -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] "Tags" column
On 10 Nov 2020, at 11:34, Martin S Taylor wrote: On 10 Nov 2020, at 16:26, Eric Sharakan wrote: When I look at the column headed Tags() it's always empty. Hi, you add your own emojis via the Tags preferences pane of MailMate. Thanks, but when I look at the column headed Tags() it's still always empty, even when I attach a tag (either a word or an emoji) to a message. MM tags can have a symbol associated with them as a distinct field. See the attached screen grab, showing that the tag '$foo' has been given the symbol '' -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] include contents of one smart mailbox in another
On 10 Nov 2020, at 15:43, Shoshanna Green wrote: Setting B as a source mailbox for A would mean that A's conditions would be applied to messages in B and the messages that meet them would be included in A, but messages in B that do not meet them wouldn't be. What I want is to define A with a nonexclusive OR: A's conditions need to be along the lines of ANY OF: - is contained in B - [set of other conditions] Is that clearer? Create mailbox C with all of those other conditions. Create mailbox A which includes all messages in B and all in C, i.e. with B and C as sources and no conditions. To minimize clutter in the mailbox list, I keep a folder of mailboxes that I almost never use directly but which I use either very occasionally or in that sort of layered construct. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate and Time Machine
On 21 Oct 2020, at 13:56, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: I've had to disable Time Machine backups of the directories containing my IMAP messages—I was getting at most two backups per day because each one took so long. Some of it, I'm sure, is because I have about a million messages, but I don't think that that's the whole story—my backup laptop, which has most of those messages but does not normally run MailMate except periodically when I want it to catch up, can handle Time Machine reasonably well. Time Machine creates de-duped incremental filesystem images by hard-linking unchanged directories and within directories, unchanged files. It saves time by using the OS facility that tracks directory changes so that it does not scan at all in directories that have not changed. So the time it takes to do a backup is a function of the number of changed or moved files (data copy time) and of the number of files in changed directories (directory scan time.) With HFS it may also make things slightly worse if unchanged files in changed directories have a lot of links already (i.e. are old) The issue, then, would seem to be something about messages being added to or deleted from some mail folders, possibly propagating up the directory tree. Is that right? Yes. A single file change or move involving a directory will cause TM to scan the directory and stat every file in the directory to see if it has the same modification time, size, and extended attributes as the most recently backed up version. Is there some organizational pattern I could use that would cut the time? Is it, for example, that I have too many messages in certain folders? MM stores messages in a tree that models the IMAP tree, with a file per message. Ideally, you want to minimize the number of messages in IMAP folders whose contents change frequently. "Smart" folders don't matter. Another way of looking at that is that you want to have the bulk of your messages in archives that never change. I do this by periodically cleaning out active IMAP folders, moving messages that I want to keep into archive folders that are organized by date. I don't actually do this for the sake of TM on machines where I run MM, because on those machines I simply exclude the MM Messages and Database directories from TM backups; if I need to restore from backup, I'll do it by re-fetching everything. I do it because my IMAP server is an old Mac as well and it uses TM to back up the Maildir structures of my mailstore. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Modifying the list of recipients - possible?
On 13 Oct 2020, at 9:11, Raza Rizvi wrote: On 13 Oct 2020, at 13:28, Bill Cole wrote: On 13 Oct 2020, at 6:38, Raza Rizvi wrote: … When addressing an email, the composer preference may select auto-completion recipients based on mails you have previously sent, across all or a subset of mailboxes. This means a possible recipient might have more than one email address shown. How can you modify this list of returned values to weed out incorrect or old or unwanted addresses? Right-click the unwanted address in the To (or Cc) header field and select one of the options to add to the blacklist. You can blacklist just the address or the display name and address combination. aha right, on a received message. Neat solution, thanks for the suggestion. It also works when composing a message. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Modifying the list of recipients - possible?
On 13 Oct 2020, at 6:38, Raza Rizvi wrote: Hi All, (Day 17 of my trial, and I am still very happy) When addressing an email, the composer preference may select auto-completion recipients based on mails you have previously sent, across all or a subset of mailboxes. This means a possible recipient might have more than one email address shown. How can you modify this list of returned values to weed out incorrect or old or unwanted addresses? Right-click the unwanted address in the To (or Cc) header field and select one of the options to add to the blacklist. You can blacklist just the address or the display name and address combination. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Office 365
On 10 Oct 2020, at 15:22, Olivier Bedouelle wrote: Hi, Impossible for me to create a password for Mailmate in Office 365. Can someone help me? cordialy The procedure I gave you worked for me, so I'm entirely out of ideas. Have you tried asking Microsoft? -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Office 365
On 9 Oct 2020, at 11:42, Olivier Bedouelle wrote: Hello, I have a new office 365 email account and I can't set up Mailmate correctly. I receive mail but I can't send any. Can you help me? Sincerely 1. Use the settings at https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/pop-imap-and-smtp-settings-for-outlook-com-d088b986-291d-42b8-9564-9c414e2aa040 2. Use Microsoft's security facility to create an application-specific password. 3. Attempt to send a message in MM using the Microsoft account. It will fail with a verbose and obscure error message. 4. Check your Inbox. There should be a new message with the subject "Please sign in to your Outlook.com account" (or maybe the rough equivalent in French?) with a link to a verification page. Follow the instructions. 5. Try again to send the message from (3) above. It should now go through. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Posting to this list
On 8 Oct 2020, at 9:32, Glenn Parker wrote: And yet, AFAIK MailMate has no support for bottom-posting replies in the composer window, which is frustrating. And yet, it does. It is not in the obvious place, which would be the Composer pane. In the Signatures pane, there's a "Caret placement" menu and "Default signature placement" radio buttons. If the latter is set to "Bottom" and the former is set to "Above Signature," then in a reply you get quoted text above the insertion point and the signature (if any) below that. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Adding rules to top-level Inbox; rule selection condition for locations
On 5 Oct 2020, at 21:00, Antonio Leding wrote: Hello MailMate community, Two quick questions: * Does anyone know if there are issues with attaching rules to Inbox smart mailbox - The one that is essentially a collection of all of the discrete account inboxes? * My main concerns here are performance and\or any possible corruption. I know of no such issues and don't expect that there would be any unless you had conflicting rules assigned to an individual Inbox. * Is there a rule selection condition that will specify the location of a given message - For example the inbox of the user1_at_example.com account? Look at the "Source" field. It specifies the IMAP mailbox by account and path. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] smart folder - emails not from real people
On 4 Oct 2020, at 11:28, Evan Silberman wrote: I want to clean up my email account and find emails that are only from lists and groups and NOT from people. Is there an easy way to do this? I vaguely recall that one of the example smart folders that exists unless and until you delete it is "All Mailing Lists" but if you do not have that it is easy enough to recreate it. Just use a condition of the "List-Id" header existing. Note that this catches all mail coming through standards-compliant mailing lists, such as THIS mailing list. I'm pretty sure both you and I and everyone else posting here are all people, and if you do not want to include discussion lists like this one where people write messages, you'll have a much more complicated problem. The first step in that would be defining what exactly you mean by "NOT from people." -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] nuclear option
On 2 Oct 2020, at 8:24, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 30 Sep 2020, at 22:49, Randy Bush wrote: On 30 Sep 2020 20:57, Randy Bush wrote: can you think of a simple way a user could have inadvertantly wiped all mail in their account's mailboxen aside from the imap entry 0? IMAP entry 0? Some IMAP servers (UW-IMAP at least, maybe others...) store mailbox metadata in a pseudo-message with the subject "DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA" which is not normally visible via IMAP *unless* you're using the mailbox directly on the mailserver (e.g. with a MUA that reads mbox or maildir structures directly) or via POP or have migrated a mailstore from UW-IMAP to another IMAP server at the filesystem level rather than over IMAP. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Keybindings for non-US keyboards
On 30 Sep 2020, at 11:39, Robert Brenstein wrote: He meant that to produce the left square bracket on the German keyboard, he needs to press alt-5 (option-5 if you will). So how do you produce a shortcut that itself requests the alt key to be hold. My point is that 'cmd' and 'alt' are usually not the same key. Maybe a picture of the left-side modifier keys (other than shift) of my old MacBook explains what I mean better:  Note that 'option' is also labeled 'alt' and 'command' is marked '⌘' (an ancient artifact descended from the "Open Apple" key on Apple ][ keyboards) and on newer Mac US-English keyboards, option is marked '⌥' to match the symbols used in menus. The indentation menu commands are ⌘-[ and ⌘-] so on a keyboard with a ⌘ (command/cmd) key and an alt (option/⌥) key where you need alt-5 to get [, 'decrease indentation' would be ⌘-alt-5 Some keyboards have "Meta" or "Windows" keys that might get mapped to ⌘. Mapping BOTH ⌘ and ⌥ to a single 'alt' key would be intrinsically broken, because they have always served distinct purposes. Will the alt key be recognized doubly, once to produce the bracket and then to produce the shortcut? I gather he has to remap these shortcuts to completely other keys. It is essential that you have distinct mappings for the distinct modifier keys. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] can send mail but new mail doesn't download into inbox
On 30 Sep 2020, at 14:40, Ken Pope wrote: I’m using MM 1.13.2 (5673) on Catalina 10.15.7. Everything perfect until a few hours ago when: (a) although I can send mail, new mail doesn’t appear in my inbox; (b) my account (k...@kenpope.com) under “sources” turned red, and all the boxes under it went from black to light gray; & (c) although new mail doesn’t appear in the inbox, it *does* appear under “sources” if I highlight the red source account. Does the account and its folders all have "(offline)" appended to their names in the Sources list? Have you tried selecting the account and using 'Mailbox->Take "[accountname]" Online'? Although MM is my main client, I have 4 others (Mail, GyazMail, Airmail, & Postbox) that I use solely to download mail and provide backups—the k...@kenpope.com continues to download and appear in their inboxes. Any idea about what’s gone wrong and how I can fix it? One possibility with so many clients accessing the same account is that you're hitting a server-side limit on simultaneous connections, either from the same IP or to the same account. MM usually pops up an alert when that happens, especially with per-account limits (which look like authentication errors) but when the connection is simply ignored at the network level there may be no useful reason to do anything beyond offlining the account and turning it red. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Keybindings for non-US keyboards
On 30 Sep 2020, at 7:58, Charlie Clark wrote: Increase indentation cmd + [ becomes be alt + cmd + 6 on my keyboard And I've no idea how to get alt + cmd + [ because I'd need alt twice! Typically "Alt" (common on Windows keyboards) is mapped to the Mac "Option" key rather than "Command" (a.k.a. "cloverleaf".) Does your keyboard have a 3rd modifier key of some sort, i.e. Control, Alt, and Something Else? I know that Windows keyboards usually have a Windows key, which is often mapped to Mac's Command. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] green notification on dock icon
On 20 Sep 2020, at 19:38, Evan Silberman wrote: All of a sudden, my mail mate icon has a green notification w/ the number 1. Is this new, and if so, what does it stand for? Not new. See the "Counters" preferences pane. Each of the radio buttons there configures one of the 4 counters that can show up at the different corners of the Dock icon or in the menu bar. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Triggers for Smart Folder Rules
On 9 Sep 2020, at 14:34, Carlos Moffat wrote: Hi, I’m trying to understand better how to use Smart Folders. I have a Smart Folder that shows emails with the Tag (also Gmail/IMAP label) “ToReply” (this allows me to mark emails to answer on the go by applying the label from my phone, or with a shortcut in MailMate) contained anywhere on my account (so I can mark an email ToReply and move it out of the Inbox if needed). I would like the email to be removed from the Smart Folder when I reply to it. My naive understanding of this is that I could set up a rule that would remove the tag if the message is “replied”, but this of course doesn’t work unless I manually apply the rules to the folder, which defeats the purpose of the automation, so I have to manually remove the tag after I reply to the email. Any ideas on how to make a workflow like the above work? Make the Replied tag not being set a condition of inclusion in the Smart Folder -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not For Hire (currently) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Attachments column keeps disappearing
On 4 Sep 2020, at 22:01, Randall Gellens wrote: I've noticed that the 'Attachments' column vanishes when I switch to a different mailbox and then back. Mailmate 1.13.2 (5673). Is this a bug or a setting I've gotten wrong? I use View->Columns->Attachments to turn it on, but it gets turned off when I switch mailboxes. This sounds like yet another manifestation of the long-lived bug 2045: https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672-mailmate/tickets/2045 -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not For Hire (currently) ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
